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BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Bonzo3legs 18 Oct 20 - 06:25 AM
Bonzo3legs 18 Oct 20 - 06:25 AM
DMcG 18 Oct 20 - 05:33 AM
Backwoodsman 18 Oct 20 - 05:28 AM
DMcG 18 Oct 20 - 05:17 AM
Backwoodsman 18 Oct 20 - 04:20 AM
DMcG 18 Oct 20 - 03:30 AM
Dave the Gnome 18 Oct 20 - 03:08 AM
Nigel Parsons 17 Oct 20 - 12:53 PM
Dave the Gnome 17 Oct 20 - 07:31 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Oct 20 - 06:28 AM
Raggytash 17 Oct 20 - 06:23 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Oct 20 - 06:20 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Oct 20 - 05:54 AM
The Sandman 17 Oct 20 - 05:28 AM
The Sandman 17 Oct 20 - 05:26 AM
SPB-Cooperator 17 Oct 20 - 04:43 AM
The Sandman 16 Oct 20 - 05:10 PM
DMcG 16 Oct 20 - 04:43 PM
DMcG 16 Oct 20 - 04:42 PM
Nigel Parsons 16 Oct 20 - 03:33 PM
DMcG 16 Oct 20 - 01:38 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Oct 20 - 08:06 PM
Bonzo3legs 13 Oct 20 - 06:35 PM
mayomick 13 Oct 20 - 10:12 AM
mayomick 13 Oct 20 - 10:00 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Oct 20 - 03:23 PM
DMcG 12 Oct 20 - 03:22 PM
Nigel Parsons 12 Oct 20 - 02:43 PM
Backwoodsman 12 Oct 20 - 02:16 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Oct 20 - 02:04 PM
Dave the Gnome 12 Oct 20 - 12:22 PM
The Sandman 12 Oct 20 - 10:08 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Oct 20 - 07:10 AM
DMcG 12 Oct 20 - 05:42 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Oct 20 - 05:36 AM
Doug Chadwick 12 Oct 20 - 04:05 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Oct 20 - 12:17 PM
Bonzo3legs 10 Oct 20 - 11:14 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Oct 20 - 03:16 AM
Dave the Gnome 05 Oct 20 - 04:50 AM
Dave the Gnome 03 Oct 20 - 04:50 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Oct 20 - 03:30 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Oct 20 - 03:15 AM
punkfolkrocker 01 Oct 20 - 05:54 PM
Backwoodsman 01 Oct 20 - 05:25 PM
Dave the Gnome 01 Oct 20 - 05:24 PM
DMcG 01 Oct 20 - 05:09 PM
The Sandman 01 Oct 20 - 11:33 AM
Steve Shaw 30 Sep 20 - 08:15 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Oct 20 - 06:25 AM

politicians that is!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Oct 20 - 06:25 AM

and of course ALL labour polititians are open, ethical and honest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Oct 20 - 05:33 AM

Quite so, Backwoodsman, quite so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Oct 20 - 05:28 AM

I deliberately didn’t mention Hitler, DMcG, for obvious reasons. However, the rise of the Far Right in the UK, as well as the US, is reminiscent of 1930s Germany, and some of the tactics and practices being employed are undoubtedly similar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Oct 20 - 05:17 AM

We are all aware of the risks bring Hitler into threads like this, but I don't think that oversteps the mark, Backwoodsman. It is genuinely salient to look at what was happening around the time of the Enabling Act.

I have recently been reading a book called "They thought they were free: The Germans 1933-45", first published in 1955. The author is essentially a journalist, not a historian. So far I have only read the first part, which is events as seen through they eyes of ten relatively ordinary people: a local mayor, a policeman, a baker, a teenage schoolchild and so on. I am afraid I do see parallels, though fortunately I also see very substantial differences.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Oct 20 - 04:20 AM

What we are seeing now is precisely what the people of Germany saw in the 1930s. A government spreading its own propaganda, making itself unaccountable, demonising minorities - ‘the other’ - and actively creating divisions, blaming others for their own actions and inactions, practicing the Goebbels philosophy of repeating lies so frequently that no matter how big are the lies, in the people’s minds they become truth.

And we tell ourselves it could never happen here, yet we have evidence of the success of the government’s brainwashing tactics on this forum and, indeed, in this thread. Well worth remembering that, in 1930s Germany, it didn’t begin with gas-chambers, it began with ruthless politicians determined to pursue their agenda whatever the cost.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Oct 20 - 03:30 AM

I am not sure we now or ever actually expected politicians to be open, ethical and honest, Dave. What we certainly did expect was that they should be held to account when they were not. The whole rationale for Freedom of Information Acts wherever they exist is to expose the occasions politicians ae not, and to hold them to account when that happens. Ditto the various ways powers are separated.

What we have discovered over the the past few years - and the 2016 referendum is as good a starting point as any - is how weak the UK system is on holding politicians to account. When individuals and governments can be found to be in contempt of Parliament and they basically shrug and say 'So what?' the accountability is failing. T When the question of whether supreme court judges in the UK should be subject to political veto is seriously considered, the separation of powers is failing. When Parliament itself votes to have no say in ministers decisions on trade (for example), the representation of the people is failing.

Personally, I regard these things as ultimately more significant than the economic impact of Brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Oct 20 - 03:08 AM

Of course it does, Nigel. People expect their politicians to be open, ethical and honest. Boris proves himself to be none of these things every time he opens his mouth. Not being able to say how many children he has sired is a prime example. Blaming the other party when negotiations go wrong is another and, in this case, worse still because it affects the lives of millions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 12:53 PM

Any discussion of UK future trading with EU has no correlation with what's happening within the UK. Any attempt to compare the two is a non sequitur.
Similarly, any discussion about Boris Johnson's children (legitimate or otherwise) has F*** A** (very little) to do with the political discussion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 07:31 AM

Boris want to change the conditions of trading with the EU. It's the EU's fault that talks have stalled.

Boris wants to put Greater Manchester in tier 3. Andy Burnham says that to do that they need more funding. It's Andy Burnham's fault if the contagion increases.

Anyone seeing a pattern here? Not only is Johnson a pathological liar but he also doesn't understand that negotiations are a two way thing. I suppose he was brought up to believe that if you shout, stamp your feet, throw the toys out of the pram and blame everyone but yourself, you get your own way.

I pity his children. However many there are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 06:28 AM

Never thought of that, Raggy! Hmmmmm..... ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 06:23 AM

Conversely Backwoodsman it might be his own opinion and he is just echoing Bonzo!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 06:20 AM

That was for The Sandman...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 05:54 AM

Eck, if you’re quoting, why not italicise the piece you’re quoting and put it in inverted commas? Then your posts might make a bit more sense.


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Subject: RE: BS: Boris for the high jump
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 05:28 AM

The Sunday Times reports she went for the job at Tech City in 2012, weeks after Mr Johnson started bidding for City Hall to take control of the same quango.

The allegations adds to mounting questions Mr Johnson faces over his links with the businesswoman - due to appear on Good Morning Britain tomorrow.

He has already been accused of granting public funding to Ms Arcuri, whose flat he's said to have visited "several times".

She reportedly received £10,000 in business cash from an organisation Mr Johnson was responsible for as London Mayor in 2013.

And Ms Arcuri, who was in her 20s at the time, was also allegedly given special treatment to attend jet-set trade missions led by the future PM, according to a Sunday Times investigation.

Mr Johnson has now been referred to the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), and must provide details of their relationship by Tuesday to a summons from the London Assembly.

If he fails to do so he could face a penalty.


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Subject: BS: Boris for the high jump
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 05:26 AM

new allegations about Boris and pole vaulter from Peckham.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 04:43 AM

EU are not making demands, the British lowlife are. All EU are doing is stating what the conditions are for a trade deal outside of the single market. If UK wants to trade with EU the accept EU conditions.

The trouble with people who support leave is that they are so arrogant that they would try to join a folk club and demand the right to change the club rules to their own benefit.

Losing our rights as EU citizens is another matter, and the EU withdrawing our freedom of Movement and benefits of the single market as individuals' is nothing but vindictiveness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Oct 20 - 05:10 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit
From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 22 Aug 20 - 03:32 AM

I think there is already a thread on the virus, Dick. It is a worldwide issue after all. quote
Brexit is a world wide issue too, it aff4cts the usa china ne zealand australia furthermore the whole world
Subject: BS: Greatest UK PM born 95 years ago!!
From: Bonzo3legs - PM
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 06:35 PM

On this day, 95 years ago, was born one of the finest Prime Ministers ever to lead this or any country - a woman of courage, integrity and wisdom who inspired people around the world and who advanced the cause of freedom: Margaret Thatcher. God bless hr quote.
a matter of opinion, not a fact, other than it was her birthday


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Oct 20 - 04:43 PM

15th. Sorry, the inevitable typo.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Oct 20 - 04:42 PM

People can say that if they like. But on 2nd September Barnier said the end of October is the deadline, and on the 7th Johnson said it was the 14th.

Whether Barnier said it earlier I haven't checked, but that 2nd September speech is available online.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Oct 20 - 03:33 PM

Others might say that the EU, having failed to make the UK cave in to their demands, is extending their previous 'definite deadline'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Oct 20 - 01:38 PM

Yet again, it seems Boris Johnson is saying yes, we really really will walk away from the trade deal talks, we mean it and this time are so so serious.

But not actually quite doing it.

Looks like it will be no deal at the end of October on the EU timetable at this rate. Unless the PM actually concedes enough to satisfy the EU, with probably them giving him a fig leaf to exalt over.


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Subject: RE: BS: Greatest UK PM born 95 years ago!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 08:06 PM

My father-in-law, a mighty Somerset man and a far better person than Thatcher, would also have been 95 today. He died ten years ago. I loved him to bits. He would probably have been ashamed had he known about the coincidence.

Funny how it goes. Mrs Steve's lifelong best friend has her birthday today (we had her round for tea and a chocolate brownie this afternoon, and she's coming round for my lamb stew on Saturday night), as does my first fiancée (she had a lucky escape), as does one of my best mates from school in the sixties. Nothing on the 12th, 14th or any other day anywhere near. Weird!


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Subject: BS: Greatest UK PM born 95 years ago!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 06:35 PM

On this day, 95 years ago, was born one of the finest Prime Ministers ever to lead this or any country - a woman of courage, integrity and wisdom who inspired people around the world and who advanced the cause of freedom: Margaret Thatcher. God bless her!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: mayomick
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 10:12 AM

sorry for the thread creep, carry on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: mayomick
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 10:00 AM

"meringue, cream and strawberries" ? It’s more likely to be a choice between jam roly poly and custard and apple pie and custard .That’s from what I saw when doing some plumbing in a Whitehall club a long time ago ........... Maybe they were from Harrow though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 03:23 PM

The virus is far more prevalent in large conurbations and deprived areas, Nigel. 'Tis true that some constituencies in those areas were stupid enough (or at least contained a lot of stupid enough people) to return a Tory. Once their pubs have been shut (for beer at least) for a few months, their jobs have disappeared and a few more thousand of them have died, the time may well become ripe for the feckless Johnson to look to his laurels...

Unless, of course, the almost equally feckless "Dishy Rishi" has taken over...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 03:22 PM

Something like that, Nigel. But if it was exactly like there there would be a little table somewhere saying when the cases per thousand was such and such then you would be at level N. Since there isn't - so far - then there is some margin of judgement, and that could be partly political.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 02:43 PM

I thought the lowermost tier was for those areas showing the lowest rate of virus infection. The areas where, whether by luck or good judgement, people have avoided spreading the virus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 02:16 PM

Gawrsh , who’da thunk it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 02:04 PM

Seems that the areas most likely to vote Tory next time have been left in the lowermost tier.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 12:22 PM

Of as someone cleverly said the other day, an Eton mess is supposed to be meringue, cream and strawberries. Not what the government do :-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 10:08 AM

what a mess


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 07:10 AM

”But it is almost certain the MPs will vote against amendments to protect the standards.

Such is taking back control.”


Those of us with more than half a brain knew exactly what the BrexShit-Bunch’s ‘Take Back Control’ meant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 05:42 AM

Today's main Brexit event is the Agriculture Bill returning to Parliament.

The story so far:

In December 2019, all Conservative ministers stood on a manifesto that included maintain the UK food standards (p 57 for those interested.)

When the bill first came to the House, it included nothing to protect the standards. Amendments to introduce those commitments were proposed, but voted against.

The bill passed to the Lords, who wrote such protective measures into the bill.

It has now returned to the House of Commons to be voted on this afternoon. The Government has declared one of the amendments inapplicable of a technicality and it was reported in either the Times or the Telegraph (I forget which), that Dominic Cummings "instructed ministers" not to accept the amendments.

The last poll of the public suggested 94% want the standards preserved. I know polls are very unreliable, but it is fair to conclude, I think, that the majority want the standards maintained. The RSPCA do. The NFU do. The environmental groups do. Consumer bodies like "Which?" do. Some supermarkets have said they will not stock chlorinated chicken.

But it is almost certain the MPs will vote against amendments to protect the standards.

Such is taking back control.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 05:36 AM

Spot on Doug.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 04:05 AM

With 1.4 million employed by the NHS and 1.6 million in social care, 414 baubles means that 99.99% were ignored.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Oct 20 - 12:17 PM

It would be even more wonderful if they paid them properly. Gongs don’t pay the bills.


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Subject: BS: Birthday Honours
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Oct 20 - 11:14 AM

Wonderful honours list which includes 414 names of NHS and social care staff, fundraisers, shopworkers and drivers, etc. - the unsung heroes of the pandemic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Oct 20 - 03:16 AM

The usual witty and insightful review, by John Crace in the Guardian, of the Prime Minister’s woeful performance presenting his speech to the virtual Tory Party Conference.

Let’s hope Crace is right, that the former Labour voters who allowed themselves to be conned into voting Tory at the 2019 election have indeed ‘grown up’ and realised what a bunch of twonks they elected, and that they give Johnson a good kick up his fat, bone-idle, clueless arse next time (assuming he lasts that long, and his own party haven’t given him the push before then).


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Oct 20 - 04:50 AM

From yesterday's "Observer". I have not linked the piece as it only says the same thing in different ways but I found this section hilarious.

In the latest ConservativeHome survey of what activists think of the cabinet, the prime minister comes in 24th out of 25. The education secretary is the only cabinet member with a worse approval rating. That’s the verdict of Tory members on their own prime minister: “not quite as useless as Gavin Williamson”.

:D


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 04:50 AM

On reflection it might have been Freddie Star. But I don't think he ate any hamsters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 03:30 AM

Shame she didn’t smother the bugger with a pillow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 03:15 AM

Davidson once slept on my mother-in-law's sofa.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 05:54 PM

The neo fascists must obviously now regard posh luvvie fox
as a more publicly acceptable mainstream recruitment poster boy
than football hooligan robinson ever could be...

Though they are still keeping bitter old shite comedian jim davidson
as a back up...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 05:25 PM

Not my cup o’tea either, Mac. But hey, it takes all sorts I guess!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 05:24 PM

I much prefer Emilia


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 05:09 PM

It is a matter of personal taste, but compared to Tennant, Sim, Scott and others, I don't rate Lawrence Fox much as an actor. Nor compared to some others in the very extensive Fox acting clan.

I would seek him out for potitical advice, either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Oct 20 - 11:33 AM

i have never heard of lawrence fox,i have heard of other actors, but
i am not interested in their views on anything other than acting.
for example john cleese a well known actor probably has different views to lawrence fox, so what, why should i listen to fox rather than cleese, just because an accpuntant from croydon tells me too.
who exactly do you think you are, telling people we should listen to some actor called fox,rather than listening to john cleese or glenda jackson, or any other actor


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 20 - 08:15 PM

Brilliant, pfr. I salute ye (and the missus) Sir!


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