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BS: UK General election December 12 2019

Dave the Gnome 29 Nov 19 - 03:50 PM
Backwoodsman 29 Nov 19 - 03:17 PM
punkfolkrocker 29 Nov 19 - 03:11 PM
Backwoodsman 29 Nov 19 - 03:00 PM
Iains 29 Nov 19 - 12:58 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Nov 19 - 11:28 AM
punkfolkrocker 29 Nov 19 - 11:01 AM
Dave the Gnome 29 Nov 19 - 10:20 AM
punkfolkrocker 29 Nov 19 - 10:04 AM
Iains 29 Nov 19 - 09:52 AM
Allan Conn 29 Nov 19 - 06:19 AM
Backwoodsman 29 Nov 19 - 06:18 AM
Steve Shaw 29 Nov 19 - 05:21 AM
Backwoodsman 29 Nov 19 - 04:07 AM
Big Al Whittle 29 Nov 19 - 03:53 AM
Iains 29 Nov 19 - 03:49 AM
Backwoodsman 29 Nov 19 - 03:31 AM
The Sandman 28 Nov 19 - 04:28 PM
Backwoodsman 28 Nov 19 - 01:15 PM
DMcG 28 Nov 19 - 12:31 PM
Backwoodsman 28 Nov 19 - 07:37 AM
Backwoodsman 28 Nov 19 - 07:27 AM
Iains 27 Nov 19 - 03:03 PM
David Carter (UK) 27 Nov 19 - 02:33 PM
peteaberdeen 27 Nov 19 - 02:17 PM
Steve Shaw 27 Nov 19 - 02:10 PM
Backwoodsman 27 Nov 19 - 01:34 PM
punkfolkrocker 27 Nov 19 - 11:23 AM
Big Al Whittle 27 Nov 19 - 11:15 AM
peteaberdeen 27 Nov 19 - 10:13 AM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Nov 19 - 09:25 AM
punkfolkrocker 27 Nov 19 - 09:00 AM
Big Al Whittle 27 Nov 19 - 08:38 AM
DMcG 27 Nov 19 - 08:04 AM
punkfolkrocker 27 Nov 19 - 07:59 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Nov 19 - 07:46 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Nov 19 - 07:46 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Nov 19 - 07:44 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Nov 19 - 07:41 AM
Iains 27 Nov 19 - 07:41 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Nov 19 - 07:37 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Nov 19 - 07:34 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Nov 19 - 07:27 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Nov 19 - 07:24 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Nov 19 - 07:11 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Nov 19 - 07:11 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Nov 19 - 07:08 AM
Big Al Whittle 27 Nov 19 - 07:02 AM
punkfolkrocker 27 Nov 19 - 06:49 AM
Big Al Whittle 27 Nov 19 - 06:41 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 03:50 PM

Someone I know commented that when you see Bozza and his old man together you can easily figure out how to spell Pinocchio. There are two "C"s

:-D


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 03:17 PM

LOL! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 03:11 PM

Little pfr is deeply offended that you should associate cocks with that family...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 03:00 PM

So The Craven Cowardly Blond Buffoon sent his Pater to stick up for him on breakfast TV this morning. And the Old Block the Chip came off was true to family-form - when it was suggested that a lot of people were comparing Johnson Jr. to Pinocchio, Pater remarked that the majority of British people were so illiterate that they wouldn’t even be able to spell ‘Pinocchio’.

An arrogant cock who begat an arrogant cock.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 12:58 PM

Of course the landowner benefits hugely from tree planting.
Successful applicants will get paid up to £6,800 per hectare (ha) if they are using this item to create new woodland.
Subject to eligibility, a supporting maintenance grant of £200 per hectare for 10 years may also be available.
A much better business model than upland sheep farming.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 11:28 AM

Red oak

Giant redwood (not the Tory "man with no nipples" I hasten to add)

Ash (Sarkar)

Western red cedar

Rhododendron (think about it...)

Thornberry (our Em)

Dawn "Butler" redwood

Chamaecyparis (Shami...geddit?)

Hazel (Blears)

Gwyneth Dunwoody...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 11:01 AM

Has guido sorted out a list of left wing trees that need discrediting and uprooting...
Or are all trees suspect and open for felling until proven sufficiently right wing...

I was reading an article last night that the Cedar might even be too extreme neo n@zi for Texas...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 10:20 AM

We need trees high up on valley sides where they can absorb the rainfall before it floods the streams and rivers below. I think it would be a good measure of who we should vote for it we gave each candidate a couple of saplings and a shovel. Then send them up a Yorkshire or Cumbrian hill to plant trees. Whoever does best after the trees are established wins :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 10:04 AM

I can't remember the details, but in the last couple of years it was reported that one nation [African ?]
declared a national tree planting day when every citizen joined in...

That's the sort of mass scale celebration event that could feasably be organized
once a year...

Perhaps even guido worshippers could be encouraged to quit being so malicious for just one day,
and take part in such a happy event to help save the planet by planting trees...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 09:52 AM

Labour staff are getting a P45 for Christmas:

Labour is facing huge cutbacks, to “way smaller” levels than before the election. Guido understands the party’s headcount is being cut from 700 to 300 staff members, with whole departments being shut down, including the party’s 100 person strong call centre.

That’s the trouble with socialists, they eventually run out of other people’s money…


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Allan Conn
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 06:19 AM

Re the tree planting thing the same idea is being mentioned on FB suggesting the numbers are so large that it would be impossible to physically have the time to plant so many trees. However if you look at the numbers as to what is happening now it seems that it is possible.

Labour want to see 300 million trees being planted over their first 5 years in office. This amounts to 60 million per year but it includes what is already being planted by the devolved administrations. Scotland alone planted 22 million trees last year! So that is one of the four UK nations whose population amounts to less than 9% of the total is already planting 36% of what the total annual target is under Labour for their first five years. So Labour's plans for their first administration aren't really that impossible as far as time goes. Surely if Scotland can plant about 4 trees per person every year - then the UK as a whole can plant what would be nearer 1 tree per person per year?? After that for the next five years it would need to be about 140 million per year to get to the 1 billion by 2030 which still only amounts to between 2 and 3 trees per person per year. Then it would reduce to a minimum 100 million per year between 2030 and 2040.

As to the space for the trees well I am sure once they got nearer the planned forestry extent then they could adjust. Though here in Scotland it is not all positive to be fair and where forestry is going to be and how it is done can be an issue as Iains suggests. Here in the Borders the Buccleuch Estate has been accused of pushing smallholders off the land to enable it to be sold for forestry.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 06:18 AM

Just wait for reports that the latest YouGov poll shows ‘Boris Johnson easily won the Climate-Change Leaders’ Debate last night’...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 05:21 AM

Intelligent voters know that exaggerated plans in manifestos are a time-honoured thing. Intelligent voters see manifestos as aspirations giving them the general sense of direction the party hopes to follow. Intelligent voters know that circumstances can and do scupper some manifesto dreams. Actual lying comes in the particular details, for example telling us that they are planning an extra 50,000 nurses when they mean 31,000, or 40 new hospitals when they mean six, or that we'll be better off by £500 per annum each when they mean £85. They are outright deliberate lies. It's good that manifestos are scrutinised for costings, but in my opinion the IFS got it wrong yesterday when they excoriated both major parties for their unrealistic costings. No-one with half a brain expects a party to be able to predict even in the biggest ball park what money they'll need over five years. What we want to see is the big picture when it comes to their plans for improving the lot of all of the people of this country, which means, among other things, looking after our NHS, schools, infrastructure and the elderly and disabled and raising taxes to pay for it all from the people and companies who can most afford to pay them. As for planting trees, the trees in my garden plant themselves so bloody quickly (assisted by jays and squirrels) that I can't keep up with controlling them. Now there's a thing. Who needs people to do it! Whoever thinks that planting a tree always requires a chap with a spade and a bit of manure in a sack and a carefully-nurtured nursery-reared sapling clearly doesn't know much about nature.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 04:07 AM

I do have to say, looking at things from a Tory POV, that they are being very sensible keeping The Blond Buffoon away from any kind of debate because, as they are acutely aware, his huffing, puffing, blustering, arm-waving, and talking through his considerably-more-than-ample arse would be very likely to lose them more votes than it would gain them.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 03:53 AM

As its been established beyond peradventure, that both sides are lying their heads off, will either side accept the result?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 03:49 AM

Labour has announced a plan to plant 2 billion trees over the next 20 years. The BBC describes this as “ambitious”. Guido has been doing some sums.

    This would mean more than 270,000 trees being planted every day for 20 years.
    Assuming a 7-hour working day that is over 600 trees a minute.
    That would require 20,000 people planting trees.
    If each tree requires a planting density of say 10 square metres per tree, that is 10,000 trees per square kilometre, so 27 square kilometres-a-day, that is foresting an area the size of Exeter every day for 20 years.
    After 20 years some 9.5% of the UK land surface would have to been forested.

The surface area of Britain is 209,331,000,00m², given 13% of Britain is already forest, that means Labour’s tree planting would result in nearly 23% of Britain being forest. Roughly 70% of Britain is currently agricultural land and the remaining 7% of the country is urbanised for human habitation. Looks like Labour’s 150,000 homes a year pledge will actually have to be treehouses…


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 03:31 AM

Daddy Johnson on TV this morning, defending his son’s craven cowardice in refusing to appear on the Channel 4 Climate Change Leaders’ Debate programme, and sending The Little Scottish Viper instead.

Channel 4 declined having TLSV on, and ‘empty-chaired’ The Craven Coward with a block of ice. Good for them!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 04:28 PM

According to paddy power themselve they got things wrong 3 times in 2016 on brexit on leicester city winning the premier league and on trump1.
The 2016 US Election

Following on from a flood of allegations against Donald Trump arising from what he said on a tour bus show years ago, we thought the billionaires’ campaign was over and decided to take action.

A week before the election we paid out Hilary Clinton being the next president of the United States, meaning any customer who backed Hilary got their money early. This $1 million pay-out got a lot of attention and ended up back firing in spectacular fashion.

Trump started the election campaign as massive 100/1 outsider (November 2012-June 2015) but saw his odds freefall to as short as 13/8 (May 2016) at one point but revelations halted his momentum and caused his chances of victory to plummet like the value of sterling, resulting in chunky odds of 9/2 (representing a 18.2 per cent chance of winning, as of October 20).

Throughout this time Paddy Power punters piled into The Donald and availed of some serious chunky prices.

With Hilary backers already paid up the morning of the election was a dark one on the trading floor of Power Tower as the total loss for the US election came to $4.5million.
iains do not count your chickens you mightlose yoir eggs


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 01:15 PM

Very true, DMcG!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 12:31 PM

I would not worry too much about that date., BWM. It was at around that time that Corbyn met with "the IRA" and no one has ever let the fact it is so long bother them.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 07:37 AM

Just noticed that article refers to comments he made in 1995 - Mea Culpa, Hail Mary Mother of God!

Doesn't change the fact that it tells us a very great deal about the man and his attitudes.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 07:27 AM

Johnson now turning his attention away from 'tank-topped bum-boys', 'letter-boxes', and 'picanninies with water-melon smiles', and on to 'ill-raised, ignorant, aggressive, and illegitimate' children of 'uppity and irresponsible' single mothers.

SFA by way of policies (other than the misleading 'Get Brexit Done' mantra he uses to brainwash the feeble-minded), why in the name of all that's holy would any decent, thinking, self-respecting person vote Conservative?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 03:03 PM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
        Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 02:10 PM
See 07.41AM.


I do appreciate your attempts to increase my audience. There really is no need though.
Meanwhile the Labour wrecks continue. Not exactly "whisky galore" though,is it? But like the film, Mr Plod will be involved!

Plymouth City Council have reported the odd behaviour of Plymouth Labour Officer Baz Ahmed to the police and the Electoral Commission after his posting of pictures of postal ballots was reported by Guido. Neighbouring MP Johnny Mercer has also said he will be informing the police.
Full details from Guido, of course!
https://order-order.com/2019/11/27/plymouth-city-council-refer-postal-vote-questions-police-electoral-commission/


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 02:33 PM

I think now that some form of partition is becoming inevitable.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 02:17 PM

bwm - interesting read, thanks. but the way things are going is very depressing. for a time where i work (workington) there seems a lot of hostility to labour and a more generalised distrust of anyone taking a more thoughtful, balanced view from the tory media line. easy talk of traitors, remoaners etc readily leads to hostility. we could move - if we could sell the house. what's happened to us - it doesn't feel that long since the opening ceremony to the london olympics but the mood is very different now, and scary


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 02:10 PM

The irony comment wasn't aimed at you, Al. See 07.41AM.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 01:34 PM

Leon Rosselson asking a very valid question here, and giving some equally valid answers.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 11:23 AM

Al - well can you come up with a better Labour leader who the right wing media
won't attack and discredit without mercy...???

.. perhaps another Old Etonian running Labour from the inside
as a proxy puppet for the tory establishment...???


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019 Look
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 11:15 AM

Yes probably I'm missing the irony.


Anyway - if you are more in touch with modern society than i am - we will see soon enough. I hope you are right.

The trot is a lifelong friend. He's been saying it for the last forty years,..... at least.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 10:13 AM

al - 'i can remember one of the trots' becomes 'that's where their heads are at' a couple of lines later.

1. you can remember when exactly?
2. can you confirm it was just one trot you were speaking to?
3. are you sure s/he wasn't exaggerating for supposed comic effect?
4. going from this past to the present what evidence is there that 'trots' are having any major influence in current labour policy?
5. when do you think the tories and their wealthy friends will tire of repeating their old 'reds under the bed' scare tactics?
6. do you think it is possible that they are doing this to distract from the inequalities and chaos caused by the tories and particularly the ERG and chums who now rule since the slightly less extreme members and ministers have left?
7. really, who would you rather trust to run the country relatively fairly and sensibly?

i'm writing as someone who has always been left and a socialist - michael foot, tony benn and the current leadership i can support. i have been a trot before and now believe that we have drifted so far to the right that a major redirection is well overdue. to try and restore some fairness and decency to our country - to restore our public services and save the planet.
we have a leaflet from our tory candidate today - just rubbishing labour and our spending plans. no mention of a single tory policy.

these lies and smears and evasions are not any sort of way to run a party or the country.

i'm despairing at the fact that a sizeable minority of our country have been cheated and manipulated in such a cynical way that they no longer have hope that a better way is possible. they are probably right - we either smash the tories (still a bit trotty!) or we are doomed.

8. as a general thing - would folk rather we went along usa lines or to try and get back to being a mature and properly functioning european state?.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 09:25 AM

The effort to brand moderate and sensible policies as far left extremism seems to have taken in an awful lot of people. The link Dave gave a few posts back at 7:11 to a piece from a Norwegian perspective puts it well - here's a quote from it:

Mr Corbyn’s policy-platform, particularly in regard to his domestic policies are largely identical with the Norwegian Labour Party manifesto. Railway nationalisation, partial or full state ownership of key companies or sectors, universal healthcare provisions, state-funded house-building, no tuition fee education, education grants and loans to name but a few, enjoy near universal support among the Norwegian electorate, in fact, they are so mainstream that not even the most right-wing of Norwegian political parties would challenge them.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 09:00 AM

All I know about 'trots' is the packet of imodium I just got through...

It seems the only folk I ever hear uttering the words 'communist' 'trots' 'stalinism'.. etc...

.. are right wingers obsessed with the paranoid hysteria they are still living in a 1950s cold war...

I've never been a labour party member,
so stand to be corrected if they all call each other comrade,
while swigging vodka, making molotovs, and singing red army marching songs...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 08:38 AM

I can remember one of the trots saying to me, tories and labour....it like a choice between clap and vd. Only communism will sort out this country.
That's where their heads are at.

Still - either you're right, or I am.

We'll soon find out.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 08:04 AM

The NHS is not a single object to be sold or not sold. It is a composite that can be sold over time in various ways, such as by extension of patent times which is in the documents, or reducing services in a way that obliges people to go private.

I came across a BMI Healthcare article which starts "Almost two thirds (65%) of people on Britain are not aware that some medical procedures are no longer available to them on the NHS'. (The only reason I don't link to it is that it is is basically a sales pitch for private healthcare.) But there are others: 17 "unnecessary procedures" were dropped by NHS England in June 2018. And so on. If there was some tiny corner tiny corner kept as free at the point of use (and after all, you can make the case that private health insurance is as well) does not mean the rest of the NHS has not been sold.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:59 AM

Iains is trying his best,
but what this thread needs is the highest level of anti-labour bonkers nonsense
that only dear old Keith could bring to us...

He must be so frustrated not to be alive and posting at mudcat right now...

Lifes so unfair like that...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:46 AM

‘Greased Albino Piglet’ is the name given to him by his fellow Eton pupils. Nothing to do with the left reverting to type’, everything to do with nasty toffs.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:46 AM

Amazing how some people are so unaware of their own irony, innit! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:44 AM

I agree about God-botherers. What especially stinks about the latest effusions from them is the sheer partiality of their comments. They might as well stand on a soapbox and shout to the world that we should all vote Tory. For a lying, incompetent, misogynistic, homophobic, morally-lax, racist Trump-puppet. They don't deserve the platform they're privileged to have merely by dint of believing in fairies and they certainly shouldn't be abusing it in the way they're currently doing.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:41 AM

No problem Steve - so good, it definitely bears reading again!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:41 AM

Continual reference to greased albino piglets shows the left reverting to type. Nothing sensible to say so resort to insults. As pathetic as car crash compo.
It must be past time to send him off to the accompaniment of Red sails in the sunset. His car crash is mutating into a train wreck of epic proportions! Not even Casey Jones could save him now.

https://order-order.com/2019/11/27/corbyns-redacted-negotiation-documents-dont-mention-nhs/


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:37 AM

Ah, shit, John, and I'd read it as well! I thought I'd seen some of her sayings somewhere before...Old age, mate! Sorry.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:34 AM

Callaghan's election defeat was down to the fact that he made the cardinal error of not calling the election before the winter, when most of us expected he would and should have. Instead, we had rubbish piling up and bodies unburied all in a freezing cold winter (struggled to get my first-born home from the maternity hospital on New Year's Eve through the snow and spent hours shovelling snow out of an old lady's unfelted loft the same evening). Then we had crisis, what crisis (yes, I know...) as he stepped off a plane. Then there were dodgy on-off dealings with the ever-murky, ever-Tory, ever-opportunistic, ever morally-expedient (as they still are). In the NUT we had spent years in the seventies fighting Labour education cuts, massive class sizes and compulsory transfers of teachers. Don't blame working people for losing elections, ever.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:27 AM

And God-botherers should keep out of our politics. Religion and politics are an especially toxic mix.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:24 AM

I posted Julia Bard’s piece yesterday, Steve! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:11 AM

Arrgh, apologies for that unattributed extract: thought I'd hit the preview button but I hadn't. It was from a piece in the London Economic by Julia Bard, who is Jewish. It says precisely what I think so I'll let it speak for itself.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:11 AM

The right wing press have certainly worked their magic on you, Al. Things have moved so far to the right you see anyone left of Ghengis Khan as a communist.

Try a piece of sensible reporting for a change.

Jeremy Corbyn - A mainstream social democrat


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:08 AM

Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis, who claims without any basis, to speak for British Jews, has attacked the Labour Party yet again. In a deliberate attempt to undermine the Labour Party’s announcements of wide-ranging strategies to support minorities who have suffered so badly under the Tories, and using terminology that has historically been associated with the extreme right, he claims that “a new poison” has taken hold of the party.


This General Election is a two-way fight. To attack Labour is to promote a Tory Party that has formal links with far-right, openly antisemitic, anti-Islamic, anti-Roma and anti-refugee groups and parties in Europe, such as the Polish Law & Justice Party, Victor Orbán in Hungary, the Sweden Democrats and others.

Our own Conservative party is led by a person who unashamedly and unapologetically uses racist and homophobic language. He has referred to black people as “piccanninies with water melon smiles”, to Muslim women as resembling “letter boxes” and “bank robbers”. He has ridiculed gay men as “bum boys in tank tops”. And the Tory Party in government has inflicted untold damage on the lives and futures of members of minority communities through the Hostile Environment and the Windrush scandal.


Mirvis is not a neutral commentator: he is a close friend of the previous Conservative Prime Minister, who he invited for dinner with her husband the night before she took office. Though he claims to be challenging racism, he has never, to my knowledge, joined Jewish anti-racists on demonstrations alongside other vulnerable groups challenging the frightening rise of all forms of racism, including antisemitism, that we have seen over the last few years.

He writes as though Jews are a people apart from everyone else, rather than celebrating our part in the fabric of a wonderfully diverse society, living, working and campaigning alongside and in solidarity with others. Instead of representing the majority of Jews who use and often work in the public services on which we all depend, he throws in his lot with the Tories who have wreaked such destruction on our NHS, our schools, our welfare system and the infrastructure of our country.

He has not been elected by anyone. He represents one branch of religious Judaism – Britain’s 62 Orthodox synagogues. He does not speak for Jews who are more religious or less religious than him, or not religious at all. Many thousands of us are members and supporters of the Labour Party precisely because of its determination to heal the rifts that have been created by an increasingly extreme Conservative Party. Labour’s politics are predicated on the need to encourage, respect and value everyone, and particularly to support black and minority ethnic people, who have to navigate a system that demoralises and undermines them throughout their lives.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:02 AM

PFR - the leopard can't change its spots.

The trots see their purpose in life as dicking about and keeping Labour in opposition - so they are unencumbered with the practical considerations.

They have such fun.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 06:49 AM

Oh yes.. the past.. learning from history is one thing,
but over-dwelling on it aint much use
in 2019,
the internet age of political disinformation and ruthlessly more effective divide and rule...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 06:41 AM

Nevertheless some Labour leaders succeeded.

I can remember an old series on TV called The Defenders about a father and son , defence counsel team in America.

E. G. Marshall played the father.

One week he had this argument with his son, who was raging about some flagrant injustice.
EG said - Its no use screaming at the law's injustice. The law is a machine, you must engage with it. Take it on , on its own terms.

I feel the same about these left wing Labour leaders...Foot, Kinnock, and now Corbyn.
They don't engage with politics - they just prat about.

Wilson, Smith, Blair....you could actually smell the tory fear.

You notice - I left out Callaghan. Whose election defeat was almost entirely due to the very people who are Corbyn's mates. Callaghan never got to make a single electioneering speech - they disrupted every single Labour meeting.

They brought in 18 years of tory rule and Mrs Thatcher. I think they will achieve something of the same next month.

Its okay. But the people at the bottom of society suffer under tory rule. Its serious stuff - and if you're taste is for histronic fucking about, rather than the acqisition of power - you have your champion.


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