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BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread

Raggytash 06 Jan 20 - 05:46 AM
Dave the Gnome 06 Jan 20 - 05:25 AM
Iains 06 Jan 20 - 04:39 AM
Raggytash 06 Jan 20 - 04:30 AM
Iains 05 Jan 20 - 05:48 PM
Nigel Parsons 05 Jan 20 - 03:47 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Jan 20 - 07:47 PM
Raggytash 04 Jan 20 - 05:06 PM
Nigel Parsons 04 Jan 20 - 04:29 PM
Backwoodsman 04 Jan 20 - 04:19 PM
Raggytash 04 Jan 20 - 04:08 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Jan 20 - 03:44 PM
Iains 04 Jan 20 - 04:55 AM
DMcG 04 Jan 20 - 04:40 AM
punkfolkrocker 04 Jan 20 - 02:26 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Jan 20 - 06:29 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Jan 20 - 06:26 PM
Raggytash 03 Jan 20 - 04:37 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Jan 20 - 03:52 PM
Iains 03 Jan 20 - 03:44 PM
Iains 03 Jan 20 - 12:50 PM
punkfolkrocker 03 Jan 20 - 12:37 PM
punkfolkrocker 03 Jan 20 - 12:21 PM
punkfolkrocker 03 Jan 20 - 12:18 PM
Iains 03 Jan 20 - 10:47 AM
DMcG 03 Jan 20 - 10:37 AM
punkfolkrocker 03 Jan 20 - 10:27 AM
punkfolkrocker 03 Jan 20 - 10:25 AM
Iains 03 Jan 20 - 09:40 AM
punkfolkrocker 03 Jan 20 - 09:21 AM
Iains 03 Jan 20 - 09:02 AM
punkfolkrocker 03 Jan 20 - 08:46 AM
Iains 03 Jan 20 - 05:24 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Jan 20 - 04:44 AM
Iains 03 Jan 20 - 04:32 AM
Dave the Gnome 03 Jan 20 - 04:15 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Jan 20 - 07:47 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Jan 20 - 06:52 PM
Iains 02 Jan 20 - 01:34 PM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jan 20 - 01:05 PM
Iains 02 Jan 20 - 12:12 PM
punkfolkrocker 02 Jan 20 - 11:59 AM
Iains 02 Jan 20 - 11:49 AM
punkfolkrocker 02 Jan 20 - 11:41 AM
Nigel Parsons 02 Jan 20 - 11:21 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jan 20 - 10:43 AM
Raggytash 02 Jan 20 - 10:05 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Jan 20 - 09:39 AM
Iains 02 Jan 20 - 09:35 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jan 20 - 09:06 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 05:46 AM

Anyway back to my original question.

How is ANY government allowed to claim that "only" 1.2 million people are unemployed when another figure would indicate that 3.4 million have NEVER been employed.

Is the total figure in fact 4.6 million people unemployed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 05:25 AM

If you consider it trolling, why do you not follow Mudcat advice and ignore it? In the same way that your trolling and flame bait posts are ignored by others.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 04:39 AM

A pure example of trolling by raggy. Will it be deleted?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Jan 20 - 04:30 AM

I wonder which bit of "I realise that the way in which the figures are calculated have been doctored by governments of all persuasions to decrease those classed as "unemployed" he didn't understand.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 05 Jan 20 - 05:48 PM

There is not much point in trying to score political points when it comes to unemployment. It reached an all time low in 1973 under Heath, and an all time high under Thatcher, and now is at an all time low. Is unemployment the result of deliberate government policy, boom and bust economic cycles, internal or external forces or a combination of all? Each party has been guilty of massaging unemployment figures to the extent the raw figures are meaningless when taken in isolation.
"The UK unemployment rate fell to 3.8 percent in the three months to July 2019, back to its joint lowest since the October to December 1974 period and slightly below market expectations of 3.9 percent." Source
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/unemployment-rate
In the EU-28 in 2018, there were on average 3.4 million unemployed persons aged 15-24 and 22.4 million persons of that age group in the labour market, according to the EU labour force survey. This gives a youth unemployment rate of 15.2 %.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/
For the UK the rate is 11.2%, Spain 33%


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Jan 20 - 03:47 PM

That is why I am asking the question Nigel.
Then in answer to the question: are the 1.2 million (plus) registered as unemployed part of the 3.4 million who, seemingly have NEVER actually been employed.
The answer has to be that it is impossible to say without having a view of the underlying figures, and even then you'd probably need some form of a Venn diagram to explain the results.
To start, with 8.2 million pupils in school, it would be a reasonable (first approximation) estimate that with school age 4-18 then 2/14 of that number (1.17 million) are 16 & 17 year olds. With the great fall in youth employment (paper rounds etc.) this would be a good start toward the figures quoted.
The figures would also include young mothers who left school to immediately set up home.
I will avoid taking this as anything other than a question with no political bias, although Steve Shaw wants to swing it that way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 07:47 PM

Well there are the truly unemployed. The way the figures go, there are far fewer of them than, say, under Thatcher. It's quite important to recognise that "unemployment" has been massaged by all governments for decades. Do you mean just those on jobseekers? Or do you include those without jobs who don't qualify for jobseekers? Do you include the hundreds of thousands who are phoned up every week to be told there's no work and no pay today? How does it go for seasonal workers? What about those young people on fake apprenticeships that involve putting the kettle on and sweeping up after everyone else has gone home? Gig economy - how do we count those when sometimes they work, other times they don't, for sure never getting sick/maternity/holiday pay? How about those on ESA who are routinely hassled by jobcentres and sanctioned at the whim of inhuman jobsworths? Thatcher managed to convince us that unemployment was not rising by putting hundreds of thousands of people thrown out of industrial jobs in steel, the mines and other industries on to "incapacity benefit" when most of them were more than fit for work.

Unemployment statistics are a huge lie. Look for yourself behind the numbers. If employment was so healthy, there would be no-one sleeping rough, no food banks and no-one struggling with rent arrears.

This is the culture promoted by a decade of Toryism. We are told the lie that there are more "in work" than ever before. What they don't tell us is how many of those "in work" are in work today and out tomorrow, or next week. They don't tell us how many in-work people, "in work" by their measure, can't pay their rent or who have to go to food banks. It's a useful lie to tell, because if we are all doing so well the Tories can manage to cut taxes for the rich. You know how it goes...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 05:06 PM

That is why I am asking the question Nigel.

I realise that the way in which the figures are calculated have been doctored by governments of all persuasions to decrease those classed as "unemployed"

I also know that the age of legal employment has been raised.

However you do not address, or answer my question, which was are the 1.2 million (plus) registered as unemployed part of the 3.4 million who, seemingly have NEVER actually been employed.

I have to say though that I am a tad surprised by this figure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:29 PM

From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:08 PM
Serious question here with no political bias intended.
A few weeks ago I posted that according to official figure there were 1.2 million people unemployed.
Today I have seen reports that nearly 3.5 million people of working age have never been employed.
Does that mean that 4.7 million people are now currently unemployed?
I realise that SOME people are in the fortunate position that their partner earns sufficient to keep them both but the figure of 3.5 million who have NEVER been employed I find astounding.


If you read the link in your post you will see that much (not given in figures) of this is about 16-17 year olds who have never had a Saturday job (or, presumably a paper round) who are being included in the figures.
In the past these would have left school and been looking for, or have found, employment. Under recent changes to the age at which they are allowed to end education (unless they secure an apprenticeship or similar) they are now included as "of working age". It's not an increase in unemployment, it's a different way of viewing the figures.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:19 PM

Presumably they don’t count as ‘unemployed’ because, as they’ve never actually been employed, they’re not eligible to claim Unemployment Benefit?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:08 PM

Serious question here with no political bias intended.

A few weeks ago I posted that according to official figure there were 1.2 million people unemployed.

Today I have seen reports that nearly 3.5 million people of working age have never been employed.

Does that mean that 4.7 million people are now currently unemployed?

I realise that SOME people are in the fortunate position that their partner earns sufficient to keep them both but the figure of 3.5 million who have NEVER been employed I find astounding.

Link


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 03:44 PM

Starmer is a man-in-suit, second referendum remainer bloke.. Spot the weaknesses. Jess is a great backbencher who would scare Johnson to death, but I can't see her as a uniter of the party. Lisa Nandy is great on Question Time but that's as far as it goes. Lightweight. I suppose I should like her more because she went to the same school as my sister. :-) Clive Lewis is an interesting character but his campaign isn't getting off the ground as yet. Emily Thornberry just comes across all wrong somehow. Frustratingly, Angela Rayner only wants to be deputy leader. If she were standing for leader I'd support her. Rebecca is strong but the baggage will always haunt her. Not sure about her yet, though she ticks all my leftie boxes. I'm edging away from her a bit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:55 AM

DMcG Jess Phllips has posted some fairly daft statements on twitter that make her credibility questionable. Starmer is probably regarded by Tories as the most dangerous. But do you really think Labour has any candidate that can climb out of the hole they presently inhabit? The cult of Corbynism and the outright rejection by the electorate of anything smacking of momentum means that at the moment they are in a vacuum. I am amazed corbyn is allowed to remain. His front bench performance is that of a goldfish out of water. He has turned his partyinto a rudderless, powerless laughing stock.
I for one demand a better opposition party than that!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 04:40 AM

Since there are some comments sprinkled about here about the potential Labour leadership and a few names are now appearing, here are a few of my thoughts.

They need to get both the policies and the person right. To me, Rebecca Long-Bailey fails on both fronts. I cannot see her as naturally liked in Middlesbrough and Redcar: I have just returned from that area having spent New Year with relatives, and, no, I am afraid she is not a good fit.

Her policies are too Corbynista as well, as far as I can tell. I listened into a webcast during the election for the Labour 'door knockers' and during it McDonnell said where the free Internet idea came from. I think it very informative, so I repeat it here. They were in Colne Valley and talking with councils and local businessmen about attracting new businesses to the area. It seems they did not have too much difficulty getting potential new business to consider the area, but the Internet connection in the area is extremely poor. For a modern business that is a huge obstacle. Clearly, of course, Colne is not the only place with this issue. So they had - correctly - identified a block on new business. They had identified - correctly again - that Colne is by no means the only place where poor Internet might be blocking new business. They had also identified - correctly - that getting a fast Internet to these areas would be a great asset for getting the business they need.

And then they blew it by leaping to the idea that everyone, even with excellent Internet, should have it for free. It is, in my book, where ideology overrode actually finding a solution to the problem they had identified.

I think Rebecca Long-Bailey is too closely aligned to that way of thinking.

Keith Starmer, while not yet announced as a candidate, seems to be very popular amongst Labour members. I would find him very acceptable, and am convinced he would not make the Internet blunder. He may not be a natural fit with the Teesside area, but I don't think he would be an obstacle like Rebecca.

Jess Phillips probably wins hands down in the likeability stakes, and I think most voters would see her history of rejecting some the 'wilder Corbyn ideas' (as they are portrayed) as positive. Whether Labour members would is another matter, so I think she could well be rejected by the membership.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Jan 20 - 02:26 AM

Well between folks on my side of the political fence lecturing me who I mustn't talk to;
and mods deleting posts I considered to be making intelligent and serious points regarding UK politics,
in a UK politics thread...

why the f@ck not discuss frivolous trivia.
.. if we're not allowed to talk about anything more meaningful...!!!???

So then.. we are allowed one UK politics thread, providing we don't discuss UK politics in it...????

..anything else we need to know to avoid unnecessary confusion...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 06:29 PM

(Wait for the backlash, Raggy...should we also discuss recipes, red wine and wild flowers...?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 06:26 PM

Dammit, Raggytash, that even made Mrs Steve laugh and that's a bloody tough ask is that!

Mind you, as you'd mentioned Belle Vue, it prompted me to read it to her in a northern accent. That helped...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 04:37 PM

Should really put this on the joke thread but what the hell.

Two snakes are sitting in a glass tank at Belle Vue zoo.

One snake asks: Are we the type of type of snake that wraps ourselves around the victim and crushes, starves them of oxygen, and basically suffocates them before we eat them or are we the type of snakes that bites them and injects them with poisonous venom and kills them that way before we eat them.





Don't know says the other snake, why do you ask.




I've just bit me tongue sez the first.



I'll get me coat!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 03:52 PM

Woman sez to her husband, me feet are bloody killing me. I can hardly walk. He looks at her and he sez, no wonder, you've got your shoes on the wrong feet. She sez, but these are the only feet I've got...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 03:44 PM

How to avoid trolls? I know, simply ignore them. It irritates them intensely.
Let us see how the Labour loons are doing:
They have tabled a motion to delay brexit. Slow learners or what?
Jess Phillips launches bid to be next Labour leader saying she'll confront 'anybody in power' and claims the government FEARS her 340,000 Twitter following. I fear for her sanity if she believes that sh*t.
Another person is backing Abbot - a woman so far to the left that she refuses to wear right shoes! The length and severity of her son's charge sheet could cause her a few additional problems as well.

The Lib Dems seek to scupper Brexit AGAIN - this time with a public inquiry. Seems like another of Baldric's cunning plans to me.
Obviously it will go nowhere.Perhaps someone should update them on the recent election results. The remainiacs were largely culled from Parliament, and are now but a shoutie minority! But still making a nuisance of themselves. They simply do not understand their lack of a numerical advantage, probably because they are arts grads. Judging by his recent recruitment drive Dominic wont be making that mistake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 12:50 PM

Pfr if you have any kind of technical job in the private sector you have to continually update your skills. Anyone with chartered status has to undergo continuing professional development.
I would suggest that D Cummins is making a perfectly rational decision to have technical jobs in government carried out by technically qualified people who will also have to undergo continual assessment.
Waffling with a humanities degree just ain't in the same league.Would you want a reactor run by a sociologist. or heaven forbid, a teacher? If the civil service unions do not like it we know who will win that war. Mighty Maggie showed the way
We have just had a general election that made clear the electorate desire to have the government of the day govern, not a bunch of rebels,
or unions. The future is bright, the future is Bojo!

Social engineering is what the left has done to the educational system.
Frankly I preferred the social engineering of the 11*. The latter provided clear benefits to those that took advantage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 12:37 PM

Dominic Cumsock's weirdo scheme is just a blatant attempt at social engineering
by way of nastily prejudiced employment discrimination...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 12:21 PM

"Not either / or one, or the other in polar opposition..."

Grrrr.. bugger that misplaced comma...

Not either / or, one or the other in polar opposition....


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 12:18 PM

Yes.. but you'd expect right wing think tanks to say that...

New tory dream - Govt welfare departments run by AI algorithms,
programmed for compassion and empathy by Dominic Cummings...

"Science students do well in non-science courses, but non-science students have difficulty in science courses. "

btw.. at school I was consistently top of the class in Biology and English..

Not either / or one, or the other in polar opposition

it's known as being a balanced well rounded individual....


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 10:47 AM

PFR the linked study suggested “Science students do well in non-science courses, but non-science students have difficulty in science courses. Slaves of exactness find it easier to adjust to the inexact, though they may be disdainful of it, than those who think in the realm of the inexact when confronted with the exact.” Perhaps envy subtly contributes to liberal arts defensiveness against STEM
and
Political correctness has corroded the humanities and social studies, as recently noted by David Patten in The Federalist and last year by Harvey Silverglate in the Wall Street Journal. After rejecting their objective anchors in the academic canon of classical texts, these fields succumbed to passionate group thinking and sybaritic self-absorption. The arts have become a free-for-all, as witnessed by the plethora of departments categorized by identity politics and demands for “trigger warnings” for traumatized souls.
Houston, we have a problem!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 10:37 AM

Do philosophy majors read Aristotle, David Hume, or Friedrich Nietzsche any more?
Also anecdotal, but yes, based on my daughter's degrees. And also the 'A' level philosophy syllabus she taught.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 10:27 AM

Welcome to a future of AI art, literature, and music...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 10:25 AM

oh no it wasn't...

So over reliance on pedantic abstract statistics is a better solution for society's needs and ills,
than intelligent considered critical humanist analysis and judgement based on personal experiences..

That certainly spotlights a significant divide between humanities and non humanities graduates...

The robots are taking over...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 09:40 AM

Anecdotes about a limited sample does not sit well when making sweeping assertions about the belligerence or pacifism of stem versus humanity students as you should well know.
Had I dared make such an assertion the cabal would be on the case like rats up a drainpipe or all over it like a rather nasty antisocial rash.
After all yours was a blanket condemnation, albeit a limited sample.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 09:21 AM

"wild claims..."...????????????????

Iains - did I say my quick post was anything more than an anecdotal recollection
of my own experience 40 years ago...

Yeah.. asking for statistics on that is a bit of a pointless request...
But if you want facts...

The town and country planning students I knew were fairly conservative,
though amiable enough blokes to have a pint and party with..
The crazy violent Law student was a much feared sociopath known as "Jock"...

That'll have to do for your research needs...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 09:02 AM

PFR of course you can provide copious statistics to back up your rather wild claims?
Others would dispute your allegations

https://thefederalist.com/2015/06/02/the-liberal-arts-are-dead-long-live-stem/
Engineering students, for example, attend an essential core set of courses that includes calculus, physics, and chemistry. Should we assume that English majors still peruse Shakespeare and Chaucer? Probably not. Do philosophy majors read Aristotle, David Hume, or Friedrich Nietzsche any more? Do sociologists study Plato, Voltaire, or James Madison? etc.
Stem students deal in facts, not ideology (or at least most of us do)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 08:46 AM

"put the call out for a new generation of non-humanities graduates to move into the offices of power"

Funny that... back in the early 80s at our Polytechnic Campus / Halls of Residence
the non humanities students tended to be at worst openly racist thatcherite thugs...

Who were fully intent on gaining as much power as they could seize in their apiring career paths...

[if i recall one on the wannabe lawyers was sectioned after a particularly violent episode...]

The Humanities students like my mrs tended to be just normal average well balanced young people
[with a small minority of middle class kids flirting with socialist worker party membership...]
following up their A levels in History and English lit and suchlike...

They tended towards caring and creative professions...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 05:24 AM

An online petition shared by Mr Corbyn's brother Piers is urging him to reverse his decision to resign and has gathered more than 13,000 signatures already. This is despite him taking the country to its worst election result since 1935. His shadow home secretary(who would be in charge of the police) has just had her son charged with 11 offences, nine assaults including biting a policemen, one count of racially aggravated criminal damage, and one count of exposure.
In other news a yougov poll shows Half of Britons want the BBC licence fee scrapped and would like the broadcaster to adopt a commercial model and make its money through advertisements - like ITV and Channel 5 - or subscriptions. It was also revealed that chief adviser Dominic Cummings could lead a review of the BBC’s funding. (Watch out BBC)
Cummins has, in a 3,000 word blog, put the call out for a new generation of non-humanities graduates to move into the offices of power and launch a seismic hiring scheme to sweep away the cobwebs of Whitehall. Bring us your tired, your poor, your weirdos and misfits… Bring it on, I say

As Émile Coué de la Châtaigneraie would say "Tous les jours à tous points de vue je vais de mieux en mieux"


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 04:44 AM

Unreal. :-)

You're quite right, Dave. I've had a temporary splurge following Iains' despicable bout of lying. I've also petitioned a moderator pretty intensely to do the sensible thing and remove his membership. I've been given wacky and unconvincing reasons why they haven't done it. So from now on he's a non-person.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 04:32 AM

Workington man. Without knowing your political affiliation it is hard to recommend a blog. Despite the abuse Guido Fawkes receives on this forum, on things political, he is often before the MSM when it comes to breaking news, Each of his postings has comprehensive contributions from his readers. They are mainly brexit supporters but also include a few remainers. Guido polices his contributors rigorously.
The slog(by Mr Ward) is also largely political but has far fewer remarks than Guido.
I tend to get my sources from all over, from Russia Today to the Guardian. I am of no particular political persuasion I am ruled more by facts than ideology.
I am sure others here could point you to many other political blogs that encourage contributions.
I have to say that any political discussion on this forum is promptly hijacked by the bullying cabal and rational argument drowned out in a sea of abuse. This is a shame as the membership crosses all parties and affiliations and hold widely divergent views.
Please stay around and voice your opinions. The more the merrier in my view. I hope you have some success in your search.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 04:15 AM

Once again, if the advice on the Mudcat FAQ is followed, there should not be a problem. Don't respond to trolls. Don't rise to flame bait.

Steve, the lies are as obvious as the wind ups. Everyone knows it. A one liner is fine and remind people if necessary but repeated responses only feed his craving for attention. Not responding makes it obvious where the problem really lies.

Workingtonman (is it Pete?) Don't go. We need your measured and sane input! Without it there will be fewer people trying to stop the swing to the right that is plaguing the rest of society.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 07:47 PM

Back at you too, Stanron. Nice to see you breaking a New Year's resolution on the 2nd. Perhaps you'd like to tell us the last time either you or your extreme right-wing mate, about whom you never utter an adverse word, was "nice" on this forum. Birds of a feather, I suppose.

My bigger point is, on topic, that a culture has developed in politics in which blatant lying is passed by, excused and exonerated. That's very worrying, and unchallenged lying, as is routinely practised in Russia and China, is a direct assault on democracy. You keep the people politically ignorant then you lie to them. It happens now in America and it happened, bigtime, in both the referendum campaign and in the last election campaign. I'm not talking about "breaking promises." I'm talking about bare-faced lying of the £350 million type, the immigration poster type and, earlier, the tuition fees type. The number of times I heard Johnson or Gove, among others, lying to camera and not being properly challenged was staggering. Now we have a man on this forum who is trying to cash in on that same culture. Well I for one am not up for letting that go, thanks. If that means you don't think I'm very nice, Stanron, well I can tell you that I won't be crying into my pillow tonight. Choose your friends more carefully would be good advice to you, lest you be tarred...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:52 PM

You are lying because you made a claim for which there is NO chapter and verse. The thousands of posts don't exist and they never did. I'm sorry for being boring here, but this man should not be allowed to absolve himself from telling lies via frequent and varied attempts at diversion. Either he comes clean and admits that he was making things up or we should accept absolutely nothing that he says from now on, ever, even when he's "trying to be nice."


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 01:34 PM

The Corbyn I referred to above is of course Bercow. My apologies.

As far as compo and Labour are concerned:
"When your enemy is in the process of destroying himself, stay out of his way." -Sun Tzu


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 01:05 PM

You may think differently.

I know differently. The constraint is on the methods, not the subject matter. If you start a political thread and manage to keep it clean, it will stay open.

Good luck with that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 12:12 PM

PFR more than happy to oblige when the cabal desist from their constant sniping. Regrettably if I do not provide chapter and verse I am accused of lying. This makes it difficult to shrink the subject matter on occasions.
I see Boris has hit the ground running, according to Guido(the man with his ear to the ground in Westminster.)
He is casting his beady eye on the machinations of the supreme court and the boundary Commission. Hopefully he will then investigate accusations of collusion with the EU by the likes of Corbyn et al. This would also include the alleged help of the EU in drafting the Ben Bill.
There is much meat to chew off those bones I suspect, and would fit well with the proposed revision of the treason bill.
We will hope these are promises that will be honoured in their entirety.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 11:59 AM

Iains - it's a new year, and and a step into a hopefully less divisive and more amicable future..

Any chance of the sensible, interesting, occasionally helpful, version of the "Iains" persona reappearing sometime soonish...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 11:49 AM

A distraction: They still do not get it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0DQGys7cMs


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 11:41 AM

Whoever the "Iains" poster is today - your posts are too long and detailed
to be bothered with reading them..

I [and probably other readers] simply don't have that much spare time when catching up on this thread...

Same goes for any othe poster indulging in such lengthy copy n pastes...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 11:21 AM

From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 09:06 AM
Now that the forum has been restricted to a single thread discussing UK politics
It has not been restricted as far as I know. It is a request from the moderation team to limit the number of threads so they have less shit to shovel.


From the 'Brexit' thread:
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Dec 19 -
There are TOO MANY UK POLITICAL THREADS GOING on this American folk and blues music site. These things repel users and the fighting bleeds into other threads. Constrain yourselves to one thread.


That reads to me as an instruction, not a request. You may think differently.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 10:43 AM

It really is dead simple. If you don't want posts to be deleted keep them relevant and civil. Some will slip through the net as the moderators can only do so much but not 'thousands' as stated. Other posts that may be deleted are those discussiong moderation policy or those posted to simply cause trouble.

I keep posting this link but it feels like I am banging my head against a brick wall. It is worth reading.

Etiquette & Advice


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 10:05 AM

Steve, that quoted post was not in reply to the lying, mendacious creep we are dealing with now.

It was in reply to another lying, mendacious, deceitful bastard who used to infest this forum, nothing to do with the man above or any of his posts.

Like you said more dishonesty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 09:39 AM

Tell us the thread and let's see the context. And listing total posts does not give the information you've repeatedly been asked for. More dishonesty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 09:35 AM

”You're wasting your time with those requests, we all know he won't answer and a number of the toxic exchanges have been deleted. Your best bet is to simply ignore trolls.”
Good to see the least expression of a counter narrative to the cabal is
classified as lies, trolling and flame bait and frequently deleted.
It simply confirms publicly that political moderation is alive and well on mudcat.

As requested:
You can sort through them I have far better things to do

Raggedytash posts 5,765 ( your contribution is miniscule)
The Gnome posts 22,675
Shaw posts 23,952
The backwood prof. of scatology posts 7,638
He who must not be mentioned posts 30,000
An example to wet the palate , so to speak:

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 06 Apr 17 - 05:27 PM
What a bloody prick you are. I post or not post whenever I want, and you do not get to jump to conclusions about my views from that. It's lucky for you that I don't tell you what I really think about you a damn sight more often than I do, you arrogant little turd. If I were you I wouldn't read anything at all into the fact that I hold back....

I must say you lefties are the height of charm when taken to task!

Why was the post above not deleted?

Oh but that would be a level playing field and we cannot have that!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 09:06 AM

Now that the forum has been restricted to a single thread discussing UK politics

It has not been restricted as far as I know. It is a request from the moderation team to limit the number of threads so they have less shit to shovel. If you wish to open another and have good reason I suggest you take it up with them. Maybe if the threads were not full of lies, trolling and flame bait they would have less to do anyway.


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