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The current state of folk music in UK

GUEST,Nick Dow 14 Nov 19 - 05:34 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 14 Nov 19 - 05:32 PM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 14 Nov 19 - 04:54 PM
Raggytash 14 Nov 19 - 03:42 PM
Dave the Gnome 14 Nov 19 - 03:23 PM
Backwoodsman 14 Nov 19 - 03:18 PM
Iains 14 Nov 19 - 03:10 PM
Jim Carroll 14 Nov 19 - 03:05 PM
Raggytash 14 Nov 19 - 03:00 PM
Dave the Gnome 14 Nov 19 - 02:21 PM
r.padgett 14 Nov 19 - 02:14 PM
punkfolkrocker 14 Nov 19 - 02:13 PM
Jim Carroll 14 Nov 19 - 01:47 PM
punkfolkrocker 14 Nov 19 - 01:44 PM
punkfolkrocker 14 Nov 19 - 01:39 PM
Backwoodsman 14 Nov 19 - 01:34 PM
punkfolkrocker 14 Nov 19 - 01:24 PM
punkfolkrocker 14 Nov 19 - 01:23 PM
Backwoodsman 14 Nov 19 - 01:15 PM
GUEST,Joe G 14 Nov 19 - 01:14 PM
GUEST 14 Nov 19 - 01:12 PM
punkfolkrocker 14 Nov 19 - 12:48 PM
Jim Carroll 14 Nov 19 - 12:46 PM
GUEST,Joe G 14 Nov 19 - 12:43 PM
Dave the Gnome 14 Nov 19 - 12:41 PM
GUEST,Joe G 14 Nov 19 - 12:35 PM
GUEST,Observer 14 Nov 19 - 12:31 PM
Iains 14 Nov 19 - 12:21 PM
punkfolkrocker 14 Nov 19 - 12:09 PM
GUEST,Joe G 14 Nov 19 - 12:05 PM
punkfolkrocker 14 Nov 19 - 11:59 AM
GUEST,Joe G 14 Nov 19 - 11:46 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Nov 19 - 11:28 AM
punkfolkrocker 14 Nov 19 - 10:46 AM
GUEST,Joe G 14 Nov 19 - 10:45 AM
GUEST,Joe G 14 Nov 19 - 10:43 AM
GUEST,Joe G 14 Nov 19 - 10:36 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Nov 19 - 10:26 AM
GUEST,Joe G 14 Nov 19 - 10:22 AM
GUEST,Joe G 14 Nov 19 - 10:19 AM
GUEST 14 Nov 19 - 10:17 AM
gillymor 14 Nov 19 - 10:10 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Nov 19 - 10:00 AM
GUEST,Joe G 14 Nov 19 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,Joe G 14 Nov 19 - 09:48 AM
GUEST,Joe G 14 Nov 19 - 09:43 AM
Big Al Whittle 14 Nov 19 - 09:19 AM
Big Al Whittle 14 Nov 19 - 09:18 AM
punkfolkrocker 14 Nov 19 - 09:13 AM
Vic Smith 14 Nov 19 - 09:08 AM
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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 05:34 PM

I'm still in the deep end! That post was supposed to go on the other thread about Travellers and their songs. Oh well you've got it twice. Let joy be unconfined.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 05:32 PM

A bit controversial I am afraid is the mess that Peter Kennedy left behind him. This has affected the travellers attitude to singing their songs not only to collectors but I am afraid to each other.

While collecting in Dorset, I was on the permanent site in Piddletrentide. I met the Price Family who travelled with Peter Ingram, and latterly Carrie Warren, Caroline Hughes daughter.
In a nutshell when asked to sing, the family said that they did not need to, and produced Peter Kennedy's tape of Caroline which they duly played.
When asked to sing other songs they knew, Carrie said the would need to be paid so much per song, because they were not going to be made a fool of again. Sheep Crook and Black dog had been recorded by Steeleye Span, and they saw that somebody was making a fortune out of their old songs.
These are our memories I was told. I know all the arguments, and I personally had to follow my heart. I had no money to pay as a newly married 29 year old with 5 stepchildren. However at least I managed to give one of my informants enough money to pay his poll tax, even if I didn't pay my own. The morality and responsibility of the role of collector has never sat easy with me, and I still have no answers today. Danny Price (on the camp) put the other view to me. If you take a song and make 10 thousand pounds good luck to you. Talk about being chucked in at the deep end.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 04:54 PM

When Jane Turriff sang her cowboy songs, was that Americana?


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 03:42 PM

Again, like others, I am in full agreement with Iains.

Times have changed, our ways of commumicating with each other and the world at large have changed.

The way we disseminate information and knowledged has changed.

For example. I am sitting in a small bar on the west coast of Ireland watching a football match being played 200 miles away, in the corner of the bar is a small television showing another football match 500 miles away. In a few seconds people in America 3000 miles away will be able to read what I have typed.

My Grandmother would be dumbfounded by this.

The way folk music is disseminated is also PROFOUNDLY affected by modern communication. The way folk music is LEARNED is also profoundly affected by this modern communication.

We no longer sit round a fire to glean this knowledge, it is at our fingertips.

For ****'s sake, even Carroll has made his research available on line.

Hellooooooooooooo this is the 21st Century!!!!!!

Oh by the way, every time I visit a folk club or session in England it is dynamic, vibrant with, I find, loads of superb new songs adding to the dynamics and vibrancy.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 03:23 PM

My loose definition is recogninable as folk

So is mine, Jim. It still does not resolve the issue of someone who neither attends not cares about folk clubs pontificating about the current state of folk.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 03:18 PM

Great merciful heavens! Iím in broad agreement for the second time!


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Iains
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 03:10 PM

The universal and timeless nature of our songs made them still relevant and the forms used to create them were as usable as they ever where to create new songs (which could never become folk unless a new oral tradition was established allowing the populace to absorb them into their creative culture)

I think I can half understand what you are saying. The drawback if I understand you correctly, is that travellers would be the only authentic source left. But to accept that I would need to be sure that they have no radios, TV,internet or any other device that plays, records music,in order the traditional "derivation" was uncorrupted and unpolluted. That argument may well have held true in the 50s and 60s, but it is increasingly difficult to be totally divorced from being battered by a constant stream of music in today's world- you cannot even buy a supermarket loaf without an earbashing.
To me this means that traditional means of creation and mutation have essentially ceased, modern creation of folk is by wordsmiths and tunesmiths, the modern world is too busy and too full of distractions for the old ways to survive, If you can accept that the words and tunes change as part of the folk process then why is it such a problem to accept the means of composition/generation have changed. With electronic transmission available for both music and lyrics it is unlikely modern folk will mutate with transmission.
In a nutshell I would suggest modern folk is just a transition from the old traditional folk and this transition was driven by changes in the modern world. So old and new in reality are one and the same, with the new constrained/driven/created by the impact of the modern world.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 03:05 PM

""loose definition" (your phrase Jim)"
My loose definition is recogninable as folk - from what you've described - yours isn't - nor is much else here - in fact its loose enough to be totally unrelated to folk
Any definition must directly relate to the recognised article and be agreed on by enough people to make it a definition
The non purist traditional fok scene was tacitly agreed by the overwhelming mahjority of those thousands of clubs on the scene - yours appears to be solely your own - not a definition

How can you describe a club scene of 1386 clubs (your words) as either surviving or thriving

"I was being diplomatic, of course an agreement of what constitutes folk has totally disappeared
We're not even allowed to discuss it without whines of "Oh no, not that again"

"how is that justifiable please?"
The public face of folk song was always the club - we relied on them for our entertainment, development of ability and our continuing education
Without them, folk song would have remained on the book shelves and locked away in archives
The clubs wouldn't have had a reason fro existence without the raw material - the songs
Can't see that need much justifying
Jim


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 03:00 PM

Iains has just gone up several notches in my view. I could even see myself buying the man a pint if our paths ever crossed.

A much more measured attitude than given by some.


Actually for some, read one.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 02:21 PM

Folk, by my own "loose definition" (your phrase Jim) is not just surviving but thriving. Many more people agree than disagree. You, by your own admission, Jim, neither visit folk clubs not care about them.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: r.padgett
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 02:14 PM

"The clubs and the songs have to be indivisble if are both to survive"

Interesting comment Jim ~ how is that justifiable please?

Ray


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 02:13 PM

Jim - after reading that, I'd debate what to me could be contradictions in your post..
But I need to get on with cooking dinner...

However, it's encouraging and constructive to see your use of a word like 'seems',
because nowt winds up folks like reading
what seems like opinion stated as dogmatic facts...

For instance..

One or more of your points will likely be met with

"No .. that's not so, that's wrong.. Thinking something is so, doesn't make it so..."


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 01:47 PM

"Iím in broad agreement with Iains.
What seems to be missing here is the fact that in England at least our song traditions had died and we inherited what had been left behind
The universal and timeless nature of our songs made them still relevant and the forms used to create them were as usable as they ever where to create new songs (which could never become folk unless a new oral tradition was established allowing the populace to absorb them into their creative culture)
The revival was based on listening to songs that shared similar sounds and structures - the unique sound of 'folk' (whether the songs weer 'folk' or not
That provided a foundation, leaving a degree of room to experiment
That seems to be what has disappeared ffrom today's scene and has been raplaced by "we no longer what folk song is"
That is proving not to be sustainable and folk song is being lost in the process
The clubs and the songs have to be indivisble if are both to survive
Jim


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 01:44 PM

"I knew who you meant, pfr!"

BWM - a delayed reaction thinking about that,
and I had to check in a panic I hadn't accidently submitted the post I was witholding from last night..

phew...!!!

but I still think it would have beeen funny,
though too easily taken the wrong way...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 01:39 PM

My wicked bone aint quite what it used to be when I was younger...
but still some life left in it when needed...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 01:34 PM

I knew who you meant, pfr!
And I was kidding about being wicked - I donít have a wicked bone in my body! ;-)


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 01:24 PM

BWS..???

BWM...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 01:23 PM

BWS - No.. not at all..

I don't come to mudcat seeking to side with 'friends',
or to dismiss and ignore 'enemies'...

A good idea is a good idea.. a sound analysis is a sound analysis, whoever posts it...

That to me at least, is positive in recognising our common shared interests and goals...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 01:15 PM

On this one, very rare, occasion, Iím in broad agreement with Iains.
Am I very wicked? :-)


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 01:14 PM

pfr - I set 'em up you knock 'em down :-)


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 01:12 PM

I like liquorice in a bread roll, with plenty of butter, but like some folk music, it's not to everyone's taste


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 12:48 PM

"Anyway back to the topic....."

I prefer Crunchie bars, or mint Aero...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 12:46 PM

"I find many (though not all of course) folk rock renditions of songs more emotive and meaningful than unaccompanied (or minimally accompanied)"
Our (English and Scots) folk song traditions are stories with tunes (not fully the case in the U.S.)
That blasted out/drowned out 'Sheep-crook' certainly produces an emotion in me (only fulfill-able if there's a blazing fire in the room) but it's certainly not the gentle bitterness conveyed by the text
The rendition has to relate to the text = surely
For me the greatest pleasure of folk song is to pop one in your mouth and feel what it tastes like - I can go to the cow-shit composers for interpretations of the tune
Jim


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 12:43 PM

Anyway back to the topic.....


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 12:41 PM

I like fig rolls. Must be why I produce a lot of shit :-D


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 12:35 PM

Swiss ;-)


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 12:31 PM

Guest JoeG:

I had to sell the Rolls to keep putting gigs on

Ham & Tomato; Egg & Cress; Cheese & Tomato; Fish Paste? Which was your best seller? ;-)


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Iains
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 12:21 PM

Too many trying to be objective about a subjective subject. There is no single   torch bearer as the bastion of the ultimate truth. There is not even agreement on a working definition to act as a starting point.
There is even a constant confusion between folk and folk clubs.
In my opinion Dave the gnome has a usable definition of folk than spans the entire genre. I get the impression that most contributors are reasonably happy with that definition. Unless there is some kind of majority agreement then discussion of the genre's health,or impending demise becomes kinda pointless. We need to move on from the apples and oranges discussion.
    Back in the day Joe average rarely had an instrument so it is hardly surprising that unaccompanied singing was regarded as normal.
Today anyone can buy a guitar.There was also a time, before the spread of TV, that singing in a pub around a piano was relatively commonplace. The fare on offer was eclectic. If we can accept that folk music is continually expanding and not pickled in aspic from around 1900AD then it must be axiomatic that if the primary function is entertainment(rather than torture) then musical accompaniment of whatever kind has the ability to lift the performance and widen it's appeal. If it was not primarily entertainment it would be restricted to bathrooms,where the acoustics are generally better


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 12:09 PM

When i sit on the bog I ask Alexa to play random names that come to mind,
names I've probably not listened to for decades, if ever..
But names I've noticed here in a thread, or linked from it,
or even recommended by Amazon emails..

Today it was Barry Dransfield..
I've eaten a lot of stodge this week so sat there for a good 4 or 5 tracks...

Now, I immediatly liked his voice, and the sound of his recordings.
I thought one was very good and added it to my playlist.
Others washed over me a bit,
One seemed a bit too old fashioned and dull 'comic song'..

However, my radar plotted him as definitely folk sounding,
if not real trad folk...

That's just one example of how I respond to the music...

I'd like my voice to be as good as his, but I'd probably not do the songs I heard today,
and certainly not the jigs...

Different tastes and styles...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 12:05 PM

I had to sell the Rolls to keep putting gigs on ;-)


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 11:59 AM

Jim - we know you have a bee in your bonnet about the corporate music industry,
and media representation of Folk...
Guess wot...
So do I, and probably most other mudcatters.

Your complaints are largely justified, and we agree..

So having established that..
It is a very important consideration,
but in this thread perhaps not the most vital right now...

""Sorry P - I don't see how handing our music back to the industry we we used it to escape from is carrying on anything"

I seriously doubt any of us advocate annything at all like that, directly or tacitly,
and would resist such surrender as best we could...

So imho it's pointless you constantly raising that complaint with us,
and at worst a distraction from what we are really trying to discover
through discussion...

I've had a quick look, and I can't see any music biz sell outs amongst us..
nope.. no sign of a rolls royce or diamond studded gold tooth veneers...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 11:46 AM

Thanks for the explanation Jim - that clarifies your meaning

I tend to disagree though (I suppose I would wouldn't I?) I find many (though not all of course) folk rock renditions of songs more emotive and meaningful than unaccompanied (or minimally accompanied) performances. But then I am very used to listening to rock music and relate to the power instrumentation to enhance a song (once again IMO) whilst I gather you generally prefer an unaccompanied setting. i am also a huge fan of orchestral music - including Butterworth as it happens - and have long found music as important as words in the expression of emotions and the painting of pictures in the mind.

Neither of us are wrong in our beliefs on how the songs are best served - it is personal preference. We both passionately want the songs to survive and to be shared - we just disagree on how that might be best achieved


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 11:28 AM

"How is folk rock 'non narrative' Jim - the songs are the same so the narrative is the same surely? How is folk rock 'non narrative' Jim - the songs are the same so the narrative is the same surely? "
When the words are dominated by the accompaniment and the singer follow the music rather than making grammatical sense of the words it ceased to be narrative or even singing - it becomes a musical rendition
I have reservations about the example I put up, but at least you can follow the story and the emotion arising from the situation it describes
That's what makes folk song stand out
Once the objective of whoever created the song is abandoned it becomes something else - that's not a value judgement, by the way

Sorry P - I don't see how handing our music back to the industry we we used it to escape from is carrying on anything
I's not my work anyway - I dodn't make the songs, I just want to share them
Don't to think we've watched our songs handed over to Shirley Ellis abd Rod Stewart and the like only to see them be copyrighted, used as a vehicle for the artist, given a few minutes of fresh air and abandoned over and over and over again
Each time some eejit has yelled "look, folk song has come into its own" only to see the back of it when the next flavour-of-the-month comes along
Folk song is further from being a recognised part of British culture than it ever was
The media parades the few who have made it up the greasy pole as performing seals, without any attention being paid to the songs, who made them, why they were made and what part they played as history carriers
Tearing them from the club grass-roots is only going to hasten their disappearance and rob the enthusiasts of the social communication the folk scene provided
No internet presence is ever going to replace that
Jim


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 10:46 AM

Jim - your generation of folk activists have layed the foundation for mine,
and those to come..

Thank you...

Now it's up to us to carry on your work.
You can influence how we do it to some extent.
We can learn from your precedence..
You can suggest how you would prefer we should do it..

But ultimately it's up to us,
and those who follow on after replacing all of us...

You let on your age earlier in this thread,
so I know when I was born you could have been a Teddy Boy or Beatnik,
or even a young Square...
You are just old enought to be my d.. uncle..

But despite the 18 years diference, we are both categorised as baby boomers...

None of us liked being dictated to and controlled by grown ups,
and in our final decades..
we still don't..

Just rest assured this new lot of millenials
will carry on the folk music torch..
whether you like what they do with it,
or I like it either...

My generation faught the punk wars,
and yet these ungrateful young f@ckers
tell us to stuff our electric guitars
while they all flock to take up the bloody ukelele...!!!???


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 10:45 AM

How is folk rock 'non narrative' Jim - the songs are the same so the narrative is the same surely? Or have I misunderstood your meaning?


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 10:43 AM

We will have to agree to disagree on that Jim - you have your views and I have mine. I have been attending folk clubs for 43 years, promoted many gigs (almost all at cost to myself), been involved in running festivals and generally supporting folk music for the whole of my adult life. I, like most others here, do not support your narrow view of what folk music is so we are never going to agree.

Folk rock and other, non traditional, forms of folk music have brought pleasure to many thousands of people - it is not about money except in a very, very few cases - it is about artists fulfilling themselves and bringing enjoyment to their audiences.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 10:36 AM

Here is Henry Parker's album version - I must admit I prefer his acoustic guitar version but this is still very good IMO.

Henry Parker - Willie O Winsbury

Henry is another example of how healthy I believe the folk scene is at the moment. He contacted me with some mp3s of his when I was running a monthly folk/roots gig in Shipley a few years back and I was so impressed I asked him to support the Durbervilles - a local Americana band who also have a folk programme on Radio Leeds. The Durbs were really impressed too and invited him on for a session and later one of the Durbs, Dave Crickmore, produced his album and released it on his record label - it has gone on to receive many excellent reviews.

When I met Henry I persuaded him to come down to the Topic as a floor singer and he gained in confidence as time went on. He is now playing very regular gigs, often with his partner Katie Spencer (another singer well worth discovering) and, by coincidence he and Katie are on at the Topic in Bradford tonight. Henry also recently supported the venerable Soft Machine on a couple of recent gigs!

The Topic has been supportive of many young artists and, although the audience is ageing they still regularly programme young artists on their guest nights which run three weeks out of four except in August.

So it is certainly not all doom and gloom!


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 10:26 AM

"folk rock. "
An oxymoron Joe -rather like describing George Buttterworth's 'Banks of Green Willow as folk music
One is a non-narrative product of the music industry, the other a narrative creation of 'the people
If that represents today's 'folk' output it has been sold out
Jim


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 10:22 AM

I love Wille o Winsbury - a friend of mine does a sublime guitar instrumental based on the tune. Just listening to the Offa Rex version - her voice gives me goosebumps!


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 10:19 AM

Apologies that last guest was me! For once I forgot to add my name!


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 10:17 AM

I would certainly describe it as folk - though to be more accurate I would probably call it folk rock. Must admit I much prefer Olivia's voice to that of Brian's in your clip but each to their own. Both are interpretations of a folk song. You might describe the instrumentation of the Offa Rex version as 'noise' but I love it and I am sure many others do too. Maybe someone will hear this version and become interested in the original folk song and go on to hear other songs in the same way I did when I heard Steeleye Span. That is the way the music will survive - by new people discovering the songs and bands such as this are helping that process as well as making excellent (IMO) interpretations of the songs.

Did you listen to the Granny's Attic track? Don't worry no electric guitars in that one :-)


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 10:10 AM

I've never cared for the singing of the male singer for The Decemberists
so it's nice to hear them with a first rate singer in Chaney. She does a lovely Willy o Winsbury on the same album along with some other outstanding cuts.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 10:00 AM

"Offa Rex"
Is that noise really what passed for folk now Joe ?
NOT PERFECT bUT IMMINENTLY PREFFERABLE
Jim


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 09:58 AM

Also on the same Folk Programme was this beautiful tune composed by a member of Granny's Attic. Folk music is in very safe hands with these young lads! (Sorry only got a Spotify link for this one)

Granny's Attic - Fenland


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 09:48 AM

Here's You Tube link in case Spotify link only works for members

Offa Rex - You Tube Link


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 09:43 AM

Thanks for everyone's continuing contributions to this thread - do try to keep it friendly though - it has become a bit fractious again recently.

Heard this on the Radio 2 Folk Show recently and it reminded me of the tremendous music being made by Offa Rex - a collaboration between Olivia Chaney and The Decemberists where they take folk songs and do rather wonderful things with them thus bringing them to the attention of a wider audience

Offa Rex - Sheepcrook and Black Dog


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 09:19 AM

Happiness is good!


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 09:18 AM

well true enough - but you don't learn the craft in five minutes. you have to go about making an idiot and bore of yourself, and stick at it - to find out what YOU can do. you start off copying others - but if your heroes are any good - you find that you can't do what they do - because you're not them. But hopefully by doing something you learn what are your strengths.

everyone starts somewhere.

Out of the hundreds of guitar lessons I gave - only two got to the point where they achieved international recognition. But scores went on to become proficient guitarists.

Some poor sods are never much cop, but they've enjoyed themselves a bit. Isn't that some sort of achievement for them? Happiness...isn't that worthwhile? I think next to that, the meaning of fplksong is very small beer.


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 09:13 AM

I've just woken up from my first decent sleep all week...

Wake up routine ..

toilet
check phone for messages
kettle on
check mudcat for any new stimulating posts
and to see what the obsesssive row of the day is,
and which mudcatter is behaving like a nutter...
look out window for signs of zombie apocalypse
cheese sandwich
BBC news
Face up to coping with demands of mother's dementia..
Look sadly at guitars and amps gathering dust....
Look in on mudcat between phone calls, kitchen and lavatory visits...
Mudcat punctuates the day and keeps my mind ticking over on folk music related topics
while I consider my own recordings if I ever get time back to get on with my own life..

To me as an isolated individual
thst is The current state of folk music in UK...

Folk music is made up of individuals and how they relate to the music...
After that comes all the bollocks that feeds arguements about clubs
and University researchers...

Oh for a simple polite thread about banjo strings or capos..
But it's mudcat, you know there will be an obsesive nutter
with entrenched views even on string technology...
Selling your soul to the corporate string industry, or making them your self the traditional way
out of cat gut and fence wire...

Btw Jim.. not telling you to shut up,
just asking you to be a bit more coherent sometimes,
so we know what you are going on about...
Effective communication is essential when we have busy demanding lives
and lttle time to uravel and second guess the state of minds
of distant internet mates...


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Subject: RE: The current state of folk music in UK
From: Vic Smith
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 09:08 AM

maybe the truth is that the folk clubs are not what they were- think that's a given?... but the state of folk music in the UK outside the clubs isn't bad at all?


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