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BS: UK politics

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Subject: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 01:58 PM

We have been given the thumbs up for a new politics thread. The rules are no personal abuse and no trolling. These actions will only result in thread closure. Any comments on how the current administration is performing? Good or bad. Any views on the Labour leadership contest? Anything else related to politics would be fine. Any attempts to start a fight or abuse fellow Mudcatters will be frowned upon.

I'll start with the Labour leadership. My personal favourite is Rebecca Long-Bailey for multiple reasons but mainly because she seems to be a true socialist. However, being pragmatic, Keir Starmer may do more good for the party. I have until April to decide I suppose but what are the arguments for and against both? Sensible ones that is :-)

Knock yourselves out!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 02:10 PM

Whoever is chosen to lead Labour needs staying power,
and must be allowed room by the party
to develop and grow as a person and politician,
over as many years as it will be until the next general election..

Despite perpetual all-out attempts by right wing media and bloggers
to brand them in the general public's minds as crude demonised stereotypes...

For all Labour's problems now and in the future,
there's no other party I consider worthy of my vote...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stanron
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 02:32 PM

I saw an interesting program on RT(UK) today called 'Renegade Inc'. Its on again tonight at 11:30. Four Labour supporters discuss the leadership. One thing that got my attention was one of them predicted that the EU is going to collapse economically and we are well out of it. This is something I have thought for ages. Corbyn's change of stance on the EU after becoming leader was also mentioned so neither of these two issues are just figments of my imagination. Many other points were argued during the thirty minute program and I don't think I agreed with any of them apart from the two I mentioned but I will check out this program again in the future.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 02:37 PM

...to be divided into English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish politics, please - I don't like imperialism/I like "Nationalism without Conquest"


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 02:47 PM

Thanks Dave. Fingers crossed.

I was never a fan of Corbyn although, his having been elected by a landslide twice, I felt that everyone should have got behind him and cut out the undermining and back-stabbing that he suffered. He spent as much time defending himself against certain factions in his own party as he did opposing the worst Conservative government in living memory - worse even than Thatcher’s bunch.

In order to bring about the change so desperately needed, the LP first have to get elected, and I’m not confident that any of the candidates, with the possible exception of Keir Starmer, could command the respect and confidence of a sufficient number of voters to do that. And, although I like RLB, I feel that she is tainted, in voters’ minds, by her close association with Corbyn.

I do believe that Jess Phillips would be capable of scaring Johnson shitless, but I don’t perceive the oratory capabilities and statesmanship (stateswomanship?) that a leader needs (and which, IMHO, Corbyn also lacked).

So I’d have to go for Starmer. But I’m not a member, so what I think doesn’t actually count for anything.

So.....


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 02:48 PM

yes, good point walketc. personally i first thought angela rayner for leader, then i thought clive lewis seemed to have some good ideas. now i'm coming round to the idea of selling out.
i used to think that PR would be a good idea but only after 3 terms of a socialist government to bring us back to the left centre ground of a sensible, modern european nation. but though a boy can dream - it isn't going to happen. now i think labour could go to the next election proposing PR, in alliance with other parties - principally the SNP.
whoever we go for will never win support in the press but we just have to get rid of the tories at all cost.
like a big majority i suspect, i'll probably go for keir srarmer and angela rayner


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 03:30 PM

has anyone else gone on this thread and seen an advert saying 'tactical brexit - vote conservative'? well, that's a bit worrying and not good timing eh? how much do they pay Mudcat to run this ad?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 05:22 PM

As I've said, the media will go for any of those five, whichever of 'em gets elected. There is no way I could ever support Nandy or Phillips. They both did their utmost to undermine Corbyn so, in my view, it's risible for them to declare now that they want to unite the party. Neither of them could unite two slices of Mother's Pride into a butty. Thornberry looks in turn smug and patronising. Starmer is Posh London Fence-Sitter. He's a slightly more leftie Blair but without the charisma. I'll go with my principles and vote for the one socialist among the five. The right-wing are scared of her and are already in attack mode. We've already seen at least one sexist attack on Becky Long-Bailey on this forum and you can bet your life we'll see lots of it everywhere in the next few weeks. I'm voting for her and that's final. And she comes from Salford like my mum and her dad worked in Salford Docks like my grandad.

Re the EU collapsing, in your dreams. That's wishful thinking by leavers who are feeling now that they did the wrong thing and they want something horrible to happen to the EU so that they'll be exonerated.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stanron
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 05:34 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: Re the EU collapsing, in your dreams. That's wishful thinking by leavers who are feeling now that they did the wrong thing and they want something horrible to happen to the EU so that they'll be exonerated.
Watch the program.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 06:18 PM

No thanks. I tend not to seek information on tbe EU from a channel that is backed by an undemocratic, anti-European country. Or the Daily Mail, Express, Murdoch press or criminal bloggers. It's hard to get information that is true and accurate. The only way is to seek out multiple sources that are at least respectable enough to not conflate comment with news, unlike all the ones I've just mentioned, be as sceptical as you can, and come to your own honest conclusion. Falling prey to confirmation bias is also a bad idea. Jumping on what someone or other who, against the general consensus, predicts the collapse of the EU, when you are an inveterate leaver, is exactly that. As for Corbyn and his changing stance on the EU (which actually happened to me too, though I beat Jeremy to it by a few years), I'm getting less and less interested as his influence wanes. Going back obsessively over past issues of this kind has already poisoned this forum. Just to repeat. Corbyn supported remain in the referendum campaign though he criticised the campaign and, as he's always done, he highlighted the shortcomings of the EU. Then he voted remain. His position is and was respectable, considered and measured, and not ideologically fixed, as evidenced by the fact that his stance evolved over decades as circumstances changed, which is more than can be said for the ideological troglodytes of the ERG, for example. It was a damn sight more thoughtful than that of the braying masses who insisted that their little cross on the ballot paper represented their views on a whole mass of complex issues that they not only didn't understand but, in many cases, didn't even know existed. If that isn't good enough for you, or if you want to keep digging it up, as if every bloody member of the party thinks the same as him, then you are living in the past. He's retiring very soon so you can stop worrying about him. Geddit?

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but we can't stand by and let the same tired old crap rear its ugly head over and over again. This is a preemptive strike, made without insulting anyone. We can talk sensible politics without necessarily pretending that we always have to proceed as if we're walking over broken glass.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stanron
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 07:00 PM

Four committed socialists having a discussion with no dissenting voices and you don't want to watch it. Brilliant.

You don't get it. The Labour party lost the last election because, as a group, they didn't get it. Also brilliant,

Don't go changing for me.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 07:52 PM

The Labour Party lost the election for multifarious reasons. As you're a hardened Tory you would be the last person we'd come to for an analysis. Knowing why we lost is the easy bit. Uniting all wings of the party so that it doesn't happen again is a whole nother matter. We'll keep you posted.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 08:34 PM

"Knowing why we lost is the easy bit. Uniting all wings of the party so that it doesn't happen again is a whole nother matter. "

.. and that's not even getting to the difficult bit..

Which is convincing enough of the general public to vote the Labour Party into Government...

I'm 61 now.. any chance of it happening before I'm 70...???


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 09:03 PM

Yep, when you're 65 going on 66. We mustn't pick a leader who has history when it comes to divisiveness and undermining. For me, that rules out Nandy and Phillips straight away. There are plenty of good young lefties in the party and the bitter old Blair guard is evaporating. The message was good, the leadership let us down. But let's not go mad trying to nationalise everything at once. Let's not make silly promises about four-day weeks or how many billion trees we are going to plant. The Tories made a good fist of betraying Labour's weaknesses. We didn't even get started on the destructive harm that the Tories have been doing for a decade. NHS shredded, schools, falling down, pay freezes for years, pensions screwed, the jobless and disabled demonised and shat on, homelessness and food banks going through the roof, racism and Islamophobia... While we were being all nice and aspirational the Tories and their scumbag lackies were tearing us to pieces. We have to take the lessons and grow a pair. Let's not have a sinister-looking faction apparently setting the leftie agenda (yes, I mean you, Momentum. You looked and sounded like Militant and that, for the tabloids, was like presenting them with the golden chance to shoot fish in a barrel). If Becky gets the job she has to kick them into touch, starting from when she gets on the ticket. She doesn't owe them anything. I fear that Starmer won't be able to do that, and the schism will persist. A split Labour Party can't win. Blair, for all his faults, knew that only too well. He was tough and he had charisma. That's what we need again. Go, Becky.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 09:04 PM

And there was only one Brexit card and Johnson has played it. There's a big shambles to come. We have to make hay when it does, don't we?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 12:29 AM

"Yep, when you're 65 going on 66."

Steve - that'd be something nice to look forward to..
especially since no men in my immediate family have made it to 70
since my great grandad back in the 1940s...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 02:21 AM

Whoever wins the Labour party election is of zero consequence. You are in the wilderness, and your chances of reaching the promised land in the next decade are on a par with my chances of a mega win on the lottery,
Meanwhile on the sunny uplands we have the BBC running for cover and the procrastination by the Lords will likely lead to their destruction.
Labour is a spent force that is only capable of generating white noise.
You cannot quibble over statistics now, no matter how much mathermagic you apply. The Tories are in the driving seat for the foreseeable future.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 02:56 AM

More Brexit job losses

Goodbye JP Morgan Chase


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 03:22 AM

A thousand EU financial firms plan to open UK offices after Brexit

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-banks/a-thousand-eu-financial-firms-plan-to-open-uk-offices-after-brexit-idUSKBN1Z


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 03:41 AM

It is certainly good news for the people directly employed in those 1000 offices, but whether it is good for the country depends entirely what sort of financial business they do. If they provide a mechanism that is primarily about moving UK funds into the EU it would be very bad for the UK. If it was the opposite and a way for EU funds to get into the UK it would be much better. We need to see what they are in practice.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 04:06 AM

Job gains or losses will be very dependent on a deal/no deal brexit.
Die hard remainers at this stage of the game merely sabotage the UK bargaining position with the EU. The remain camp has being trying to undermine departure negotiations since the referendum of June 2016. Their stance aids the EU not the UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 04:20 AM

I sincerely hope that any job gains exceed the job losses but I have serious doubts. Money and jobs have already been lost simply by saying we are leaving. Everyone, including leavers, are now saying that we will suffer economically in the short term but, as yet, no one has put a time scale on that. When will we, the ordinary people, start to see those benefits? How long will it take to recover? 5 years? 10? 50? If the press and ERG put as much effort into answering those questions as they did demonising the EU and remainers we may not be so worried.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 04:58 AM

The British economy is set to outpace the eurozone in the first two years after Brexit, according to projections published today by the International Monetary Fund. The IMF suggested the euro area would see economic growth of 1.3 per cent in 2020 and 1.4 per cent in 2021.
It is interesting the way this is subjected to spin, depending upon source.

However it was not so long ago the same "august" body threatened a rain of anvils from the sky.
Que sera sera


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 06:21 AM

there has been many projections from both sides about the likely consequences of brexit . this is boring and polintless conjecture . as is raking over the past mistakes of the labour party or lies of the tories. (mind you , i havn't seen much comment on the tories' wholesale dumping of their relatively sensible wing) (sorry, must stop)

we could live in the moment and work out a way to restore our services, humanise our benefits system, end child poverty and foodbanks and protect workers' rights and the environment. all these things would be absolutely urgent matters for any decent government. must we still batter on about the side issue of brexit while failing to deal with the dying elephant in the room?

for now i'm still in the labour party and will decide who i want for the top jobs - is it too much to ask that people who have no interest in labour other to slag them off whenever possible - could just shut up and leave that decision to those who care about it - andhow we progress from this dire point for us and for the british countries


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 07:11 AM

Looks like the penny is finally starting to drop for a few of the Brexiteers at least...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 07:12 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 07:24 AM

I presume Brexit Party MEP June Mummery has the IQ of a dead gnat.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 07:25 AM

Yes - they all do.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 07:47 AM

Being suggested on Politics Live that Jess Phillips is about to announce she’s pulling out of the LP Leadership contest.

Also comments that Labour are still rattling on about policies, whereas what they should be looking for is a leader who can beat Johnson in a GE, our elections now having taken on a ‘Presidential Election’ slant. This is precisely what I said in an earlier post on this thread. Unless Labour can come up with a personality who ‘appeals’ to the majority of voters, they will remain in the wilderness no matter how good the policies are.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 08:45 AM

Now that she is without the backing of USDAW I think it inevitable that Jess withdraws. We will apparently hear around 3pm.

I agree, BMW. It is been a problem for as long as I can remember that Labour especially has to find a way of balancing plans and electability. Blair was ruthless: if any proposal or stance made you unelectable, it had the go: hence the Clause IV changes. Of course, many thought he had betrayed Labour even at that stage, but most were fairly happy with him until the Iraq war.

Compromise is always difficult, but for me a candidate who does not recognise great policies are no use to anyone unless you can get elected is going to be a problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 08:59 AM

Reminiscing on the post Michael Foot panic yuppyfication of the Labour Party,
when they all had to stop wearing jeans and jumpers in public
and be forced into suits and ties...

That's probably the point the Party started on the downhill trend of alienating traditional working class voters...???


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 09:15 AM

And my, how that worked! We bigged up Kinnock as the great Labour soft-left hope, the scourge of Militant, etc, but boy did he know how to screw up and we spent fourteen more years in the wilderness once Michael Foot had gone. Lest we forget, chaps. That's why one-more-heave more-of-the-same safe-pair-of-hands (aka Keir Starmer) gives me the heebie-jeebies. We need someone fresh, a bit unknown, energetic and radical, not someone who can't decide which arse cheek to lift in order to fart...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 09:26 AM

The problem Labour has is that until the leadership election no one had heard of any of the contenders in the race. Of those only two have any kind of chance. People are more familiar with Len McCluskey the leader of Unite. The man with a face that would sink a thousand ships.
a)THe election manifesto was confused
b)Despite the horrific results Corbyn was not forced to fall on his sword.
c)None of the candidates on offer have the gravitas and persona to be leadership material.
d)The party seems unable to understand why they lost and therefore have no way of reacting.
e)They need a clear incisive outsider to enter the fray - if they can find anyone.
f)The party needs to decide if the membership make the decisions, or Momentum and Unite.
g)The country needs a viable opposition party.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 09:38 AM

"They need a clear incisive outsider to enter the fray - if they can find anyone."

Iains - so could you be proposing Labour should be run by an American businessman,
or a Rabbi, or a "Tick any other box that appeals to the right wing's idea of a viable opposition party leader"...???

Perhaps Boris should force through legislation that gives him power to appoint a Labour Leader...???????


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 09:57 AM

Well PFR let me ask you one question. Are you satisfied with the candidates on offer?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 10:08 AM

it's surely inevitable that an opponent of the labour party would not want any of the candidates on offer. i wouldn't let any of the tory front bench walk my dog never mind run the country... but that's totally irrelevant in how the parties make their choices. althoughlabour have the problem of hoping to elect someone who half a dozen off-shore billionaires approve of. and iain.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 10:40 AM

Is there any sizeable political party in which all the members agree on every single party policy?

When you vote for any party does that mean that you agree with every single policy of that party?

Given Labour's record in elections since 1945, is it a surprise that they do not win many?

Given the situation in Scotland, how many of you here think that Labour can win another general election?

Personally I think that we need PR in this country, if elections are ever going to give a result that reflects the way people vote. Of course that would need a complete change in the way that all the parties operate.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 11:22 AM

I repeat, and will continue repeating until people here get it -

1) If you don’t get a majority of candidates elected at a GE, your policies aren’t worth shit. Absolute, incontestable FACT.

2) The UK electoral system has become a ‘pseudo-presidential’system - a large number of voters don’t vote for their constituency MP any longer, or even for the party they support. They don’t vote for policies, they vote for the party leader whose ‘personality’ they find, for whatever reason, the most appealing. The recent GE is proof absolute of this FACT.

3) Unless the LP come up with a leader who is capable of uniting the party, dealing with the back-stabbers, handling the majority Tory-supporting media, demonstrating that the accusations of Labour anti-semitism have been dealt with, and being popular with voters, they will remain in opposition for a very long time to come.

I don’t see any of the candidates (four of them now Jess Phillips has thrown the towel in) being capable of pulling the above off, nor having the personality to attract voters back to the party.

Sorry, but that’s my view.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 11:33 AM

There's more than a few folks who'd welcome Tom Walker / Jonathan Pie as Labour party leader...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 12:51 PM

hmmm.....with caroline lucas as environment secretary, nicola sturgeon at the foreign office and jo brand at culture and media?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 01:02 PM

Funny you should say that..

My mrs would be delighted if Nicola Sturgeon became Labour leader...

.. but then again, she also liked that Scottish tory leader Ruth Davidson who resigned...

My wife is a Welsh Valleys Labourite, and she has a peculiarly strong female celtic bias...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 02:18 PM

'she liked that Ruth Davidson'!? clearly she is not the woman you think you knew, she has changed into something awful and dangerous. carefully go upstairs and pack a bag very quietly. 'I'm just taking the dog out....bye' run and run for a very long way...don't look behind you.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Jan 20 - 07:34 PM

Growing into the job of party leader is a very unpredictable trajectory. In the particular case of the Labour Party the overriding need right now is for a strong, decisive, charismatic LEADER with the guts to tell demurrers where to get off. Blair did it and Thatcher did it. For years I worked in a decent school with a very weak head teacher. The upshot was a bunch of middle-order department heads and a couple of senior teachers running the bloody place like a Mafia. Discontent was rife, pulling together for the common good didn't exist and there were a dozen little kingdoms and a load of energy-sapping competition. Ruinous for the school ethos. A strong leader can rattle cages without the whole shebang splitting into pieces. That kind of shambles is what we've just had in Labour. A bunch of talented people being allowed to be constantly at each other's throats and undermining the leader with impunity, all of it giving succour to the gleeful gutter press. That can't happen again. It's very difficult to pick the potential strongest out of this four. We can rule Thornberry out in any case. Nandy scrubs up well for photoshoots but she is easily the most divisive one still standing, and her voting record on brexit makes her a Tory-lite. Starmer might cut it, but his vacillation on brexit and his fence-sitting makes him look worried and indecisive and will come back to bite him. That leaves me with, well, a true socialist at least...

...And a woman. There, I've said it. First job, kick Momentum into touch. Then she could just be a breath of fresh air. As I said, it's all very unpredictable. As long as she gets on the ballot I won't be changing my mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 01:53 AM

The major problem labour has is that has lost the trust of the electorate.
Labour called for the referedum, reneged and supported Remain.
In January 2017, Corbyn announced that Labour would impose a three-line whip to force Labour MPs in favour of triggering Article 50.
In the 2017 Election Labour said the result must be honoured, and is aiming for a "close new relationship with the EU" with workers' rights protected.
In December 2019 If it won the election, Labour wanted to renegotiate Mr Johnson's Brexit deal and put it to another public vote. It said it would achieve this within six months.

Labour said its referendum would be a choice between a "sensible" Leave option versus Remain.
Totally incoherent policy shifts purely to try to grab power. This is how the electorate saw the situation and refelects how they voted.
It does not matter who becomes leader, the party needs to regain trust.
That is going to be some mountain to climb. At least two parliamentary terms, probably far longer. It is clear that Labour has tried to deny the will of the people ever since the referendum. They paid the price at the polls, and deservedly so. In the US the Democrats are set firmly on the same path. Annihilation beckons!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 03:31 AM

Jess Phillips realises folly of speaking truth to out-of-power

Quite a good article, I think. It takes the same stance I and BWM are taking about the pointlessness of determinedly standing for things if you can't get elected. For example he suggest Jess's internal monologue might include:


She was too centrist. Too obsessed with trying to get Labour back into power rather than preserving its ideological purity. The very idea that Labour might have to change! Didn’t she know it was the voters who needed to change? How could she have been so stupid as to fail to understand that the best way to help the poorest members of society was to remain in permanent opposition?


So, for example, when Steve says "[Nandy's] voting record on brexit makes her a Tory-lite", he misses that her voting record could be one of the things in her favour with the 'Red wall' areas, since it matches theirs. Ditto the 'Tory-lite' to some extent. These people did vote Tory and the party needs to face up to that. Iains is right when he says the Labour party needs to regain the trust of the voters. Without that, the party will never get elected. I am not so convinced about how long it will take though: that depends on how the current Parliament plays out as much as anything.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 03:54 AM

A good article indeed, DMcG. Let’s hope the truth begins to dawn on the majority of LP members very soon - you can’t do anything in opposition, to bring about change and impose your policies you need to be elected, and to get elected you need to get a leader and a message that’s attractive to voters.

Trump understood that, and he’s now POTUS. Dom & Dumber understood it too, and the result is an 80-odd majority.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 04:11 AM

Corbyn placed ideology above pragmatism. For that arrogance he deserved to lose. As a committed marxist he no doubt feels the electorate are answerable to him, rather than the other way about. BIG MISTAKE !!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Rob 'Mad Jock' Wright
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 04:32 AM

No matter who you vote for The Governnment always gets in.

In the battle for leadership of the Labour Party there is no clear choice of leader so whoever wins will be treading a narrow line as those who did not support the choice will be looking for an opportunity to oust them and replace with their preferred choice.

The SNP had Sturgeon waiting in the wings and she got full support of the party and the voters when she took over.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 05:37 AM

Nicola Sturgeon is a wily and sure-footed politician who is a strong and charismatic leader. That's the way to do it.

Promising the electorate what you think the electorate wants ends up with massively stupid things such as a contest as to who can plant the most trees. It doesn't work. Hired "reality checkers" will soon pick the bones out of things like that. You don't have to do too much of stuff like that before your opponents have all the ammunition they need in order to make you look ridiculous. Here are some things you don't do: promise a four-day week. You'll never do it so don't say it. Score Corbyn out of ten. That's a really silly game and you could be nailing your flag to a mast that's falling down. Tell people that you'll nationalise everything that moves. You won't and can't anyway, it's not exactly popular, the enemy has lots of examples of why it often didn't work so why screw yourself by saying it? Forget to let people know that you've made your mind up. The most iconic moment for me in the campaign was Johnson driving a JCB through a wall, demolishing it at a stroke with "get brexit done" emblazoned on the front. The Tories know that the electorate are stupid and they make full use of the fact. If you actually read any manifesto you are a rare exception. The message has to be unsubtle and crude, not convoluted inside a hundred-page document that makes you hostage to fortune. It can still reflect your honest aspirations without sending people into a bored torpor. When I was a green-behind-the-ears young teacher, I applied for a head of science job at a school in Lytham. I "came second." After the interview the headmaster came up to me and told me he'd wanted me for the job but the governors had overruled him because they'd felt that I was trying to tell them what I thought they wanted to hear. The bloke who got the job had gone in and told them that the the department was in a shambles and needed a bloody good shake up. Which I suppose it did. He went in there and impressively cowed the governors. I know that because the head told me. That's how you win things. If Starmer gets the job he'd better grow a pair very quickly is all I can say.

I hear to my dismay that there may be ructions and splits behind the scenes in RLB's camp. She'd better get that sorted otherwise she's stuffed.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 06:57 AM

An interesting article from guido concerning a yougov poll.
It makes for frightening reading for "thinking" labour supporters:
New YouGov polling has found that one third of Rebecca Long-Bailey’s supporters are “completely unwilling to compromise any Labour values, even if this means the party is unelectable.” Only 5% of Keir Starmer’s supporters refuse to compromise with the voters and just 4% of Lisa Nandy’s supporters prefer purity in opposition. Emily Thornberry did not have enough supporters to be polled…

Conversely, just 1% of RLB’s supporters are “willing to see large compromises on some Labour values if this makes the party more electable.” This compares to 16% of Starmer’s supporters and 19% of Nandy’s.


I did see a comment from another site describing Labour as a "circular Firing Squad". Kinda hard to dispute!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 07:06 AM

Keir Starmer's supporters don't need to compromise anyway. Keir is a massive compromise on legs. I haven't looked but it sounds to me like a whole bunch of leading questions might have been asked.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 07:26 AM

FYI
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/01/21/five-more-things-we-discovered-about-labour-member


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 09:42 AM

Can't the new Labour leader be selected on the basis of a performance review
after 12 months probation...???

Which gives a year to seriously search the party for a better and more charismatic replacement in waiting...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 10:31 AM

Well.. a purpose iains serves for me is saving me wasting too much time keeping up
with the vilest right wing youtubers,
who i absolutely detest.

He at least provides a daily condensed round up of 'propaganda briefings' of the day
in a slightly more tolerable format...

By now I [some of us..??] can infiltrate and pass accepted amongst them talking their language..
which could be handy in knowing and fighting the enemy...???


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 11:03 AM

Just as I thought, a plethora of dirt-digging and/or leading questions. A useless survey, meant to feed into the confirmation bias of brainless Mail readers. The extremely misleadingly-named YouGov (doesn't that sound so official!) is a private polling/market research company founded twenty years ago by a pair of Tory politicians. Just so as you know. "Oi, I'm talking to you, guv" would be more respectable.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 11:12 AM

I am polled by YouGov periodically. Anyone who asks my opinion should not be trusted :-)

However, there are occasions where their surveys can be useful. Particularly when no one else is providing any statistics.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 11:30 AM

The particular yougov survey in question merely repeats what any rational political "analyst" knows anyway. If young beccie is a corbyn clone it is no surprise that she is adhering to the ideology of the leader. If her acolytes also adhere to the leader's utterances then electability is doomed.
No skin off my nose, Labour is obviously finished. Their days of frustrating brexit are now over.

it really is none of your business. you have no positive interest in the party or its members,
Labour has wasted nearly 4 years frustrating brexit. That is very much my business.
It is not my problem you do not like my analysis of Labour's failure.
Try and show me any error! I an confident that as long as labour places ideology above popularity they will never become a serious political entity. That is very much your problem, not mine. I find the idea of Labour consigned to the wastelands a very attractive proposition.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 11:46 AM

Will folks stop blathering on about brexit after this month..

Or is the obsession too deep set and pathological...???


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 12:09 PM

Pfr - the 31st January wont be the end of Brexit- it is just the start. That’s when the Brexiteers will begin to understand the depth of their gullibility, and the full measure of their stupidity.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 12:23 PM

BWM - of course.. we'd be too decent and honourable to gloat...

while grinding their faces into the mire of their own making,
as putrid dark evil fluids ooze from every pore of their skin,
and all orifices of their rotting living dead carcasses...

ermm.. ..ummm. excuse me.. what were we saying..
ah yes.. we'd be much kinder to them as they realise their mistakes...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 12:30 PM

YouGov appears to be a conservatively-owned site that has bought shares in enough legitimate polling sites that when you try to search on opinions OF YouGov you only hit YouGov's results about itself.

Alarm bells should be going off when that site appears as the source of data.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 12:40 PM

And there's nothing random about YouGov. You can join it on their website and you get paid in points to fill in their "surveys." Eventually you can covert the points into money. Random surveys shouldn't be able to be completed by self-selected people who are in it for the dough. Looking into this as someone who's never joined a polling company, I now realise why I've never been polled about anything in my whole life. I'm beginning to understand why opinion polls have been so unreliable in recent years...I think...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 01:21 PM

.. or for the most part just ignore surveys and statistics,
which usually only serve to confirm prior bias,
and underpin propaganda..

"But instead talk and listen to a widest range of people
with as open a mind as possible,
"
before arriving at our own intelligent independent evaluations..

But then, I'm not a pseudo political scientist...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 01:46 PM

In the meantime, some interesting news from Vancouver Island, BC. concerning Jackson and Zoë...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 02:26 PM

Too much reliance on, hiding behind, surveys and statistics
enables uncaring petty officious people to distance themselves into an abstract view of society,
even further removed from having to consider the realities of ordinary people
and their stressful problem bound lives...

Hence tory benefit regulations and bureaucracy, etc,
and at worst the pernicious banal evils of right wing governments...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 03:07 PM

”Subject: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 01:58 PM

We have been given the thumbs up for a new politics thread. The rules are no personal abuse and no trolling. These actions will only result in thread closure. Any comments on how the current administration is performing? Good or bad. Any views on the Labour leadership contest? Anything else related to politics would be fine. Any attempts to start a fight or abuse fellow Mudcatters will be frowned upon.”


Just a reminder...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 04:16 PM

I posted in December that the official unemployment figure was 1,218,000.

Yesterday the figure was 1,306,000.

An additional 88,000 people.

Hmmm ................ universal credit anyone?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 04:29 PM

The OECD says the TRUE unemployment number should be three million higher - over four million, or 13%.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 04:51 PM

they never count me - I'm one of the hidden who know's how many
who got fed up jumping through hoops and having my life taken over
just to claim NI contributions...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 05:07 PM

As I said in my previous post governments of ALL persuasions have manipulated the figures.

I am merely highlighting the additional 88,000 thousand people, and their families, who are now faced with trying to get some support from the PRESENT government.

What price Universal Credit eh ............. !!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 06:00 PM

”As I said in my previous post governments of ALL persuasions have manipulated the figures.”

Errrmmm...no, you didn’t say that - read your post again!

But you’re correct, numbers are ‘massaged’ by governments no matter whether Left or Right, and the goalposts for measuring these stats are changed from time to time, which makes comparisons of different time-frames difficult, if not impossible, for mere mortals like us.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 06:11 PM

Send lawyers, guns and money to deal with the leftwaffe!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 06:17 PM

All I know is my wife couldn't afford to keep both of us on her public sector salary before tory austerity..
and we're in a damn sight more debt now
because I'm forever excluded from claiming any benefits because she earns a salary...

Don't even know if or when I'll ever get a pension.
Not raising my hopes if Labour continues to fuck up for another decade or more...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 06:21 PM

Bonz - I'll take the money option thanks..
though I wouldn't mind some guns as well..

They'll probably be allowed on sale in Britain soon enough
as Boris apes Trump's USA politics...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 02:16 AM

"Cooperation morphed into domination. Sovereignty morphed into superstate. And that is why Britain is going..."
Anne Widdecombe
The Government has announced its official plans to commemorate Britain leaving the EU at 11pm on 31st January, however a new victory has been won after minister Nigel Adams signed off on the Union Jack being flown down the Mall to celebrate Brexit.

In addition to the Union Jack flying in Parliament Square, a light display will be in Downing Street and a countdown clock will be projected against No. 10.

The House of Lords has opted to end its legislative tussle with the Commons, as peers vote in favour of passing Boris Johnson's Brexit Bill. The unelected peers bowed to the will of the Commons after MPs overturned five amendments to the divorce deal. The Bill now goes forward for Royal Assent.(they finally wised up to the 1911 Parliament Act)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 02:55 AM

In the light of the sad passing of Terry Jones It is now time for something completely different:
Not long ago there was a vogue for the work of the American experimental psychologist, Professor Jonathan Haidt. The professor writes about the psychology of moral and political beliefs. Part of his thesis is that left-wing and right-wing sentiments are not symmetrical. He says if you get a group of right-leaning folk to write down in factual terms what they think their left-leaning opponents believe, you will find they can on the whole give a passable exposition of them; they can describe views which they do not share, and identify points of difference. They can respect their opponents’ rationality, even while reaching different conclusions. However, if you ask a group of left-inclined folk to write down what they think their opponents believe, they cannot do this in factual terms, falling instead into derision and scorn. The professor claims this as more than a mere impression; he says it is an experimental finding.

It certainly seems to be true on this forum!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: BobL
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 03:57 AM

Well yes, the lefties still accuse Tory supporters of being motivated by greed, but the righties don't accuse Labour supporters of being motivated by envy (though they once did).


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 04:07 AM

Once we get Bonzos "Leftwaffe" comment and silly generalisations about faux psychology to demonize an entire section of society we know that enough is enough. I suspect more deletions or thread closure are imminent unless you can stick to proper political argument. You did it earlier. Why spoil it?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 04:16 AM

The most abusive posters on this thread, and many others like it, are the Right-Wing element. We don’t need any quack-psychology, there’s evidence a-plenty in black and white.

Like Dave, I believe the death of this thread is imminent - killed of by the usual Right-Wing wreckers. It’s a shame, some of us thave been trying to keep it on track.

Anybody see Emma Thornberry on The Neill Prog? Any views?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Monique
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 04:20 AM

Rule #1 in sociolinguistics: Who speaks?.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 04:20 AM

Here ya go! The dangers of the blob!
Can't wait to see DC sink his fangs into it!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/22/now-never-boris-must-beat-blob-suffocated/
A massive cull of civil servants is long overdue - they are nothing but a fifth column. They are employed to implement policy, not make it or frustrate it.
Dominic is going to be a busy boy.
Perhaps he is Vinnie the enforcer to Boris the blade!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 04:37 AM

One of my ways of rationalising UK politics it to see the voters' spectrum as a Gaussian hump for Tory and another for Labour. Their relative positions are currently polarized and far apart such that the overlap leaves little room for any consensus.

We clearly have a ruling figurehead who is prepared to say anything to get and maintain his leadership. In short a turncoat.

The other figurehead has been a person who didn't strive for the job and was given as concession to pity.

Labour has a record of choosing the wrong leader Michael Foot, the wrong Milliband etc. The only leaders that did win elections have been vilified as opportunists. Wilson and Blair. BUT to be effective you have to be in power. The person has to be pretty, as well as pretty effective.

You may ask why isn't Boris pretty. Well to some, Jack the Lad (emphasis on Jack) - is evidence of ruthlessness. So it turncoaterie (sic). Pretty is as Pretty does!

And it all depends on the choices. We have just had a campaign with certain/"us not them" flavour on one side and a uncertain/"what about Johnny foreigner" on the other. Pretty comes in many flavours, don'tya know?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 05:13 AM

Thanks Monique. I got a fair way through that and hope to get back to it when I have more time. What I did see was that Haidt is referring to the American concept of conservative and liberal, not, getting back to the topic, the British political categories of left and right.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 06:41 AM

I studied moral philosophy / moral education as a component of my deree nearly 40 years ago..

It's too long ago to remember much, but conservative ideas didn't come out of it too well..

So when conservatives appropriate moral philosophy and claim the moral high ground,
we can be sure something dodgy is afoot...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 06:57 AM

Can't wait to see DC sink his fangs into it!

Why bring me into this?

DC
;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 07:41 AM

I thought it was DC comics. Superman vs the civil service? Batman's latest enemy - BoJoker? Green Lantern turns red?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 08:03 AM

Dot Cotton is a bloke...!!!?????


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 08:15 AM

No, a URL


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 08:36 AM

Dot Cotton was a bloke in Line Of Duty...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 09:59 AM

DC the nemesis of corbyn clowns.
We’re all living in Dominic Cummings’ world now


https://www.politico.eu/article/dominic-cummings-uk-electio-2019-strategy-conservative-victory/


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 10:20 AM

.. but who does he actually work for...???

What are the top 5 conspiracy theories...??????


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 10:59 AM

The view from the Antipodes.

I have to say that I find it rather amusing that those who claimed their ‘Leave’ vote (including several on this forum, one of whom is no longer with us) was a vote against the elite establishment were, in fact, voting to give the elite establishment precisely what it wanted.

Never were so many misled and confused by so few.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 11:15 AM

When ya can't make sense if it have fun.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 11:47 AM

2.42pm update: Brexit bill gets Royal Assent

Boris Johnson's Brexit bill was given Royal Assent today, thus enshrining the UK's exit into law.

The UK will now proceed to leave the trade bloc on January 31.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 11:56 AM

The UK is EXPECTED to leave the trade bloc on December 31.

Comment is free but facts are sacred.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 12:12 PM

The EU Parliament’s outgoing Brexit co-ordinator said voting to support the divorce deal was not a show of support for the UK’s departure from the bloc. He declared it a “very sad moment” but admitted MEPs must ensure the UK leaves with a deal on January 31. Addressing the EU Parliament’s constitutional affairs committee, he added: “I have to be very open to the colleagues here it’s not a question of voting yes to Brexit and voting no to no Brexit, that’s not the choice we have.   

“It’s the choice between a Brexit in an orderly way or avoiding a no deal or a hard Brexit most probably happening on February 1, that’s the choice we have.

Facts according to verhoftwat


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 12:18 PM

If no agreement hard brexit occurs 1st Feb 2020


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 03:05 PM

Backwoodsman I was referring to a post of early December when I quoted a figure of 1,218000.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 03:02 AM

It's all over now for remainiacs!

The EU commission's Ursula von der Leyen and Council's Charles Michel put their signature to Boris Johnson's Brexit deal at a sombre ceremony today in Brussels. A copy will now be sent to Downing Street to allow the Prime Minister to complete the process ahead of its ratification in the EU Parliament next week. Writing on Twitter, EU Commission President Mrs von der Leyen said: "Charles Michel and I have just signed the Agreement on the Withdrawal of the UK from the EU, opening the way for its ratification by the European Parliament."


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 05:16 AM

"We have been given the thumbs up for a new politics thread. The rules are no personal abuse and no trolling."


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 05:21 AM

I think just about every remain voter understood and accepted after the December election that we would be leaving on Jan 31 2020. I certainly did and I thought there was a comment to that effect already on this or an earlier thread. All of the rest, including the sign off by the EU are just the mechanics of that happening.

But equally, we are all aware that this is just the first step. The real meat of 'Brexit', whatever that may mean, comes after that date, and in fact only really comes into play in 2021, if then.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 05:59 AM

Meanhile you guys were so distracted by Brexit 60 billion was stolen from UK and europe in a double tax refund scheme that is the biggest heist in history.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 06:26 AM

I don't know who else has and hasn't noticed it Donuel, but that is a different matter to the UK politics thread. Yes, it is relevant here to the extent that Brexit has taken our eye of the ball on this and other matters, but it goes back before the 2016 vote. If anything it is closer to the FannyMae financial issues, because it essentially about the fact that the financial dealings are now so complex than no-one at all really understands what is happening, and that complexity allows all sorts of deals to take place to exploit loopholes and risks.

It is a worldwide problem that is worth knowing about, but because it is worldwide the UK politics thread might not be the best place to discuss it.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 06:27 AM

Meanhile you guys were so distracted by Brexit 60 billion was stolen from UK and europe in a double tax refund scheme that is the biggest heist in history.
Would you care to clarify that comment (either with or without a link). The only links I can find for that figure e.g. this one relate to carousel fraud, and is an estimated figure which is the same as the estimate given in 2014, so nothing to do with Brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 06:38 AM

The banking crime is only recent news to me so it is I who is ill informed.
The scope is similar to Fannie Mae but the means is quite different.
Professor Obvious sez:
Banking crimes occur because that is where the money is.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 09:41 AM

Labour accepted Bercow's bullying in order to keep him in place as speaker in order to frustrate brexit. Then proposes him for a peerage as a thankyou.
Is this the sort of behaviour of their party the rank and file membership should tolerate.
SHAMEFUL
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/john-bercow-bullying-harrassment-commons-speaker-resign-margaret-beckett-labour-a

https://order-order.com/2020/01/24/bercows-bullying-chief-clerk-well-known/#disqus_thread

For Bercow to be offered a peerage by the Leader of the opposition as a thankyou for denying the will of the majority plumbs new depths, even for labour.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 10:36 AM

This morning, Ursula von der Leyen and Charles Michael formally signed the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement; now only the confirmatory ratification by the European Parliament is needed to secure Britain’s orderly withdrawal in one week’s time.

London Labour MEP Seb Dance reacted by calling it “the saddest moment in my political career”, vowing to ensure his “very last vote shall be against Brexit.”

TO vote against the deal is of course a vote for no deal!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 03:14 PM

Flanders and Swann best you all to it I'm afraid

Pee, po, belly, bum, drawers

Proper music too. But is it folk?

A bit of light relief never hurt anyone but sadly some will never see it that way :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 09:16 PM

[sigh] Though you may not be aware, one of the main jobs of moderators is to delete spam. This thread will become a spam magnet with PFR's nonsense installed. That's why it was removed. It really is ironic that the rest of you lot were deleted and Iains left in place.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 09:36 PM

Oi, Maggie, you got that wrong. Because you guys leave the troll in place we try occasionally to use diverting tactics. We try to keep it all light and airy. But then you shut us off, leaving the troll posts in place,.,

I mean, what do you guys REALLY want!

We do suspect...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 10:32 PM

It's not just the 'folk police' mudcat needs to be wary of..

but also the 'sense of humour' police...!!!!!

I reiterate, puritanical censorship is an important and divisive issue of this era...

Fully appropriate to be discussed in a political thread,
by both left and right, either side of the Atlantic...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 10:38 PM

btw.. how does a member's only thread become a magnet for outside spam posters...???

My 'nonsense' is more often than not
very serious political content expressed in a frivolous / robust 'comedic' manner...

Because boring boring obsessive political bores, bore us to death...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 11:09 PM

My style is sardonic 'tongue in cheek',
as opposed to the belligerent 'fist in face' shouting favoured by the right..


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 02:38 AM

btw.. how does a member's only thread become a magnet for outside spam posters...???

Your posts attract spammers. They don't need to be members to have their bots read posts. Once they spot something of interest they post their spam above the line. Seemples.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 04:24 AM

From the forum FAQ, ‘Dealing with Flamers and Trolls’ section...

”I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it many times more: the best way to deal with both flamers and trolls is to ignore them. Give them silence, and they'll go away. They feed on attention - don't give it to them.”

Unless and until everyone gets that into their fact-resistant heads, threads like this will continue to be heavily-, sometimes clumsily, -moderated by volunteer Mods who already have a heavy workload.

It’s not compulsory to respond to any post.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 04:33 AM

Sanity from Boris the blade!
EU copyright law to be ignored


https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51240785
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/28/article-13-what-eu-copyright-directive-means-for-the-internet.html


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 04:42 AM

Well my prediction of Brexshit price rises are beginning to show. My webspace have upped their stipend from Feb 26. Is it connected? Well it is basically a German outfit. There is uncertainty, and it is all about money, so a hedge at least, if only for the timing.

Food prices could be affected because UK is a net importer (40% at the last count) but that depends on this mythical deal. Any change costs money and we are due for pretty big changes for commerce. Pay-back is rather nebulous, under (sic) written by that old belief system (aka religion) - politics.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 07:40 AM

Call us cynical, but leading brexiteers must be speculating on making huge riches
by profiteering from brexit's adverse problems for the majority of UK citizens..

No wonder the loudest gloaters are such gleeful and obnoxious show offs...

1980s spiv get rich quick yuppies, now in their 60s and 70s...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 07:57 AM

DtG - thanks for explaining - that's more or less what I was working it out as..

Though it's still not an entirely satisfactory justification
for most excessive interventions here...???

But it would be nice if folks in authority talked to us more openly
about why they are doing things which frequently bemuse and antagonise us..
Rather than silently acting in such mystifying ways...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 07:58 AM

silence breeds suspicion...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 09:38 AM

From the Guardian today.

Note that it only says ‘could lose’ but, if it happens, it’s a typical Tory slap in the face for those foolish enough to fall for the Dom & Dumber Horse-shit and vote for them in the GE.

Anyone taking bets on the outcome?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 10:45 AM

It was a combination of reading the Guardian and refusal to react to the poll data that lost Labour the election. The worst result since 1935.
That makes you lefties absolutely incapable of changing any proposed legislation. After three years of having it your own way frustrating brexit the law iof unintended consequences has kicked in, and you are F****d. Why does that give me such a warm glow inside?

Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

How are your brambles and nettles doing?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 01:08 PM

It makes me laugh!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 01:18 PM

I hope you are still laughing when the NHS is sold off and you have to pay for your wife's treatment, Bonzo.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 01:22 PM

A reallocation of council funding could redirect hundreds of millions of pounds from so-called left-behind communities in the north of England to the leafy southern shires, analysis has found, leaving many newly Conservative voting “red wall” areas facing fresh cuts to local services.

Under a review of the local authority funding formula, £320m a year could be shifted out of councils in England’s most deprived areas while Tory-controlled shire councils mainly in the south-east gain £300m.

High-profile losers include many constituencies that elected new Tory MPs in December, including Workington, which would suffer from Cumbria county council’s £5m loss, and Sedgefield, which would feel the impact of £10m being taken out of Durham county council.

An estimated 37 of the 50 new Tory MPs – amounting to 70% of the gains made by the Conservatives at the general election – represent areas that are set to lose millions a year. Other notable losers include Stoke-on-Trent, Redcar, West Bromwich, Bishop Auckland, Grimsby and Leigh.


Isn't Stoke-on-Trent the home of or nearby several Mudcatters?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 01:43 PM

Ode to the forsaken in the Labour leadership race:
Kendall in the wind


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 03:10 PM

A totally irrelevant post as Jess Philips stepped down from the leadership race some days ago.......... of her own volition.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 03:16 PM

He's probably not at the top of the priority list for fresh links
being issued by propaganda central control command..

Hence the few days delay lag...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 06:24 PM

Dunno, SRS, but Leigh is about three miles from where I was born and bred. It's tough up there.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 08:15 AM

Well, at least our Resident Brexiteers will be delighted...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 09:39 AM

Other notable losers include Stoke-on-Trent, Redcar, West Bromwich, Bishop Auckland, Grimsby and Leigh.

You were born near Leigh but moved elsewhere, Steve. I was born elsewhere but moved to Grimsby.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 09:54 AM

Well I didn't move away until I grew up (some claim I've never done that...)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 11:36 AM

I was born in Middlesbrough and as a child my family used to go to Redcar for day trips and to far flung Saltburn for a week (about 12 miles)

Tell the youth of today that, and they'd never believe you


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 12:03 PM

Nowt wrong wi’ Saltburn! Had some good times there. Redcar not so much. But I used to have fun on the beach at Seaton Carew when I used to be sent to stay with my Aunt and Uncle in Hartlepool for a couple of weeks during the summer holidays back in the ‘50s!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 01:01 PM

What was it they were saying along the lines of “They will all be queuing up, falling over themselves to make great deals with us!”


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 01:30 PM

Seaton Carew? Wasn't he a 1930's film star? Along with Monton Green and Hazel Grove?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 03:15 PM

LOL!

Mrs. Backwoodsperson and I went to Seaton Carew and Hartlepool a few years ago, a walk down Memory Lane for me, the last time I’d been there on holiday was when I was ten years old - we’d had a very serious house-fire and I think I was sent away to stay with my aunt and uncle to ‘get away from everything’ while the adults dealt with the dreadful aftermath. How it had all changed, the steelworks close to where my relatives lived had all gone, along with their street and all the other streets around their neighbourhood. Barely recognised the place!

Anyway, I digress - when we got to Seaton Carew, Mrs. Backwoodsperson decided it sounded like an out-of-work Shakespearean Actor-Manager. I couldn’t disagree with her!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 07:01 PM

We're now being threatened by the US that they won't give us a trade deal if we sign up with Huawei for 5G. Good that we've taken back control, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 02:13 AM

Well, Friday will soon be here and Brexit will be done and dusted. Hooraaaaaaahhh, we’ve ‘Taken Back Control’ at last! Haven’t we? Haven’t we?

Well actually...NO, The fun’s just about to start!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 04:51 AM

The sunny uplands beckon.
We won - You lost.
Get over it and stop whining. Democracy prevails!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 05:37 AM

After a decade of Conservative Prime Ministers, the Tories have stormed ahead to take a stonking 49% share of the vote in YouGov’s latest survey – Five points up on their general election win, and nearly as good as the last time the Tories achieved more than 50% in a poll – 52% under Thatcher in May 1983. GET BREXIT DONE clearly resonated with the electorate.
The corbynated cluster f*ck that is labour had no chance.

FromGuido - of course
https://order-order.com/2020/01/28/tories-take-twenty-point-lead/#disqus_thread

As one perceptive pundit said:
This is a genuinely fake poll - Labour won the argument with the voters; its policies were popular with the voters; Corbyn is a cuddly, likeable man; Labour's front bench has people of the highest intellect; Labour has an honest and clear stance on Brexit; Labour is not run and financed by the communist thugs of Momentum and the Trade Unions; Labour is the London, champagne socialist party; Labour has no problems with anti-Sem.....

Why on earth isn’t Labour 20 points ahead?

and another:
Labour lost the election and you have clearly learned nothing. 'Steptoe was loved by the people' despite polls showing 75% of all voters disliked him. Wake up.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 06:00 AM

Are we better of yet? My weekly shopping bill still seems to get higher as time progresses. Looking forward to it dropping massively on Saturday ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 07:06 AM

Outside the wonky woke leftie bubble of delusion it is accepted that inflation is a way of life. This means that over time things become more expensive, especially when Labour is in power.
1974 16%
1876 24%
1976 16$
1977 15%
1978 8%
1979 13%
1980 18%
Inflation under Labour 1974-1980


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 07:58 AM

You'll be OK, Dave, once those Morrisons wine offers kick in this week...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 08:03 AM

Finally accepting brexit and celebrating are we?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 08:30 AM

I take it that's a no to being better off then. Anyone care to put a timescale on when we will be?

I still get my Mossers discount, Steve, so I may well treat myself to a bottle of two on Saturday. They had better be offering free unicorns with them :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 08:40 AM

See if you can get Morrisons to persuade Warburtons to put ten crumpets in their one-quid nine-pack, Dave. It's terribly inconvenient, as Mrs Steve has two, I have three, which leave only four left for the next day... No use, is that... Mind you, as I understand it, Warburtons is a Tory party donor...

See how I skilfully I worked UK politics back in there, Dave? :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 08:42 AM

I wonder what happened on 25 Jan 20 - 10:45 AM. BTW It was a definite Jeckyl and Hyde moment.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 09:10 AM

The left and why they lost.Hilarious:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcuoEVcsLcs


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 09:32 AM

Keep on sniggering Iains, you won't have the last laugh.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 10:32 AM

I guffaw, only remainiacs snigger -though God knows why!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 11:02 AM

Friday.. something happening...??? hmmm Friday...??? Friday..????

oh.. remember now.. it's fortnightly all recycle bins and rubbish day...
and deadline for electric and water bills..
I knew there was a reason this Friday was at the back of my mind...

Life goes on regardless...............


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 11:47 AM

C'mon pfr. You know what this Friday is.
The deadline for self-assessment tax returns.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 12:05 PM

blimey.. there's so much going on this Friday,
it's almost impossible to keep track
of all the more boring events...

my mrs wants me to do something as well, but it's completely gone out of my mind..

erm.. fix the washing machine, or something...???


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 08:17 AM

British Airways has suspended all flights to and from China.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 08:25 AM

The new speaker rebukes Bercow.
https://order-order.com/2020/01/29/hoyle-rebukes-bercows-rule-breaking/#disqus_thread
Lindsay Hoyle previously promised he’d scrap Bercow’s reforms that tore up parliamentary precedent; and after today’s PMQs, he made his most public rebuking to date. Watch his post-PMQs statement in full above.

Last January, Bercow caused outrage by overruling the advice of the clerks in allowing an out of order amendment from Dominic Grieve, defying the advice of his senior clerk, and firmly showing the world he had completely abandoned any pretence of impartiality. At the time, he forbade his clerk from making any public comment…

Today, Sir Lindsay has announced a new procedure that will allow the Clerk of the House to publish his advice in the House of Commons Library if the Speaker makes a decision which compromises current Commons rules. Bullying allegations, no peerage and now his legacy being torn up – 2020 isn’t looking like a great year for Bercow…


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 09:41 AM

Gotta hand it to the Tories..
They do spiteful vindictive revenge far better than most other folks could ever lower themselves to...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 10:41 AM

Sir Lindsey Hoyle is a Labour MP, pfr.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 11:07 AM

BWM - yeah.. that's as may be..

But tories still do spiteful vindictive revenge far better than most other folks...

Anyways.. pity poor Sir Lindsey Hoyle - what a toxic tory working environment
he's been landed with...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 11:21 AM

Oh yes, can’t disagree pfr.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 12:08 PM

Meanwhile, at clown central:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7942823/Fury-Labour-analysis-written-Jeremy-Corbyn-loyalists-clears-leader-election-hum

I guess they are booking trips to the skeleton coast - a fine piece of wilderness(last time I was there)
Alas poor Labour, thank God I never knew them well.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 12:18 PM

I've just got out the bathroom, eyes a bit bleary from soap & water..

I couldn't help reading that as..

"Jeremy-Corbyn-loyalists-clears-leader-election-bum"...!!!

Now that's more the sort of thing you's usually expect of tories,
growing up with nanny wiping their bottoms for them...
and brown nosing their way through career promotions...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 01:26 PM

EU votes overwhelmingly for Brexit
621 for 49 against.

We're OFF


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 01:33 PM

.. OUR heads...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jan 20 - 11:18 PM

Adieu, E.U.: British reps pack their bags as European Parliament approves Brexit

Here's a sample of a fairly long article:

Molly Scott Cato's rail ticket for her final trip back to London is printed and ready on her office desk. Her mementos from her past six years as a member of the European Parliament have been removed from the walls. One of the last things to go in a cardboard box will be her "Brexit: not my cup of tea" mug, which is still serving duty this week.

“It’s a very weird thing, isn’t it? Shutting the whole thing down. Switching off the light,” she said.

She’s bracing for the stroke of midnight as Friday turns to Saturday, when Britain will leave the European Union and, a bit like Cinderella, she’ll shed her status as a lawmaker and turn back into a civilian. . . .

As the hours of Britain’s membership dwindled, U.K. lawmakers prepared to mark the occasion in their own ways. In one lawmaker’s office, the assistants this week were applying for unemployment benefits and searching for other jobs. In another, preparations were underway for a rueful party Thursday evening at Place Luxembourg, the plaza outside the European Parliament that is lined with bars.

“People keep giving me their condolences,” said Magid Magid, the British Green Party lawmaker planning the party."


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 08:15 AM

Fuck brexit


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 10:15 AM

You've covered tens of thousands of posts and millions of words in two little words, Bonzo. Excellent!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 10:32 AM

Wot? A rabid, raving, Right-Winger, and he’s anti-Brexit?
Something doesn’t add up.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 10:37 AM

The force is strong!(despite Brexit)

Brought to you by Guido

https://order-order.com/2020/01/30/getting-brexit-done-confidence-surging/

"As we approach the greatest day in our history, we must not forget the impact of the #FBPE cult,

Alistair Campbell, Andrew Adonis, Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Femi Olawala, A C Grayling, People's Vote UK et al,

Their inability to accept democracy and their ridiculous arguments #GotBrexitDone. Thank you."


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 10:43 AM

Good to see Becky Long-Bailey on the ticket. But I'm extremely worried about her campaign. I've heard rumours of fallings-out among her campaign team, and her website is shambolic: after ten minutes I gave up trying to find out anything about the leadership campaign!! We need a firm, organised leader who can get a grip. This has got to change. See if you can pass anything on, Dave!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 10:44 AM

He's not all bad, John. He's a dog-lover after all... ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 10:52 AM

Yep - I’ve always seen Bonz’s love of dogs as his saving grace. Perhaps he’s go two saving graces?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 10:53 AM

GOT! :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 10:58 AM

We need a firm, organised leader who can get a grip.

As my old Mum used to say: "I wants never gets!"

There is a song that fits: "Dream the impossible dream"


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 11:18 AM

Bonz is alrightish for a right winger..

he's into 1960s rock music and electric guitars...
and he's got a provocative punk attitude I can identify with...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 01:12 PM

And so the 'fun and games' begin.

Now we will hear squeals that the EU is being unfair, unreasonable etc etc.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/30/uk-businesses-to-face-extra-checks-at-borders-under-pms-brexit-plans


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 01:42 PM

I see the US is insisting that that the lower food standards (as exemplified by but not limited to the infamous chlorinated chicken) must be part of the trade deal, while Rabb and Johnson insist in will not be.

So it will be, then.

(Before anyone says, it is not to do with chlorinated chicken is or is not safe: if you demonstrated it was safe, that still leaves all the other differing standards, so don't bother thinking that is all about chicken. In any case, wasn't it all about taking back control so if we say 'no', that is what happens … isn't it?)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 01:49 PM

I'll see if the Daughter in law will have a word, Steve. Son #w, said D-I-Ls spouse, is into computer stuff. Maybe he can help :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 01:59 PM

Only remainiacs squeal as you very well know. We brexiteers are made of sterner stuff. Perhaps it is the girlie hormones in the Guardian ink that makes you squeal.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 02:19 PM

I see the level of 'debate' gets higher and higher.

It is a case of wait and see. A lot will have to be worked out between now and the end of the year. No doubt the truth will lie somewhere 'some' of the remainers darkness and glood, and some of the leavers sweetness and life.

Until then we will have endless speculation no doubt.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 02:22 PM

Well.. if we must enjoy watching a punch up between tory remainers, and right wing brexiteers..

I'll put my money on bonzo..

..ermm.. if I had any.. and if i was a betting bloke..


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 04:16 PM

Looks like the promises are starting to be broken already. Humpty-Dumpty asking all departments to come up with expenditure cuts, despite having declared a few months ago that ‘austerity is over’.

One thing you can always trust a Tory to do, is tell lies.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 03:48 AM

": 'Be pleased to inform Her Majesty that the European flag will no longer flies alongside the Union Flag above Westminster.
God Save the Queen."


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 04:10 AM

It is striking that some leave supporters care a lot about symbolism, like passport colours or whether a flag is flown, but when asked whether the government (which has "taken back control") says "no" to lowering the food standards will stick to it, they have nothing to say.

Will they stick to "No" on this, do you think?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 04:18 AM

Talking of symbolism, the last cabinet meeting prior to brexit will take place oop north in Sunderland – famously the first place on the 23rd June to vote leave. Sunderland Council will light up buildings in red, white and blue…

There are flood warnings in place for remainer salt tears!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 04:45 AM

Ode to project fear!

Dame Vera Lyn


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 05:42 AM

With the lowering of food standards I would have thought that "Whale meat again" would be far more apt :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:32 AM

Reminds me of the Tesco horse meat scandal, in which someone concocted a photo of a horse sitting on the self-service till with the message "unexpected item in the bagging area" :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:43 AM

It was highly amusing to see ‘Wiggy’ Neill on Politics Live yesterday, making mincemeat of the Tory Clown over our leaving the Common Fisheries Policy. The more Wiggy proved he was talking shite, the harder he tried to make his shite sound like truth! Poor, deluded fool - hilarious!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 07:08 AM

Remainiacs and exiteers could not have seen a global pandemic coming but the fictional suspense novel 'Beach of Immunity' brings to life the story of the Immune Island of Britain as the last harbinger of life for humans. .. until Volume 2 https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Breach-Immunity-Hite-Molly-Saint-Martins/3051087042/bd
:^)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 07:24 AM

Lots of truth here in the New Statesman.

I sincerely hope I live long enough to tell the brainwashed, malleable minority of the U.K. population who were persuaded by a tiny number of immensely-wealthy, immensely-powerful people to vote for this tragedy that “I told you so”.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 08:37 AM

Ann Widdecombe has just said this is one of the best days of her life..

Well.. she's never had a wedding day, or given birth, and is possibly still a virgin;
and she adheres to strict religious views on life and pleasure..

So she's not exactly a 'normal' women who's judgement of what constitutes a "best day"
has much in common with most other folks...

Still, who's to deny her what little she does find to celebrate in her quirky restricted life...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 10:02 AM

I see the remainiacs are still trying to spin the idea that a minority voted for brexit.
Funny that Brexit was won then, is it not?

The luddite labourites and adherants to cult corbyn insist they won the argument. What a quaint idea!
However we won the election and that is the only thing that counts.
Prior to the election Chris Curtis, the political research director at YouGov, the UK's biggest pollster, summed it up:

    "The chances of the Labour Party getting a majority are about as close to zero as it's possible to get."
Ipsos Mori found only 16 per cent of voters were satisfied with Mr Corbyn's performance, compared with 76 per cent who were dissatisfied.

That made him the most unpopular opposition leader since Ipsos Mori began polling 45 years ago.

Former Labour leader Michael Foot had an approval score of -56 in 1982 — a year before he lost in a landslide to Margaret Thatcher.

and now the wallys are about to elect a corbyn clone as leader.
Talk about turkeys voting for christmas! 'Tis a joy to watch.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 10:16 AM

Antisocial buffoons can gloat as much as they like about winning an election.
It's keeping the electorate on side
and winning the next one that really matters..

Unless they intend using their newly grasped power in attempt to dismantle democracy,
and install themselves as leaders of a permanent one party state...???


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 11:26 AM

Unless they intend using their newly grasped power in attempt to dismantle democracy,
What utter nonsense!
Find yourself a proper opposition party if you do not like what is on offer. Giving support to a party hellbent on suicide, and then talking about the party in power dismantling democracy by grasping power shows a woeful lack of grip on reality.
How can a party be accused of grasping power when they won a majority in a lawful election?
The only people that could legitimately be accused of dismantling democracy are remainiacs and labour. Their antics, aided and abetted by the treacherous speaker are a matter of public record. Theyt frustrated breixit from June 2016 until December 2019, when the electirate had their say.
and we all know how that turned out, don't we?

Democracy restored on the 12Dec.
followed by
Sovereignty restored 31st January

Isn't it great to be british and a brexiteer?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 11:46 AM

That took you over an hour to assemble
from your go-to kit of prefab right wing rhetoric phrases and sound bites..

At least it keeps you occupied and give you some purpose in life...

I'll do what I can to help sad folks, I'm nice like that...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 11:55 AM

It's funny how some people keep reliving past events. It's almost as if they want to derail any discussion on the failings of the present administration.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 12:01 PM

"Isn't it great to be British and a brexiteer?"


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 12:51 PM

THE FRENCH BREXIT SONG


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 01:11 PM

200


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 03:51 PM

Brexit is today, right? Bon courage!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 04:05 PM

We don't just want to brexit the EU but help get rid of it; apart from some local government, all any citizen of our world needs is their own nation & the UNITED NATIONS; my poem, from WalkaboutsVerse, "Nationalism without Conquest"


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 04:59 PM

We don't just want to brexit the EU but help get rid of it

Who is this we?

Don't include me in your sweeping xenophobic statements.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 05:19 PM

Those are not "xenophobic" words, Dave, and neither are these - God's speed to all Scottish (and English and Welsh) Nationalists.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 05:36 PM

Don't include me either. You have a record of xenophobia (or worse) and misogyny here, as I've pointed out before.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 05:50 PM

If you imaginary friend did exist I think he would rather see all peoples united rather than shunning their neighbours.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:03 PM

"all peoples united", Dave, under the United Nations - no EU, no Commonwealth, no G7/8 or G20, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:03 PM

...and no UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:06 PM

I'm glad we've left the EU (check the time) but I don't want to see it destroyed. I think it may well destroy itself in the next decade. If it does there will be a chance to create what it should have been.

Don't worry about accusations of misogyny and xenophobia. It's standard UK lefty technique when someone has the temerity to say stuff they don't want to hear.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:09 PM

We've taken back control! We have Trump and Pence leaning on us over 5G and we're bending! We take chlorine chicken and GM beef or we're stuffed! We kowtow to the EU over trade - or else!

The only thing I feel I have control over is my bladder. And at my age even that might not last long....

We've regained sovereignty! Well, except that the US will be telling us what we have to do far more than the EU ever did...

But we've got democracy back!

Ditto that last point...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:13 PM

Don't be so blind, Stanron. Just look at his recent postings here, and look at the related bits of cod-poetry and "blogging" on his website. You don't have to look very hard. People like you and him have got the vote. You should thank the Lord for that flaw in democracy.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:19 PM

Stan - when we can honestly recognise the dickheads on our own sides,
and stop defending them;
then we all might stand a better chance of getting along more amicably
with the good folks on the opposing side...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:37 PM

Could it be that part of the problem is the concept of 'sides'?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:38 PM

He's way too bitter to listen, pfr.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:44 PM

Your "side," which you gleefully espouse, is what has split this country down the middle. Your man in 2016 called a referendum that there was no real appetite for in the country in order, he thought, to see off the people like you on the far right of his party and to sideline Farage. Your man failed miserably and created the sides that you are now pretending that you disapprove of. Let's hope that the split doesn't define this country for years to come, but, if it does, be assured that your lot created the "sides" that simply didn't exist before 2016. Therefore, get real just for once.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:47 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: He's way too bitter to listen, pfr.
No bitter tonight but I cracked a half bottle of fizzy Prosecco at 11:00 pm. In pubs bitter was my drink. My favourite was Hydes Anvil at the Jolly Angler behind Piccadilly station but it's years since I was there. The pension is adequate but wont stretch to Pubs and taxis.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:50 PM

Stan - I've never been one for actively taking sides,
it's an unwelcome concept imposed by circumstance and other folk's bad habits;
which I just fall into and go along with as I have to...


It's usually other folks who decide I'm the enemy on their opposing side..

They set themselves apart, and put me in a spot from where I need to resist...

I don't hate other folks, but I do despir of most of 'em...

I don't do tribalism..


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:57 PM

Prosecco is a thoroughly EU drink. I'm drinking a glass of Sicilian appassimento Nero d'Avola on purpose. I've even been to Avola. Little Englanders don't think this way...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:58 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: Your "side," which you gleefully espouse, is what has split this country down the middle. Your man in 2016 called a referendum that there was no real appetite for in the country in order, he thought, to see off the people like you on the far right of his party and to sideline Farage. Your man failed miserably and created the sides that you are now pretending that you disapprove of. Let's hope that the split doesn't define this country for years to come, but, if it does, be assured that your lot created the "sides" that simply didn't exist before 2016. Therefore, get real just for once.
Just about everything in this post is wrong, from 'no real appetite' to '"sides" that simply didn't exist before 2016'. You express an ignorance of what was actually going on that is no real surprise to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 07:02 PM

And that isn't a reply. It's just a yah boo sucks post of no actual substance. Finish your EU prosecco and go to bed, old man. You'll wake up a free man tomorrow, somewhere in mid-Atlantic, with no no friends....


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 07:05 PM

Anyway, I've ended this week, and month, happily playing with my new fuzz box..
Got it half price brand new..
It does a full range of vintage 1960s and 70s tones..

These are the good positive small things in our insignificant lives..

I usually don't care what someone else's politics are when we are getting along talking about guitar gear..
Unfortunately international online guitar forums have become soap boxes
for loud mouthed extremist far right xenophobic bigots,
mostly American and East Europeans.
Though all parts of the world are over-represented by converts to neo fascist populism....


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 07:08 PM

Even though it's gone midnight, I am tempted to brew another mug of tea..
and have a mini Crunchie bar..
I am British after all...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 07:23 PM

It's a rare mistake if I attack individuals here (click on my name, if you wish) but, at the same time, receiving personal attacks won't stop me criticising the status quo and offering solutions - I just copy/pasted similar to the above on the Facebook pages of CNN, Fox, ITV, Channel 4 and 5 news, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 07:27 PM

I'm trying not to snack after midnight. I've just eaten half a pound of Spanish cherry tomatoes (no calories...) and am still quaffing the dregs of that bottle of Sicilian red. I'm not quite pissed enough yet on this sad and momentous night, so I might just see if I can find a drop of Scottish single malt. Three countries mentioned there, two still solid EU members and one which may well be again soon...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 07:35 PM

From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:44 PM
Your "side," which you gleefully espouse, is what has split this country down the middle. Your man in 2016 called a referendum that there was no real appetite for in the country in order, he thought, to see off the people like you on the far right of his party and to sideline Farage. Your man failed miserably and created the sides that you are now pretending that you disapprove of. Let's hope that the split doesn't define this country for years to come, but, if it does, be assured that your lot created the "sides" that simply didn't exist before 2016. Therefore, get real just for once.


Typical Steve Shaw bollocks. He claims there was no appetite in this country for a referendum. If so, why did the leave voters win that referendum.
The 'sides' he mentioned (those for leaving the EU, or remaining in the EU) certainly existed before that time. It was just that the leavers had no major political party which espoused their viewpoint.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 08:27 PM

"Typical Steve Shaw bollocks. He claims there was no appetite in this country for a referendum."

That's very gratuitously rude. In fact, REAL fact, there was no passion abroad in this country for a referendum. None at all. You lost the elections in 1997 and 2001, and arguably in 2005, despite earnest campaigns by deluded Tory leaders to use Europe as your trump card ("24 hours to save the pound" etc). Cameron, the biggest bloody idiot in our politics for a century, called that referendum to try to sideline his own right-wingers and to marginalise Farage. Nothing to do with the interests of the country. He was, in his hubris, convinced he'd win. He was lamentably wrong, in the same way that privileged and entitled ex-Etonians are always wrong. So here we are, a country terribly divided. You think that will heal quickly? Well, your ex-Etonian tousle-haired hero thinks it will but it absolutely won't. Get real, Nige. This is just the beginning.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 08:36 PM

Having read through this entire thread in one go - as an American author advised we should do, and he noted for his horrific imaginings - I found many facts and opinions of interest, two of which I think might bear a little more "input".

First, punkfolkrocker posted "France's Brexit song", in which, as Hugh MacDiarmid observed nearly a century ago, the singers "use 'England' when the UK's meant". Lord Goold, once a high-ranking Conservative Minister, once said that the Tories wouldn't bother about demands for Independence in Scotland until people were smashing windows in Sauchiehall Street (and anyone adding, "you mean every Saturday night?" runs the risk of being "called out" for stereotyping...).

Secondly, re. "electability" (Labour Party & its leader), bearing in mind the power of the Press &c., as instanced several times above. What does this actually mean? A leader and a party deemed acceptable by whom? Just setting a perr o' mappys jinkan.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 08:41 PM

Spot on Nigel. I'd known for decades that I had not had a chance to vote for the UK becoming subject to EU law. The 70s vote was to remain in an economic union. I had voted for that and when the EU was formed I felt cheated. I have no doubt that most people who were paying attention felt the same. As for sides, Margret Thatcher was ousted from power because she was becoming more and more anti EU. Remember "No no no"? The sides go back to then, if not earlier.

Steve Shaw lives in a land of make believe and wishful thinking. His sarcasm is kind of comic.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 09:33 PM

And your understanding of politics is so facile that you make me feel like I'm losing faith in people like you having the vote. Go to bed for chrissake. Anyway, I thought I'd celebrate this inauspicious occasion, though it's long past me bloody bedtime, by listening to Lennie Bernstein, one of my great US heroes (Gershwin being the other, along with Woody), conducting the "freiheit" version of the finale of Beethoven 9. Very poignant, as the ode to joy has been sort of adopted by the EU, and that Beethoven, though a man of his times, was ultimately a great internationalist and a believer in the good of mankind. Unlike these bloody vicious, idiotic, xenophobic brexiteers who want to pitch "England" back into those illusory glory days of yore wot never happened...sick man of Europe, etc... Even more poignant in that Lennie died less than a year after that great occasion. Bedtime, Stevie boy!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 09:54 PM

At least a lot of brexit obsessives are going to wake up this morning/afternoon
with chronic hangovers and sickness...

The bastard in me hopes their next door neighbours start up early dawn
non stop
DIY hammering and drilling...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 11:30 PM

My thoughts..

Leave obsessives were long in advance better organized and mobilised to vote,
hence the very slender majority referendum win...

Remainers were not as well organised to defend an obviously flawed status quo.

The rest of the population were not well prepared, particularly interested, or sufficiently enthusiastic,
to vote at all
on such a complex and arcane topic...

Whatever, better hope brexit works out for the benefit of us all,
and not just the profiteering wealthy elite...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 01:09 AM

Hectoring folks that something is wrong, it's the fault of foreigners,
so we should all turn our backs and walk away from it..
is a damn sight easier than persuading enough of them to stay to try to fix it...

..anyway, life after a decade of tory austerity goes on regardless...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 01:58 AM

If there were no call for a vote on our being part of the EU, when offered a vote we would not have voted to leave.

Nigel. Once again I must point out that 17 million voted to leave, 16 million voted to remain and 13 million did not vote. Just think about that. 16 million wanted to remain and did not want the referendum. 13 million did not vote and did not care about the referendum. That is a massive 29 million who had no appetite for it as opposed to 17 million who did. Now come back and show us how Steve's analysis was incorrect.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 03:13 AM

someone's woke up on the far right side of the bed this morning...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 03:18 AM

17 million wanted to leave and wanted a referendum

16 million wanted to remain and did not want a referendum

13 million did not vote and did not care for the referemdum

An overwhelming majority (63%) had no appetite for a referendum.

Would anyone care to give a logical counter argument rather than engage in personal abuse and try to get the thread closed?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 04:26 AM

We can argue until we’re blue in the face, but the simple unadorned fact is that the Brexit-Brigade got it their way and we’re out.

But this isn’t the end, it’s the beginning of Brexit, and the people who pushed us over the cliff have now got to start living up to their promises. If they thought it was tough getting to this point, they ain’t seen nothing yet.

And it’s not Remainers who need to hold the Tories’ feet to the fire, it’s those who supported and voted for Leave. If, as the majority of Remainers believe, the Leavers were persuaded by dis-information, mis-information, and barefaced lies, the Leavers are the ones with the responsibility of ensuring that the promises of ‘sunlit uplands’ and ‘easiest deal ever’ etc. are lived up to. They voted for it - time to take responsibility.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 04:28 AM

More ridiciulous mathermagic with numbers! All pointless of course.
Those with a vote voted for brexit. We won. You lost. Get over it.
It ain't gonna change.
Off we go to the sunny uplands! I suggest you hitch a ride on the Hogwart's express.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 04:35 AM

What we voted for:

“Independence, the freedom of a self-governing nation, is in my
estimation the highest political good, for which any disadvantage, if
need be, and any sacrifice are a cheap price." Enoch Powell


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 04:42 AM

I noticed Enoch enjoyed VISITING India and think he was an anti-immigrationist not a racist.

I don't like Germans pricing young Spanish couples out of the property market any more than moneyed English - I want English and Germans to VISIT Spain and the EU to dissolve.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 05:24 AM

I just went to bed: around 10:45 which is a little on the early side for me (11:30pm.is more common.)

At 11pm there was what sounded like a cannon shot - new year is often sounded like that round here - then nothing. No fireworks, no cheering, just the normal night time sounds like our resident owls.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 05:47 AM

Some cheer for those feeling a bit sad about Brexit...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 06:19 AM

And no one can dispute the logic of equating 63% of the country not wanting or not caring for the referendum to most of the country having no passion for it so they revert to changing the subject of abusing people.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 06:30 AM

I can't manage links but try this. If you have tears, prepare to shed them now.

https://twitter.com/rogershistory/status/1223390135183708163?s=12


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 06:38 AM

Here ya go Steve...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 06:41 AM

Cheers! At least it worked when I tried it.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stanron
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 07:20 AM

It says "This is what loss looks like".

Who's lost what? The EU has lost it's second largest financial contributor and the UK has lost it's largest non productive financial outlay.

That's before we start looking at what we have gained.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 08:11 AM

And no one can dispute the logic of equating 63% of the country not wanting or not caring for the referendum to most of the country having no passion for it so they revert to changing the subject of abusing people.

I see you have the same problem with logic as you do with numbers. Labour has the exact same problem!
As a result, like you, they can be safely ignored for the indefinite future.
No numbers equals no influence. Numeracy rules!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 08:41 AM

It looks like Gibraltar could be the first sacrificial victim

Still, they voted strongly to remain, so what's the problem?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 09:47 AM

Yep. And we can expect a lot more of this:

"As an EU member state, the UK had been able to resist Spanish claims over the territory but Madrid will now have the full support of the other 26 countries in the bloc." (from your piece). No more veto!

Perhaps our little band of crowing brexiteers could explain how this represents our "taking back control." Oh, and perhaps they have something to say about our "sovereignty"...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 09:54 AM

If just one of our mudcat conservatives would publicly disown Iains and tell him to STFU,
we might start getting somewhere towards healing divisions,
and trying to work together positively and pragmatically
towards making the best of a shared future post brexit...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 11:27 AM

It’s all summed up perfectly in this article by Ian McEwan. Never have so many been made fools of by so few.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 11:51 AM

"Brexit, the most pointless, masochistic ambition in our country's history, is done" [Ian McEwan in today's Guardian]

A brilliant polemic. I won't bother picking bits of it out. It's a spiffing good read and it's the sword of truth.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 11:53 AM

Blimey, sorry about that, John! The 14-minute gap between our posts was me reading the article wot I'd found in the Guardian.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 11:53 AM

24 minutes!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 12:02 PM

...And that does NOT make me a slow reader - I was following Liverpool's magnificent 4-0 victory over Southampton at the same time!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 12:15 PM

We have had a request that "everyone has to stop the name calling." Personal abuse will, quite rightly be removed. If there is to much of it the thread will be closed. You know who you are. I would also ask people to not respond to such abuse or to flame bait. Responses to trolling make the moderation team's task a lot more difficult

Thank you.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 12:29 PM

Mods - please delete my post

"Date: 01 Feb 20 - 03:13 AM"

since the latest posts cull, it now looks like I'm having a laugh at the wrong target [DtG]...

cheers...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 12:47 PM

"As an EU member state, the UK had been able to resist Spanish claims over the territory but Madrid will now have the full support of the other 26 countries in the bloc." (from your piece). No more veto!

Utter tosh from the Prosecco kid!

Spain's legal claim to Gibraltar is weak. It does not dispute the Treaty of Utrecht of 1713, the document which formally ceded the Rock to the British "in perpetuity"
and therefore it is undisputed British sovereign territory.

To further argue it is a colonial relic calls into question the status of contemporary Spanish North Africa:

    Spain's two autonomous cities: Ceuta and Melilla, plus other minor territories (plazas de soberanía)
    The Canary Islands
There is already a territorial dispute with Morocco.
The Independance movement in the north could well be reinvigorated by any move on Gibralter.
The law of unintended consequences could kick in.

Be nice to see the European court of justice be given a good drubbing by the UN, should they decide to side with Spain.
This would of course lead to questions being asked about the French presence in Gabon and Cameroun and the CFA currency - it has a healthy whiff of colonialism in all but name.(I saw plenty of French troops in Port Gentil when I worked there.)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 03:22 PM

obviously the folk on gibralter care and would prefer to stay in the EU - so obviously that makes more sense than ancient treaties. bit like scotland really


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 03:29 PM

"Utter tosh from the Prosecco kid" isn't exactly in keeping with "everyone has to stop the name calling" is it?

Stick to the rules and the thread may just stay open. Keep on breaking them and you ruin it for everyone. I cannot make it more simple.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 03:31 PM

Boris sends Warships full steam to Gibraltar...

.. the Falklands worked a treat for Maggie...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 03:42 PM

Is that what he said, Dave? I don't even read his posts.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 04:54 PM

Everybody, please...don’t interact with him, don’t speak to him or about him, don’t respond in any way - just ignore him and leave him to it.

Pretty please...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 05:24 PM

obviously the folk on gibralter care and would prefer to stay in the EU - so obviously that makes more sense than ancient treaties. bit like scotland really
The reality:
In Gibraltar, where the Remain vote was more than 96 per cent, the Remoaners have moved on from the referendum with scarcely a backward glance at the European Union.
Chief minister Fabian Picardo told a Commons select committee at Westminster that Gibraltar’s Remain vote had less to do with any attachment to the EU than a fear Spain would capitalise on Brexit by pursuing its ambition of reclaiming the Rock.
Since the referendum, Spain has, indeed, offered to keep Gibraltar inside the EU if it allows Madrid to share sovereignty over it with London.
In 1967 The result of the Gibraltar referendum was an overwhelming vote by its inhabitants to retain their links with Britain. Of the 12,762 Gibraltarians qualified to vote, no fewer than 12,138 voted to remain with Britain. Only 44 opted for the transfer of the Rock to Spanish sovereignty.
They voted again in 2002 when the result of another referendum with 98.48 per cent wishing to remain with Britain.
“We are not looking to remain as part of the European Union as being partly Spanish,” Picardo said. “The only way that somebody could describe that offer as generous would be to be entirely disingenuous.

“This is the generosity of the predator that thinks that its prey is finally prone and it’s going to take the price it’s been seeking to extract for the past 300 years,” he said. “Neither the people of the United Kingdom nor the people of Gibraltar are a prey that is on its knees, seeking any generous offer from the people of Spain.”

The Spanish have previous form:
During the 18th century, despite suffering three separate sieges at the hands of Spain, Gibraltar remained British.   
Blockaded by land and sea and faced with death by starvation, Gibraltar did not give in. During World War II, our entire civilian population was evacuated from Gibraltar out of fear of a Spanish-assisted German invasion. We survived. Fast-forward to September 1967.
Spain, then ruled by a fascist dictator, Gen. Francisco Franco, presented the Gibraltarians with a choice, the fundamental element of which is similar to the choice touted today: to pass under Spanish sovereignty. Knowing full well what the consequences would be, our hands did not tremble at the ballot box. Armed with a paper and a pencil, Gibraltarians voted 99.6 percent to remain British. In retaliation, Franco closed the border, families were separated, terrestrial links to Spain were torn, and labor, food, and hospital supplies had to be sourced from Morocco and elsewhere. This modern-day siege lasted more than 13 years. Spain refused a formal offer from the U.K. in 1966 to settle the question of Gibraltar’s status at the International Court of Justice. One can only infer why that was the case. Spain’s sophistic arguments over the isthmus could also have been resolved then.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 05:31 PM

whatever.....


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Mossback
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 09:29 PM

"This has been a historic week for self-destructive politics. Like turkeys voting for Christmas, the British government celebrated its withdrawal from its biggest trading relationships just as Republican senators celebrated their own castration.

Both sets of magnificent morons claimed they were acting for their imaginary friends in the future: a future where Britain will once again bestride the ocean, and presidents will once again lead the free world feeling free from the fear of partisan impeachment."


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/31/republicans-impeachment-trump-richard-wolffe


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 03:12 AM

We know that the people of Gibraltar voted overwhelmingly to stay in the UK and overwhelmingly to stay in the EU. Anything beyond that is speculation, whoever says it.

Any international treaty can be rescinded if the parties involved agree. So there are only really two fundamental questions:

1. Is the EU solidarity with Spain sufficient it will move to a no deal if it comes to it?

2. Is the UK desire for a deal greater than its desire to retain Gibraltar?

I do not know the answer to either question and nor, at this stage, does anyone else. What I am certain of is that those are the questions that matter, and not what was written some three centuries ago in a treaty.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 03:51 AM

What I am certain of is that those are the questions that matter, and not what was written some three centuries ago in a treaty.

I seriously doubt many others share your certainty!

Good to see you support project fear!
Seen any fire and brimstone yet?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 05:00 AM

Tom Peck’s view in The Independent of the nonsense in Parliament Square on Friday night...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 05:19 AM

The abhorrent Norwich poster demanding residents speak English or leave, and accusing them of "infecting this once great land" .

I hope everyone here agrees the police are right to investigate this and bring charges if possible. Leave voters have often been accused of racism. This is a chance to clearly reject that.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 05:33 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcjOjiUGwwQ

How we arrived where we are. A very articulate presentation.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 06:08 AM

The hate message on the poster is composed of ungainly and often ungrammatical English, contains two extraneous words, is missing essential punctuation after "choice" and lacks a necessary apostrophe in "Queens." Some irony there, I'd say, considering the supposed intent of the message.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 06:16 AM

”The hate message on the poster is composed of ungainly and often ungrammatical English, contains two extraneous words, is missing essential punctuation after "choice" and lacks a necessary apostrophe in "Queens." Some irony there, I'd say, considering the supposed intent of the message.”

Hardly surprising though, when you consider that the writers of the message are precisely the same kind of people who exhorted us to ‘Take Are Cuntry Back’ during the 2016 Referendum campaign.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 01:52 PM

If you want the contents of that other short-lived UK political thread (Hilary Benn) transferred over here let me know. The political rancor has to be confined to one place, otherwise it drives away users from the site.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 04:33 PM

Will Hutton, in today’s Guardian suggesting that the threat to Johnson will come, not from the opposition parties, but from within his own Tory party. That his deal with the devil, in the form of the vicious and powerful ERG grouping will be source of his undoing.

Fingers crossed - it can’t come soon enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 05:51 PM

Not bothered, Maggie. Just leave it where it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 06:26 PM

The abhorrent Norwich poster demanding residents speak English or leave, and accusing them of "infecting this once great land" .
I hope everyone here agrees the police are right to investigate this and bring charges if possible. Leave voters have often been accused of racism. This is a chance to clearly reject that.


Yes, the message in that poster was abhorrent. The police are investigating. I hope a prosecution will follow for inciting racial hatred.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 02:11 AM

Thank you Nigel.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 05:10 AM

Nissan has drawn up a plan to pull out of mainland Europe if Brexit leads to tariffs on car exports — but to double down on the UK, where the Japanese company believes it could sell one in five cars.This would see Nissan close its struggling Barcelona van facility and stop manufacturing in France. The Sunderland plant in the UK would be maintained to grab market share from other carmakers.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 05:24 AM

All Nissan have to do now, then, is to stop making shitmobiles...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 07:51 AM

Johnson dropping it out in his speech this morning that he’s looking for “A Canadian-style, or even Australian-style“, trade agreement with the EU. Errrrrmmmm... Australia don’t have a trade agreement with the EU, they have a few ‘facilitation arrangements’ but no full-blown trade agreement.

So, despite having repeatedly claimed during the GE campaign that he was determined to get a trade-deal with the EU, today he effectively quietly slipped in a suggestion that he’ll be perfectly happy with, or is even aiming for, a No-Deal Brexit. Precisely the thing he denied was his aim before the election.

Now Brexiteers, repeat after me...”Johnson is a serial liar, he cannot be trusted - ever!”.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 09:33 AM

All Nissan have to do now, then, is to stop making shitmobiles...

Nissan rank no 6 in the world in terms of market share.
That puts them well ahead of BMW, Mercedes, Kia, Chevrolet and Hyundai.

Some obviously write shit!
Fact dear boy, fact!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 10:02 AM

A spiffing speech from Boris. Very symbolic to hold it on the prime meridian very close to one of Licolnshire lad Harrison's chronometers.
These two items enabled accurate navigation and concomitant explosive growth of International trade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0Tg7jFSwQM


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 10:12 AM

World rankings are no measure of quality. I'm pretty sure that Justin Bieber is more popular worldwide than Martin Carthy. Does that make him better?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 10:35 AM

In a discussion about oranges, why introduce apples?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 10:41 AM

to be honest i think i would prefer a justin bieber gig to martin carthy - he has got very dreary in the last decade or 3. i wouldn't pay for either, mind you


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 10:41 AM

Nissan is a well-respected brand here in the US, in status and reliability coming in above the US car makers Ford, GM, and other imports like Kia, Mitsubishi, etc. And I love my Pathfinder; I can fill it full of people or stuff. It does have more plastic than it used to, but it gets better gas mileage that way.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 10:53 AM

not forgetting the Nissan Dorma - very popular with opera singers touring on a tight budget..


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 10:56 AM

anyways, for all his bluster and lies..

we need to hope boris keeps the tory far right nasty nutters at bay,
and actually delivers some positive results for all of us...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 11:05 AM

I always thought they missed a trick in not having a camper van

The Nissan Dormabile

:D


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 01:15 PM

pfr - if we have learned anything in politics in recent years it must be to imagine the worst that could happen and then expect it to be worse than that. hope is foolishness in the current circumstances and nothing will happen that is good for all of us. on the other hand i've booked some festival tickets today (ireby, shrewsbury) and that's a good thing to do - felt like there is a bit of light and hopefully sunshine at the end of this shitty tunnel. and - i don't think- martin carthy and justin beiber are appearing at either


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 01:38 PM

Here we go... Dom & Dumber adopting more Trump-Tactics in an effort to bring in back-door press censorship, and stifle criticism of Tory chicanery.

Hope the neo-Tories in former Red-Wall areas are pleased with the destructive effect their Tory votes are having on democracy.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 01:49 PM

Workingtonman - I've never been very good at being optimistic...

The last time was probably when I was about 14 [at an all boy's grammar school],
and was sure I would get my hands up inside a girl's bra eventually...

Can't remember which party was in Govt.. I was too preoccupied with the contents of girl's bras..

But i definitely got a lot more action at parties, gigs, and discos
when Wilson and Callaghan were PMs...

Not the sort of statistics we usually see mentioned at elections...???


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 02:16 PM

Here we go... Dom & Dumber adopting more Trump-Tactics in an effort to bring in back-door press censorship, and stifle criticism of Tory chicanery.

Typical lefty nonsense off the guardian.

The reality courtesy of Guido
https://order-order.com/2020/02/03/lobby-stages-walkout-number-10-briefing/

and of course since Guido started live tweets from No10 press briefings the hacks from such comics as the guardian cannot hide their spin quite so easily.
Terrible things facts


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 02:30 PM

funny how guido and his youtube allies are always right.. innit...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 02:48 PM

Not really!
If the lefties tried original thought instead of blindly following the guardian and the BBC their recent horrendous defeat in the Beneral Election may not have been quite so bad.
There is no point in me telling you this of course, every dispassionate analysis of Labour's recent obliteration comes to the same conclusion.
Just look who you have left as potential corbynators in the leadership challenge, one in trousers, one in a skirtbut same old same old when it comes to policy.
Off to the wilderness with you!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 02:49 PM

So what part of the brain is malfunctioning in fanatical folks
who are absolutely certain they are always in the right,
and anyone they deem to be a foe
is constantly wrong...

I'm almost inclined to think there has possibly been research into this phenomena..??????????????

.and if not, there probably needs to be...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 02:59 PM

Re Streatham, trying to have a multiple number of cultures living under the 1 state law is a stupid dangerous idea; it's our world/our UN that should be multicultural NOT each nation; my poem, from WalkaboutsVerse, "Nationalism without Conquest"


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 03:27 PM

stupid dangerous xenophobe poet
spouting bollocks, and don't we know it...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 03:35 PM

I think we know, PFR, that if the latest 2 terrorists in England had been repatriated/deported instead of imprisoned, their attacks would not have occurred.

And as for "xenophobe", I doubt anyone loves our world being multicultural more than I.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 03:45 PM

yeah.. you love multiculturalism
as long as they stay in their own countries and none of 'em come here..


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 03:46 PM

it's a good job so many of us Brits are so tolerant,
even to Aussies...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 04:04 PM

"even to Aussies", PFR...and what were you saying just before that?

For what it's worth, although I very rarely meet English who accept it, I see myself very much as an English repatriate, having been born here the day Alf Ramsesy's English team won the FIFA world cup, and having now lived here more than half my life.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 04:29 PM

I was here years before the world cup, and have lived in Engerland all my life..

That makes me better qualified to be a British nationalist xenophobe..
I have seniority...

Fortunately for you, I'm inclined to let you stay..
as long as you stop trying to stir up shite between different cultures
who are most welcome to come and live here...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 04:53 PM

"I'm inclined to let you stay" PFR...that's about as close to "welcome home Dave/Davo" I've received since repatriating on Swithin's Day 1997!!

It was a nice day, by the way, and, when the white-van man driving me and 60 kg of luggage from the airport to a "Bayswater Bed-Sit" pointed out that the royals were holding a party in one of London's fine gardens, I said: "well, for what it's worth, I didn't come home for a party".


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 05:19 PM

The hold door of a plane carrying Nissan spare parts accidentally came open. It was raining Datsun cogs...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 05:30 PM

if the latest 2 terrorists in England had been repatriated/deported instead of imprisoned, their attacks would not have occurred.

What you mean is that their attacks would not have happened in England. The inference being that if criminals attack foreigners in another country, you don't care because you have washed your hands of them.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 05:32 PM

...that's the other problem here now, Steve - trying to get a native English car, when our roads once were flooded with them :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 06:10 PM

The job of a poet is to inspire mental imagery..
.. and can't get much more mental than this...

I now see gangs of minis and morris minors chasing down and beating up lone defenceless foreign vehicles..

Beetles and 2CVs left battered and unconscious in laybys.
A bubble car dead in a ditch..
But wait here comes a gang of Lambrettas tooled up to fight back...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 06:31 PM

PFR - all showered with Steve's Nissan spare parts including Datsun cogs!

Re Dave the Gnome at 03 Feb 20 - 05:30 PM

If repatriated/deported, Dave, they would not be living among "idolaters", as in "Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them" (Surah 9, The Koran).

And, if you are tempted to say "taken out of context," please read the rest of Surah 9.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 07:14 PM

The last two terrorist incidents were perpetrated by British citizens, so I'm not quite sure where you'd want them deported/repatriated to...

Reminds me of my old man a few years ago. Dunno whether it was the Trooping Of The Colour or another of those vacuous royal dos, but there was a guy marching with the bebusbied brigade (for which bears have to be murdered, by the way) who was wearing a turban instead of a busby. Apparently, though he was qualified to be marching along with the Queen's Royal Whatsit regiment, he was obliged by his religion to wear the turban. The old chap went mad at the telly, declaring that if this fellow didn't want to stick to British tradition he should bugger off back whence he came. Well I looked the bloke up. I found that he'd come from West Bromwich, born and bred. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 08:17 PM

Wav:
I think we know, PFR, that if the latest 2 terrorists in England had been repatriated/deported instead of imprisoned, their attacks would not have occurred.
Assuming you're talking about Sudesh Amman (Streatham attack) and Usman Khan (Fishmongers Hall) The latter, at least, was born in Stoke-on-Trent and was of British nationality. Where would you have him repatriated/deported to? We have little choice but to deal with our 'home-grown' terrorists in this country.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 10:20 PM

Perhaps he'd want them transported to Australia, just like the good old empire days...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 01:38 AM

WAV, stop with the bad poems; it's a cheap way to push your old works. You treat them like chapter and verse in a much older venerable text. Amos seems to have kept you in check; yet another reason to really miss him.

Stoke-on-Trent seems to have been in the news a lot lately.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 01:41 AM

On a point of order, and at the risk of being accused of Nigelism, I'd just point out that...

1) It's not 'the Trooping of the Colour', it's 'Trooping the Colour' - no definite article, and no preposition.

2) The funny hat worn by Guards regiments isn't a 'Busby', it's a Bearskin. The Busby is a much smaller fur hat, shaped rather like a large Fez, which is worn by, for instance, horse-artillery.

Carry on, Number One....


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 01:52 AM

who will win labour leadership


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 03:01 AM

Whoever it is will be a better option than Boris the Bluffer


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 03:28 AM

No deal has been the intention all along - it’s what his multi-billionaire-paymasters, aided and abetted by the selfish money-grabbers of the ERG, have told him to do. Some of us have known it since the Referendum.

I’ll say it once again - Johnson is a serial liar, he can’t be trusted - ever. Leopards don’t change their spots.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 05:42 AM

Why on earth would anyone expect Johnson to be honest about damage from Brexit? Johnson is an inveterate, serial liar.

He. Tells. Lies.

Repeatedly.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 08:05 AM

”The lion has become a mouse, a mouse trying to roar. It may make Johnson and his colleagues feel good. But they owe it to the country to swiftly reach a free trade deal with the EU, and that means free.”

Wonder when the neo-Tories in former Red-Wall constituencies will wake up to their own foolishness in allowing The Liar-in-Chief to bamboozle them?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/03/boris-johnson-weak-brexit-uk?CMP=share_btn_fb


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 08:17 AM

Gosh, John, I didn't have you down as an arch royalist pedant! :-) But cheers for the correction anyway. I should really have known. My uncle was actually one of the guards at Buckingham Palace wearing one of those big tall bearskin jobs many many moons ago…


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 08:41 AM

Anyway, we're ditching internal combustion engines, I see. Goodbye, Ford Pop, old friend... ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 09:16 AM

Vindictive bullies seizing power in Govt.
while reasonable sensible opposition voices are shouted down, dismissed, and vilified..

Thuggish supporters of the Govt become increasingly bold in their intimidating internet threats
to anyone they declare to be their enemies..

If tory ministers wore military officer style uniforms, the UK populace would have a clearer idea
of what's really happening..

Not so distant political history repeats itself...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 10:17 AM

I admit to being a pedant, Steve, but I’m not by any stretch of the imagination an arch-royalist (although I have to admit I have a preference for a benign, benevolent hereditary ruler with no power, rather than the monsters we see elected as Heads of State in, for instance, the USA and Russia).

I do have an interest in history though.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 10:21 AM

I see Ryanair at its recruitment fair in Manchester in February is making a condition of applicants that they must be the right to live anywhere in Europe because they require the ability to ask their staff to be relocated to any of their hubs as their base.

Providing their conditions are legal, a business can decide to employ who it likes, so if this is what they decide, that's all there is to it. If that ends up excluding British citizens without dual nationality, it's not their problem as long as they can get enough applicants.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 11:59 AM

I quite like the idea of being ruled by Royals as discussed by Terry Pratchett when referring to the rulers of Lancre, a cold mountainous country with hard nosed tough people, which I reckon could be Yorkshire :-)

Anyway, the King wanted to introduce a democratic government, which the population dismissed out of hand on the basis that they would not do the King's job for him. When he asked what they would doing he was a useless or cruel ruler. The answer to that was easy. They would chop his head off and put a better king in his place :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 01:26 PM

"Perhaps he'd want them transported to Australia, just like the good old empire days..." (PFR)...I hate imperialism, be it American, German or British.

"Assuming you're talking about Sudesh Amman (Streatham attack) and Usman Khan (Fishmongers Hall) The latter, at least, was born in Stoke-on-Trent and was of British nationality. Where would you have him repatriated/deported to? We have little choice but to deal with our 'home-grown' terrorists in this country." (Nigel)...When indigenous south Asians, spurred on by Gandhi after he repatriated from South African, began asking Europeans to repatriate some English, e.g., were 4th or 5th generation - they were still called English and they still repatriated.

And as for Trooping the Colour, I enjoy the marching and the music but hate the use of horses - the saying "chafing at the bit" is ridiculous because all the poor horse wants to do is get the damn thing out of its mouth. My poem, from WalkaboutsVerse, SRS, questioning "Horses for Courses?"


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 01:30 PM

PS - "led by" would have been a better choice of words than "spurred on by" sorry, all.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 01:43 PM

I wrote a poem the other day,
it was quite shite, but I didn't throw it away.
In fact I claimed it was very good
and declared everybody on the internet read it should...

Right now, I am stuck on a poem about gandhi,
I can't get beyond the rhyme "hand shandy"...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 02:01 PM

...For I am the Great PunkFolkRocker -
A bard born to be a WAV knocker.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 02:12 PM

Nah.. Don't flatter yourself..

Resisting your reactionary nonsense is hardly my mission in life..

There's plenty more significant irritants and absurdities
for me to play about with...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Mossback
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 02:30 PM

WAV, stop with the bad poems;

Amen, and a thousand thanks for that, Stilly.

Now, if we can only find a way to stop his white-supremecist BS, or perhaps stuff a sock in his gob entirely......


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 02:37 PM

I did stop in 2003, Mossback/SRS, but have since added simple notation to the lyrics and photos to some of the poems...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Feb 20 - 02:22 AM

Walkaboutverse. I am neither for nor against your poems. I don't "get" the ones I have read but that is common. They obviously mean something to you and I admire your persistence in writing down and compiling your thoughts in a creative way. However, they do nothing to explain your position. You say, on the one hand, that you respect all cultures yet, on the other, your posts about keeping cultures in their place and off loading criminals to other countries flag you as reactionary.

Would you care to explain your position, in prose that we can all understand, on migration? Particularly into the UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Feb 20 - 02:51 AM

Pimple-Brained Brexiteers’ handiwork on Brexit Night.

What decent, intelligent person would want to be a part of a grouping whose members are so xenophobic and stupid as to do this? What a shower of buffoons.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 05 Feb 20 - 03:17 AM

Why Labour was crucified in the polls. Their message did not resonate with voters.
Below some reasons:
Painful for Labour, but sadly all too true.

Why labour lost


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Feb 20 - 07:47 AM

"Why Labour was crucified in the polls. Their message did not resonate with voters.
Below some reasons:
Painful for Labour, but sadly all too true.

Why labour lost
"

Labour lost partly because the party is a bit shite and inept.
That much is Labour's fault..

But Labour mostly lost because the international populist far right has become too overwhelmingly influential,
attractive, and persuasive for mass 'ordinary' voters..

But why did Boris win...???

We can ask the same question about the rise to power nearly a century ago
of a nasty little Austrian bloke with a funny moustache...!!!

Boris and his backers and advisors certainly learned well from their expensive exclusive public school history lessons...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 20 - 10:06 AM

Why Democrats lost"

Democrats lost partly because the party is a bit white and inept.
That much is Demorats's fault..

But Demorats mostly lost because the national populist far right has become too overwhelmingly influential,
attractive, and persuasive for mass 'ordinary' voters..

But why will Trump win...???

We can ask the same question about the rise to power nearly a century ago
of a nasty little Austrian bloke with a funny moustache...!!!

Trump and his backers and advisors certainly learned well from their expensive exclusive military school devoid of history lessons...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 05 Feb 20 - 11:03 AM

Donuel. Labour called a demographic uneducated and did not know what they were voting for and that did not resonate with voters.
The democrats called a demographic deplorable and wondered why that did not resonate with voters.
Pelosi's behaviour yesterday was deplorable and that guarantees Trump a second term.

Do you see a pattern emerging here? Insulting the electorate doers not win votes.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Feb 20 - 12:36 PM

Educating them to how government works and what their civil responsibilities are (these classes were typically called "Civics" or "Government" and have fallen out of favor along with Latin and Home Ec.) Courses that taught people how to get along at home, how to participate fully in government, and how to read meaning into the words they're using. Schools are discouraged from offering these classes by government leaders who require an uninformed electorate to get ahead.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Feb 20 - 01:40 PM

Dave at Date: 05 Feb 20 - 02:22 AM

I chose reality poetry as my medium so as not to leave folks scratching their head over what I'm getting at :-(

And your next point is easy to clarify - I love our world/our United Nations being multicultural but NOT each nation.

However, I do support what we might call medical immigration (I have met albinos in Kenya and Fiji who, it seems obvious to me could live a far better life as far from the equator as we are here in England), genuine asylum seekers being helped to their NEAREST safe nation and, if a couple fall in love in holiday, they have to live in one country or the other.

And I hope you can accept that I see my nation as England not the UK, as per the six nations of rugby.

(Please note - strictly prose with no link to a poem, although I have had to steel myself!)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Feb 20 - 01:52 PM

Walky - we don't care about your irrelevant crackpot ideas and poetry..

There are millions of folks on this island who tower above you
in the hierarchy of importance..

..and none of them needily demand our attention as much as you do..

.. Though many of them would be far more interesting and useful if they did...

Just be thankful I don't dig out some of my old song lyrics and photos...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Feb 20 - 01:54 PM

You tell him please, Dave.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Mossback
Date: 05 Feb 20 - 02:59 PM

Schools are discouraged from offering these classes by government leaders who require an uninformed electorate to get ahead.

Ahem.

Correction: Schools are discouraged from offering these classes by REPUBLICANS who require an uninformed electorate to get ahead.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 20 - 03:02 PM

If pessimists have a negative affective aspect score of 10,
pfr you are having an 11 day by criticizing a person with a below average rating.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Feb 20 - 03:03 PM

Schools are discouraged from offering these classes by REPUBLICANS who require an uninformed electorate to get ahead.

Well, classes like that are not exactly standard in the UK either. Even way back in my education, I think I was around 17 before the school started talking about such matters.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Feb 20 - 03:35 PM

Don - I accept I'm possibly not in my most tolerant frame of mind today..

But there are times when cruel to be kind tuff luv is necessary...


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Subject: BS: Convicted terrorists - no early release!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 08:08 AM

Legislation to be passed for the prevention of early release for convicted terrorists - bloody good job too!!


UK Political stuff is confined to one thread right now. Keep it that way, please. PFR you've started two other political discussions this week, and we're trying to avoid the proliferation of fighting topics.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 10:21 AM

Young beccie ids getting crucified inthe polls. Even 5bellies is pulling ahead/
From Guido(of course) Survey by ipsos mori
https://order-order.com/2020/02/06/labour-members-almost-agree-public/

and for an early april 1ST, the following has been released by Luxenmburg
Following the departure of the United Kingdom from the European Union at the end of January, the EU has announced that Irish English will replace British English as the union’s primary working language.

The change, effective immediately, was announced on Monday by European Commission president Ursula Gertrud von der Leyen, who says the unity of the 27 remaining countries is “grand” despite Brexit and the years of the UK “foostering about.”


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 10:50 AM

"PFR you've started two other political discussions this week, and we're trying to avoid the proliferation of fighting topics"

NO I HAVEN'T...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A case of mistaken identity, as well as arbitrary gratuitous thread deletion...

Bonzo's thread was shaping up intelligently, and Sen's presence and contributions,
made it a better than average discussion...

Those are the FACTS..


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 11:43 AM

Oops. It was still a political thread. Discuss it here, not in a new thread. That is the point.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 11:48 AM

No problems, me and Bonz are so easy to get mixed up..
I wake up thinking I'm him more and more frequently
now I'm getting old...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 12:55 PM

...maybe you could both meet up in the Isle of Mann sometime this year..?!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 01:26 PM

WalkaboutsVerse blah blah Manx,

that's cockney rhyming slang..

hah hah.. thanks...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 01:26 PM

What are you going on about...????????????


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 01:44 PM

...was just thinking you could shake a leg or 3 there - wiki.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 01:59 PM

Hahaha the triskelion flag of Man!

I didn't realise I was being a Very Naughty Girl by posting on Bonzo's thread. And I wouldn't have said that discussing prison sentences was particularly 'political', merely a 'what should be done about these people' type of a thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 02:44 PM

Some time ago, I was taking part in a thread on an American guitar forum where ‘politics and religion’ are taboo topics for discussion. A guy was talking about using a certain type of used gun-cartridge to make a hole in a guitar strap to fit an end-pin jack-socket. I replied that, as civilians generally aren’t permitted to possess guns in the UK, what he’d described was meaningless to me. The Mods told me that I’d crossed the line into a political discussion, and that if I continued, I would be blocked from posting on that thread.

I think Americans’ understanding of ‘political’ is different to ours.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 03:42 PM

Of course Backwoodsmen you mean "North Americans". I'm sure that South Americans would have more sense, and almost certainly Central Americans!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 03:59 PM

I’m pretty sure that, when the term 'American' is used, it’s generally understood to mean ‘of, or belonging to, the United States of America'. When referring to South America, it’s standard practice to refer to it as ‘South America’


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 03:57 AM

"Brexit Day +7
There's grounded planes, chaos in the streets, unpaid workers, crippling strikes, a faltering economy, a buffoon in charge, petrol bombs, riot police, snipers on rooftops.
But enough about France... ??"


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 04:02 AM

a friend visited korea recently - apparently the country beyond the southern border is commonly referred to as america. there's only one korea- not saying it's any good, mind you


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 06:07 AM

Folks in Buenos Aires DO NOT consider USIans to be "americans" but "North Americans" which is geographically correct.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 07:20 AM

I was talking about the rest of the world, Bonzo, not just BA. Now be a good boy, and stop trolling.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 07:43 AM

and of course people - here and abroad- commonly refer to england when they mean britain. or the south east when they mean england. and of course brexit britain only refers to about a third of the population who actively voted for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 07:57 AM

Lovely people, those Tories, aren’t they?

Strangely, the media in general don’t seem very interested, barely a mention anywhere. There was a bigger outcry from the press about Tracy Brabin’s dress! Wonder why that could be....??


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 08:38 AM

"I was talking about the rest of the world, Bonzo, not just BA. Now be a good boy, and stop trolling"

People in other South American countries I have visited hold the same view about USAian arrogance.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 10:41 AM

A significant bunch of Patagonians consider themselves the furthest South Welsh...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 02:07 PM

As suggested earlier, hopefully there will soon be a drop in Brits, if not Germans and other northern European members of the EU, pricing young Spanish couples out of the property market.

What Spain really needs is another El Cid (if not El Cid?!) to drive suchlike out in the name of Land Rights
.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 02:32 PM

The first hurdles to free trade are being erected. Michael Gove has stated today that trade barriers will be put in place. This of course will add to the costs of those buying those goods, that is you and me.

This will be in addition to the increased costs we are already "enjoying" because of the fall in the value of the pound (approx 10%) since the referendum.

But no matter "we're all in it together" …...…..aren't we?

Link


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 03:34 PM

...what we humans all should be into together, Raggytash, is, from WalkaboutsVerse, "Global Regulationism"


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 03:28 AM

I see the Prime Minister is announcing a £5bn bus fund (over 5 years.)

Whether is will happen at all, is pure spin, or have any real effect are significant points, but as I have said before he seems to have a good understanding of how influential a bus service can be. Whether you live in a town with buses every 20 minutes, or a chocolate box village with one a day or a new estate with no bus service within a mile, adding a bus can really make a difference to people's lives. It can enable them to cut the number of cars people need, which affects their wallets.

I don't know whether he understands this, or it instinctive or he just likes buses, but it is totally different to Maggie's claim.that if you were still using a bus when you were 30 - or whatever age she said - you were a failure.

And it must be said that this has a more direct and immediate effect on people's lives than nationalisation, which is a far more abstract proposition.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 07:39 AM

I note that the economy is stagnating. Just the start, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 09:38 AM

the uncertainty for individuals and families working away from their country of origin - and for ordinary citizens worried about the increase in dispute and rancour in our country - caught up in all this nonsense started a long time back.

(yes, i know - and worried about the decline of grammatical standards)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 09:44 AM

Worky - If I had the money I'd eff off from this, my miserable country of origin,
without a glance back over my shoulder..

I certainly would not be happy with any xenophobic nationalist crackpots trying to stop me...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 09:48 AM

oops.. sorry.. I'm not fully awake yet and blearily confused worky with walky..

.. and my reflexes kicked in...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 11:20 AM

if we must have this ridiculous hs2 project then it should begin in various northern destinations and the construction should head south ....

however, if - as usual - the south gets all the initial funding/jobs etc first there is less chance of it ever getting far enough to waste the northern environment and woodlands.

i sort of feel the thing won't happen anyway - everything in politics is changing so fast that planning beyond 6 months ahead seems to be wild and unlikely speculation. hwever, we could start by sorting out links between northern cities and east to west communications and get all the new buses, bringing a bit of life to smaller towns and villages. after that is all in place - then think about whether can afford to build a massive and massively expensive project.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 12:31 PM

Basically, which individuals are going to profit most from today's decision..

..and, how many are British...???


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 01:26 PM

"If I had the money I'd eff off from this, my miserable country of origin, without a glance back over my shoulder" (PFR).

Surprise, surprise, I wrote a poem about this subject - and surely you, too, PFR, would miss "snow on swans" and "willows by a stream".

With upper lip newly stiffened, I do hope you stay in the Old Dart...

"Millennium Dreams"


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 01:39 PM

Walky - there's nothing I'd miss about England that I couldn't find better somewhere else,
if I had the money...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 01:49 PM

i'm hoping we could afford glasgow but i hae ma doots


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 02:11 PM

...so save your boots!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 02:25 PM

Walky - all my boots have steel toe caps..

Even my sandals have steel toe caps [European Builders Sandals..]

You can't be unprepared in the poxy town where I live...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 03:16 PM

"Walky" began life sleeping in braced boots designed to stop his left clubfoot re-clubbing and, at 53, is now leaning more toward scenic swims than walkabouts for enjoyable exercise...Deepwater Bay, on my Hong Kong VISIT last year, was a beautiful swim.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 03:44 PM

But why not enjoy a swim off the beaches of our delightful Bristol Channel resorts...
Swimming with dolphins is nothing compared to swimming with condoms, tampons, and turds...

England, the land of History and mythology,
of idealised rural splendour,
of morris dance and maypoles,
loved by real patriots...
But a bit of a shitehole for everyone else awake to 21st Century reality...

Mind though.. morris and Boris does rhyme for any poetic minded deluded escapees of the here and now..


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 04:11 PM

Good point. I think Boris dancing should involve sticks rather than hankies though...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 04:49 PM

...or tuneful tangling in flags..?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 05:36 PM

Flags are already far too weaponised...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 05:41 PM

I was remembering that Olympics hand-over ceremony.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 05:44 PM

...when Boris appeared about as statesman like as Ronald McDonald.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 01:48 AM

”when Boris appeared about as statesman like as Ronald McDonald”

SNAFU.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 05:16 AM

.With the High speed rail link obtaining the go ahead, a little background info to think about.
The BBC 2011
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-13924687
and another oldish link
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/69741/hs2-cost-and-risk-model-re

I suspect the costs of purchasing the right of way and adjacent compensation claims are far higher than the figures quoted above.
Personally I would prefer to see the EW links develped up north. The last section of the A180 to the UK's largest port at Immingham is still only dual carrigeway until it crosses the Humber Bridge access road and the equivalent north of the Humber into Hull is about the same with the M632 morphing back to an A road in the middle of nowhere.
It will be interesting to see future major transport infrastructure projects around the proposed free ports.
None of it will be cheap. Elevated motorway comes in at approx a tenfold increase in price, a tunnel perhaps 20fold maybe much more if uforeseen ground conditions occur.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 06:40 PM

If I might be afforded a moment of levity, in 1974 at Broadford on the Isle of Skye my dad and I visited the local pub for a spot of lunch. There were two signs on the wall behind the bar that I noticed. One was in the shape of a US coin, and round the edge it said IN GOD WE TRUST. THE REST PAY CASH. The other said CREDIT IS AVAILABLE TO CUSTOMERS OVER THE AGE OF 90 PROVIDED THEY ARE ACCOMPANIED BY BOTH PARENTS.

Well the latter was outdone today by a report in the Guardian, which stated that an Italian man aged 101, resident in the UK since 1966 and who has had to apply to stay in the UK post-brexit, has been told by the Home Office that his parents must confirm his ID...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 12:29 PM

Steve didn't you warn in the past thats its all in the details.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 01:19 PM

I see Cummings has sacked Javid.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 01:32 PM

Even more interesting news, Dave - it’s all here!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 01:38 PM

From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 01:32 PM
Even more interesting news, Dave - it’s all here!


If you want to be taken seriously:
a, moderate your language
b, don't link to 'spoof' websites.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 01:42 PM

From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 01:19 PM
I see Cummings has sacked Javid.


Cummings cannot 'sack' anyone.
Even according to that mighty left wing journal The Guardian Javid has not been 'sacked'.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 01:44 PM

From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 06:40 PM

If I might be afforded a moment of levity, in 1974 at Broadford on the Isle of Skye my dad and I visited the local pub for a spot of lunch. There were two signs on the wall behind the bar that I noticed. One was in the shape of a US coin, and round the edge it said IN GOD WE TRUST. THE REST PAY CASH. The other said CREDIT IS AVAILABLE TO CUSTOMERS OVER THE AGE OF 90 PROVIDED THEY ARE ACCOMPANIED BY BOTH PARENTS.

Well the latter was outdone today by a report in the Guardian, which stated that an Italian man aged 101, resident in the UK since 1966 and who has had to apply to stay in the UK post-brexit, has been told by the Home Office that his parents must confirm his ID...


Read the article a little more closely. When filling in the forms (with help) it became clear that there was a problem with the dates being input. This has ALL BEEN SORTED OUT.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 02:01 PM

So which country and/or international Billionaires is Cummings really working for...???

Does Boris even know...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 02:44 PM

Meanwhile Labour is spiralling into its death throes. The leadership hopefuls will have scratched each others eyes out by the time April arrives. Interesting the voting closes on April 2nd. Voting on the first would have been far more appropriate.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 03:36 PM

Don't pretend to be so naive, Nigel. It is obvious who is pulling Boris's strings. Javid himself pointed the finger at Cummings. And I would rather have any amount of Backwoodsman's language than your deflections any day.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 03:46 PM

Dismissing someone as not serious because of using a few swear words
is an age old tory stand by trick to weasel out of difficult uncomfortable conversations...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 05:46 PM

”Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Nigel Parsons - PM
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 01:38 PM

From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 01:32 PM
Even more interesting news, Dave - it’s all here!

If you want to be taken seriously:
a, moderate your language
b, don't link to 'spoof' websites.”


Re: b. - yes, I knew it was a ‘spoof’ website. It was humour - something you seem to possess very little of.

Re: a. - I will post anything I choose. You are not a Forum Moderator, and you have no authority to tell anyone else what they may or may not say. So fuck off and mind your own fucking business, you pompous wank-puffin.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 05:53 PM

And you don't think that I knew the rest of the story, Nige? I posted the bloody thing to leaven the heavy dough here for chrissake, you twit. Get a life, why don't you.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Gervase
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 06:32 PM

Goodness. I couldn't face scrolling through the whole thread, but just the name made my heart sink. And as I post I can see the last two posts above mine and the heart sinks further. What the hell has happened to this place?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 07:18 PM

Same as it ever was, mate. There never has been a golden era. Max was pleading with the forum to bloody behave as far back as 2002.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 03:58 AM

It seems Bojo's fixer had a spiffing day yesterday. He did tell the spads last week "I will see half of you this week."
He jesteth not!

Will 5 bellies make it through to the second round in the Labour immolation contest?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 05:51 AM

"Will 5 bellies make it through to the second round in the Labour immolation contest?"

Why don't you post a photo of yourself so that we can all take the piss out of YOU?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 06:43 AM

We don't need a picture. Steve :-)

Nigel. Just for you in case you want to pretend this was anything other than a hatchet job

Sajid fury over PM knifing


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 06:54 AM

Hardly a hatchet job, the bounder had gone rogue with his leaked crazy proposals.
and for those that know nuffink:

The First Lord of the Treasury is the head of the commission exercising the ancient office of Lord High Treasurer in the United Kingdom, and is by convention also the Prime Minister.

There ya go! Boris is boss and it's his way or the highway, and he is ably assisted by the chief spad Mr Cummins.(master of the dark arts)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 09:16 AM

First Official Photo of Johnson’s re-shuffled Cabinet. ‘Andsome bunch aren’t they?

Note for Nitpickers: Yes, I’m fully aware it’s a spoof - FFS grow a sense of humour!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 09:37 AM

But how are we supposed to tell present day tory reality from spoof these days...???

At least back in the era of the classic TV satire Spitting Image
we knew which ones were the puppets...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 11:09 AM

They’re all puppets now, pfr. Dom & Dumber have made sure of that.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 11:21 AM

.. and how much longer now before the new Tory government starts wearing military style uniforms...???


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 04:45 AM

This bright brexiteer makes you proud to be British :-)

On a more serious note, I suspect this will be one of millions of "Not the brexit I voted for" comments :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 05:20 AM

and 5 bellies fell at the last hurdle - too much mass get over and not linber enough to limbo under.
So now it is down to the alien, the false night and the flagbearer for cleaning out labour antisemitism. They all seem to have as much charisma as magic grandad !


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 05:21 AM

Mulling over some thoughts this morning to cheer myself up. It was a manifesto commitment for both the Conservatives and Labour to get rid of the Fixed Term Parliament Act. So this will happen. The question really is whether the Act is simply declared null and void, or if it is replaced by something else defining the methods of bringing a session to a close. I think that more likely.

Quoting from one site:
====
With one exception, all previous parliaments ended when the crown or the government chose, the only constraints being the 1694 Triennial Act, the 1716 Septennial Act, and the 1911 Parliament Act, which decreed that fresh elections must be held at least every three, seven or five years respectively. The five-year rule was suspended during the two World Wars, but has otherwise been respected for more than a century.

====
So it is certainly possible that the replacement act leaves open a much longer, or even indefinite, duration for Parliamentary sessions. I would not expect any such extension to be explicit, but I could see sufficient loopholes being left to have that effect.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 05:31 AM

Mrs. Backwoodsperson works for a company whose European HQ is in Rotterdam, and she travels frequently to their HQ via Schiphol. She says nothing’s changed, holders of British passports, including the ‘new’ non-EU British passports (she has one, but it’s not blue, they’re still the same dark red colour as the ‘old’ EU-British passports) still use the ‘EU’ lanes. She says that, during the five or six years she’s been doing the Schiphol run, and during busy periods, the EU lanes have always been very busy and have involved queueing.

I really am wondering exactly what ‘kind of Brexit’ that bonehead in the linked piece did vote for. And, of course, if he wasn’t in the ‘EU and certain other nationalities’ lane, he has nobody to blame but himself.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 05:57 AM

Please don't delete the 05.20 AM post, mods. It will be useful to refer back to when this hypocrite burbles on about how we insult him. For your information, The post refers to Emily Thornberry, a Labour politician who is of ample proportions and who is a thoroughly decent lady.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 06:10 AM

It's not even as it it is original. Remember Gazza's mate, Jimmy Gardner?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 10:44 AM

We used to call a fellow postgrad at teacher training college "Five Holes." I never did discover why, though he was a bit earnest and full of himself.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 01:04 PM

two Jags / Jabs.. [not enough of his kind left anymore..]

one Bollock.. [an infamous German leader admired by furthest right tories..]...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 02:35 AM

Compulsory contraception, Eugenics, and stop worrying so much about FGM

Quite a lot in the press about this new guy just appointed to work for Dominic Cummings and currently working on "some" government projects.

Sounds a really lovable chap.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 03:51 AM

Oh, I’m sure there will be one or two regulars here shortly to tell us he’s a wonderful fellow, DMcG.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 05:16 AM

With an 80 seat majority in the house the tories can totally disregard the perpetually whining lefties. Labour are powerless.
Isn't that wonderful?

If you wish to condemn spads perhaps you should look at Labour's former master of the dark arts. Alastair Campbell was Bliar Blair's Director of Communications and Strategy,

He was the one who released the dody dossier and outed Dr Kelly.
How many deaths are on his conscience?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 05:26 AM

Why bring the Al Fayeds into this?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 06:10 AM

Which has no relevance to whether you agree with the new advisor or not, does it Iains?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 10:40 AM

If trapped in a sticky spot in a discussion,
bring up anything that comes to mind the opposition did anytime in the last half century..
Then make quick getaway...

======================================================================

btw.. links to the Indy are no use while they nag about my ad blocker, any alternatives...???


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 10:55 AM

The same story on 'The Mirror'


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 11:00 AM

”One government special adviser told BuzzFeed News: “Hiring this imbecile is an insult to those who came before, which is a minor point I know, but jesus wept it makes me ashamed.”

Birds of a feather, yadda yadda....


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 11:03 AM

DMcG - cheers...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 11:12 AM

"Dominic Cummings' called for “misfits and weirdos”"

A devious strategy for sneaking in ukippers and much worse
through the back doors and windows of tory Government...

Actually, come to think of it, I'm a misfit and weirdo
[and there's plenty more of us on the margins of the left..]..

Any chance of a few hours lucrative weekly work from home,
or am I the wrong sort of misfit weirdo...???


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 01:16 PM

get in there pfj. personally, since seeing the headline 'workington man to decide the election' i've been waiting for them to ask me for my decision. still waiting - something must have gone wrong as our mp is now an ex bnp -ex ukip-tory eejit and well-known local thug. it's supposed to be a green, socialist, scottish alliance with caroline lucas as pm. i'm sure we'll get it sorted soon. i guess we must still be in the EU as the nhs is still in financial crisis.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 05:03 PM

Well the 'superforecaster' we were discussing has quit, even before everyone had a chance to say if they agreed with him or not. But never fear, he is still saying the only reason he quit (or was he pushed?) was because his views were a distraction from the government, not that they were in any way wrong.

So we can still hear from our regulars if they agree with him.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 10:55 AM

i put the radio on yesterday morning and first thing i heard was a government voice saying 'we will not submit to EU regulations' submit eh? what eejits - why not co-operate with people who are good allies and our biggest trade partners? what is it with all this shitty old war nonsense? anyway, i just turned the radio off and got through the day -again - trying to avoid all this hideousness. doesn't matter how dumb or deceitful they are - that's us stuck with this for 5 more years at least. blame corbyn as much as you like - i do- but how can we ever do anything about the forelock-tugging turnip third of the country who will vote for these wreckers whatever happens?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 12:03 PM

”but how can we ever do anything about the forelock-tugging turnip third of the country who will vote for these wreckers whatever happens?”

No idea, Workie. But not to worry, with any luck our resident forelock-tugging turnip troll will be along shortly to tell us.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 12:54 PM

Wouldn’t it be a delicious irony If only it were true?

Note for forelock-tugging turnip nit-pickers - yes, I know it’s a spoof website, that’s the point, it’s a joke!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 12:56 PM

"Mr Sabisky accused the media of "selective quoting" and "hysteria"..

.."I know this will disappoint a lot of people but I signed up to do real work,
not be in the middle of a giant character assassination," Mr Sabisky added.
"

Tuff shit Sabisky..

Your despicable gang of guido worshipping smearers can dish it out a plenty,
but you can't take it yourself.. Little cry baby...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 11:48 AM

TONY BLAIR has revealed he supports Prime Minister Boris Johnson on his Brexit plans as the former Labour leader said the party should forget about campaigning to rejoin the EU.
Who would have believed it? Even bliar blair is deserting the corbynated clowns that are labour.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1244905/tony-blair-news-brexit-news-boris-johnson-EU-latest-speech-video
Latest reports also suggest the pocket napoleon and merkel are having a hissyfit over the blackhole that is funding.
How very sad!
I wonder what they will do with all that champagne and fleets of mercs. when we crash out. The Elgin marbles was a step too far!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 03:21 AM

what are the conservative party conserving these days - all looks anarchic to me. and for what again?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 03:38 AM

”what are the conservative party conserving these days”

As always, they are conserving their own wealth at the expense of the less-wealthy. That’s what conservatism is - the upward flow of wealth, from the less-wealthy to the more-wealthy. That’s precisely what Conservative policies are designed to promote and maintain.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 04:04 AM

The conservatives have policies they are fast implemnting.
What does Labour offer, apart from a "wishlist" making them totally unelectable?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 05:21 AM

I must say that the new rules on UK politics threads seem to be working. Apart from the occasional right wing fart, which I'm glad to say everyone ignores, the air is far cleaner nowadays:-+)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 05:24 AM

Has the goblin popped up for a troll? A meaningful contribution is obviously beyond his capabilities


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 05:29 AM

A policy that they are fast implementing and which they are fast going to have to backtrack on is the immigration policy, fronted by that obnoxious, dishonest, shallow and smug woman Patel. Just wait until the whole care system collapses... Bloody racist Tory claptrap.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 05:46 AM

I hear they have flown in 100 Filipino nurses today to cover a shortfall. That won't be possible next year.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 06:31 AM

Having spent a total of around a year in hospital since 2006, I can safely say that some of the hardest-working, most caring, and straight-up nicest nurses I’ve had the pleasure of being cared for by have been those from south-east Asia and the Pacific. One called Ela from, IIRC, the Philippines, and another whose name I forget who came here from The Solomon Islands were absolutely fantastic.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 09:43 AM

So from now on UK unemployed and school leavers will definitely be coerced
into minimum wage shit prospect jobs
or mickey mouse training schemes,
without any pretense that that they have a free choice or real career development...???

.. and tory PR spin will make it all sound like a wonderful opportunity all round...

At least thatcher's govt inadvertently ran some genuinely useful unemployment schemes
like community programme and enterprise allowance,
which enabled motivated individuals to retain some autonomy and independent control
over their own career development choices..


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: BobL
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 02:23 AM

Thatcher's govt also steered us away from coal, thirty years ahead of everyone else...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 05:11 AM

Actually it was Wilson presided over the greated decrease in post war coal miners. Between 1960 and 1970 numbers dropped 607k to 290k. Then 1980 to 1990 a further drop to 48k. By 2000 numbers were down to 11k.
The numbers had been in continuous decline from the 1920s. By 2002 imports exceeded home production. The reason for the decline was economic rather than political, even though the left tries to make political capital out of it. Since 2012 imports of coal have also fallen off a cliff. Beeching cuts and the move away from steam cut coal consumption by approx 12million tons a year(10%+/-)back in the 60s.
In 1971, conventional coal and oil power plants accounted for 88 per cent of electricity supplied to the UK market. Last year coal’s share had shrunk to just 5 per cent. And between April and June this year it fell to an all-time low of just 0.6 per cent.(2019)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 02:01 AM

Anybody heard what our Prime Minister is doing lately? He seems to have gone very quiet - not that that’s a bad thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 02:33 AM

He is enjoying the entertainment of watching the EU fighting over how to fill their black hole of funding.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Mossback
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 10:33 AM

Thatcher's govt also steered us away from coal,

It also steered away from Unions, compassion, probity, reality........


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 02:05 PM

It also steered away from Unions, compassion, probity, reality..

We look forward to seeing some examples to justify your post. Otherwise it is simply inflammatory words.(as usual)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 02:37 PM

Iains - even you can't deny the attack on unions...!!!???

..and as for compassion..
selfish ruthless spiv loadsamoney yuppie culture
was not such an enthusiastically openly promoted phenomena before thatcher... was it.. innit...

probity...??? see above...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 02:54 PM

"reality".. oops.. too much of a rush.. failed to notice that one..

..but it's so easily done..

especially by ideologically zealous politicians and bloggers...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 03:26 PM

He'll deny anything and everything. He knows even less about politics than he does about geology, which is sayin' summat... He learns everything he knows about politics from a right-wing criminal blogger, so he probably learns his geology from the Flat Earth Society...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 03:34 PM

We shouldn't laugh.. but that flat earth rocket scientist/spaceman...

He won't make that mistake again...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 06:03 PM

"Those who can, do; those who can't, teach.”
and to make up for their inadaquacies some feel the need to boast they are a scientist, botanist, biologist,educationalist, union activist.............(yawn,yawn)
Suffice it to say I was allowed the post-nominals for fellowship and chartered status. Recognition by one's peers and CPD is all that is required, and is acknowledged by the world at large.
Shaw's opinions, on both this and many other subjects, are only worthy of derision


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 06:15 PM

Words, words, words. Prove it! I don't believe you! You're a prize online anonymous bullshitter! You are absolutely NOTHING that you claim to be, as your "knowledgeable" posts abundantly reveal. You live in hope that no-one will understand what you whittle on about and that we'll all be befuddled by your cod-technical waffle, but you are well and truly sussed. Plenty of blokes like you infesting the internet. Laughable!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 01:59 AM

Well, what we know is that he’s an ‘expert’ in UK and US politics, an ‘expert’ in the internal organisation and workings of the European Union, an ‘expert’ in geology, an expert in virology, an ‘expert’ in epidemiology, a ‘farmer’ and, most significantly, an ex-squaddie and barrack-room lawyer.

In other words, he is a fabricated persona, here with the sole purpose of sowing disagreement and stifling genuine discussion and exchange of ideas..

IGNORE. THE. TROLL.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 02:21 AM

Oh, forgot ‘expert’ in Middle-East politics and affairs, and ‘expert’ in Israel/Palestine conflict.

Even more reason to ignore the bloody twonk.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 03:34 AM

Probably time this thread was out out of its misery. If that happens it's someone else's turn to start a new one!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 03:48 AM

It would be fine, Dave, if everybody would just IGNORE the bugger. But some don’t seem to have any self-control and they keep reacting to him - so the thread goes down the shitter.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 03:53 AM

I see the abbaccus is retiring from the opposition front bench. That should make room for several others. A shame really - She probably drove more labour supporters to the sensible tories than even magic grandad.
The wannabe replacements seem to be carrying on the magnum opus. They have not mastered the transmutation of base metal into gold, but the practise piece of making labour totally unelectable is proceeding very well.
I am looking forward to the day I can have a chlorinated chicken to go with my chlorinated salad, washed down with a glass of chlorinated water. The ban on imported american chicken is a prime example of EU protectiionism keeping prices high.

By the way shaw have you learnt to make a link yet? Rather a let down for someone constantly boasting about what a clever fellow they are.
I would have thought after nearly 6000 posturing posts you might have mastered the art of creating links. But by supplying links what you post would have to be factual, not whimsy. That would likely curb your troublemaking and constant arguing.(a win win for all we lesser mortals that do not possess a mighty ego such as yours!)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 04:31 AM

Second thoughts Dave, you're dead right.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 07:57 AM

i know a bit about some people on here and don't mind people knowing a bit about me. 64 yesterday, live in cumbria and work in the care sector, lefty, jags fan etc. eg i think dtg lives in skipton, steve ex-teacher in cornwall etc etc i don't know how folk interact with other people (my local, the swan is very well run, good beer etc but too many right wing, racist opinions around me for me to be fully comfortable. anyone like to share a bit about their local (or equivalent) and where they would like it to be - in my case the bell on walcot street, bath?

i'm intrigued really - where do turnips interact? and what real contacts do they have with folk?

take this as a 'are you a real person and not a machine exercise'


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 08:56 AM

Steve, 68, live in the sticks a few miles outside Bude, do all the cooking and get praise, 43 years wed, two grown-up kids, fiendishly interested in geology,* meteorology and mildly in astronomy but only good enough at maths to do biology, leftie, Labour Party member, play traditional music on the harmonica half-decently, bad back, curious about everything, enjoy life...

Have lived in Lancs, where I come from, still got the accent, then London including the East End, then near Epping Forest until we came here in 1986. Have worked in the East End, Walthamstow and Holsworthy (Devon), all in secondary schools teaching science. Attained a senior position as a team leader marking "A" level biology essay papers for the University of London. Oh, and on Radcliffe Parks...

*Good round here. Upper Carboniferous Bude formation (massive sandstones and thin shales), Crackington formation just down the road, all that lovely plutonic stuff on the Cornish moors and the regional metamorphism around their edges, slate around Delabole and Tintagel and on my roof, fantastic volcanics around Pentire with some super pillow lavas full of vesicles, multicoloured slates around Padstow and Daymer Bay, evidence of Variscan orogeny everywhere...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 08:59 AM

And Beethoven fanatic...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 09:00 AM

And Liverpool FC. Don't just say God, say Shankly...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 09:01 AM

i've got a camper van beethoven album....


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 09:08 AM

Ok.

Let's start with 'DMcG'. My full name is Dave McGlade (and not Dave NA Mcglade as one company thinks, nor Dave McGlad E* as the National Trust keeps calling me.) I use 'DMcG' because the first computer with user accounts I used only had four character user names, and that was (almost) mine - it ignored case, so strictly speaking it was DMCG. So the first occasion I used the Internet was with that user name and I have kept it ever since.

I don't really have a local, because I rarely drink. The pub I go to most often is after choir practice, and I have non-alcoholic drinks because I have to drive to get home. The choir is based in a place called Hamble-le-Rice, which is certainly up-market: several in the choir own substantial boats, for example. Hamble is that sort of place. This is a fairly formal choir, SATB style.

I live on the outskirts of Southampton, and have never owned a boat!

I haven't discussed Brexit at all with these people, so I can't tell you their views.

Then I am effectively choirmaster of a church choir. This is far less ambitious - splitting into male and female is about as complicated as we get. In this group we have spoken about Brexit sometimes, and I would say it is perhaps 10% leave, 15% remain, all the rest not prepared to say or otherwise get into it.

For the folk club I go to most often, it is almost universally remain, but there are three strong leave supporters.


I would consider myself centre-left, rather than strongly left. The distinction is, for example, I would not think nationalisation of the rail services desirable simply on the grounds of ideology, but could on the basis of economic assessments. I could live - reluctantly but tolerably - with a true One Nation Tory leadership, but not with one driven by a free market ideology (or should I say, like most people with ideologies, driven by it when it suits them but not when it doesn't. I don't see them applying the free market principles to wages for nurses or teachers for example, which would indicate the wages should rise until the vacancies are filled.)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 09:09 AM

I've got a field of turnips.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 09:15 AM

You ARE a fucking turnip.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 09:17 AM

The people on here whom I wish to know about me already do. The rest - fuggeddit. Saw too much crap when Iains’ BNP mates infiltrated the forum once before.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 09:56 AM

and are you an expert in that field, ian? are they your only friends or do you have a more varied and real existence than on the internet?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 10:08 AM

Ideal food for lambs are turnips. 250 -300gm/day weight increase. Gets them up to kill weight in a trice. .


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 10:37 AM

I suppose that when you stand in your field of turnips you're perfectly camouflaged.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 10:44 AM

Seeing as we are now self doxing...

My name is punkfolkrocker..

and to be honest I don't really like punk or folk music that much any more..

I've found too many people who still self identify and dress as punks or folkies
make me feel very wary...

I avoid human interaction as much as possible..

But I can put up with the mrs for a few hours a day,
and am polite to shop workers
and the post office and bank staff,
on the rare times I leave the sanctuary of my own home...

My ideal job would be masked vigilante like Green Arrow or Batman,
though, as I'm not a billionaire,
I'll just settle for mocking random right wing plonkers on the internet...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 10:54 AM

"My name is punkfolkrocker..

and to be honest I don't really like punk or folk music that much any more.."

What about rocks, like me?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 10:58 AM

btw.. if I sound a bit too asocial..

I still get traumatic flashbacks to the evening I got cornered in conversation
with a middle aged dungeons and dragons gamer and historical battles reenactor...

oh no.. i can feel the cold sweats and palpitations coming on again
just thinking about his beard...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 11:01 AM

Steve - nah.. broke a tooth on a stick of rock when I was little..

MY name is pfr and I am a Rocker..

though I do like a fair bit of Mod music as well...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 11:14 AM

I suppose that when you stand in your field of turnips you're perfectly camouflaged.
You assume the sheep have the same powers of discrimination as yourself.
Having never been taken for a turnip I must assume the sheep are brighter than mr shaw.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 11:27 AM

Shite joke for a gloomy Monday..

A man walked into a a 2nd hand book shop with a turnip
he hoped to barter for something good to read...
He selected some tatty paperbacks,
put them on the counter by the till,
then said to the shop owner........


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 11:28 AM

What a shame. It means you can't creep up on them from behind without being noticed...

"historical battles reenactor..."

Yeah, we used to get one of those twots once a year on a battle anniversary. He thought it was great to play the bloody spoons at full blast for the whole evening, until I told him to piss off. He didn't half get shirty but he never came again...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 11:37 AM

It has been on here many a time before so I don't mind repeating it. I'm Dave Polshaw. Yes, I live near Skipton now but am originally from Swinton near Manchester. Only 2 letters different and both with a Monday folk club :-) Recently retired computer prodder specialising in high availability. Mainly for or in close connection with Hewlett Packard and most recently for Morroisons. Half Polish and, at 67, far younger than that Shaw bloke :-)

Pretty centre left. I have a good few friends and acquaintances. Mainly from the folk world and mainly left and remainders. A few are from the right and leave factions but I never fall out with them about it mainly because although I disagree with them, they do not go out of their way to obnoxious like some of the twats on here.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Workingtonman
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 11:46 AM

yes, pfr i also changed my name as i hadn't lived in aberdeen for 11 years. and as i became famous as the workington man i thought......also i go to loads of folk festivals and spend my time trying to avoid folk music. the stuff i like - richard thompson, show of hands etc i've seen and enjoyed many times. and as for the self-indulgent, dreary unaccompanied stuff....anyway i go to folk festivals and seek out country, americana, blues and anything else i've not heard before. and beer, and old friends and lurchers and......thread rift, innit? sorry but i like that too


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 01:16 PM

Sorry, I had a full knee replacement last week, haven't checked in as often. Your wish is (finally) my command. Try again with a new one.


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This Thread Is Closed.


Mudcat time: 7 April 2:59 PM EDT

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