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The current state of folk music in UK

Raggytash 13 Nov 19 - 02:06 PM
r.padgett 13 Nov 19 - 02:02 PM
Dave the Gnome 13 Nov 19 - 01:51 PM
GUEST 13 Nov 19 - 01:50 PM
Jim Carroll 13 Nov 19 - 01:27 PM
Dave the Gnome 13 Nov 19 - 01:16 PM
Jim Carroll 13 Nov 19 - 01:09 PM
Dave the Gnome 13 Nov 19 - 12:54 PM
punkfolkrocker 13 Nov 19 - 12:42 PM
GUEST,jag 13 Nov 19 - 12:29 PM
Jim Carroll 13 Nov 19 - 12:01 PM
r.padgett 13 Nov 19 - 11:41 AM
Big Al Whittle 13 Nov 19 - 11:21 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Nov 19 - 09:43 AM
punkfolkrocker 13 Nov 19 - 09:39 AM
r.padgett 13 Nov 19 - 09:35 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Nov 19 - 09:33 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Nov 19 - 09:24 AM
punkfolkrocker 13 Nov 19 - 09:09 AM
punkfolkrocker 13 Nov 19 - 08:49 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Nov 19 - 08:20 AM
punkfolkrocker 13 Nov 19 - 07:53 AM
GUEST,Jack Campin 13 Nov 19 - 07:49 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Nov 19 - 07:47 AM
punkfolkrocker 13 Nov 19 - 07:43 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Nov 19 - 07:39 AM
punkfolkrocker 13 Nov 19 - 07:33 AM
punkfolkrocker 13 Nov 19 - 07:23 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Nov 19 - 07:12 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Nov 19 - 06:58 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Nov 19 - 06:51 AM
punkfolkrocker 13 Nov 19 - 05:57 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Nov 19 - 05:39 AM
punkfolkrocker 13 Nov 19 - 05:18 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Nov 19 - 04:16 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Nov 19 - 03:31 AM
r.padgett 13 Nov 19 - 02:50 AM
Steve Gardham 12 Nov 19 - 04:55 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Nov 19 - 01:55 PM
Steve Gardham 12 Nov 19 - 01:25 PM
Dave the Gnome 12 Nov 19 - 12:57 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Nov 19 - 12:24 PM
r.padgett 12 Nov 19 - 12:04 PM
Jim Carroll 12 Nov 19 - 11:45 AM
GUEST,Brian Peters 12 Nov 19 - 11:41 AM
Dave the Gnome 12 Nov 19 - 09:56 AM
Steve Gardham 12 Nov 19 - 09:40 AM
Steve Gardham 12 Nov 19 - 09:33 AM
punkfolkrocker 12 Nov 19 - 09:20 AM
r.padgett 12 Nov 19 - 09:13 AM
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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 02:06 PM

I was driving through Miltown Malbay yesterday and I found a pair of rose-tinted blinkers, does anyone know who may have lost them?


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 02:02 PM

With respect it is Jim who has got this constant need to go back to the definition he prefers of "folk song" and no matter what sensible way anyone tries Jim will try to trip up people who do not agree that life has moved on and folk song definition is not what he still wants it be!

No point carrying on this thread as according to Jim the title is a misnomer Or perhaps WE are all out of step and not answering the question (as he sees it) gawd 'elp us


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 01:51 PM

Just who is using the term folk song if it is not the folk clubs then?


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 01:50 PM

".so we both now accept that the internet is the future of folk preservation and passing on..."
Fuck all of the kind.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 01:27 PM

" it just petulance that makes you keep harping on about them then?"
You are not responding to what I am saying Dave - I've long got used to that
I AM SAYING THAT THE DISHONESTY OF USING THE TERM "FOLK SONG" IN THE WAY IT IS BEING MISUSED IS DAMAGING THE PEOPLE'S MUSIC AND HELPING SILENCE THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE
I really can't put it more plainly than that
Jim


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 01:16 PM

But, but, but...

I'm not interested in the Club scene any more - I'm beyond caring about that

Is it just petulance that makes you keep harping on about them then?


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 01:09 PM

""
How many times do I have to repeat this Dave
Because the sharp practice being carried oty by clubs using the term folk is endangering the future of folk song
It doesn't matter that I now no longer visit them - I and thousands like me stopped doing this because we felt we were being conned - you are telling me I have no right to demand folk songs when I go to a folk club
Out of the mouths of babes.....
This gets utterly ridiculous
"Kitchens, travellers vans and fires. No?"
??????????????????
Jim


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 12:54 PM

Jim, if you are not interested in folk clubs, why are you so scathing as to how they are run? You freely admit you do not visit them. You now say you are not interested in them but you repeatedly tell us they are shit. Why is that?


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 12:42 PM

"I'm not interested in the Club scene any more - I'm beyond caring about that, but I am interestierd in preserving and passing on folk music,"

hold on a sec.. that's worth repeating...

"I'm not interested in the Club scene any more - I'm beyond caring about that, but I am interestierd in preserving and passing on folk music,"...

Jim - Right then.. WE... me and you are just about in total agreement...

I've never really been interested in folk clubs...

..so we both now accept that the internet is the future of folk preservation and passing on...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,jag
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 12:29 PM

...goes against the philosophy of all public performances.
If that's your attitude stay at home and sing in your kitchens"


I don't get this I thought 'traditional singers' were the ones who learned their songs in the family and in their communities. Kitchens, travellers vans and fires. No?


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 12:01 PM

"Why do you feel that your definitions should prescribe folk music for us?|"
You do that by referring to yourself as folk - if that's not what you are doing you are not only conning your audience but you are damaging the music/song
Surely you can see that ?
You wouldn't sell apples and call them potatoes - why on earth should you call something folk and and then sell something else
I'm not interested in the Club scene any more - I'm beyond caring about that, but I am interestierd in preserving and passing on folk music, which I beliebve to ve an extremely important part of our (working people's) culture and history

"folk" is for performers, by and large and not for punters
THat is arrogant and elitist Ray and goes against the philosophy of all public performances
If that's your attitude stay at home and sing in your kitchens - please read what I've just written to Al
At least we are at last getting to what has gone wrong with the folk song scene
When MacColl said folk music would die when it fell into the hands of people who didn't like it or care about it I told him I thought that would never happen
You arwe proving me wrong - it has happened
Jim


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 11:41 AM

Jim ~ folk music as it was in the old days of thriving folk clubs was a different animal than it is today ~ audiences/customers and floor singers and guests are no longer "separate" entities ~ the life blood is in those who attend and more often than not attenders at sessions where paying guests are not actually needed ~ the audience do not pay and there are no "Stars" as such

Simply put currently "folk" is for performers, by and large and not for punters ~ the scene is complex and will and does differ ~ the thrust here is to look at how the more traditional scene is and how people would like it to be

Ray


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 11:21 AM

The point is Jim that you don't seem to grasp the function that folk clubs perform for us, and what we regard as folk music.

Why do you feel that your definitions should prescribe folk music for us?

You say that you want to make folk music available to future generations. Okay, you've told us where it is, If we want it, we'll know where to look.

Mean while, this generation has its own story to tell. And theres quite enough negativity for young songwriters, instrumentalists and dancers without theminence gris of the folk world pitching in.

I don't know why you stopped a thread about you either. The snatches of info you have revealed about yourself have been intriguing - I'm sure a lot of people would have been interested.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 09:43 AM

" for pities sake Jim, please, you are a total pain!"
Still doesn't answer the points I am making Ray - perhaps your pain is self-inflicted
Jim


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 09:39 AM

Jim - I seriouly need some sleep..

but, before I do.. I think you've got the wrong end of the stick again..
..actually I'm pretty certain of it..

"Interesting ~ possibly indicative of the need for folksong to be integrated into main stream acoustic music to survive in concert clubs??"

It seems obvious to everyone else, that Ray was posing a question referring to the guest list over 20 years
of one specific acoustic club way off on the somerset coast..

It is founded as an Acoustic Club - but the organisers seem to have been sneaking in real Folk guest artists,
to entertain and test out the general acoustic membership.
This appears to be a strategy that is working positively for folk.
Folk is being introduced in a positive way to a mainstream acoustic club membership...

So now that has been cleared up for you,
what's your complaint now going to be about that...

right I'm definitely off for a much needed sleep now...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 09:35 AM

"Interesting ~ possibly indicative of the need for folksong to be integrated into main stream acoustic music to survive in concert clubs??

~ traditional song unless packaged will be squeezed out, maybe ~

certainly folk festivals tend to still cater more for traditional song, yet presenting more contemporary artists in the trad style"

This was my quote above ~ note the concert clubs and the double question marks, please

Once again I fell I am being constructive and commenting on the title question as above ~ as to how I find the scene is currently ~ for pities sake Jim, please, you are a total pain!

Ray


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 09:33 AM

Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 05:39 AM

...the gold we spun has been turned to shit...

Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 08:20 AM

...Nobody is knocking any kind of music here...


Can you genuinely not see how saying the music you like has been turned to shit is knocking modern music? I saw your first statement as being very disparaging of what happens in today's folk clubs. Does 'turned to shit' mean something else to you?


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 09:24 AM

"Jim - It's getting hard to make out who you are talking to,"
I'll talk to anybody who listens PFR
Folk must be struggling to survive if the folk scene no longer knows what it is; how can it possibly be otherwise ?

I was brought back here by the statement
"possibly indicative of the need for folksong to be integrated into main stream acoustic music"
THat it totally irrelevant if it doesn't mean tying it to a dying industry - what else does "mainstream" man
I've described the structure, function and origins of folk song (as documented)
If my analysis is wrong then it's up to those who think that say where
All this shadow boxing is getting nowhere
How can a music that cannot be defined possibly be "healthy"?
I know what it is, many thousands like me used to know what it is, if it has become something else - what has it become ?
Jim


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 09:09 AM

.. I suppose I could have extended that metphor to..

"Some folks don't like either mash or chips.. fair enough..
Rice and pasta are good too..
Just as long as nobody thinks everybody should only eat raw spuds
with muck from the field still on 'em..."...


ooh.. A packet of Smash anyone...??? aahhh the 1970s...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 08:49 AM

Jim - It's getting hard to make out who you are talking to,
and what you are trying to get at..???

I said your idea of the predatory music industry is outdated..
That dreaded music industry as you remeber it, is struggling to survive..

I didn't say folk is struggling to survive..

I don't think it's as unhealthy as you do..

To the best of my memory, nobody here has said "folk is no longer relevant"...???

I don't see it in your combative terms of folk versus other forms of music...

I like mash potato, and I like chips..
A nice treat is to have both on the same plate smothered in gravy and chilli sauce..

That's my metphor for today..

now I'm off for a mid day kip...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 08:20 AM

"Jim. You have said in the past that you no longer listen to modern music as it all sounds the same to you"
I'm not dismissive of it Dave - I say it has nothing to do with the folk scene
"What's left of it is struggling to survive..."
Than to put folk song into that situation would be like taking the passengers out of the lifeboats and putting them back on the Titanic
What's your point ?
Folk song has entertained people more or less up to the end of the 20th century in Britain
If you believe it no longer can - but you need to stop calling what is happening on the scene 'folk' to give future generations a chance to get the pleasure out of it that we did
Nobody is knocking any kind of music here (except those who say folk is no longer relevant)
All music genres would die if you started replacing it with something else because you no longer like it
That's simple logic
Jim


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 07:53 AM

Jim - For all practical purposes,
there is fair enough support system in place for 'folk' right now..
That is without doubt..

It might not be your ideal of folk.. but...

One thing for sure is neither of us can come back in 30 or 40 years
to check out how well folk music is surviving...

..and as men in my family don't make it to 70,
I'd rather spend my unknown time left trying to be positive...
Despite all the negativity foes and friends alike throw at us..


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 07:49 AM

A lot of us were also at the same time listening to and involved with folk music...
There was far more inter related crossover than you will ever recognise and give credit...


A friend of mine was also well into the punk scene from the start. He figured that much of that generation ended up as world music aficionados - his way of resolving the dialectic was to set up a samba-punk fusion band.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 07:47 AM

Jim. You have said in the past that you no longer listen to modern music as it all sounds the same to you. That being the case, how can you be so dismissive of it?


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 07:43 AM

Jim - and another btw... you might not have heard over the last decade,
but the'predatory music industry' is on it's last legs..
What's left of it is struggling to survive...

For most musicians, it's getting more like the small cottage industry
independant shoe string folk & punk music record lables
of the 60s and 70s...

Folks like me have been ideologically anti corporate music business for getting on 45 years...

Even if I do still buy CD compilation boxsets for a fiver..
Well.. principles can be a bit flexible...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 07:39 AM

"Why are you calling it 'my' folk scene.."
Generally aimed P - nothing personal

"20th/21st century is not nearly good enough"
THen correct me if I'm wrong
I am responding to what it being said here - I was part of the 20th century revival so I don't need a gerrap of history - it was a major part of my life
If you only concentrate on the good things the bad things have a nasty habit of creeping behind up you and biting you in the arse, as seems to be the case here

"THe state of folk now and in the future is optimistically secured"
As often as you say this doesn't make it so
You need a foundation to secure a future - how can that be possible if nobody can define the term and is no-one is prepared to discuss it ?
I'd rather try bottling fog
Jim


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 07:33 AM

Jim - Btw...

Small town South West England 1976...

"Punk rock is, by its very nature and origins a grass-roots music originating with the 'ordinary' (if there are such creatures) people
The songs were created to reflect the lives, experiences and aspirations of people who otherwise would have had no voice and no public identity as a creative class
"

I know that as fact, I was there, I was doing it...

and so were thousands of others throught out the towns and cities of the rest of the UK...

A lot of us were also at the same time listening to and involved with folk music...
There was far more inter related crossover than you will ever recognise and give credit...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 07:23 AM

Jim - do what...????

Why are you calling it 'my' folk scene..

I don't own or control anything.....

Besides which your grasp of music history in the late 20th/21st century is not nearly good enough
for you to be so dogmatic about it.
Stick to IMHO and you'd at least have a better footing when you dismiss things
you no longer understand well enough...

Personally I'm [with the little free time I have] trying
to balance an interest in 'trad folk',
and how I might relate it to more than half a century of cultural and technological evolutiuon.
With any luck I've got another 10 years at least left to explore my love of music
in ways that stimulate me...

To this end I am eager to find positive things I can respond to and learn from,
in singers and songs that frankly are not much joy to listen to..

Fortunatly so much of it is good..

..and I'm only scratching the surface so far..

AS more archives are uploaded for accesible listening,
and if the Bulmer hoard is ever made available on the internet,
I won't live long enough to catch up on all I've missed..

THe state of folk now and in the future is optimistically secured
for at least one more generation after us...

Surely you can find something positive in that...?????


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 07:12 AM

Folk is, by its very nature and origins a grass-roots music originating with the 'ordinary' (if there are such creatures) people
The songs were created to reflect the lives, experiences and aspirations of people who otherwise would have had no voice and no public identity as a creative class


What, like Punk, Rap and Indie, to name but three, you mean? Or are they shit as well?


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 06:58 AM

"Remeber we are for the most part an amicable fraternity, all on the same side.."
AS far as folk song is concerned, I am no longer sure about sides
People I like and respect are cramming finto 'folk' things which I belive shouldn't be there
Folk is, by its very nature and origins a grass-roots music originating with the 'ordinary' (if there are such creatures) people
The songs were created to reflect the lives, experiences and aspirations of people who otherwise would have had no voice and no public identity as a creative class
People are b=now suggesting that that music be uprooted and handed to the predatory music industry to use, abuse and discard, as it has once before.
I wouldn't have bothered rejoining this if that suggestion had not been made

Folk song as researched is narrative in form, detailed in description and largely un-repetitive in structure - the direct opposite to how pop music is structured
It is word-based in structure rather than musical and is narrative in form - stories with tunes - miss a few words and you loase the plot of the songs
Electronic accompaniment can only be a hindrance to to such a form
Folk rock and electric folk may have been passable experiments for a time, but that's what they were - experiments - no different that those carried out by orchestral composers
They came and went and will have to be dug up again if they are to become a major part of any scene

Your folk scene has failed miserably - the numbers show that
Ours at least served its followers for three decades without a major decline - yours has bombed in half that time and now "nobody knows what folk song is "I'm constantly being told

I would much prefer your answering these points rather than the personal abuse, if it's ok with you
Jim


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 06:51 AM

You see, Jim. There You go again. Everything you did was gold. Everything since is shit. And you then wonder why people take offense. Have you ever been considered it may be you rubbing them up the wrong way?


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 05:57 AM

Jim - if I ever wanted to insult you, you'd know it..
As it is, I don't...

Stop looking for insults in everything folks say to you, and about you...

This place would be a lot less tense and fractious...

..and while you are at it, try to be less automatically dismissive
of everybody else's ideas and attitudes regarding keeping trad folk alive in 2020 and beyond...

Remeber we are for the most part an amicable fraternity, all on the same side...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 05:39 AM

Beats thinking about what's being suggested I suppose
Personally I prefer that, if it's ok with you
Whay do you people always resort to personal insults when faced with difficult problems ?
It really isn't necessary if you're prepared to put in the effort
You continue to disappoint me
I was around when the folk boom went down the pan and we had to pick up the pieces - that never includde rushing out to buy an electric guitar
Your stating that this is what constitutes the British folk scene is confirmation that the gold we spun has been turned to shit
For that at least, thanks
Jim


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 05:18 AM

Jim - here's an idea..

When you start a new day, try this exercise to warm yourself up..

"The modern world is shit,
but I will find one positive thing to say about 2019 before I retire to bed tonight..."

With the right spirit, by the end of a each week,
you might find at least 5 to 7 more things to like about the modern world before the end of 2019..

I know it's dificult, but why not give it a go...

I was in the town's small music shop yesteday,
a bloke of 72 just purchased his first electic guitar,
said "I should have done this 50 years ago"
then eagerly asked the young sales assistant to show him the basic 4 chords
that'll get him started...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 04:16 AM

Sorry - I should have said "cultural suicide"
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 03:31 AM

" possibly indicative of the need for folksong to be integrated into main stream acoustic music "
Self harm leading to self destruction
Mainstream music survives only as long as it is profitable to the investors
We learned that when they abandoned the Folk Boom and moved on to greener pastures
Madness
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 02:50 AM

Interesting ~ possibly indicative of the need for folksong to be integrated into main stream acoustic music to survive in concert clubs??

~ traditional song unless packaged will be squeezed out, maybe ~ certainly folk festivals tend to still cater more for traditional song, yet presenting more contemporary artists in the trad style

Ray


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 04:55 PM

Although an eclectic mixture of all sorts of acoustic performers there's a significant number of artists from the folk scene proper in there, though none of them seem to have appeared twice at a quick glance, whereas the Carrivick Sisters (excellent bluegrass) have.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 01:55 PM

Steve - although I've never managed to go to this club's acoustic/folk music night..
I've been aware of it since I moved back to the west country 19 years ago..

There have been times I've noticed advertised guest artists, and wished I lived nearer...

Interestingly, they provide a link
list of guests since 2000...

Does it indicate a more general trend of artist availability,
and/or health of UK club finances as years have gone by...???

There definitely seem to be bigger names I've heard of,
going back a decade or more ago...

I really should have gone to visit relatives on a thursday night...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 01:25 PM

pfr,
Whilst I can see some folk artists on the site it calls itself an acoustic music club. That's maybe what Jim would approve of. Not the same as a folk club though, in that it would appear that any type of music is welcome so you could turn up and there would be possibly no folk music at all that night, or alternatively it could be all folk music. This is not to run down what the club does in any way as it is not calling itself anything but what it is.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 12:57 PM

Well, Skipton stalwarts include Nick Dow and Tom Lewis. Keighley includes Mary Humphries and Anahata. The audience for the former often includes me :-) I don't get to Keighley as much as I should but intend to rectify the soon. They are both exceptionally well run.

Artists I see and enjoy regularly on club-concert nights are all the above plus Anthony John Clarke; Mark Dowding; Stanley Accrington; Geoff Higginbottom; Jon Harvison: Jon Brindley and many more.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 12:24 PM

Here's the The Ritz Acoustic Club 2019

It might be a useful example for objective discussion..

On the guess that hardly any mudcatters have ever been to this out of the way
small seaside town club,
or have any vested interest, or grudges against it...???

Is it a typical club in UK 2019...???

It has an excellent stage btw...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: r.padgett
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 12:04 PM

the organisers and residents who support them or the audience that turn up every week or month?

Above is my request ~ and yes artists booked need to be appropriate to the venue and be supported in all ways by the organiser and the residents and audience ~ committees can be a good idea ~ sometimes a bad one if all not pulling together!

Ray


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 11:45 AM

Not very good condition, but there are some amazing American versions of British ballads to be found on the Helen Hartness Flanders site, many taken to the US at the beginning of the 20th century
For researchers it's a goldfield largely unmined
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 11:41 AM

"Re American versions of British songs. I think Brian feels the same."

Indeed I do. Obviously my first love is the English tradition, but the Appalachian variants often have a stripped-down, everyday quality that makes them very accessible. And often the Appalachians are the best place to go for oral versions of Child ballads that our ancestors gave up on over here.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 09:56 AM

Not sure what you mean, Ray. Are the stalwarts the artists that are booked, the organisers and residents who support them or the audience that turn up every week or month?


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 09:40 AM

Re American versions of British songs. I think Brian feels the same. What the folk process does to the printed originals is why we are here. They are polished and rounded by the people and the longer they are in the oral tradition the more rounded they become. I'd rather have an American version with 10 concise verses than the original with 20. The tunes also get rounded off as well. Some of the earlier theatrical tunes have far too much ornamentation in my opinion. That's not to say I don't also love the British versions from oral tradition but more often the American ones have passed through more voices. I love lots of Americana when I get chance to listen, bluegrass, blues, Jimmy Rogers, the lot!


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 09:33 AM

Pete still comes to our concerts because he is a very good friend and because it is such a laid back concert where he is fully appreciated for his unusual songs and humour. He used to help run the Shanty festival when it was run by the Council years ago, but he got attached to the place and is always welcome back.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 09:20 AM

Because of my anual attendence at the now RIP Burnham on sea Free Folk Fest,
and family links with the area.

I've long been aware of the Ritz social club acoustic/folk nights..

Even though I've never actually been to one...

It's big plus points for me are the rooms and stage, converted from a cinema,
and the local trad Rich's Farmhouse Cider on tap...

Though like I say, I've never been in the area visiting relatives on a 'folk club night'...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: r.padgett
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 09:13 AM

On a slightly different tack ~how many Weekly or monthly UK CONCERT clubs are we aware of and what makes 'em tick?

That is who are the stalwarts and what attracts the audience?

Ray


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