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BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??

robomatic 19 Aug 19 - 07:20 PM
meself 19 Aug 19 - 07:03 PM
Mrrzy 19 Aug 19 - 06:50 PM
Mr Red 19 Aug 19 - 04:16 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 19 Aug 19 - 12:42 PM
meself 19 Aug 19 - 09:59 AM
Mrrzy 19 Aug 19 - 09:51 AM
Charmion 19 Aug 19 - 09:46 AM
Sandra in Sydney 19 Aug 19 - 02:32 AM
meself 19 Aug 19 - 12:04 AM
Sandra in Sydney 18 Aug 19 - 11:06 PM
Joe Offer 18 Aug 19 - 10:02 PM
Mrrzy 18 Aug 19 - 08:59 PM
Iains 18 Aug 19 - 04:34 PM
michaelr 18 Aug 19 - 03:28 PM
Jack Campin 18 Aug 19 - 03:15 PM
meself 18 Aug 19 - 03:07 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Aug 19 - 07:20 PM

Not to get didactic about the issue, but it has a history in American Lit. I remember this story from way back.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: meself
Date: 19 Aug 19 - 07:03 PM

Sandra: that's a disturbing article. Similar things have happened in Canada, to our shame: in at least one case, a Somali-Canadian was deported to Somalia, of all places, even though he didn't speak the language and had no connections there, not having been there since he had been brought to Canada as an infant - he was deposited somewhere along the border with Kenya and told which way to walk. Then there was the Italian who had been living in Canada since he was eight, and did not speak Italian, who was deported to Italy. The term 'cruel and unusual' comes to mind .... I have no idea how many such cases there have been.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Aug 19 - 06:50 PM

Mr. Red, I believe if I am murdered I remain American. I'm dead but not stateless (no dual citizenship for me). So, no. The death penalty may be barbaric but that is irrelevant here.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Aug 19 - 04:16 PM

Surely there are US states that have the death penalty, is that not depriving a person of citizenship?

The question I ask is "in what country was he when he was radicalised?"

Answers sort of focus the responsibility somewhat, IMNSHO.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 19 Aug 19 - 12:42 PM

It seems to be Rhode Island, not New Jersey, which declares inmates serving life sentences "civilly dead". The practice was apparently widespread at one time, with roots in English common law, but has been abolished in the UK and all US states except RI.

Rhode Island's law is currently under challenge by the American Civil Liberties Union (CLICK HERE).


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: meself
Date: 19 Aug 19 - 09:59 AM

I believe Letts's mother is English, is she not?


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Aug 19 - 09:51 AM

I am pretty sure a US state has no say in US citizenship.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Charmion
Date: 19 Aug 19 - 09:46 AM

Jack Letts is a birthright citizen of both the UK and Canada because he was born in England (thus gaining right of citizenship there) of Canadian parents (thus acquiring Canadian citizenship). His British citizenship right would have lapsed if his family had left the UK when he was a child, but they stayed and live there still.

Canada's gripe against the UK is based on the fact that young Letts has never, in fact, lived in Canada. Our government claims that Britain's share of state responsibility is therefore greater and less shruggable-off.

Britain's centuries of existence as a state or states in various forms gives the UK precedent for yanking citizenship, but I don't think anyone has been formally banished since maybe the reign of Elizabeth I. Even prisoners transported to Australia remained British subjects.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 19 Aug 19 - 02:32 AM

we have the same problem with returning folk (criminals) to the country of their birth just because they never took out citizenship.

Australia & New Zealand have had agreements that each country's citizens can move freely & recent evictions have included people who have lived here since they were babies

Another person was sent "back" to a country where they spoke a language he did not know.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: meself
Date: 19 Aug 19 - 12:04 AM

I just feel that if someone is born and bred in your country, then he's yours, whether you like it or not; deal with him as you will. In this case, I would feel the same if he ('Jack') were born in Canada - I would consider him our problem, and would not want to see my government fob him off on Britain. Yes, the letter of the law allows it, but it doesn't seem right to me. I feel the same way about felons who are sent back to some country that they were brought from when they were infants, and haven't seen since - if they grew up among us, they are our problem. It's a bit like returning the Great Dane you took as a puppy, because he's not cute any more.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 11:06 PM

Saturday, 29 December 2018 Neil Prakash stripped of Australian citizenship
Today I can confirm that the Australian Government has notified Neil Prakash that his Australian citizenship has ceased due to being in the service of Islamic State.
This brings to 12 the total number of dual citizens whose Australian citizenship has ceased for actions contrary to their allegiance to Australia.
Mr Prakash is currently in jail in Turkey, where he faces charges related to being a member of Islamic State.
Mr Prakash is also the subject to a formal extradition request made by Australia to Turkey in relation to a number of serious terrorism charges.
Under section 35 of the Australian Citizenship Act 2007, a dual national's Australian citizenship automatically ceases if they act contrary to their allegiance to Australia by engaging in terrorism-related conduct.
Islamic State has been a declared a terrorist organisation for these purposes since 6 May 2016. This terrorist organisation is opposed to Australia's rights and liberties, interests, values, and democratic beliefs.
Cessation of Australian citizenship of dual nationals engaged in terrorist conduct offshore is a key part of Australia's response to international violent extremism and terrorism.
Dual citizens who choose to be involved in terrorism forfeit the privileges of Australian citizenship and I remain committed to enforcing the legal provisions that remove them.

Peter Dutton Minister for Home Affairs & leader of Border Force


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 10:02 PM

I have found findlaw.com to be quite reliable in its interpretation of law and court decisions in the US. In the US, the determination of US citizenship is made by US courts, not by the State of New Jersey.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 08:59 PM

You can't be made stateless by international law- the right to have a nationality is a declared human right. So if you have dual citizenship whoever strips you first wins.

You take up arms agaist a nation you have citizenship with, I have no argument with said nation revoking your citizenship, whether you were born there or emigrated there.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Iains
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 04:34 PM

This can only occur if the person concerned holds dual nationality. A person cannot be made stateless by UK law.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: michaelr
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 03:28 PM

Modi is doing the same thing to Indian muslims.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 03:15 PM

The state of New Jersey does something similar to prisoners with life sentences - they are declared legally dead.

I think there are international treaties forbidding the UK from doing this.


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Subject: BS: 'Stripping of Citizenship'??
From: meself
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 03:07 PM

Just wondering - any of you UKers at all bothered by your government 'stripping the citizenship' of someone born and bred in the UK? I'm surprised that this is even a legal option - it sounds like something that would be done in a totalitarian regime. Is there precedent for this?

(This is prompted by the 'Jihadi Jack' story).


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