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Types of folk music you like or dislike

Dave the Gnome 07 Jan 20 - 02:54 AM
Raggytash 07 Jan 20 - 05:42 AM
Johnny J 07 Jan 20 - 05:51 AM
DMcG 07 Jan 20 - 06:27 AM
gillymor 07 Jan 20 - 07:19 AM
gillymor 07 Jan 20 - 07:32 AM
Richard Mellish 07 Jan 20 - 07:56 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Jan 20 - 08:07 AM
Howard Jones 07 Jan 20 - 08:20 AM
Daniel Kelly 07 Jan 20 - 08:29 AM
Steve Gardham 07 Jan 20 - 08:30 AM
GUEST,Pseudonymous 07 Jan 20 - 09:04 AM
GUEST,Pseudonymous 07 Jan 20 - 09:05 AM
Mo the caller 07 Jan 20 - 09:16 AM
gillymor 07 Jan 20 - 09:19 AM
Rain Dog 07 Jan 20 - 09:29 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 07 Jan 20 - 09:33 AM
John MacKenzie 07 Jan 20 - 09:36 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Jan 20 - 09:45 AM
GUEST,Jack Campin 07 Jan 20 - 09:56 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Jan 20 - 10:38 AM
GUEST,HiLo 07 Jan 20 - 10:43 AM
Vic Smith 07 Jan 20 - 11:10 AM
John MacKenzie 07 Jan 20 - 11:21 AM
GUEST,Pseudonymous 07 Jan 20 - 11:22 AM
The Sandman 07 Jan 20 - 11:38 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Jan 20 - 11:44 AM
GUEST,HiLo 07 Jan 20 - 12:33 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Jan 20 - 12:35 PM
The Sandman 07 Jan 20 - 12:36 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Jan 20 - 12:39 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Jan 20 - 12:47 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Jan 20 - 12:50 PM
GUEST,toubabdoc (David Levine) 07 Jan 20 - 01:02 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Jan 20 - 01:08 PM
GUEST,Jack Campin 07 Jan 20 - 01:16 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Jan 20 - 01:24 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 07 Jan 20 - 01:54 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 07 Jan 20 - 01:55 PM
GUEST 07 Jan 20 - 02:21 PM
GUEST,Pseudonymous 07 Jan 20 - 02:46 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Jan 20 - 02:54 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Jan 20 - 03:11 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Jan 20 - 03:12 PM
Mrrzy 07 Jan 20 - 03:23 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Jan 20 - 03:25 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Jan 20 - 03:28 PM
Steve Gardham 07 Jan 20 - 03:56 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Jan 20 - 04:02 PM
meself 07 Jan 20 - 04:46 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Jan 20 - 05:02 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Jan 20 - 06:16 PM
Joe Offer 07 Jan 20 - 06:18 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Jan 20 - 07:14 PM
Dave the Gnome 08 Jan 20 - 02:32 AM
DMcG 08 Jan 20 - 03:25 AM
GUEST,Observer 08 Jan 20 - 04:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Jan 20 - 05:06 AM
Mrrzy 08 Jan 20 - 07:26 AM
The Sandman 08 Jan 20 - 07:26 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Jan 20 - 08:03 AM
Joe Offer 08 Jan 20 - 09:33 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Jan 20 - 09:41 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Jan 20 - 11:06 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Jan 20 - 11:12 AM
Nick 08 Jan 20 - 11:58 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Jan 20 - 12:00 PM
meself 08 Jan 20 - 12:10 PM
Dave the Gnome 08 Jan 20 - 01:06 PM
Joe G 08 Jan 20 - 05:56 PM
gillymor 08 Jan 20 - 06:20 PM
gillymor 08 Jan 20 - 06:21 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Jan 20 - 06:28 PM
gillymor 08 Jan 20 - 07:00 PM
leeneia 10 Jan 20 - 11:06 AM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jan 20 - 01:07 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Jan 20 - 01:11 PM
Nick 12 Jan 20 - 03:37 PM
Steve Gardham 12 Jan 20 - 05:06 PM
RTim 12 Jan 20 - 06:48 PM
GUEST 12 Jan 20 - 07:04 PM
Joe G 12 Jan 20 - 08:14 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Jan 20 - 08:57 PM
Joe G 13 Jan 20 - 01:26 PM
Dave the Gnome 13 Jan 20 - 01:34 PM
Joe G 13 Jan 20 - 02:04 PM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jan 20 - 03:32 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jan 20 - 04:07 AM
Joe G 14 Jan 20 - 04:34 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Jan 20 - 06:18 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Jan 20 - 06:42 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jan 20 - 10:20 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jan 20 - 10:49 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Jan 20 - 09:20 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Jan 20 - 10:03 PM
Karen Impola 14 Jan 20 - 10:45 PM
Steve Gardham 15 Jan 20 - 03:47 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Jan 20 - 03:56 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Jan 20 - 04:38 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Jan 20 - 04:41 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Jan 20 - 05:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Jan 20 - 06:23 AM
GUEST,Booden Gad 15 Jan 20 - 06:49 AM
GUEST,crumbly 15 Jan 20 - 09:20 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Jan 20 - 11:42 AM
Joe G 15 Jan 20 - 01:08 PM
GUEST,crumbly 15 Jan 20 - 01:13 PM
GUEST,Booden Gad 15 Jan 20 - 01:49 PM
Joe G 15 Jan 20 - 01:57 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jan 20 - 04:44 PM
Joe G 15 Jan 20 - 04:47 PM
Steve Gardham 15 Jan 20 - 04:52 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jan 20 - 06:58 PM
GUEST,kenny 16 Jan 20 - 04:54 AM
GUEST,crumbly 16 Jan 20 - 05:17 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 Jan 20 - 09:15 AM
Joe G 16 Jan 20 - 11:16 AM
GUEST,crumbly 16 Jan 20 - 12:36 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Jan 20 - 12:51 PM
Steve Gardham 16 Jan 20 - 03:08 PM
Steve Gardham 16 Jan 20 - 03:23 PM
GUEST 17 Jan 20 - 10:57 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 19 Jan 20 - 08:49 AM
Steve Shaw 19 Jan 20 - 09:13 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 19 Jan 20 - 09:30 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 19 Jan 20 - 09:39 AM
GUEST,crumbly 19 Jan 20 - 11:38 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 19 Jan 20 - 11:54 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 19 Jan 20 - 01:11 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 19 Jan 20 - 01:16 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Jan 20 - 07:10 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 20 Jan 20 - 02:34 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Jan 20 - 09:41 PM
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Subject: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 02:54 AM

On another thread we were discussing source singers. Rather than clutter up that thread with these questions, here they are!

Do you like and listen to recordings of the source singers?I
Do you prefer revival and present day singers?
Do you like songs accompanied or unaccompanied?
Do you like traditional, contemporary or both?
What about electric folk?
Dance music, social or ritual?

I'm sure many more will come up over the course of the discussion but please do not turn this into another what is folk music thread! I'll kick off.

I have listened to quite a lot of source singers and even seen one perform. I think we can get a lot from them and they have input a lot into the folk world we see today but I find some of the material not to my taste.

I enjoy most revival singers a lot more easily. I'm not sure why this is. Maybe because they have updated (the folk process!) the songs to suit today's ear? This could also explain changing trends in any genre.

I do enjoy unaccompanied song when it is well done. I do prefer, in the main, accompanied or harmony performances though. This is possibly because I like the music more than the lyrics. I'm not greatly into poetry either.

I am not concerned if the song was written yesterday or a thousand years ago as long as it is good music!

I love electric folk and other derivations such as adding brass like Bellowhead or Brass Monkey did.

My favourite, saved till last of course :-), is dance music. Both social and ritual. I must add though that ritual dance music, for me, is best accompanied by ritual dance :-)

Ok. Enough from me for now. Over to you...


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 05:42 AM

I have found that most "source singers" I have either seen or listen to tend to be a tad tedious and stodgy, not natural entertainers so I moved away from them many years ago.

I was fortunate to be living in Manchester in the late 60's, early 70's when the folk scene there seemed to be thriving with a choice of various clubs every night of the week with a vast array of great performers across a wide spectrum of what I consider to be folk music. From Mary Asquith and Tom Yates, through Marie Little, Rosie Hardman, Ted Edwards, Mike Harding, The Beggarmen, Jolly Jack, The Oldham Tinkers, Planxty and countless others. There was, on reflection, a fair number of below par acts too.

I really enjoy unaccompanied song, especially when sung in harmony, words matter a lot to me. Like Dave I care not if the song was "written yesterday or a thousand years ago"

Not really a great lover of electronic folk, it tends to distract from the words or make them difficult to decipher, but like Dave a touch of Brass instrumentation is a joy, must be my Northern roots.

Dance is really a closed book to me, I've got two left feet, both on a right leg.

I have to say that I find performers of today tend to be far better musicians than they were "back in my day", they tend (in my experience) to have a better understanding of where the music came from and they tend to be far better singers.

In fact the standards of today are far higher (again in my opinion) than they were a few decades ago.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Johnny J
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 05:51 AM

I like and dislike all types.
:-)


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 06:27 AM

I enjoy source singers, and have a lot of the 'Voice of the People' CDs, but in a way I can't really explain, I enjoy it differently to most revivalist singers. I particularly like unaccompanied harmony, whether it is The Young Tradition or The Flying Pickets, or Bob and Ron Copper.

I gave a talk a few years back on the Hammond brothers collecting traditional music from sources and pointed out that some of the songs they collected as traditional were music hall 'hits' of around about the same age then as Queen's Fat-Bottomed Girls was to us. It is easy to be too precious about these things (IMO, naturally)

About the only genre I don't really get on with is blues. I can enjoy it for about 15 minutes, then just get bored.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 07:19 AM

I like both kinds of music, Country and Western.

Seriously though, I don't use any criteria that I'm consciously aware of to evaluate songs, I either like them or I don't or I grow to like them (as long as they're not from barbershop quartets) but here are my answers:

How do you define "source singers"?
yes
accompanied
both
some
dance music and it depends on what you mean by "social or ritual".


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 07:32 AM

replace "consciously aware" with either conscious or aware.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 07:56 AM

> Do you like and listen to recordings of the source singers?
Yes.

> Do you prefer revival and present day singers?
Sometimes. I prefer a good revival singer to a source singer who was well past his/her prime, but I can still enjoy the source singer in a different way.

> Do you like songs accompanied or unaccompanied?
No preference if the accompaniment is exactly that, but I hate "accompaniment" that smothers the words. I also hate an instrumental introduction that lasts for more than a few bars, especially if it's not even the proper tune but just noodling.

> Do you like traditional, contemporary or both?
Both, but it depends on the song, and a lot of contemporary material does nothing for me (and likewise some traditional, especially if I've heard a particular song too often).

> What about electric folk?
Tolerable if it neither smothers the words nor wastes time, but that is very rare.

> Dance music, social or ritual?
Yes. Used to play for a morris side, still participate in sessions occasionally, and I do dance (general international and especially Swedish).

One more preference: I am quite happy to join in choruses, but I object to the notion of a "chorus song" that seems to exist mainly for the sake of the chorus; one of my pet hates is a performer's starting out by "teaching" the chorus before starting the song proper; and another pet hate is adding an extra chorus at the end.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 08:07 AM

Hi gillymor

A source singer is one who learned traditional songs in their original context. Such as Walter Pardon, Fred Jorden or the Copper family. I think the term came about because they were the source for a lot of the collections that revival artists now use. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong :-)

Social is ceilidh or barn dancing - Socialy! Ritual is such dances as Morris, Rapper, Molly etc.

Hope this helps.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Howard Jones
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 08:20 AM

Some of all of those.

In my view, the revival style has evolved to be something quite different from the traditional style, and has probably been largely influenced by other factors from outside the original tradition. Most obviously, the revival usually features accompaniment. In the early days of folk clubs quite a number of source singers appeared there and probably had some influence on the revival singers, but in most cases (and certainly my own) revival singers developed their style by listening to other revival singers. Folk music as performed on the folk scene is usually very different from how it was originally performed.

I do listen to source singers, but often to be informed rather than to be entertained. It can certainly be an acquired taste (the same can be said about opera or jazz) but it repays a bit of effort. Even so, I find a little goes a long way.

However it must be remembered that source singers don't always come across as well on record as in real life. It can be difficult to recreate the energy which comes naturally when performing to an audience, and simply having a mic in front of you can be inhibiting. In most cases the recordings were intended as a permanent record rather than to be released for entertainment, and they may have been made on sub-optimal equipment and in sub-optimal conditions. I am fortunate to have been able to listen to a number of traditional singers when they were still alive, and in most cases that was a very different experience from listening to recordings of them.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Daniel Kelly
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 08:29 AM

The concert that Joe Heaney did in Australia, recorded by Warren Fahey and up on his website is incredible.

On the other hand, listening to the interviews that 'collectors' did with Joe is just terrible, because you can hear that they just don't 'get' what Joe is trying to explain to them.

I think it may be because unless you hear the songs through the eyes and ears of someone raised in Connacht, listening around the peat fire in the evening, the songs don't speak to you.

I can listen to Joe sing for hours.

I cannot listen to orchestra backed opera singers with affected accents singing the peoples music of Ireland.

Also a plug for Song of Granite, a fantastic movie about source singers in Ireland and Joe's life.


https://www.warrenfahey.com.au/joe-heaney/


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 08:30 AM

I like all of it but not for the same reasons.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:04 AM

I've enjoyed many on this list: Planxty, Mike Harding, Bellowhead, Oyster Band (have on vinyl somewhere) also I like instrumental material eg Katherine Tickell, Aly Bain and Phil Cunningham, 'folk guitar' eg when v young I saw and liked Bert Jansch (who reached a young me in the way a source singer could never have done, same for Fairport and Steeleye Span). I fully admit to enjoying a good go of Wild Rover with table banging, it is fun and a social event and anybody who looks down on this is possibly what they call up themselves as far as I am concerned (though who am I to talk). I have enjoyed and played with Morris (melodeon, Oyster Girl, Staten Island, British Grenadiers etc) but it was the fun of dressing up and the rhythms of the clogs as much as anything else. Not much for the hanky waving stuff. Also some Cajun music in the past.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:05 AM

I would have loved to get some deeper understanding of some sort of Indian music but it doesn't look as if I ever shall now. The sounds and melodies are entrancing.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Mo the caller
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:16 AM

"Folk music as performed on the folk scene is usually very different from how it was originally performed."
Howard is probably right there, certainly that is true about dance. The way the dances of Jane Austen's day were performed back then / when they were first revival (only yesterday, or nearly 100 years ago depending on your viewpoint) / now at clubs full of pensioners / now at 'zesty' clubs are all very different, and a lot of people think the way they first learnt is the 'right' way.

My dislikes are mucked up tunes, but I like interesting arrangements (one man's meat...). I don't like singer-songwriters with guitars droning on in sessions. But there are exceptions. Hate guitarists who cant keep their fingers off the strings but noodle all the time. It annoys me when singers give the whole story away in the introduction - why bother singing it.
Likes - all the rest. Traditional singers and musicians like Martin Carthy and Alistair Anderson (or do I mean 'revival').


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:19 AM

Thanks for the info, Dave.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Rain Dog
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:29 AM

They sing the introduction? :)


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:33 AM

Pseud,

Re your posting at 09.05

You might like to check out this site: http://www.sarangi.net/

Lots of info and videos of the real thing.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:36 AM

Define folk music?


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:45 AM

John - bugger off :-P


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:56 AM

There's a lot of stuff labelled "folk music" which I don't exactly dislike but just zone out with. Almost any guitar-accompanied solo singing unless I already know the text well - I can hardly ever follow the words for any accompanied song of any genre, so it makes no difference to me whether a guy with a guitar is singing in English or Albanian.

One exception being Jean Redpath's collaboration with Serge Hovey, about the only accompanied Scottish song I can see any point in.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 10:38 AM

Top of the heap for me are traditional tunes of Ireland, Northumberland and Scotland (in that order). I can't sing but I love singing. If you sing down your nose I'm going for a wee. Singer-guitarists had better be bloody good guitarists and they should leave the harmonica rack at home. I adore Nic Jones. Over-embellished accompaniment and slick arrangements are just showing off. I like some Fairport and Steeleye but not much of it. I thought that Sandy Denny was wonderful. I'm a bit of a Shirley Collins completist for reasons I've never been able to understand. If you haven't got No Roses you haven't lived. No Watersons for me, thanks, or any of that Spiers/Boden racket. On the whole I dislike groups, especially the slick modern young bucks, but there's a special place in my heart for Planxty, the Bothies, Altan (seen 'em three times) and De Dannan. And Patrick Street, consummate musicians all. I can hear meself clapping on their live album. And Luke Kelly is absolute numero uno. I confess to listening and singing along to mucho Christy in the car. Seen Christy live four times. I saw loads of really good live acts at the Tree Inn Folk Club before its demise. House Band, Andy Irvine, Roy Bailey, Martin Carthy, Liam O'Flynn, Wizz Jones, Vin Garbutt, Wood/Cutting (superb), Davy Steele, Dick Gaughan, John Kirkpatrick, Jez Lowe and the Bad Pennies, Pauline Cato and Tom McConville (they were at the Garland Ox in Bodmin), Show of Hands, Noel Murphy (begod that man could sink pints), and a lot more that I feel I'm insulting by leaving them out due to forgetfulness. Oh, Ron Kavana and Friends, the ottimo. The nub is that I enjoyed all of 'em because I saw them live. I've always found something a bit odd about listening to traditional music on CDs, though I still do it, not so much these days, and there's nothing like doing it yourself. As for the old timers/source singers, well it has to be recordings only, which can be a drawback. Listening to old taped stuff can't convey what it must have been like to be there in the pub or the kitchen hearing them doing their stuff. But we can learn a lot about our heritage from them. In fact, if we no longer listen to them I'm not sure we can understand what our heritage is.

And no bloody award ceremonies or competitions, please!


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 10:43 AM

I like most kinds of music, folk and otherwise. My tastes in folk covers a wide variety of styles..from Frankie Armstrong to Show of Hands...I don't know if they could be called "source" singers, but I do like the Watersons, Frank Profit , Hedy West and so on.
The kind I don't like are the overly preachy ones..Phil Ochs comes to mind. I also listen to a lot of instrumental folk, Nigel Eaton, Martin Simpson, Katherine Tickell.
I have never understood the desire to pigeon hole music or the insistence that we can only enjoy it if we listen intently. It seems to me that the things music should do is entertain us, fill us with Joy, make us want to sing along, make us want to dance...
It is a joyful thing but some seem to want to turn it into a cultural weapon....I say just embrace it and have fun.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Vic Smith
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 11:10 AM

And no bloody award ceremonies or competitions, please!


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 11:21 AM

Spot on Vic. This back slapping onanistic smug self congratulatory practice, stinks. Until a horse wins one, then they're all bogus. ;)


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 11:22 AM

Agree on Vin Garbutt and Roy Bailey (old school leftie), both of whom I saw live.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 11:38 AM

having heard, dave the gnome ,i am not surprised he doesnt like source singers.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 11:44 AM

"old school leftie"
Once again McCarthyism rears its ugly head
Why do people sink to this childish name calling (particularly as the world is once again teetering on the brink of war once again thanks to belligerent rightism) !!
Give it a rest please or become a member and take your politics below the line
It really does have no place here
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 12:33 PM

You do have gift for “belligerent” hyperbole , Jim. It wasn’t,t McCarthyism, it was a simple comment about the singers political leanings, nothing more
many people, myself included, are often left cold by overly political preaching in songs. a good protest song is one thing, but rants are quite another, don,t you think ?


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 12:35 PM

Not sure what that means, Dick. Would you not rather stick to the point and let us know your own likes and dislikes? For what it's worth, I do like some of the source stuff. As I said in the OP I just find some of the stuff not to my taste.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 12:36 PM

but why is it necessary to mention a singers, politics ,does anyone talk about johnny collins or peter bellamy and their political leanings


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 12:39 PM

I would like to keep this thread interesting and clean please.

Thanks in advance


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 12:47 PM

Following HiLo's post, I could have mentioned Woody Guthrie, one of my absolute heroes, who used songs politically but never via rants. He made his points via stories, poetic writing and life experiences, no preaching, no bitterness. I love Dick Gaughan, but on occasion he hits you directly between the eyes with his politics. Christy has been known to do the same. My politics are their politics, and I'm not saying that their approach isn't valid, but I prefer to be given the sentiment alone and to flesh out the politics for myself, which is what Woody does. When I see a great painting, just a little background is all I need. I don't need a great explanatory screed. Art can communicate for itself, if it's good art.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 12:50 PM

"...and a lot more that I feel I'm insulting by leaving them out due to forgetfulness."

Damn! And Brian Peters, of course!


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,toubabdoc (David Levine)
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 01:02 PM

Re: "Old school leftie."Not necessarily an insult, Jimmy!
(Is this the Jimmu Carrol I used to know from the Critic's Group?)


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 01:08 PM

I'm quite proud to say that during my time at Swinton Folk Club and Festival I personally booked Roy Bailey, Vin Garbutt and Brian Peters. I also booked Rumworth Morris, the Orlek Ukrainian Dance Troupe and Ghanaian story teller Tuup. May give a good indication of my likes :-)


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 01:16 PM

I wouldn't call much of Roy Bailey's work "rants" either.

Come to think of it, the few singers-with-guitars I can appreciate are all the most political. Leon Rosselson and Anne Feeney can make every word count; neither has a reputation for instrumental pyrotechnics but they wouldn't want one.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 01:24 PM

I forgot one of my favourites too. Anthony John Clarke.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 01:54 PM

With English folk, at least, I like those that repeat the tune well - as I've detailed here.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 01:55 PM

here, sorry.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 02:21 PM

More xenophobe drivel linked there from Walkabout.

'Our streets full of foreign restaurants, our teams full of foreign footballers, our airwaves full of foreign music - modern England is a national disgrace.'

And more of it.

Mods should remove the links he posts.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 02:46 PM

Jim and your 'MacCarthyism' gibes: go away and grow up. This is one reason I liked the man for f's sake. This is a thread about music you like?


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 02:54 PM

"Not necessarily an insult, Jimmy!"
When it is used to denigrate what folk performers have to say it becomes exactly that David

"Is this the Jimmu Carrol I used to know from the Critic's Group?"
I was a member of the Critics Group
"Is this the Jimmu Carrol I used to know from the Critic's Group?"
Don't remember either a David Levine or anybody named 'Jimmu" :-)
Ewan's mam used to call me Jimmy

" It wasn’t McCarthyism, it was a simple comment about the singers political leanings, nothing more"
See above
This individual has set out to depict folk music in its entirety as a "leftie wet dream" from day one
Obviously draws her information from Mad Maggie's handbook of political diplomacy
Jim


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 03:11 PM

Please, people. This is supposed to be about music likes and dislikes. If you dislike political songs, just say so. No need to turn it into a battle ground. That route only leads to closure.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 03:12 PM

"Old school leftie" as a descriptor of Roy Bailey was indeed totally uncalled for. Roy was a gentle, caring man whose politics was well-considered, well-informed and well-grounded, aware of our socialist roots but well-versed in modern mores. About 25 years ago we spent a lovely evening with him when his gig at our pub went a bit pear-shaped due to lack of publicity. He was gracious about it and gave us a full set of songs and he chatted with us for ages. One of the nicest chaps I've ever met. Crude characterisations such as the one made by Karen are completely inappropriate.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 03:23 PM

I don't seem to know what a Source Singer is.

I like everything but rap and modern jazz, as genres go. But I don't like a lot of music that falls into genres I usually like.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 03:25 PM

Is it OK to say that I bloody hate jazz, Dave? :-)


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 03:28 PM

Well, Mrrzy, I'd never heard the term until I read the Walter thread. I suppose it's a convenient term but it's not accurate and it's a bit annoying. A bit like "folk scene." ;-)


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 03:56 PM

The term 'source singer' arose when some sectors of the folk scene started to describe revival singers as 'traditional singers' which was the term we always used for the likes of Walter. What terms would you like to see used instead of convenience terms 'source singer' and 'folk scene'? We're always looking to clarify.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 04:02 PM

It certainly is, Steve. I used to think the same but accidentally fell into a Jazz festival when I was working in Brussels and found some bits I liked. I think the Trappist beers helped as well :-)


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: meself
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 04:46 PM

Do you like and listen to recordings of the source singers?
Yes.

Do you prefer revival and present day singers?
No.

Do you like songs accompanied or unaccompanied?
No preference.

Do you like traditional, contemporary or both?
Trad, moreso.

What about electric folk?
Nope.

Dance music, social or ritual?
Sorry - what's the question? I like the dance music I like, if that helps ... ?


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 05:02 PM

We have an annual jazz festival in Bude. I'm still not impressed! We did see Acker Bilk there many years ago. That was grand. The only other jazz gig I went to was Humph's band in Exeter, six weeks before Humph unexpectedly died. A. bunch of old buggers with nothing to prove, no showing off, really enjoying themselves. Humph came out at the end and chatted to us and drew a lovely sketch in the book of his we'd bought for my dad-in-law. I can live with that. Humph told a joke about Barry Cryer.

Barry: "Have you ever shoed a horse?"

Humph: "No, but I once told a pig to piss off."


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 06:16 PM

Dunno, Steve. I'm a bit of an outsider when it comes to English traditional music, revelling as I mostly do in Irish tunery. "Scene" seems a bit pretentious and "source singers" is definitely inaccurate. Still, I only mentioned it, and I haven't got any convenient alternatives to hand. I can live with both terms, even though I might avoid using them.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 06:18 PM

I suppose I like a bit of everything, but I generally don't like "singer-songwriters," unless they are writing in a traditional style. I tend to seek out people who sing songs I can learn and sing. I don't really like to perform solo, although I sometimes do. My favorite thing to do, is to sing with other people. I've been involved in various forms of community singing since I was about ten years old, and I still can't get enough of it.

I used to like Peter Paul and Mary and the Kingston Trio and Limeliters and all that folk revival stuff of the 1950s and 1960s, but I think I've mostly outgrown them. Bok-Muir-Trickett and the Golden Ring albums that Sandy Paton and others recorded, are more to my liking now.

I like Roy Bailey a lot, often more than the people he got his songs from.

I like listening to and learning from source singers, but in small doses.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 20 - 07:14 PM

Quite an interesting aspect of much classical music was the extent to which it was Influenced by folk music. Mozart wrote a number of country dances, Dvorak got much inspiration from American tunes, Brahms, the ould bearded curmudgeon, spent most evenings in a village pub sitting in a corner on his own and really appreciated the local pub bands (I haven't spotted much of their influence in his music, though he did write all those Hungarian Dances), we needn't even mention Vaughan Williams or George Butterworth, and above all Beethoven, who not only set (nicely but unauthentically) some British folk songs but who also repeatedly parodied, always in a very affectionate way, country dance bands, slightly but delightfully losing their rhythm, in the "peasants' merrymaking" in the Pastoral Symphony, in the Allegro ma non tanto second movement (the trio bit) of his late A minor string quartet and in the memorable rustic stomp in the finale of the late E flat string quartet. Slightly pissed pub bands cropping up in some of the sublime masterpieces of western music: what's not to love!   It's really good to see these connections. Maybe there isn't folk, classical, jazz and pop. Maybe there's just music!


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 02:32 AM

Amen to that, Steve!

I mentioned changing trends in folk and other genres earlier. One thing that is consistent with all types of music. The good survives. Good music also seems to bridge genres but I guess that deserves a thread of its own :-)


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 03:25 AM


Quite an interesting aspect of much classical music was the extent to which it was Influenced by folk music


I had a quite long and as usual fruitless discussion with someone online on that topic when the BBC first decided to allocate a day of the Proms to folk music. Naturally, and to some extent understandably, my debater felt this was detracting from the classical nature of the proms.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 04:45 AM

1. Do you like and listen to recordings of the source singers?

Yes.

2. Do you prefer revival and present day singers?

No.

3. Do you like songs accompanied or unaccompanied?

No preference.

4. Do you like traditional, contemporary or both?

Lean more towards Trad songs that tell stories, a few present day writers manage to do this, most do not.

5. What about electric folk?

Nope, not as long as my butt points downwards.


6. Dance music, social or ritual?

Don't dance, don't go to dances so never listen to it.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 05:06 AM

I may also be unusual on the Mudcat in that I'm not a big fan of Irish sessions. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy some of the music well enough but I like more English and Scottish tunes and, to a certain extent, East European music. Could be in the genes I suppose but while I do have a little Irish in me, I have no Scottish blood at all. Yet I love the music. And the whisky but that's another story:-) The best session I ever heard (I don't join in. Not good enough) was at the Peveril of the Peak in Manchester where the Music was from all over the world. A sadly departed friend of mine, John Snelson (Pied Piper on here) had a hand in that one. Just out of interest.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 07:26 AM

I am still unclear on source singer but hey ho.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 07:26 AM

Dave , the problem with some irish sessions is that sometimes the musicians do not think about varying the rythyms so the listener can be given reel after reel instead of a slip jig, a slide, ahornpipe, a reel, a polka,


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 08:03 AM

That could be it, Dick. I know I like East European music because it is what I grew up with. Not sure why I like Scottish music so much. I like English dance music because I used to dance both socially and, occasionaly, Morris. Can't do Morris now with my knees but did manage a good few dances at a ceilidh last year -)


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 09:33 AM

Hi, PFR, source singers are people who are sources of traditional songs. They learned songs through tradition instead of through commercial processes. They are the ones folk song collectors went to, to collect early field recordings.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 09:41 AM

Well I've played hundreds of Irish tunes in pubs over the decades, almost all down yer in Cornwall, but I'm not sure that any of those occasions would have qualified as an Irish session. I did go to Dublin once, and went to (and played in) the Cobblestone. The sessions in there were fast, and had their complements of strummers and a dreaded bodhran or two, and admittedly all the tunes were Irish. Quality was high, but were they true sessions or paid gigs?? Another night I went to Hughes' Bar. The session in there was fiddles, flutes and Gay McKeon on the pipes :-) The pace was always very moderate. No drummers, no strummers, no pluckers. Not much conversation or drinking either, just a bunch of excellent players enjoying themselves and playing just for themselves. The next night I went to a pub just round the corner from the Auld Triangle pub, a long way up the hill from the centre of Dublin, I can't remember its name, invited to a session run by a lovely lady called Marion McEvoy. There was a bit of strumming and drumming but it was all in very good taste and I was cordially invited to sit in. Was that a true session? When we played in pubs down the years we always attracted extra customers (we wouldn't have got all that free beer otherwise!), but there was a fair smattering of songs and non-Irish tunes mixed in with the diddley. One aspect that always kept me going was my determination to play just for ourselves and not try to pretend we were putting on some kind of performance for the pub customers. It's great when people enjoy what we do, a bonus I'd say, and there's nowt wrong with the odd singalong song, but generally we just played for each other. I suppose that the big English cities may have sessions that are closer to qualifying as Irish sessions. The past tense signifies that my hearing has let me down enough by now to confine my noodling to my kitchen.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 11:06 AM

Judging by this thread, and I know it is not a proper sample, there seem to be more people that enjoy source singers than not. While I do get some enjoyment out of listening to the recordings, I enjoy other forms a lot more. I do not really want to spend time on one thing where I can get more pleasure out of another. I don't think that means that I am not a "folky". I still love many other aspects of folk and will continue to benefit from and contribute to folk music for as long as I am able. I'll just accept that I'm in a minority and stop letting it bother me :-)


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 11:12 AM

BTW, anyone know where JoeG is? I think he would enjoy contributing to this thread and I would like his views.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Nick
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 11:58 AM

Rumour (or Big brother) has it he was last seen in the Half Moon Inn in Durham about 1 hour ago


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 12:00 PM

Not surprised he hasn't posted then. Enjoying himself too much :-)


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: meself
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 12:10 PM

DTG: You sound rather apologetic and defensive about your tastes - I don't know why. You asked people what they like and they told you; they didn't attack you. You may still proudly call yourself a "folky" ... !


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 01:06 PM

Thanks meself but I wasn't being apologetic or defensive - honest! Sorry if I have that impression. I was just hoping to show what a broad church folk music is and that Whatever part of it you like is OK.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 05:56 PM

There I was trying to go incognito and Nick blew my cover ;-) My thoughts will be with you when I am back at the PC. Genuinely touched that you are interested in my enthusiasms Dave :-)


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 06:20 PM

Michael Hedges, of course.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 06:21 PM

whoops, wrong thread.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 06:28 PM

Stop beating about the bush, gilly...


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 07:00 PM

Paintbrush me red


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: leeneia
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 11:06 AM

Two types of folk music I dislike:

parodies - often mean-spirited and dirty-minded. I have stopped looking at parody threads

supposed lyrics to dance tunes which were merely quick and dirty mnenomics to help fiddlers recall the tune


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 01:07 PM

oooh.. at least this thread aint closed yet, while I'm still thinking about it's title question...


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 01:11 PM

I'm a big fan of W*lt*r Pa*d*n meself...


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Nick
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 03:37 PM

Walter Panda. I’m a big fan meself.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 05:06 PM

At the risk of offending the Interplanetary Folksong Society I hate Martian folk music.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: RTim
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 06:48 PM

I also dislike Parodies...and Rounds...

But love many types of Folk Music incl. European....

Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 07:04 PM

The proper Mudcat answer is "all types" because any that I don't like don't qualify as folk music. Or did I entirely misunderstand the arguements in the "state of folk music" thread?


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 08:14 PM

Naughty!


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 08:57 PM

The deletion neurotic seems to have struck...


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 01:26 PM

Finally got some time at the PC to respond to this!

Do you like and listen to recordings of the source singers?

No - have heard the Coppers & Joseph Taylor singing Brigg Fair and that's about it - though I do recognise their importance and understand why others find them of interest or even enjoy them

Do you prefer revival and present day singers?

Yes - my way into folk music was largely due to people like Johnny Handle, Jez Lowe & Ged Foley, the singers at the Nursery Folk club then folk rock - Steeleye and Five Hand Reel were the earliest - I didn't really get to know Fairport until much later

Do you like songs accompanied or unaccompanied?

Generally accompanied but very good unaccompanied singing can be a joy. I'm thinking particularly about Coope, Boyes and Simpson (together and individually) and a Yorkshire based, mostly unaccompanied female trio Yan Tan Tether who perform an interesting arrange of material including Bulgarian songs which I love

Do you like traditional, contemporary or both?

Both but with far more emphasis on contemporary. When I listen to traditional I prefer the arrangements to be interesting - eg Jim Moray, Jon Boden & Remnant Kings, Bellowhead. I prefer songs that have a direct relevance to the current day or recent past - though I love mining songs, many sailing songs and other industrial songs. I am not so keen on rural folk songs. Favourite contemporary songwriters not already mentioned here include John Tams (a folk God in my eyes!), Robb Johnson, Reg Meuross, Joe Solo, Grace Petrie, Nick Hall & Michelle Plum, Joseph Porter of Blyth Power (a genius with lyrics!) - there are so many more!

What about electric folk?

Oh yes in all its forms from crusty folk rock to modern electronica - eg Broadcaster, Jim Moray again, Runrig (once my favourite bands and still up there - got their final concert DVD for Christmas, Skippinish - again so many more!

Dance music, social or ritual?

Used to adore ceilidhs but my other half isn't up to them now and I'm getting that way. Blowzabella are a candidate for my all time favourite band along with Tickled Pink. Still love the music. Used to be in a morris team in my late teens but I was always going up when everyone else was going down so I didn't follow it through to adulthood once I moved away from home. Still enjoy the music though

As well as British and Irish folk I particularly enjoy music from around the world with the exception of the Far East (for the want of a better term). Not overly keen on South Asian music either but there are of course exceptions - Ragu Dixit is tremendous!

Enough for now - I've missed lots of people I love but gives you an idea. No suprises in there I suspect! :-)


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 01:34 PM

Thanks Joe. I think we have very similar tastes!

I'm always up for something new though and off to see a trio I know nothing about tonight - Setanta. If Brendan will let me out of the front door!


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 02:04 PM

Have a good night. I don't know them either. Looking forward to the report back


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 03:32 AM

They were very good. Primarily Irish stuff. Both traditional and contemporary. Not all to my taste but all performed skilfully and with obvious enjoyment. I need to look up one particular song, the blue rose, as it stood out for me. I also need to check if Bobby Sands "Back home in Derry" is the same tune as Gordon Lightfoot's "The wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald".


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 04:07 AM

Just found it. The Bright Blue Rose. Performed by many but the Mary Black version is very good indeed.

And, yes, the tune for Sands' Derry song was based on Lightfoot's.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 04:34 AM

Glad you enjoyed them


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 06:18 AM

Bright Blue Rose was written by Jimmy McCarthy. There's a treasurable version of the song sung by Christy Moore and Jimmy on Youtube. I always have trouble finding it. Jimmy also wrote Ride On, Mystic Lipstick, Missing you and No Frontiers, among others. He has a way with words that I really like. I hope Jack isn't reading this. ;-).


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 06:42 AM

Bobby Sands also wrote McIlhatton, another great song adopted by Christy.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 10:20 AM

Yebbut is it folk? :-0


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 10:49 AM

Bobby Sands died on the day my youngest son was born BTW. We kept a copy of the Daily Mirror from that date for years. No idea what became of it.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 09:20 PM

Is Christy folk? Well that's a tough one (so tough that I tend to care not a jot...). He's one of those who you could, if you really wanted to, regard as an offshoot from the offshoot that was Planxty....

I've seen Christy live four times, usually travelling hundreds of miles to see him. Christy live, uniquely among all other performers, is a totally different animal to the bloke you hear on most of his CDs ( a lot of which, to me, simply don't capture the man at all...). Go and see him live if you can. He sings Woody songs, Shane songs, Jimmy McCarthy songs, his own songs and lots of other songs. A man who sings Pair of Brown Eyes, Fairytale, Missing you, Bright Blue Rose, Ride On.... That'll do me!


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 10:03 PM

By the way, if Joe Offer happens to be reading this, the same Joe Offer who accused me of having nothing to say about music (he closed the thread before I could reply), I've posted 120 times above the line in the last calendar month. I don't know an awful lot about folk song, though I have many CDs of that genre, as my main interest is in the harmonica and in traditional Irish instrumental music, somewhat tangential issues on Mudcat. But I've played in pub sessions for over twenty years, just about once a week minimum, and strutted my Irish stuff at gigs for many a wedding and St Pat's nights and on many other occasions. I've made a CD and have penned over forty articles for Harmonica World, the mag of the National Harmonica League. I'm on YouTube and have submitted many a tune to the NHL, both scores and performances. My credentials are up there with anybody else's here. Just thought I'd mention it. You're welcome to check me out, Joe...

I love Nic Jones too.... :-)


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Karen Impola
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 10:45 PM

Getting back to the questions at the top of the thread (hi, I'm new, by the way - been reading here for ages, maybe posted once or twice as a guest)

Do you like and listen to recordings of the source singers?

Yes, but I think it's an acquired taste. I was initially drawn in by the more polished revival singers. I find that once I fall in love with a song or a tune or a style of music, I want to trace it back as far into the past as the history of recording technology permits.

Do you prefer revival and present day singers?

Like I said, they are the gateway drug. I probably spend more time listening to them than to source singers, but that's mainly because there are more of them around.

Do you like songs accompanied or unaccompanied?

Yes.

Do you like traditional, contemporary or both?

Both, although I prefer songwriters who are rooted in traditional styles to ones who aren't.

What about electric folk?

Of course! I imprinted on Fairport Convention and Steeleye Span at a young age. How could I not like it?

Dance music, social or ritual?

I like dance tunes a lot, even when I'm not dancing to them.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 03:47 AM

You have all the credentials, Steve, but why the antagonism and aggression?

Stevie G


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 03:56 AM

Can we keep this thread on track please Steve and Steve?


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 04:38 AM

Sure, Dave. Though I thought that what I posted gave a good flavour of my musical predilections, which is what the thread is about. Just in case anyone thought I was nowt but a political nutter! Point taken, howsumever...


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 04:41 AM

Thanks Steve and...

100!


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 05:45 AM

Not really a "type" of music, but an aspect of "our genre" that I dislike, is what I could misguidedly call unwarranted virtuosity. That's not the same thing as easy felicity, emanating from skill, a deep understanding of the music and the mastery of the instrument which makes the music sound amazing (and the lack of it :-( wot makes me sound positively clunky at times...) I can't listen to stuff that is making the instrument the point of the thing, rather than the music. I find that a lot of the young bucks especially are so anxious to show us how good they are on their fiddles/flutes/whistles, etc., that they can't resist playing flashily and/or with excessive speed. If you're playing a piece of Paganini, well you're supposed to be showing your virtuosity. But when it's applied to some jigs or reels I'm not happy. Know what I mean?


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 06:23 AM

I do know what you mean. I get a bit marked when I hear a session get hijacked by someone who just wants to show off.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Booden Gad
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 06:49 AM

Irish tune players with no awareness of the lack of rhythm and interest in their phrasing, is a slight bleh of mine, I'd never comment just agree that they're great. No problem if they understand they have an issue though.
    The Like question is harder as there's so much past and present it would take some lengthy listing. Cormac Begley (concertina) is one of the current younger players who imo is showing the way. Lots to like as lots of great tune players around both young and old, happy days for us enthusiasts.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,crumbly
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 09:20 AM

Inordinate speed seems to be a serious affliction of younger Irish players, or should I clarify- players of Irish music.

Younger players become older players, and arhythmic speed playing is becoming the norm. Many young players have never played for dancing, even 'Shoe the Donkey' or the 'Stack of Barley'and HERE LIES RHYTHM!!

However, it is true that some of the classic Irish players like Coleman, Morrison etc didn't hang about either, although their rhythm was always there.

I think there is a demand for fast, exciting music in many musical contexts, and maybe some of the 'tutors' and alleged experts (often with short apprenticeships in the music) are influenced by a parallel interest & taste for current genres of madcap pop music- hardly surprising?
Such tutors have a responsibility to emphasise the VARIETY of rhythms which make up Irish music, and make a point of listening to some more classic sources - e.g. Martin Byrnes, Bobby Gardiner, Leo Rowsome rather than globe-trotting 'Celtic' folk/rock bands who can remain nameless- no intention of starting a furore!   all IMHO of course


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 11:42 AM

I think the Morrisons and Colemans quite often went hell for leather because they were trying to fit their sets on to four-minute sides of 78s.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 01:08 PM

Steve - a friend of mine coined the term (well I think he did!) 'Mindless virtuosity' when we were watching a once famous (in folk circles!) trio many years ago!


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,crumbly
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 01:13 PM

Some truth in this, illustrated by the strange keys which were sometimes the result of '78' technicians speeding things up to fit the disc- four minutes was the exception rather than the rule- 3 minutes was and still is the length of a standard track/tune/disc


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Booden Gad
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 01:49 PM

I'm not too bothered by the speed as long as there is still clarity and rhythm. Can be fast,slow leisurely,or whatever as long as it sits right still, if you know what i mean. As i said we are lucky as plenty of fine players around.
    Telling the young fit and able not to play too fast is pointless when they have the chops, imo. Most mellow a bit as they age I'd imagine. Hurts my wrists and fingers watching some of them.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 01:57 PM

Love fast music as long as it still has feeling (which is hard to define you just know it when you hear it!)


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 04:44 PM

Chops is one thing. Getting under the skin of the music is entirely another. I don't condemn all fast playing and I'd never insist that everything on a CD should be played at dance speed. A great example of a CD with a lot of fast playing that still sounds great (at least to my ear) is Barking Mad by Four Men and a Dog.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 04:47 PM

Yeah they were amazing!


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 04:52 PM

>>>>>>I get a bit marked when I hear a session get hijacked by someone who just wants to show off.<<<<<<<

Spot on, Dave, but it doesn't just happen in Irish sessions. I have been known to speak up on odd occasions as you can imagine. Even worse when it's a mixed session and there are relative beginners trying to get to grips. To compound things this one I'm thinking of used to arrive late at session and then play all the tunes that had already been played at normal speed, at twice the speed.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 06:58 PM

By the way, Steve, grrr. "Stevie G" is it now. Well you know that there is only one Stevie G, he dressed in red and his surname is Gerrard... I'm thinking you did that on purpose...


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 16 Jan 20 - 04:54 AM

A world famous jazz musician once despaired of some of the younger generation of players as playing "fast nothing". I hear far too much of that in Scotland these days. I don't condemn it. I just ignore it.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,crumbly
Date: 16 Jan 20 - 05:17 AM

This is about the music we like & dislike- if it is me who is being accused of 'showing off', you need to be more specific.
I thought I was fairly clear that I have a dislike of arhythmic Irish music as that was the subject of discussion- this is normally fast music and Irish music seems to be especially afflicted- maybe Scottish too, says Kenny, but I wouldn't know?

However, slow airs can be similarly mangled by a lack of understanding of the music & I gave examples of mature musicians to listen to- there are plenty more....


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 20 - 09:15 AM

I certainly wasn't alluding to you, Crumbly. I don't even know who you are! There are some who enjoy the 100mph sessions but I personally don't. I agree with you about the rhythm mainly but there are certain tunes and songs which do change rhythm - Princess Royal for instance - where it does work.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 16 Jan 20 - 11:16 AM

One important musician I forgot to mention in my 'likes' is the late Martyn Bennett - just been reminded by a track of his being played on the BBC Folk Programme which I'm catching up with. He created some of the most interesting, exciting and innovative interpretations of folk song I've ever heard - his album Grit is astonishing!

Certainly not one for the folk purists but highly recommnded for open minded folkies who have not heard his work yet


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,crumbly
Date: 16 Jan 20 - 12:36 PM

NO i wasn't referring to your post, dave...


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 20 - 12:51 PM

Ah, Ok. Thanks for the clarification Crumbly.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 Jan 20 - 03:08 PM

I remember one match at the KC Stadium where Stevie G was made to look quite ordinary, but I concede that didn't happen very often.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 Jan 20 - 03:23 PM

Dave,
Congratulations on getting the 100 in on your own thread!


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 20 - 10:57 AM

not as many as Ben Stokes today.....


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 08:49 AM

On a programme where famous folks are taken back to the holiday spots of their childhood (Holiday of my Lifetime, ITV), I just heard Daniel O'Donnell sing unaccompanied, in a pub where he got his first break, about County Donegal.

That was a great piece of Irish culture but then they showed a clip of him backed by the sounds of American country which is a great shame, in my opinion.

I checked Wiki and it says his "music has been described as a mix of country and Irish folk,"...why not just stick to the latter which, as I say, he does very well..?! More related thoughts here.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 09:13 AM

Daniel O'Donnell and the word "culture" do not belong in the same sentence/paragraph/chapter/book/bookshelf/library.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 09:30 AM

Steve - unaccompanied singing is very much a part of traditional Irish culture and, if you use ITV's hub to check the abovementioned programme, I think you will agree he did that very well.

When I turned up on the comp days/Saturdays of folk festivals in Durham and Northumberland a few years ago, I heard some very good unaccompanied singers there, also - especially among the females, frankly.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 09:39 AM

'unaccompanied singing is very much a part of traditional Irish culture'

Which does not, ofcourse, mean any unaccompanied singing becomes 'traditional' or even 'folk' (which in Ireland implies different things).

DOD, is, well, a successful entertainer and celebrity. If you're into that sort of thing.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,crumbly
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 11:38 AM

This an opportunity not to be missed for DOD jokes....


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 11:54 AM

This type? :

Daniel : a gas man


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 01:11 PM

As Dirty Harry said, Peter, "a man's got to know his limitations"...in DOD's case, leaving faulty boilers (gas, that is) to registered installers and American culture to Americans.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 01:16 PM

He can sing whatever he likes and take his inspiration wherever he likes. He is extremely popular doing what he does. And not everybody has to like it.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 20 - 07:10 PM

Please include me in not everybody.


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 02:34 PM

You mean you wouldn't buy a used car of DOD, have him recommend a plumber and/or listen to his best sean-nós, Steve?!


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Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 20 - 09:41 PM

I could suggest that you take some time to listen to some real sean-nos.


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