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BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread

Steve Shaw 30 Dec 19 - 07:28 PM
Iains 31 Dec 19 - 02:02 AM
DMcG 31 Dec 19 - 03:57 AM
Big Al Whittle 31 Dec 19 - 03:57 AM
Iains 31 Dec 19 - 04:58 AM
Steve Shaw 31 Dec 19 - 05:14 AM
Bonzo3legs 31 Dec 19 - 05:28 AM
DMcG 31 Dec 19 - 05:31 AM
Steve Shaw 31 Dec 19 - 05:33 AM
Dave the Gnome 31 Dec 19 - 05:37 AM
DMcG 31 Dec 19 - 05:44 AM
Dave the Gnome 31 Dec 19 - 06:01 AM
Raggytash 31 Dec 19 - 06:23 AM
Stanron 31 Dec 19 - 06:40 AM
Rain Dog 31 Dec 19 - 06:42 AM
Dave the Gnome 31 Dec 19 - 07:19 AM
Raggytash 31 Dec 19 - 07:28 AM
Steve Shaw 31 Dec 19 - 07:31 AM
Big Al Whittle 31 Dec 19 - 07:43 AM
Rain Dog 31 Dec 19 - 08:01 AM
Stanron 31 Dec 19 - 08:44 AM
Steve Shaw 31 Dec 19 - 10:38 AM
Stanron 31 Dec 19 - 11:35 AM
Iains 31 Dec 19 - 12:09 PM
punkfolkrocker 31 Dec 19 - 12:41 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Dec 19 - 12:46 PM
punkfolkrocker 31 Dec 19 - 01:02 PM
Stilly River Sage 31 Dec 19 - 01:12 PM
Iains 31 Dec 19 - 01:33 PM
Raggytash 31 Dec 19 - 01:49 PM
Backwoodsman 31 Dec 19 - 02:06 PM
punkfolkrocker 31 Dec 19 - 02:09 PM
Raggytash 31 Dec 19 - 02:13 PM
Iains 31 Dec 19 - 05:23 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Dec 19 - 05:28 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Dec 19 - 05:30 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Dec 19 - 05:32 PM
Stanron 31 Dec 19 - 05:35 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Dec 19 - 05:51 PM
Mossback 31 Dec 19 - 05:52 PM
Backwoodsman 31 Dec 19 - 05:58 PM
Stanron 31 Dec 19 - 06:29 PM
Dave the Gnome 31 Dec 19 - 06:37 PM
Raggytash 31 Dec 19 - 06:38 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Dec 19 - 06:47 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Dec 19 - 08:49 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Dec 19 - 08:51 PM
Stanron 31 Dec 19 - 08:57 PM
Backwoodsman 01 Jan 20 - 03:13 AM
Workingtonman 01 Jan 20 - 03:03 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 07:28 PM

We can ignore him, and generally we do try to, but he must substantiate his claim that he can find thousands of those posts, and give us chapter and verse. It was a scurrilous and unsupportable attack on decent people by a very indecent man, and we shouldn't let it pass without his corroboration. Shades of Keith lying about those two historians, when he tried to tell us that Geoffrey Wheatcroft had described AJP Taylor and Alan Clark as vulgar and fraudulent when Wheatcroft had written no such thing (it's still there on the Guardian website). I'm bloody sick of politicians thinking they can get away with throwaway lies, both here and in the US, and I worry about the culture that's being allowed to set in, and I'm damned if I'm going to let this fellow get away with trying it on here. So I want a list, minimum, of those thousands of posts, and we shouldn't let him proceed any further here until he delivers just that. If that means not ignoring him for a bit, so be it. Don't worry, I'm not turning into a Jim!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 02:02 AM

Oh Dear oh dear!
The leftards are not taking their nightmare before Chrissie very well. Are they?

Good training for their next nightmare. Trying to find a leader in the new year! Compo is a class act to follow. By any metric he was an abject failure.
Luvvin it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 03:57 AM

I take you point, Backswoodsman, that I am unwilling to ignore anyone completely, though I do ignore posts that are rants.

But there is a real issue in ignoring people and I think this rant of against us has a lot of truth in it. Ignoring people can end up just making us feel better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 03:57 AM

Who won the election?

I think it may turn out ultimately that Corbyn's five quid trots won.
Boris is such a tit that he will undoubtedly bring the ultimate (and much longed for by Marxists) revolution several steps closer.

And they will tell you in Northern Ireland and Beirut, violent revolution is fun, fun fun....


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 04:58 AM

In view of the video posted above that contains some very real self evident truths let us consider some of the posts below. There are many hundreds to choose from, but I can't be arsed to find them all and it clutters up the thread. The selection is so wrong in content it can only be considered as flamebait.

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 04:47 AM
Well I suppose that the breakdown by party would be helpful to party leaderships in informing them of the general sentiment among their supporters. The reason I raised it was in order to counter the oft-made claim that most Labour-held seats ("in Labour's working class northern heartlands," etc) voted leave. Statistically correct, but if you say it, whilst neglecting to say that most Labour voters in those constituencies voted remain, you're being a bit of a scoundrel, aren't you?

Above Conjecture Below Fact
Labour's 'red wall' of seats crumbled and turned blue in this General Election as voters rejected Jeremy Corbyn and delivered him a humiliating defeat.
The Tories snatched Labour seats across the industrial heartlands of the Midlands and north of England - many of them for the first time - as Brexit-supporting communities backed Boris Johnson.

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 06:11 AM
"We may disagree with the decision many leavers made based on cynical false claims and disinformation,
but accept they did it for what they believed at the time were positive reasons for the benefit of us all..
It's clear many now regret that decision."


Yeah! Right on!       The reality

326 seats needed to win
UK results Conservative 365 Labour 203 SNP 48         LD 11 DUP 8 Others 15
More absolute garbage from the same post:
. Ignorance and racism led to the leave victory. Anything else is just indulging stupidity.

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 02:45 AM
The leavers are fully aware that the majority would almost certainly vote to stay if they were given an opportunity to re-confirm their decision - there can be no other possible reason for not allowing a second vote

We just had one.Leave won again


Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 05:18 AM
The whole point of BrexShit is to benefit the wealthy and powerful - they started it, they’ve driven it, and they’re still driving it, aided and abetted by The Nicotine-Stained Frog, The Blond Buffoon, The Lying Scottish Viper, Jake Rich-Mong, and supported by their brown-nose, working-class mucky-toffs on this thread and elsewhere.
Everything to do with their wealth, SFA to do with benefitting the rest of the people of the U.K.

Insults versus reality, Who won that argument?

From: David Carter (UK) - PM
Date: 23 Apr 19 - 04:18 AM
Note that there is no question of Farage's party "winning the European elections" as some of the more fanciful headlines in the sewer press have said. They are not standing in nearly enough seats to do that.


Above pure delusion. Below fact
Party Brexit Party 29 seats Libdem 16 Labour 10

The list goes on and on. A tiny minority here think they represent the UK. In fact the majority of the voting public heartily rejected everything that the minority on here constantly bang on about. The recent election demonstrated that most clearly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:14 AM

Another stupid and pointless post from the bloke who claims he can find that list of thousands...

Whilst I share Mr Pie's frustration (though I reacted with a lot less anger and a lot more resignation myself), I can't agree that there's much truth in his rather emotional analysis.    There's no doubt in my mind that large numbers voted leave because they were uninformed, misinformed or simply didn't have a clue what they were voting about. I've spoken to many leave voters since 2016 and have heard the plethora of vox pops that the BBC misleadingly peddles to us in the guise of "news." In terms of politics the electorate is uneducated, which leaves them vulnerable to lowest-common-denominator propaganda. And the worst of that was racist, and enough suckers fell for it to swing the result. And it's untrue that "the country voted to leave."

Sorry for the off-topic response but I wanted to express disagreement with the point you made. At least I think I'm doing it civilly!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:28 AM

Iains - the lefty pefties are having a bad time, great fun isn't it!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:31 AM

Yes, the Pie video is over emotional, but that is his comic style. Occasionally you can see interviews with the actor behind the Pie persona, and he is, as you would imagine, much calmer and more rational. And I agree the statement about voting for Brexit twice is at the very least debatable, if not outright false.

But there is an underlying truth that refusing to engage with people, or only engaging to insult them, is not a very effective strategy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:33 AM

Well we'll soon see how Boris will have to ditch his promises when economic events overtake him. "The blind workings of the market" will see to that. Being blind, they'll pay no heed to his handsome shock of Trump hair or of his dashing, sexy, trim figure, I assure you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:37 AM

Just who are this "tiny minority here think they represent the UK"? I certainly don't think any such thing. I doubt if Steve or Backwoodsman think they represent the UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:44 AM

One of the interesting things over the next year will be this separate bill on workers' rights. That will be a real Scylla and Charybdis to write. Every right that is left out threatens a future hold on the red wall, every right that is included risks losing the free market supporters. A classic one, which I have referred to before, is the regulations on maternity leave which Martin Cannanan denounced in Brussels as an example of a regulation that should be scrapped as it is a barrier to employment. To be fair, it does put quite a high cost on businesses, so it is an example of where a decision needs to be made about trading off the interests of the two parties. What actually is decided over the next year will reveal quite a lot about the future.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 06:01 AM

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-case-for-professors-of-stupidity?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Posted without comment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 06:23 AM

I don't see any flaming just people's personal opinions, there is nothing inflammatory in any of the posts listed.

Incidentally 13,966,565 people voted for the party which said it was definitely going to leave. At least 15,297,879 people voted for parties who said they either would remain for give a second vote.

That is not inflammatory that is fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 06:40 AM

Re Dave the Gnome's post of Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:44 AM

quote;

He went on to make one of his most famous observations, that the “fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”

Exactly whose side are you on?

Admittedly remainers express doubt regarding Brexit, but don't you see that doubt expressed with undeniable certainty?

This blade cuts both ways.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Rain Dog
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 06:42 AM

Steve Shaw posted "In terms of politics the electorate is uneducated, which leaves them vulnerable to lowest-common-denominator propaganda."

Was that just for this election or all the previous elections as well?

It is the nature of the beast.

Happy New Year to you all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 07:19 AM

I am certainly full of doubt, Stanron. I do not consider myself to be wholly right on any political or economic view. I doubt if anyone else is wholly right either. On brexit I have often said that seeing as the country was split almost in two, there should have been a compromise. I am willing to give Boris a fair chance even though I think his policies will be bad for us. In both circumstances I sincerely hope that I am wrong in my primary assessment. I posted the link without comment so it could not be said to be aimed at anyone in particular. But if anyone is so certain that their viewpoint is the only true one, I do hope that they recognise themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 07:28 AM

Incidentally 13,966,565 represents about 21% of the total population. A little over 1 in 5.

They do not necessarily speak for the other 79% of the population.

Thus they cannot claim to be the people's voice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 07:31 AM

I was referring to the referendum, not an election. Many of the same considerations apply to both, though the fundamental difference is that we were handing over a crucial and irreversible decision to an unqualified electorate. In an election we are choosing the people who we want to make the big decisions, and the result of an election is ultimately reversible. In addition, the issues at stake in elections are multifarious.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 07:43 AM

If its any reassurance Dave. I agree. I don't think you're right either.

happy new year!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Rain Dog
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 08:01 AM

Well I am not a fan of referendums myself. Was it an unqualified electorate back in 1975 when, according to the reasoning of some of you here, only 43.35% voted to remain in the EU?

I was not old enough to vote in the '75 referendum. I did vote remain in the last one. We will have to wait and see what lies ahead for us all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 08:44 AM

Rain Dog wrote: Well I am not a fan of referendums myself. Was it an unqualified electorate back in 1975 when, according to the reasoning of some of you here, only 43.35% voted to remain in the EU?

I was not old enough to vote in the '75 referendum. I did vote remain in the last one. We will have to wait and see what lies ahead for us all.
I was old enough and I did vote to remain in the Common Market. I did not vote to join a hierachical and democratically deficient United States of Europe.

The architects of that dismal construct made sure that no-one ever got to vote on that until it was all done and dusted. That is why I, and, I suspect many others like me, took the last referendum as a chance to say 'No' for the first time. All this business about being lied to in the referendum campaign overlooks the fact that an awful lot of people clearly remembered not having the opportunity to say 'No' to the treaty of Maastricht and the treaty of Lisbon. Posters on the side of buses played no part in that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 10:38 AM

Yes, Stanron, but your side insisted that we'd voted to leave the single market and customs union, when we'd done no such thing (well they weren't on MY ballot paper...) and in most people's cases probably didn't even know what they are. You are being very selective. In every political system that I I've known about, changes are proposed and take place down the years and decades and I for one don't want to vote on every one of them, if on any at all. I didn't agree with the '75 referendum either but at least there was a significant majority for the status quo. A simple requirement for one vote over the 50% to bring in an irrevocable change, with no minimum turnout requirement, is a complete outrage. The trouble that Cameron's hubris-ridden referendum caused, nowt to do with Europe and everything to do with keeping his backwoods backbenchers and UKIP at bay, was inevitable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 11:35 AM

Well Steve Shaw, in view of Dave the Gnome's post of Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:44 AM

quote;

He went on to make one of his most famous observations, that the “fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”

It's nice to see we are both so certain. I guess that makes us equally stupid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 12:09 PM

Queen Anne and a grateful nation gifted Blenheim Palace to the 1st Duke of Marlborough for his great victory at the Battle of Blenheim in 1704 that stopped european empire building in it's tracks.

I wonder what a very grateful nation should give the highly esteemed Mr. Farage for an even greater victory over EU hegemony?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 12:41 PM

In 1975 I was too young to vote, though started studying British Constitution, Govt & Politics, and Law
at 6th Form College...
But more importantly, I was far too busy trying to lose my virginity to care much about any referendums..

However, now I do think it's a bit too unfair on the current and next younger generations
that a loud minority of old folks harbouring resentments going back more than 40 years
have decided so dogmatically on the future fate of our nation...


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 12:46 PM

He can find "thousands of posts," etc, yet, when challenged to produce them he comes up with just four, not one of which even remotely makes the point which he was pathetically trying to make, and that was after he tried to make up cod statistics based on nothing at all to prove that there must have been at least three thousand. We always knew that we have here a bullshitter par excellence, but now he's proven that he's not just a bullshitter but also a liar. Johnson won an election on the backs of lies which went insufficiently challenged. Let's not allow the same mistake here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 01:02 PM

Lies, deception, shifting the blame to innocents, thuggish bullying,
getting rich from shady dealings,
are so gangsta..

They are modern virtues, characteristics of strength,
that appeal
to the voters of such outrageous rogues as Boris and Trump...

Nice guys are put on this planet to be exploited and destroyed..


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 01:12 PM

I wonder what a very grateful nation should give the highly esteemed Mr. Farage for an even greater victory over EU hegemony?

An all-expense paid lifetime membership in Hell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 01:33 PM

An all-expense paid lifetime membership in Hell.

You demonstrate yet again a total lack of understanding of UK politics.
My stance represents the jubilant majority. That is how Mr Farage won the majority of seats in the EU parliament and Labour lost to tory in their red heartlands.
Telling everyone they are racist and stupid really worked well! Did it not.
I believe the deplorables gave the democrats a drubbing as well.
From my standpoint your respective electioneering techniques must be encouraged. It is only right to encourage losers(to lose again)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 01:49 PM

One thing I do find, slightly, consoling is that some of us expect the situation in the UK to take a turn for the worse.

Thus, some of us are lucky enough to be able to plan ahead for the inevitable maelstrom that will fall upon us, some of us expect it.

Some of us.

However, there are many, many people who will I feel be greatly shocked, and financially much worse off in the not too distant future and I have serious concerns about these people.

But, I know I shouldn't, but I sincerely hope that the vocal proponents of Brexit on here are the one's who suffer most.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 02:06 PM

New Year’s Resolution time, folks.

I recommend something along the lines of, “I will not rise to the bait laid by the forum’s Extreme-Right-Wing-Plant or any of his newly-found acolytes”.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 02:09 PM

Raggy - I'd like to ready myself as a survivalist prepper..
But I lack any military training,
am getting a bit too old and slow to learn how to kill a mob of scavenging food raiders..
in self defence..
.. aint even watched enough Bear Grylls on the telly to know the right animal poos to suck on for water...

So we'd better hope Boris don't fuck up our future....


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 02:13 PM

Going back to the title of the thread there is a timely reminder of just how trustworthy conservative election promises are worth.

In 2015 the conservative government promised that the national living wage would be £9 per hour, yesterday they announced they would make much needed changes to the national living wage. However this is still fall short of the figure promised in 2015.

Failure to reach that promise equates to about £1600 per annum to those worst off in out society.

An absolute disgrace.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/31/government-misses-minimum-wage-target-set-by-tories-in-2015


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:23 PM

Yes, Stanron, but your side insisted that we'd voted to leave the single market and customs union, when we'd done no such thing

A fortnight before the referendum in 2016, then Prime Minister David Cameron said during an interview:

    “The British public would be voting if we leave would be to leave the EU and leave the single market."

If leaving the single market leaving the customs union occurs as well.
Terrible things facts!

From the UK government leaflet dropped through every door:(project Fear on steroids)
The Government believes that voting to remain in the European Union is the best decision for the UK
If the UK voted to leave the EU, the resulting economic shock would put pressure on the value of the pound, which would risk higher prices of some household goods and damage living standards.Losing our full access to the EU’s Single Market would make exporting to Europe harder and increase costs.

Despite "call me Dave's" antileave leaflet the majority voted leave.
They confirmed that choice in the recent election.
The entire leaflet was created by remainiacs including Cameron.
Must have been a nasty shock for him when the British public gave him two fingers in the ballot box. I wonder if Bojo cleared enough vermin out of his party to keep brexit on track?


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:28 PM

"You demonstrate yet again a total lack of understanding of UK politics."

SRS shows more understanding of UK politics than you could ever show in a million years. Time and time again here you have demonstrated utter ignorance, bigotry, racism and vacuous triumphalism that marks you out as a complete moron. Sadly for you, you are just about the only person here who doesn't recognise your lack of decent values. You are a far-right put-up job and you tell lie after lie. Your latest one is the one about those thousands of posts you claimed you could find. You've been asked about this again and again and have failed to produce a single one. The fact that you continue to display your ignorance here so shamelessly also demonstrates that you have no dignity. What a loser.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:30 PM

"You demonstrate yet again a total lack of understanding of UK politics."

SRS shows more understanding of UK politics than you could ever show in a million years (you've just demonstrated this yet again in the post above this). Time and time again here you have demonstrated utter ignorance, bigotry, racism and vacuous triumphalism that marks you out as a complete moron. Sadly for you, you are just about the only person here who doesn't recognise your lack of decent values. You are a far-right put-up job and you tell lie after lie. Your latest one is the one about those thousands of posts you claimed you could find. You've been asked about this again and again and have failed to produce a single one. The fact that you continue to display your ignorance here so shamelessly also demonstrates that you have no dignity. What a loser.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:32 PM

Apologies for the double. I thought it had gone into the ether.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:35 PM

Iains wrote:
A fortnight before the referendum in 2016, then Prime Minister David Cameron said during an interview:

    “The British public would be voting if we leave would be to leave the EU and leave the single market."
I remember too. That paragon of political impartiality, Andrew Neil, showed a series of videos of Politicians, Heads of Industry and Bankers all saying the same thing to remainers who made the 'we weren't told' argument. Water off a duck's back.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:51 PM

The fact is that the vast majority of the electorate didn't have a clue as to what the single market or customs union are. You can tell me until you're blue in the face that the public actively voted for something they knew little or nothing about, but I'll call you a liar. Don't believe me? Go down the pub and ask your mates what the single market and customs union are. Maybe then you'll stop deluding yourself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Mossback
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:52 PM

Hullo, Steve -

For the New Year I recommend you forswear turd-wrestling.

I extend the same suggestion to others in re; the current Turd Triumvirate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:58 PM

Seconded.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 06:29 PM

I'd like to offer to everyone who has contributed to this thread, scatalogically challenged or not, a happy and prosperous new year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 06:37 PM

Yes, a happy and healthy new year to everyone. Even Iains! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 06:38 PM

Just as a little reality check to end the year, it would seem that "taking back control" may not extend to the UK fishing fleet (or the bits that the people who own the fishing rights have not sold off the overseas fleets)

An interesting article in todays Guardian and what will in all likelihood actually happen.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/31/the-guardian-view-on-brexits-fishy-tale-we-will-need-friends-at-sea

Take back control ...….. yeah Right!


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 06:47 PM

Point taken, Bill and John. But I feel there's one thing that we still have to do. Laissez-faire is one thing, and I applaud it. But letting a discussion forum go to hell in a handcart just so that an insulting maniac can be given his head seems like a step too far to me. I might have to kowtow, but not via a New Year's resolution.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 08:49 PM

Incidentally,

"That paragon of political impartiality, Andrew Neil..."

Are you blind? Neil was chairman of the Federation of Conservative Students in Scotland. He worked as a researcher for the Tories. He was the editor of Murdoch's Sunday Times for over ten years. He worked for Murdoch with Sky, where he was the founding chairman. He worked for the Daily Mail and for the Barclay brothers. He supported the invasion of Afghanistan and the invasion of Iraq. He supported the US invasion of Grenada. He supported the installation of American nuclear weapons in UK military bases. He is a climate change denier. He employed the Holocaust denier, David Irving to work for his paper.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 08:51 PM

(Sent that last one prematurely by accident). If that's your idea of a paragon of impartiality, then I feel sorry for you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 08:57 PM

Happy New Year


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jan 20 - 03:13 AM

I think, I hope, that Stan was 'havin' a larff' with his quip about Neill being a 'paragon of political impartiality, Steve.

I hope so. Despite our differences of view, I regard Stan as one of the 'relatively good guys' from The Dark Side - one who is capable of making a meaningful argument, even if it is presented in a somewhat gruff, abrasive manner sometimes (we're all capable of being gruff and abrasive, aren't we?). I'd really hate to see him go down the 'Iains' route of non-discussion and provocative flame-baiting.

Happy New Year to everyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Workingtonman
Date: 01 Jan 20 - 03:03 PM

Round here I can't see much evidence of any jubilation. Obviously (as ever) the overwhelming bulk of the Tory vote is mainly older voters who are so lost in Daily Mail land they couldn't vote any other way. Some of the the few people i have spoken to who have changed their vote and have swapped outright condemnation of the rigged, elitist system to vote for Boris Johnson seem unsure, a little thoughtful and even embarrassed about whether they will get any of the promised benefits of more Tories or Brexit


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