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Do you tell someone to shut up?

GUEST,# 23 Apr 21 - 11:30 AM
leeneia 22 Apr 21 - 08:40 PM
Jeri 22 Apr 21 - 07:54 PM
Steve Shaw 22 Apr 21 - 07:27 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 22 Apr 21 - 07:22 PM
Jack Campin 22 Apr 21 - 06:21 PM
The Sandman 22 Apr 21 - 04:17 PM
GUEST 22 Apr 21 - 11:24 AM
AndyG 20 Jan 00 - 10:14 AM
alison 20 Jan 00 - 09:48 AM
Thomas Covenant 19 Jan 00 - 11:24 PM
Penny S. 19 Jan 00 - 06:00 PM
AndyG 19 Jan 00 - 06:40 AM
Lady McMoo 19 Jan 00 - 05:01 AM
alison 19 Jan 00 - 04:33 AM
Guy Wolff 18 Jan 00 - 09:35 PM
Stupidbodhranplayerwhodoesn'tknowanybetter 18 Jan 00 - 06:16 PM
Bert 18 Jan 00 - 04:48 PM
Peg 18 Jan 00 - 03:44 PM
Herge 13 Jan 00 - 08:19 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Jan 00 - 06:02 PM
Grubby 12 Jan 00 - 10:25 PM
Steve Latimer 12 Jan 00 - 09:13 AM
sarah the queen 12 Jan 00 - 08:51 AM
Nick Jones 12 Jan 00 - 07:02 AM
Liz the Squeak 12 Jan 00 - 05:41 AM
WyoWoman 12 Jan 00 - 12:36 AM
Jon Freeman 12 Jan 00 - 12:16 AM
reggie miles 11 Jan 00 - 11:33 PM
Rick Fielding 11 Jan 00 - 08:02 PM
Nick Jones 11 Jan 00 - 04:17 PM
Petr 10 Jan 00 - 04:58 PM
Steve Latimer 10 Jan 00 - 04:40 PM
Jeri 10 Jan 00 - 04:34 PM
peg 10 Jan 00 - 03:51 PM
Den 10 Jan 00 - 01:17 PM
Mike Billo 10 Jan 00 - 10:53 AM
kendall 10 Jan 00 - 10:11 AM
10 Jan 00 - 09:59 AM
Lady McMoo 10 Jan 00 - 06:09 AM
Lady McMoo 10 Jan 00 - 06:07 AM
Roger the skiffler 10 Jan 00 - 05:30 AM
The Duck of the Irish 10 Jan 00 - 12:53 AM
JamesJim 09 Jan 00 - 11:49 PM
Mikal 09 Jan 00 - 11:12 PM
catspaw49 09 Jan 00 - 10:36 PM
Mikal 09 Jan 00 - 10:24 PM
Mudjack 09 Jan 00 - 09:35 PM
Little Neophyte 09 Jan 00 - 09:22 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Jan 00 - 09:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 23 Apr 21 - 11:30 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSALQn0u9z4


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: leeneia
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 08:40 PM

Good for you, Jeri.


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 07:54 PM

Why don't people ever refresh 11 year dead NICE threads? (Shutting up.)


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 07:27 PM

Completely agree, Jack. I react to him, and a few others like him, exactly as you do. It's very clever to be able to make the thing sound like water glugging out of a bottle, but the fatal sin of every bodhran specialist I've ever heard is to make themselves the point of the music. Which they are not. A bodhran owner is trying to add something to an Irish tune that is already there in the tune and which doesn't need adding to.


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 07:22 PM

YES - Always


To the these ditties are always appropriate:
   with raised elbows to the offender.

Thank God she finally shut up,
She’s always fucking bitchin,
So drink your beer, get out of here,
And get back in the kitchen.


Or a current one I keep and recorded and always waiting on que.


You talk too much
You worry me to death
You talk too much
You even worry my pet

Sincerly,
Gargoyle

An elbow point always keeps it friendly.
You just talk
Talk too much



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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 06:21 PM

The difference between a bendir and a bodhran is that the bendir player knows what they're doing.

I have heard John-Joe Kelly live a couple of times. Insufferable self-centred anti-musical showoff. I've avoided anything where he's on the bill ever since.


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 04:17 PM

You mentioned two drummers that are musicians , some are no, I suggest that drummers be familiar with the tune not just play rhythym patterns, and ask first and then play quietly, it is after all an accompanying instrument, and we can all play the tunes, without a drummer, drummers are not a necessity, a good one can lift the music an insensitve can feck it up


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 11:24 AM

A number of points : firstly, a drum is a drum and can be used for many types of music - it depends on how it's played. For example, I used to use one very effectively for Kentucky Running Set with more syncopation than would be appropriate for Irish. Secondly, drummers are musicians - just look at Evelyn Glennie, and Easy Club's Jim Sutherland who played cittern as well as bodhran and wrote some great tunes. Personally, I would never join in with a musician on stage unless specifically invited to so. I'm even reluctant to join in with chorus songs until the singer has indicated that they want people to participate.


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: AndyG
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 10:14 AM

Penny,

Two useful web sites:
Roundstone Musical Instruments Ltd.
The Bodhrán Page

Both carry basic tutorials.

AndyG


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: alison
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 09:48 AM

Penny.. send me your email... and I'll give you the sheet I use to teach beginners, (it has some info for what else to get to help you go on from the basics)

slainte

alison epulse@tpg.com.au


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Thomas Covenant
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 11:24 PM

I am minded here of the immortal Séamus Ennis who once opined that the only true way to play a bodhrán is with a penknife


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Penny S.
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 06:00 PM

I went away from this thread last night and practiced drumming on my Chinese steamer (it has Stomp type possibilities, but I can't find a decent tipper in my kitchen yet). Apart from the obvious advice not to, where would I find a source on how to play bodhran? I've had this thing about drumming since being kicked out of the percussion band at age eight. (There was a graphic score, and we had to play a rhythm like drum, tambourine, tambourine, cymbal, three times then drum, tamb, tamb, triangle. I couldn't make the drum rhythm and got demoted to triangle. I was drumming to a different march.) Most of the time, it lies quiescent, but it's back. Tell me not to do it!

Penny


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: AndyG
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 06:40 AM

I totally endorse mcmoo's comments about Joe Kelly. My jaw hit the floor when I first saw/heard him. His playing is incredibly innovative and fluent in any style. Absolute magic to listen to (and watch).

I get to see them again on March 7th, Yay!

AndyG
who plays bodhran whilst suffering all the faults of a p'd up and p'd off player


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 05:01 AM

I know I'm always plugging this record but the CD "Flatfish" by Flook! (Flook! Can you give me a free ticket to your next concert in the Surreal Kingdom for all these plugs...!)contains some of the very finest bodhran playing (John Joe Kelly) that I've ever heard, ranging from the ultra subtle to super dynamic but always highly tasteful. Also shows how a bodhran and guitar (Ed Boyd) can work together brilliantly as a powerhouse rhythm unit. I'd also fully endorse bodhranplayers list of fine players a couple of posts back.

mcmoo(whoownsabodhranlikeeverybodyelsebutrarelyadmitstoit)


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: alison
Date: 19 Jan 00 - 04:33 AM

When I teach bodhran workshops I always include a section on etiquette... but the same goes for any instrument or voice... if you can't hear whoever is singing / playing lead- then you are too loud.

a towel works well to dampen the noise..... also leather ended tippers are great for playing quietly..... as I have said before a friend of mine made herself one using a piece of dowling. she cut the fingers off a pair of womens leather gloves, stuffed them with kapok and superglued them to the ends of the stick.... voila!

people do think the bodhran is an easy instrument to play - it is certainly easy to get a noise out of...... but "playing" takes practice....

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 18 Jan 00 - 09:35 PM

Peace on earth to men of good will. I liked the statement about Graciusness and generousity Yay WyoWoman!!!!.. Hard to pull off but very much worth the effort.! All the best, Guy


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Stupidbodhranplayerwhodoesn'tknowanybetter
Date: 18 Jan 00 - 06:16 PM

I was blessed with a teacher who crammed etiquitte down my throat, and further blessed with friends who let me know with different degrees (or absences) of tact. It sometimes hurt my feelings (even drummers have feelings), but I'm a much better player for it. You might want to suggest to the drummer in question, if he has the table-leg looking warclub tipper that comes with most tourist bodhrans that he get a lighter stick. It will also help his overall development. (If he actually wants to develop!)I gave one kid a month's worth of free lessons on the condition that he not bring his drum to our session until he learned to play it. He eventually realized that he wasn't going to master it overnight and gave up, but the end result was the same for us. I also have no problem with alluding to the one bodhran at a time rule of thumb and sometimes throw out the hint that two fiddles are called "harmony" whereas two bodhrans are "an infernal racket". It is also important to not throw stones from a glass house. If you're a box player who can play quietly but doesn't, your opinion isn't going to carry a whole lot of weight! Finally, suggest some good CDs to listen to to learn how a bodhran is supposed to sound. A few good examples; Arcady, Dedannan, Nomos (Frank tears his drum up but at an appropriate level), Dervish (very subtle), Colm Murphy's compilation_An Bodhran_. The last is a CD specifically intended to showcase Colm's bodhran playing and even at that is not dominating the melody players. We're a hated breed thus have a responsibility to not make the bodhran hater in question right. Slan, Rich


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Bert
Date: 18 Jan 00 - 04:48 PM

Liz the Squeak,

I just went to an 'Oscar Brand' house concert. There was a small baby there which started to make a little fuss.
As the father was about to take him outside Oscar says "Don't take the baby out just because it's crying. I've raised four of them and every time I sang, they all cried, - IN HARMONY"

Bert.


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Peg
Date: 18 Jan 00 - 03:44 PM

hey Grubby! Would you consider making a boudhran for an experienced (trained even!) boudhran player? I am in the market for a new one... i can get references for you if you need to know my level of courtesy, sense of rhythm, etc.

email me back if you want... amberapple@aol.com

peg


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Herge
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 08:19 PM

Thanks for all your suggestions. I'm not anti bodhran but I do think people think its the easiest instrument to learn and also cheep to buy. It seems to those interested the easiest way of entering the close knit world of the 'session' without spending over 3 years learning an instrument and getting up to session speed. I have also seen it used as a stepping stone to other instruments - once the player gets into the scene, picks up the tunes in his/her head and then goes on to play them on whistle or other instrument. I dont think I will say anything and just be gratefull that the next generation is taking an interest in the music. Hopefully he will settle down as he begins to understand the secret, complex and unwritten rules of the 'session' Herge


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 06:02 PM

The fella with a drum machine? In principle that's easy enough - remind him it's a live music session. If he turns it on stop playing, and get a drink.

With someone playing a real instrument it's a bit different. The people I play with have no problem telling me if I'm playing too loud or too fast, and I do the same for them. But then we know each other.

I know that when I'm in a strange session I try to move in tactfully, and I think it's fair enough to expect that other people should do the same. But being brash is the way some people deal with being shy, and you've got to let strangers feel they are welcome. And often the worst offenders aren't drunks who can't play,it's people who can play very well, but haven't learnt to listen to other people yet.

As for bodhrans not fitting in other types of music and so forth - I can't go with the idea that you look at an instrument, and decide that it doesn't fit in. As someone just said, where'd Irish music be if it kept out bouzoukis and banjos? I think bluegrass might be greatly improved sometimes by the occasional bodhran or bouzouki or pipes. (Well it sounds prettty good when Irish sessions start playing American tunes. And "Turkey in the Straw" is in Captain O'Neill's BOOK).

It's how you play it that matters. The drum we call the bodhran is the simplest and most widely spread one there is - North Africa, Native American, India... It can be played in all kinds of ways. Some of them people are only starting to learn. But the critial thing is that it goes under the music, not on top of it, and follows the rhthym, rather than leading it.


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Grubby
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 10:25 PM

It's never ceases to amaze me in sessions when a stranger comes up and asks if he/she can have a go on your bodhran.They never seem to ask if they can have a go on your fiddle or flute etc. I suspect they thing the bodhran is pretty simple to play and they will master it straight away.There are people that play the bodhran and bodhran beaters a big bloody difference. I learnt a valuable lesson some time back, I use to make bodhrans and sell them locally. The next thing I knew our local session was chock full of new bodhran players all playing bodhrans made by me and all going for the world record of beating the goatskin at their first attempt. Well as you can imagine this didn't go down to well with the other session players so we needed to do a bit of bodhran culling to return things to a more managable situation.As a result of all this my little bodhran making busines was shelved. I still get requests from people to make them a bodhran, but I am not game to do it the nerve has gone. I've been through one epidemic not going through another. But a good bodhran player is great for a session and a good player knows when to shut up. As with all aspects of life there are time when we have to be told things.So I suggest he is told in the correct way and he will learn from it.We don't want you to go away we just don't want you to play :) Spot on with your quote Mikal "The best players are hardly there, just a heartbeat in the background most of the time."

Grubby


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 09:13 AM

Rick,

I wish I was joking. My concern is that if nobody says anything to him that he will continue to come back. I don't think it's my place to say anything, but I will if I have to. I should prepare myself by finding information on another Sunday night jam in the area that may be more along his musical style. Oh yeah, and tell him to leave the drum machine at home.

Sarah, welcome, I often feel the same way myself, but stick around, it is often very interesting, informative and amusing, and I believe for the most part heterosexual (not that there's anything wrong with the other).


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: sarah the queen
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 08:51 AM

WHAT IN TARNATION IS THIS CRAP? WHAT ARE ALL YA'LL DUMB BUTS GRIPING ABOUT? THIS IS A GAY WEBSITE!!! SHUTUP!!!

!@#$%$%^&&%#@!!@#@$%$$#


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Nick Jones
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 07:02 AM

Well Liz, I do accept your point that demanding silence is not really practical, but to play the bodhran from the audience while anyone is on stage is completely unacceptable, particulaly as John Kirkpatrick could not be more associated with English music. I felt that he had every right to be abrupt as indeed I would have been in the same situation. Unfortunately we are dealing, not with reasonable people like you and me, but thick-skinned untalented people who think that their contribution is required. Because they are not musicians they just think that can come along and bang something and it will be alright. I think that if you have spent 25 years learning to play an instrument then you have every right to be rude to people who ruin what you are doing, it's not as if they are beginners and will get better in time (I always support beginners) they are always going to be no good (don't forget I am speaking about bodhran players not musicians).


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 05:41 AM

WyoWoman, you have hit it right on the head, if you tell someone to shut up in a fuck you tone of voice, then you have lost them and may even end up with your tyres slashed in the carpark afterwards (at least it is only your tyres, I've heard worse threatened by a drugged up lout at a festival). It goes back to what I've said elsewhere about my daughter. She will never learn the rules of the game, unless she is allowed to play. Telling someone rudely how not to do it, is the prime way to alienate people. John Kirkpatrick was paid to do his gig, he has a right to ASK the audience to be quiet if they are getting out of hand, but it should have been the job of the stewards at the venue to do that. If he continues to DEMAND silence during his gigs in the abrupt way that he does, he will rapidly go the way of June Tabor, and lose festival bookings. Just because someone is at the top of the profession, does not give them a right to be rude to or about their audiences. Even being the session leader does not give you the right to be rude to anyone. I've worked with the public in many situations over the years, and politeness always wins. In the library we started with a gentle sssssh, moved up to a loud shush and only then, if the noise increased, asked politely to keep the noise down. It took about 5 stages before the offenders were asked to leave. Most venues are public places, like libraries, you cannot ask for silence. If your audience is not silent, then try a different tack. A quiet tune, a slow air or similar, on a solo instrument that musicians have to strain to hear. They will soon pass the ssssh around.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 12:36 AM

I try never to tell anyone to shut up and if I ever completely lose it and tell someone that, I feel as though I've demeaned myself.

I have, on the other hand, made many stupid mistakes as I've felt my way around the musical world and tried to discover where I fit in. I've stuck with the music I have because musicians have been generous and kind to me, and on occasions too numerous to mention have shared their wisdom and experience with me. I know now how song circles work, what the etiquette of group music is, when to sing and when to shut up -- and when I sing, I generally contribute something to the musical experience now. I still don't always know what I'm doing, but I'm still trying to learn.

If anyone had been so rude as some of the stuff some of you are suggesting when *I* was just discovering this world and just learning the rules of the road, I would have run away as fast as I could in the opposite direction and it would have made me permanently sad -- as I'd wager it would with most of you.

Graciousness and generosity are almost always appropriate, even when we have to "train" someone to change a behavior.

WW


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 12:16 AM

Reggie, you raise an interesting question. It is certainly true to say that some people are predjudiced against certain instruments in particualr situations but why should that be? How many Irish instruments are there in an Irish session? The bozouki? Even the banjo? ... Where do we stop the clock - perhaps even the fiddle doen't belong...

I think that it is fair to say that some instruments are unlikely to fit in to certain types of music but there often are players who can make the "unexpected" work... and I believe people should be open to new instruments... unless of course the aim of a venu is to be purely tradational, which comes back to the traditional at what point in history...

As far as I am aware, sessions and Jam sessions are one and the same. They are pretty variable things and a lot depends on the people that are playing in the session (and the attitude of a session leader, landlord of a pub... if as and where such people exist). When it works, playing in a session, joining in with other players is IMO the most enjoyable musical experience going and you can get "carried along" with the music. There are no hard and fast rules but as with most aspects of life, it only takes one person to ruin it for everybody else.

Jon


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: reggie miles
Date: 11 Jan 00 - 11:33 PM

Well folks I haven't experienced a session before but it doesn't sound like something I'd want to get involved with either. The feelings here seem fairly strong about what a session is but no one has made that definition very plain as Mike was trying to point out. From what I've gathered after reading these posts a session is:

A group of people who perform together certain specific types, styles or kinds of music, right down to the type of chords used in any given secified form. These folks do not necessarily comprise what might be considered a "band" but rather a loose conglomeration. These groups do not jam but rather might be considered a preservation society for a given type of music. The type of music which is played and the instruments allowed at the session are determined by someone who is either hosting or leading the session. These events happen in either an open or invitational format and can be in a public place or not. Those performers in attendance are obviously lovers of specific disciplines or styles or just lovers of the whole idea of music and performance and can be professionals or amateurs. Alcohol can be but is not necessarily a component in these events. Does that about cover it?

So if I were a lover of say jug band music, I shouldn't expect to be able to carry my washboard into an Irish session and find acceptance by those in attendance for the type of rhythms I might be able to produce because the washboard is not the type of percussion instrument normally associated with Irish music. Unless of course the rules dictated by those governing the session allowed such diversity and my abilities were deemed adequate by the group.

Wow, that's a lot of hoops to have to jump through just to have some fun playing music with others. I find it hard to believe that all these forms, stlyes or genres that so many hold as sacred today ever started out with that intention. I think it was just a bunch of folks who were having a get together to enjoy some good food, drink and music. I'm not saying there weren't those with specific ideas that they wished to explore. I mean there were certainly those, years ago, who could not handle the idea of Elvis. Heck, Elvis couldn't handle The Beatles. That didn't stop the metamorphose of music from changing exapanding and growing into new and different expressions and so it continues despite the best efforts of some to confine it to a static identity. It is only ever dynamic, changing with each new soul who is enticed by the calling to explore it's endless reaches. It is as well a glorious gift well worth sharing with others whether they be novice or sage.

End of rant-


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Jan 00 - 08:02 PM

Steve, you must be joking!

Rick


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Nick Jones
Date: 11 Jan 00 - 04:17 PM

A major point that has been missed in this thread is the obvious fact that the bodhran is only really suitable for the accompiament of Irish music, clearly we don't just play Irish music ALL the time, there is English,French,French-Canadian,Scandinavian etc. None of this music requires the driving rhythm that is a characteristic of Irish music. In fact playing the bodhran on any other style of music actually destroys the nature of the music and makes everything sound Irish (like it's the only type of folk music in the world or something). I have been known to be very rude to people who ruin my music by playing inapropriately and also ruin the session for everyone by just not bothering to try to understand the music. And as for the bodhran player who started playing from the audience while John Kirkpatrick was on stage!...... John told him to SHUT UP, Quite right!


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Petr
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 04:58 PM

Offer the bodhran player a switchblade tipper. Seriously. People should be told if they're playing too fast or loud - tactfully. I think its better to take them aside quietly, rather than in front of everyone. One idea that worked with a bodrhan player that used to come to our sessions and used to speed up and play all the time (including airs) the session leader took him aside and suggested that he might want to practice with a metronome. You always risk offending people but sometimes its better that they go away than to stay and ruin a session. The same applies to other instruments as well, especially rhythm - eg guitars. Not that many guitarists are aware that accompaniment for Irish music is more subtle - not just crashing chords, they should be more in the background - eg Dennis Cahill, Randal Bays.

As a fiddle player I play the bones sometimes, but after listening to a tape of a session I became aware of just how annoying it is, just a clacking sound. They should be used sparingly and a good bodrhan or bones player will actually play the tune. A bodhran should never set the rhythm and 1 bodhran or guitar for that matter should generally be the maximum for a session. cheers Petr


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 04:40 PM

I attend a Sunday night blues jam quite regularly. The band plays primarily Chicago Blues with some Stevie Ray thrown in. They four or five piece depending on whether the keyboard player can make it, are quite good, and nice guys as well. This is advertised as a blues jam and it's a blues club and a lot of harp players, guitar players, the odd horn player show up, most of whom are also quite good blues players.

Last week a guy showed up with an acoustic and did some eagles kind of stuff solo. Last night he came back, WITH A DRUM MACHINE and did about four songs, two of which were country. What do you do with a guy like that?


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 04:34 PM

There are some people who are listeners. They're the folks you have to cajole, encourage and threaten to get them to either play at all, or play loud enough to be heard. When they do play, they'll find ways to fit into the music. They'll listen to what others are playing and what they're playing and adapt. There are some who won't listen, and I don't quite understand them. They don't care if they fit in, they only care if they're heard. I don't know, maybe they think everyone else will adapt to them. Maybe they don't know that music is about communication, not exhibition. It doesn't matter what instrument someone plays, or if they sing and don't play - this type of individual can be a real pain in the ass.

I don't know if they have the capability of learning - I've never seen it happen myself. I'd always vote for blunt but kind honesty first. People often wait too long to say something and get mad and blurt something out. What about "Are you aware you're playing faster than anyone else? Would you please slow down a bit?" If that doesn't work, simply "slow down" during the tune. If that still doesn't work, take the fellow aside and let him know that he can choose to play with everyone else, or not play. And if it still doesn't work, and you have the backing of other session musicians, you may need to simply tell him to leave.


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: peg
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 03:51 PM

hmmm...

interesting thread.

I am a good singer and a fair-to-middling boudhran player. Hence, at any given sessiun, I wait my turn to play or be heard. I end up sitting and listening a fair amount of the time, because even when I am the only boudhran player present, I think it is impolite to drum on every tune. It would also be impolite to ask to sing too often; I usually wait to be asked unless I don't know anyone. Any good drummer knows that they should not play along with every song; just as every singer knows singing along on every song is not appropriate, since sometimes an a cappella performance is indicated. Same goes with all those fiddlers, pipers, accordionists, etc.--if the tune does not seem to call for your instrument (and some tunes really do not lend themselves to a complete instrumentation every time), then, heck, sit it out! Sip your beer, listen for a change.

Same goes when you are trying to learn a tune; listening or recording it is far better than just trying to jump in, especially if you are a not a real quick study...I'm not saying players should always sit back and remain silent when they don't know the tune, but if we all tried this occasionally it might help things run more smoothly...

but to respond to the original question, drummers simply need to be sensitive to the needs of the sessiun...and of course, no matter what, there will always be someone who criticizes or ostracizes even the most considerate and accomplished boudhran player; call it prejudice borne of so many years' traumatic experience. But one bad boudhran experience need not color everyone's lives forever! We don't all suck, ya know...

peg


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Den
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 01:17 PM

Hide his tipper during the break. Den


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Mike Billo
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 10:53 AM

Is someone being paid to run the session? Is participation by invitation only? If so, then the solutions are obvious.

However, if it's an open session attended mostly by non-professionals, then, you play with whoever shows up (not everyone of them is going to be someone you would seek out to play with on your own), or else move on.


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: kendall
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 10:11 AM

definition of curmudgeon .. Kendall


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From:
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 09:59 AM

I forgot what a curmudgeon is.

Chet


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 06:09 AM

I was of course referring to the dangers of repetitive strain injury.

mcmoo


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 06:07 AM

You could advise him that such overenergetic indulgence could have an adverse effect on his sex life!

Regards,

mcmoo


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Roger the skiffler
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 05:30 AM

My wife always lets me know when my "singing" goes from bad to abysmal. Also the sight of the rats coming out of their holes and throwing themselves on to the traps gives me a clue when it's time to shut up!:o)
RtS


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: The Duck of the Irish
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 12:53 AM

Easy! When he starts to get out of hand just stop playing and stare at him for a few seconds. Start again and stop. Don't say anything. It will kill a few songs but he will catch on.


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: JamesJim
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 11:49 PM

I didn't read this entire thread (shame on me!), but Willie-O's response caught my eye. A lot of years back,a member of our band made a video tape of a performance. I was new to the band and other than speaking in public (over a PA system), I had had little experience with a mic (performing). During previous performances, we had had conversations about getting too close to the mic - just general discussion, saying that the mics were "hot" and we didn't need to be right up on them. The conversation (certainly meant for my benefit) had apparently gone over my head, but when I heard and saw the video (my two buddies looked over at me as we were watching it, but didn't say a word), it was obvious that I was way too close. I was totally embarassed and apoligized to my friends. Recording a performance and playing it back sure did the trick for me. Maybe it will for you too! Jim


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Mikal
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 11:12 PM

Sheesh! Don't try to shove the drum up there! It will hurt your playing hand!

Look at the tipper, (Drumstick, for the unlettered.) Ever wonder why it has that shape?

Answers why we walk funny, too...

Mikal


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 10:36 PM

Geez Chet...You're a real curmudgeon ain'tcha'? LMAO...A Great Story!!!

Now I used this earlier, but you might stack up the bodhrans in a pile and USE THIS METHOD which will hopefully get your point across.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Mikal
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 10:24 PM

Thanks McGrath. I would love to hear it. Write the song. And those rare few of us, (the drummers that also sing and realize the damned "flat box thunder" is louder than us), will feel justified in wetting the "skin" to be a bit softer.

By the way, I don't wet the head normally on mine. It's a Remo Artificial head. Will probably last past the next ice age! But pouring a "Harp" on it looks good, and let's me get to ask for Guiness next time!

Mikal


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Mudjack
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 09:35 PM

When an honest and polite attempt has failed to cease the intrusiveness, then size up his back side and see if his arse will accomodate the propper placement of said instrument....and shove it where the sun can't shine. We all can screw up on occassion, but there cames a time when just "SHUT UP" ain't enough.
One on one and not to single him out with others present, ask him to lighten up on the hand-drum or not play at all on your selections, that it is disturbing and that you lose your concentration and can't keep in touch with your music.
Mudjack


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 09:22 PM

Peter, you have a good hmmmmm there.
I use to do a great deal of lecturing to the public. In the beginning, I was nervous and uncomfortable. If I lost my audience, it was because I had to be completely focused on my materials just to get through the lecture. As I became more comfortable with my presentations I was then able to be more aware of my audience and read their needs better. Maybe with musicians this kind of thing also comes with time and experience.

BB


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Subject: RE: Do you tell someone to shut up?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 09:05 PM

"The best players are hardly there, just a heartbeat in the background most of the time."

God, that's a great way of putting it. It's memorable, respectful and poetic. And true. It needs to be put in a song. If I write it I'll send it to you, Mikal.


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