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BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)

Steve Shaw 25 Feb 20 - 05:19 AM
DMcG 25 Feb 20 - 05:43 AM
Iains 25 Feb 20 - 06:01 AM
Rain Dog 25 Feb 20 - 06:14 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Feb 20 - 06:25 AM
Steve Shaw 25 Feb 20 - 06:59 AM
Iains 25 Feb 20 - 07:13 AM
punkfolkrocker 25 Feb 20 - 08:54 AM
punkfolkrocker 25 Feb 20 - 09:01 AM
Mr Red 25 Feb 20 - 09:17 AM
Backwoodsman 25 Feb 20 - 10:33 AM
Stilly River Sage 25 Feb 20 - 10:45 AM
punkfolkrocker 25 Feb 20 - 10:49 AM
Iains 25 Feb 20 - 10:49 AM
Steve Shaw 25 Feb 20 - 11:00 AM
Steve Shaw 25 Feb 20 - 11:03 AM
Backwoodsman 25 Feb 20 - 11:05 AM
Backwoodsman 25 Feb 20 - 11:06 AM
punkfolkrocker 25 Feb 20 - 11:18 AM
Jack Campin 25 Feb 20 - 11:36 AM
Mr Red 25 Feb 20 - 12:02 PM
Steve Shaw 25 Feb 20 - 12:42 PM
punkfolkrocker 25 Feb 20 - 01:02 PM
Iains 25 Feb 20 - 01:48 PM
Raggytash 25 Feb 20 - 02:29 PM
punkfolkrocker 25 Feb 20 - 02:33 PM
Donuel 25 Feb 20 - 02:39 PM
Stilly River Sage 25 Feb 20 - 04:58 PM
Dave the Gnome 26 Feb 20 - 08:42 AM
Jack Campin 26 Feb 20 - 09:07 AM
Nigel Parsons 26 Feb 20 - 12:47 PM
Iains 26 Feb 20 - 12:58 PM
punkfolkrocker 26 Feb 20 - 01:16 PM
Iains 26 Feb 20 - 05:03 PM
punkfolkrocker 26 Feb 20 - 06:17 PM
Iains 27 Feb 20 - 06:04 AM
BobL 28 Feb 20 - 03:00 AM
Mr Red 28 Feb 20 - 03:52 AM
Iains 28 Feb 20 - 04:01 AM
Steve Shaw 28 Feb 20 - 04:39 AM
Dave the Gnome 29 Feb 20 - 11:08 AM
DMcG 29 Feb 20 - 11:45 AM
Backwoodsman 29 Feb 20 - 11:47 AM
Iains 29 Feb 20 - 01:47 PM
punkfolkrocker 29 Feb 20 - 01:58 PM
Dave the Gnome 01 Mar 20 - 02:32 AM
Iains 01 Mar 20 - 02:58 AM
Mr Red 01 Mar 20 - 04:08 AM
punkfolkrocker 01 Mar 20 - 04:35 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Mar 20 - 05:43 AM
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Subject: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 05:19 AM

Well someone had to do it...

Good place to kick off: I note that the EU, quite rightly in m'humble, is not thinking of doing a deal with us at all unless we refuse US chlorinated chicken. So I guess we'd better stick with the EU after all... Nothing like taking back control, is there?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 05:43 AM

Fortunately, they said more than that.

For quite a while now I have had the suspicion that the Government was prepared to ban chlorinated chicken and would do so with much flag waving, while letting other food below the EU standards in. There was a good hint of this a day or two ago where the government spokesman was saying that the chlorine wash is old technology and most US poultry farms are switching to a lactic acid wash. If that is true, banning chlorine washes would be largely symbolic, but if everyone's attention has been focussed on it, they could miss that it is actually not especially significant.

But the EU proposal would apply just as much to lactic acid washes.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 06:01 AM

That is why US chicken typically have 2% prevalence of salmonella and the EU chickens 15%.

It is simply protectionism.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Rain Dog
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 06:14 AM

Is that a typo in the subject line? Should it be (for remaniacs only)?

As I have said before, I did vote remain myself. Further to the previous thread, I have also spoken to people in the pub who voted leave. It is quite possible to do you know.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 06:25 AM

Thanks Steve :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 06:59 AM

I've cooked many a hundred chickens and we've never contracted food poisoning. It's about knowing how to handle ANY raw meat, though admittedly a high rate of Salmonella or other nasties is unacceptable and is a reflection of bad practice in the places where chickens are reared. The US assumes (and appears to accept) a high rate of Salmonella contamination, etc., and chlorine-washes appropriately, as it sees it. To me, that's even less acceptable. It's not so much the chlorine; it's the acceptance of low standards behind it that requires the chlorine wash in the first place. If it was the chlorine itself to worry about, no-one would drink tap water or go to the baths.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 07:13 AM

The US assumes (and appears to accept) a high rate of Salmonella contamination, etc., and chlorine-washes appropriately, as it sees it.

But apparently not as high as the EU is prepared to accept.

From the Grocer quoting the Adam Smith Institue
immersing poultry meat in chlorine dioxide solution of the strength used in the United States reduces prevalence of salmonella from 14% in controls to 2%. EU chicken samples typically have 15-20% salmonella.”
cf Date: 25 Feb 20 - 06:01 AM

If 2% is high what is 15-20%?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 08:54 AM

I'd be even more concerned about the relative levels of growth hormones
and other feed/injection chemicals in meat...???

We can't afford top quality free range, and have no intention of going vegetarian,
so our income bracket will suffer most from dodgy imported supermarket meats...

Just watched an interesting documentary on BBC Wales
which revealed some of what goes into abnormally fast grown supersized USA cattle...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 09:01 AM

oops.. my mistake - not BBC Wales, but All 4.

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/meat-the-family

"Four families care for farm animals at home, then choose if they will be saved or be eaten"

The visit to the USA ranch is in the final episode 3
of this medium light entertainment moral dilemna reality series...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 09:17 AM

Like I keep saying. Science has an answer, and we won't like it. See above.

Climate Change, Brexshit, 10 years of austerity** and now the inevitable wobbly (there always is one) that no-one predicted - "COVID-19" - are bound to put pressure on the food chain, and unless we are prepared to pay 20% of an average annual income on food (as we did 40 years ago) then the 9% we save comes at a largely hidden cost that is not counted in pennies. see above. And more people grew their own then! And what little bit of waste was all composted then.

AND FFS, we can't even bury our heads in sand, unless it is quicksand under the nouveau-lakes, this winter!

**the Metro reported a badly worded stat about 10 years of austerity causing the advance in life expectancy to stall.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 10:33 AM

The Brexit Party founder/former leader showing her true colours by joining up with Yaxley-Lennon to form a new group (party?).

Why am I not surprised?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 10:45 AM

There aren't growth hormones in the chicken produced here that is sold to the public. I don't know about birds identified for pet food, etc.

And what is it with you guys and "chlorinated chicken?" The water has some chlorine in it and it evaporates after some time in the air. If chicken is rinsed with US water chances are there is some chlorine in it, but this isn't poultry dipped in pool chemicals. https://www.chickencheck.in/faq/chlorine-washed-chicken/.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 10:49 AM

Thread creep / hijack..???

yeah.. why not..

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/oct/16/meat-the-family-new-reality-tv-show-challenges-carnivores-to-eat-their-pets


"It is one of the most shocking ultimatums delivered on television. Go vegetarian or we kill your pet.

But a new British reality TV show called Meat the Family goes even further.
Not only will a family of unrepentant carnivores have to let an animal they have adopted and grown to love go for slaughter
if they refuse to stop eating meat – they will be asked to cook and eat it.

With experts saying that we have to eat less meat to stave off climate change,
the Channel 4 show challenges four heavy meat-eating families to take home and look after
the “animal which ends up most often on their plates”.
"

Our position as 'ethical carnivores' [catchy.. innit..] didn't change
after watching all 3 episodes...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 10:49 AM

**the Metro reported a badly worded stat about 10 years of austerity causing the advance in life expectancy to stall.
Carefully omitting to add that the same is true in other european countries.
Of course rising lebvels of obesity, junk food consumption and increasing incidence of diabetes have zero influence on life expectancy.
https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/social-issues-migration-health/trends-in-life-expectancy-in-eu-and-other-oecd-countries_223159ab-e
and some cod science data for mr shaw

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Mortality_and_life_expectancy_statistics#Life_expectancy_at_age_65_


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:00 AM

As I said, Maggie, it ain't the actual chlorine that matters. It's the fact that chlorine seems be be used to excuse farmers from applying good hygiene standards. And we know that good hygiene standards are part and parcel of good welfare standards. The perception here is that the US is less concerned about these things than we are and that the chlorine just provides a panacea.

Good piece in today's Guardian about farming practices and rewilding. It's the Long Read.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:03 AM

The second link isn't science at all. It's a mass of collected data.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:05 AM

”And what is it with you guys and chlorinated chicken?”

Here ya go Maggie., all explained in a nutshell. FYI, the RSPCA is The Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:06 AM

Sorry Steve, cross posted.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:18 AM

BWM - further down from your brexit party/tommmy link
is this short article about a tory prick...

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/james-grundy-flashing-incident-1-6530435

Now if that had been a Labour MP,
guido would be all over it with lashings of hysterical hyperbole
decrying the threat to civil decency from lefty perverts...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:36 AM

Isn't that a standard part of the selection process for Tory MPs? "Duos habet et bene pendentes".


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 12:02 PM

junk food consumption and increasing incidence of diabetes have zero influence on life expectancy - you mist (sic) the question mark, slow down, you will make more sense.

And the easy (aka cheap) method of getting maximum calories when you don't have much money (aka austerity) is to go for the densest fodder. "Greasy animal protein". Hardly saying a different story. Cause and effect are easy to spot.

It is a correlation that can be explained, unscientifically, at least:
In a recession the sale of sweets and coffee go up out of proportion to times aplenty. Cheap fast food would be included in this context.
People go out shopping and find the product they sought is a bit too expensive (aka "can't find anything") so they say "let's go for a coffee". Sweets to shut the child up etc.
The rise and rise of coffee shops everywhere would seem to testify to the phenomenon.

I well remember an American political pundit warning on Reaganomics (as in Thatcherism) in 1985 - he predicted pot holes on our roads.
Given the life of tarmac - that particular chlorinated chicken is certainly coming home to roost. On our bloody motorways!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 12:42 PM

If they roosted in the potholes round here, one in each hole, they'd be packed tighter than in a bloody battery house.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 01:02 PM

Is our tory govt weighing up cost effectiveness of numbers of old folk with dementia needing social care,
versus numbers of old folk projected to snuff it during a 'controlled' pandemic outbreak...


The only significant consideration in such an equation
for our govt might be how many of the potential elderly victims
are tories...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 01:48 PM

This is a pothole


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 02:29 PM

It certainly is !!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 02:33 PM

or a bomb crater...???


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 02:39 PM

You guys should have the same strategy for disease control as the US which is to fire everyone in the chain of command in pandemic response and replace with a FOX news reporter. This way control is under the control of one single person, Donald Trump.

This is like a cliff hanger reality show. I'm on the edge of my chair. This will really help ratings.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 04:58 PM

Yes - Bolton fired the folks who took care of this global pandemic stuff and shut down the office. Is there a comparable stupid act in the UK political realm right now? These guys seem to be one-upping each other. "Hold my beer." The new trade pact between the US and UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 08:42 AM

A proper Yorkshire pot hole

Hull Pot


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 09:07 AM

Is there a comparable stupid act in the UK political realm right now?

Priti Patel being so boneheaded that MI5 won't trust her with security information any more?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 12:47 PM

From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 09:07 AM


Priti Patel being so boneheaded that MI5 won't trust her with security information any more?


Even the BBC seem to be saying that this is fake: BBC


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 12:58 PM

It is more a case the security services do not like their master. Must be time for Cummins to clean house. Tally Ho!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 01:16 PM

Is that the cummings who spent much of his formative years in Russia... hmmmm..?????


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 05:03 PM

Formative years? you jest!
Cummings spent his formative years in Durham,a place noted for a largely incomprehensible accent rather that a hot bed of Russian intrigue.
He actually worked in Russia from1994-7.

If you want reds in the bed you would be better served studying the antics of certain of corbyn's clowns. Did the master himself not go on a bicycle made for two with dazy abbot for an assignation in E. Germany with the Stasi?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 06:17 PM

That was way back in ye olde cold war days.. how quaint..

Now in the modern 21st century we are talking about Putin stooges under the bed...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 06:04 AM

The EU has a stance on life expectancy

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/social-issues-migration-health/trends-in-life-expectancy-in-eu-and-other-oecd-countries_223159ab-e
A better piece of research than Marmot, who should be lumped together with montbiot and marmite.
It would be interesting to see if the decrease on a country by country basis correlates with the size of the sub saharan immigrant communities, where life expectancy at birth is at least 10 years less.
To counter this holocaust survivors had an increased life expectancy.
Could it be argued that survivors and migrants are better survivalists due to genetics and outlook, or simply happenstance?
It is obviously a far more complex subject and requires a far more intricate analysis than marmot's cheap political shots.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: BobL
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 03:00 AM

Try here - looks like the link maker has a length limit.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 03:52 AM

Even the BBC seem to be saying that this is fake:

Hmmmmm

If you were in charge of the country's secrets would you tell a minister who fires everyone who disagrees with you? Come on, MI5 are not about opinions, and prejudice - their job is to get the facts. Ya canna let the incredulous loose with facts. Geeze. Ya spoon-feed them. With facts ya want let loose. Agents' lives are at stake.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 04:01 AM

@Bobl. Thanks for creating a working link.
I generally try to provide working links to substantiate what I have stated. (Unlike some of the more opinionated that post)
Out of curiosity I did a little digging into life expectancies and some studies indicate that immigrants have a greater life expectation than the indigenous population. Other studies contradict this. Obviously a fertile field for definitive research.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 04:39 AM

When you consider that Smirki Patel was forced to step down after fixing clandestine and unauthorised meetings with Israeli ministers when she was purportedly on holiday, it would hardly be surprising if intelligence agencies felt that they couldn't trust her.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 11:08 AM

So this is what taking control back from unelected bureaucrats looks like.

Hmmmm


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 11:45 AM

Apparently Cumming's is going to have an urgent operation during February, having postponed this twice so far.

I haven't heard how it went. Anyone got any information?

Cummings to quit or cut down hours (or so it is reported)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 11:47 AM

They’re going to insert a brain....


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 01:47 PM

All about a civil servant that thinks he knows better than his boss.   A gem from Guido.

The big blouse has flounced off - He thinks he is in "are you being served" instead of "yes Minister"

Hilarioua. You either shape up or ship out just like evryone in the private sector.
I wonderif his washing his dirty laundry in public falls foul of the official secrets act? Can we have him tried pour encourager les autres



https://order-order.com/2020/02/29/philip-rutnam-quits/


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 01:58 PM

errr... the civil service isn't in the private sector..

..yet...

Despite tory ideological intentions to drag it down
to the dog eat dog nasty level of the private sector...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 02:32 AM

I think a heart would be more apt BWM.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Iains
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 02:58 AM

errr... the civil service isn't in the private sector..
errr........ you cannot read. "Everyone" would need to be qualified by "else" for your interpretation.

As usual the leftwaffe hit an imaginary target!

Hilarious to see the gruniard thinks the minister should resign. The laddie has a cv replete with failure upon failure.
Hopefully Monday morning we will see him emptying his desk, escorted by security, and thrown out the door. All filmed by the BBC overhead chopper for our delectation and delight. A luvverly bit of swampdraining.

If the action upsets guardianistas you know somone is doing something right. Further proof is offered by the whining lefties posting here.

Pretty Patel should hit him with a waycism charge, besides incompetance.

I wonder how much mileage the constructive dismissal case wil have in the courts? about 1000th of an inch by my reckoning.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 04:08 AM

So this is what taking control back from unelected bureaucrats looks like. Firefox blocked a fingerprinter on that page


Pretty Patel ha ha ha ha, a Fruedian slip if ever I saw one, got the hots have you? She ain't so Priti IMNSHO.

Well I have to admit you finally said something that made me laugh, and I love a joke that just keeps on giving............. mileage you say hah ha ha ..........


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 04:35 AM

Iains - nitpicking over the tiny word "else" = epic squirm...

It's inclusion or absence makes no difference..

WE know what you really meant...!!!

Otherwise, why would you bring your idealised notion of private sector ruthlessness
into that sentence...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics (for maniacs only)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 05:43 AM

SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN DELETED ELSEWHERE
Those whom the Gods wish to destroy.....
Jim Carroll


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