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BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread

Iains 01 Jan 20 - 03:34 PM
Donuel 01 Jan 20 - 04:13 PM
Donuel 01 Jan 20 - 04:34 PM
Iains 01 Jan 20 - 04:53 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Jan 20 - 05:19 PM
Stilly River Sage 01 Jan 20 - 09:11 PM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jan 20 - 03:02 AM
Iains 02 Jan 20 - 04:37 AM
Stanron 02 Jan 20 - 05:13 AM
Raggytash 02 Jan 20 - 05:32 AM
Stanron 02 Jan 20 - 05:52 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Jan 20 - 06:01 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Jan 20 - 06:04 AM
Raggytash 02 Jan 20 - 06:05 AM
Nigel Parsons 02 Jan 20 - 06:06 AM
Iains 02 Jan 20 - 06:07 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Jan 20 - 06:22 AM
Raggytash 02 Jan 20 - 06:22 AM
Stanron 02 Jan 20 - 06:27 AM
Iains 02 Jan 20 - 06:35 AM
Iains 02 Jan 20 - 06:38 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Jan 20 - 07:01 AM
Iains 02 Jan 20 - 07:29 AM
Raggytash 02 Jan 20 - 08:20 AM
Iains 02 Jan 20 - 08:26 AM
Raggytash 02 Jan 20 - 08:33 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Jan 20 - 08:44 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Jan 20 - 08:54 AM
Stanron 02 Jan 20 - 09:03 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jan 20 - 09:06 AM
Iains 02 Jan 20 - 09:35 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Jan 20 - 09:39 AM
Raggytash 02 Jan 20 - 10:05 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jan 20 - 10:43 AM
Nigel Parsons 02 Jan 20 - 11:21 AM
punkfolkrocker 02 Jan 20 - 11:41 AM
Iains 02 Jan 20 - 11:49 AM
punkfolkrocker 02 Jan 20 - 11:59 AM
Iains 02 Jan 20 - 12:12 PM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jan 20 - 01:05 PM
Iains 02 Jan 20 - 01:34 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Jan 20 - 06:52 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Jan 20 - 07:47 PM
Dave the Gnome 03 Jan 20 - 04:15 AM
Iains 03 Jan 20 - 04:32 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Jan 20 - 04:44 AM
Iains 03 Jan 20 - 05:24 AM
punkfolkrocker 03 Jan 20 - 08:46 AM
Iains 03 Jan 20 - 09:02 AM
punkfolkrocker 03 Jan 20 - 09:21 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jan 20 - 03:34 PM

I will declare a 5 minute truce to wish everyone a belated Happy New Year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jan 20 - 04:13 PM

Times up.

Yes we live in testy and testing times. Yet there is reason to be optimistic.

From my US perspective I have always looked upon England as the epitome of a more civil and polite society and language - until I read your threads.
The stereotype I have is shared by many, unless they have seen your Parliament. It is something to build on to create a weapon against fascism (again) or simply rise above the fray.


And yes wit or comedy should be allowed even if you have old farts who don't get it. Disreali comes to mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jan 20 - 04:34 PM

Actually I wish our Republican and Democrat politicians could have as civil and polite discussions as I find here recently. Excluding the turds of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jan 20 - 04:53 PM

Time for a recap of how we reached the present situation after Broken promises: Lessons from 10 years of the Blair Government in Europe.
Complete with a spiffing link so the linkless pontificator cannot accuse me of lying.

http://www.proyectos.cchs.csic.es/euroconstitution/Treaties/Library%20(Since%20June%202007/open%20europe%202007a.pdf

The article makes a complete mockery of the then Labour party position.
Fast forward to compo's clowns and the recent election has achieved the same thing.
The article also encapsulates many of the reasons why the leave vote won.
Taking back control was obviously of major importance to the majority yet ridiculed by the lefty guardianistas on this forum.
He who laughs last.............!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jan 20 - 05:19 PM

Oh, I can accuse you of lying all right. Your latest post is simply yet another pathetic attempt to divert us from the vacuous claim you made, which I reproduce here again in full:

"Now, it has already been established that invective and flame bait will achieve nothing but deletions and thread closures.

I can find thousands of posts from the lefties that give the lie to that statement. They have still not been deleted!"

Despite repeated requests, you have failed to come up with a single one of those "thousands of posts." As you know, and as I know, there are no "thousands" of such posts. And you knew that before you posted that post. Like Keith used to do, you hoped we were too thick to notice. Well you've found different. Therefore you are a liar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jan 20 - 09:11 PM

You're wasting your time with those requests, we all know he won't answer and a number of the toxic exchanges have been deleted. Your best bet is to simply ignore trolls.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 03:02 AM

We all know that lying is the new norm in politics. It is little wonder that some people on here emulate their leaders. Shame but no surprise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 04:37 AM

We all know that lying is the new norm in politics. It is little wonder that some people on here emulate their leaders. Shame but no surprise.

Compo the clown"WON THE ARGUMENT!"

Yeah right. That worked out really well. Bums on seats is the only metric to consider,
and we have more than you. Therefore what we wants, we gets!

Giddy up Brexit!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 05:13 AM

Dave the Gnome wrote: We all know that lying is the new norm in politics.
Political lying is a test that cannot be applied equally because only the winning party is in a position to keep it's manifesto promises. Boris's main promise in the last election was to get Brexit done. So far it does not look as if he will break that promise but if he did I would have thought you would be delighted.

As for the thread title, at least partly changed, if we have to discuss Broken Government Pledges we have to go back ten years or more to find examples of Labour's broken pledges. I can't be bothered to put the time in to do an academic type search, but I don't have to go to such lengths to remember

"No student tuition fees!"

Remind me, how did that one go?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 05:32 AM

Stanron, I made it quite clear in my opening post that this thread was referring to the present Johnson government and I also made it quite clear that I expected it to run for the life of this parliament.

It may have escaped the notice of some but we have had a conservative lead government for 10 years you cannot blame past failings of any labour government for any of the ills of today, sufficient time has elapsed for them to have been corrected.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 05:52 AM

You predicted that a Tory Government would break pledges. I pointed out that in the past a Labour Government broke a pledge of enormous significance. Especially to the younger voters. Funny that, seeing as how they claim to represent the younger generation.

There have been two previous Tory Prime ministers in the last ten years and Boris is the third. Same party but, perhaps, a different Government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:01 AM

Well we still blame Adam 'n' Eve for the fact that our souls start off with the stain of original sin.... ;-)

And I'll keep saying it until I'm blue in the face: politicians who utter unrealistic aspirations, or who put the best spin on things, are not lying. A better-educated electorate would sit comfortably with that. But bare-faced lying, as we see with Trump, Johnson and the far-right troll on this forum, should be called out for what it is for every single time. Letting blatant lies pass happened a lot in the election campaign as well as in the brexit campaign. It's a dangerous slippery slope.

By the way, he lied about his ability to find "thousands" of posts AFTER most of those deletions happened, SRS. Just sayin'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:04 AM

Sure, Stanron. And your Tories rapidly tripled tuition fees after a solemn pledge from the deputy prime minister that it definitely wouldn't happen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:05 AM

Typical response of "whataboutism" Stanron.

How about a comment on this.

The government has promised an increase in the national minimum wage of 6.2% which they claim is over 4 times the rate of inflation.

By the same token they have allowed the rail companies to raise prices by 2.7% which they claim is less than the rate of inflation.

So if inflation is in excess of 2.7% surely a rise in the nation minimum wage of over 4 times the rate of inflation should result in a rise of over 10.8%, not 6.2%.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:06 AM

From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 05:32 AM
Stanron, I made it quite clear in my opening post that this thread was referring to the present Johnson government and I also made it quite clear that I expected it to run for the life of this parliament.


Now that the forum has been restricted to a single thread discussing UK politics it is no longer reasonable to believe that the originator of this thread should have any control over the direction of the discussion. (in my opinion)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:07 AM

A soupçon of Labour broken promises.
Did not the bliar and broon promise a referendum on EU membership?
and promptly renege?
Tsk, Tsk
In 2005 Labour stated that it would “maintain [the] inflation target at two per cent. Last month it was 3.9 per cent.
The party also pledged to eliminate youth unemployment – it was currently running at more than 920,000 among 16-24 year olds
In n 2005 Labour made the same pledge on income tax – aiming to underpin its third successive victory. However, in 2008 Mr Darling announced a new 45p top rate of tax for those on £150,000, putting this up to 50p in 2009
Council tax, which Labour said it was “committed to reform”, and pledged to keep “under control” in 2005, has gone on rising with plans for a property revaluation in England kicked into the long grass.
Labour’s plans for a National Insurance rise from next year (which they would partly block if elected) is a “tax on jobs” and a world away from Labour’s 2005 declaration: “We want a tax regime that supports British business”.
In June 1997, at the start of New Labour’s years in power, John Prescott, the former deputy prime minister, rashly declared: “I will have failed if in five years time there are not ... far fewer journeys by car.” By June 2002, car traffic was up by seven per cent.
Mr Blair began his final term of office with a renewed zeal for major reform of the public services – with education top of his list.
However, literacy and numeracy targets for 11-year-olds, which the 2005 manifesto promised would be met, have not been hit. Nor do all children receive two hours of PE or sport per week, which the document pledged they would do by this year.
In 2005 Labour promised a “nationwide week-long summer residential programme for school students”. Nothing like this has been introduced.
The party also promised a “bigger, better” higher education system with increased public spending. However, about half of Britain’s universities will have their budgets cut this year as the sector becomes one of the first big victims of government savings.
In 2005 Labour’s “aim” was for 50 per cent of young people to go on to higher education by this year – by 2008 the figure was only 39.8 per cent – a rise of 0.6 percentage points since 2000. The 2010 manifesto promises patients a maximum 18 weeks’ wait for treatment. Laudable – until you remember that the same promise was made in the party’s 2005 manifesto and that for one in 10 patients this target has not been met. Another great Blair idea – patient choice – saw a pledge that by 2009 all women would be able to choose where they had their baby as well as what sort of pain relief. However, the National Childbirth Trust suggests this is not true for 95 per cent of women. Neither has Labour been able to do much to meet its plan to reduce health inequalities between rich and poor. 2010 targets in this area for both life expectancy and infant mortality are set to be missed.Labour’s plan for “comprehensive” out-of-hours service by GPs sounded good – until 90 per cent took up a contract to opt out of such provision. Even a relatively minor, achievable-sounding pledge, such as the 2005 promise to make fruit and vegetables part of every school meal, has not been met. By 2007, Labour said, every offender would be supervised after release.” Currently those who spend less than a year in jail are not supervised. Labour also pledged in 2005 to introduce a “non-emergency” telephone service to report crimes which was duly launched the following year using the 101 number – only to lose direct Home Office funding in 2007. An electronic borders system to track visitors to the UK was promised by 2010 – but will not be fully on-stream until 2014.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:22 AM

I find it extremely ironic that you, of all people, should use the word "Bliar."

As I was saying, an educated electorate should easily be able to distinguish between expressed, unrealistic aspirations/spin and bare-faced lies. If you publicly pledged that tuition fees will not increase, then, within months, you triple them, you lied. If you said that leaving the EU will save £350 million a week, when you know that it isn't true, you lied. Learn to spot the difference and you can then call yourself educated.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:22 AM

I repeat for those of limited understanding:

"It may have escaped the notice of some but we have had a conservative lead government for 10 years you cannot blame past failings of any labour government for any of the ills of today, sufficient time has elapsed for them to have been corrected."


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:27 AM

No more Boom and Bust?

Just before the big crash.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:35 AM

It may have escaped the notice of some but we have had a conservative lead government for 10 years you cannot blame past failings of any labour government for any of the ills of today, sufficient time has elapsed for them to have been corrected.
Economic illiteracy as usual: For lefties delectation and delight!
New analysis of official figures shows that Labour initiated PFI contracts to build 103 new hospitals between 1997 and 2010. The party proclaimed at the time of the last election it has been responsible for a "new generation" of hospitals in Britain.

The total "unitary charge" payments for these hospitals was £5.1 billion. However, many projects will not be fully paid off for more than two decades - with the last one not "completing" until 2048.

The total accumulated "unitary charge" payments for the hospitals will be £65.1 billion - meaning that only 7.8 of the total was actually paid for before Labour left office.
Costs have escalated because of rising fees and additional charges for maintenance, cleaning and catering.
According to official figures, the NHS currently pays back £1.25 billion each year - but this figure will increase until 2030 when it is expected to hit £2.3 billion.
Howsabout that then? Terrible things facts!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:38 AM

As I was saying, an educated electorate should easily be able to distinguish between expressed, unrealistic aspirations/spin and bare-faced lies. If you publicly pledged that tuition fees will not increase, then, within months, you triple them, you lied. If you said that leaving the EU will save £350 million a week, when you know that it isn't true, you lied. Learn to spot the difference and you can then call yourself educated.

Idiot!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 07:01 AM

No more boom and bust sounded like an aspiration. As did getting immigration down to the tens of thousands. Politicians "breaking promises" is time-honoured. We should take manifesto pledges as giving us the general intended sense of direction of the political party should they get into power. That is not the same thing as telling bare-faced lies. Saddam's weapons was a bare-faced lie. £350 million was a bare-faced lie. Tuition fees won't rise was a bare-faced lie. Farage's poster was a bare-faced lie by insinuation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 07:29 AM

No more boom and bust sounded like an aspiration,
Rubbish it was the cornerstone of brown's fiscal policy


May 20, 1997, speech by the chancellor to the CBI: Exploiting the British genius – the key to long-term economic success:
"Stability is necessary for our future economic success. The British economy of the future must be built not on the shifting sands of boom and bust, but on the bedrock of prudent and wise economic management for the long term. It is only these firm foundations that we can raise Britain's underlying economic performance."
April 28 1998, speech by the chancellor to the British American business council in London:
"Now it is true to say in Britain that the last forty years has been characterised by stop go, boom bust, instability in economic policy. And so I can tell you that the first objective of the new government has been the determination to ensure monetary and fiscal stability, in place of stop go, and to do so in an economy far more open than the sheltered national economics of the past."
June 10 1999, speech by the chancellor at Mansion House:
"The way forward is for governments to consciously pursue monetary and fiscal stability through setting clear objectives, establishing proper rules, and requiring openness and transparency - the new rules of the game. Particularly important for a Britain which has been more subject than most economies to the instability of boom-bust cycles and constantly changing policies.
April 5 2000, Speech by Gordon Brown to the British Chamber of Commerce national conference:
"In a global marketplace with its increased insecurities and indeed often volatility and instability national economic stability is at a premium, the precondition for all we can achieve, and no nation can secure the high levels of sustainable investment it needs without both monetary and fiscal stability together.
And it was to avoid the historic British problem - the violence of the repeated boom and bust cycles of the past - that we established the new monetary framework based on consistent rules - the symmetrical inflation target; settled well understood procedures - Bank independence; and openness and transparency. And side by side with it and as important, a new fiscal discipline with, again, clear and consistent rules - the golden rule for public spending; well understood procedures - our fiscal responsibility legislation; and a new openness and transparency
My vision is of a Britain where there is not stop go and boom bust but economic stability; a Britain which is business-friendly, and where there is enterprise, opportunity for all; a Britain which rewards the innovator and risk-taker and encourages a new generation of entrepreneurs, a Britain which because opportunity is open to all is enterprising and fair."
June 20 2001, chancellor's speech at Mansion House
"Every time in recent decades when the British economy has started to grow, Governments of both parties have taken short-term decisions which too often have created unsustainable consumer booms, let the economy get out of control and sacrificed monetary and fiscal prudence. And everyone here will remember how quickly and easily boom turned to bust in the early nineties.
March 28 2002, speech to the TGWU conference, Manufacturing matters
"With Bank of England independence, tough decisions on inflation, new fiscal rules, and hard public spending controls, we today in our country have economic stability not boom and bust, the lowest inflation in Europe, and long term interest rates - essential for businesses planning to borrow and invest - lower than for thirty five years.
This was the same laddie that gave away the gold reserves for a few cornflake packets


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 08:20 AM

More "whataboutism" going back 20 years now.

Perhaps he could employ his time better by searching out the thousands of posts that harbour invective and flamebait.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 08:26 AM

Stupid boy. The thread is about broken Govt pledges.No timeframe is specified. It is rather sill to pursue the present government, they have only been in office a couple of weeks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 08:33 AM

It's not me who is the stupid one.

The opening posts clearly indicates (or at least it does to intelligent people) that the thread is about the present government.

To date, after less than a month in power, they have already indicated they will renege on several pledges.

any sign of those thousands of posts with flame-baiting and invective yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 08:44 AM

I couldn't agree more, Raggytash.

An expressed policy is not a promise. The vicissitudes of life can make it difficult to achieve. Expressed policies are in the same league as aspirations. We can forgive if policies and aspirations have to be changed. What we should neither forgive nor forget is the bare-faced lie. It should always come back to bite the liar until he accepts that he lied and until he apologises. In the case of our resident liar, pigs might fly, I suppose. To that extent I agree with SRS.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 08:54 AM

”You're wasting your time with those requests, we all know he won't answer and a number of the toxic exchanges have been deleted. Your best bet is to simply ignore trolls.”

Wise words from a wise woman. Wise members will take heed. Some of us already have.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 09:03 AM

For the 2005 election Tony Blair promised he'd serve the full third term. Did he keep that promise?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 09:06 AM

Now that the forum has been restricted to a single thread discussing UK politics

It has not been restricted as far as I know. It is a request from the moderation team to limit the number of threads so they have less shit to shovel. If you wish to open another and have good reason I suggest you take it up with them. Maybe if the threads were not full of lies, trolling and flame bait they would have less to do anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 09:35 AM

”You're wasting your time with those requests, we all know he won't answer and a number of the toxic exchanges have been deleted. Your best bet is to simply ignore trolls.”
Good to see the least expression of a counter narrative to the cabal is
classified as lies, trolling and flame bait and frequently deleted.
It simply confirms publicly that political moderation is alive and well on mudcat.

As requested:
You can sort through them I have far better things to do

Raggedytash posts 5,765 ( your contribution is miniscule)
The Gnome posts 22,675
Shaw posts 23,952
The backwood prof. of scatology posts 7,638
He who must not be mentioned posts 30,000
An example to wet the palate , so to speak:

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 06 Apr 17 - 05:27 PM
What a bloody prick you are. I post or not post whenever I want, and you do not get to jump to conclusions about my views from that. It's lucky for you that I don't tell you what I really think about you a damn sight more often than I do, you arrogant little turd. If I were you I wouldn't read anything at all into the fact that I hold back....

I must say you lefties are the height of charm when taken to task!

Why was the post above not deleted?

Oh but that would be a level playing field and we cannot have that!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 09:39 AM

Tell us the thread and let's see the context. And listing total posts does not give the information you've repeatedly been asked for. More dishonesty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 10:05 AM

Steve, that quoted post was not in reply to the lying, mendacious creep we are dealing with now.

It was in reply to another lying, mendacious, deceitful bastard who used to infest this forum, nothing to do with the man above or any of his posts.

Like you said more dishonesty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 10:43 AM

It really is dead simple. If you don't want posts to be deleted keep them relevant and civil. Some will slip through the net as the moderators can only do so much but not 'thousands' as stated. Other posts that may be deleted are those discussiong moderation policy or those posted to simply cause trouble.

I keep posting this link but it feels like I am banging my head against a brick wall. It is worth reading.

Etiquette & Advice


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 11:21 AM

From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 09:06 AM
Now that the forum has been restricted to a single thread discussing UK politics
It has not been restricted as far as I know. It is a request from the moderation team to limit the number of threads so they have less shit to shovel.


From the 'Brexit' thread:
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Dec 19 -
There are TOO MANY UK POLITICAL THREADS GOING on this American folk and blues music site. These things repel users and the fighting bleeds into other threads. Constrain yourselves to one thread.


That reads to me as an instruction, not a request. You may think differently.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 11:41 AM

Whoever the "Iains" poster is today - your posts are too long and detailed
to be bothered with reading them..

I [and probably other readers] simply don't have that much spare time when catching up on this thread...

Same goes for any othe poster indulging in such lengthy copy n pastes...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 11:49 AM

A distraction: They still do not get it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0DQGys7cMs


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 11:59 AM

Iains - it's a new year, and and a step into a hopefully less divisive and more amicable future..

Any chance of the sensible, interesting, occasionally helpful, version of the "Iains" persona reappearing sometime soonish...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 12:12 PM

PFR more than happy to oblige when the cabal desist from their constant sniping. Regrettably if I do not provide chapter and verse I am accused of lying. This makes it difficult to shrink the subject matter on occasions.
I see Boris has hit the ground running, according to Guido(the man with his ear to the ground in Westminster.)
He is casting his beady eye on the machinations of the supreme court and the boundary Commission. Hopefully he will then investigate accusations of collusion with the EU by the likes of Corbyn et al. This would also include the alleged help of the EU in drafting the Ben Bill.
There is much meat to chew off those bones I suspect, and would fit well with the proposed revision of the treason bill.
We will hope these are promises that will be honoured in their entirety.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 01:05 PM

You may think differently.

I know differently. The constraint is on the methods, not the subject matter. If you start a political thread and manage to keep it clean, it will stay open.

Good luck with that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 01:34 PM

The Corbyn I referred to above is of course Bercow. My apologies.

As far as compo and Labour are concerned:
"When your enemy is in the process of destroying himself, stay out of his way." -Sun Tzu


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 06:52 PM

You are lying because you made a claim for which there is NO chapter and verse. The thousands of posts don't exist and they never did. I'm sorry for being boring here, but this man should not be allowed to absolve himself from telling lies via frequent and varied attempts at diversion. Either he comes clean and admits that he was making things up or we should accept absolutely nothing that he says from now on, ever, even when he's "trying to be nice."


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jan 20 - 07:47 PM

Back at you too, Stanron. Nice to see you breaking a New Year's resolution on the 2nd. Perhaps you'd like to tell us the last time either you or your extreme right-wing mate, about whom you never utter an adverse word, was "nice" on this forum. Birds of a feather, I suppose.

My bigger point is, on topic, that a culture has developed in politics in which blatant lying is passed by, excused and exonerated. That's very worrying, and unchallenged lying, as is routinely practised in Russia and China, is a direct assault on democracy. You keep the people politically ignorant then you lie to them. It happens now in America and it happened, bigtime, in both the referendum campaign and in the last election campaign. I'm not talking about "breaking promises." I'm talking about bare-faced lying of the £350 million type, the immigration poster type and, earlier, the tuition fees type. The number of times I heard Johnson or Gove, among others, lying to camera and not being properly challenged was staggering. Now we have a man on this forum who is trying to cash in on that same culture. Well I for one am not up for letting that go, thanks. If that means you don't think I'm very nice, Stanron, well I can tell you that I won't be crying into my pillow tonight. Choose your friends more carefully would be good advice to you, lest you be tarred...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 04:15 AM

Once again, if the advice on the Mudcat FAQ is followed, there should not be a problem. Don't respond to trolls. Don't rise to flame bait.

Steve, the lies are as obvious as the wind ups. Everyone knows it. A one liner is fine and remind people if necessary but repeated responses only feed his craving for attention. Not responding makes it obvious where the problem really lies.

Workingtonman (is it Pete?) Don't go. We need your measured and sane input! Without it there will be fewer people trying to stop the swing to the right that is plaguing the rest of society.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 04:32 AM

Workington man. Without knowing your political affiliation it is hard to recommend a blog. Despite the abuse Guido Fawkes receives on this forum, on things political, he is often before the MSM when it comes to breaking news, Each of his postings has comprehensive contributions from his readers. They are mainly brexit supporters but also include a few remainers. Guido polices his contributors rigorously.
The slog(by Mr Ward) is also largely political but has far fewer remarks than Guido.
I tend to get my sources from all over, from Russia Today to the Guardian. I am of no particular political persuasion I am ruled more by facts than ideology.
I am sure others here could point you to many other political blogs that encourage contributions.
I have to say that any political discussion on this forum is promptly hijacked by the bullying cabal and rational argument drowned out in a sea of abuse. This is a shame as the membership crosses all parties and affiliations and hold widely divergent views.
Please stay around and voice your opinions. The more the merrier in my view. I hope you have some success in your search.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 04:44 AM

Unreal. :-)

You're quite right, Dave. I've had a temporary splurge following Iains' despicable bout of lying. I've also petitioned a moderator pretty intensely to do the sensible thing and remove his membership. I've been given wacky and unconvincing reasons why they haven't done it. So from now on he's a non-person.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 05:24 AM

An online petition shared by Mr Corbyn's brother Piers is urging him to reverse his decision to resign and has gathered more than 13,000 signatures already. This is despite him taking the country to its worst election result since 1935. His shadow home secretary(who would be in charge of the police) has just had her son charged with 11 offences, nine assaults including biting a policemen, one count of racially aggravated criminal damage, and one count of exposure.
In other news a yougov poll shows Half of Britons want the BBC licence fee scrapped and would like the broadcaster to adopt a commercial model and make its money through advertisements - like ITV and Channel 5 - or subscriptions. It was also revealed that chief adviser Dominic Cummings could lead a review of the BBC’s funding. (Watch out BBC)
Cummins has, in a 3,000 word blog, put the call out for a new generation of non-humanities graduates to move into the offices of power and launch a seismic hiring scheme to sweep away the cobwebs of Whitehall. Bring us your tired, your poor, your weirdos and misfits… Bring it on, I say

As Émile Coué de la Châtaigneraie would say "Tous les jours à tous points de vue je vais de mieux en mieux"


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 08:46 AM

"put the call out for a new generation of non-humanities graduates to move into the offices of power"

Funny that... back in the early 80s at our Polytechnic Campus / Halls of Residence
the non humanities students tended to be at worst openly racist thatcherite thugs...

Who were fully intent on gaining as much power as they could seize in their apiring career paths...

[if i recall one on the wannabe lawyers was sectioned after a particularly violent episode...]

The Humanities students like my mrs tended to be just normal average well balanced young people
[with a small minority of middle class kids flirting with socialist worker party membership...]
following up their A levels in History and English lit and suchlike...

They tended towards caring and creative professions...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 09:02 AM

PFR of course you can provide copious statistics to back up your rather wild claims?
Others would dispute your allegations

https://thefederalist.com/2015/06/02/the-liberal-arts-are-dead-long-live-stem/
Engineering students, for example, attend an essential core set of courses that includes calculus, physics, and chemistry. Should we assume that English majors still peruse Shakespeare and Chaucer? Probably not. Do philosophy majors read Aristotle, David Hume, or Friedrich Nietzsche any more? Do sociologists study Plato, Voltaire, or James Madison? etc.
Stem students deal in facts, not ideology (or at least most of us do)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 09:21 AM

"wild claims..."...????????????????

Iains - did I say my quick post was anything more than an anecdotal recollection
of my own experience 40 years ago...

Yeah.. asking for statistics on that is a bit of a pointless request...
But if you want facts...

The town and country planning students I knew were fairly conservative,
though amiable enough blokes to have a pint and party with..
The crazy violent Law student was a much feared sociopath known as "Jock"...

That'll have to do for your research needs...


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