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BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts

keberoxu 23 Nov 19 - 04:35 PM
ChanteyLass 23 Nov 19 - 08:08 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Nov 19 - 08:09 PM
Joe Offer 23 Nov 19 - 08:45 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Nov 19 - 05:30 AM
keberoxu 25 Nov 19 - 01:01 PM
Steve Shaw 25 Nov 19 - 04:16 PM
Donuel 25 Nov 19 - 04:48 PM
keberoxu 25 Nov 19 - 05:07 PM
Donuel 25 Nov 19 - 05:19 PM
robomatic 25 Nov 19 - 11:42 PM
Donuel 27 Nov 19 - 06:34 AM
Mossback 27 Nov 19 - 11:15 AM
keberoxu 28 Nov 19 - 05:06 PM
ChanteyLass 28 Nov 19 - 08:09 PM
Doug Chadwick 29 Nov 19 - 07:21 PM
Mossback 29 Nov 19 - 08:26 PM
Mr Red 01 Dec 19 - 04:51 AM
Bill D 01 Dec 19 - 08:00 PM
Mr Red 02 Dec 19 - 09:50 AM
Donuel 02 Dec 19 - 10:42 AM
ollaimh 03 Dec 19 - 06:02 PM
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Subject: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 04:35 PM

The Massachusetts location of what, centuries ago, was
the 'Plimoth Plantation,'
makes a big deal out of Thanksgiving every year, with a November parade.


This year is the, what, quadricentennial
of 1696 and the Mayflower and Plymouth Rock and so on.


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 08:08 PM

The Mayflower II is at Mystic Seaport Museum's shipyard where it has been undergoing a restoration. Anyone who plans to celebrate this Thanksgiving in Plymouth will find much to do there, but if you want to see this replica ship you must go to southeastern Connecticut. Most of the work has been completed and she's back in the water (Mystic River) while she's being rigged.


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 08:09 PM

I live an hour from those famous steps in Plymouth. You should never have gone. Just look what happened: hundreds of years of what you thought was civilisation (don't mention slavery and segregation...) and you end up with Donald Trump...


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 08:45 PM

...and YOU end up with Boris Johnson. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Nov 19 - 05:30 AM

Only because you got Trump first.


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 01:01 PM

Thanksgiving Day is forecast to be
bitterly cold and blustery with wind, this year.


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 04:16 PM

Well don't eat too much turkey with all the trimmings and you'll avoid the wind.


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Subject: RE: Gambling for survival by the 1st immigrants
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 04:48 PM

Thanksgiving is based on the Foxboro Casino Indians teaching the fragile immigrant white people how to survive gambling over thw harsh winters. Over time white people learned how to make more money than they need and dominate many Indian tribes. This true message for all Americans serves as a commercial for the beggining of Xmas excess.


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 05:07 PM

The casino. Well,
it's true that the Foxwoods Resort Casino is associated with the
Mashantucket (Western) Pequot Tribal Nation from the Algonquin-language American Indians.
They're in Connecticut, not Massachusetts.


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 05:19 PM

Given your time frame even the Algonquins were immigrants in the land of grapes by the east ocean.

Buses still leave daily full of Foxwood prey from Plymouth and Boston.


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 11:42 PM

Don'l reminded me of a great Simpson episode where Homer flees to a South Sea Island and is mistaken for a minister who is supposed to put up a church. Instead Homer, praying to God and Jebus, leads the indigenout people in putting together a casino, and he leaves them for a time so they can settle in on their own. When he returns, the casino is in ruins and the people are destitutes. As their leader protests to Homer: "How can ACE be high card AND low card? What kind of a god would allow that?"


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 06:34 AM

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2019/11/26/thanksgiving-play-larissa-fasthorse


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: Mossback
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 11:15 AM

Things Every Non-Native Should Do On Thanksgiving

By Brittany Wong
11/26/2019


The antidote to feel-good history is not feel-bad history, but honest and inclusive history,” sociologist James W. Loewen writes in “Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong.”

The feel-good history most of us have learned about Thanksgiving depicts grateful Pilgrims breaking bread with Indigenous people. The honest, inclusive truth is a lot more complicated than that. Indeed, so much of Indigenous peoples’ history is a footnote in textbooks: the forced relocation to reservations and the territorial land-grab by European settlers, the nationwide genocide of Native people and the ongoing ramifications of that history for them today.

Being an ally to Native Americans begins with knowing all of this (and so much more). As Thanksgiving approaches, we asked a number of Indigenous educators and activists to share what non-Natives need to know to be a good ally ? and what actionable steps we can take to actually make a difference. (Keep in mind, this is a beginner’s list; advocating for change and uplifting the voices of marginalized people requires a lot more action than this. Still, understanding the real history of Indigenous people in the U.S. is a great first step.)

***Learn about the Wampanoag tribe and their real relationship with the Pilgrims.

Of all the Native American communities whose distinct histories are worth knowing about, the Wampanoag tribe should be at the top of your list. Why? The Wampanoags were the tribe the Pilgrims met when they arrived near Plymouth Colony as a particularly rough, unforgiving fall and winter set in.

Though it’s overstated in most American history textbooks, the Wampanoag and Pilgrims formed a tentative alliance; the former showed the new arrivals how to farm New England’s soil and, in return, the colonizers supplied the tribe with European weapons to fight their rivals, the Narragansett.

But what’s forgotten or ignored in the Thanksgiving narrative in most textbooks is this: The pilgrims could only settle at Plymouth because thousands of Native Americans, including Wampanoags, had been killed by disease brought by earlier European ships settlers. That, in turn, cleared much of the area of its Native population so the Pilgrims could set up shop.

“Being that they are the tribes who encountered the Pilgrims and whom this fairy tale holiday is based on, it’s important that we listen to Wampanoag voices of protest and follow their lead,” said Matt Remle, the co-editor of Last Real Indians and co-founder of Mazaska Talks.

***Understand why Thanksgiving is a “National Day of Mourning” for so many. (Then, explain it to your family.)

Following the Wampanoag’s lead starts with learning about the “National Day of Mourning.” Since 1970, the Wampanoag and other tribes in the New England region have hosted a gathering on Thanksgiving Day at Plymouth Rock to recognize the holiday’s authentic history. They also recognize the subsequent, nation-wide racial genocide that occurred between the settlers and the tribes whose territories they encroached on, and ongoing assaults on Native culture and religion.

“On this day, the Wampanoag are joined by other Native peoples and non-Natives, to state that, ‘Thanksgiving Day is a time to remember the genocide of millions of Native people, the theft of Native lands, and the relentless assault on Native culture,’” Remle said.

To honor their efforts a bit closer to home, Remle suggests supporting the efforts of tribes where you live. “Get to know them, their history, and support them in whatever efforts they are engaged in,” he said.

And on Thanksgiving Day, talk about all of this at the dinner table with your family. (Yes, even with your “PC culture”-hating uncle.) Avoid relaying the information in a way that’s condescending; frame it as an open dialogue, but also a necessary, vital conversation to understanding how our country was formed: “Hey, food for thought: let’s consider the other perspective on what this holiday represents.”


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 05:06 PM

Yes, Chantey Lass,
I don't know the dates, but the Mayflower II
plans a voyage to Boston Harbor
in which she will dock next to
Old Ironsides,
the USS Constitution.

That will certainly bring out the sight-seers.


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 08:09 PM

Yes, that'll be spectacular!


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 07:21 PM

This year is the, what, quadricentennial
of 1696 and the Mayflower and Plymouth Rock and so on.


???
Whatever took place in 1696 happened 323 years ago, not 400. The Mayflower Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock in December 1620 so next year, not this year, will be the quadricentennial.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: Mossback
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 08:26 PM

The math is just about as accurate as the "Thanksgiving" fairy-tale, Doug.


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Dec 19 - 04:51 AM

Anyone give a thought to why "Plymouth"?

The Mayflower, so the story goes, only put in to Plymouth UK for the sister ship to affect repairs. Though I have heard versions that have it pick up more "bretheren". The Mayflower was registered/built in Harwich, Essex UK. Its captain was a local.

Harwich, Mayflower

as if to underline the connection Harwich, Massachusetts is just round the corner from Plymouth Rock.

Wiki on Mayflower (which refers to a word I have never seen before, a ship's shallop)


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Dec 19 - 08:00 PM

The restoration of the Mayflower2 is documented in detail here. Absolutely fascinating!

The funny thing is, I had just the other day been browsing an old National Geographic magazine (Sept. 1964) about the trip, and had done a search and found the Mystic site. Was going to post, but Kerberoxu beat me to it. Then, I dug in the old pile of Nat Geos and found the May 1964 issue about building the ship and planning the trip attempt!

Lots of photos of the 1964 trip and many pages of technical stuff about what it required.


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 09:50 AM

I have been on the Mathew, an allegedly full sized replica, which is probably nearer ¾ size. The disappointment was that it had a diesel engine at the front. I asked where the prop-shaft was and was told it was an hydraulic transmission.
https://matthew.co.uk/
https://www.heritage.nf.ca/articles/exploration/matthew.php


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 10:42 AM

infected rat Urine
killed half the Mayflower passengers that first winter.


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Subject: RE: BS: 400 Years in Plymouth, Massachusetts
From: ollaimh
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 06:02 PM

thanksgiving , he celebration of the british genocide in north america started by far right wing religious fundamentalist-fanatics. trump and boris are just symptoms of the world wide permanent warfare capitalist states that are destroying the viability of life on earth.


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