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BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!

Charmion's brother Andrew 27 Sep 20 - 07:17 PM
Noreen 27 Sep 20 - 03:49 PM
Doug Chadwick 27 Sep 20 - 03:45 PM
Bonzo3legs 27 Sep 20 - 03:21 PM
gillymor 27 Sep 20 - 03:08 PM
meself 27 Sep 20 - 02:46 PM
Charmion 27 Sep 20 - 02:06 PM
gillymor 27 Sep 20 - 02:01 PM
meself 27 Sep 20 - 01:07 PM
gillymor 27 Sep 20 - 08:36 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Sep 20 - 06:29 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Sep 20 - 05:09 AM
Raggytash 27 Sep 20 - 04:57 AM
Mrrzy 26 Sep 20 - 11:01 PM
Noreen 26 Sep 20 - 08:23 PM
Backwoodsman 26 Sep 20 - 04:39 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Sep 20 - 03:37 PM
Dave the Gnome 26 Sep 20 - 03:29 PM
Bonzo3legs 26 Sep 20 - 02:45 PM
Charmion 26 Sep 20 - 02:31 PM
Dave the Gnome 26 Sep 20 - 02:12 PM
Bonzo3legs 26 Sep 20 - 11:01 AM
punkfolkrocker 26 Sep 20 - 10:45 AM
Bonzo3legs 26 Sep 20 - 10:28 AM
Charmion 26 Sep 20 - 10:12 AM
Dave the Gnome 26 Sep 20 - 07:35 AM
Bonzo3legs 25 Sep 20 - 01:37 PM
peteglasgow 25 Sep 20 - 08:46 AM
Bonzo3legs 24 Sep 20 - 07:57 AM
Charmion 23 Sep 20 - 09:59 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Sep 20 - 06:15 PM
Bonzo3legs 23 Sep 20 - 03:41 PM
Charmion's brother Andrew 23 Sep 20 - 03:12 PM
robomatic 23 Sep 20 - 03:02 PM
punkfolkrocker 23 Sep 20 - 01:47 PM
Charmion 23 Sep 20 - 01:40 PM
Bonzo3legs 23 Sep 20 - 01:26 PM
keberoxu 23 Sep 20 - 12:14 PM
punkfolkrocker 23 Sep 20 - 11:53 AM
meself 23 Sep 20 - 11:49 AM
Charmion 23 Sep 20 - 07:30 AM
Raggytash 23 Sep 20 - 07:22 AM
Bonzo3legs 23 Sep 20 - 06:01 AM
Raggytash 23 Sep 20 - 05:43 AM
Nigel Parsons 23 Sep 20 - 05:06 AM
Raggytash 23 Sep 20 - 04:55 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Sep 20 - 04:54 AM
Nigel Parsons 23 Sep 20 - 04:51 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Sep 20 - 04:47 AM
Nigel Parsons 23 Sep 20 - 04:42 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 07:17 PM

Bonzo does not appear to understand that the mettle that was present in our parents' generation, was present in ours who went to the Falklands, present in those who went to Iraq, and is still present in those who carry on with operations in Afghanistan. The proportion of "Nancy boys" is likely about the same now as it was 40 years ago when I was training soldiers. In countries like ours with all-volunteer armed forces, the suitable choose to join and the less than suitable (at least those with a modicum of self-knowledge) do not--and that's a good thing. It avoids wasting money on Queen's hard bargains.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Noreen
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 03:49 PM

See post of 27 Sep 20 - 03:21 PM. for a prime example of a straw man, as well as chicken hawkism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 03:45 PM

See post of 27 Sep 20 - 03:21 PM. for a prime example of chicken hawkism. Thank you, Bonz.

See also, the posts of:
20 Sep 20 - 06:31 AM;
23 Sep 20 - 06:01 AM;

and the opening post of:
17 Sep 20 - 04:38 PM;

which are word for word, the same.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 03:21 PM

During the invasion of South Georgia by Argentina, 22 Royal Marines took on an Argentine warship and put it out of action. That required balls, guts and tip top training - none of your so called "woke" Nancy boys there - a biffing was required and a biffing was done !!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 03:08 PM

I'll go with M-W and my own experience.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: meself
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 02:46 PM

I feel that my nitpickery adds understanding of the use and misuse of the term 'chicken hawk', thank you. You are free, of course, to add to your dissent.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 02:06 PM

The first figurative use I learned for “chicken hawk” was “pederast”.

The political sense, that of a warmonger eager to make other people serve their country, I associate with the later years of the Vietnam War, especially with respect to draft boards.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 02:01 PM

I've heard the term used to describe both types. Your nitpickery adds nothing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: meself
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 01:07 PM

With all due respect to Mirriam-Webster, I believe they've missed the mark slightly, but significantly, with their second definition of 'chicken hawk': the point of the personage in question being called 'chicken' is not that they haven't served in the military, but that they deliberately avoided serving when 'their country called'. So, for example, it would be inaccurate to call Obama a 'chicken hawk', while appropriate to call the bone-spur-ridden trump, in his more hawkish moments, a 'chicken hawk'.

Now back to our regular program.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 08:36 AM

From Merriam-Webster's:

Definition of chicken hawk

1 : a hawk that preys or is believed to prey on chickens
2 disparaging : a person who strongly supports or promotes a war or warlike policies but who has never served in the military


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 06:29 AM

That’s the only possible explanation, Dick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 05:09 AM

My friend’s brother, who served aboard one of the Type 21 Frigates (I forget which one) says that anyone who thinks the Falklands War was a ‘wizard wheeze’, or that the Argentinian forces were a ‘pushover’ obviously wasn’t there.

And why on Earth a fool is celebrating an event which resulted in the unnecessary deaths of ~1,000 young men is completely beyond my comprehension.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 04:57 AM

There is a truly wonderful song from Winter Wilson about the battle for Tumbledown Mountain it epitomises the futility of it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJGMT95QeZs


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 11:01 PM

I am reminded of this Phil Ochs song...


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Noreen
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 08:23 PM

The Falklands conflict lasted for 10 weeks, 2 April – 14 June 1982, so there are nearly two years to go before the 40th anniversary.
I hope this 'celebration' is not going to carry on for two years.

I remember it well as my cousin's new husband was on his way home on his final tour of duty on HMS Glamorgan, before starting a shore job as a newly married man. On their way home they received orders to divert to join the Task Force en route to the Falklands.
We heard on the news that the conflict was over, the day before we heard he had been killed.

All triumphalism is misplaced.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 04:39 PM

Good post, Kevin.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 03:37 PM

The war that ended the military dictatorship in the Argentine, and cemented into power Margarett destructive regime for a generation. Which country had the better outcome from the war?

What has always stuck in my throat is the hypocrisy of it. Two sets of islands at the other endof the world, the Falklands in the South Atlantic and the Chagos Islands in the Indian Ocean. Both controlled by Britain, aquired by the dubious procedure of landing there and declaring they owned the place. Squatted.

About 1000 people living in the Chagos Islands, on Diego Garcia. About 3000 in the Falklands.

In 1968 the British started to arrange to trade the islands to the USA as tenants so that they could turn Diego Garcia into an airbase. The inhabitants were duly rounded up and transported to a far away strange island, Mauritius, with which they had no connection.Their dogs just got shot. And the islanders never been allowed to return home, and repeated findings by courts that they had the right to do so have been cleverlly evaded by the UK government.

But when the Argentine regime decided to shortcut its longstanding ambition to reclaim the Falklands/Malvinas, after years of negotiation by just moving in (having been given what looked like a strong hint that the British would be OK about that, by the way they have just withdrawn naval support from the Falklands) the fate of these islanders was seen as a sacred duty. No shipping them off to St Helena to live in poverty.

The difference? The Falkland Islanders are White. There are potential minerals and oil in the seas around the Falklands. Argentina is a much poorer country than the USA and wasn't offering to pay. And a timely Patriotic War was a gamble worth taking to get a patriotic people on side and stave off a possible regime change (which was what the Generals also had in mind.)

i'd say the last of those was the crucial one. Together with the first.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 03:29 PM

So, we find the true Bonzo at last :-) You are quite right of course. You should be allowed to say what you want. Just like we should be allowed to show up what you say as the nonsensical jingoistic bollocks it really is


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 02:45 PM

Fuck you, I'll say just what I like!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 02:31 PM

Spot on, Dave.

‘Nuff said.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 02:12 PM

You may well know Argentina, Bonzo, but it is blatantly obvious you know nowt about the military, today's youth or how to compare the two. Sadly you started this thread about that very poor comparison and not Argentina. Maybe you should start one about a subject you actually understand.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 11:01 AM

Aha the Tango, in Calle Florida BA the male dancers take greasy hair into another dimension!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 10:45 AM

Bonz - You might be better informed on dinner parties and intercourse with 'Argies';
but that is nowhere near the same as killing them..

No matter how excited you get carried away with violent passion of the Tango..


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 10:28 AM

Have you ever been to Argentina Charmion? - I have many times. Do you know any Argentines? I do so I think that I am slightly better informed than you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 10:12 AM

Bonzo, surely you have figured out by now that it's not "all the same" to many people, and every one of them who has posted in this thread has demonstrated a wider knowledge and better understanding of the issues and events than you have.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 07:35 AM

I'm still no wiser as to what the actions of professional soldiers 40 years ago has to do with the youth of today.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Sep 20 - 01:37 PM

Well I'm not, if it's all the same to you!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: peteglasgow
Date: 25 Sep 20 - 08:46 AM

i'm really sick of this jingoistic, flag waving, tory war nonsense - i see the front of the sun today is on about the wars - glorious poppies. wonderful johnson. and all that. again. remembrance in september - no doubt the poppy shaming starts now. my opinion is the only way to remember war and to properly respect all the victims (inluding, bonzo, the 'woke' and the 'nancy boys and everyone else) is to talk about peace and never again. but they won't ever 'give peace a chance- just a dream some of us had' many folk love war and need to preserve capitalism and a thoroughly disgusting capitalist system


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Sep 20 - 07:57 AM

Possibly!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 09:59 PM

Yay Steve! What you said!


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 06:15 PM

Biffing means exposing to slaughter hundreds of young conscripts, drafted in by a vicious dictatorship, young lads who had no choices. Biffing could well be the most revolting euphemism ever invented.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 03:41 PM

Well I was never in the service and I say that the Royal Marines gave them a good biffing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 03:12 PM

During my time in the service, the verb "to biff" someone was "to buddy-fuck" them; in other words, it is to screw your mates figuratively. It is the sort of term that, if used other than in jest, could be construed in certain contexts as "provoking speeches" and punishable under the Code of Service Discipline.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 03:02 PM

...or pipefitters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 01:47 PM

"soldering..."..???...

..errrmm.. and even less disrespect if bonz'd been there soldiering...

..obviously, no disrespect to electricians...


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 01:40 PM

No, Bonzo. That word proves you do not understand what happened there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 01:26 PM

Sorry Charmion, a biffing was required and a biffing was done !!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 12:14 PM

There's a lyrics-added thread for an original song by Martin Carthy
titled Company Policy, which mentions
"a South Atlantic Company Store."

Presumably, a song that would be
neither written, nor sung, by someone
cheering on the Royal Marines?


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 11:53 AM

Too many lives were sacrificed for The Falklands.
It was a nasty little war, fought for squalid political reasons..

Our brave military personnel did their job well,
and deserve respect.
But their government leaders didn't, and still don't...

I might have a little less disrespect for bonz's provocative jingoistic gloating,
if he'd been there in person soldering,
rather than sat comfy back in dear old blighty watching it on his telly...


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: meself
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 11:49 AM

Naaa - he wants us to sputter and fume and express outrage at his cartoonish rant. As my old father would have said: "People like him give war a bad name!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 07:30 AM

I think Bonzo wants us to clap and cheer for the Marines, and chuck shade at a Young People Today.

I *like* today’s young people, who pay the taxes that fund my pension. I’m quite happy to buy a drink for any Leatherneck who strolls into my grid square, but that’s all.

And “biffing” — WTF? That’s straight out of the Boys’ Own Paper, and not at all appropriate for such a topic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 07:22 AM

Same post three times, flame-baiting

or complete lack of intelligence

or both.

I would suggest the latter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 06:01 AM

During the invasion of South Georgia by Argentina, 22 Royal Marines took on an Argentine warship and put it out of action. That required balls, guts and tip top training - none of your so called "woke" Nancy boys there - a biffing was required and a biffing was done !!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 05:43 AM

Just playing silly buggers as you frequently do Nigel ! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 05:06 AM

The Falkland Islands number 778 and MOST of them are uninhabited.
Two can play at being bloody pedantic.


Yes, but (generally) when referring to "The Falkland Islands" one is referring to the islands as a group, and the group is inhabited.

The British Isles are also inhabited, although some of the individual islands are not. The fact that some of the islands are uninhabited would not lead anyone to claim that "The British Isles are uninhabited".


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:55 AM

The Falkland Islands number 778 and MOST of them are uninhabited.

Two can play at being bloody pedantic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:54 AM

”And I don't sidestep your point that "those uninhabited islands are the subject of legal claims to ownership by the UK and Argentina". I treat it with the disdain it deserves. The Falklands are not 'uninhabited'.”

Unfortunately, in quoting you, I missed the important word ‘formerly’ - apologies for the mis-quote.

But the point still stands, regardless of your misplaced disdain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:51 AM

Jack Campin
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:06 AM
Thinking up legal excuses based on abstract "rights" for evicting people who have lived in the same place for their entire lives, or for generations, is the sort of shit that white America used to justify the Native American genocide and what the Zionists are doing to Palestine.
The people of the Falklands get to tell Argentina to fuck off if they want. Just like the people of Scotland get to tell Britain to fuck off.


Not quite how I would have phrased it, but Yes!


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:47 AM

Hmmmm, your career in the Diplomatic Corps didn’t last long then, Jack? ;-)

Nobody’s ‘thinking up legal excuses based on abstract “rights” for evicting people’ here - ideas are being thrown out for solving the very difficult and important question of the resolution of the ‘ownership’ claims of Argentina and the U.K. over The Falklands/Las Malvinas, a resolution that would stand the test of legality in international court, would preserve the security of the population, and would not result in the loss of more lives on top of the thousand or so lost in 1982.

Argentinian belligerence failed to bring a lasting solution last time, why on earth do you believe that belligerence on the part of the Islanders and/or the UK would bring a better result now? All it would achieve would be the hardening of attitudes on both sides, and drag the dispute on even further.

I seldom quote Churchill, but he was spot-on with his comment about “Jaw-jaw is always better than war-war”.


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Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:42 AM

Funny how you sidestepped my point that those uninhabited islands are the subject of legal claims to ownership by the UK and Argentina, and unlike the times when the New World, Australasia, etc. were being colonised, there exists today an international court of justice precisely for the purpose of settling legal disputes between countries. It would make far more sense, and would be infinitely more likely to produce an impartial result, if the question of whose claim took precedence was settled by the ICJ, rather than leaving it to the biases of a small group of settlers.

If Argentina had thought they could overthrow the status quo by an appeal to the ICJ they would have taken that route, rather than attempt an armed take-over. I would presume that an armed invasion to try to overthrow the established (since 1833) position would do nothing to make any subsequent appeal to the ICJ seem more reasonable.

And I don't sidestep your point that "those uninhabited islands are the subject of legal claims to ownership by the UK and Argentina". I treat it with the disdain it deserves. The Falklands are not 'uninhabited'.


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