BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19

Subject: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 11:25 AM

Apparently it kills, or can kill, your sense of smell:

https://www.boston.com/news/health/2020/03/23/coronavirus-sense-of-smell/amp

Also Ohio is canceling "nonessential abortions" -- what on earth is a cosmetic abortion?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 11:32 AM

It is elective surgury.

My sense of smell is off the charts. I'd hate to lose it.

The oldest Congress of US Senators in history is in grave danger

3 are down already

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 11:35 AM

https://www.quorum.us/data-driven-insights/the-115th-congress-is-among-the-oldest-in-history/175/

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 12:15 PM

Almost two thirds of critically ill coronavirus patients are overweight and 37% are under 60, NHS audit reveals

    Excess weight against chest makes it harder for muscles to draw in deep breath
    Weak immune system allows COVID-19 to spread to lungs and cause pneumonia
    These two factors may explain why two thirds of ICU coronavirus patients obese
    Comes as coronavirus death toll in UK rises to 281 and infections sit at 5,600

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 12:37 PM

And in the general population?

"In the 2017 survey, it found that 28.7% of adults in England are obese and a further 35.6% are overweight, making a total of 64.3% who are either overweight or obese. 2 Of obese adults, around one in eight are morbidly obese (3.6% of all adults)"

Or almost two thirds. So the correlation of the virus and being overweight is uncertain at best.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 01:16 PM

You may be right, after all it   was the daily wail reporting. However the statistic is accurate, as is the explanation for the obese requiring intubation. The factor to carry away is that having the virus is a heightened risk if overweight

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 01:21 PM

But that is exactly the factor you cannot carry away. In *any* random sample of people from England you would expect about two thirds to be overweight. In so far as the figures show anything, they suggest being overweight has no bearing at all on your chances of survival. Of course, a formal analysis would be required, but the prima facie evidence suggests there is no connection.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 01:24 PM

It matters, by the way, because we don't want people thinking "I am not overweight so my risk is lower." As far as we can tell so far, it isn't.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 06:36 PM

best case worst case scenario nyt

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 04:58 AM

Obesity carries inherant heightened health risks:
Heart disease and stroke.
High blood pressure.
Diabetes.
Cancer.
Gallbladder disease and gallstones.
Osteoarthritis.
Gout.
Breathing problems, such as sleep apnea

Many are associated with increased mortality from Covid-19
In Italy, 76.1% of patients who died from COVID-19 had hypertension, or high blood pressure.
One-third of COVID-19 patients who died in Italy had heart disease.
About one-quarter of people who died from the coronavirus in Italy had atrial fibrillation.
Diabetes was the second most common condition among COVID-19 patients who died: 35.5% had the illness.
Of those who died in Italy, 20.3% had active cancer in the past five years.
The study found that 18% of people who died had chronic kidney disease.
Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease — or lung diseases such as chronic emphysema and bronchitis — was present in 13.2% of the people who died.
People who previously had a stroke made up 9.6% of COVID-19 patients who died in Italy.
In Italy, 6.8% of COVID-19 patients who died had dementia.Chronic liver disease was the 10th most common underlying condition.
My take on this is that if you are overweight you likely have one or more underlying conditions that rank you with a higher risk.
Statistically if you are obese youa re more likely to die.Reducing weight reduces the risk eg less pressure on the heart, perhaps no more diabetes (if type 2 etc.).................
*Type 2 = remission not cure it might be more accurate to say
My source article insisted on mixing up percentages and fractions- not me.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:36 AM

Again, Iains, you quote all those numbers without saying how common they are in the general population.

No one is saying being overweight or obese is good for you, or is without risks. But as yet there is insufficient evidence that you are more liable to become critically ill with coronavirus because of it. That evidence may arrive in time.

But for the moment: EVERYONE should act as if they are as susceptible as everyone else. Not developing the idea that 'that group is at greater risk than I am'. It is no exaggeration to say that attitude could cost lives.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 06:14 AM

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/which-groups-are-most-at-risk-from-the-coronavirus/


https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/03/22/819846180/study-calculates-just-how-much-age-medical-conditions
Statistically if you are obese you have underlying conditions
underlying conditions make you more vulnerable to covid-19
How many of those conditions are created,enhanced by obesity.
No one argues that cigarette smoking is good for you anymore!
Why is that?
Perhaps the same mindset should apply to obesity(apart from that created by medical conditions)
The reason 60$ of people on ventilators are obese is because gluttony
has a downside.
original report below.

https://www.icnarc.org/About/Latest-News/2020/03/22/Report-On-196-Patients-Critically-Ill-With-Covid-19   (open it up and extract the document inside)

Oxford University research found that moderate obesity, which is now common, reduces life expectancy by about 3 years, and that severe obesity, which is still uncommon, can shorten a person's life by 10 years. This 10 year loss is equal to the effects of lifelong smoking.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:11 AM

I haven't heard anything, in spite of being inundated with Coronavirus news like everyone else, that loss of smell or taste are symptoms of Coronavirus. As for acid environments, the pH up your nose as you inhale virus particles, or in your eyes or mouth, is quite likely to be the much same as everyone else's. I know you like to be different and stand out from the crowd, but I might suggest you stick to known facts when it comes to this issue. It's worrying enough without rumour-mongers putting their oar in.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:27 AM

Well I did just find this:

"The group wants doctors worldwide to tell their patients to isolate themselves for seven days if they begin to lose their sense of smell or taste, even if they do not have any other COVID-19 symptoms, The New York Times reported. Losing those senses is also a frequent symptom of the common cold, another, milder form of coronavirus.


RELATED: Here’s How to Tell If That Sneeze Is Coronavirus, the Flu or Just a Cold..."

Either you're a sucker who believes everything, or you can take cod-science with a pinch of salt. I mean, when you know that most colds are not caused by coronaviruses and that sneezing is not a symptom of Covid-19, would you believe anything else in the article? Losing your sense of smell happens when you get a cold or other upper respiratory tract infection when you already have the other miserable symptoms. Stick to the dry cough and fever is my advice...not that anyone should listen to my advice...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:29 AM

The American Academy of Otolaryngology posted on its website this week that the amount of anecdotal evidence of anosmia, hyposmia (reduced ability to smell), and dysgeusia (reduced sense of taste) is significant enough that they are added to the list of screening tools for possible infection.

ENT surgeons in the UK also issued a statement urging that anosmia should be categorized as an important symptom that may indicate infection in an otherwise asymptomatic carrier, allowing clinicians at COVID-19 clinics to quickly rule out or confirm this subtle symptom.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:32 AM

I can easily persuade myself that my sense of smell isn't quite as good as it was yesterday. Let's stick to the dry cough and fever.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:42 AM

When the asymoptomatic are totally unknown in the population and testing is not general it makes sense to use every tool you can. Were this not the case Doctors would not say:
It is significant enough that they are added to the list of screening tools for possible infection.

Cod are best left in the sea I say - the stocks need to recover after EU depradations.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 09:00 AM

No abortions are elective, though. They are needed, not wanted.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 09:36 AM

Mrrzy I understand yet there are meaningful semantics on each side.
owzat for diplomacy? Unlike elective cosmetic surgury it is somthing that can't be postponed.

There are 4 distinct colds caused by a corona varient.

Rhinovirus: This bunch is most active in early fall, spring, and summer. They cause 10%-40% of colds. You'll feel plenty miserable when you catch one, but the good news is they rarely make you seriously sick

Coronavirus. These tend to do their dirty work in the winter and early spring. The coronavirus is the cause of about 20% of colds. There are more than 30 kinds, but only three or four affect people.

RSV and parainfluenza. These viruses cause 20% of colds. They sometimes lead to severe infections, like pneumonia, in young children.



Starbucks will pay employees for 30 days no matter what.


The Stock market has hit bottom and is now becoming a buying opportunity. butcha gotta bee quick.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 09:47 AM

We would agree that pandemic Corona has now become the #1 cold symptom virus n'est pas.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 09:56 AM

From WebMD:

"There are more than 200 [viruses]that can lay you low.

It's likely that someday you'll have a close encounter with one of these types:

Rhinovirus
Coronavirus
RSV and parainfluenza

There are also a lot of viruses that doctors haven't identified. About 20%-30% of colds in adults are caused by these "unknown" bugs."

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 10:43 AM

Elon Musk is producing respirators. Some 3D printers are capable of doing so as well.

While Trump wants isolation to end as soon as Monday for the sake of the economy there is not a damn thing he can do about it. Its up to govenors and mayors.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 10:58 AM

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how you objectively assess whether someone's taste or smell has changed between not having coronavirus (when you wouldn't have thought of asking them about it) and having coronavirus. Leading questions, anyone? At least you can hear someone's cough and measure their temperature...The last thing we need is false positives.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 11:08 AM

"We would agree that pandemic Corona has now become the #1 cold symptom virus n'est pas."

No we wouldn't. The coronavirus that's causing this pandemic doesn't give you common cold symptoms. Stick to what we actually know.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 11:21 AM

no matter the POV won't save lives.


Trump to NYC "FUCK YOU" I'm keeping ventilators in Federal stock pile

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 11:41 AM

A couple of days ago "#presidentcuomo" was trending on Twitter. I don't know about him being president, but he's sure fulfilling the role Trump SHOUD be assuming. His behavior in this crisis will hopefully wake some of his idiot followers up.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 12:50 PM

You can only notice your own sense of smell, unless your roommate suddenly can't tell the milk is off.

No olympics.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 12:55 PM

It really isn’t helpful when the combed-over Orange-Utan currently infesting the White House spreads false information.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 12:59 PM

Since networks have dropped Trump's corona task force which turned into an election rally, so now FOX has an exclusive task force Trump town hall.
Dr. Fauci the world leading infectious disease expert has been REPLACED !

In his stead is the great and powerful Dr. OZ who plays a doctor on TV.    no shit.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 01:56 PM

I can't find any indication that Fauci has been replaced by Dr.Oz.
Is this another detour from reality?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 04:23 PM

India has shut down.

Texas has joined Ohio in banning cosmetic abortions, whatever they are.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:04 PM

Interesting article on superforecasting and how it likely shaped Britain's response. It is not often the Express is worth quoting but I have not seen this information elsewhere.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1259539/coronavirus-uk-lockdown-cases-deaths-boris-johnson-dominic-cummings-spt

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:08 PM

Gillymor,
this appears to be another Donuel satire;

Mr. Fauci spoke to the New York Daily News
protesting against the mutterings
about Fauci's absence from Trump's press conference Monday.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:12 PM

The Fox exclusive Trump Town Hall in the rose garden, had Dr Oz for questions, I watched it, they had no other Doctors. What is this detour from reality propoganda. You're the one from Texas where UN conspiracy theories are born. I'm from the beltway where reality goes to die..
As for the Task force with j kushner, who never appears, I don't know.

I am on a Fauci watch later today

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:23 PM

Anyone else missing the little things like a haircut, dentist, pancakes, chinese food, 7-11, WaWa, Subway...?,

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:24 PM

More good common sense from Texas

I figured Fauci's days were numbered, nobody upstages the blob and besides, highly competent, truth-telling, professionals aren't welcome in his administration.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:46 PM

Fauci is back right behind Trump in his fart vector.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:50 PM

btw, Fauci is on stage with Twit for the CV task force briefing taking place at this moment and, good news, it will all be over by Easter and the churches will be full and it will be beautiful. This dude's elevator doesn't go to the top floor.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:54 PM

Hitler would have loved manipulating a pandemic. I think Trump has been drinking liquid luck. Trump argued at his Town Hall how trading old decrepid lives for the economy is practicly a patriotic thing to do.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:58 PM

There is one senior citizen I can think of whose demise would greatly benefit this country and the world.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 06:17 PM

Watching NBC on broadcast TV and whitehouse.gov on the laptop. From my vantage point, the television feed is about ten minutes AHEAD of the White House feed. Is the delay I'm experiencing via the internet or is the white house putting a delay on its own feed?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 06:22 PM

NPR is even ahead of the TV feed.

I suspect each of us has a dark list we will not say aloud regarding the Covid 19 affliction.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 06:28 PM

I think my laptop internet feed was slow not because of a white house delay. Hitting 'refresh' changed the apparent time lag each time.

At least Dr. Fauci is back and still calling the believable shots. Trump looks as usual, like he's a big dumb face on a stick that is trying to control its expression to look serious and like it knows what's going on.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 08:07 PM

I mentioned it once before but it looks like this finding is real.
Men are twice as likly to die of Covid 19 than women. !!!!!!
I don't believe in vengeful wrath of god crap but it looks like older men have a target on their back.'

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 08:32 PM

That is a very premature conclusion. It may apply so far to Italy and China but not elsewhere. The majority in South Korea, very likely the country that monitors the best, is only very slightly skewed towards males. It's also worth noting that 48% of Chinese men smoke and just 2% of Chinese women. And it is a respiratory tract infection after all. You need to dig deeper before blurting out your simplistic claims.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 04:21 AM

Gender disparities are seen in South Korea as well, where men make up almost 62 percent of cases, and once an infection takes hold, it is 89 percent more likely to be fatal in men.

https://www.labroots.com/trending/microbiology/17118/susceptible-covid-19-women

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30526-2/fulltext

A still evolving story

In Italy 23% smoke,28% men, in the UK 15%
Italy has an older population.
Itally has greater resistance to antibiotics than the rest of Europe. This does not help when secondary respiratory infections occur.
Professor Walter Ricciardi, Scientific Adviser to Italy’s Minister of Health, reports, “On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three.”

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 04:24 AM

Do those Chinese women inhale the men's smoke though Steve? Passive smoking. And from what I've heard on TV, the air pollution in the more industrial parts of China is dire.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mayomick
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 05:16 AM

I don't want to sound non-alarmist but .......... https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR1wK8PJ-yDvpa3DH-GGJ_3CRP6AhnJBd_I_agfZ33ML_0ewQ7P40AvcwSw
anyone ?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mayomick
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 05:27 AM

click click https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR1wK8PJ-yDvpa3DH-GGJ_3CRP6AhnJBd_I_agfZ33ML_0ewQ7P40AvcwSw

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 05:38 AM

Did anyone see the film footage of the London underground yesterday? There was also a news item on construction work in the city. As most of this construction seems to be non essential would it not make sense to call a halt to it?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 05:39 AM

The finding is still a mystery. The leading conjecture is that men engage in life long risky behavior perhaps as simple as drinking and smoking.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mayomick
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 05:47 AM

there are sex differences in longevity in species other than humans Female mammals are usually the longer-lived sex: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4932837/

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mayomick
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 06:18 AM

"In humans, our cells contain different chromosomes, depending on sex. Females have two X chromosomes while males have an X and a Y. The theory is that the extra X in women has a protective effect against harmful mutations and that this holds true in other species"

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52007780

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 08:07 AM

Cloroquine (anti-malarial) doesn't work after all, and is in a brand name of aquarium cleaner that idiots are eating.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 08:20 AM

Ih yeah

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 08:20 AM

Oops, meant oh yeah, and Prince Charles.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 12:02 PM

Just announced on BBC News, a 21 year old woman with no underlying medical issues has died from Covid-19 in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 12:28 PM

Whether its conjecture or false information, with no current cure or treatmnt except for forced oxygen, people will get desperate.

I can even see myself gobblimg aspirin and musinex and zithromax and penicillin even if I know there is no proof it would work.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 03:25 PM

Dave the Gnome.
Yes, it might make sense to stop (unnecessary) construction work. But, many construction workers are self-employed sub-contractors who don't know yet what provision the government will make for them. As such I can understand them wishing to continue working.
I was a civil servant, in an office which is currently still open. I'm so glad I retired!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 04:16 PM

Jackson Browne has it.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 04:21 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/25/coronavirus-patients-do-not-resucitate/

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 04:55 PM

The CVS pharmacy refused to sell me the 90 day insulin prescription on 3 consecutive days. Today they had it but reduced the prescription to 28 days at a 3000% price increase. I hope this is not being done across the board to everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 26 Mar 20 - 08:20 AM

Donuel:
Amazon announced its $1 billion acquisition of PillPack in June, sending shares of retail pharmacy companies like CVS Health, Rite Aid and Walgreens plummeting. ... The company said it is licensed to ship prescriptions to all states except Hawaii and can fill schedule III, IV and V medications.Apr 24, 2019

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 26 Mar 20 - 08:25 AM

Something else you could not make up. From Guido as well.
Hilarious!

A Democrat in support of Boris the Bountiful


https://order-order.com/2020/03/26/sanders-praises-sunak/

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 20 - 08:44 AM

Semi truck trailers are being used to stack bodies outside hospitals in NYC.

The great escape from NYC has probably caused an infection near you.

Montana has the best numbers with under one thousand infections.

Trump is trying to sue TV stations that have ads showing his diminishd capacity. They broadcast his own 'words'

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:12 AM

Boris!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:28 AM

Ok to eat meat on Fridays dduring Lent!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:35 AM

Meat eating in Lent
It seems that many bishops are issuing dispensations for this at the moment.
The above example is from New Jersey, but a search for "Meat in Lent" via Google news will find many examples.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:35 AM

They say Boris has it. I hope he is safe and stays well but I am sure I am not the only one who thought "is this yet another of his populist ploys?".

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:45 AM

I am sure I am not the only one who thought "is this yet another of his populist ploys?".

I have read that a lot of times elsewhere already, so you are not. It shows how depressingly low our trust of politicians has got that the thought even occurs to us.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 10:50 AM

The coronavirus that's causing this pandemic doesn't give you common cold symptoms

Of the many things that give you a cold, coronaviridae are included. There are 5 coronaviruses that affect humans (many many more that affect other mammals), three are more serious, MERS, SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV2.

For all practical purposes the difference between a cold and 'flu is severity. The symptoms are better described as a syndrome, you may not get all of them. Especially if you caught a whiff of SARS-CoV the first time.

Musk may have done a few stupid things, but he ain't stupid when it comes to seeing a need and driving a huge thick wedge through it. And if riding the publicity was his worst vice - we can tolerate that. Surely.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 11:13 AM

*And* the British health minister.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 01:04 PM

"For all practical purposes the difference between a cold and 'flu is severity."

Absolutely not the case. Unless you're talking about a cold and man flu. The two illnesses are quite distinct in speed of onset, symptoms and severity. I've had flu five times in my life. No runny or blocked-up nose, no sneezing. Aching limbs, tender skin all over, fever, nausea, severe headache, unable to get out of bed, utter exhaustion. If you're lucky. A dose of flu can down you in an hour from your feeling just fine.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 07:22 PM

God Save the Queen (seriously, she met with Boris earlier in March. Hopefully, this was before he shook the hands of Covid patients).

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 07:28 PM

Only 30 people tested positive at work out of 32,000 employees.
It is a big place with its own power plant, waste disposal and fire department.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:10 PM

Or... Maybe not:

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Mar 20 - 08:11 PM

https://slate.com/technology/2020/03/coronavirus-sense-of-smell-nytimes-fact-check.html

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: leeneia
Date: 28 Mar 20 - 09:46 PM

The newspaper had a disturbing report yesterday. Child-abuse reports in Kansas and Missouri are down 50% from the usual, because many reports come from schools, and schools are not in session.

I have no doubt that all parts of the world where schools are closed are seeing the same thing.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 03:20 AM

The UK government are sending a letter to every household in the land. WTF? Putting strain on the already overstretched postal service and increasing the risk of spreading the virus. I have just read it online. It says nothing we don't already know.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:31 AM

Last week I went to Bude Morrisons once and Holsworthy Waitrose once (sounds like I'm doing too much shopping, but I'm also helping out older friends who are self-isolating). The precautions being taken to control customer numbers, distancing, queuing in the car parks and checkout monitoring were exemplary at both. Waitrose allowed just twenty in the store at any one time and only twenty trolleys were in use, each of which was sanitised between customers. Both shops had signs up everywhere and there were frequent announcements over the PA. Well I went to Bude Lidl yesterday afternoon. Following the visit, I sent the following email to Lidl's head office:

When I visited this store today, there were hardly any measures in place to protect staff and customers. There was no control of customers entering. There was no sanitisation of baskets and trolleys. There were marks on the floor at the tills (nowhere else) but there was no supervision. There were no signs up in the shop. The narrow aisles meant that customers passing each other were far too close together, and many customers were simply not complying with the 2-metre rule. The protection of staff at checkouts was virtually non-existent. My visit to the store, for the purpose of shopping for a couple over 70 who are self-isolating, was most unnerving, and I won't be visiting the store again. My experience was in stark contrast to two other stores in my area, where very responsible controlling of customers and careful sanitisation were being carried out, and in both of which careful controlling of checkout queues was being carried out. I simply couldn't understand the wild-west approach to the crisis that seems to be prevailing at this store. I hope you will take this message seriously and take prompt action to do the right thing. Thank you.
Steve Shaw

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 07:14 AM

We went to Morrisons yesterday Steve (one out in the sticks, with a mainly elderly clientele) and were very impressed with their arrangements. Supervision of distancing outside and inside the shop, strict control of queues at the tills, screens put up to protect the till staff, everyone assiduously keeping their distance. Our trolley was wiped over and disinfected by a lady in a mask at the door. Most commendable.
However, I read on Mumsnet yesterday that Lidl are not bothering particularly, as you say, and should be avoided at all costs.
Are people completely daft? It's blooming obvious that these measures should be strictly put in place.
We got some extra supplies for a poor young woman in our village who has a sick child of two and is alone. She has little money and we're all supporting her. We left our offerings on her doorstep, knocked and drove away.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 09:12 AM

https://covidnearyou.org/

Cool and informative map.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: G-Force
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 09:17 AM

I suppose you get what you pay for. Pile'em high, sell 'em cheap, kill 'em off.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 09:19 AM

It might be cool and informative to you, but I can't get past that stupid Captcha page in spite of four attempts to spot bears in extremely indistinct photos. So bugger it.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 12:05 PM

Weird. I had no trouble getting in at first but now there are no data.

Interesting article on why no ventilators:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/business/coronavirus-us-ventilator-shortage.html

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 05:16 PM

I think Boris Johnson should have recommended masks & should not be asking posties to deliver his letters.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:32 PM

we all need to wear masks or some face covering. make our own so we are not accused of robbing them from nurses. it should be mandatory. it would slow down the spread. there is research. google it.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:44 PM

Most masks don't work, except as a money-spinner for spivs. A false sense of security isn't exactly what we currently need.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 12:04 AM

Shit. John Prine.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 03:23 AM

Again, Iains, you quote all those numbers without saying how common they are in the general population

There are a few things going on there.
1) how likely are you to contract COVID-19? - social distancing apart (pun intended) - it is no respecter of status, be careful!
2) If you can't be careful, be lucky
3) If you can't be careful, have a healthy/lucky lifestyle.
4) If you can't be careful, be young (I am working on that one)
5) Some of the people we rely on like doctors and nurses (+ police, firemen etc) may be vulnerable yet answer the call. And pay the price. It has happened.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 06:59 AM

Steve, I guess that masks are less effective if we are in close proximity to someone without one and do not help with surface to hand transmission so if someone takes of their masks before washing their hands it does kind of negate any benefit.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 07:03 AM

I wish the media would be a bit more discerning when reporting individual health announcements and wait for peer validated announcements. We are getting so many mixed messages.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 07:58 AM

The secret to peer into the future is to scrutinize the past.

In 1919-1920 people grew weary and stopped the very same social distancing measures we use today. As a result when the second wave arrived it was more catastrophic than it needed to be. And again with the 3rd wave.

Their past is our future.

Our own behavior will exaccerbate the outome but does not cause the 2nd and 3rd wave.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Rain Dog
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 09:33 AM

Steve Shaw posted a copy of the email he sent to Lidl "I simply couldn't understand the wild-west approach to the crisis that seems to be prevailing at this store."

I thought that you did live in the wild-west. Here in the calm south east we do have a Lidl at an out of town location. Not been to it myself as I don't have a car plus it would mean travelling up north.

Stay safe everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 12:27 PM

The secret to peer into the future is to scrutinize the past.

Usually. But it relies on people looking for the similarities. As I find when drawing analogies in discussions like in this parish. Similarities are ignored or denigrated by comments that show the differences and by implication the analogy is dismissed.

History is an analogy for the future. It is different now, we know more (aka more intelligent?????) now.

If we are more intelligent - we will see the similarities as warnings and differences as boundaries/borders to the similarities.

FWIW History can show there danger of a second wave of epidemic, as we relax. I fear, not predict.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 02:10 PM

Virginia is now under stay-at-home orders.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 02:22 PM

Steve Shaw posted a copy of the email he sent to Lidl "I simply couldn't understand the wild-west approach to the crisis that seems to be prevailing at this store."

It's not so wild in Bude! Very civilised. I received what looks like a very standardised reply today saying that they're getting on with it, sort of thing. Getting on with what everybody else was doing a week or more ago...

I'm not proud and I use Lidl, Aldi and Poundland as well as Waitrose... the Fire Tree Nero d'Avola at £4.49 at Aldi is the best value red I've found in years.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 02:50 PM

An historian pointed out the fact that cities that carried out parades suffered the most. Today that was New Orleans.

The rest of the country is fueled with new infections by, of all things, Basketball pick up games. TOO BAD there are no public service announcements that the young would listen to. Even if they do, there is an element of defiance or possibly pay back.

The mitigation bucket has lots of holes in it with beaches, stores, homeless, prisons, first responders - (the list is long) , hospitals and elder care facilites.

But its the only bucket we have.

Red, fear is a fine mitigating factor.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 04:36 PM

Yesterday a columnist wrote a vivid and worrying description of what it can be like to have a moderate case of Covid 19. He wrote of lying in bed for a long time, shivering and terribly cold. He even dreamed of riding in a frozen landscape.

But now I ask myself, how about an electric blanket, hot drinks, hot water bottle, chicken soup, hot shower? Was there not one person on the earth who would lend a helping hand? We're not talking about a destitute or derelict person here.

Nonetheless, what he wrote certainly firmed my resolve not to get this virus.
================
I'm often cold at night, esp. my feet and legs. I ordered a big heating pad from Dr. Leonard's catalog, which concentrates on heating those very same feet and legs. Its control goes from 1 to 10, and I only have to put it on 1 or 2. Yet I am sleeping much better than I have in a long time.
==========
A couple of months ago, I asked for a hot water bottle at my local Walgreen's, and they didn't know what I was talking about. They had them.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 05:15 PM

100

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 05:21 PM

”But now I ask myself, how about an electric blanket, hot drinks, hot water bottle, chicken soup, hot shower? Was there not one person on the earth who would lend a helping hand? We're not talking about a destitute or derelict person here.”

Those were the last things he needed - he was shivering and felt cold because he had a fever, a.k.a. a high temperature. The shivering caused by a fever is called ‘Rigors’ and the treatment, perhaps counter-intuitively, is to cool the patient - often by using a fan to cool them down.

Electric blankets, hot drinks, hot water bottles, would increase the fever and result in him feeling even colder.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 05:25 PM

My sister is still very ill with the virus, and she describes being raging hot, and an inability to breathe as if one is suffocating with a very heavy weight one the chest. Incessant coughing and great weakness.
Add to this, she lives all alone in a Scottish village in Tayside.
I expect all sufferers have differing symptoms, depending on their state of health before they succumbed.
Bless her, she's still talking about volunteering once she's better, as presumably she'll have immunity. But is it certain that one can't get it twice?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 07:17 PM

When it feels like a 250 lb person is sitting on your chest is when a ventilator can lessen the stress.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 30 Mar 20 - 09:16 PM

please everyone..make your own masks and don't be afraid to be the first to wear them. i will try to post some good epidemiological links later. i get most of my information from following epidemiologists and virologists on twitter and there don't tend to be links. start following epidemiologists. this is what i came across..google for yourselves...Israel on the verge of making masks mandatory. germany about to make mandatory in supermarkets. Czechoslovakia already mandatory. several asian countries mandatory but i don't know which ones. it has been idiotic to read these comments that they don't work. if they work by 4% that is good. Of course, wash them daily and hang in sun if possible. Don't count on your bus neighbor washing her hands. People don't. It is not to save yourself...it is to collectively save others.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 12:11 AM

Davide Capodanno
@DFCapodanno
The rapid pace of knowledge on #COVID19 leads to revisit your beliefs every 5 minutes. Surgical masks are the most typical example: we went from mocking the few who had them up to the current belief that we should all wear masks for months when things go back to pseudo-normality.

from twitter. was lots on twitter yesterday and more coming right now. find epidemiologists on twitter and follow them if you have anything you think is profound to say. (he is not an epidemiologist but an Italian cardiologist).

please do due diligence and research this. there is no downside i can think of from clean, homemade masks. there is group protection. don't just wear them..pass the word. ask people why they are not wearing something.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 02:36 AM

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/top-chinese-health-official-warns-114801914.html

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/top-chinese-health-official-warns-114801914.html

we will have allowed so many people to die over this foolishness. we surely should have figured out we were being lied to. if the reason was to protect a scarce supply, they should have removed the costco masks from the supply going to medics etc. and they should have told the truth...if they work for the nurses, they will work for people in general, but it is more important to protect the nurses. of course it is. they could then say, make your own. make extra. you must wear them in shops and on the bus. bus drivers are now dying. being a smartass here or elsewhere about this is cruel and unnecessary,

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 03:52 AM

the treatment, perhaps counter-intuitively

Well I'm no medical expert, but the experts I see/read tell me that the high temps are the bodies evolved response to slow down the virus because it struggles at higher temperatures.
Indeed the time honoured advice of lemon, honey & an aspirin is forwned on, because acetylsalicylic acid is vaso-dilatory** which cools you down, thus lengthening recovery.
Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice.

** so is whisky (or whiskey) - but then who cares?.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 04:07 AM

In case anybody doesn't look into the UK politics thread I've taken the liberty of repeating DtheG's link HERE
Everybody should be fully aware what is happening
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 04:15 AM

toilet rolls reward for finding missing cockatiel

Living in interesting times!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 04:24 AM

I see that there are now 165 cases in Ivory Coast, mostly in Abidjan. Husband is frantic with worry for his numerous family. No 'lockdown' as such, just a curfew and mosques/schools closed. But people are out on the streets, going to markets etc.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 09:28 AM

Merde, Senoufou.

I think Virginia has canceled my annual tripping naked hippie springtime Float Trip (it is Memorial Day weekend and stay-home is till June 10). Merde all over again.

Face masks keep you from *giving* but not from getting germs. Worth it.

Texas has ruled the abortion ban to be unconstitutional and unenforceable so that is something.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 11:01 AM

Nurses are not afraid of giving the virus to their dying patients. They are afraid of getting it. And I was wondering if dogs could be used to sniff out fever and this illness. They are being tried out in several countries I believe.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 11:16 AM

Alabama also. I joined the ACLU as soon as Trump was sworn in, and have kept that membership going.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 11:44 AM

”Well I'm no medical expert, but the experts I see/read tell me that the high temps are the bodies evolved response to slow down the virus because it struggles at higher temperatures.
Indeed the time honoured advice of lemon, honey & an aspirin is forwned on, because acetylsalicylic acid is vaso-dilatory** which cools you down, thus lengthening recovery.
Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice.“

Well, I was speaking from personal experience, as a patient with high fever and severe rigors on a significant number of occasions over the past fifteen years due to life-threatening infections, of the treatment that was given to me. I was shivering uncontrollably and very painfully to the point of exhaustion, but the things I desperately wanted - heat, warmer bedding, etc., were refused by the medical staff at QMC Nottingham and, instead, thin bedding and a fan were used to reduce my fevers on each occasion. Whilst it’s true that a high temperature is part of the body’s defence against bacterial or viral infections, very high temperatures - >40C - are, in themselves, life-threatening and need to be reduced.

But don’t just take my word for it - scroll down to the last section of the article.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 01:53 PM

Re (NOT) funding charities in trouble from covid19, in a good nation in a good United Nations there would be no need for private (competing) charities where, if a celebrity gets involved e.g., some get more than they need & others not enough.

And re news of garden centres in trouble - good, if they are selling exotics rather than the native flora that our native fauna EVOLVED WITH; some photos of Levenshulme Allotments, with native gardening advice here

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Mar 20 - 04:01 PM

Well I'm outraged that my local garden centre is closed whereas Bude Morrisons and B&M, both of which have more or less separate mini-garden centres, can carry on regardless. That just isn't right. I'm with Titchmarsh on this. Unless the policy changes I'm boycotting all supermarket gardening departments.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Apr 20 - 04:00 AM

Our local Morrisons has a small garden centre attached, but it was fenced off and closed when we went there on Saturday. I wanted bags of compost and some red geranium plants to 'do' our tubs in front of our house.
Husband prefers scarifying the lawn and pressure-washing the patio (menz and macheenz) but we ladeez like to plant and tend.

I suppose none of this is what the Authorities would call 'essential purchasing' though.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 20 - 07:11 AM

Pressure-washing the patio is a filthy job. Mrs Steve would be welcome to it!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Apr 20 - 07:39 AM

That's very true Steve. He gets soaked to the skin, covered in gunk and manages to splash it all up the conservatory windows. But he seems to enjoy doing it (thank goodness!)
At this very moment he's fence-painting and his black face is covered in Ronseal Medium Oak sploshes, not to mention his old Arsenal football shirt (he's gone off them for some reason)
Being outside in the garden and busy is very therapeutic during this pandemic.
I feel sorry for people trapped in a high-rise flat in a city centre.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Apr 20 - 10:23 AM

I love rock'n'roll songwriter gone.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Apr 20 - 12:36 PM

You want him dead? :^/ make commas common. make comas rare. Compulsive food, wine and compost shoppers stay home for 2 weeks.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Apr 20 - 01:08 PM

My poor sister just sent me a brief email. She's much worse, can't sleep, is boiling hot and extremely weak. Her local vicar is bringing her food. This is about 2 weeks now. What has upset me is that she's given the vicar a list of hymns for her funeral. She can't speak on the phone as she's lost her voice. We're so very worried.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Apr 20 - 01:26 PM

Oh, dear, dear Senoufou. Je pense à toi et à elle.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: fat B****rd
Date: 01 Apr 20 - 01:32 PM

Thinking of you as always. Eliza x

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Apr 20 - 01:48 PM

Thank you so much both of you. It's hard being so far from her, and knowing she lives alone. It seems this virus goes on and on for maybe weeks.
Her vicar contacted 111 on her behalf, but they said she can't be admitted to hospital for several reasons. She's elderly, is managing to breathe although with difficulty, and they're short of places anyway.
She's spent all her working days as a hospital doctor and yet there's no place for her now in her hour of need.
All we can do is carry on praying.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Apr 20 - 03:55 PM

Obesity is apparently a factor but hard to separate from the issues obesity gives you.

Marsalis père.

New Orleans should not have had Mardi Gras but, who knew, then.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Apr 20 - 04:30 PM

Finally, the BBC is suggesting masks, perhaps covering themselves by saying the WHO is now suggesting a sneeze or cough can carry further than earlier thought - as mentioned a couple of weeks ago, seeing those of other nations that have coped relatively well wearing them was enough to convince me.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Apr 20 - 08:49 PM

What is this about it fighting it off not conferring immunity? I had been counting on immunity.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Apr 20 - 10:18 PM

Medical supplies from the federal government is being delivered to private companies who then have states and other countries bid on them.
I wonder how George Patton would feel if FDR had let Sherman tanks be put up for auction for even the Germans to bid on?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 02:15 AM

general honore, one of the few people who seems to know what he is doing on this, has spoken on the private bidding. It is disgusting. Lawyers need to comb through law books to see how high we can hang them.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 10:33 AM

They are going back and forth on xhloroquine.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 03:27 PM

The Govenor of Georgia only learned this week that there is a pandemic of non sympmtomatic jock itch carriers that spread the illness. Or something like that.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Apr 20 - 09:14 AM

Apparently with billions of people staying home there is less pollution and there are fewer earthquakes!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Apr 20 - 05:58 PM

Ok did that orange asshole *really* steal a shipment of medical masks and ventilators heading for Germany?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/mask-wars-coronavirus-outbidding-demand

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 07:49 AM

In this age of favoring the economy over the life spans of people, by the businessman/fascist tactics of the new conservatives, it is actually neccessary to remind YOU that living IS AGING!

While the wealthy ruling class repeat and insist that "the cure must not be worse than the problem", YOU MUST NOT give in to the nonsense that your survival is unimportant compared to doing business.

With enough repetition/hypnosis people can be lured to the cliffs like lemmings. Its happened before. It sounds like it will happen again.
You may not need to be reminded that aging is living but the young are more easily indoctrinated than you.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 08:00 AM

DO NOT STOP ISOLATION TOO SOON.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 10:27 AM

Right. I am arguing with the idiots in my various meetup groups who are still meeting up.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 10:35 AM

Coronaservatives are not the boss of you.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 10:59 AM

If you are disgusted with astrology, stop right here, then move on.

This is from New York astrologer Susan Miller, and at the end of the post
a link will be made to her website.
The post, however, will be short and to the point.

Re: Coronavirus TIMING in the calendar year 2020
Three dates:

April 4, 2020

(May 13)    June 30    (September 12) , 2020

November 12, 2020   


Explanation:
The calendar year 2020 and the time cycle for the coronavirus pandemic
will not be a simple event with a rise, one big peak/top, and a fall back towards 'normalcy.'

The pandemic cycle will have TWO high peaks, not one,
and inbetween there is a false low, with one lowest point.

First pandemic peak: April 4, 2020 ... but not the last.

False pandemic 'low point': June 30, 2020;
the pandemic will appear to drop starting May 13,
and will not rise very much before/until September 12.

November 12, 2020 will see the pandemic peak for the SECOND time, and strongly, too.


'Apparent retrograde motion,' an astronomical phenomenon, gets the credit
for bringing three date markers, instead of one, into this cycle.
And the real culprit is the planet Pluto.

The 2020 Coronavirus Outlook

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 11:27 AM

This is hardly the time to be posting claptrap like that.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 03:44 PM

I don't know, even toe nail clipping future casting has its place.

For example thousands of rental cars went up in flames at a florida airport today. My toe nail clippings predicted it. Wink Wink nudge nudge News

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 04:08 PM

Yeah, I met a bloke today who said there's no virus, we can't prove it, and that it's all a big conspiracy. You appear to be in bed with lunatics of that ilk, keberoxu.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 05:02 PM

Worldometer data and charts for COVID-19 Coronavirus Pandemic

If you want to know more data on a specific country click the hyperlink on the country name on the left hand column. Not all countries have a hyperlink. A useful column for comparison of countries in the spreadsheet is Deaths/1 million population.

For the last two weeks Australia has been using social distancing and non-essential business shutdowns and social isolation. People are expected to stay at home and only go out for essentials like food supplies, medical appointments and essential work. A lot of people are suddenly working from home, including my Hubby.

If you look at the charts most of the negative data are showing a flattening of the curve or even a minor decline.

Unfortunately a decision was made in mid March to allow a cruise ship to dock and passengers disembarked and went to their respective home areas, despite a notification by the medical officer on board advising that some of the passengers and crew were found to be infected with COVID 19. This has been the main source of infections in Australia and contact tracing has been conducted in most of the cases to trace the various infections to contact with someone coming in from overseas. Some contacts have been within the community, however, and these have been more difficult to trace.

The important thing to focus on is that the social distancing and isolation, and the shutdown of non-essential businesses appears to be having a positive effect.

By comparison, look at the U.S. data and the negative charts all show rising cases and rising deaths.

I would suggest that if your government does not tell you to socially isolate yourself then think about doing it for yourself if at all possible.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 06:42 PM

Funny, innit. We get all hoity-toity about our governments and their failings, etc, and all judgemental about wankers we see sunbathing on the beach...

Then something hits you in the guts. Yesterday, a bloke I knew personally died of the bloody thing. That's the first time for me. It's a shuddering thing is that. He was a brilliant musician and I once played a duet on the harmonica with him. There's actually a thread about him above the line. His name is Ted Crum and he was one of the loveliest men you could wish to meet. Damn... :-(

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 06:56 PM

Well shit, Steve Shaw. So sorry. My cousin and her daughter are recovering, but I fear for Senoufou's sister.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 07:40 PM

Has anyone besides me seen this site?

A Mask For All: requires a 3D printer

I don't know who has a 3D printer where I am ...
having said that:
this thing you can download, for free if I get this right,
and the 3D printer will make it
and you assemble it.
The mask frame has a place where you can insert filter material,
thus you can clean the mask when not in used,
and replace a used mask filter with a new clean one.

What do you all think?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 09:34 PM

Marianne Faithfull.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 09:10 AM

And why are the testing tigers in the zoo? Madeleine would say pooh pooh.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 09:44 AM

Our true character shines through masks
But Bank robbers still wear skimasks
While some Red necks wear bandanas
Trumpists proudly wear no masks
Kid masks have smiling bananas
but Democrats wear N-95's

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 11:41 AM

I got a purple-ish silk scarf. No idea where my kelly green one went.

Plays havoc with my claustrophobia, though.

I only wear it when I am out of my house but indoors (doc's office, grocery store). Somehow that last bit came out to the tune of the Beverley Hillbillies (swimming pools, movie stars).

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 12:38 PM

Just heard it is at my good friend's old folks' home. Merde.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:24 PM

And Virginia is allowing distilleries to ship to people's homes to avoid trips to the liquor store!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:30 PM

In Wash DC the mariquana dispensories are praised by the mayor as being an essential store.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:33 PM

Boris Johnson moved to Intensive Care (BBC News just now).

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 04:07 PM

It's at my mum's care home too. She is 91 and has COPD.

The news about Boris is terrible. Get well, mate...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 05:13 PM

I was just about to post about Boris. When did he last shake hands with Trump?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 05:21 PM

And Oklahoma has partially stopped the ban on abortions.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 10:51 PM

A friend of the devil is a friend of mine.
I hope Boris does well in the Horse spittle.
A failure to act is his only sad crime
We can hope his breathe won't get too brittle
What this means is that Covid 19 has stunned
his ace2 receptors deep in the lungs.
The air sacs (avioli) have the ace2 receptors.
If the virus stays in the nose the case may stay mild
but being well behaved is not in virus nature.

ITS OFFICIAL In Chicago the black community is suffering a double
infection rate and is dieing at 7 times the rate of white communities.
The cause is probably education and the nature of their employment.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 12:05 AM

DC too.

Bad Supreme Court decisions about in-person voting in Wisconsin and I think simewhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 03:46 AM

I live in fear of hearing that Abidjan cases escalate. Most of the people there are poor, ill-nourished and living in very close proximity, several to a room etc. They are all on curfew, but can go out during the day and mix freely, which seems mad to me.
Also, medical care is practically unobtainable there.

I see that most of the major supermarkets are now allowing only one person to each trolley (no couples) so I'll have to stay in the car while husband does the actual shopping armed with a list.

I hope Boris Johnson pulls through. (and indeed anyone in an ICU)
I read today that two-thirds of those put on a ventilator will die from the virus. Luckily my sister is off hers now and on a drip instead.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 03:55 AM

Good news, Sen. I hope she’s on her way to a full recovery.
I’m also in the same camp as most others re: Boris Johnson - I’ve never wished I’ll health on anyone, and I wish Mr. Johnson a full and speedy recovery.
Stay well dear lady!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 04:18 AM

very high temperatures - >40C - are, in themselves, life-threatening and need to be reduced.

As I always say, "life ain't binary". But the advice to the general idiot in the street, currently for COVID-19, is "to avoid ibuprofen and asprin", because they are vaso-dilatory.
If you are in hospital, it is a different context, you have the extended knowledge of experts, who have thermometers and are not afraid to wield them.

Some experts advocate Tylenol which would appear to be nothing more than Paracetamol which has been cited as not much better - and is also antipyretic BTW. Though is not anti-inflammatory which is a plus apparently.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 06:23 AM

Acetaminophen and paracetamol are the same thing, as is Tylenol, which is just a brand name in the US.

Well I've been taking diclofenac (Voltarol) for many years for back pain. It's an NSAID but the advice is to continue taking it, and I am doing. I have better things to worry about.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 09:10 AM

https://www.technologynetworks.com/immunology/videos/the-coronavirus-outbreak-explained-through-3d-medical-animation-332089

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 09:35 AM

The problem with NSAIDs is their effect on the immune response to the virus - they drastically reduce it. Paracetamol and microdose aspirin are ok, pain-relief or anti-inflammatory doses of aspirin/NSAIDs seem to be very dangerous right now. Use dihydrocodeine or similar if you really need it. (No idea about gabapentin or amitryptiline).

I haven't seen any research on fhe effects of fever reduction. My take on it is that fever is an anti-viral response, so you want to just let it happen unless it gets dangerously high - and with COVID-19 it rarely seems to get that bad.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 09:45 AM

No narcotics for me, thanks. I had a terrible experience with tramadol - and I only took it for three weeks. Not only that, it didn't work.

Subject: VIRUS DENIERS on TV and radio
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 09:51 AM

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-republicans-denial-fox-news-trump-war-on-science-20200315.html



https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/04/dr-drew-coronavirus-supercut-restored-to-youtube-after-copyright-takedown/

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 10:20 AM

At the intersection of Disinformation and Hate there are hard core Trump advocates that will not relent their conspiracies even unto their deathbed. We are going to lose quite a few extremists to covid 19.
We are also losing black citizens at a death rate 7 times higher than other communities for a similar but different kind of disinformation and distrust.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 10:25 AM

It took me several days to get off of Tramadol after taking it for about 3 weeks for the knee surgery. I had to cut the tablets to taper off of it. It was somewhat helpful for the muscle pain (nothing is completely effective). Is coughing with coronavirus "productive" - do you want to keep coughing? Codeine cough syrup is pretty effective with heavy coughs; I prefer taking guiafed. Are people having to sleep propped up?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 10:52 AM

Article on what might or might not be sn actual symptom: https://slate.com/technology/2020/04/coronavirus-wild-symptoms-correlation.html

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 11:59 AM

A morning productive cough is normal to me.
A dry cough is normally bronchitis,allergies,asthma...
A dry cough with fever should be watched.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 02:36 PM

Donuel said, "...losing black citizens at a death rate 7 times higher than other communities..."

This is what worries me. The people who cannot afford medical services, the people who are on or near the poverty line, the people who are targeted by the racists, they are all of the people who seem to be fair game in Donald Trump's policies and strategies. I keep seeing in my head the media scenes of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina and what I saw was a country abandoning its people in crisis to a great degree, and most of the people in those media images were black people.


A note on productive coughs: it's a medical term meaning that the cough is "producing" or ejecting phlegm from the lungs. If you can clear the lungs it will help ease the symptoms. Dry coughs tend not to be productive coughs.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 04:01 PM

The racial parameters are not measured in the hospital but are garnered later by calling the morgue. So the figures could be unreliable bu t I fear not. I believe I can see the social and economic reasons. The psych reasons for not trusting whitey and not giving a fuck goes around and comes around. Poverty is a powerful killer.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 07:58 AM

And don't bury John Prine down in the cold cold ground.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 08:48 AM

Yep, Mr. Prine made it clear how he wants his remains disposed of long ago:

"Please don't bury me
Down in that cold, cold ground
No, I'd rather have 'em cut me up
And pass me all around"

"Throw my brain in a hurricane
And the blind can have my eyes
And the deaf can take both of my ears
If they don't mind the size"

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 09:21 AM

WHAT IS THE AFTERMATH?


I admire thinking ahead. Here are the best macro thinkers on dealing with the now and future.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/03/19/coronavirus-effect-economy-life-society-analysis-covid-135579

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 11:12 AM

Also posted on the Cause thread


Blicky

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 01:21 PM

Another of my cousins has it. This one is in the DC area, the others were in Austin.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 03:53 PM

The personal becomes dangerous.

Deborah Tannen is a professor of linguistics at Georgetown and author, most recently, of You’re the Only One I Can Tell: Inside the Language of Women’s Friendships.


On 9/11, Americans discovered we are vulnerable to calamities we thought only happened in distant lands. The 2008 financial crisis told us we also can suffer the calamities of past eras, like the economic meltdown of the Great Depression. Now, the 1918 flu pandemic is a sudden specter in our lives.


This loss of innocence, or complacency, is a new way of being-in-the-world that we can expect to change our doing-in-the-world. We know now that touching things, being with other people and breathing the air in an enclosed space can be risky. How quickly that awareness recedes will be different for different people, but it can never vanish completely for anyone who lived through this year. It could become second nature to recoil from shaking hands or touching our faces—and we might all find we can’t stop washing our hands.


The comfort of being in the presence of others might be replaced by a greater comfort with absence, especially with those we don’t know intimately. Instead of asking, “Is there a reason to do this online?” we’ll be asking, “Is there any good reason to do this in person?”—and might need to be reminded and convinced that there is. Unfortunately, if unintendedly, those without easy access to broadband will be further disadvantaged. The paradox of online communication will be ratcheted up: It creates more distance, yes, but also more connection, as we communicate more often with people who are physically farther and farther away—and who feel safer to us because of that distance.


A new kind of patriotism.

Mark Lawrence Schrad is an associate professor of political science and author of the forthcoming Smashing the Liquor Machine: A Global History of Prohibition.


America has long equated patriotism with the armed forces. But you can’t shoot a virus. Those on the frontlines against coronavirus aren’t conscripts, mercenaries or enlisted men; they are our doctors, nurses, pharmacists, teachers, caregivers, store clerks, utility workers, small-business owners and employees. Like Li Wenliang and the doctors of Wuhan, many are suddenly saddled with unfathomable tasks, compounded by an increased risk of contamination and death they never signed up for.


When all is said and done, perhaps we will recognize their sacrifice as true patriotism, saluting our doctors and nurses, genuflecting and saying, “Thank you for your service,” as we now do for military veterans. We will give them guaranteed health benefits and corporate discounts, and build statues and have holidays for this new class of people who sacrifice their health and their lives for ours. Perhaps, too, we will finally start to understand patriotism more as cultivating the health and life of your community, rather than blowing up someone else’s community. Maybe the de-militarization of American patriotism and love of community will be one of the benefits to come out of this whole awful mess.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 11:41 PM

except that the military (composed of both men and women) is increasingly a part of the response to this, and is used to doing things fairly quickly and efficiently. We have a lot to learn from them (us).

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 07:00 AM

Patriotism is imho the wrong metaphor. Patriotism would make it right of Trump to steal Germany's masks. Fuck the idea that the citizens of any one country deserve to live more than those of another, sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 09:15 AM

Loop hole allows debt collectors to seize pandemic relief checks and social security checks from those in pandemic need.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 09:49 AM

Just heard on bbc news that the BCG (old tuberculosis vaccine) might work. That would make me happy, my sisters and I all had that. The BCG, not consumption.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 01:57 PM

Males are twice as likely to get infected. The reasons for that are social and the extra X chromosome in females. Breast milk may provide a bit of protection.

The line outside the grocery store was about a quarter mile long.
Distancing and one in one out policy is why.

Drivers are pent up and definetely out for themselves with a me first atttude.

No hamburger. No cleaning products. No frozen foods.

They had milk and cookies.

Grocery baggers are dieing despite being only in their 20's.

The supply chain is suffering.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 02:17 PM

Perhaps, too, we will finally start to understand patriotism more as cultivating the health and life of your community, rather than blowing up someone else’s community. Maybe the de-militarization of American patriotism and love of community will be one of the benefits to come out of this whole awful mess.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 02:55 PM

Men are not more likely to catch it, but they are more likely to die of it.

Also this: https://wsvn.com/news/us-world/smoking-weed-and-coronavirus-even-occasional-use-raises-risk-of-covid-19-complications/

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 02:56 PM

And this:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.23.20026864v2

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 03:05 PM

Males are twice as likely to get infected. The reasons for that are social and the extra X chromosome in females. Breast milk may provide a bit of protection.

So I just need to find a compliant young mum then ;)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 03:41 PM

With regard to the BCG (protection against TB) vaccine, my sister and I both had it done at 14yrs old, but she recently got Covid.
By the way, she's home at last, very weak and a bit low, but thankful to be back in her Tayside village once more.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: fat B****rd
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 04:20 PM

Good to hear, Eliza x

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 04:42 PM

Thank you very much Charlie!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 05:21 PM

Oh Senoufou quel soulagement.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 06:04 PM

It is reccomended to not go shopping or to the drugstore this week of the peak. They didn't have apples or lettuce or tomatos or cabbage or meat anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 06:13 PM

Merci bcp Mrrzy, c'est vraiment un énorme soulagement.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Thompson
Date: 11 Apr 20 - 06:45 PM

We're having an advance viewing of the horrors that are coming our way if we don't reverse the climate crisis. However, people forget fast. They'll just start driving again as soon as this is over, and soon it will all be over.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Apr 20 - 09:45 PM

Now now there is hope with the young

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 04:56 PM

Trump says he'll base decisions on "facts and instincts" - I haven't laughed that hard in weeks.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 20 - 07:10 PM

instinct and fact is like going with his gut and underwear for proof.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 01:00 AM

how is iran doing? i have not heard anything for a while and the charts that i look at don't show current status.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 02:13 AM

Hi mg, this data is updated daily and if you click the link on the name of the country you are interested in it will show more detailed data and also charts. I've been looking at this every day.

COVID-19 Coronavirus Pandemic

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 02:17 AM

The cause is probably education and the nature of their employment.

It has been pointed-out that the lower paid/out of work are represented at a higher percentage in the African-American community, and there is a lifestyle dimension too.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 06:09 AM

worrying opinions on the use of ventilators

Basically some respected medics in the US & Italy are saying that what they see is that COVD-19 causes a lack of oxygen, rather than pneumonia per se. And ventilating with positive pressure does cause lung damage and the sedation has side effects also. It is treatment, a patch, not a re-fit with new parts!
The bottom line is that COVID-19 is new and we are learning, and we do what has worked before. What is needed is not necessarily what was done before.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 08:35 AM

Mr Red
Ventilators are one means to oxygenate blood and remove CO2. It is not the best but is more available and cheaper.
When ventillated;
TOU CAN NOT EAT
YOU CAN NOT TALK
THE CHEAPEST NOURISHMENT IS GLUCOSE DRIP :(not good for diabetics)
20%+ effective in saving life
Sedation or medical Coma is not required but is considered more comfortable.

You've seen the oxygen hoods used as an alternative or intermediary treatment.
Mucus/ (different kind of sputum) from Covis 19 is thicker but not like a fluid suffocating pnumonia.
The X ray of Covid damaged lungs looks more cotton like than dark fluid filled lungs with other pnumonias..
There are attempts to drain lungs.
There are a bevy of medications being tried.

Yes there is room for specific improvement to address damage and symptoms. Standards of care is being treated like a one size fits all.
This is a common problem in all areas of medicine. Perhaps a novel alternative will prove promising by a risk taking smart doctor.

Or you could ask the Stable genius and self proclaimed scientist Steve Shaw for assistance. He is the one who condemened my early pandemic warning in January and did nothing for 2 months.

The clues are there for all to see but the next effective treatments are immunity plasma and vaccines.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 08:47 AM

If this was WW2 we are at the end of the beggining.
We have yet to discover 'radar' and 'enigma machine'.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 07:30 AM

The US is #1
   Woo Hoo !
The UK is #2
in viral infections

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 07:36 AM

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 09:11 AM

Weirdly enough lying on your stomach improves your lung function and O2 saturation, if you're sick and having trouble with breathing.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 11:41 AM

tru nuff

If you are far more comfortable resting on your left side, you may have a heart valve disorder. (or acid reflux or sore hip...)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 12:05 PM

It would be nice if medical recommendations and diagnoses on this forum come exclusively from qualified medical professionals. Cheers.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 09:36 AM

Mine do. I just don't post the link. You can look it up yourself, keeps boredom away.

Our abysmal failure is now being blamed on WHO to the point of defunding. I am ashamed of my government, again.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 10:11 AM

Deflection of his own guilt by the Orange-Utan (sic) currently stinking-up 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., DC 20500.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 05:02 PM

Virginia has extended its closure of nonessential businesses orders for 2 more weeks. Does not alter the stay-at-home order.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 20 - 08:44 AM

Now Covid virus has been found in nasal passages for up to 21 days after regaining health and getting positive antibody testing.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 16 Apr 20 - 06:44 PM

"Sorry, Peons, Stay-at-Home Rules Don’t Apply to Ivanka Trump And Jared Kushner" -Vanity Fair

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 20 - 09:58 PM

My source of inside information has dried up. This does not bode well.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Apr 20 - 10:51 PM

Oh dear.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 20 - 06:57 PM

RESDEMIMIR WORKS (ebola drug)

Oxychloroquin causes more harm and is stopped by several nations.

China revises death toll by 50%

!0 times the number of citizens have Covid 19 antibodies than early tests revealed. Immunity even with antibodies is now in question.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 20 - 08:37 PM

Resdemivir cnn

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 01:01 PM

Latest from UK, on being questioned whether the government would lift the no recourse to public funds rules for illegal migrants so that those who are displaying symptoms feel safe to seek medical help if displaying symptoms rather than remain in the community the Communities Minister whose name is totally unmemorable stated that the government has no intention of doing so, and it would be down to individual local authorities to find the money for making provision if they so wish. We have a minister who is putting its hostile environment ideology before public health.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 07:51 PM

Ok this is from a fox affiliate, but they quote science: https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/researchers-discover-new-coronavirus-symptoms-feet-lesions

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Apr 20 - 01:54 PM

From the Washington Post:

Europe resistant to apps for tracking spread of coronavirus

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Apr 20 - 02:18 PM

Nieman-Marcus goes bankrupt.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Apr 20 - 02:23 PM

Also some post-pandemic advice:

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/5-things-not-to-do-when-coronavirus-quarantine-lockdown-end/#ftag=CAD-00-10aag7d

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 20 Apr 20 - 07:22 AM

Have we all been had?

https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/17/8-more-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Apr 20 - 08:08 AM

Exercise is good:https://www.dailyprogress.com/news/uva/exercise-an-effective-weapon-against-pandemic-uva-study-finds/article_b4725588-29d8-5d83-a06b-bed9fad60778.html

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Apr 20 - 08:19 AM

I'm gaining weight. I don't do superfluous excercise.   I don't even copy and paste if links are not a blue clicky.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 20 Apr 20 - 08:41 AM

"Have we all been had?"

You have, guido jr., many times over.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 20 Apr 20 - 08:44 AM

Squats a compound exercise you can do anywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 20 Apr 20 - 09:07 AM

Gillymoor I have every confidence in my opinions. I am disappointed you continue the poitless exercise of ad hominem attacks. Are you of the leftward persuasion also?
I wonder what the the collective name for a plurality of experts should be?
A contradiction of experts perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 20 Apr 20 - 09:09 AM

2i is dissapointed, boo-frickety-hoo.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Apr 20 - 01:10 PM

Gillymoor I have every confidence in my opinions.

That is what Mr Dunning & Mr Kruger found commonly.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 20 Apr 20 - 02:04 PM

Please people, stop posting misinformation. If you have information that a particular drug is effective, or ineffective, post a link to a publication in a peer reviewed journal and don't post at all. And Iains, the link in your post of 20 Apr 20 - 07:22 AM is complete crap from a bunch of tinfoil hat merchants. John Oxford used to have some credibility as a virologist, but in this case he should re-read what he wrote and reflect as to whether he was wise to say it.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Apr 20 - 02:22 PM

What *is* the group name for experts? A panel?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 05:48 AM

A pressure of

As in has-been drips under........................

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 07:31 AM

Posting actual news about the pandemic is practically thread drift at this point but there is actual news as you are awash in all virus news shows 24/7. The word to the wise today is remdesivir

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 08:56 AM

The virus is basically the same the world-over.

In fact one of the positive things about it, in terms of working on a possible vaccine, is that it shows very few & minor mutations wherever it's been tested (unlike common 'flu strains). This is thought to be because of its virulence, if it wasn't more virulent then we would probably see more mutation.

The reason that some otherwise healthy people succumb to the virus, is due to viral load - nothing to do with Johnson not being present at COBRA meetings or what this government has or has not done. If you expose anyone to a high-enough level of viral organisms, or expose them frequently to these organisms, then the viral population in effect overwhelms the immune response. This is what we see in healthcare workers.

If you put someone in an environment where lots of people (or things) around them are infected, or they are coming into close contact with someone (or something) with the virus frequently, then their viral load increases - nothing to do with Johnson not being present at COBRA meetings or what this government has or has not done. That's why distancing & hygiene are so important.

Viral load is person-specific. It doesn't spread. Someone with a higher-viral load doesn't shed the virus at a greater rate again nothing to do with Johnson not being present at COBRA meetings or what this government has or has not done.

The reason why isolating yourself is important if you're infected, is as much to keep yourself safe, as to avoid passing it on to others.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 09:13 AM

You may well be right about viral load. But I don't know why you attached Boris's non-attendance at those meetings (confirmed by Gove) to it.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 09:14 AM

Um, of course higher viral load means more virus-shedding. One sneeze from a low-load has fewer viri than one sneeze from high-load.

Bavaria has canceled Oktoberfest.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 10:12 AM

Hmm. Once the virus has incubated and you've become symptomatic, or even before that point, the initial virus load would no longer be particularly relevant. And the plural of virus is viruses.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 11:14 AM

Donuel, that is a study without a control group, of 53 patients. The number at the end who died was consistent within statistical errors with the Chinese studies without the drug. The article mentions that someone else plans to carry out a controlled study of 600 patients. That might give useful information, but not yet.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 11:20 AM

Bonzo:

"The virus is basically the same the world-over."


Is that right? It may be, but I have seen no study of regional variation in the virus. The Wikipedia page on SARS-COV-2 talks about the difference between it and pangolin viruses, but nothing on regional variation or lack of.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 11:22 AM

Bonzo again:

"The reason that some otherwise healthy people succumb to the virus, is due to viral load - nothing to do with Johnson not being present at COBRA meetings or what this government has or has not done. If you expose anyone to a high-enough level of viral organisms, or expose them frequently to these organisms, then the viral population in effect overwhelms the immune response. This is what we see in healthcare workers."

Again, can you point to a study to support this? A paper in Lancet maybe?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 12:50 PM

No, they are wise words from a medical consultant in the family, no more, no less. I don't do studies, I only wear a minimal size anorak !!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: Flu ain't the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 02:31 PM

I wouldn't blame anyone for being impatient. Instant gratification is ingrained in our culture, machines and behavior.
Looking into an ebola drug is thinking outside the box.
Doing the double blind experiments takes a very long time followed by more time. What if there is a connection, what if there isn't?

The mysteries abound and confound.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 03:05 PM

"The virus is basically the same the world-over."

Is that right? It may be, but I have seen no study of regional variation in the virus. The Wikipedia page on SARS-COV-2 talks about the difference between it and pangolin viruses, but nothing on regional variation or lack of.

There has been research into regional variations. They use techniques that were used to prove archeological migration patterns "out of Africa" and all that. The report I saw was in the Telegrope, and it showed a correlation for Europe & Australia. China was different enough to throw a spanner in the homespun theories of transmission routes. I can't see a Tory bias making that up! The Telegrope is not that subtle.

AND

Yer viral overload results in an over-active immune response where the knowledgeable (on more considered TV) use words like cytokine storm. However you look at it, the body itself attacks you. Hence the temperature.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 05:15 PM

At first there was a rumor about a couple variants of covid 19 then they said it appears fairly stable and not susceptable to quick mutation. I'm a spectator like everyone else.

The culture war right wingers are ignoring stay at home advisories.
Those politicians who can be bought to open venues like the Vegas Strip and new Shopping Malls are making money. The true red Trumpers are going full goose bonkers to expose themselves to the virus. I will be a spectator to thier mass die off 3 weeks after their grand opening.
The highest fatality rates, which are still only estimations, is about 2%.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 20 - 07:17 PM

This just in on Onion news
More Republicans dieing of the pandemic than Democrats
is proof the virus has a bigotry against the right and is a never Trumper.

Militia General Ratner:
This liberal deep state bio warfare against the far right will not stand. "lock and load - or is it load and lock"

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 02:29 AM

My day off - hooraaaaaaaaaay!!!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 05:40 AM

Is that the day you go to work?




I'll get my face mask......................

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 07:13 AM

No, I work Monday, Tuesday, Thursday & Friday - at home of course at the moment via Teamviewer to our office server. Not the most satisfactory way of working at the moment, because file transfer speeds have been slow this week.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 10:00 AM

If someone is put on a ventillator due to Covid 19 their chance for survival is only 20%. It is a rare enough event to recover, some hospitals have a protocol of celebrating a recovered patient's release with applause at the exit to the music of Rocky.

Those who are ventilated are put in a medical coma which sometimes leads to blood clots and pulmonary embollisms from the lack of movement. This results in leg amputations when clots are found early.

This 'coroner' virus is a brute but so is the standard care for serious cases.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 12:06 PM

And now this: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/first-u-s-coronavirus-fatality-found-three-weeks-earlier-than-previously-known.html

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 12:14 PM

Trump should extend his temporary freeze on immigration to a PERMANENT one - respecting Native American/Amerindian/First Nation "Land Rights"
.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 12:27 PM

Just what the world needs - more crap "poetry"[sic].

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 12:46 PM

David Carter UK,
the concept of 'Viral Load' was initially my opinion of one possible factor in infection as reasoned from a occams razor simplistic POV.

Age and Underlying conditions remains a known primary factor.

This 'load' factor is untested to my knowledge, so blame me for the speculation. I can not prove this load theory but I do not see that thinking should be discouraged.
^^^^^^^

The US Attorney General Bill Barr says if people sue to be free of what he calls house arrest, the governmnt will side against strict States and side with plaintiffs.
Bill Barr is on the side of genocide

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 01:04 PM

SING ALONG

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 02:26 PM

Also this is likely why that giy had his leg amputated: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/22/coronavirus-blood-clots/

Also survivors may be left with badly trashed kidneys and hearts, not just lungs.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 22 Apr 20 - 06:16 PM

it's bad for sure. a ray of good news this morning on twitter..out of a yale lab. look it up yourselves or don't believe me. your choice. said that tests via saliva vs. nasal swabs were superior in results. It seems it would also cut down on personnel. I wonder if all the genealogy labs working with saliva kits could be pressed into service or at least provide expertise. Would not require as much exposure of personnel.

I can not imagine that viral load would not be a huge factor. Constant reexposure, such as in a nursing home, must be really bad. there have to be explanations for the high number of deaths both of staff and residents, athough I do believe many were slow to institute lockdowns etc.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Apr 20 - 09:12 AM

Not just the bottoms of the feet: https://kfor.com/news/covid-toes-puzzling-condition-a-possible-coronavirus-symptom-mostly-seen-in-young-people/

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Apr 20 - 10:47 AM

My local drug store is locked up. Nobody there to staff it?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Apr 20 - 12:23 PM

This might be helpful, though not exactly new news: info on how long the virus lives outside people:

https://www.webmd.com/lung/how-long-covid-19-lives-on-surfaces

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Apr 20 - 12:45 PM

While you don't have to eat meat, how long does virus live on raw refridgerated meats?

We don't know but Drs have said That Covid is a respiratory/eye/nose throat threat, its safe to eat Covid.

They really don't know, they just make best guesses.
Handling raw meat should be done VERY cautiously

Lots of meat packing plants are closed due to mass infections.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Apr 20 - 03:42 PM

The packers, not the meat, are infected.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Apr 20 - 03:49 PM

Elizabeth Warren just lost a brother to the virus.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Apr 20 - 06:08 PM

Have you done experiments on how long the virus lives on moist raw meat?

A covid vaccine started human trials today. It contains the protien of the corona spikes.

There are about 70 entities developing vaccines.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 02:03 AM

UK human Trial in 2 Universities started.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 06:54 AM

Within thirty seconds of my arriving in the fruit and veg aisle in Bude Morrison's yesterday, a masked man and a masked woman, not with each other, barged within one foot of me at the bagged lettuce shelf. An unscientific sample of two, maybe, but it made me suspect that mask-wearing may not be the panacea...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 07:18 AM

I hope everyone puts a shot of Lysol in their coffee this morning per the suggestion of the Idiot in Chief.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 07:29 AM

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-drink-inject-disinfectant-bleach-us-dettol-rb-lysol-094417426.html

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 08:13 AM

I don't do the experiments but the reason the packing plants closed is the workers being too sick to pack, not the meat being contaminated.
I have already posted a link to how long this virus lives on various things. Dead meat is not a live host.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 08:20 AM

I gotta hunch that napalm destroys the corona virus better than lysol.
Ask your Dr.if this is good for you.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 10:21 AM

Stephen Fry Reveals How Right-Wing Media Crippled America’s Coronavirus Defense

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stephen-fry-fox-news-trump_n_5ea23e27c5b669fd8921e3a3

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 12:59 PM

My toes are officially curled. It's in the eyes, like ebola.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Researchers-found-coronavirus-in-a-patient-s-eyes-15223616.php

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 01:09 PM

I have noticed a great deal of pink eye among those interviewed on TV
Nurses, doctors, recovered patients etc.)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 01:28 PM

Now twitler is claiming that his disinfectant discourse last evening was sarcasm directed at reporters which was clearly not the case. There is no end to the mendacity.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 01:32 PM

Oh yeah? In their own words

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 07:32 PM

Local news (npr) said that in our area over a dozen emergency responses were made to people who had applied various disinfectants to their bodys

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 07:59 PM

20% increase in disinfectant poisoning

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Apr 20 - 04:02 AM

Interesting to see where Agent Orange got his duff info from...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-leader-group-peddling-bleach-cure-lobbied-trump-coronavirus

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Apr 20 - 05:57 AM

Arsenicum Alb might be considered helpful, despite idiot NHS doctors scorn of homeopathy!!!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Apr 20 - 05:59 AM

Ah, you’re a qualified doctor and medical research specialist, as well as an accountant, Bonz?

Who knew?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 25 Apr 20 - 08:15 AM

Mercifully the White House reports that the Disinfector in Chief is going to pare back appearances at the daily task force "briefings" after turning tail before answering what would have been highly embarrassing disinfectant questions for him at last night's truncated "briefing".
Don't drink bleach.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Apr 20 - 01:20 PM

Kim jong un is apparently probably dead.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 25 Apr 20 - 02:33 PM

Over on the UK Politics thread, I made a mistake when I replied to a post, not realising that it was a joke. As it happens, my reply there is more or less appropriate here:-


Never set any store on information that includes the word "apparently".

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Apr 20 - 03:12 PM

Apparently probably is surely an oxymoron!!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 25 Apr 20 - 03:26 PM

I wonder if the NK's sent Kim out with one of the anti-aircraft gun salutes that he was so fond of. Poor trump loses his soulmate.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Apr 20 - 03:47 PM

Two rumours circulating - (1) Kim Jong Un is dead, and (2) he’s in a vegetative state after an operation to implant a stent went wrong. (nytimes).

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Apr 20 - 03:58 PM

He's been in a vegetative state his whole life. So what's new.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 12:46 PM

CDC adds symptoms: https://abc7chicago.com/health/cdc-adds-6-new-possible-symptoms-of-covid-19/6130502/

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 12:50 PM

Posted this on wrong thread earlier, oops.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/23/21232665/north-korea-kim-jong-un-coronavirus-sick

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 26 Apr 20 - 05:07 PM

A Spoonful of Clorox by Randy Rainbow

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 08:16 AM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 09:42 AM

Not yet news but will be soon: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/27/covid-19-quickly-kills-some-while-others-dont-show-symptoms-can-genetics-explain-this/

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 10:17 AM

It's got elements of hemorrhagic issues, young folks having strokes and apmutations, scary af:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/we-still-dont-know-how-the-coronavirus-is-killing-us.html

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 20 - 03:00 PM

Thats why I thought resdemivir was smart. ebola was hemmoragic.

An app mutation sounds like tech theft.

Most of our genetic information is unknown. They used to call it junk dna. It may contain info to combat long extinct threats. Most of the unknown dna has since been identified as instructions to make specific protiens.
Its not the number of our genes but the info inside them. Some worms have more genes than me.

Wouldn't it be great to just turn on the correct gene to battle covid 19 or find it and CRISPER it into your system? This would even give your descendants immunity. This kind of genetic medicine is only a possibility, not a reality.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Apr 20 - 10:09 AM

The opposite of hemorrhagic, oops, my bad:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/podcasts/post-reports/the-mysterious-clotting-in-covid19-patients/?itid=hp_audio-homepage-low-mweb_pr-main-player-low%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Apr 20 - 10:34 AM

Also inflammation of the blood vessels in children: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/27/health/children-covid-19-illness-intl-scli-gbr/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Apr 20 - 11:40 AM

Virus are not alive like flora or fauna. Nor are they life but rather exist in a grey zone of biota. Are they dead or alive ?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Apr 20 - 03:03 PM

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Apr 20 - 03:10 PM

300

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Apr 20 - 03:56 PM

Well, viruses contain protein and nucleic acid, they can reproduce and they are subject to natural selection. Debating as to whether they are alive or not is a bit pointless.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 28 Apr 20 - 06:01 PM

Debating as to whether they are alive or not is a bit pointless.

But do viruses have rights?
DC

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Apr 20 - 07:26 PM

Meanwhile dogs are getting it too. Besides cats, I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 04:14 AM

In NZ they are selling home deliveries of drinks called Lock Down

She be right, mate.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 08:20 AM

Hmmm... Smokers not at higher risk?

https://slate.com/technology/2020/04/coronavirus-smoking-nicotine.html

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 11:34 AM

And now hives.

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/covid-toes-hives-skin-conditions-133004928.html

I insist that my starting to get hives again after years is a sympton of stress and inactivity!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 11:41 AM

Aren’t hives those things that bees live in?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 12:08 PM

Nope. Them are skeps.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 12:14 PM

Nah, skeps are this big steel containers used to dump rubbish in....

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Rain Dog
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 12:19 PM

I always thought it was a hive of activity not inactivity.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 06:15 PM

Resdemivir makes progess reducing Covid symptoms by 4 days. Fauci gives it a thumbs up.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Apr 20 - 06:32 PM

2 things in the Telegrope today.

1) they say experts are predicting the second wave will come in the winter. Sorry NZ, you have it licked, fer now, but............ There is a feeling that summer warmth and humidity will suppress COVID-19. And 'flu & colds (which sometimes are coronaviruses) typically show a seasonal variation.

2) the biggest vaccine manufacturer in the world is starting production on the Oxford Uni version (currently in human trials), switching from mumps etc. The Indian company is privately owned and the billionaire owner is able to make the bet not having sareholders/dividends to concern him. If he wins, he wins big. The Indian market is big enough on its own. Mind you, as I understand the methodology, it takes months to get the first batch.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Apr 20 - 01:54 AM

Wiki on Remdesivir (re COVID-19)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Apr 20 - 04:57 PM

I had quite a disturbing email from my sister yesterday. In it she explained she can't speak as her throat is so sore. Her lungs are very painful and she can hardly walk without gasping for breath. She isn't sleeping well and is terribly worried that the virus has damaged her permanently. She first developed it about five weeks ago, and was discharged from the hospital two weeks ago, after having had ventilation and being on a drip.
She used to be so active and fit, but she fears her life has become a limited existence of tottering around in a feeble state.
I've heard that it can have long-term/permanent effects post-virally.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Apr 20 - 06:14 PM

Well that's difficult to say as the virus has only been around for four or five months. Take this as an optimistic remark.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 May 20 - 05:47 AM

Thanks Steve, I will. As you say, the virus hasn't been around long enough for the after-effects to be scientifically assessed. Anecdotal evidence doesn't carry much weight in my opinion. But being a retired doctor, she can see the gravity of her state, which is sad.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 May 20 - 09:59 AM

Forces à ta sœur, Senoufou.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 May 20 - 10:36 AM

I see Trump is back to claiming the virus originated in the Wuhan Institute of Virology (which, if i understand correctly, closed abruptly about the time we began to hear about the virus beginning to become serious in China).

Curiouser and curiouser...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 May 20 - 11:12 AM

Merci bcp Mrrzy. J'ai soucis pour elle franchement, elle plonge en désespoire.
It is curious Backwoodsman. If that Virology place was so insecurely managed, it should be permanently closed and the 'resident' viruses killed off. But what Trump says gets madder and madder doesn't it? I'm afraid his cheese has completely slid off his cracker!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 01 May 20 - 02:58 PM

Its not "curious" at all. Just President Lying-Sack-Of-Shit desperately trying to shift blame for his serial fuckups to anyone and everyone he can think of.

And the brain-dead Trumpist dickheads will believe his conspiracy theory bullshit.

Be afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: fat B****rd
Date: 01 May 20 - 03:58 PM

Sending late best thoughts Eliza.
Charlie x

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 01 May 20 - 04:04 PM

Understood but Senofou is using the word curious in a most wonderful way as in 'discovery' or seeking discovery.
Multiple organ damage may occur but there may be treatments for even that as in stem cell tretments from ones own body.
More time is needed.

Beware of rhetorical questions Mossback

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 May 20 - 04:32 PM

Thank you so much Charlie, your kind thoughts really help to reassure me.
At least my sister is eating properly - she has lots of batch-cooked meals in her freezer which she made long before the virus struck.
I see that Korea are now saying people cannot get Covid19 twice after all. That's encouraging isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 May 20 - 05:28 PM

Ooh that would be great.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 01 May 20 - 05:50 PM

Fauci has been working for decades to make a flu vaccine for ALL flu by working with the rod protein all flus share.

btw the White house has blocked Fauci from testifying in Congress

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 May 20 - 06:20 PM

"promised 100k tests a day by the end of April.

On 30th April, 122,347 tests were completed.

Promise made. Promise delivered"

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 01 May 20 - 06:29 PM

Beware of rhetorical questions Mossback

Beware of reality and factual information, Don - you're sliding into Trumpism.

Bozo: Bullshit Stated - Bullshit Delivered.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 May 20 - 07:12 PM

"On 30th April, 122,347 tests were completed."

Not so, Mudcat's Croydon Eye. A third of those tests were sent out by post and no-one knows how many were either received on time or actually carried out.   Comment is free but facts are sacred.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 May 20 - 02:30 AM

Well done @MattHancock   All the doubters vanquished and the lefties now will have to find another issue to spread doom and gloom #testing

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 May 20 - 03:34 AM

Many BAME are suffering COVID19 (& rickets) in England (& New York) due to mass economic/CAPITALIST immigration in defiance of EVOLUTION - i.e., darker skin DOES need more sunlight for enough vitaminD to be healthy & we are too far from the equator for them; my poem, from WalkaboutsVerse on "Repatriating"

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 May 20 - 03:42 AM

I'm determined to come out of lockdown with new stuff. I’ve just signed up for an online archeology course

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 May 20 - 03:50 AM

My husband had slight rickets when I first met him; his legs are a bit curved. He hadn't had a good diet from infancy (just white rice and a few vegetables).
The sun in his homeland is very strong of course, but it didn't seem to rectify the lack of vitamin D. He takes supplements now, and eats plenty of vitamin D-rich food.
Bonzo, archaeology sounds extremely interesting! I agree it's a good idea to profit from the Lockdown and study something.
(for me - Crumpetology?)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 May 20 - 03:57 AM

Archaeology eh, Bonz? A very appropriate course to be studied by an Anachronism.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 May 20 - 04:21 AM

Think about the wording!!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 May 20 - 09:29 AM

Bame?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 May 20 - 11:22 AM

Don't ask, he'll just send more bad poetry your way.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 02 May 20 - 11:33 AM

BAME:- Black, Asian, minority ethnic.

i.e. non white.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 May 20 - 12:18 PM

bonzo , i notice your posts are a trifle dogmatic

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 02 May 20 - 12:40 PM

Hows this for dogmatic

1. Oh my name it is nothin'
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I's taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And that land that I live in
Has God on its side.
2. Oh the history books tell it
They tell it so well
The cavalries charged
The Indians fell
The cavalries charged
The Indians died
Oh the country was young
With God on its side.
3. Oh the Spanish-American
War had its day
And the Civil War too
Was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes
I's made to memorize
With guns in their hands
And God on their side.
4. Oh the First World War, boys
It came and it went
The reason for fighting
I never did get
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don't count the dead
When God's on your side.
5. When the Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And then we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too
Have God on their side.
6. I've learned to hate the Russians
All through my whole life
If another war comes
It's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side.
7. But now we got weapons
Of biological dust
If fire them we're forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God's on your side.
8. Through isolation days
I've heard old war cries
between the blues and greys
Reds say $ is above lives
Some blame it on the yellow
You'll have to decide
Who rings most hollow
had God on his side.
9. So now as I'm coughin'
I'm weary as hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
no tongue can tell
I hear myself sayin
if God's on our side
He'll stop the next war
and won't let it hide.

Walkabout Don

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 May 20 - 05:38 AM

"bonzo , i notice your posts are a trifle dogmatic"

So they are! Our greyhound in her lockdownness decided to dig a hole in the lower level of our garden this morning until I bribed her away with treats!!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 May 20 - 08:27 AM

Ah, thanks. Like POC.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 03 May 20 - 09:09 AM

Kids being potty trained are virtually immune to Covid 19 so Trump suggested older people could shit their pants for similar results :^/

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 May 20 - 09:14 AM

Happy (silent) hypoxia

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/03/happy-hypoxia-unusual-coronavirus-effect-baffles-doctors

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 20 - 12:08 PM

The coming pandemic -Austrailian documentary version
Is highly informative!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 20 - 12:10 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/03/happy-hypoxia-unusual-coronavirus-effect-baffles-doctors

good catch Mrrzy

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 May 20 - 06:16 PM

Also this, which I find encouraging:

Hey I can do blickies again!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 20 - 06:21 AM

47D11 go team go

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 05 May 20 - 08:23 AM

Trump's push to prematurely open up could be deadly:

NYTimes

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 20 - 08:30 AM

I heard it will magically disappear in April
Is it April yet?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 May 20 - 09:44 AM

Children have been being misdiagnosed, rather than not getting it, as it seems to present differently:

Blicky

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 May 20 - 09:57 AM

It's not news yet but interesting research is being done on twins and siblings, seems symptomology roughly 50% genetics so far...

Blicky

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 May 20 - 11:27 AM

The twins and sibs cited in this article lived together in the same environment and had underlying health risks.

“These deaths alert people to the fact that this could be genetic, but when people live together they share an environment as well,” Spector said. The upshot is that twins who live together are more likely to have similar lifestyles and behaviours, from diet and exercise habits to how quickly they seek medical care. Twins are not generally less healthy than the wider population. . . . “When twins or siblings tragically die with Covid-19 that captures our attention, but that doesn’t mean there’s any particular reason to think twins or siblings are at greater risk.”

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 May 20 - 12:37 PM

Fatsos beware.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 06 May 20 - 02:27 PM

" Live And Let Die."

You can't make this shit up.

HEIL TRUMP!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 May 20 - 11:20 AM

Argh. My uncle is dying of old age and his old folks' home won't even let his children come say goodbye, let alone meeeeeeeee.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 20 - 05:07 PM

Latest lunacy from a USAian - a federal judge in the US has ordered Massachusetts authorities to allow gun shops to reopen, suggesting a rule to close them during the coronavirus crisis imposed an “improper burden” on the constitutional rights of citizens.

Gun shops were closed in March along with other businesses deemed non-essential.

However, some purchasers, retailers and gun rights groups sued, arguing it was an unconstitutional ban on acquiring firearms and ammunition for self-defence purposes.

US district judge Douglas Woodlock said he would direct the state to allow gun shops to reopen on Saturday with social distancing measures.

Absolute bollocks

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 May 20 - 01:39 PM

Seriously.

Also this:

Apparently blood thinners help, not with preventing it but with surviving it: blicky

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 08 May 20 - 04:54 PM

Guess who makes the world supply of blood thinners?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 08 May 20 - 05:08 PM

The realistic number of those infected in the US is somewhere between a minimum of 10 million and a maximum of unknown.

The stated infected numbers are arrant nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 May 20 - 06:46 PM

There is no "world supply" of blood thinners. Go chew some willow bark, or eat a lot of garlic, or befriend an organic chemist...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 May 20 - 03:48 AM

Wise thoughts concerning care homes:

"With and without irregularities what did they expect to happen to the geriatrics? Attendees can't keep social distance if they have to wash them, feed them, move them, changing sheets, medicating...
Doctors and employees don't live there... they have to move, they are potential virus carriers.

Just like us if we go visiting "unnecessarily"

And we can also infect being asymptomatic!"

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 May 20 - 05:16 AM

That's all true except for the fact that we're not allowed to visit. I used to see my mum four times a week. I haven't seen her now for two months. The other hazards you mention are very difficult to reduce.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 09 May 20 - 09:18 AM

The US relies on China for 90% of antibiotics.
https://www.cfr.org/blog/us-dependence-pharmaceutical-products-china

When it comes to Heparin
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-110hhrg53183/html/CHRG-110hhrg53183.htm

The US will not join or speak to the 8 Billion Euro vaccine quest.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 May 20 - 09:45 AM

Siegfried lost Roy

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 May 20 - 09:48 AM

Anyone heard of Hydronium ? H₃ O+

I was listening to a Youtube video about Lithium Ion batteries and the guy who developed GM's batteries until 7 years ago when he went to china to develop Lithium Ion for CATL. A big fish in battery technology who also majored in biology as a student.

The subject came up about Tygrus (Troy, Michigan) who had an improved method of obtaining it. No mention of volumes or cost.

But what was said is that it is benign to Eukaryotes (anything built from cells with a cell wall - like us) and kills 99.999% of viruses, in one minute (he pointed out kill was a misnomer but you get the idea). What was not said was its effect on bacteria (non eukaryotic), which I would compare to penicillin in that if it kills so many bacteria there are side-effects, like the shits.

My point here is: "is this the disinfectant that Twitler referred to?". Him being limited on any subject that doesn't include him.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 May 20 - 10:16 AM

Tygrus on LinkedIn

About Us
Tygrus is a platform technology company that has innovative, proprietary chemistries and systems for use across a wide range of industries from water and industrial waste stream remediation to industrial cleaning solutions and food processing.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 09 May 20 - 01:50 PM

Sounds like hydronium could also make a wet battery heavier than lithium. I'm spitballing like Trump.

Most water will have some hydronium in it

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 May 20 - 12:50 PM

An NHS worker we know, when asked - if the NHS Nightingale hospitals are empty, why are Covid 19 patients in our private hospitals, replied that maybe because it limits the travel of the virus. If people isolated as locally as possible, maybe it contains the virus to the area that they are in. Rather than taking the virus to another area where the virus already is too, and making the virus stronger there.

A lot of sense in that.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 11 May 20 - 02:41 PM

Shanghai opens Disneyland singing "its a microscopic world afterall"

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 May 20 - 04:35 PM

New symptomogies here.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 May 20 - 04:52 PM

More than four months of clinical experience across Asia, Europe and North America has shown the pathogen does much more than invade the lungs. “No one was expecting a disease that would not fit the pattern of pneumonia and respiratory illness,” said David Reich, a cardiac anesthesiologist and president of Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City.

It attacks the heart, weakening its muscles and disrupting its critical rhythm. It savages kidneys so badly some hospitals have run short of dialysis equipment. It crawls along the nervous system, destroying taste and smell and occasionally reaching the brain. It creates blood clots that can kill with sudden efficiency and inflames blood vessels throughout the body.

Talk about a moving target.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 May 20 - 02:40 AM

Covid toes
it can present with skin problems, a bit like chilblains I have heard.

We have seen almost a hive-like rash ............ It’s hard for us to know if this is a viral manifestation or an immune response

- Right Oh, right toe.






I'll get my surgical gown.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 12 May 20 - 02:47 PM

Cytokine Storm

How an immune system has evolved, developed, how efficient, super efficient or lacking all play a role in the response to Covod 19. It is not surprising that various immune reponses act differently.

Sorry that merely understanding this does not help.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 May 20 - 05:31 AM

It attacks the heart, weakening its muscles and disrupting its critical rhythm.

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell I would dispute the contention that we would not expect it to affect any of our muscles. Ask anyone who had ME/Yuppy 'flu/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. The virus (Epstein Barr, Cocksackie B, etc) lives in the muscles and every time you get a cold the muscles weaken. It re-awakens the virus. FWIW Glandular Fever is a manifestation of the Epstein Barr virus and that is a chronic condition.

In the 80s, my doctor thought it was psychological, I insisted on a second opinion, I had the tests, and the specialist said "you had a virus". "Which one?" says I. "We don't know".

Thanks - but that is what I told the bloody doctor in the first place.
3 years later I saw a TV prog and my evidence fitted about ½ of all symptoms. In a syndrome you don't get them all.

My solution at the time was to fight it, eg run up stairs and get the pain at the top, not on each step. Apparently fighting psychologically is deemed a good methodology. But how fit would I be now without that burden? Who knows, you habituate to the new norm, like a poorer short term memory. It is what it is.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 13 May 20 - 09:24 AM

Men have more of an enzyme that helps Covid to enter cells of the heart kidney and lungs.

Avoid buffets like the plague.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 13 May 20 - 08:32 PM

Good News - The death toll was overestimated by half according to Trump and Dr. Birx.

The 'inflated' death total included people who only had the virus but died from falling down stairs, or that they were going to die anyway and didn't die directly from Corona virus.

Dr. Fauci said the opposite. The numbers are under estimated.

Trump responded "I like the numbers where they are, I don't want the numbers to double. Dr. Fauci is unacceptable."

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 May 20 - 12:52 AM

Donuel, I sometimes enjoy your posts but among the things for which I am grateful is that you are not a journalist. Your reporting is specious.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 14 May 20 - 01:27 AM

Since Dave Berry is retired I gotta do my own Dave Berry.
By using anachronistic facts, the absurdity shines even brighter.
Hey Ebbie this milk smells funny...you drink it.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 May 20 - 09:53 AM

Barry, dude.

Loud talking:https://m.jpost.com/health-science/loud-speech-can-leave-coronavirus-in-air-for-up-to-14-minutes-study-627972/amp

Blicky

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 May 20 - 01:46 PM

Former CDC Intel Officer Dr. Rishi Desai on Why It's Hard to Get a Grip on the Coronavirus Pandemic

It is 50 minutes long, but one thing caught my attention. The doc was saying the virus, when it finds its way to the bloodstream, results in a reduced ability for the blood to transport oxygen. Which supports the contention I have seen elsewhere (and posted here) that ventilating, per se, is not that effective.

And Sir Peter Piot (formost authority on pandemics!) has done videos on the effects of the virus that he has only just got through, er still recovering!
He tells of kidney damage, lack of strength, and more.

When you put it together with the lack of oxygen in the blood, - organ damage is understandable. Peter Piot is saying "You don't want this disease".

I believe him, I believe him!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 May 20 - 01:51 PM

lack of oxygen in the blood, and headaches? wasn't that one of the symptoms?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 14 May 20 - 04:08 PM

There is a benefit to putting patients in a coma with a ventllator but it benefits doctors and nurses in terms of being able to tend to people who are conscious and breathing. It is true that sometimes forcing air into sore lungs is beneficial.
It is partly a matter of emotional relief. Some people are stressed hearing a baby cry. Hearing 200 people choking to death is stressful.
I would not condemn anyone who has to make survival choices when there are so few choices one can make.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 May 20 - 07:56 AM

Good views of US data here

https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/USA-TRENDS/dgkvlgkrkpb/index.html?utm_source=digg

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 May 20 - 08:19 AM

And international pretty graphs here

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 15 May 20 - 07:39 PM

Lets decide not to rush to a vaccine
When Gerald Ford was President we had an epidemic of swine flu. They rushed a vaccine to market in only six months. We got to see Gerry get his shot on TV. Something else was brewed inside the eggs that grew the vaccine. It was a rare nerurological disease called petite Barr syndrome. I got the shot in the morning and by the time I was doing the dishes after lunch the brew reached my motor nerves. It was as quick as a light switch. One second I'm wiping a dish and suddenly I was on the floor with the odd sensation of no sensation of controling my muscles. I thought of my cello teacher who was struck by polio for his lifetime. It was months before the reason for my collapse was reluctantly made clear. I had time for many thoughts and wonders.
The biggest wonder was discovering the automatic switch to somehow raise myself back to standing on my feet.

It was similar to being shot at but missed. But thats another story.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 May 20 - 09:32 AM

And what about llamas? You guys hear about this?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/16/llama-coronavirus-antibodies-study-benefits

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 May 20 - 12:54 PM

Interesting that Croydon University Hospital now only holds 50 coronavirus cases - down from 250 a short while ago, thus proving success of lockdown.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 May 20 - 01:30 PM

Good news, that.

Interesting advice here:

https://www.inverse.com/mind-body/are-you-wearing-gloves-a-mask-to-the-shops-you-might-be-doing-it-wrong/amp

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 May 20 - 05:55 AM

https://www.inverse.com/mind-body/are-you-wearing-gloves-a-mask-to-the-shops-you-might-be-doing-it-wrong/amp

From what I am hearing, vitamin D is generally helpful in limiting the widespreadness/severity of a lot of viruses. My question is regarding the correlation between the seasonal variations of 'flu-like infections and vitamin D production when sunshine is more prevalent. I feel sure it has been well researched, - enough for me to get the tablets, despite the sunny days we are experiencing. Lockdown means I am indoors much more. And dosage levels and toxicity are far apart with vitamin D, apparently. eg 15 µg cf 100 max safe recommended, though even that is not widely certain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#Immune_system

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 May 20 - 06:53 AM

"Croydon University"

Surely the juxtaposition of these two words is an oxymoron...? :-)

I should think that the government is hoping against hope that summer will largely nobble the virus, at least for a time. It isn't easy to work out why some viruses are seasonal. Sunshine and Vitamin D may be a factor but it's hard to pin down as such. I suppose high UV levels will help to shorten the viability of viruses on outdoor surfaces, including human skin and clothing, and in aerosols. As they say in Tesco, every little helps.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 18 May 20 - 07:29 AM

What are the results of the pandemic?:

The US is 4.3 % of the global population

but has 30% of the deaths from Covid globally

Today
Global deaths      315,000
United States deaths 95,000

WE ARE #1

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 May 20 - 08:44 AM

Go

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 May 20 - 08:45 AM

Oops twitchy.

Canada crashed plane doing thank-you flyover, oops. Let's just all clap at 7pm, ok?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 May 20 - 08:21 AM

Dr. Agent-Orange MD at it again, recommending Hydroxychloroquine and boasting that he takes it to prevent being infected by Covid-19.

And Americans seriously propose to elect this completely insane geriatric to be their President again?

God Help America!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 19 May 20 - 09:25 AM

With any luck, the dumb bastard will kill himself.

Unless, of course, its simply one more lie to gull his moron cult members.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 May 20 - 09:34 AM

Ha! What’s one more lie amongst the myriad that have gone before...??

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 May 20 - 09:58 AM

Speaking of lies...

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/05/world/worldometer-coronavirus-mystery/

Blicky

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 May 20 - 11:40 AM

For weeks I've been trying to stave off the issue of a dodgy tooth until this lot is over. So far so good. When I was at the B&M (aaargh) checkout this morning with my two bottles of mouthwash, the woman told me excitedly that, as long as I kept using it, I wouldn't catch Coronavirus. Poor woman.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 May 20 - 12:00 PM

Good luck with that tooth!

John Glenn's widow, at 100. Merde.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 19 May 20 - 01:06 PM

If you see a rabbit during their outbreak let me know

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 May 20 - 09:28 PM

Just whay we need. Rabbit Ebola.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 May 20 - 02:32 AM

Dr. Agent-Orange MD at it again, recommending Hydroxychloroquine and boasting that he takes it to prevent being infected by Covid-19.

‘This will kill you’:

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 May 20 - 07:21 AM

Dr. Strangevil declared the highest number of infections and death has earned the USA a Badge of Honor.

Also down is up. evil is good, death is best and ignorance is genius.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 May 20 - 11:32 AM

Oh for cryin' out loud.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/05/trump-worlds-most-coronavirus-cases-badge-of-honor-good-bad-thing.amp

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 May 20 - 11:43 AM

And worse: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/05/national-guard-deployments-to-fight-coronavirus-will-end-day-before-benefits-kick-in.html

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 May 20 - 11:55 AM

And different:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/20/europe/coronavirus-mink-netherlands-testing-intl/index.html

The bat at the Mudcat Tavern is happy to read this.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 20 May 20 - 01:31 PM

Somebody help me out here....

One of the legitimate uses for hydroxychloroquine is the treatment of lupus. But lupus patients are having a hard time getting their prescriptions filled because of a shortage caused by people using the drug as an unproven and very dubious treatment for COVID-19.

What I would like to know is this:

Hydroxychloroquine is a regulated prescription drug. The only way to get it is if a doctor signs a prescription. So how are enough people getting hold of it to create a shortage? Are doctors not ethically barred from prescribing potentially harmful drugs when there is no evidence that they will benefit a patient? Has advertising prescription drugs to the general public so broken the system that a patient feels he has a right to simply tell a doctor what drug to prescribe? And does the doctor then just write the scrip, consequences be damned?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 May 20 - 01:39 PM

You probably don't know many doctors, Royals, Reality TV stars, CEO's or Congressmen.
They can all be surprisingly stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 20 May 20 - 03:48 PM

You're right, Don. I guess I tend to believe that doctors are inherently intelligent and moral creatures. Probably watched too many episodes of "Marcus Welby, MD."

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 May 20 - 04:04 PM

If you'd watched M*A*S*H you'd know there are quite a few Frank Burns out there.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 May 20 - 07:32 PM

While there were more screw ups on ER, my fav is House MD.
IRL how many docs prescribed OXY, Celebrex, Farixa (causes genital gangrene) or worse things...

There are more doctors who do not listen - than virus in 1 pound of soil. I can't prove that but you get my point.
Nurses are not hired to hawk snake oil, skin creams or Hydroxy cut.

And while I'm ranting, Covid 19 has exceeded the number of symptoms one disease should have. Its being more of a hog than Swine flu. :<[

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 21 May 20 - 08:23 AM

The Navaho nation in New Mexico is the largest hot spot in the country

My father married a pure Navaho
My people were ashamed where ever we go
The Indians said I was white by law
The White Man always called me "Indian Squaw"
Half-breed, that's all I ever heard
Half-breed, how I learned to hate the word
Half-breed, she's no good they warned
Both sides were against me since the day I was born
We never settled, went from town to town
When you're not welcome you don't hang around
The other children always laughed at me
"Give her a feather, she's Navaho"
Half-breed, that's all I ever heard
Half-breed, how I learned to hate the word
Half-breed, she's no good they warned
Both sides were against me since the day I was born
We weren't accepted and I felt ashamed
Nineteen I left them, tell me who's to blame
My life since then is reservations
But I can't run away from what I am
Half-breed, that's all I ever heard
Half-breed, how I learned to hate the word
Half-breed, she's no good they warned
Both sides were against me since the day I was born
Si-lence, that's all that I hear
Si-Lence, with no intensive care
Si-lence, cuz the virus killed them all
Now one side's against me till the day that I fall

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 22 May 20 - 01:51 AM

I am very concerned about people just blowing off hydroxychloraquine and chloraquine (I will combine them here and call them HX) because trump endorsed it. And might profit from it. Of course he will. Although I would bet he would profit more off the very expensive remsivir??? HX is taken by millions of people per year. It has been around since the 1940s. It works in synergy with zinc and vitamin d is a good supplement. They know what the safety parameters are in a non-diseased population, in a population with malaria and a population with lupus or RA. They don't know parameters of it taken with other medicines, vitamins, etc. They don't know everything about treating other diseases yet. They probably do not know the optimal dose. They probably don't know at what stage of the disease it is most effective, and the varying doses needed per stage. Many countries that use it believe earlier will prevent advanced stages in many people. So there is much that is known and much that is not known. You do have to throw spaghetti at the wall in a violent, fatal pandemic. They say doctors and pharmacists are getting prescriptions for themselves and families and contributing to the shortage. They should protect the supply for people with lupus, although faced with a painful but not immediately fatal disease vs. imminent death, it would be a hard choice. I have read, confirm for yourself, that it is very cheap, broadly manufactured, manufactured in places with high standards, such as switzerland etc. Producing too much would not be a problem because it could be used for malaria. Read up on the usage in other countries. Read what doctors say. Keep Trump totally out of the picture. If he says applesauce works you can bet he has cornered the applesauce market and will profit. Ignore trump, read what the doctors say, and ask again and again how many of these terrible heart problems are they actually seeing ? Some to be sure. Should give EKG first if there is time. There has not been time to do everything perfectly. Giving it to someone to prevent malaria vs. giving it to someone on death's door is two different things. Read everything you can and don't politicize this and write off what seems to be a life-saving medicine. And I am not really into abuse and I will as usual screen through to be sure I don't read what one person has to say and be cautious about others.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 May 20 - 07:10 AM

When you are first told there is nothing you can do but hide, it is reassuring to do somthing. I wouldn't take away anyone's symbol of hope be it prayer or an inoculous promise of help.

The trouble begins with harmful promises. If a low dose non injurious treatment by green laser light, the same one at strength used in surgury, was proven to help I too might take the risk. When a treatment was proven unsafe in the hands of people who think more is better I would not take the risk.

Overall, trusting a Shaman, disabled president or a hunch is not the way to go for the enlightened.

You are free to choose to be enlightened or an idiot. Some people do not have a choice.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 22 May 20 - 10:13 AM

I am very concerned about people just blowing off hydroxychloraquine and chloraquine .......write off what seems to be a life-saving medicine.

There. Is. No. Evidence. That. Either. Drug. Is. Of. Any. Value. In. Treating. Coronavirus.

Has nothing to do with the opinion of the turd in the White House.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 May 20 - 11:53 AM

Exactly, Mossback.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 May 20 - 03:57 PM

NOT exactly .
Resdemivir is an anti viral drug developed in the fight against Ebola and has the scientific 'blessing' of Dr. Fauci and others. It is known when it is most efficatious, as it blocks viral infection of additional cells.    Let the trumpers buy up all the hydroxy and leave the resdem for us. :~}

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 May 20 - 06:48 AM

the problem with any drug that people think will work. It can become the de facto, the go to, and people en mass may not look to other things. Like ones that have some evidence-based efficacy.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 May 20 - 08:42 AM

It does weird clotting things to placentas: https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/health/placenta-covid-19-wellness/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 May 20 - 03:16 PM

Your mission if you decide to accept it, is to finesses a quarter to half a million people to kill themselves for the benefit of the treasury dept. We will disavow any knowledge of your mission.
Operation 'reopen' should prove more ambitious than the failed self deportation and build the wall missions. We suggest you begin by fomenting war betwen the govenors.
This post will self destruct in one view.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 May 20 - 07:03 PM

I've been looking at various data sites, and Virginia seems to have about a third of the average/typical death rate, roughly .02 to everybody else's .06.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 May 20 - 09:30 PM

No proof but Virginia probably lies better. It is nearly impossible to get the # of infections perfectly between (.02-.03) even with perfect testing. But its better to be lucky than right. My county has more dead than the entire state of VA?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 May 20 - 11:03 AM

Charlottesville itself has 4%.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 May 20 - 07:27 PM

localities are harder to manipulate than fed controled numbers from the states. Egad I sound like a conspiracy dude.
You do relize Trump has the pandemic numbers official classified.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 27 May 20 - 05:31 AM

The President of Austria, Alexander van der Bellen, has been fined for breaking the country's current rules re. Corona virus "lock-down". According to the BBC, a policeman noticed the President and his guests at a Restaurant after midnight, although such premises have to close by 11pm. The President has both apologised, and agreed to pay the fine and reimburse the Restaurant's owner should he too be fined. How different from the home lives of our own dear leaders. He should have worn a very expensive and distinctive waistcoat, so that the Polis would know his place.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 May 20 - 05:45 AM

Asa Hutchinson "americans need to be disiplined to face reopening"
???
We NEED to reopen our churches, brothels, tattoo parlors and casinos
No matter what people want

Twitter has begun to add fact checking links to Trump Tweets in the interest of public health and safety.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 May 20 - 01:35 PM

Well, my poor poor sister has regressed considerably. (I got an update this morning.) Her lungs are filling up all night long and she's fighting for every breath, so isn't sleeping. She can hardly dress herself with the exhaustion and weakness.
Anyone getting fed up with staying at home and social distancing etc should read her emails. They're heartbreaking. If people could only see what this illness can do, they'd obey the rules and support their continuation as long as necessary.
It isn't just 'surviving' the thing, it's the possibly permanent damage to one's health that is very concerning.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 May 20 - 01:45 PM

I've not heard of such an extensive exerience of covid 19 before.
Did she mention anything about reinfection or other diagnosis?
May she
get well soon ALREADY!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 May 20 - 03:48 PM

Thank you so much Donuel.
I've heard of many people who just can't seem to get rid of the lung problem. I sometimes look at Mumsnet (mainly women's comments) and there's a thread there called 'Covid Lungs'. The thread has filled to the 1000 maximum several times, with countless women still struggling several weeks/months after contracting Covid19.
I think, from what my sister has said, that the virus actually damages the lung tissue, and this can cause lasting health problems.
All the more reason for everyone to Stay Safe, stick to Lockdown and obey the rulings. It's tedious, but these health repercussions are so much worse.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 May 20 - 07:57 AM

This makes an interesting point - loud music in pubs is a hazard, since it forces people to shout, which spreads the virus. The same must go for all gatherings with high amplification.

Superspreader events

I found the recent accounts of spread in American meat packing plants interesting - they say it's because they're noisy and workers have to shout. When I worked in one of the biggest abattoirs in the world in the 1970s, NOBODY shouted - you walked up to people if you had something to say. The reason being that it was SO noisy that shouting was hopeless.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: fat B****rd
Date: 28 May 20 - 09:47 AM

Sending best thoughts as always, Eliza
Charlie X

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 May 20 - 10:59 AM

Thank you so much Charlie!
She has always been such a powerhouse of energy, with many activities and physical sports, and it's so worrying how weak and helpless she's become. I thought she was nearly back to normal, but now this.
At least she is very popular in her Scottish village in Tayside and everyone is rallying round with deliveries and support.
It's a dire warning isn't it to do everything one can to avoid getting this blooming Lurgy?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 May 20 - 05:06 PM

J'en suis navré(e) ma chère Senoufou! I had been worrying. I hear truly nasty things about recovering after being really deeply ill with this virus, permanent organ damage, horrible stuff. La pauvre. And poor you, too.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: leeneia
Date: 29 May 20 - 03:26 PM

Jack, thanks for the comments about noisy environments and shouting. Along those lines, I'll mention that the bishops of my church are against resuming services, and one reason is that people singing can send germs 26 feet. Surely they must mean opera singers, but still...

I have read that another problem with the packing plants is that the workers are so close together.
================
Senoufou, I'll say a prayer for your sister. I hope her former athletic and energetic activities provide a strong foundation of good health which will enable to overcome this new challenge.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 May 20 - 03:36 PM

Senoufou we send our best wishes to your sister.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 29 May 20 - 03:46 PM

Thank you Mrrzy, leeneia and Bonzo for your kind wishes. It's lovely to have your support on here. I'm many hundreds of miles away from my sister, and her daughters too are far away in Edinburgh and can't get to see their mum. She said in her e mail that she can't even talk on the phone.
Obviously, many people recover well,and others have no symptoms and don't realise they've had 'it'. I'm not sure about this 'easing of the lockdown' which the UK government is setting in motion.
People may do as they wish, but I'm a bit scared to expose myself to catching Covid19 and will probably continue to stay away from public places.
I sincerely hope everyone on Mudcat stays safe too.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 30 May 20 - 08:20 AM

Los Vegas prostitutes are now offering curb side pick up.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 May 20 - 10:26 AM

And the bat from the Tavern is happy to read about pangolins again!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jun 20 - 05:16 AM

If you remember the pandemic it continues at a 11% rise. There is no flattening of a curve.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Jun 20 - 11:09 AM

"Surely they must mean opera singers ... "

Remember, Leeneia, that a solo singer is one thing,
but a choir/chorus of singers is quite another.
Ask the music director of a really serious church choir
or of a community or professional chorus --
don't take my word for it.

Where I am staying, once or twice a week
a chorus director, professional caliber, pays a visit
and he and I talk about many things.
He can tell you
that choruses of singers throughout this great land
are being silenced because of the fear of coronavirus.

There are some tragic stories out there ,
the director told me one such,
about a chorus rehearsal with no masks or handwashing or anything,
as a consequence of which
four chorus members died of COVID-19
and many more were stricken.
If what Eliza/Senoufou is relating applies to these people,
some of them will find it difficult to impossible
to sing the way that they used to sing.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Thompson
Date: 02 Jun 20 - 06:17 PM

I'm very sorry to hear about your sister, Senoufou. If she lies on her front (though maybe not while sleeping - I don't know?) it's supposed to give the lungs a better chance to fill up with oxygenated air than if she's lying on her back.

If anyone is interested in donating a fiver, there's a collection for the Navajo and Hopi people - it's probably linked in this piece here about how Irish people are donating in large numbers, as a kind of pass-it-on payback for the decency of the Choctaw, who collected money and sent it to us during the Famine.

What one reliable authority here, Luke O'Neill, is saying is that it's almost impossible to catch the virus outdoors, but people should mask up when indoors; shouting, running and sweating make you puff out more nasty virusy breath if you're infected.

I've also heard that the majority of infections are caused by 'super-spreaders', which is supposed to make limit the infection easier, though I don't see how unless they're incarcerated like the unfortunate Mary Malone, 'Typhoid Mary'.

Subject: E: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 03 Jun 20 - 07:47 PM

I am in no way recommending this so check it out yourselves, but someone sent me something about lying over an exercise ball relieving some of the lung stress. it was put out by a physical therapist.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 03 Jun 20 - 09:34 PM

About as effective as chloroquine.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 07:52 AM

The protests cannot be good for curve-flattening...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 07:54 AM

Just read George Floyd tested positive on autopsy.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 08:47 AM

Thank you Thompson for your kindness. I expect she has tried various positions/ways to improve her breathing (she's a retired consultant anaesthetist, so knows about O2 levels and so on). Her latest e mail yesterday said she has used a pulse-oxymeter thingy, and her levels are quite low. Also, her lungs are filling up again, but she's managing to clear them each morning by heavy coughing.
She's naturally quite depressed at the thought that she might never regain the robust health she enjoyed recently before this virus (she's a lot younger than me).
Please everyone, keep vigilant and try to prevent ever catching the blooming plague!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 10:18 AM

George Floyd was symptom-free and the virus played no part in his death. Needs saying.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 12:14 PM

Exactly Steve. Insinuating perhaps that 'he would have died anyway'?
Sister has just e mailed this afternoon to say she tottered out to her car (Ford Focus) to go for a brief spin and recharge the battery. She felt uplifted to see the Scottish countryside, and stopped at a re-opened garden centre, bought one or two plants and went home.
Breathing a bit better, but the weakness still debilitating.
This may be an improvement - sincerely hope so!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 12:58 PM

Insinuating perhaps that 'he would have died anyway'?

That precise canard - that "people would have died anyway" has been and still is a major Republican talking point.

The "party of Lincoln" (yeah, right) really has devolved into absolute shit.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 01:06 PM

It was just a new datum. Nothing about cause of death. He may have infected the cops, though.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 05:05 PM

Oh great - my blood group (A-) is way more likely to suffer respiratory failure, if infected, than others.

https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20200603/Blood-group-type-may-affect-susceptibility-to-COVID-19-respiratory-failure.aspx

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jun 20 - 06:02 PM

better quarantine those cops

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 03:37 PM

Just to let you know this is a telephone call a friend received today. Be aware folks.
‘Good morning, I'm calling from the NHS track and trace service. According to our system, you are likely to have been in close proximity to someone who has tested postive for COVID-19. This means that you now need to self-isolate for 7 days and take a COVID-19 test.'
'OK. Can you tell me who that person was?'
'I'm not able to tell you that. That is confidential information.'
'Right. Um... so ....'
'But you do need to be tested within the next 72 hours. So can I just get the best mailing address so that we can send a kit to you?'
'Ok (gives address)'
'Thank you - and I just need to take a payment card so that we can finalise this and send the kit to you.'
'Sorry - a payment card? I though this was all free?'
'No - I'm afraid not. There is a one-off fee of £500 for the kit, and test results. Could you read off the long card number for me, please, when you're ready.'
'No - that's not right. This is part of the NHS so there's no charge.'
'I'm afraid there is. Can you give me the card number please - this is very important, and there are penalties for not complying.'
Puts phone down.
This is how scammers work. And vulnerable people will fall for it.
Don't fall for it...!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 04:05 PM

Wow. A$$holes.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Jun 20 - 04:21 AM

Just read George Floyd tested positive on autopsy.

He was also "said" to have had COVID. Either way, if so, his lung function would have been depressed, and was vulnerable.
I saw a picture of a man who was said to have been knocked over by police in the current protest and left to bleed to death. Avoidable deaths both.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 08 Jun 20 - 06:21 AM

I saw a picture of a man who was said to have been knocked over by police in the current protest and left to bleed to death.

If you are referring to the 75 year old in Buffalo, all the reports that I have read say that he is in a serious but stable condition. Has he died since?

We must be careful about spreading false news, even if it is unintentional.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jun 20 - 10:12 PM

Although nothing seems topic related lately, he is in serious but stable condition. He hit hard enough to bleed from his ears and a small laceration.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 06:51 AM

The notion of the amount of viral load is being addressed as to the degree of serious infection. The viral load shedding is highest at the onset of the earliest symptons. It is still transmitted by an infected asymptomatic person but not as high.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 08:06 AM

Has he died since?<>

On reflection the caption may have read "left to bleed to death". The picture was certainly a lifeless looking person face down, and no one in attendances. Death is not a word you ignore. And the caption does imply something.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 10:50 AM

And the O blood group is less likely to get it at all. Goes along with A- being more likely to develop serious complications if they get it. Many sources, google ABO blood coronavirus.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 11:43 AM

Wonder why NIH yanked its funding but anyway:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/nih-halted-study-unveils-its-massive-analysis-bat-coronaviruses

Oddly near a Bats Make Tequila thread in my newsfeed:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/14/world/bat-facts-cnn-special-coronavirus-scn/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jun 20 - 06:19 PM

A ship's doctor on a corona quarantine Pirate vessel
has pleaded for more help struggling to lower the aRrrrr rate...




.. if that amuses anyone, it'll be a mudcatter...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jun 20 - 07:07 PM

President Bonespur has come up with the cure for the pandemic. Who knew it would be this simple.

trump-on-coronavirus-if-we-stop-testing-right-now-wed-have-very-few-cases if any

He must have had a 3 Lysol lunch.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Jun 20 - 08:14 PM

Pfr... Snicker.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 06:33 AM

I'm surprised you did not know that Trump hollowed out NIH of its pandemic research. He then zeroed out funding to WHO.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 06:48 AM

Why the R rate is bullshit: suppose I was the only person in Cornwall with Coronavirus. I then give it to three people in my house. The R rate in Cornwall is then 3. So let's lock the whole country down again.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 03:37 PM

An old steroid was found to reduce mortality by 1/3 among the sickest patients according to a finding at Oxford University.
Way to go UK
The steroid is a dextro...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Thompson
Date: 17 Jun 20 - 01:50 PM

Today had the highest figures worldwide as it rages on in Brazil and the US.
Vitamin D is said to increase resistance to the virus; mushrooms are one of the few vegetarian foods that can make this vitamin - if you expose them to sunlight for 15 minutes.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jun 20 - 06:19 PM

I posted to this and it went into the ether, so here goes again, quite likely not verbatim:

If you want your vitamin D, stick your bare arms, bare legs and bare arse into the summer sunshine for fifteen minutes. There's no charge, and you can save the mushroom money...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jun 20 - 06:27 PM

By the way, mushrooms are commonly grown in a medium containing animal manure. Just thought I'd mention it in case any vegans are reading...

Sticking your bare skin into the summer sunshine for a quarter of an hour daily is totally vegan, and fairly sensual...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 01:27 AM

Texas' big-city mayors ask Gov. Greg Abbott for power to impose face mask rules

The mayors of nine of Texas' biggest cities urged Gov. Greg Abbott in a letter Tuesday to grant them the "authority to set rules and regulations" mandating face masks during the coronavirus pandemic.

As COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations continue to climb in Texas, an executive order from Abbott bans local governments from imposing fines or criminal penalties on people who don't wear masks in public. When the order went into effect, orders from counties and cities requiring masks became toothless. The mayors wrote that many people in their cities continue to refuse to wear face masks and that "a one-size-fits-all approach is not the best option" when it comes to regulating the issue.

The letter is signed by Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner, San Antonio Mayor Ron Nirenberg, Austin Mayor Steve Adler, Dallas Mayor Eric Johnson, Fort Worth Mayor Betsy Price, El Paso Mayor Dee Margo, Arlington Mayor Jeff Williams, Plano Mayor Harry LaRosiliere and Grand Prairie Mayor Ron Jensen.

The letter asks Abbott to consider allowing each city's local officials to decide whether to require the use of face coverings in order to prevent the spread of the virus.

On Tuesday, the state reported a record-breaking total of 2,518 patients hospitalized with the virus. The seven-day average of new cases has also reached new heights in recent days.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 09:07 AM

The blood group data has hit the mainstream news. A is more susceptible, both to the virus and its complications, and O is more resistant.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 09:37 AM

Risk factors are just another underlying condition and is more speculative than a guarantee.

Suppose an America devoid of any scientific knowledge or heads up about a pandemic but with its present population. Infection would reach about 60% of 370 million people. Death rates would be several million.

While my scenario is impossible, it could be worse.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 06:22 PM

In my neihborhood they are doing stem cell research to combat the cytokine storm to help the sickest victims.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 07:52 AM

Covid messes with Texas as hospitals see 95% increase in patients

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 12:44 PM

Almost 1 in 100 have had or have the virus in the US.
That is so generalized that it doesn't mean your area applies.

The comedian Bill Mahre generalizes further that Americans are not healthy enough to deal with the virus well because of diet. On Meal Time with Bill Mahre I think he goes overboard with his polemics.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 01:07 PM

Eviction freezes are starting to expire State by State.
Its not just about food and health security alone anymore.
Congressional action is needed.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 05:52 PM

There's a guy here who reckons house prices in the US are rising because: 1) low interest rates are encouraging buyers (millennials) & 2) sellers have taken there's of the market unwilling to allow potential COVIDers to breach the shelter in place. Demand higher than supply, up goes the price.

And I can't see that mechanism being any different in the UK.

So we may see an overheated market, with a swift readjustment. Now wasn't that what happened in 2008? Co-factors are different but the effect will be the same. Second wave (COVID), double dip recession?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 06:01 PM

In 2008 the watch dogs colluded with real estate to make any loan with a pulse. Then bundle the mess as an investment.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 06:40 PM

At the Trump Rally there are optional masks
Mandatory: temp taking

The snack shops have optional Milk of Amnesia
Mandatory: all drinks are laced with oxytocin

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 12:04 PM

The actual news report of this family tragedy is here: one birthday party, 18 people ill with COVID-19, two elderly parents in hospital

This is what Stilly River Sage has been prophesying for months now.


My summary of the story, for those who care to read it:
A middle-aged volunteer EMT is married to a doctor, and is part of
a large family, including his parents in their 80s.
Their adult nephew wanted to host a surprise birthday party, in person,
for their daughter-in-law, turning 30.
So of course the EMT and his doctor-spouse were invited.
The middle-aged couple
"refused to go to the party due to safety reasons."
The EMT is quoted saying:
"We knew this was going to happen,
I mean this whole time this has been going on,
we've been terrified."

Today, this couple, having avoided the event, are in good health.
But the EMT's parents are in the hospital, and may not make it.
Grandma, meaning the EMT's mother,
"stopped by the party to drop something off."
She was there long enough to become infected with coronavirus,
and she then went home,
where her husband became infected.
Grandpa is now in ICU, on life support, and
thisclose to "being put on a ventilator."

Quoting the report:
"Among those infected are two young children,
two grandparents,
a cancer patient,
and [the EMT's] parents, who are in their 80s ...
18 people in the family have tested positive for COVID-19."

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 05:00 PM

read up again about zelenko protocol. Warning...he is not a handsome model type of doctor and that goes against him unfortunately. Read about the people who have been saved with his protocol, zinc plus hcq plus azt plus perhaps vitamin d. read about the non rich countries around the world who have fought the plague with this protocol..countries that will not have a chance with more expensive drugs. read about the faked studies that are the basis for the slander against the protocol..where they gave six or more times the usual dose..and are said to have used a drug with a similar name to HCq. Ooops..so many of them died..it is supposed to be administered when symptoms erupt..not near death. Go on twitter and follow every single doctor and epidemiologist you can find, especially those from other countries. Read countries that have defied WHO. Follow the money that leads to more expensive drugs and vaccines. Follow the political hatred towards trump..justified usually but not here. Do not give heed to what newscasters, politicians, movie stars and home schoolers have to say. We are talking.HCQ by itself has known risks and they are rare and it is a nonpatented, easily produced, inexpensive drug. Now, you of course have to look at interactions with other drugs and other disease states and underlying conditions and stage of disease but they shut down studies that are trying to sort all this out. It is a very complex situation, corrupted by well, corruption of some sort. We are permitting the deaths of thousands of our own citizens..not pretty deaths either...and contributing to death and disease of millions of non-americans. I will not give links People will have to look at this by themselves. It is rapidly evolving, befouled research and it is too complicated. So find experts and follow them.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 05:31 PM

Great, Mary. More voodoo, unscientific "medicine". You working for Trump now, or for Pence?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 05:41 PM

And per the CDC, the number of cases is probably 10x what we thought. Good news, actually, as it makes the death toll 10x smaller, percentage-wise.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 05:44 PM

OK, Mary, I did what you asked & looked up the so-called Zelenko Protocol & Dr Zelenko on half a dozen responsible websites.

Didn't take too long to discover that Zelenko is a not too bright lying blogger pushing unsubstantiated, fact-free, harmful bullshit.

Just what we need in these times of crisis- another lying sack of s*** like Trump conning suckers with pseudo-science.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 05:45 PM

Also, this:


Blicky

Fox News and their ilk caused a lot of the problem....

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 05:47 PM

it makes the death toll 10x smaller, percentage-wise.

Yup - a mere 150,000 and growing in the U.S. alone. Good news indeed.

Damn near cause for celebration.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 06:03 PM

Governor Abbott in Texas is realizing he's going to have to start acting like Cuomo in New York. This "opening up Texas" train is off the rails.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 06:59 PM

Don't canonize Cuomo just yet, Gilly.

In my immediate area 80% of the businesses are not complying with the mandate that customers wear masks and about 25% don't enforce the mask rule for their employees as well as their customers.

These businesses have been reported, weeks ago, and nothing has been done.

Nor has Cuomo made masks mandatory, period, with penalties attached for non-compliance, as should be done.

Stay tuned: theres going to be a resurgence of Covid-19 in New York, they'll have to shut the whole damn state down again - and I hope that'll make the anti-mask morons happy.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 07:17 PM

I'm not exactly anti-mask, but I don't wear a mask unless forced to do so (as in my medical centre). I don't know whether that makes me a moron. The reason I won't wear a mask is that I think that at best, any benefit will be far outweighed by the improper wearing of masks, the inadequate and gappy nature of most masks I've seen and the complacency which an awful lot of mask-wearers appear to be afflicted with. Wear your mask if you want. But you'll have to pass a law before I'll join you.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 08:23 PM

Its not about you, Steve.

Its about protecting OTHERS who might become infected by someone not wearing a mask.

Its about being responsible and considerate of other folks.

Best,

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 08:33 PM

"Greg"...?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 08:35 PM

Er, and that's the unsettled science...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 08:45 PM

It's Greg. He probably just forgot about "Bill".
But what he said... the mask is to protect OTHER PEOPLE if you're an asymptomatic carrier. If you don't care that you may kill other people accidentally, don't wear a mask.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 11:09 PM

Steve, it's a stubborn stance and ignores the solid amount of information that indicates that wearing masks does protect you and others.

I'm pretty sure Mossy was simply yanking chains with that signoff.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 01:46 AM

Oh I don't know SRS, although I think I'd opt to wear a mask if going out and it being my decision, things are blurred to me. Fwiw, I' try to copy a bit of what the WHO had as "interim guidance" on 5th June. I'm too tired to try and go back and find the link and don't know if it has been updated since.

First off, I'll try to present one table:

Table 2. Examples of where the general public should be encouraged to use medical and non-medical masks in areas with
 known or suspected community transmission
   Situations/settings                         Population                                       Purpose of        Type of mask to consider
                                                                                                mask use          wearing if recommended
                                                                                                                  locally
 
   Areas with known or suspected               General population in public settings, such      Potential         Non-medical mask
   widespread transmission and limited or      as grocery stores, at work, social               benefit for
   no capacity to implement other              gatherings, mass gatherings, closed              source control
   containment measures such as                settings, including schools, churches,
   physical distancing, contact tracing,       mosques, etc.
   appropriate testing, isolation and care
   for suspected and confirmed cases.
 
   Settings with high population density       People living in cramped conditions, and         Potential         Non-medical mask
   where physical distancing cannot be         specific settings such as refugee camps,         benefit for
   achieved; surveillance and testing          camp-like settings, slums                        source control
   capacity, and isolation and quarantine
   facilities are limited
 
   Settings where a physical distancing        General public on transportation (e.g., on a     Potential         Non-medical mask
   cannot be achieved (close contact)          bus, plane, trains)                              benefit for
                                                                                                source control
                                               Specific working conditions which places
                                               the employee in close contact or potential
                                               close contact with others e.g., social
                                               workers, cashiers, servers
 
   Settings where physical distancing          Vulnerable populations:                          Protection        Medical mask
   cannot be achieved and increased risk
   of infection and/or negative outcomes       •     People aged =60 years
                                               •     People with underlying comorbidities,
                                                     such as cardiovascular disease or
                                                     diabetes mellitus, chronic lung
                                                     disease, cancer, cerebrovascular
                                                     disease, immunosuppression
 
   Any setting in the community*               Persons with any symptoms suggestive of          Source control    Medical mask
                                               COVID-19
 *This applies to any transmission scenario

Now I'll try to give what they see as pros and cons:

Potential benefits/advantages
The likely advantages of the use of masks by healthy people in the general public include:                                                   

• reduced potential exposure risk from infected persons before they develop symptoms;                                             
• reminding people to be compliant with other measures. However, this can also have the reverse effect (see below);                                                         
• potential social and economic benefits. Amidst the global shortage of surgical masks and PPE, encouraging the public to create their own fabric masks may promote individual enterprise and community integration. Moreover, the production of non-medical masks may offer a source of income for those able to manufacture masks within their communities. Fabric masks can also be a form of cultural expression, encouraging public acceptance of protection measures in general. The safe re-use of fabric masks will also reduce costs and waste and contribute to sustainability.                              
                                                                  
Potential harms/disadvantages
                                                                     
The likely disadvantages of the use of mask by healthy people in the general public include:                                    
                                                                     
•    potential increased risk of self-contamination due to the manipulation of a face mask and subsequently touching eyes with contaminated hands;(48, 49)
•    potential self-contamination that can occur if non-medical masks are not changed when wet or soiled. This can create favourable conditions for microorganism to amplify.
•    potential headache and/or breathing difficulties, depending on type of mask used;                                 
•    potential development of facial skin lesions, irritant dermatitis or worsening acne, when used frequently for         
    long hours;(50)                                                
•    difficulty with communicating clearly;                        
•    potential discomfort;(41, 51)                                 
•    a false sense of security, leading to potentially lower adherence to other critical preventive measures such as physical distancing and hand hygiene;                           
•    poor compliance with mask wearing, in particular by young children;                                                
•    waste management issues; improper mask disposal leading to increased litter in public places, risk of contamination to street cleaners and environment hazard;
•    difficult communicating for deaf persons who rely on lip reading;
•    disadvantages for or difficulty wearing them, especially for children, developmentally challenged persons, those with mental illness, elderly persons with cognitive impairment, those with asthma or chronic respiratory or breathing problems, those who have had facial trauma or recent oral maxillofacial surgery, and those living in hot and humid environments.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 03:49 AM

Its not about you, Steve. - quite!

Most clinical looking masks have gaps but at the sides, deflecting the breath to the side and backwards. On face-to-face meetings that is a plus.

The real problem with masks is the way they are worn. I see mothers deliberately cross the loops to enhance the gap at the cheeks. While their children have them under their chins because of the restriction in breathing. Not even the bus drivers wear them, most of whom are nearing or over retirement age, though the older of that group seem to have disappeared currently. Not that I have observed many, I walk the 5 miles to town and not along the road where possible. Has anyone noticed how fat (ie vulnerable) a lot of bus drivers are?

My masks fit around the sides better, but then I chose carefully from the internet pictures and had them printed with my artwork advertising my website. Wearing on the bus is OK, but I wouldn't want to walk far in them. But if I take a bus it s because I am tired and the mask weighs heavy then.

FWIW the UK deaths graph has bottomed, and looking pretty flat at around 120/day mark (rolling average). The coming weekend may reveal something, numbers plummet Sunday/Monday which must be an artifact of reportage. I keep a spreadsheet and the FFT shows a strong spike at 7 and 3.5 days which is obvious on the daily graph.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 05:27 AM

With mask - 3% infection   Without mask 17% infection.
oversimplified yes, since factors like viral load is even more important/

3 days before symptoms a carrier will be most infectious. Thats why health are workers treating the people with symptoms are as protected as they are.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 06:28 AM

With mask - 3% infection   Without mask 17% infection

Meaningless.

Here in Cornwall there is no mask-wearing culture, so most people are clearly stubborn, accidental people-killers. You have to wear them on buses (which are as rare around here as rocking horse shit anyway) and trains (nearest railway an hour's drive away) and if you go the doctor or hospital. The nurse at our medical centre gave me a sort of papery mask that she said I can use over and over again. I'm puzzling over the hygiene aspect of that, even though I'm an assiduously hygienic sort of chap myself. Two days ago in Morrisons a mask-wearing woman brushed past me to get a bag of frozen peas. Yep, made physical contact. I've had a fair number of similar and unwelcome close-ups like that with mask-wearers. Mask-wearers are far more likely to ignore the other cautions, it seems to me, though I haven't done any counts. You see masks worn under the nose, etc. If they make masks compulsory, yet don't give people loads of free masks, a lot of people are going to reuse masks that they shouldn't be reusing. There plenty of negatives that you mask-zealots are ignoring. Oh, and by the way, this county, full of those stubborn accidental people-killers, has the lowest infection rate in the country. We don't know of anyone who has had the disease and neither does anyone else we know. Well, we did hear of an outbreak in a care home 30 miles from here...

I am not anti-mask. A couple of you are so pro-mask that your posts are beginning to sound a bit evangelical. The fact is that the efficacy of masks in many settings is questionable. There are downsides, some dangerous, that you are ignoring. I don't laugh at people who wear masks and I'll wear a mask when I'm ordered to do so, and I'll do it properly. The case for the defence rests.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:08 AM

Everything could be meaningless. But be that as it may
"wear the damn mask"

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:15 AM

Whatever your figures are, they are meaningless in the way you put them. It's about time you learned the good manners to express things in a way that doesn't do the discourtesy of forcing us to do a whole load of unnecessary mental processing. What you do is not clever, even if you think it is.

I've just got back from Morrisons, busy as it's Friday. Again, I didn't do a count, but I should say that fewer than one person in ten were wearing masks.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:19 AM


Here is a fascinating graphic on long-term issues.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/whats-at-risk-an-18-month-view-of-a-post-covid-world/

The mask is to protect others. Every little bit helps.

And yes, a death rate of half of one percent *is* better than a death rate of 5%.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:25 AM

You have no more idea than I do as to how much or how little mask-wearing helps. There are many negatives, as has repeatedly been pointed out in this thread. Anyway, I've just bought a pack of five, just in case someone decides to force me to wear one.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:31 AM

And I do have to wonder how you get to be "a senior risk analyst"...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:48 AM

Um, there *are* data on masks helping.

There is also this:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/dudes-who-wont-wear-masks/613375/?utm_source=digg

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:49 AM

If Prez Jackass had been following his own CDC guidelines and wearing a mask in public and not disparaging their use all this time we'd have fewer deaths and fewer people soon to die and get sick. Of course that pales in comparison to number he killed with his politicization of and slow reaction to the virus.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:56 AM

I'll amend that last sentence to read:
Of course, at this point that pales in comparison to the number he killed with his politicization of and slow reaction to the virus.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 10:07 AM

OK, so show me data supporting mask-wearing that doesn't have confounding factors.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 10:10 AM

I'll go with a real scientist in Dr. Fauci every time.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 10:30 AM

Plenty of real scientists have expressed doubts.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 10:56 AM

Steve is indeed healed and back to his same old self
regretably.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 11:17 AM

Jon, your list makes the case basically - the only two "cons" that make any difference are the possible misuse and self-infection. That is always a risk with masks like this. The rest is for fussy users and are excuses for not wanting to wear one, not reasons why they shouldn't. Big difference.

It is now MANDATORY in Tarrant County, Texas, to wear a mask if you go into a business. Places are putting up announcements and saying they will offer a disposable mask to people who arrive without, but that no one can go in without a mask. This is in the most Republican county in Texas, as one poll revealed, yet it starts this evening at 6pm and runs through early August. The local officials are now finding themselves in the same place as New York City a couple of months ago and are finally taking it seriously. So don't bother with the "can't articulate clearly" or "waste management" excuses, just wear it.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 12:03 PM

CDC adds 3 new symptoms:

Congestion or runny nose
Nausea
Diarrhea

Posted: Apr 24, 2020 / 10:44 AM PDT / Updated: Apr 24, 2020 / 10:44 AM PDT

SAN FRANCISCO (KRON) – The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on Friday expanded the list of coronavirus symptoms, which may appear anywhere from two days to two weeks after exposure.

Here is the updated list of coronavirus symptoms from the CDC:

Fever
Cough
Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
Chills
Repeated shaking with chills
Muscle pain
Headache
Sore throat
New loss of taste or smell

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 12:21 PM

This virus grows stronger with our laziness, division, exhaustion and ignorance. Without people who are willing to sacrifice their life to believe mr trump we would be on the downward curve but instead we are at the all time high in infections and deaths.
There are no viruses that attack only the stupid but it helps.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 01:28 PM

Everybody knows the boat is leaking
Everybody knows the captain's drunk

The negative postive test is flawed by a third. The antibody test is not much better. Then that data gets massaged further for national reporting.

The Pense pandemic task force is 99.9 % pure refined gourmet bullshit. The more bullshit the less time they leave up the graph showing that the worst area is the southern border. Then they put you to sleep and you wake up refreshed 48 minutes later.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 03:10 PM

Weird, I only copied the symptom list. It seems to have pasted the whole page. Sorry!

Live now first coronavirus task force briefing in months, on CNBC and likely elsewhere. Pence's head is so far up his ass it's coming out of his neck.

Ooh I am proud of that phrase.

---

Some of that extra text the page loaded into your cursor was removed. But those symptoms were reported in April and that doesn't seem to have changed. --mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 04:20 PM

Your view may be coloured by the fact that your state is in the middle of a terrible coronavirus crisis, Maggie. My view may be coloured by the fact that we don't know anybody who's been infected and that Cornwall has the lowest infection rate in the country. So you want masks and I can't be arsed. Can we agree that we both get it?   ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 06:53 PM

Steve, if you search for "studies on wearing masks to prevent covid-19 transmission", you'll find loads of information. I'd post links, but I think you're smart enough to do your own research.

In any case, preventing Covid-19 infection may not be as important to you as it is to people in the US, since we've got rates of infection through the roof. Even so, it's worse in some states than others. I suppose if you don't have to worry about accidentally killing someone, you don't have to think about wearing a mask.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 08:09 PM

Preventing infection is pretty important this end. My 91-year-old mum is in a care home six miles from here and we are all obsessed with making sure that they don't have an outbreak. We've been a bit shit nationally concerning all this here, but not as shit as you your end, it seems. But here in Cornwall we have done incredibly well. And we still don't have a mask-wearing culture. Live with that. We do.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 08:48 PM

"Live with that."
As you're far away, and couldn't kill me or anyone I care about if you were infected, you just do whatever makes you happy.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 04:39 AM

Well I suppose that I could wear a mask all winter too to make sure that I don't kill anyone by giving them flu, another disease that is infectious before symptoms show...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 07:09 AM

By doing nothing, more people will get sick and die yet this is becoming the official policy in the US which is now passing its earlier all time high infection rate. This is because of the judgment that " we must not make the cure worse than the disease". So we open too early, force certain workers into infection chambers at work, roll back testing and contact tracing, have unmasked political gatherings inside and not support people who are unemployed. Go to crowded events andparty We must decide if we should try to save those who succumb to the virus at all if there are not enough beds, PPE or medical treatment.
We must not make treatment worse than the effect on the economy.
So go ahead and take no personal responsibility. DO NOT WEAR A MASK.
Be a fancy free Steve. You don't have to chant 'Lets do nothing' but just be sure to take no social respodsibility.
Not caring for the sick and dieing is easier than it sounds. It is the last intrusion on our lives. All that wasted money is saved. WE DON'T NEED TO BURY THE DEAD. That has shown to work best with ovens.

Gas is cheap now, so take a flight and smirk. That reciculated air in a hypo baric pressure tube is less dangerous than an infected TSA agent. :^/

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 07:24 AM

Do try not to be so bloody daft.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 09:20 AM

Thanks elf! Yeah, I posted the new ones separately.

Underlying condition risk factors have changed, per the CDC. Pregnancy is in. Age is out.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-at-increased-risk.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fneed-extra-precautions%2Fpeople-at-higher-risk.html

Blicky

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 09:49 AM

Steve lives in a country where the rates have come way down, because nobody is as dangerous as what passes for the US federal government. I'm not entirely sure they aren't actively trying to kill citizens.

The fact that he's on the same bandwagon as the white supremacist Trumpers is just a coincidence. If the UK doesn't advise people to wear masks in public, then he doesn't need to. They only have had 309K cases and 43K deaths. No big deal.

Promoting not wearing masks in a country with 2.5 MILLION cases and 127,000 deaths is what idiots and/or killers do. But that's not what Steve was suggesting, I believe. I think it's personal, and *he* just doesn't want to wear a mask.

Personally, I find it's easier to avoid going anywhere when I can and wearing a mask when I can't is best.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 10:15 AM

Not nice to make that little bandwagon slur, Jeri. You seem to be on Donuel's gas oven bandwagon. In a post yesterday I tried quite hard to be clear that I recognise the different situations our two countries are in, using Cornwall, where I live (very few cases) and Texas (major crisis). I also said that I am not anti-mask, and that I do possess masks. I've said that there is no mask-wearing culture round here, which, with our risk level low and getting lower, is perfectly understandable. I have said that I will (and do) wear a mask if required to do so. Along with many other people, I do have a lot of doubts about the efficacy of masks in many situations: misuse, improper reuse, false sense of security, ineffectiveness in part. Mask evangelists do not have a monopoly over the truth of the matter, though you would think so, reading some of the rather moralising comments here. I've said that I don't sport a mask myself but that I don't laugh at mask wearers. I support all the government advice on social distancing, travelling and visiting or meeting people and I stick to it all assiduously. There is no advice to wear a mask unless you use public transport. I shop for vulnerable people. My hands have never been cleaner or more sanitised, and my standard of personal hygiene, as I've said, is high. If you think that puts me in league with white supremacist trumpers or the purveyors of mass extermination, well you'll just have to go on thinking it, won't you.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 11:19 AM

I'm not going to fight, Steve. I don't need that.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 11:39 AM

Funerals in the age of Covid 19 are lonely affairs no matter what the cause of death. So if we are going to have one, let the wake be now.
"For he was a folly good jello, for he was a folly good jello
For He was a folly good JELLO
which he always did deny".

Thanks everyone for tolerating the final episode of The Steve Diversion Hour , he always loved those so much, "Its always about ME" Diversions were his favourite. His never changing request that others must change was steadfast to the end. Amen

Now back to news: Arizona has broken records of of infection
https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-sets-covid-19-records-with-case-treatment-increases1

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 01:29 PM

If you don't want fights, please don't start them. My response you was civil and consistent, thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 01:31 PM

To you. I've cleaned my reading glasses.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Lighter
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 01:42 PM

"Citing 'irrational fears' of killer pandemic, Republicans fight face masks in Congress":

https://news.yahoo.com/citing-irrational-fears-of-killer-pandemic-republicans-fight-face-masks-in-congress-204027452.html

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 04:53 PM

I can't read that. Present the unalloyed facts about masks as we know them to the people, make recommendations and leave it to us. I don't want to know what your politicos think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Lighter
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 06:46 PM

The punchline is that the Republican congressman involved is an MD.

He advises his constituents *not* to wear masks - so as to defy the "misrepresentations" of the "media."

Mad, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 08:17 PM

Your politics is stark staring mad, so I tend to pay no heed.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 08:58 PM

The rates in MD are fairly low (IMO) and going down, but Congress itself is a bunch of crossroads. Supposedly, masks are required in committee meetings. I don't know if anyone will enforce it.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 09:10 PM

MD as in Maryland, where DC is, but not an MD, as in medical doctor. Politics seem to trump everything, including science, concern for others.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 03:00 AM

Whatever your figures are, they are meaningless

Hmmmmmm. They tell us that the statement is that wearing masks is better than not wearing. And may I quote (Sir) Peter Piot, director of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, AND who has headed up numerous UN AIDS groups.

"I would be happier wearing a mask at 1 metre, than not wearing one with 2 metre separation".

Having survived he said "after years fighting infectious dieases** - it was COVID that finally got me. Trust me, you don't want it, it causes organ damage"

I'll take my cue from Baron Piot KCMG, FRCP, FMedSci

**notably AIDS and the discovery of the Ebola virus.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 04:34 AM

Why thank you, Mr Red, for misrepresenting what I posted. Here, for your delectation, is the full quote as you should have reproduced it:

"Whatever your figures are, they are meaningless in the way you put them.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 04:35 AM

Speech marks optional.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 07:35 AM

In the US you will see FREE TESTING SIGNS however many people are ending up with bills between $2,000-$3,000 for that free testing depending upon the response of the testee.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 01:44 PM

I've been banned from going to Europe.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 11:17 PM

I hope all Americans have been, or at least people trying to come from here.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Jun 20 - 01:26 PM

Yup. Good coverage here.

Most of Europe smart smart smart, US being dumb, to the tune of that South Park about the invention of mormons.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Jul 20 - 09:26 AM

Ok cool new ooky info on the virus itself: not content just to hijack cells into making virus instead of whatever they were making till the cell bursts and releases all that newly-made virus, it gets infected cells to grow tentacles which *inject* virus into neighboring cells even *before* bursting.

https://triblive.com/news/health-now/inside-the-body-coronavirus-is-even-more-sinister-than-scientists-had-realized/

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 01 Jul 20 - 01:43 PM

a combination of ivermectin and doxycyclin is looking promising. google for yourselves. i am not going to provide links unless i feel fully confident about the quality of the research, which so far has varied between good enough to pretty darn awful to downright criminally fraudulent.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Jul 20 - 02:21 AM

I saw a short video of Dr Fauci being quizzed on why he didn't advocate wearing masks sooner. He was a very capable interviewee. The message was something like "initially we didn't have enough masks even for hospital (etc) workers. Telling people to wear masks would have left hospitals without supplies." The implication was ............ work it out stoopid but he is to careful not to be that obvious.

And FWIW he is definitely taking a pot shot at Twitler if this headline is accurate "Coronavirus: Dr Fauci warns US might not reach herd immunity due to ‘anti-science, anti-authority,..."

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Jul 20 - 02:28 AM

New Scientist has loadsa articles on various aspect. One recent one pointed out the research that shows that the virus thickens the blood causing blood clots.

Another reported that after effects can linger a long time. Debilitaion/weak muscles eg.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jul 20 - 06:09 AM

As the US approaches 100,000 new infections per day and growing exponentially, contact tracing will have no effect.
The runaway models project 1 or 2 million deaths

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Jul 20 - 11:04 AM

I am not (yet) ashamed to be an American.
I am not (yet) ashamed to be an American.
I am not (yet) ashamed to be an American.
I am not (yet) ashamed to be an American.
But that word 'ooky' definitely applies.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Jul 20 - 05:48 PM

I started being ashamed with the torture thing, then had 8 years of shameless Obama, now back to shame, horror, and oh-come-on,-really?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Jul 20 - 07:31 PM

LOL
This is true: I remember being in the elementary school playground; sometimes we formed up for games with the leaders 'choosing' who would be on each team. Sometimes it was not so much a game as gangs forming up for whatever reason. I remember early on developing the principle that whatever the cause, don't form up behind the stupid fat kid. . .

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jul 20 - 04:46 AM

Ventillators will not be used anymore due to damage.
Oxygenating blood and returning it to the body is much better.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: leeneia
Date: 03 Jul 20 - 12:57 PM

The Kansas City Star had an article today on a 23-year-old man, Shakell Avery, who was in the hospital with Covid for 80 days. For most of it, he was unconscious, flat on his back and breathing with a ventilator. His life was saved by convalescent plasma, an experimental treatment in which antibodies from those who have already survived Covid are given in transfusion form. (The article makes it sound like only one transfusion was required.)

Just so you get a better picture, I will describe Shakell. He is black, he is big, and he wears glasses with light-brown frames. He wears his baseball cap the right way, and underneath it, his head is probably shaved. Shakell has no underlying health problems to explain why his illness was so terrible.

After hospitalization, Shakell needed rehab so he could walk again and even move his arms enough to feed himself. Two days ago he made a 5-minute speech urging other young people to take Covid seriously. Nurses and doctors who had treated him lined up on the sidewalk, all socially distanced, and cheered.

Three things to take away from this:

1. This convalescent plasma sounds really exciting.

2. What is it about Covid that one person can get it and not even know it, and others, like Shakell, suffer terribly? Is it something in our DNA?

3. Keep wearing your mask, keep social distance, stay home as much as you can. And quit worrying about politicians. Your safety is in your own hands.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 01:37 AM

there are reports out now..google them yourselves or not..that a new strain of the virus is replacing old strain in US and it is 3-9 times as infections but not more fatal. It could explain some of the huge increase in numbers lately.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 04:30 AM

What is it about Covid that one person can get it and not even know it, and others, - genes? Lifestyle? Viral load? Luck. Tick any of the above.

3-9 times as infections but not more fatal. - less fatal? - as predicted by virologist-statisticians for years. It is the trend when the system a virus is working in, is working to defeat it. My guess, much like the e. coli O150 bacterium, is that the more benign strains have an ecological advantage. E. coli O150 propagates more slowly than other strains of e. coli so is out-competed for real estate.

Look at homo sapiens for a demonstrable example!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 10:23 AM

Fascinating info from autopsies:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/01/coronavirus-autopsies-findings/

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 20 - 07:53 AM

"99% of corona virus infections are HARMLESS!"
Donald Trump yesterday

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 20 - 08:36 AM

If you don't want to spend $30 for the Mrrzy link:
it is about micro clots in the brain, heart, lungs and liver.
The lungs show hundreds of thousands of micro clots
A similar condition may occur with Dengue fever.
A cell that destroys platlets is responsible.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Jul 20 - 04:25 PM

Coronavirus news is not behind the paywall, washpo says...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 20 - 06:36 PM

They lied in this case.
My wife gets it free as a .gov employee

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jul 20 - 06:29 AM

The new strain of Covid 19 is even more infectious but but not more fatal.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 11:13 AM

And now hear this:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/warning-of-serious-brain-disorders-in-people-with-mild-covid-symptoms

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 07:22 AM

the other idiot child in charge of a country ravaged by COVID - Balsanaro - has COVID. According to the BBC.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 07:44 AM

Mrzzy that brain disorder seems highly related to your micro clot post.

I see the same dark circles under the eyes in Brazil's president as Boris Johnson when sick.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 08:01 AM

Scary shit, yeah.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 03:03 PM

Going deep into the weeds of biochemistry, a result of Covid 19 infection is a production of super oxidized chemicals which in a sense kills like a disinfectant from the inside out. {irony alert}
70% of fatalities show evidence of the oxidation causing blood clots which can kill many people overnight including the young.
Cause of death is called respiratory but it is bloodclots throughout the body. Covid is acting like a hemmoragic disease like Dengue, Ebola and others on a microscopic scale.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Jul 20 - 08:37 AM

Excellent risk eval chart here

http://www.ezekielemanuel.com/writing/all-articles/2020/06/30/covid-19-activity-risk-levels?fbclid=IwAR2oNoUnjxrHjC1jrWUUYaBybVpYK4cOJuzLBEchi6PtIv4LpsgWxOSmx4o.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jul 20 - 10:23 AM

My health insurance nurse called me and gave me a contact number if I have questions about doctor or dentist appointments and evaluate how seriously I am taking self isolation.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mg
Date: 12 Jul 20 - 10:49 PM

some hope is being seen with Leronlimab. google for yourself, or don't. I think even later in progression. Reduces inflammation.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Jul 20 - 07:29 AM

Today's bad news: stories from two different sources making it look very unlikely that lasting immunity happens. Instead, you can get it again within weeks or months (new infections, not persisting ones) and second time round it will be worse.

This doesn't happen with flu, and the chronic illnesses resulting from covid-19 seem likely be much more wide-ranging, common and severe than with any kind of flu.

Some countries (notably England, Brazil and the US) are going to be in serious trouble in a few months. There is no substitute for actually driving the infection rate to zero as fast as possible.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Jul 20 - 11:33 AM

CDC adds 4 new symptoms:

Congestion, runny nose, nausea and diarrhea

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jul 20 - 12:33 PM

Jack, can you post the source of that information? Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jul 20 - 12:40 PM

immunity?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jul 20 - 01:18 PM

That's a good start, but it's from April 24, 2020. We hopefully know more now.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Jul 20 - 02:00 PM

Here is something dated 13 July:

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/13/1005103/immunity-to-covid-19-could-disappear-in-months-a-new-study-suggests/

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Jul 20 - 03:54 PM

Longer-term illness for survivors. MANY survivors, we aren't talking about freakish bad luck.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-53368768

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jul 20 - 09:12 PM

The USA poses a threat to Europe, Okinawa and the UK with Covid transmission. US military bases have created 100 new infections in Okinawa after they had reached 0 new infections. Wild Kingdom, Disney World and the Epcot Center are open for new infections because Florida is the infection epicenter of the world.

Subject: RE: immunity.?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jul 20 - 04:42 AM

The bad news is there are patients who have had Covid twice, months apart. Pure speculation is that they caught two different strains.
As you know we can get a flu varient more than once.

The good news is that there is a short period of immunity after having been infected.

I do not know the frequency of reinfection which is crucial data.

NIH has had a long running (holy grail) research program to make a GENERAL vaccine for ALL flu varients. Close but no cigar.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 20 - 06:51 AM

Not for the first time you are peddling misinformation. There is little or no evidence of people having caught the virus twice, though there's plenty of evidence of fallible testing, for example people being told incorrectly that they are free of the virus who then think they've caught it twice. The body's adaptive immune response to this virus is not well understood and you really need to stop making things up.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Jul 20 - 11:50 AM

First, this is not a flu virus, it's a coronavirus.

Second, there are actual reports, from medical sources (look'm up), of people getting reinfected. Sadly, the plural of anecdote is not data.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Jul 20 - 12:56 PM

There are quite a few people who've got it again after testing negative repeatedly. There are two explanations. The less scary one is that they got a new infection because the first one didn't confer immunity. The UTTERLY TERRIFYING one is what you're suggesting - because that means anyone who's had it could be a silent carrier, capable of getting sick again and infecting other people at any tome. Which wpuld instantly create a whole social class of lepers.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jul 20 - 01:19 PM

One of the questions that is asked on the various online surveys being conducted (Boston Children's Hospital has one called "COVID near you" that I've participated in) is they ask if you've had the flu shot. It may be because there is a health reason, some kind of tangential immunity bump, or it may simply be to determine your willingness to take vaccines.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Jul 20 - 05:18 PM

And yay, foreign students without in-person classes get to not go home after all, to spread the virus we are refusing to contain...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 20 - 05:34 PM

Jack, the more prosaic explanation is that a person previously infected who is not clear of the virus has been erroneously told, after a test, that they are clear. Then, when symptoms recur, they think they've had it twice. As the testing is notoriously unreliable (I read somewhere...can't remember now... that around 30% of tests give false results), it behoves us to be cautious about claiming that immunity is either short-lived or non-existent. For a start, that would be somewhat untypical of this type of virus. There is a lot we don't yet know about this, and it would be best to avoid the kinds of wild conjecture we're seeing in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 06:41 AM

Some of the repeat illnesses have been after something like 3 months apparently clear. The consquences of treating everybody who's had it as Typhoid Mary would be appalling.

Long-term immunity to coronaviruses is unusual.

Subject: RE: BS: New neSts on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 06:50 AM

Steve thats the first time in ages you have made a reasonable speculation. You might not be right but sometimes even a blind squirell finds a nut.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 09:41 AM

The only nut round here is you.

Jack, the fly in the ointment is always the fallibility of testing. Someone who has "had the virus twice" would (a) have been tested twice, at the right time, months apart, (b) been tested twice via an ultra-reliable test. (a) would be very unusual. (b) is currently nowhere near achievable. Not saying for one second that you can't catch it twice. But this type of virus does generally confer some immunity, if only for a short time, and, let's face it, the disease has only been in the domain of the known for not much more than half a year. "Catching it twice" is, as far as I can see, still in the realm of rumour.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 07:59 PM

Holy Shit!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 08:30 PM

Since April the data regarding the pandemic was declared classified by the US Executive branch. This is essentially old news but its good for the people to be made aware of whats going on even if is late in the game. In reality there was virtually more effort and planning that went into hiding info than preparing to eliminate, trace and treat.
First WHO was demonied, now the CDC and Fauci of the NIH is demonied.
Its always someone else's fault on the Trump Show.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 09:42 PM

Look for a precipitous drop in case and death counts. This is nazism plain and simple.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jul 20 - 09:32 AM

On the bright side, under the radar there are several signs of hope.
Therapeutics like Resdemivir etc. are arriving before vaccines, rapid low cost saliva tests are a game changer and past exposure to common cold corona virus might help and vaccine trials seem to work.
There is also mono clonal antibodies that will be coming onto market this Fall. They are working and are not a rumor.

New research accounts for 20-50% who have never been exposed to Covid 19 but still have immune cells that react to this new virus. The speculation for that, is that past exposure to normal common cold corona virus' creates a cross connectivity for partial or full immunity. Bear in mind that it is my wife and not I who works for the NIH. There are some things that are considered a 'close hold' and can not be discussed openly but there is real and substantiated progress being made.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jul 20 - 02:13 PM

The CDC data now goes to HHS under the loyal leadership of a former Cocapoo breeder and groomer.
Like the French underground in WW2 the true patriots will disobey and undermine the occupying enemy.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Jul 20 - 05:16 PM

I hope everybody sends to the cdc as well as hhs.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Jul 20 - 05:24 PM

Oxford scientists believe they have made a breakthrough in their quest for a Covid-19 vaccine after discovering that the jab triggers a response that may offer a "double defence" against the virus.

Phase I human trials of the world-leading Oxford vaccine have shown that it generates an immune response against the disease, The Telegraph has learned.

Blood samples taken from a group of UK volunteers given a dose of the vaccine showed that it stimulated the body to produce both antibodies and "killer T-cells", a senior source said.

The discovery is promising because separate studies have suggested antibodies may fade away within months, while T-cells can stay in circulation for years.

However the source cautioned that the results, while "extremely promising", did not.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Jul 20 - 06:45 PM

Did not what?

And why on earth is anybody trying to keep vaccine research secret? It shouldn't *be* a hacking issue. This is a *global* problem.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Jul 20 - 10:25 PM

mrzy the rest of the article was not available without subscription, but there is some optimsm to be shared, so i shared what was available

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jul 20 - 07:47 AM

yesterday 73,000 new cases per day in the US means that once we hit 100,000 per day the exponential increase will soon spike to a million infections per day. But mediation efforts may still prevent the 'Virus gone Wild' horror movte we are watching. A third of the kids in Florida are infected. How long term it will be is an unknown possibility.
On the bright side the sun is shining.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jul 20 - 07:53 AM

Should we trust our Dentist regarding transmission?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Jul 20 - 09:13 AM

Depends on your dentist and on you, tjat last.

Apparently it is a thing now, if you don't agree with masks, to wear one made out if lace or something useless for the purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Jul 20 - 09:45 AM

Oh and here are some fascinating data:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/17/covid-19-symptoms-falls-into-six-different-groupings-study-finds-coronavirus

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jul 20 - 06:34 PM

My toothache is going away with ampicillain. My dentist will be making a round trip to San Fran this weekend so I hope I last a couple weeks until Dr. Drillenfill is clear of infection. The worst case of flu I ever got was from a sick passenger on a flight.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jul 20 - 08:09 PM

"The worst case of flu I ever got was from a sick passenger on a flight."

You don't know that.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Jul 20 - 04:56 AM

The worst case of flu I ever got was from a sick passenger on a flight.

So far. A week is a long time with Captain Catastrophe at the helm.


FWIW I am hearing that the UK Gov wants (is?) to ignore death that occur 28 days after the patient has recovered from COVID. So if there is no test? And all we hear from the emerging symptoms is that there are lingering symptoms that are not trivial. As reported by Sir Peter Piot, world expert on infectious viruses. He says you don't want it.

Massaging statistics? All those that say NO - bugger off. We don't need you.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jul 20 - 08:04 AM

Steve, seeing that the sick passenger was seated right behind me and coughed and sneezed all the way with watery eyes I was fairly certain. I woke up after a week to find my wife was uneffected and healthy. But go ahead and feel entitled to know best what I know and feel better than I. I suspect I've judged you too. Grudge not lest you be grudged.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jul 20 - 09:22 AM

Ok, now, here is something weird going on: apparently many, many fewer preemies. Maybe the lockdown gave pregnant women a break?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/19/health/coronavirus-premature-birth.html

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jul 20 - 09:24 AM

You simply couldn't know for sure whether you caught it from him or even whether you had the same disease as him. I sat next to kids in classrooms for decades and was coughed over and sneezed on and handled their snotty books many times. I rarely got ill and there was not one single occasion on which I could attribute any ague I picked up to any particular pupil. You have a habit of making things up and/or expressing conjecture as certainty. That's all.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jul 20 - 01:41 PM

Oh, Steve Shaw, sometimes you can, indeed, know how you got sick.

Twin A comes home from daycare with a stomach bug. A few days later, Twin B and I and other parent all come down with stomach bug. We got it from Twin A. Who got better and wanted to *play* (they were about 18 months old at the time) while the rest of us wete clinging to life by our buckets.

Niece comes to Thansgiving on a Tuesday night with a stomach bug. By Sunday night, mom, all 4 of us kids and one spouse, all 7 cousins, an ex- and their new spouse, and our 90+-year old guests -only there for the few hours of dinner itself- all had it. In three states. We got it from Niece. The CDC said if it spread beyond the family they would get involved.

So, lay off Donuel. Even if he's wrong about knowing where he got his cold.

That Thansgiving we all got a prize: I got lasy holdout

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jul 20 - 01:46 PM

Oops went to correct that typo and accidentally prematurely posted.

I got last holdout, as I didn't throw up till I got Mom back to DC from Philly, Sunday night.

Wil [Twin A] got best-dressed thrower-upper, for keeping his nice clothes neat despite getting up to barf every half-hour or so.

Tim [Twin B] got his prize for barfing himself out of an armchair without waking up, not to barf, not when landing in a heap on the floor, but I don't remember the name of the prize.

Anyway. Story of epidemic past...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Jul 20 - 04:20 PM

It does appear that some people develop a body rash either during or after having covid.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jul 20 - 06:02 PM

Yes rash is a known symptom. Probably to do with the horrible clotting crap.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jul 20 - 08:29 PM

"Probably?" Stop guessing.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 02:33 AM

Probably to do with the horrible clotting crap. - it looks like being careful with words and logic didn't work, you should have just gone with definitely and be ready for the unwarranted criticism.

OK. OK. I am ready now.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 03:35 AM

It's encouraging that the drugs which show signs if being useful are old and cheap - dexamethasone, heparin and colchicine. (Hydroxychloroquine would have been another, if it had worked better). Not everybody researching treatments is trying to make a fortune for the drug companies.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 04:37 AM

Well Mr Red, I have a real thing about people who clearly don't know what they're talking about making "authoritative" assertions about medical matters. In this area above all others we should be sticking to the known facts, not casually risk misleading people. "Probably" means "much more likely than not" and, in the context used, is unsupportable.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 08:30 AM

Europe bans Americans from entry. Even Bermuda has banned Americans.

I started the original thread on the emerging Pandemic, Steve was instrumental in getting it closed. Repeat performances are not welcome.
While I worry, I know how important it is to not give in to despair regarding the pandemic particularly in Trump's America. Tidbits of knowledge as they emerge does save lives.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 11:35 AM

From my experience not even doctors can give an authoritative assesment of future events. There are best possibilities and risk assesments but no guarantees. The words possibly and probably are practicly fraternal twins and are not everyone's pet peeve.

In one of the infection types, micro hemmorages are the causal problem.
Clotting is diminished but is still a problem in effect. Ergo Heperin is used.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 03:41 PM

"Steve was instrumental in getting it closed."

Do expand.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 04:20 PM

"Yes rash is a known symptom."
Strange that the NHS don't seem to mention it.
Nor do America's CDC who show a longer list on their website: Centre for Disease Control
Watch for symptoms
People with COVID-19 have had a wide range of symptoms reported – ranging from mild symptoms to severe illness. Symptoms may appear 2-14 days after exposure to the virus. People with these symptoms may have COVID-19:

Fever or chills
Cough
Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
Fatigue
Muscle or body aches
Headache
New loss of taste or smell
Sore throat
Congestion or runny nose
Nausea or vomiting
Diarrhea
This list does not include all possible symptoms. CDC will continue to update this list as we learn more about COVID-19.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 04:25 PM

Of course, as the thread title specifies "News" rather than conjecture. Here's the latest news on a possible vaccine: BBC: Oxford Vaccine

A coronavirus vaccine developed by the University of Oxford appears safe and triggers an immune response.
Trials involving 1,077 people showed the injection led to them making antibodies and T-cells that can fight coronavirus.
The findings are hugely promising, but it is still too soon to know if this is enough to offer protection and larger trials are under way.
The UK has already ordered 100 million doses of the vaccine.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 05:05 PM

Yes, that is looking promising. Early days, though.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 05:13 PM

The US infection rate is 9.0% and 1 % of the population has already experienced Covid 19.
The UK infection rate is 0.6% .

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 05:35 PM

Meaningless.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 05:40 PM

Well Mr Red,

Like shooting (Mudcat) fish in a barrel. Hardly a sport. But in the era of COVID one does what one can............



Meanwhile the Oxford vaccine is going on to bigger trials and the British Gov has ordered 100 million doses for an anticipated distribution in October, we are told today by the BBC. A gamble, for sure, but cf the furlough pay-outs - not too costly. The doses won't all stay in the UK, that was part of the deal.
And back home: front-line workers, care home staff, bin men, shop workers, then maybe old fogies next.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 08:17 PM

The Oxford vaccine, whilst showing promise, has reached a point at which other potential vaccines have failed, so don't build up hopes.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 08:29 PM

Not true, when compared with Moderna in the US

Col.Blimp has become Debbie Downer.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 08:57 PM

Thanks for the gratuitous insult.

"not true." As ever, you haven't done your homework and you're spouting off without having a clue as to what you're talking about. The vaccine shows promise and looks safe. But every scientist working on the scheme would tell you that many potential vaccines have reached this stage of development, then failed at the next hurdle. I invite you to look that up (as I have).

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Jul 20 - 05:50 AM

From the public statements I've seen, the Oxford team are not claiming much long-term effect. Using it in practice would require dosing a very large proportion of the population very quickly and with a lot of booster shots. There is no precedent for a programme like that. In the US, not many healthcare workers would survive the inevitable massacres by gun-toting anti-vaxxers.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Jul 20 - 12:33 PM

Aaaand we're worse off than we think.

Murrica!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/21/health/coronavirus-infections-us.html

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jul 20 - 05:12 AM

At 1,000 deaths per day in the US the 'good massaged numbers' show the US is 10th worse death rate in the world per capita.

The actual numbers are as always a guarded secret or unknown.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jul 20 - 08:15 AM

Trump announces masks are OK. As a pandemic wartime president is this his Midway where the US gained its first advantage after Pearl Harbor?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Jul 20 - 07:07 AM

And no RNC!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jul 20 - 06:10 PM

Well, kinda old, and kinda not *this* virus, but interesting!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Jul 20 - 06:10 AM

You need a sub to read this. Summary: taking proton pump inhibitors (like omeprazole) makes you significantly more likely to get covid-19; the other major class of stomach acid inhibitors, histamine-2 antagonists, pose no risk.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/933645

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Jul 20 - 01:23 PM

Blood group not found to relate to risk upon further research.

Here is one study but I recommend researching your own.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Thompson
Date: 27 Jul 20 - 02:07 PM

What clever little creatures humans are. What a pity they're going extinct.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jul 20 - 06:00 PM

Raise your glass for a toast to Disney and their economic wisdom in reopening in Florida 2 weeks ago. https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/health/florida-covid-children-hospitalizations/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Jul 20 - 09:50 AM

So far though protests do not appear to be causing additional outbreaks. I am surprised, and pleased.

Here is one source.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/22/trump-coronavirus-briefing-black-lives-matter-protests

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Vic Smith
Date: 31 Jul 20 - 06:08 AM

!!! BREAKING NEWS !!!
The government is increasingly worried about the effect that their impetuous knee-jerk reactions to the coronavirus are having in confusing the public. In particular, the decision to have different regulations for different local lockdowns appears to be understood by very few people, certainly not themselves.
In an attempt to deal with this, they are setting up a body of the leading nineteen Conservative politicians. They will meet regularly to deal with the implications of their past, present and future failures in their reactions to the pandemic.
The body will be called the Committee Overseeing Very Idiotic Decisions. It will be referred to by its acronym and its total of members; the thinking is that calling it COVID 19 will give a good ring to it.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Aug 20 - 08:32 AM

Jared Kushner was actually put on the task force and made plans for contact tracing. All his plans were actually rejected and his involment is now ended.

I actively discredit the conspiracy theories as our enemy be they foreign or domestic. The news that Hispanic children are 8 times more likely to require hospitaliztion and black kids are 5 times more likely than white kids to need hospitalization has me on more shakey ground as to the possible reality of a racial specfic weapon most valued by racists may actually exist in the form of Covid 19. Proof awaits.

The insanity of gas warfare turning against the users at the whimsey of the wind comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Aug 20 - 10:55 AM

Close US bars OR close the schools. Ya can't do both without disaster.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Aug 20 - 11:26 AM

Neck gaiters don't help, fleece makes it worse:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/08/08/us/duke-university-face-mask-test-trnd/index.html

Blicky

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Aug 20 - 01:11 PM

There are fogging issues with glasses but I've stuck with the N-95's

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Aug 20 - 02:30 PM

Meanwhile, in South Dakota:

Thousands of bikers heading to South Dakota rally to be blocked at tribal land checkpoints

Clampdown comes as fears mount that mask-free bikers headed to large gathering could spread coronavirus to tribal groups

The tribal lands are sovereign, and they can keep the bikers out when their lack of protection and precautions as they travel endanger all in their path.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 10 Aug 20 - 03:20 AM

good news - Australian toddler stranded in India helped home by newlyweds

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Aug 20 - 02:04 PM

Aaand Russia claims to have a vaccine. We'll know in 5 years...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Aug 20 - 02:21 PM

Interesting article on telepsychiatry here. For those of us who miss our shrinks...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Aug 20 - 01:20 PM

Also apparently the loss of smell/taste is brain damage to nerves, not trouble with the taste buds or olfactory receptors. Heard on NPR and seen elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Aug 20 - 01:15 PM

I am beginning to lose patience with people not "believing in" science as if it were something subject to faith. Murricans. Sign. Arrgh! Sigh.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: JHW
Date: 25 Aug 20 - 07:34 AM

I've found 'mask-free bikers' a problem. On footpaths a biker may be suddenly there with no attempt at distancing and giving me no time to distance either. Sure a quick encounter is supposedly low risk but they shouldn't even be biking on many such paths.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Aug 20 - 03:50 PM

The curious case of a man getting Covid 19 twice is not conclusive. It could be by 2 different strains OR a mild first case did not trigger an immunity response. The confirmed second infection did not present symptoms. These cases are rare so it may not have any bearing on vaccine immunity response.
npr

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Sep 20 - 08:07 AM

The long-term lung damage can get better!

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/06/health/covid-19-long-term-effects-study-wellness/index.html

Blicky.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Sep 20 - 04:31 PM

opinion:
Here comes the mature pandemic. Even with the downsized administration numbers we are at 1,000 deaths a day and 6.2 million contagious infections in the USA. The total number of deaths could double by Jan. 1st. As Rap said the real number of deaths may never be known. Just as people are exhausted by keeping their guard up we will be going indoors, kids to schools, bars to open and gathering at the yule log, all while the number of infections sky rocket. Some call it the second wave. I call it the lingering Trump disaster. LTD

A virus is not political, racist or compassionate but it is nice it spares women and children in some regards.

Subject: RE: BS: What Labor Day plans during COVID-19?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Sep 20 - 11:55 PM

Sturgis motorcycle rally in South Dakota in August linked to more than 250,000 coronavirus cases, study finds

excerpts:

News comes a week after the first COVID-19 death linked to the 10-day event that drew more than 400,000 people was recorded

The event will cost an estimated $12.2 billion in health-care costs, they wrote.

“In counties with the largest relative inflow to the event, the per 1,000 case rate increased by 10.7 percent after 24 days following the onset of Sturgis Pre-Rally Events,” the researchers wrote. “Multiplying the percent case increases for the high, moderate-high and moderate inflow counties by each county’s respective pre-rally cumulative COVID-19 cases and aggregating, yields a total of 263,708 additional cases in these locations due to the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Sep 20 - 12:29 PM

I moved the above post from a less appropriate thread because I couldn't find this New news one. I've added COVID-19 to the title so searching it easier.

Those fools on motorcycles must have engaged in magical thinking to believe they could get away with such reckless behavior. The governor was all for it, but she and other officials who invited the activity will never be held accountable.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Sep 20 - 01:14 PM

Ah, I wondered at the name change, thanks!

This is such a litigious society I bet there will be lawsuits over this, that Maine wedding, etc...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Sep 20 - 02:32 PM

Breaking News"   Bob Wooward released the tape of Trump admitting he knew exactly how deadly Novel Corona Viris is and purposfully down played the pandemic to Americans.

Donald has killed more than one person on 5th Avenue and gotten away with it. The anger builds at 190,000 deaths.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Sep 20 - 02:37 PM

Washpost: Trump told Bob Woodward on Feb 7 "You just breathe the air and thats how its passed..."

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Sep 20 - 12:56 PM

Have just heard from my poor sister and she is really struggling. Her lungs are absolutely messed up, she has tachycardia and her oxygen levels are dangerously low. Her GP has made several appointments at the local hospital for scans and assessments, and she might be admitted as an in-patient. There are now 'Covid clinics' being set up everywhere, as people are finding the after-effects to be serious and even life-threatening, despite surviving the actual virus.
Her lungs fill up alarmingly with fluid, and she mentioned 'bradykinin overload' (she's a doctor so I don't always understand these things) Apparently it's an enzyme which stimulates secretions via the blood vessels into the lungs and one can even drown!!
I do so wish people knew about these post-Covid symptoms - they'd soon obey the safety rules if they knew the actual facts.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Sep 20 - 01:28 PM

Sorry, forgot to say, she caught Covid19 back in March, so about six months ago.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Sep 20 - 03:12 PM

Man, Senoufou, horrible.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Sep 20 - 03:32 PM

It is indeed Mrrzy. She seemed to be getting a little better a few weeks ago, but I think she was reluctant to trouble me with the gory details and make me worry. I just hope they can re-admit her to hospital and get her lungs cleared somehow.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Sep 20 - 11:04 AM

So sorry to hear about your poor sister, I do hope they can help her.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 12 Sep 20 - 01:45 PM

Thank you so much Bonzo.
So ironic, as we thought she was getting along quite well. She said that her GP told her there are about 60,000 people in UK with this dangerous post-Covid lung problem, and so far not much has been discovered as to how to treat it.
Husband is so upset,as she has been very kind and generous to his family, and the last time we were up in Tayside visiting her (two years ago) she was extremely kind and treated us like royalty!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Sep 20 - 08:12 PM

I've read about some steroid treatments being used now, a fairly recent development, of using low cost Rx steroids on people who had the worst cases. I wonder if it would apply to this manifestation as well. Best wishes for her next recovery from this.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Sep 20 - 09:46 AM

Thank you Stilly for your good wishes. I'll mention the steroid treatment to her, it may be that's the answer!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Sep 20 - 01:50 PM

Prior to and during infection it is wise to take vitamin D supplements. The reason why is because Vitamin D SLOWS DOWN a cytocline storm (a monster immune response that attacks the body indescriminatly)

It also speeds up safe healing. Perhaps you see the connection between dark skin people having less vit D production compared to light skinned people and as a result have a higher rate of morbidity and fatality. There are many other factors and influences but vit D is readily available and relatively safe.

Getting sufficient sunshine is even better than supplements.

I heard it on npr

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Sep 20 - 06:39 PM

Well, so far I have lost my last remaining sister and a cousin, in Oregon and Virginia respectively to the virus.

That leaves just one brother and myself alive out of nine children, some of whom died 20 years or more ago. I told my brother that I don't want to be the last one living so he has to take good care of himself for awhile yet. He is a trumper, though, so I don't have too much hope.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 13 Sep 20 - 07:28 PM

thinking of you & your sister, Eliza. I hope she can get into hospital & get some treatment that helps her.

hugs to you, too Ebbie,

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 03:43 AM

Thank you Sandra, it helps so much to have this support on Mudcat.
And I'm so sorry Ebbie for your losses. A hug from me too.
I think you're right Steve, because my sister was extremely vigilant about her food. She must have been the most correctly-fed person in Scotland, because she always made sure her diet was beautifully balanced and complete regarding all the vitamins, minerals and essential things. (Organic food from farmers' markets etc) She was so active and strong it was phenomenal. Whizzing up mountainsides, playing table tennis for a team, going for ten-mile hikes. etc. So I imagine that the vitamin D levels in her body were as they should be.
I suppose however up in Scotland the sunshine is more scarce, whereas I'm as brown as a berry down here in Norfolk, sunning myself on The Bench. (But not in a bikini -wouldn't want to alarm the locals!)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 07:42 AM

I am more likely to believe npr than our local dangerous mudcat mask denier.
Personally I don't feel I react well to vitamin D supplements. it feels achey or is a coincidence

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 12:22 PM

I read recently (forget where) that most vitamin/mineral supplements just go straight through you and aren't absorbed particularly well by the body. But well-chosen food is a better way to boost levels to the optimum.
Perhaps we should just all drink copious amounts of bleach, as advised by the Big Toddler.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 12:37 PM

Especially calcium.
People who drink bleach briefly complain of heart burn and sore throat. ;^/

Taiwan is the currently world leader in preventing covid infection due to contact tracing and a VP who is also an epidemeologist.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 08:08 PM

The 07.42 AM post is a troll post, mods, put out here by a liar.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 08:34 PM

Steve. Stop it. You're stalking Donuel. If you don't like what he posts then don't open the threads where he is participating.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 08:40 PM

I'm sorry about your siblings, Ebbie. This is such a difficult time for so many reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 01:52 AM

Thanks for the good thoughts, everybody. It is a difficult for us all, isn't it.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 09:15 AM

Aw, Ebbie, how awful.

I've had 3 cousins [loosely defined] get it, only one of whom, in their 20s, got really sick. My uncle who died of old age had it when he died, but did not die *of* it. My kid's girlfriend's positive test was deemed a false positive after a follow-up antibody test.

But the guy I work with on activism lost his brother, and there's you guys, so I know how lucky I am. I continue to be careful.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 09:24 AM

Ebbie its OK by me if you're the last one standing.
You are a Fiesty & smart favorite.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 12:43 PM

I just talked a friend through the process for getting the COVID-19 test through the county. He wasn't sure if the recorded message they sent was phishing of some sort, but it's just a weird way the county sends out messages. Anyway, it helps if everyone is tested, even those who think they couldn't possibly have it. One less question mark for county officials for the time being.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 02:35 PM

However, test availability may be limited, in which case would-be testees need to be prioritized.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 08:58 PM

Maggie, he called me a dangerous mask-denier.

I have complied with every mask requirement for many weeks. I have a large supply of masks at the ready in my car wherever I go. I pester all my family to ensure that they always have masks at the ready. I would never break the mask rules. Or encourage anyone else to do so. I do question the efficacy of wearing masks, true, but I do not encourage mask rebellion in the slightest. Yes, I have confronted Donuel about his serial misinformation on a number of occasions in recent times, in threads in which I take an interest. I have always done that in a measured way, I can fully justify every criticism of him that I make (try asking me), and I have no interest in following him around on topics in which I have no interest. Please do not pull me up for "stalking" when I have just defended myself against blatant misrepresentation.

You criticised me very publicly. You are not always right. I have responded equally publicly. You could have done this via PM, and I would have responded civilly in the same vein, but you chose not to. I fully accept that I may have gone for Donuel's jugular a few times too often (though you do appear not to have noticed his trolling needling). If you decide to delete this, as is your right, I would ask you to also delete your post accusing me of stalking this vexatious man. If you don't, be assured that this post will remain in my archive.

Cheers

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 09:12 PM

The last time I read any of your posts about COVID-19 and masks, you were still suggesting they weren't necessary in your area and you weren't wearing them. If that's what I remember, that is quite possibly what others also remember. There is a gap in the information supplied. Good for you for wearing masks now.

Following people around from thread to thread and fighting about stuff or insulting others on each of those threads is what gets 1. threads closed and 2. people kicked out of Mudcat. So stop doing it. I've had messages from others about this and decided this is the place and the time to make the case AGAIN that anyone who does this (and there are others, you aren't alone) is going to find a "BONK" message after a while if they don't cut it out. We're trying to improve the general demeanor around here, and it has meant ushering the fighting parties off of the property. There have been lots of second and third chances offered.

This is it. Stay with the thread topic from here on out, please.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 08:27 AM

So, um, timidly going back to the thread itself..

Indonesia condemns mask nonwearers to digging graves for covid dead:

Blicky

I kinda like that.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 10:45 AM

Texas is supposedly going to have access to a "$5 five minute COVID-19 test" that will be supplied by the federal government.

$5, 15-minute rapid COVID-19 tests are coming to Texas

A spokesman for the Texas Department of State Health Services said the tests are being allocated by the federal government and that the state was discussing how to deploy them.

"Imagine arriving at your office. You walk through the front door, stop at the front desk, and then take a COVID-19 test. Within minutes you are cleared to begin your work day.

Cheap, rapid coronavirus testing could change how businesses, schools and other places move forward during the pandemic, and Texas is hoping to be at the forefront."

I imagine the only reason Texas is getting them now is because it generally votes Republican and has a GOP governor who was "nice to Trump."

(And on an unrelated note, I hear ABC broadcast a Town Hall meeting it ran in Philadelphia that Trump attended last night and the Independent and Undecided voters really held his toes to the fire regarding his COVID-19 response, and other topics.)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 11:45 AM

Unfortunately, the more "rapid" the test, the more likely it is to throw up a false result. That includes false negatives. A high proportion of those would arguably be more damaging than not testing at all.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 06:28 AM

And your paper won't let "readers in the EU" see the article you linked to. Haven't they heard that we've left? Let's hope that their journalism is a bit more accurate...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19