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BS: 2021 vaccination thread

Steve Shaw 23 Feb 21 - 05:05 AM
Nigel Parsons 23 Feb 21 - 05:38 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Feb 21 - 06:09 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Feb 21 - 07:03 AM
Nigel Parsons 23 Feb 21 - 08:35 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Feb 21 - 08:38 AM
Jack Campin 23 Feb 21 - 08:58 AM
Thompson 23 Feb 21 - 06:11 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Feb 21 - 06:12 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Feb 21 - 06:31 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Feb 21 - 06:32 PM
Stilly River Sage 24 Feb 21 - 10:24 AM
keberoxu 24 Feb 21 - 09:16 PM
Helen 24 Feb 21 - 09:45 PM
Jos 25 Feb 21 - 04:06 AM
Thompson 25 Feb 21 - 12:30 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 25 Feb 21 - 01:46 PM
Bonzo3legs 26 Feb 21 - 05:06 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Feb 21 - 06:38 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Feb 21 - 06:45 AM
Bonzo3legs 26 Feb 21 - 08:56 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Feb 21 - 09:50 AM
robomatic 26 Feb 21 - 09:56 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Feb 21 - 10:08 AM
keberoxu 26 Feb 21 - 12:45 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Feb 21 - 01:32 PM
Tattie Bogle 27 Feb 21 - 03:43 PM
Joe Offer 28 Feb 21 - 01:05 AM
BobL 28 Feb 21 - 03:01 AM
Allan Conn 28 Feb 21 - 03:28 AM
Manitas_at_home 28 Feb 21 - 04:25 AM
Bonzo3legs 28 Feb 21 - 04:50 AM
Steve Shaw 28 Feb 21 - 06:26 AM
Tattie Bogle 28 Feb 21 - 01:37 PM
Steve Shaw 28 Feb 21 - 02:30 PM
Steve Shaw 28 Feb 21 - 02:34 PM
Steve Shaw 28 Feb 21 - 02:49 PM
Mrrzy 28 Feb 21 - 05:49 PM
Steve Shaw 28 Feb 21 - 06:47 PM
Steve Shaw 28 Feb 21 - 06:56 PM
robomatic 28 Feb 21 - 10:10 PM
BobL 01 Mar 21 - 03:17 AM
Mrrzy 01 Mar 21 - 09:06 AM
Jeri 01 Mar 21 - 09:44 AM
Jeri 01 Mar 21 - 09:49 AM
Jeri 01 Mar 21 - 10:46 AM
Nigel Parsons 01 Mar 21 - 10:58 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Mar 21 - 11:58 AM
Stilly River Sage 01 Mar 21 - 12:18 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Mar 21 - 12:25 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Feb 21 - 05:05 AM

Got my invite for the first jab five minutes ago, Charlie! Can't act on it until I know whether we've got to keep self-isolating, so I await the test result with baited breath...


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Feb 21 - 05:38 AM

Previously a positive test result meant you couldn't have the jab for 28 days. I have been told (uncorroborated) that this time lag has now been reduced to 10 days.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Feb 21 - 06:09 AM

Well I'm convinced the result will be negative. We ordered the test as a kneejerk when I got the fever, which then turned out to be the cellulitis. As the cheerful doc told me, you can get both, you know! Anyway, I'll either leave it until I get the result or make a speculative booking today...


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Feb 21 - 07:03 AM

Well I've booked for Sunday afternoon. As it's in Holsworthy, ten miles away, and with Holsworthy having a Waitrose, I might take the opportunity to nip in and buy a few bottles of the superb Stemmari Nero d'Avola, currently on offer. Otherwise, under lockdown, I should think that driving ten miles to a supermarket when there are several in Bude would be somewhat stretching the bounds of morality. I'll not be gainsaid on this. I wish to support the Sicilian economy (and I've been to Avola...)


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Feb 21 - 08:35 AM

Nice to see that you can still get your European wines, despite earlier fears ;)


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Feb 21 - 08:38 AM

Mutual interest rules OK...


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Feb 21 - 08:58 AM

at particular trip, Jack. Not only would it be carting you to and from the centre, it would be coming from the taxi rank to your house to pick you up then doing the reverse journey after taking you home.

She didn't get one specially made for the trip. Most of the resource footprint of a car is in getting it made, shipped and disposed of. Fuel is probably a bit higher for taxis because they run such high mileages; the balance is much worse for electric cars because their materials require such enormous energy inputs and destructive mining.

The place I had mine done was within walking distance.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Thompson
Date: 23 Feb 21 - 06:11 PM

The way the world is, many rural areas would be devoid of people but for cars. I live four miles out of town with no usable pathway, the A39 round here is notoriously dangerous and public transport is next to non-existent. So how would you like it to be, and who do you think the real shitbags are?

By "the A39 round here is notoriously dangerous" do you mean the drivers on that road are notoriously dangerous, Steve?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Feb 21 - 06:12 PM

Well the nearest I can ever get mine done is ten miles away. I've long advocated universal free public transport, including a massive uplift for it in rural areas. If you didn't have to pay to go anywhere, most people would put up with the inconveniences of longer journey times and stations not quite being in the right place for them. And if anyone knows where there's a statue of Beeching, the Cornish Army would soon know what to do with it. The Tamar is deep...


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Feb 21 - 06:31 PM

Whilst I agree with your sentiment that it's not the roads that are dangerous, it's some of the particular drivers who are idiots who use them (an argument I make meself all the time), Thompson, I was specifically thinking of pedestrians who might want to walk to Bude from where I live. From here, the first mile of the single-carriageway A39 is bendy and narrow in places and has no footway or refuges. The speed limit is 60. If every driver in that stretch was a saint, the road would still not be safe for pedestrians. Further on there's a short stretch of footway, then one. It's possible to get off the road after a mile and a half and walk into town along the canal, a completely unlit stretch in remote country. It's hardly an attractive proposition and, for that mile and a half, you are sort of taking your life in your hands (I've done it a few times). That's just the way it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Feb 21 - 06:32 PM

Then none


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Feb 21 - 10:24 AM

FDA review confirms safety and efficacy of single-shot Johnson & Johnson coronavirus vaccine, especially against severe cases

Washington Post, February 24, 2021

A Food and Drug Administration review released Wednesday of the single-shot coronavirus vaccine made by pharmaceutical giant Johnson & Johnson found it was safe and effective and completely prevented hospitalizations and deaths in a large clinical trial.

The review sets the stage for a third coronavirus vaccine to be authorized as soon as this weekend, a point of hope in the middle of a pandemic that has killed more than a half-million people in the United States.

The review, although positive, was more nuanced than regulators’ assessments of the first two coronavirus vaccines, reflecting a pandemic that has entered a more complicated phase as variants capable of slipping by some aspects of immunity have emerged. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine was more than 85 percent effective at preventing severe illness, including in a region dominated by a concerning variant, but only 66 percent protective overall when moderate cases were included.

The FDA scientists found that the “known benefits” of the vaccine included reducing the risk of symptomatic and severe cases of its disease, covid-19, at least two weeks after vaccination. The review found vaccine efficacy against severe covid-19 “was similarly high across the United States, South Africa, and Brazil.”

“We know this vaccine prevents 85 percent of the severe disease. . . . It was 100 percent effective in preventing hospitalization and deaths, and that’s really what’s important,” said Nancy M. Bennett, a professor of medicine and public health sciences at the University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry. “Those facts are the most important thing to recognize.”

The vaccine was less effective in a subgroup of adults older than 60 who also had risk factors for severe illness, but regulators noted there were no deaths or cases requiring medical intervention a month after those older adults received vaccines. Overall, there were seven deaths in the trial, all in the group that received a placebo.

An external committee of scientific experts is scheduled to meet Friday to recommend whether the FDA should authorize the shot. If the regulatory deliberations follow the path of the previous two authorized coronavirus vaccines — a joint vaccine from U.S. pharmaceutical giant Pfizer and German biotech firm BioNTech, and one from U.S. biotech company Moderna — a decision could come this weekend.

Public health officials have eagerly awaited the arrival of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine because it is expected to streamline the logistics of a complicated mass vaccination campaign. The vaccine can be stored in a refrigerator for several months, which should ease the challenges of distributing frozen products, and it doesn’t require a follow-up visit for a booster shot.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Feb 21 - 09:16 PM

Four days later,
the muscle/arm where the injection went in
is pretty much back to normal,
but whoa!
Was it ever swollen and touchy with pain for a few days.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Helen
Date: 24 Feb 21 - 09:45 PM

keberoxu, did you get out of doing housework for four days? :-D


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jos
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 04:06 AM

Newsreaders on the radio this morning are expressing surprise and delight at the high levels of antibodies among people who had the Pfizer vaccine - PARTICULARLY among those who had also HAD THE VIRUS.
Well, what did they expect.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Thompson
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 12:30 PM

There's a new French vaccine made by Valneva which is made from the whole virus, and so works against all variants. It's likely that this will be used not only as a two-shot vaccine, but also as a booster shot for those who've had all other vaccines. The UK has optioned 40 million doses.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 01:46 PM

Why can't our scruffy clumsy PM, Boris Johnson, just say "hello" instead of going within a metre of so many people to touch elbows?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Feb 21 - 05:06 AM

Those who refuse the covid vaccine are selfish (except for medical reasons of course) and we all know the "doubting Thomas" types who do!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 21 - 06:38 AM

There's hardly a "medical reason" on earth why anyone shouldn't have the vaccine. The percentage of people needed to be immune (via vaccine or catching the virus) needs to be in the high eighties or low nineties in order for us to get to herd immunity. Antivaxxers and namby-pamby vaccine-refusers (who love to proclaim their ignorance from the rooftops: we've had at least one on here who sarcastically thanked the rest of us for being his guinea-pigs before he decides whether, down the line, he should take the vaccine) will seriously hamper efforts to get the virus under control, and more people will suffer and die. The side effects are either slight and transient or non-existent and all the vaccines are safe and effective. Even the Queen was rolled out to tell us that (and good for her, say I). I'm having mine on Sunday and bloody wild horses wouldn't stop me.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 21 - 06:45 AM

Well I have a left leg like a blotchy balloon and I'm so stuffed with antibiotics that there's no room left for me dinner. My coronavirus test, ordered because the cellulitis gave me a fever, came back negative. I've checked, and being on huge doses of antibiotics is not a "medical reason" for not having the jab. I'll wear long pants and not mention it when I go.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Feb 21 - 08:56 AM

I think there may be certain medications are thought to clash adversly with contents of the vaccine.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 21 - 09:50 AM

Well I can't find references to any. The main contraindication is for anyone allergic to any of the contents of the vaccine. That would be very rare, and in any case the staff at UK vaccination centres have the training and wherewithal to treat anyone who has a rapid adverse reaction. Common allergens have not been used in the vaccines. If you know you have such an allergy you can ask and find out, and should. Allergies to peanuts, eggs, dust mites, cat hair and suchlike don't count. If you hear anyone giving you an excuse for not having the jab they're almost certainly bullshitting.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Feb 21 - 09:56 AM

Thompson, I'm not sure that your description of a vaccine made from 'whole virus' defends against variants. By definition, the variants are not part of the original virus from which that vaccine was derived. There is of course a time element. After the vaccine is made from a particular virus at a particular date, the variants occur. No way can a vaccine anticipate the variant. To do that it would have to 'anticipate' what would happen, or attack a portion of the virus that remains invariant. By contrast, there are flu virus medications which attack all flu viruses such as Tamiflu, but you'll note it is a palliative, not a definitive 'cure' and flu vaccines come out every year and are not necessarily very effective.

We are all hoping that Covid-19 does not turn out to be a ready mutator such as flu. But we are learning it does mutate to some extent.

Please provide a source/ link for a statement such as yours.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 21 - 10:08 AM

Well I've heard news of research on variant-proof vaccines too. As ever, they have to made, then tested for safety and efficacy. We're ok for now with what we've got, so let's wait and see.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Feb 21 - 12:45 PM

Steve, I'm really sorry to hear about
the cellulitis and your leg,
it sounds truly horrible.
I hope those antibiotics do what they're supposed to do
and that you feel more like yourself very soon.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 21 - 01:32 PM

Cheers for that kind thought. I had it more severely last May, when I delayed getting help as I didn't know what was up (I hadn't even heard the word "cellulitis"). As the infection (by common bugs that live on everyone's skin) is in deep skin layers, the antibiotics don't get there very quickly. Yesterday the doc doubled my dose. I tolerate such things very well so the antibiotic doesn't upset me at all, and my leg feels much better today (though it isn't a pretty sight!). I actually feel fairly normal today, for the first time this week. Onward and upward!


Cellulitis is a common and serious disease that not enough people know much about. The infection starts via a break in the skin, very likely something insignificant. Once the germs are in, they can spread rapidly if they get into the bloodstream (as happened with me last year) and there is the danger of sepsis, which is often fatal. It's crucial to recognise the symptoms of cellulitis early and get help, even if it means going to the hospital emergency department.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 27 Feb 21 - 03:43 PM

Just heard from a friend who is recovering from a nasty attack of shingles (herpes zoster): she should have had a vaccination for that earlier last year, but this was delayed because of Covid! In the UK, this is offered to anyone over 70: it doesn't promise total protection from the disease, but does offer the hope of reduced symptoms if unluckily affected.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 01:05 AM

Sometimes in threads like this, I can't figure out who's talking to whom. So, I'll just leave that part alone.

I'm living with two anti-vaxxers. My 31-year-old stepson is more vehement. He thinks this whole COVID thing is a government plot, so he takes no precautions and certainly won't get a vaccination. He's taken several cross-country flights in the last year, so he has had the opportunity to import germs from all over. I really was worried about catching something from him, so I've made an effort to stay away from him. He's kind of a recluse and stays in his room much of the time, so it's not that hard to stay away. He went after me with that anti-vaxxer propaganda when he was about 12. He had one of those author-published books that is full of factoids about the horrors of vaccines, and he had almost memorized that damn book - at the age of 12. I firmly stated that I listened only to medical doctors on medical issues, and I had no desire to argue with him.

Now he's 31 and has two-year degrees in computer science and statistics, and a bachelor's in Physics....and he still thinks he knows everything about medical science. Back in about March, he went on a long tirade about how Dr. Fauci and the epidemiologists were all wrong and he had developed a spreadsheet to prove it. I had no interest in his spreadsheet, and told him I wouldn't talk with him about epidemiology unless he's an epidemiologist with a medical degree. He got kinda scary, and yelled and slammed his door so hard I thought it would fall down. Since then, I have mostly avoided him except for making occasional remarks in his hearing about our "asshole President Trump." He has settled down a bit since the inauguration, but not much.

My wife is a chiropractor, now retired. She's very good at healing orthopedic issues, but I can't agree with her on medical stuff. She spent $2500 on a homemade machine connected to crystals in test tubes that the patient was supposed to hold in his/her hands. Then she hooked up with a guy who took blood samples from people who came to gatherings at our house that were like Tupperware parties, and then he'd give flaky analyses of their entire medical condition after a quick look at their blood through a microscope. He had no credentials of his own, so he was taking advantage of my wife's chiropractic license to add an illusion of credibility. I called him the "blood jerk." During one session, I blew up and told him before the group how full of shit he was. Then I demanded that my wife have nothing to do with him. She was making less than $900 a month, less than I was paying in taxes, and she had no liability insurance. I told her that she and the blood jerk had no assets, and I didn't want to expose my assets to that sort of quackery. So, she agreed not to host the guy anymore, but it was a difficult moment. I felt bad being a husband bossing his wife around like that, but I just couldn't expose myself to that sort of liability unless she could find a legal way to insulate me from that.

She has been relatively cautious about COVID, and I'm grateful for that. She takes more chances than I would, but she generally adheres to the guidelines for masks and distancing. I thought she was going to get the vaccine when it became available, but she told me last month, that she thought she'd pass it up and leave it to more deserving people.

This week, I had a conference about COVID with a group of Latinas and the county health officer, who is an acquaintance of mine. He's well-qualified as a public health physician, and he knows his stuff. He answered all the questions the ladies had, and it was a very good session. So, I was talking about this with my wife today, and she started asking all sorts of technical questions from her pseudo-scientific point of reckoning. I finally said I didn't want to talk about the matter and I didn't want to spend time researching it. I said I believe a lot of information because of the credibility of the sources, and I think Dr. Fauci and most of the professional epidemiologists have established themselves as more credible than self-anointed "experts" who can't even find a conventional publisher for their books.

So, it stands there. At least I have my COCID shots. It's difficult to live peacefully with people who are convinced of theories that are outside the conventional realm of truth. My wife and I simply don't talk about certain things.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: BobL
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 03:01 AM

We've had at least one on here who sarcastically thanked the rest of us for being his guinea-pigs

He's just as much a guinea-pig. He's the control.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Allan Conn
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 03:28 AM

Re the anti-vaxxers! Round about where I am there obviously are anti-vaxxers but I think they are a lot less numerous on the ground than they are loud on the internet. The vast bulk of folks seem to be really keen to get their jags! The take up among the older age group has been very high indeed - far higher than the authorities expected. Among some of the age groups it is approaching virtually nearly everyone having the vaccination. In the high 90%s. It will be interesting to see how that continues down the generations. I suppose the more vulnerable you feel then the more likely you are to want a vaccination!

When the 65s and overs were done I was expecting to be in the next 60 to 64 group - but unless there is some other underlying condition we seem to have been pushed down the list a bit. Kind of frustrating when I pass the vaccination centre on my daily walk!!! ;-)

I know how Joe feels about just not touching on subjects with people you live with though! My wife and I are more or less in agreement with most things but we just need to avoid the Scottish independence subject as that causes real friction in this household and both parties are pretty set in their opinions.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 04:25 AM

I wasn't expecting my vaccination until after my 65th birthday but I got my invitation and had it on Friday. Now I see they seem to have changed the age groups and the next group will be the 60-63 year olds. There were quite a few young people (early 20s) in the queue on Friday. I expect they were health care workers. This in England,BTW.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 04:50 AM

Anti-vaxxers are very selfish.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 06:26 AM

We have anti-vaxxers round here who think that coronavirus doesn't exist and that the vaccine is a ploy to get microchips into us all. Then there are those who don't share those views but who won't have the vaccine because they've taken on board bullshit about how vaccines are unsafe, give us the actual disease, no-one's pumping viruses into me, etc. Unfortunately, gullibility appears to be bred into the human race (or is it that we don't put enough emphasis in schools on critical thinking and being automatically sceptical when off-beam ideas come along...?) As for people who refuse to take the vaccine, they'll be fine as long as enough of the rest of us do the right thing. They won't have helped and, in fact, may be prolonging the period until we get herd immunity. So no thanks to them. We'll do it for them. Bonzo won't like the analogy, but it's reminiscent of those people who wouldn't join a trade union "on principle," but who weren't "principled" enough to refuse the pay rises that the unions won.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 01:37 PM

Sorry to hear about your cellulitis, Steve and hope it is responding well to treatment.
Not quite sure why you shouted at Donuel for his last post, though, as Augmentin IS an antibiotic (anti-bacterial) - known as co-amoxyclav over here - amoxycillin + clavulanic acid - and IS commonly used for treating cellulitis. However the drug(s) of choice will be those that are shown by to be most appropriate, by swab and sensitivity testing, for whichever bacterium is causing your particular attack of cellulitis. Signed Tattie Bogle, M.B., B.S. and a whole load more letters.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 02:30 PM

That's as maybe, but I've had two serious attacks of this and amoxicillin has been ineffective and withdrawn from my treatment. What I don't need is a non-doctor making 'helpful" medicine suggestions when I'm hurting, thanks. That's something that too many people are a bit too willing to indulge in on internet forums.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 02:34 PM

On a brighter note, I got Pfizer-jabbed this affy. Didn't feel a thing!


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 02:49 PM

On an even brighter note, Mrs Steve was winding me up on the drive home from the vaccination centre. Looking in the mirror, she exclaimed "Hey, there's a car behind us with a tracking device on the roof...Oh my God, it's Bill Gates!!"


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 05:49 PM

Oh, Steve Shaw, you crack me up. Considering all the based-on-your-opinion advice you dish out to others!

I am not getting vaccinated if I can help it, not for any of the silly reasons above, but for my own, silly to some, reasons. First, I have no comorbidities, second, I am still (for another 12 days) in my fifties, so for both of those reasons I am content to wait my actual turn, which I hope won't be for years.

And that is because of reason 3, which is untested technologies. I would like to see the vaccine tested for at least 3 and preferably 5 years, as all vaccines should be. In 3-5 years, we should know more about mRNA vaccines with nanoparticles, and about coronovirus variants.

But I am *not* recommending anybody *else* either have the jab OR not have the jab. Rely on your own intelligence, make your own decision. Jab or no jab, the data are fairly clear, by now, on masks and distance and clean hands minimizing viral spread.

The vaccines do not, apparently, prevent your catching the virus. The vaccines do not, therefore, prevent you spreading the virus. The vaccines are, apparently, really good at preventing you from getting seriously ill if you do catch the virus.

So do keep on with the masks and the distance and the clean hands.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 06:47 PM

No, but you are going big and loud about any negative you can rustle up. From what you have posted here there is not a single reason on earth why you shouldn't have the jab. Your choice, of course, as it always should be. But if there were tens of millions of refusers like you, a lot more people would die. Carry on relying on the fact that there aren't too many of you. So go figure, huh.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 06:56 PM

Incidentally, this is blatant misinformation and you really shouldn't be propagating it:

"The vaccines do not, therefore, prevent you spreading the virus."

This is not known. Maybe yes, maybe no, maybe to a larger or lesser extent. The science is not there. So please refrain from nonsense such as this. It is completely irresponsible.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 10:10 PM

Mrrzy:

If you think about your last post, it makes you come off as an anti-vaxxer. After participating in a thread where you earlier mentioned turning down a jab because you didn't think "it was your turn", you now give non-scientific reasons for why you don't want it.

The vaccines have been tested. Numbers of the sick are coming down where the vaccines are being put into living bodies.

All new vaccines are, by definition, new. Think of how many lives would have been saved had a 'new' flue vaccine been available in 1918-1919 (The technology didn't exist at the time).

I know you are a very intelligent, expressive poster. All I ask is that you think in the very terms those folks you ae working with do.

Remember the story of the guy in the flood who turned down a pickup truck to get him out of his house, as the water rose, a boat came by. As he was clinging to the roof of his house, a helicopter offered him a line...each time he said "No, save someone else, the Lord will look after me!"

He drowned.

As he stood before the Lord, he said: "I don't understand why you didn't save me!"

"I SENT YOU A PICKUP, A BOAT, AND A HELICOPTER!"

You are being sent a vaccine.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: BobL
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 03:17 AM

Think of it this way: the vaccine isn't a magic bullet, it's another weapon in the armoury.

BTW if it were technically possible to implant a microchip with the vaccine, it would save a lot of bothering with vax passports.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 09:06 AM

The CDC has made it very clear that the vaccine was not tested for ability to prevent catching or spreading the virus, but only for prevention of illness if you do catch it.

It is much more responsible to assume that it doesn't prevent catching or spreading, than that it does.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 09:44 AM

Mrrzy's right. The vaccines haven't been tested for ability to stop the spread. I probably don't have up-to-date information, but I know the most recent J&J one wasn't.

They still advise wearing masks, washing hands, and social distancing, even if you've had the vaccine.

BUT if you can reduce the severity of this virus to that of a bad cold, and know you won't die from it, it's worth getting the shot.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 09:49 AM

Oh, and they ARE supposed to induce immunity in the person vaccinated, so prevent you from getting it.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 10:46 AM

From the CDC website:
COVID-19 vaccination will help keep you from getting COVID-19

All COVID-19 vaccines currently available in the United States have been shown to be highly effective at preventing COVID-19. Learn more about the different COVID-19 vaccines.
All COVID-19 vaccines that are in development are being carefully evaluated in clinical trials and will be authorized or approved only if they make it substantially less likely you’ll get COVID-19. Learn more about how federal partners are ensuring COVID-19 vaccines work.
Based on what we know about vaccines for other diseases and early data from clinical trials, experts believe that getting a COVID-19 vaccine may also help keep you from getting seriously ill even if you do get COVID-19.
Getting vaccinated yourself may also protect people around you, particularly people at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19.
Experts continue to conduct more studies about the effect of COVID-19 vaccination on severity of illness from COVID-19, as well as its ability to keep people from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19.

COVID-19 vaccination is a safer way to help build protection

COVID-19 can have serious, life-threatening complications, and there is no way to know how COVID-19 will affect you. And if you get sick, you could spread the disease to friends, family, and others around you.
Clinical trials of all vaccines must first show they are safe and effective before any vaccine can be authorized or approved for use, including COVID-19 vaccines. The known and potential benefits of a COVID-19 vaccine must outweigh the known and potential risks of the vaccine for use under what is known as an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA). Watch a video on what an EUA is.
Getting COVID-19 may offer some natural protection, known as immunity. Current evidence suggests that reinfection with the virus that causes COVID-19 is uncommon in the 90 days after initial infection. However, experts don’t know for sure how long this protection lasts, and the risk of severe illness and death from COVID-19 far outweighs any benefits of natural immunity. COVID-19 vaccination will help protect you by creating an antibody (immune system) response without having to experience sickness.
Both natural immunity and immunity produced by a vaccine are important parts of COVID-19 disease that experts are trying to learn more about, and CDC will keep the public informed as new evidence becomes available.

COVID-19 vaccination will be an important tool to help stop the pandemic

Wearing masks and social distancing help reduce your chance of being exposed to the virus or spreading it to others, but these measures are not enough. Vaccines will work with your immune system so it will be ready to fight the virus if you are exposed.
The combination of getting vaccinated and following CDC’s recommendations to protect yourself and others will offer the best protection from COVID-19.
Stopping a pandemic requires using all the tools we have available. As experts learn more about how COVID-19 vaccination may help reduce spread of the disease in communities, CDC will continue to update the recommendations to protect communities using the latest science.

The unimpressive HTML is mine.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 10:58 AM

From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 05:49 PM
. . .

I am not getting vaccinated if I can help it, not for any of the silly reasons above, but for my own, silly to some, reasons. First, I have no comorbidities, second, I am still (for another 12 days) in my fifties, so for both of those reasons I am content to wait my actual turn, which I hope won't be for years.

And that is because of reason 3, which is untested technologies. I would like to see the vaccine tested for at least 3 and preferably 5 years, as all vaccines should be. In 3-5 years, we should know more about mRNA vaccines with nanoparticles, and about coronovirus variants.


I assume that you mean that you are happy to see it tested on other people before you accept the security it gives based on others taking any (miniscule) risk.
If everyone took that attitude the drugs would never be tested and we would still see people dying in much greater numbers than they currently are as we would never see the emergence of a tested vaccine. And there would be many, many more carriers who could possibly infect you (and others).


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 11:58 AM

Mrrzy: "The vaccines do not, therefore, prevent you spreading the virus."

Jeri: "Mrrzy's right. The vaccines haven't been tested for ability to stop the spread."

Mrrzy is NOT right. He said that the vaccines don't stop the spread. As you rightly say, the vaccines haven't been tested for that. "Not tested for it" does NOT mean the same thing as "they don't do it."

I hate to keep saying it, but spreading negative misinformation about vaccines plays straight into the hands of anti-vaxxers. Let's try to not do that in this thread at least.

Your link says "Experts continue to conduct more studies about the effect of COVID-19 vaccination on severity of illness from COVID-19, as well as its ability to keep people from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19.

When the vaccines were developed, the priority was to establish their efficacy and their safety. The urgency of getting the vaccines out precluded at that stage testing for the ability to prevent spread. That matters, but not as urgently as efficacy and safety. The data will continue to roll in. That's how it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 12:18 PM

There are many things that weren't tested for because it took too long; there will be results as the vaccines are distributed and recipients respond to CDC queries. I joined a study by phone and over the next six weeks have answered questions about symptoms following the inoculations. Those may be less scientific because not everyone joins, but any information helps.

Scientists working on treating COVID-19 eventually hope to be able to say that the vaccines not only stop recipients from catching COVID-19, but vaccinated people won't catch or spread it. Like polio or smallpox. But the claims must await the test of time. In the meantime, their qualified remarks give the anti-vaxxers a target to shoot at, as willfully-uninformed as they are about the whole thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 12:25 PM

That's a downside all right. But it's important that new data is interpreted, as carefully as possible, to the public, as it rolls out. It's equally important that we remain vigilant about misinformation being disseminated. The best way to counter it is with accurate and clear statements about the way things really are.


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