mudcat.org: Review: Lost threads
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3]


Review: Lost threads

Steve Gardham 13 Jan 20 - 11:08 AM
Steve Gardham 13 Jan 20 - 11:05 AM
Rain Dog 13 Jan 20 - 11:02 AM
Steve Gardham 13 Jan 20 - 11:00 AM
Vic Smith 13 Jan 20 - 10:56 AM
The Sandman 13 Jan 20 - 10:54 AM
Steve Gardham 13 Jan 20 - 10:51 AM
Nick 13 Jan 20 - 10:50 AM
Steve Gardham 13 Jan 20 - 10:44 AM
Nick 13 Jan 20 - 10:43 AM
Rain Dog 13 Jan 20 - 10:40 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Jan 20 - 10:39 AM
Steve Gardham 13 Jan 20 - 10:38 AM
Joe G 13 Jan 20 - 10:36 AM
Nick 13 Jan 20 - 10:31 AM
Steve Gardham 13 Jan 20 - 10:26 AM
John MacKenzie 13 Jan 20 - 10:20 AM
Steve Gardham 13 Jan 20 - 10:16 AM
Rain Dog 13 Jan 20 - 10:11 AM
Steve Gardham 13 Jan 20 - 10:10 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jan 20 - 10:03 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Jan 20 - 09:55 AM
Vic Smith 13 Jan 20 - 09:53 AM
Vic Smith 13 Jan 20 - 09:49 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jan 20 - 09:48 AM
Steve Gardham 13 Jan 20 - 09:44 AM
Steve Gardham 13 Jan 20 - 09:36 AM
Vic Smith 13 Jan 20 - 09:34 AM
Steve Gardham 13 Jan 20 - 09:25 AM
Rain Dog 13 Jan 20 - 09:22 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Jan 20 - 09:22 AM
Steve Gardham 13 Jan 20 - 09:18 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 13 Jan 20 - 08:59 AM
John MacKenzie 13 Jan 20 - 08:27 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Jan 20 - 08:19 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 13 Jan 20 - 07:47 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Jan 20 - 07:36 AM
John MacKenzie 13 Jan 20 - 07:24 AM
GUEST,Grishka 13 Jan 20 - 07:06 AM
Vic Smith 13 Jan 20 - 07:00 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jan 20 - 06:33 AM
GUEST,HiLo 13 Jan 20 - 06:25 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jan 20 - 06:23 AM
Rain Dog 13 Jan 20 - 06:15 AM
The Sandman 13 Jan 20 - 06:07 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jan 20 - 06:02 AM
The Sandman 13 Jan 20 - 05:57 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Jan 20 - 05:40 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jan 20 - 05:38 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 13 Jan 20 - 05:33 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:08 AM

Where were we? I've lost the thread.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:05 AM

When Joe does get to the thread can I suggest he alters the misleading title (see 2nd post) to 'Closed thread'. Even if this one gets closed at least it will then be accurate.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:02 AM

Nick posted "Or stick it on a thread called "Definitive Information about x's eating habits' and then noone has to go over it again and again and again."

Maybe you meant to say "no one has to regurgitate it again and again"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:00 AM

Good for you and Molly, Vic!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Vic Smith
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:56 AM

Steve Shaw wrote about Molly:-
She could be quite fearsome, and you didn't argue back!

Not half! I never had occasion to fall out with her - but I have been present when she did with others and it was not a pretty sight!
But she has a heart of gold and when she took a cause to her heart she was always totally whole-hearted. She was always there week after week at our folk club brimming with enthusiasm, often knitting those black and white striped jumpers for members for the 'smugglers' section of the Cliffe Bonfire Society to wear in their parades.
She and Howard would manage to fit in one 'freebie' piece of Web Design each year amongst the many they made in the running of their business. I was the beneficiary of these on a number of occasions:-
* She designed and managed a website for Rocket FM in Lewes and my folk and world music programmes were always given prominence in her management of the site.
* She took over, extended and extensively developed the website for The Copper Family.
* She totally redesigned our folk club website making it much more attractive and user friendly.
* When we organised the first British tour for the great Gambian kora jali Jali Sherrifo Conteh we invited her and over 100 others to a reception prior to his first concert. She was totally charmed by this amiable, very talented man and offered to redesign the website that we ran for him. She showed us how to set up a merchandising section of the large website where we could sell his CDs and also the batiks for another talented Gambian that we supported, Buba Drammeh, The money from the sales on that website all went with other money raised and earned to enable both Sherrifo and Buba to buy land and build their own compounds.

So let's hear it for Molly!

(Sorry about this thread drift but I have never really had the chance to praise her anywhere other than in person - and it is theraputic for me to write positive things rather being critical of the actions of others. It is much more in my nature to want to bring out the good things that happen.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:54 AM

for a moderator to suggest that nic jones stole his guitr arrangements, is libellous and still he has not apologised


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:51 AM

Too many Nicks, jims and Steves. I'll give meself a pseudonym....er 'Two Sheds Steve'.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Nick
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:50 AM

Sorry to interrupt the discussion about eating that noone gives a shit about. THERE is a classic example of the Mudcat equivalkent of Groundhog Day. FFFS move onwards rather going back to it. Or stick it on a thread called "Definitive Information about x's eating habits' and then noone has to go over it again and again and again.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:44 AM

:)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Nick
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:43 AM

(Not the Nick referred to above)

Here's a serious suggestion why not have a 'Deleted Posts' thread where all the deleted posts could be put? I think it might serve certain positive functions.

It would highlight who was being deleted
It would highlight what behaviours lead to deletion - the aggrieved/deleted party then would have the choice as to maintaining or changing their behaviour
It would allow others to judge whether it was justified or not.
It would also name and shame - and highlight whether it is biased or fair

And it would allow those who just love reading the disagreements to wallow in the joy of reading through pages and pages of abuse, trolling, purposeful misunderstanding, etc etc etc

AND PERHAPS

Then it could stay out of the threads and we could talk about music.

I don't post much (50 - 300 posts per year) compared with those who posts are measured in thousands.

Over the years I have met people through it, played music through it, been helped by and helped others (hopefully, I try), and had some very silly days posting rubbish and terrible puns and I thank Max and those who run it that it is here and keeps going.

There does seem to be a race too get back to long running arguments and antipathies that cross threads with alacrity and it does get in the way of a lot of the positive stuff that goes on here.

I think I may start a rather more positive thread with a positive message but thought I would put something here.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:40 AM

Steve Gardham posted "Needless to say he had to walk"

Not the plank I hope.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:39 AM

Walter's eating habits weer exactly what I was talking about as part of thee treatment meted out to him
If, in a discussion about our work with Travellers say, someone made the comment that I picked my nose, I would be somewhat pissed off - not because I found it insulting, but because it would be a diversion away from the important things we have done or the mistakes we might have made
Typical of this type of thing is the fact that it has been impossible to discuss the work we did with Ewan because every time the subject is brought up it immediately sinks under a barrage of name change, war record and political leanings
We loose a chance to debate ten years work on singing folk songs every time
When I suggested that we concentrate on the important aspects of Ewan's work on the last thread about him, not only was I accused of censorship (by a fellow Mudcatter I believed to be a friend) but that accusation was repeated by Joe and I was suspended for two weeks
I don't think Walter's eating habits are fit for public discussion - it would have mortified him and it angered me
It wouldn't surprise me if people started debating why he had TWO SHEDS He actually had three!!

If I over-reacted at the time I apologise - that happens too us all - my point remains, both about Walter's eating habits and Ewan's contribution to the theory of singing

Your comments go no way to explain or apologisee for your own behaviour Steve, yet you choose to single out mine as if your were innocent of all sin
We are as guilty as one another in these matters - laying the blame on others does not alter that one iota
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:38 AM

Nice analogy, Nick

Similar situation. I once volunteered on a community tug taking trips round the docks. One of the crew had been there a long time and acted as if he owned it to the extent that he was telling the managers to get off his boat. Needless to say he had to walk, but it was such a shame as he had a tremendous amount of knowledge to offer.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Joe G
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:36 AM

Yes the same tedious pattern Steve. It was notable on the 'Current State....' thread that discussion was more flowing and constructive during Jim's absences - even though I welcomed some of his contributions. There were disagreements and a few arguments but things soon got back on track.

Joe advised me he closed that thread down during the Christmas shut down. I didn't argue even though I felt there was still some mileage in it. In my view mods have the right to moderate as they see fit. If I was unhappy with the moderation of a site I would simply stop contributing and not complain to the world and his dog about it. That strikes me as egotistic


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Nick
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:31 AM

It is a little like people who have rented a property for a very long time being surprised when they find that they don't own it and that the person who owns it ultimately makes the rules and has the choices.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:26 AM

Morning, Joe!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:20 AM

About 7:30 AM in SF, won't be long now.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:16 AM

Anyone see a pattern emerging? You can find the same pattern on all the other threads.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:11 AM

JC "Still nobody has refered to how Walter has been treated by the mods and trolss"

In the WP thread, Nick Dow posted "I'm told Walter's favourite tea was a fried egg Brown bread and butter and vinegar. Brings tears to the stomach."

JC first post to the WP thread "Oh - and he ate like a pig
You should know better Nick, with your background"

No one had mentioned the word pig. Nick was quoting from the YouTube film which had been mentioned earlier in the thread. That film was "A documentary made by Edge TV for the Walter Pardon Memorial concert at The Atrium, North Walsham, early 2014."

The Sandman then pointed out to JC that he didn't think Nick or anyone else had said that WP ate like a pig.

Later the same day JC posted "And not one of you have had the good grace to even comment
You all out to be ashamed of yourselves"

On the 7.11.19 The Sandman posted "Why should i be ashamed of mentioning walters fondness for bananas, the human touch, it makes no difference to my respect for his repertoire. Harry Cox was an animal lover,they were people not just singers"

JC came back and said: ""Why should i be ashamed of mentioning walters fondness for bananas"
Why the **** should anyone be so ***** rude to comment on his eating habits especially ion these terms
"I'm told Walter's favourite tea was a fried egg Brown bread and butter and vinegar. Brings tears to the stomach."
Christ knows where that came from anyway - it's pure nasty invention and totally unnecessary - and you know it
I wonder how Nick would react to travellers being described in such a degrading way - or do I !!"

????


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:10 AM

>>>>>>Your "common sense" suggests a bias or a suggestion I am telling lies<<<<<<
And therein is encapsulated the problem as I see it.

>>>>>>You can and have been as abusive as anybody here<<<<<<<
Admitted, but way back when I first came across, what seemed to me at the time your preposterous position. I was sarcastic and dismissive and I apologised profusely both on the forum and privately by email.
Now point to any of my abuse to you in the last 3 years please.

>>>>>contention can be a positive thing if it is handled correctly<<<<<
Absolutely agree but you are not doing that.

>>>>> a discussion beteween nodding dogs<<<<<< Nobody is asking for that or expects it.

>>>>>>>>>It is not for you to criticise how anybody choosed to make their point<<<<< I thought that's what we were all doing???


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:03 AM

I didn't know that Molly has been ill too, Vic. She won't remember me, but regards to her anyway. When I think back, I got told off a lot less by Molly than by Jeremy. She could be quite fearsome, and you didn't argue back!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 09:55 AM

"bullying and insulting the mods is not going to get you anywhere,"
Describing their behaviour is harsdly "bullying and insulting" anybody Steve, it's simple defending yourself
Ifsomeone was to suggest you were suffering from dementia would you sit on your hands because it came from a mod ?
I should hope not
If we are regarded as "old men" and treated like "children" there is no future for this forum
Your "common sense" suggests a bias or a suggestion I am telling lies (which is why I didn't include you on my list when I circulated my protest to Joe
Say so if that's what you think
You have chosen your side obviously - there shouldn't have to be sides
You can and have been as abusive as anybody here as I have pointed out on the Fakelore thread (without my having named you) - first look to thyself (teh Bard)
As far as repetition goes, that happens in every argument when those arguments are ignored - be it in a pub, a political debate or a discussion forum - contention can be a positive thing if it is handled correctly
There's nothing more offputtingly boring than a discussion beteween nodding dogs
It is not for you to criticise how anybody choosed to make their point


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Vic Smith
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 09:53 AM

the sadly-demised Gaughan forum.
That site only ended with the aging and ill-health of Molly, the webmaster, fellow fan of DG, good friend and near-neighbour.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Vic Smith
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 09:49 AM

I get weary of the same stuff being repeated ad-nauseam on thread after thread.
I'm just glad that I have never, ever heard any dire squib about congregational flatulation.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 09:48 AM

"...although JC thinks the sun shines out of his hero's bottom..."

And you think that helps?

I've never much of a MacColl fan myself. I appreciate his place in our music and some of his songs are sublime. Unlike Jim, I never knew the man in person, was never his friend and never worked with him. What I know of him, that he could be a troubled and troublesome man, that he was allegedly dictatorial at times, has to be full of caveats because everything I think I know is second- or third-hand. Now I could come on here, watching Jim out of the corner of my evil eye, gleefully anticipating a response and attack MacColl and all the stuff Jim says about him, and Jim to boot. I could tell Jim that he's daft because he thinks the sun shines out of his hero's bottom, like you've just done. Well wouldn't that just get us everywhere. Jim is highly opinionated on matters that he is entitled, with his intimate knowledge, to be highly opinionated about. And if he thinks you're wrong he'll tell you so. If you insulted him in your attack, he might just insult you back. It's a very unhappy scenario, is that. So why do you do it? I'm not jealous of Jim's knowledge. I could probably lose him on Mozart and Beethoven but I'm damn sure that wouldn't make him jealous. I'm attacked here by one particular blithering jealous idiot here because I'm a retired classroom science teacher. Wow.

I've only ever seen one mod operating on TheSession website and on the sadly-demised Gaughan forum. They rule(d) with a firm grip. If you sounded mean-spirited you'd get the famous "love letter." Good temper and positive demeanour demanded at all times. That sets the ethos that is so lamentably lacking at times here. If you trolled you were bloody well given the boot, for a week, a month, a year or forever. No commentary allowed. You were The Disappeared. I'd bet my last shirt that those mods have/had a lot less work to do than our overworked lot.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 09:44 AM

As a non-academic I have learnt a lot from Mudcat and don't regret my membership even though I've not been here as long as some. I welcome criticism and opposed views when well reasoned or backed up with facts, but like Vic I get weary of the same stuff being repeated ad-nauseam on thread after thread.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 09:36 AM

A piece of obvious advice....bullying and insulting the mods is not going to get you anywhere, except a pat on the back from the trolls!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Vic Smith
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 09:34 AM

Steve Gardham -
Unfortunately I know of many people who have stopped contributing here because of the extreme behaviour sometimes exhibited.
I could name quite a few as well as I'm sure others here can. This is sad because one of the strengths of Mudcat in the past has been the breadth and variety of opinion expressed. Look through the list of posters for the more contentious threads and see how they are dominated by the few - often making repetitious points as though this will wear down the opinions of others.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 09:25 AM

There voices of common sense here who are being ignored already, Vic Smith, Jim Bainbridge, HiLo, Rain Dog...Anyone else like to chip in, Joe?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 09:22 AM

"The problem really arises when mods look down on people they work for - us"

and

"the difference of course is tat we are not give the chance of who moderates us"

I imagine that in the first place,the mods work for the person who runs the site, and in the second place, for the majority of people who post here.

We all have the chance to decide who moderates us. It is just a matter of setting up a site of our own.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 09:22 AM

"but never suffered a hint of racism from either side of the Irish Sea- wonder why HE would?"
Neither have I off line Jim - why would I, I'm from Irish stock ?
I was referring to the racism from English trolls here on Mudcat - "plastic Paddies", Bogtrotter" etc
Several Irish friends stopped posting because of such behaviour some time ago
If the mods aren't going to deal with who are responsible (he refuses to and blames the victims) then we have to be allowed to in our own way otherwise it gets the forum a bad name
Ignoring them and being threatened with suspension if we do give them a free hand to continue - as they do
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 09:18 AM

The WP thread was halted because of the abuse of people who don't like opinions that counter theirs and turn to abuse, troll-fashion. It is a gross lie to state that any of the mods have anything against WP.

Unfortunately I know of many people who have stopped contributing here because of the extreme behaviour sometimes exhibited.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 08:59 AM

It wasn't 'criticism' Jim C, it was abuse, and sadly I responded to it before I knew what I was dealing with.
I don't have any 'personal superstar' and although JC thinks the sun shines out of his hero's bottom, I am not going into all that again....
re Brits in Ireland, I lived happily there for 20 years off and on, but never suffered a hint of racism from either side of the Irish Sea- wonder why HE would?
He's got me going again, sorry, back to the iniquities of the mods, which is a mystery to me....
Bugger this Brendan, this came from Ireland as well- just off to put the covers back on the haybales again...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 08:27 AM

He doesn't really like Brits Jim ;)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 08:19 AM

Can I just sort things ourt as far as my behaviour
I never personally insult people but I quite often respond badly when people insult me - which has become commonplace, from comments about my age to racist remarks because of where I live (I'm a Brit living in Ireland)
Jim B's behaviour when I criticised his own personal superstat were as insulting as they come so if I insulted him, I gave as good as a got from him
Enough

The problem really arises when mods look down on people they work for - us
Complaints on trolls have met eith personal abiuse ranging from "you lot are worse than they are" to one claiming I am suffering from dementia - anybody who uses that dreadful affliction as an insult is beneath contempt in my book
Members here are persistently treated like children - one posted to me last week that "I am sorry I have to treat "old men" like children
That's's no way for anybody to act
Saying we can't criticise the mods is like saying we can't criticise our MPs when they are elected - the difference of course is tat we are not give the chance of who moderates us
The jonb of mods used to be to keep us from going for each other
Now they decide what we can discuss (as with Walter Pardon) and how long we can discuss subjects
A numbner of threads have been closed because a mod has decided we have debated it has been debated enough - that is for us to decide, surely
I have little doubt this discussion will disappear shortly - somethibng to do with the Transatlantic timeline that it hasn't already

Still nobody has refered to how Walter has been treated by the mods and trolss
(Can I hastily add that I am not referring to all the mods - just one)
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 07:47 AM

No plans to read the WP thread, Dick, sounds like pretty vile comments involved... I was simply trying to help reduce provocation & abuse on the site.
Mudcat is unusual in that it does not require membership & logins etc and it would be sad if that changed just to deter 'trolls'.

JC isn't the only one guilty of this, of course and it seems he was the victim of it this time?
You personally, Steve Shaw may have managed a civil exchange with JC but others (like me) are less able, or willing to try & counter his intolerance- I respect JC's long history in the music, but I totally disagree with his views on the 'tradition'.
He has never given any indication of seeing any merit in my opinion- in fact the reverse, hence my absence from recent threads in which he posts. Please regard that as a deliberate attempt to reduce friction, but it's sad, don't you think?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 07:36 AM

"Mudcat is the leading board for folk music discussion on the internet "
The dispicable way that Walter has been treated here has put that at risk - the cracks are already beginning to appear with a leading researcher walking away in disgust and stating he will never open this forum again because of how Walter was allowed to be treated
We always had a convention that no mater squabbled among ourselves, we treated the older source singers with respect and sensitivity because they were not part of what we made
That's been kicked into touch by a troll, this forum with the help of a moderator who refuses to intervene to stop her
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 07:24 AM

More deletions would be good. By that I mean deletion of posts which upset the majority, and not just the minority, or just the head mod.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 07:06 AM

If the vibes are wrong, that's no excuse for the rest of the rhythm group to goof.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Vic Smith
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 07:00 AM

Mudcat is the leading board for folk music discussion on the internet and the contributors represent a wide range of interests and backgrounds of those interest in 'folk song' (whatever that is for there seems to be about many different opinions on what this is as there are contributors; certainly the Brits and the Americans view it differently).
It is far from perfect. To my mind it is too tolerant of a variety of political extremists as I found to my cost when the 'attack dogs' of the BNP were infiltrating the board with character asassination and identity theft. However, I had the choice of leaving or continuing in the hope that things would improve. Well they have, but I was never under any illusion that Mudcat was a democracy and that I could change the basic policy. Max and Joe and their other helpers have devised a consistant way of running Mudcat which is quite discernable after a few visits reading a variety of posts. Clearly, they work hard for what appears to be very little reward. Personally, I am very thankful for the work they do in spite of the apparent hard time that some members give them.
The alternative would be for the strong dissenters to leave, perhaps combine their talents and set up a rival board that ran in the way that they saw fit - but I know from being a webmaster of various smaller folk music sites that this is both expensive and time consuming.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 06:33 AM

"Look who's here" - that remark on its own makes you part of the problem. Also, I'm not sure how you know who "runs to the mods," how often, and who doesn't...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 06:25 AM

The problem is not trolls, it is bullies, those who cannot tolerate people who disagree with them. These bullies cannot deal with people who clearly know more than some of them do, so they name call, they run to the mods, and they bully. Then when threads are closed, guess what, they blame “trolls”.    The fact that this thread even exists is proof of that.....and look who is here.

,


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 06:23 AM

All too often the disagreement is spiced with attack. He who strikes the first blow is squarely the one to blame for setting the wrong vibe, Rain Dog. That's who you should be castigating, not their targets. And yes, they're good at spotting the targets. If they're not dealt with in summary fashion the rot sets in.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 06:15 AM

"provocation such as describing walter pardon as an industry, is beyond the pale"

Really? Beyond the pale?

Some of you are just so keen to be provoked. Some of you who are provoked do drive others away because of your behaviour. So many threads tend to have an 'unpleasant' feel to them. It does appear at times that a small number of you just enjoy arguing the toss and trying to drive out those people you do not agree with.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 06:07 AM

The same moderator said that nic jones had nicked stolen the guitar arrngement of canadeio, another example of ignorance and slipshod research.Nic had a very bad car accident and was a loss to the uk folk revival to claim he stole the guitar arrngement is legally libellous.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 06:02 AM

Jim B, I respect your point of view, but let me just say as a similarly combative (at times) contributor here that Jim and I have often disagreed with each other over both substance and perspective, and express those differences openly and publicly, but you will not find a single instance down the years of he and I being less than civil to each other. I highly respect his knowledge and contributions and perhaps that's why I don't wish to destroy the mutual trust by indulging in attack-dog behaviour of the kind we currently see from Iains and one or two other lesser lights. Like Joe Offer, I've wished on occasion that Jim would step back from responding to the jealous idiots who provoke us. But I'm not going along with the victim-blaming I'm afraid. On every other forum I've contributed to, trolls are dealt with in a very straightforward way, via warnings and deletions then via expulsion. None of your protracted nonsense. It works. Ask Jeremy, Molly and Dale Wisely (with all of whom I've had many a spat). I don't want or expect democracy but equally I don't want trolls with free rein to be able to make their targets into culprits. That's very debilitating and it gives the mods ten times as much work to do.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 05:57 AM

i whole heartedl;y support Jim Carroll , for a troll to be allowed to describe Walter Pardon as an industry is a disgrace and a provocation, joe offer a so called mod, sent me a private message calling me an arsehole, this forum is run in an amateurish fashion, by somebody who allows provoocative trolling.
Jim Bainbridge, i suggest you read the thread before you comment on it provocation such as describing walter pardon as an industry, is beyond the pale


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 05:40 AM

I have no intention of discussing my reputation - I'm far nore covcerned with how Walter Pardon has been treated
I'm sorry you didn't feel it worthy of comment
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 05:38 AM

I've frequently discussed trolling behaviour with this moderator, and though he generally agrees about the trolling we rarely see eye-to-eye on what to do about it. The present situation with regard to the refusal to allow discussion of one of the mighty figures in folk song is highly regrettable, arbitrary and, in my opinion, outrageous. The trolling, which Joe agrees was trolling, by a contributor with verbal diarrhoea could have be nipped in the bud by simply deleting promptly the long-winded diatribes (there's nothing more annoying than losing a message you've spent ages composing...). As I've always said, it's my prerogative to express an opinion but not to demand stuff. My quick way of saying it is that it's not my gig. And, equally regrettably, I've also heard the dementia "diagnosis" in a PM from said moderator. PMs are a great way of relieving frustrations via being able to safely bad-mouth people. It's surely not the role of a moderator, though, to comment privately on what he perceives, in his unqualified opinion, to be an adverse mental condition of someone he doesn't like.

Just my opinion.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Review: Lost threads
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 05:33 AM

Jim C, I think the vast majority of people with any knowledge of the peoples' music have nothing but respect for your knowledge and your contribution to the tradition over many years.
You have a valid view of what the music is about and your memories of some of the stalwarts are often very informative.

However we all have faults, even your heroes, but as an irregular contributor to Mudcat, I've noticed that you have repeatedly responded to any criticism or disagreement with your often trenchant views in a very abrasive and provocative manner.

   In the past I have occasionally responded in a similar manner, but exchanging insults & name calling goes nowhere! I have no particular views about Walter Pardon, and didn't follow the closed thread, but I have developed an approach to the music over 56 years which you don't much like, and surely am entitled to that?

   I've been disinclined to respond to some of your posts recently because I know it'll be counterproductive-others may have similar reservations, and I'd hope that your anatagonists would then respond positively to a more tolerant approach.

I think it would be good if you could just accept that other people are entitled to their own views and maybe THIS thread will not be closed down?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...


This Thread Is Closed.


Mudcat time: 21 February 8:26 AM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.