mudcat.org: Labour - the party of Remain
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Labour - the party of Remain

Big Al Whittle 10 Jul 19 - 02:36 AM
Big Al Whittle 10 Jul 19 - 02:36 AM
Iains 10 Jul 19 - 02:46 AM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jul 19 - 03:00 AM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jul 19 - 03:15 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 Jul 19 - 11:11 AM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jul 19 - 11:33 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Jul 19 - 11:43 AM
Iains 10 Jul 19 - 02:31 PM
Big Al Whittle 10 Jul 19 - 02:54 PM
David Carter (UK) 10 Jul 19 - 03:00 PM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jul 19 - 03:17 PM
Big Al Whittle 10 Jul 19 - 04:39 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Jul 19 - 05:20 PM
Big Al Whittle 10 Jul 19 - 06:10 PM
Black belt caterpillar wrestler 10 Jul 19 - 07:01 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Jul 19 - 07:05 PM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jul 19 - 07:32 PM
Big Al Whittle 10 Jul 19 - 07:39 PM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jul 19 - 07:42 PM
Big Al Whittle 10 Jul 19 - 07:49 PM
Big Al Whittle 10 Jul 19 - 07:49 PM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jul 19 - 08:02 PM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jul 19 - 08:06 PM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jul 19 - 08:11 PM
Big Al Whittle 11 Jul 19 - 12:25 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Jul 19 - 02:16 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jul 19 - 02:34 AM
David Carter (UK) 11 Jul 19 - 02:46 AM
Big Al Whittle 11 Jul 19 - 04:31 AM
Mr Red 11 Jul 19 - 05:26 AM
Iains 11 Jul 19 - 05:32 AM
David Carter (UK) 11 Jul 19 - 05:48 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Jul 19 - 07:11 AM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jul 19 - 10:47 AM
Big Al Whittle 11 Jul 19 - 12:37 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jul 19 - 01:07 PM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jul 19 - 01:08 PM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jul 19 - 01:25 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jul 19 - 01:32 PM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jul 19 - 01:38 PM
Mr Red 11 Jul 19 - 01:44 PM
Backwoodsman 11 Jul 19 - 02:16 PM
Backwoodsman 11 Jul 19 - 02:19 PM
Iains 12 Jul 19 - 04:32 AM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jul 19 - 06:41 AM
Big Al Whittle 12 Jul 19 - 07:10 AM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jul 19 - 07:32 AM
Big Al Whittle 12 Jul 19 - 07:35 AM
bobad 12 Jul 19 - 07:48 AM
David Carter (UK) 12 Jul 19 - 08:01 AM
Dave the Gnome 12 Jul 19 - 08:03 AM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jul 19 - 08:21 AM
Mr Red 12 Jul 19 - 08:48 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Jul 19 - 08:57 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Jul 19 - 09:17 AM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jul 19 - 09:23 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Jul 19 - 09:42 AM
David Carter (UK) 12 Jul 19 - 10:21 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Jul 19 - 11:10 AM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jul 19 - 11:18 AM
Big Al Whittle 12 Jul 19 - 11:29 AM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jul 19 - 12:05 PM
Backwoodsman 12 Jul 19 - 12:17 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jul 19 - 12:18 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jul 19 - 12:25 PM
Big Al Whittle 12 Jul 19 - 01:07 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jul 19 - 01:29 PM
Iains 12 Jul 19 - 01:44 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jul 19 - 01:47 PM
Big Al Whittle 12 Jul 19 - 02:13 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jul 19 - 02:22 PM
Iains 12 Jul 19 - 02:33 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jul 19 - 02:42 PM
Backwoodsman 12 Jul 19 - 02:56 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jul 19 - 03:18 PM
Backwoodsman 12 Jul 19 - 03:27 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jul 19 - 03:45 PM
David Carter (UK) 12 Jul 19 - 03:45 PM
Big Al Whittle 12 Jul 19 - 04:35 PM
Backwoodsman 12 Jul 19 - 05:09 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Jul 19 - 05:33 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jul 19 - 06:18 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Jul 19 - 07:36 PM
Big Al Whittle 12 Jul 19 - 08:09 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jul 19 - 09:26 PM
Backwoodsman 13 Jul 19 - 04:50 AM
punkfolkrocker 14 Jul 19 - 10:40 AM
punkfolkrocker 14 Jul 19 - 10:47 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jul 19 - 07:02 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jul 19 - 07:46 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 19 - 08:20 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Jul 19 - 08:20 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jul 19 - 08:43 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jul 19 - 08:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Jul 19 - 08:51 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jul 19 - 10:31 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jul 19 - 10:39 AM
Stilly River Sage 15 Jul 19 - 10:44 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Jul 19 - 12:19 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jul 19 - 12:37 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jul 19 - 12:45 PM
Dave the Gnome 15 Jul 19 - 01:23 PM
Iains 15 Jul 19 - 01:31 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 19 - 01:49 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jul 19 - 01:57 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 19 - 03:11 PM
Raggytash 15 Jul 19 - 03:18 PM
Backwoodsman 15 Jul 19 - 03:39 PM
Iains 16 Jul 19 - 11:27 AM
Iains 17 Jul 19 - 04:19 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Jul 19 - 04:49 AM
Iains 17 Jul 19 - 05:31 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Jul 19 - 05:44 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Jul 19 - 05:52 AM
Iains 17 Jul 19 - 07:21 AM
punkfolkrocker 17 Jul 19 - 11:04 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Jul 19 - 11:08 AM
punkfolkrocker 17 Jul 19 - 11:10 AM
Iains 17 Jul 19 - 11:14 AM
punkfolkrocker 17 Jul 19 - 11:18 AM
punkfolkrocker 17 Jul 19 - 11:20 AM
Iains 17 Jul 19 - 11:50 AM
punkfolkrocker 17 Jul 19 - 12:15 PM
Dave the Gnome 17 Jul 19 - 12:44 PM
Raggytash 17 Jul 19 - 02:26 PM
Jim Carroll 17 Jul 19 - 02:39 PM
Raggytash 18 Jul 19 - 03:15 PM
Iains 19 Jul 19 - 11:07 AM
punkfolkrocker 19 Jul 19 - 11:12 AM
punkfolkrocker 19 Jul 19 - 11:35 AM
Iains 19 Jul 19 - 02:01 PM
punkfolkrocker 19 Jul 19 - 02:43 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Jul 19 - 04:48 PM
punkfolkrocker 19 Jul 19 - 05:57 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Jul 19 - 06:22 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:









Subject: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 02:36 AM

breathtaking....still its going to please some


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 02:36 AM

sorry should be in BS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 02:46 AM

I will await it's repositioning before commenting.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 03:00 AM

Labour - the party of trying to get the tories out of power,
even if difficult political decisions and compromises must be reluctantly made along the way
in order to prioritise achieving that primary objective...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 03:15 AM

to be continued in a BS/General Discussion Thread...

In the meantime, anyone else dealing with an infestation of flying ants inside their home..
Those annoying little buggers have got no respect for any of us,
leavers or remainers..
It's difficult working out what exactly are the politics of an ant colony..
Are they predominantly leftwing or rightwing - they've got both...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 11:11 AM

My lad had an infestation in his bathroom a couple of weeks back. Ants that is. Not politicians.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 11:33 AM

Yeah.. it's our bathroom too.
Weird thing is this year "flying ant day" for us has been going on for over a week so far.
Every afternoon they start crawling out from somewhere behind the bath...

Which means I can pick them up and build a raft of floating ants in the bog to use for target practise...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 11:43 AM

It's horseflies here. Bad year for 'em. But we're having phenomenal weather. Sunny every day in July, bone dry so far and just 5mm rain in the last three weeks. Cutting the grass is a thing of the past. Still, this time next year we'll be a third world basket case, so I'm making the most of it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 02:31 PM

Why the distraction lads? I guess Corbyn must have an arse fullof splinters by now he has spun so much on that fence. His heartlands are all off to join the brexit party shortly. Panorama is about to give him a roasting tonight. The Labour whistleblowers are accusing two of Corbyn’s closest allies of interfering in Labour’s disciplinary processes around anti-Semitism – Labour General Secretary Jennie Formby and Corbyn’s right-hand man Seumas Milne. The Leader’s Office is accused of being “angry and obstructive” over anti-Semitism amidst numerous other allegations including Formby bringing in officials who “overruled” and “downgraded” disciplinary decisions, while deleting emails and using external email addresses to try to cover her tracks, and Corbyn’s office taking in various cases for his own aides to process them directly. Labour are sticking to the line that these are false allegations from “disaffected” former members of staff. Now it’s Momentum founder Jon Lansman who’s been wheeled out to make an extraordinary allegation against the whistleblowers, suggesting that they deliberately sabotaged Labour’s attempts to tackle anti-Semitism in order to make Corbyn look bad. Looks pretty defamatory if he doesn’t have any proof:
Fresh from threatening their whistleblowers over the weekend with heavy-handed legal letters from the attack dogs at Carter Ruck, Labour have responded in a similarly measured fashion to their three peers who resigned in protest at Labour’s “institutional anti-Semitism”. Labour have opted to go strongly on the attack, saying “we completely reject these false and offensive claims”.
Some suspect that going aggressively after two Jewish peers who’ve just resigned from the party over it no longer being “a safe political environment for Jewish people or other opponents of anti-Semitism” is probably not going to down as well as Labour think it is.
Looks a real dog and pony show I wonder what labour intend to spin tomorrow to draw some of the heat?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 02:54 PM

Well on the surface at least - it looks like game set and match to the remainers.


Let's hope what happens next is to their entire satisfaction.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 03:00 PM

Well, if it results in us remaining, it will be entirely to my satisfaction.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 03:17 PM

There are too many fanatical political and religious factions who are desperate prevent a labour govt
by any dirty tricks they can...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 04:39 PM

'There are too many fanatical political and religious factions who are desperate prevent a labour govt
by any dirty tricks they can...'

which does savour of getting in the excuses early. what about all the huge swathes of population who have seen the light - now that they are fully informed, rather than being cruelly misled?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 05:20 PM

Well the biggest dirty trick of all time has just been perpetrated by the BBC in tonight's Panorama. An anti-Corbynista third-rate reporter "interviews" (aka does his nodding-dog act) in front of a litany of disaffected ex-Blairites. Not a single one was asked to substantiate a single accusation or give any details of their supposed abuse. Not ONE. And we were treated at the end to tear-jerking accounts of "breakdowns," "didn't know what to do with myself" and threatened suicide attempts. Not one question asked of any of these accusers. Not a single challenge. And we had repeated dark footage of sinister-looking Labour HQs and deliberately grainy and greyed-out footage of Corbyn. It was the Sun Page Three but without the tits. Yeah, knob-ends a-plenty but without the tits. A disgrace, and the lowest of low ebbs of the Beeb. What a shocker.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 06:10 PM

yes and it was done on a day ending with a 'y', a typical shabby nazi trick perpetrated by the traditional enemies of upright decent Jeremy, who always plays a straight bat...

infamy! infamy!


Just to re-cap for those of you with a slim purchase on reality.

Jeremy Corbyn has abadoned representing the millions of people who voted leave, The majority of these live in northern English constituencies where English manufacturing was based. In a way this is a re-allignment of the Labour Party - an admission that Thatcher and her monetarist policies were in essence correct - and (as BWM) and others on mudcat have intimated English manufacturing was not worth preserving. If England can afford to go on paying itself and anyone else who fancies living here - for producing nothing very much - real estate and finiancial services, you will now have the opportunity to prove.

Simultaneously with this Blairite members of the party and MP's ( the last Labour MP's to win an election) are being edged out of the party.

This is the biggest and most decisive move, I can recall in this political party's history.

I think maybe those who have promoted and argued for this should take ownership, and stop casting themselves as victims.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 07:01 PM

So we now have one party for Brexit and four against. So if there is a general election the remain vote is split four ways.

Robin


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 07:05 PM

You didn't watch it, did you, Al.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 07:32 PM

Al - as long as you'll be happier coping to live your last years under a perpetual tory,
or perhaps even Farage/Robinson, government..

Yeah, it'll be a terrific lifestyle of luxury for the Great British elderly and disabled...

whoopee.. bring it on...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 07:39 PM

watch what...the John Major thing. No I didn't see it. Find me a link that works and I will. Though how the bugger who took us into the ERM can claim to have superior insight, I just don't see why you would trust him.

If you made that dimension of mistake , costing the country that much...you'd be damn lucky to escape without a prison sentence in any other walk of life.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 07:42 PM

Al - Major, boris, Chunt, they are all tories...

But Major is now older and wiser, and possibly the lesser of those 3 evils...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 07:49 PM

"Al - as long as you'll be happier coping to live your last years under a perpetual tory,
or perhaps even Farage/Robinson, government..

Yeah, it'll be a terrific lifestyle of luxury for the Great British elderly and disabled...

whoopee.. bring it on...'

that's my point - Good old Jeremy has just discarded the traditional Labour vote, and the party mre-election machinery. Presumably to keep in with the five quid trots and the Have I Got News For You gang. Get down with the kids etc., but don't ask us to vote while GFlastpbury is on, or the college bar open.

You have just made one of those moves (like electing Michael Foot and unilateralist Neil KInnock as party leaders) that will ensure tory victory. And yes it will be the poor and disabled who pick up the bill.

whoopee indeed


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 07:49 PM

"Al - as long as you'll be happier coping to live your last years under a perpetual tory,
or perhaps even Farage/Robinson, government..

Yeah, it'll be a terrific lifestyle of luxury for the Great British elderly and disabled...

whoopee.. bring it on...'

that's my point - Good old Jeremy has just discarded the traditional Labour vote, and the party mre-election machinery. Presumably to keep in with the five quid trots and the Have I Got News For You gang. Get down with the kids etc., but don't ask us to vote while GFlastpbury is on, or the college bar open.

You have just made one of those moves (like electing Michael Foot and unilateralist Neil KInnock as party leaders) that will ensure tory victory. And yes it will be the poor and disabled who pick up the bill.

whoopee indeed


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 08:02 PM

Al - just a reminder.. I've never been a member of the labour party,
and I'm not a corbanite..

AS far as I'm concerned, he's just an older bloke keeping the seat warm for a younger more acceptable successor..

Hopefully, a leader with less historic baggage the hard right and their media channels can demonise..

But even if Christ himself came back and lead the labour party,
the tories, and even harder right, would dig up/make up dirt to discredit him..


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 08:06 PM

Oops.. I shouldn't presume christ comes back as a fella..

just in case the 2nd coming is as a lady next time..

like Dr Who...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 08:11 PM

Al - btw.. you seem to have in recent months, increasingly gone all ukip in your ideas and the way you express them...???

I'm concerned all the ex labour voting working class who'll actively vote for brexit party or ukip,
have a consideration for the potential reality under a govt lead by one of 'em,
or both in coalition...

.. and folks used to say that the liberals mean well, but would be inexperienced and clueless how to run the country..


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 12:25 AM

I'd never vote UKIP or tory or NF, or whatever the buggers are calling themselves this week.

Why concern yourself with whom they might vote for.

THe whole bloody point is that the smartarses have been abusing and insulting the point of view held earnestly and seriously by traditional Labour voters for months. THat it is a serious point of view is just beyond the imagining of the parlour leftists, here on mudcat.

THere can be few more vociferous supporters of REmain than Tony Blair - but see all the abuse heaped on 'the Blairite faction'. Basically the faction you guys have been supporting just hate the idea of Labour in office because of the responsibilities it will bring. Its more fun to dick around.

Here in the southwest - I notice that the latest consignment of police cars are Skoda. The company that dropped bombs on all those northern cities where the Leave Labour vote was concentrated. Do you really think we voted for Skoda police cars back in 1974.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 02:16 AM

”...and (as BWM) and others on mudcat have intimated English manufacturing was not worth preserving. If England can afford to go on paying itself and anyone else who fancies living here - for producing nothing very much - real estate and finiancial services, you will now have the opportunity to prove.”

Al, I’m very happy for you to disagree with my opinions, that’s what a forum like this is for, but I will not accept you telling bare-faced lies about me. I have never, at any time said that ‘English (sic) manufacturing was not worth preserving’. As someone who worked in ‘English (sic) manufacturing’ and a union-member all that time, the idea is complete anathema to me.

I have said, on a number of occasions, that the demise of UK manufacturing was the result of a combination of bad management, complacency - the idea that ‘everybody on earth wants our stuff at any price’, under-investment, poor industrial relations, and the ideology of the Thatcherite Tories who wanted to weaken the power of the unions by increasing unemployment. How you got from that to your claim that I said that ‘English (sic) manufacturing was not worth saving’ is beyond me.

So, if you wish to continue with your assertion that I’ve said that ‘English (sic) manufacturing was not worth saving’, let’s see your evidence.

Put up or shut up.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 02:34 AM

Good old Jeremy has just discarded the traditional Labour vote

As I have pointed out elsewhere, Al, Labour voters were 65% remain. How can saying that you will give them a say in what the Tory party have inflicted on them be discarding their vote?

Steve was talking about the Panorama documentary BTW. That chip on your shoulder seems to be affecting your powers of reason.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 02:46 AM

Traditional Labour voters and the working class are not the same thing. Never have been, though in recent years, certainly since the 80s, that divide has increased. Labour voters, as has been repeated over and over again, are overwhelmingly pro remain. You seem to be confusing them with Tory and UKIP voters in traditional Labour areas. Such people have always existed, they backed Mosley, they backed Powell.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 04:31 AM

Well sorry BWM - no dishonety was intended.

if ' bad management, complacency - the idea that ‘everybody on earth wants our stuff at any price’, under-investment, poor industrial relations,' was the whole story then I think it was a fair assessment on your part that it wasn't worth saving. I assumed (obviously wrongly) that this is what you thought.

I apologise unreservedly.

Perhaps I owe an apology to Corbyn as well. I assumed this was what he was thinking.

I presumed he was thinking - Northern working men, what a gang of losers. Might as well kick them to the kerb, and get on with my new mates...yippeee!! goverment grants for all bhangra lesbian morris dancers!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 05:26 AM

I guess Corbyn must have an arse fullof splinters by now he has spun so much on that fence.

cf Turncoats in blue?

Let's face it. Modern politicians will tell people anything they think will get them the top job. And changing ones mind start very, very close at home! Though mind is a little exaggeration, ne c'est pas?

Come back Disraeli - all is forgiven.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 05:32 AM

As I have pointed out elsewhere, Al, Labour voters were 65% remain.
Another sweeping statement- with no supporting link.
However the reality is that this is a meaningless figure. Let us look at it in a rational manner and rephrase the results to a meaningful statement. i.e. bums on seats!
406 constituencies voted to leave, 242 voted to remain in the EU referendum.
Around 75% of constituencies that were won by the Conservatives in the 2017 general election voted to Leave, while around 61% of Labour constituencies voted to Leave.
You may wish to play games by including the babes in arms or recently departed but the only meaningful figures are those that won the seat in the various constituencies. Using your arguments UKIP would have won many Parliamentary seats in the not so distant past.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 05:48 AM

Big Al, if you want to determine whether it was worth saving, ultimately it is whether the product is worth having. In many cases the product was poor and uncompetitive. You can analyse why, but by the time it had deteriorated to the extent it had, it was a bit late.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 07:11 AM

"if ' bad management, complacency - the idea that 'everybody on earth wants our stuff at any price', under-investment, poor industrial relations,' was the whole story then I think it was a fair assessment on your part that it wasn't worth saving."

What don't you understand about "I will not tolerate you telling bare-faced lies about me"?

I never, at any point suggested it 'wasn't worth saving' - that's a concept introduced by you and whilst it may be a part of your views on the demise of UK manufacturing, it's not mine.

The point I've made all along is that UK manufacturing's downfall was due to a complicated mix of factors, mostly of our own making, and that your seeking to dump the blame on the EU is a gross over-simplification of a very complex problem.

Now, stop telling lies about me, and GTFU.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 10:47 AM

For many years the only working class tory I'd ever heard of by name was Alf Garnett...

Most of my friends and family are Labour voters.. and as far as I know not one of 'em voted leave...

My old mates over in Bridgwater, an oasis of Labour activism in the tory desert of Somerset..
they are extremely proud of their continuing historic cultural and business twinning links
with Europe...

https://www.bridgwatermercury.co.uk/news/17763484.week-events-celebrate-twinning-bridgwater/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 12:37 PM

'In many cases the product was poor and uncompetitive. You can analyse why, but by the time it had deteriorated to the extent it had, it was a bit late.'

whereas Skoda, Renault, Fiat were making real quality products . ho hum. THe difference is that the EEC has squeezed our businesses out of existence. They continue to thrive.

Your recollection of the British industrial scene are so much at variance with the facts BWM, that I assumed it was merely your biassed point of view. And I don't see much to change my opinion.

Most factories in the Notts Derby - hosiery, textile, engineering - had a well motivated workforce that did their damndest to support their managements. And their products like Charnos tights and Viyella shirts were market leaders.

Why you guys hate the English working class so much, I don't know. Obviously you think the economy of the country will be fine without them. Lets hope you're right.

It looks as though we are about to find out.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 01:07 PM

Skoda, Renault and Fiat for all their faults were competitive. Something that British Leyland or whatever it was called at the time never were. And I am English working class. Have worked for the last 49.5 years without a break and retired last Friday. Can you tell me where to collect my rose coloured glasses or are those reserved for "performers, songwriters and teachers of guitar". Hardly a working class CV.

Iains. I have had enough of addressing numpties for one day. I think I will do something more productive like counting clouds or pushing sand up my nose. But as a final act of care in the community I will point out that
1) The thread was started on the premise that the Labour party is letting down its voters. They are doing no such thing as the survey points out.
2) If you believe the survey is inaccurate, point us to a better indicator and
3) There is no such thing as a naughty step. Posts deemed inappropriate are deleted. But you know that don't you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 01:08 PM

"Why you guys hate the English working class so much, "

Al - mate, I can't let that go unchallenged..

You are now tipping over the edge into talking inflammatory bollocks

[maybe it's the july heat and excess perspiration - baggy cotton boxers will help prevent bollock inflammations...]

I grew up on a west country council estate,
my dad was a factory shop steward until thatcher,
and the sudden closure of that factory which was the main employer for our estate..

I'm constantly arguing that the next labour leader needs to be real grass roots,
not another smarmy ex public school & oxbridge posh rich boy/girl...

Labour needs to address why traditional working class voters can no longer identify with their own historic party...
But of course they are tied up in other more pressing problems
imposed on the party leadership by external and internal enemies...


The tories/farrage/brexit/ukip are are only beneficiaries...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 01:25 PM

Al - you seem to see brexit as some kind of panacea.
A lot of us aren't so convinced..

If it happens I hope you are right...

But however it works out, such talk as yours,
prioritising that one issue over all others,
will do irreparable harm to the only party committed to genuinely improving life
for whatever is now defined as the 'working classes'...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 01:32 PM

Spot on PFR. I was born in Salford in a 2 up 2 down with no bathroom. When they pulled it down they moved us into a council house and there I stayed until I got married and was lucky enough to buy another 2 up 2 down in Salford. But this one had a bathroom. My Dad, a Polish immigrant, was a painter and decorator and at the times there was no work went labouring. My Mum was a shop girl when they married but gave it up when I was born. I have been lucky enough to do office work all my life, but it always was just paid work and I have therefore always been working class. I have never had any pretentions to be an artist or performer. Just a drone! I have no idea where Al has got the idea that we are all middle class when he is the one who has his own website to sell his services as a musician. What, with that chip on his shoulder and those rose coloured specs it is a wonder he ever gets to any gigs.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 01:38 PM

Iains - why do you bother...???

your sort of contributions will go down much better
preaching to the converted on far right youtube channels, etc..
But most of us just laugh you off as a ludicrous stereotype...

I acknowledge that occasionally you can talk sense,
and present uncomfortable truths
for some of the most stubborn labour supporters..

But, most of the time you're like listening to someone with chronic flatulence sat on a squeaky chair...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 01:44 PM

Around 75% of constituencies that were won by the Conservatives in the 2017 general election voted to Leave, while around 61% of Labour constituencies voted to Leave.

and what percentage, pray, understand statistics?

On a simplistic calculation from those figures somewhere like 68% voted "Leave". Even allowing for the stupid way of telling it, is a BIG discrepancy. But then ----------- Statistics tell you what you want to believe. Providing you cherry-pick the data.

I don't remember being taken to task for describing politics as a belief system. And as such is 100% a religion. Evidenced based of course.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 02:16 PM

”Your recollection of the British industrial scene are so much at variance with the facts BWM, that I assumed it was merely your biassed point of view.”

Ever heard the one about ‘pot’ and ‘kettle’? My recollections are the facts, they’re just not your ‘facts’ because they don’t support your illogical hatred of the EU.

”And I don't see much to change my opinion”

That’s because your view is blocked by the chip(s) on your shoulder(s).

”.Most factories in the Notts Derby - hosiery, textile, engineering - had a well motivated workforce that did their damndest to support their managements..”

Where have I said otherwise? Links please.

”Why you guys hate the English working class so much, I don't know. Obviously you think the economy of the country will be fine without them. Lets hope you're right.”

I haven’t a clue where that came from, but you really are just making stuff up. It’s quite galling that I’m accused of ‘hating the English (sic) working class’ by someone sitting comfortably in his leafy Dorset Idyll, while I’m living where I’ve always lived - in a former industrialised Midlands market town where that industry was destroyed back in the ‘70s, and which has one of the lowest per capita income-levels in the UK.

I am ‘Working Class’ - you barely know me, and you certainly don’t know me well enough to make that kind of judgment. If you did know me, and my life-history, well enough your judgment of me would be very different.

Once again - stop making stuff up - it’s extremely offensive, and it’s making you look very foolish indeed.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jul 19 - 02:19 PM

Pfr - three excellent posts. Respect, man! ;-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 04:32 AM

Seems labour is intent on tearing its self apart. "More than 30 whistleblowers including current members of staff will submit evidence to the equalities watchdog’s examination of Labour antisemitism, amid warnings that the party had failed to grasp the seriousness of the investigation.

The revelation comes after eight former members of staff went public in a BBC Panorama programme alleging consistent interference in the disputes process by senior Labour aides."

The above from the Gruniard so it must be true?
Meanwhile: A fresh video has been unearthed of Jeremy Corbyn apparently speaking at a Labour event last October. Corbyn gives his response to “some criticisms made of us in the right-wing media over the last Summer”. As in, the massive anti-Semitism and IHRA storm that raged around him all of last summer and has not gone away:

    “It doesn’t bother me. Nothing keeps me awake at night anyway, I frankly don’t care.”

Compo is in his twilight period as leader I suspect. Corbyn may not care but it is now in the hands of the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 06:41 AM

A Jewish member of the house of lords - a Rabbi..

was interviewed on BBC news yesterday and said something along the kines of..

"..it does seem more than a coincidence that eight people come forward with the same complaint..??"


yes it does.. doesn't it...??

..imagine that, eight folks rehearsed and perfected on the same pre-agreed & colluded script...????

See, without evidence to the contrary, there is more than one way of interpreting the words of a group of complainants...

genuine or malicious... will we ever know the truth...!!???


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 07:10 AM

By the sound of it. Labour has achieved perfection.

1) On the right side of the Brexit problem
2) No antisemitism
3) A wise and decent man as leader.

Even with those pesky right wing media types and eight right wing stinkers in a conspiracy against Labour, I reckon you must be pretty confident of a landslide victory - what with them being so right about everything.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 07:32 AM

Al - now is not a time for absolutist certainty...


Minds that are made up and closed may be comforting,
blinkers may shield the eyes,
but they don't immunise from the realities of political skulduggery...

The labour party may be in a dire condition,
but abject negativity like yours won't help heal it for us and the next generation...

Tell us, do you relish the prospect of permanent tory govt until your final days...???

Tommy Robinson will be out in less than three months and back on the campaign
to push our political 'norms' even further right...

Disaffected working class folks love him...

How do you fancy that as a new order...???


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 07:35 AM

From the last post, you will gather that I'm not really expecting the party I have voted for all my life to score a famous victory. However - who knows - perhaps you are right in every particular.

My Father once explained something to me. In the second world war - the two gambling games most favoured by his regiment were brag (three card and nine card a Napoloeon (sometimes called Nap - occasionally pontoon - but the brag and nap were the favourites.

Dad said to me, Alan - these are games of chance, Very little skill involved. Its just the run of the cards. Now- if you find yourself in a game where you don't win a hand all night - the chances are that you are being cheated. Two nights and its definite - just walk away from the table.

Later in life we had a member of our family who found himself unable to walk away. He was suffering from a masochistic mental illness. He involved the family in many thousands of pounds worth of debt. Although finally you will be pleased to hear - he was cured - but it lasted maybe six years. All that time - never having any money - very lucky not to lose his wife and family.

Now if that was a a mental disease - just having to be part of the only game in town

In forty years we have been sat at the table - we have lost the fishing industry, the textile industry, the car industry, the steel industry, the ship building and repair industry, the motor bike industry, the dumper truck industry, the hosiery industry and so on.

No its not a panacea. We should have been much richer if we had not sat down at the table.

And if I have a chip on my shoulder - Ithink some people have a block of wood more centrally located.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: bobad
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 07:48 AM

It never bodes well for a political party when it is taken over by extremists.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 08:01 AM

Err... like Boris Johnson you mean? I agree.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 08:03 AM

We should have been much richer if we had not sat down at the table.

Pure speculation Al. The only known fact is that we, as individuals and as a country, are far richer now than we were when we joined. Yes, some people lost their jobs. Some industry was lost. Many got new jobs. We got new industries. Overall we are better off now than we ever were and had it not been for unregulated banks, austerity and Tory mismanagement, it would be even better.

But let's suppose for a minute that you are right and, had we have not joined the EU, we would have been not just richer but absolutely rolling in it. Would we have had the cultural links we now have with Europe? The scientific cooperation? The combined security? I am not even going to try a guess. We have what we have. It has faults but is good. Rather than throw it away, why not fix it?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 08:21 AM

"In forty years we have been sat at the table - we have lost the fishing industry, the textile industry, the car industry, the steel industry, the ship building and repair industry, the motor bike industry, the dumper truck industry, the hosiery industry and so on."

But to what extent have those old industries and technologies also been in decline
around the rest of the world...???

Now in 2019, in a world facing imminent ecological crisis,
the writing should be on the wall for most if not all of them...

Clinging onto the ancient belief in "our nationhood" is a damaging impediment
to peoples of all the world co-operating and coordinating the continued survival of both our species and planet...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 08:48 AM

But to what extent have those old industries and technologies also been in decline
around the rest of the world...???



I bet Max could tell us how buoyant, or to put is more accurately, non-existent the steel industry of Allegheny, Pittsburgh is. And Detroit residents could tell you something too. The only thing keeping the car industry solvent is the Chelsea Tractor (or should that be Manhattan Tractor?)

We are a nation much like Texas regards itself, maybe moreso. Outside of Europe we will be ................. YEA, watch this space, but don those rose coloured specs - I have countless pairs of them you can borrow - but not the 4 prescription ones - I want to see clearly with a hint of optimism.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 08:57 AM

A statement by Momentum, endorsed by Jewish Voice For Labour.

As a public broadcaster the BBC has a duty to be impartial. Yet it has employed the former Sun journalist and Corbyn critic John Ware to direct tonight’s documentary. His greatest hits include:

The widely criticised 2015 Panorama documentary that made false claims about Jeremy Corbyn.
A documentary described by the Muslim Council of Britain as “an anti-muslim witch hunt” and in the Guardian as “McCarthyite”.
Another documentary about British muslims that the BBC had to apologise for and pay compensation.
A film about the ‘hard left’ running local schools which was criticised in the BBCs own magazine for abandoning “any attempt at a reasoned, detached, analytic or investigative programme”.
It’s clear John Ware has an anti-Labour agenda and he should not have been employed to direct a ‘fair and impartial’ documentary about Labour."


I'd also reiterate that Ware sat quietly nodding his head at each "whistleblower," failing to make a single challenge or ask for relevant details of any of the accusations. Whatever kind of journalism it was, the word "investigative" would be the least appropriate description.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 09:17 AM

”And if I have a chip on my shoulder - Ithink some people have a block of wood more centrally located.”

I won’t dignify that little gem with a response, other than to say I hope it’s made you feel better.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 09:23 AM

Is this what happens when the beeb is forced to sub-contact program making
to independent production companies...???


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 09:42 AM

More likely part of a campaign to bring about a one-party State.

Presumably the BBC don’t have to show any programme they’re not happy with. One can only assume they were happy with a one-sided programme in which accusations against the party of Her Majesty’s Opposition went unchallenged.

Strange thing is, it seems to be an issue almost completely confined to the Westminster Bubble - people I’ve discussed ‘Labour Anti-Semitism’ with, of all political persuasions, don’t seem to care a jot, other than as a means to unseat Corbyn. No real sympathy for the complainants, most see it as just an anti-Corbyn, anti-Labour Point-scoring opportunity.

It really is time for the LP to man-up and do whatever’s necessary to put this issue to bed. Then they can get on with their day-job of opposing and challenging the worst government I can remember since I achieved voting age - including The Beast of Grantham’s bunch.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 10:21 AM

BBC have put Fiona Bruce in charge of question time, of course they are happy with a one-sided programme.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 11:10 AM

And that’s the main reason I never watch it nowadays.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 11:18 AM

What's so confusing is why the far out far right are so entrenched in their hatred for the beeb,
which they accuse of being so PC/SJW/marxist
that it must be run by Lenin and Stalin from the grave...!!!???


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 11:29 AM

'The labour party may be in a dire condition,
but abject negativity like yours won't help heal it for us and the next generation...'

well we can agree about that.
But I really don't know what the answer is...   They're chucking out and de-selecting anyone who won't toe this latest party line. I think to be honest - We just have to let Corbyn take the party to the iceberg and down to the seabed. Perhaps theres a John Smith character hidden somewhere in the wings.

As for Tommy Robinson being beloved of working classes - I think its a bit like football hooliganism. I think you might be surprised how many posh boys like that sort of rumble.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 12:05 PM

Al - I'm just an outsider with opinions on the Labour party..
..besides, my vote for 'em is always futile in Scrumpyshire...

I'd suggest the Labour broad church has become far too broad,
and needs reigning in a fair bit..

There are too many factions of single issue pressure groups cluttering up and festering inside the party.
They need pruning back, or told to shut up...

Labour needs to concentrate again on it's roots and essential reasons for being...

Folks who become members of the Labour party should be only that,
not a member of a group within a group, etc, within the party,
prioritising their obsessive single issue over the well being and success of the Labour party acheiving government...

If I joined Labour to become an activist for 'fat balding scrumpy drinker friends of Labour',
and spent all my time moaning to the press that Corbyn
is biased and hostile to my special needs group.
That the more I make myself a pain in the arse disrupting the party and creating division,
the more nasty tweets I unfairly get.
Then demand everyone in the party who don't like scrumpy should be expelled..
That don't really make for a healthy electable opposition party...

They should join to be Labour members first and foremost,
and leave their extra curricular obsessive side issues outside in the bike shed...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 12:17 PM

Absolutely spot on, pfr.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 12:18 PM

ooh.. I just remembered some words.. "unity" and "solidarity"..

There were other words a bit like that, also forgotten and lost in the mist of time....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 12:25 PM

I'll add "self discipline" and "self restraint"...

No individual's obsessions should be imposed on the smooth running and order of Labour
as a mass collective striving for a better life for all us ordinary folks...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 01:07 PM

Well the problem with your anaysis - so sycophantically endorsed, is that one of the reasons we have a stable society in England is that both major parties are broad churchches.

General elections are decided by the winning or losing of forty three marginal constituencies.

Pruning away your support ....well its a policy that could only recommend itself to the wood burning brain cells of the middle classes.

However nothing succeeds like success. If Corbyn is successful having pruned away his support, I will be intrigued.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 01:29 PM

Al - you seem too keen to find fault and sneer at other people's ideas,
if they don't correspond to your distorted perspective of how things are and should be..

I'd have thought you'd be happier if fewer middle class academic fanatics
were holding back labour by the short and curlies...???


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 01:44 PM

and now Diane Abbot is calling for the resignation of Mr Watson. This would suggesr that both she and compo are in complete denial of the allegations of antisemitism. Thus would seem an exceedingly bizarre attitude in light of the fact the party is under investigation by the EHCR. £ Labour peers have resigned the whip, panorama has 30 whistleblowers and the official line of the party would seem t obe a rerun of Canute!
As an opposition party they are more suited to a circus.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 01:47 PM

Iains - thanks for another list of 'breaking news' to regard with cautious suspicion,
until more evidence comes to light...

you are an invaluable resource...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 02:13 PM

By no means. Possibly I am totally wrong - a Brexshitter with a chip on my shoulder.

I loved that bit in wolf Hall

Thomas More: Are you threatening me....?
Thomas Cromwell: My turn...don't you think?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 02:22 PM

...eh...???

If I may call you Al.. I'll call you Al...

We can leave the playground insults to to other folk's who enjoy them...
Nothing to be gained from bitter internecine disputes with other Labour voters,
current or former...

I'll reserve my fullest sarcasm for tories...
a more deserving target...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 02:33 PM

Pfr you know I only post facts,
You will find the proof on guido as video and retweeted tweets.

As a special bonus you will find that Mr Banks is going ahead and taking action against the Gruniard hack.
"Last month Arron Banks warned Carole Cadwalladr that he was initiating libel action against her over her claims that he had a “covert relationship” with and had been offered money by the Russian Government. Over 14 days have passed and Carole has failed to respond – Banks has now formally initiated proceedings in the High Court. Banks insists that there is no truth to her claims whatsoever, and he’s had enough…

Banks is suing Carole on two grounds over two separate speeches she made, Carole’s claims are expected to be giving another airing in an upcoming Netflix documentary called The Great Hack. If Netflix repeat the claim Banks will, according to Andy Wigmore, be suing them too…"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 02:42 PM

Iains - I regard you as two entities..

the upstairs Iains who sounds like an interesting bloke,
a mine of information..

and the BS Iains who is a blatant propagandist and unintentional source of chuckles..

I'll even give you, some of your sarcasm, your intentional humour, gains a smile sometimes...

Facts/guido...??????????????????? cue audience hysterics..


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 02:56 PM

Al, you’re wasting your time - you won’t provoke me with your nasty, spiteful little schoolgirl jibes and judgmental attitude, because you know very little about me to judge me by, and anyway I don’t give a FF what you think of me. Your extremely wide-of-the-mark judgments say far more about you than they do about me.

Now, you keep rattling on about ‘the middle classes’, and you’ve accused me and others of beng ‘middle-class’ and ‘hating the working class’ - hilarious in view of my identifying as ‘working class’ having been born to parents who were engineering shop-floor workers, growing up and living the first thirty years of my life in a council house, a house which my parents lived in the whole of their married life, being a trade-union member for many years and still supporting the trade-union movement,

You have a habit of judging others based on very little knowledge of them, other than the fact that they disagree with you, and classifying them, presumably, according to a set of arbitrary ‘rules’ known only to you and completely unknown to those whom you set yourself in judgment over.

So let’s knock this jusdgmental bullshit off - let’s have your definition of ‘the middle classes’, Tell us what are the attributes you believe makes an individual ‘middle class’, and I’ll tell you whether I qualify in each case.

I’ll start you off - I don’t have, nor have I a desire for, a wood-burner.....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 03:18 PM

When I was a kid, my mum used to take the piss out of pretentious neighbours down the road,
who boasted about their fitted carpets, and telly that could pick up BBC2...

I now have fitted carpets.. and a big color telly with gazillions of channels..

.. oh dear...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 03:27 PM

A sign of the changing times, pfr, and an indication that, despite the efforts of those nasty foreign johnnies in the EU to do us down, as a nation we’re far better off than we were back in the ‘good old days’ of the ‘50s and ‘60s.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 03:45 PM

I forgot to mention.. our aspirational lifestyle neighbours
had the house at the end of the terrace..
A semi detached council house, with a far bigger garden than all the others...

Well, at least I still live in the middle of a terrace,
with no gardens at all...

You won't find me out mowing a lawn, washing the company car,
and moaning about immigrants buying the house next door, lowering property values.........


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 03:45 PM

Of course we are BWM. I am truly gobsmacked by the claims that the "working class" have lost out over the last 50 years. Everybody is much better off. The argument that is that others have gained more than you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 04:35 PM

'Al, you’re wasting your time - you won’t provoke me with your nasty, spiteful little schoolgirl jibes and judgmental attitude'

Says the man who drops Brexshitter into the conversation at every opportunity.

I can see that a lot of you aren't aware of are the fact, but there is a lot of profound poverty in our society. The poverty traps are deeper the distances you and your children fall are probably the worst in a hundred years, All of it due to the hard drugs industry that has taken root because jobs for the uneducated are not so plentiful.

I can see why you feel the way you do - how can someone with access a colour television be poor?

All I can say is I don't think its me who is being judgemental and failing to see why we need to face up to our problems and do something about them.

Is Boris the answer. Of course not. But sadly neither is Corbyn.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 05:09 PM

”I can see that a lot of you aren't aware of are the fact, but there is a lot of profound poverty in our society. The poverty traps are deeper the distances you and your children fall are probably the worst in a hundred years, All of it due to the hard drugs industry that has taken root because jobs for the uneducated are not so plentiful.”

I’m not going into the reasons why, I’ll just tell you - do NOT lecture me, from your cosy Dorset Idyll, about the hard drugs industry - I have more experience of it, at very close quarters, and the devastation it causes than a know-it-all, know-fuck-all like you, and this is another perfect example of your utterly misplaced judgmentalism about people you don’t even know. If you did actually know me, and what my life experiences have been, you wouldn’t make up unfounded lies about me, you wouldn’t make these outrageous, unjustified judgments, and you wouldn’t stoop so low as to use the subject of hard drugs to try to provoke me.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 05:33 PM

I have two wood burners and a half-acre garden. I am a socialist. I drink prosecco and Nero d'Avola. I'll get me coat.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 06:18 PM

I just had a sausage sarnie, and reheated chips leftover from last night...

My Grammar school headmaster would despair how I turned out..

You can take the boy out of the council estate, but...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 07:36 PM

Aye, well we 'ad it tough...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 08:09 PM

I don'tr know much about the actual details of your life. I know you've had some experience - but that doesn't mean you have more than me.

I lived the majority of my life in the midlands. I've retired to Dorset, which strangely enough hasn't as yet become a separate part of the UK and shares many of its problems. The back streets and Park area of Weymouth ;;;

oh why the fuck should I lower myself to argue with such a closed bloody minded insulting high horse riding tripehound.

You see no connection with people not having employment with the drugs trade, Every sociologist since the first world war would disagree with you.

Go ahead vote for the dissolution of of our society. I'm allowed to disagree with you. I'm allowed to be better informed than you. I shouldn't have put up with your your abuse and non arguments. Perhaps we'd be better off eschewing contact with each other


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jul 19 - 09:26 PM

"You see no connection with people not having employment with the drugs trade"

errrr.. who doesn't...???

Heroin was unknown amongst our young provincial social circle before thatcher...

Up until her we were so relaxed and innocent we'd leave our guitars and amps,
and personal bags unattended everywhere.

Within a couple of years of thatcher, nothing was safe from being nicked..

Heroin made life very dark..

Even our in our small town we soon enough had friends/musicians/band members who were using...

Al - you aint got a monopoly on post thatcher misery and squalor...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jul 19 - 04:50 AM

And that's why I've objected so strongly to the stuff Al's thrown around here - his belief that he's the only open-minded one who recognises facts, and that everyone else, especially me, is closed-minded and living in a dream world. Whereas the overwhelming evidence is quite the reverse.

For the record, my eldest son has been a heroin-addict for over twenty years and is still on methadone. His own life has been wrecked by it, and the lives of his mother, brother, and I have been a living hell.

In addition, I worked with young people from a 'tough' estate and wider for twelve years, including a significant number of substance-abusers, sexual-abuse victims, you name it, providing distraction, counselling, and friendship in a 'safe' environment.

I believe I'm as qualified as anyone here to understand the nature and causes of drug-addiction.

"Perhaps we'd be better off eschewing contact with each other"

No 'perhaps' about it - for once, I completely agree.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jul 19 - 10:40 AM

Iains - I voted Labour, I voted Remain.
I am not member of the Labour Party, I do not follow their position

There is no way you can possibly accuse me of supporting leave...
There is no way you can accuse any Labour voter who also voted Remain, who is not a member of the labour Party,
of supporting Leave..

Ergo, you are talking out of your arse when you infer that every Labour voter supports leave...

WE non members vote in the vain hope of kicking the tories out,
we do not necessarily support all Labour positions and directives advised to their members...!!!

You can split hairs in your realm of abstract statistical theorising,
but in the real world you are simply wrong...

But we understand how much your ilk depend on the fantasy demon of a Stalinistic Labour Party...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jul 19 - 10:47 AM

.. and I daresay a significant number of Labour members will not take too kindly
to their party insisting that they support Leave when they decry the very idea of it..

Oh.. they didn't.. and they still don't.. and now apparently they won't have to for the next election...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 07:02 AM

Iains - what I hinted at before I went to bed, I will now make more explicit...

YOU are a good 30 to 40 years behind the times...
Your use by date has expired.
Educated people have been well aware of your propaganda methods
since they were closely studied by young students
way back in the early 1980s.
Since then such studies filtered down from higher education into schools.

You ae so blatant and identifiable in your motives, methodology, and objectives
that you cancel yourself out.
What's most comical is how ineffectual you are by choosing mudcat
as your soapbox.
Whatever you think you are achieving with your anti-left propaganda
is wasted here.
We are not thick enough to fall for it.

You insult our intelligence, but make up for it by being a daily source of chuckles...

If you were a Russian backed 'bot', as some here seem to believe,
you're not very good at it.
If you are, as seems just as likely, an 'influencer' mouthpiece of the internaionally organized campaign
for spreading of right wing ideology
on the internet.
Then by all means carry on wasting your efforts here...
At least you are not abusing vulnerable young minds elsewhere...
..well.. I hope you are not...???

If given a choice between keeping you or Jim [for all his faults..] it's an easy choice to make...
..and that is not just about politics.
Jim is a valuable expert on the primary subject matter of mudcat - folk music -
You are only here to spread negativity and hostility...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 07:46 AM

Jim - here's an interesting news item, fairly local to where I live...

targeted by a suspected pro-Brexit troll farm


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 08:20 AM

I realise full how the press has taken sides in all this and, as most of them are of the right persuasion, it's pretty easy ot sort out what's what
I get the Times (for Codeword) and I have never seen a once reliable source of news plummmet into an openly extremist hate=-rag the way it has.

Nie bit of 'fake news' this morning
Theresa May has accsed Donald Trump of open racism for telling the black women Democrats that they should "go back and help fix" their own "broken and crime infested countries"." - I wonder which side our resident Trumpeter will take on this one (I don't really)
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 08:20 AM

I don't know if you remember, PFR, but a while back right wing trolls got hold of many people's profiles from Mudcat and elsewhere and created false Facebook profiles in a feeble attempt to fight back against the "Folk against Fascism" movement. The whole thing backfired. Nick Griffin, who instigated it, crawled back into the cesspit he came from. His attack dog, a folk musician known to some on here, got caught and I believe did some time for it. He occasionally still comes on here and uses other people's names to try and shitstir but everyone is wise to it now. It seems that right wing extremism is on the rise everywhere and its fanboys on here try to join in with the big lads but fail miserably. You have the right idea. Just point and laugh :-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 08:43 AM

DtG - vaguely remember all that.
It was around the same time one of the B'n'P fancied himself as a wannabe folk singer.
British folk as they saw it being the true music of nationalists.
They organized at least one 'family friendly' nationalist music festival
to try to win over hearts and minds...

When I first joined mudcat, I also tended to associate factions of folk music with the reactionary right..

But I'd hope that any still breathing have grown too old and feeble to any longer be such a real problem...???


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 08:45 AM

whoops.. accidently presssed enter before finishing off that scrappy 1st draft...
but it'll have to do...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 08:51 AM

Aye, that was the one. Chumbawamba did a brilliant song about when Griffin tried to dance Morris.

Dance, Idiot, Dance

Enjoy :-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 10:31 AM

There's an intersting online review of the new documentary movie "The Brink"...

I'd suggest watching the relevant part of this first..

[because if I remember correctly the clip is a bit diffeent and includes extra footage...???]

Then the more in depth review ...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 10:39 AM

"Over 200 current and former Labour staff and supporters write to condemn Labour’s handling of the Panorama documentary"

out of a very approximate total of over half a million... approx 0.04%...

So even if we gave the 200 benefit of the doubt about their motives,
there are far worse problems's for Labour to prioritise
in the real world outside of media outrage,
and far right cynical opportunism.....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 10:44 AM

Lots of chumming the waters with weasel words and trumped up "facts." Stop feeding trolls and the thread may last.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 12:19 PM

Change hands...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 12:37 PM

101... or 100... or 99.. etc.. if this thread gets any more deIainsified...

well it now smells a lot fresher in here...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 12:45 PM

DtG - I was saying before the purge, that song is now nearly 10 years old...

wow.. time fly's eh...???

It only seems like yesterday I was a mere fresh faced young 50 year old, optimistically looking forward to 2010,
and a new decade of fun and frolics...

Never mind... 2020 soon..

We can have another fresh start at looking forward to the future...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 01:23 PM

Blimey. Doesn't time fly when you're enjoying yourself :-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 01:31 PM

As I am not a supporter of Labour it is of no interest to me if the party wants to continue to self destruct by not addressing the accusations it faces, or managing some sort of coherence on it's Brexit policy. It is patently obvious that unity is not a goal that Labour aims for. It is a self evident fact that it will cost them votes. Denying these problems does not diminish them or make them go away.
As I do not support any political party I can take a dispassionate view. Labour to my mind is doing all in its power to aid its opposition. This is not a winning tactic!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 01:49 PM

Labour has to deal with both sides of its leadership and membership otherwise it will end up as fragmented and impotent as the Tory Part which is now on the point of self-destruct
Even the Tory leadership issue is threatened by a revolt which intends to bring down whoever is elected if they don't toe the line - whichever line that is
It little behooves a Tory supporter to advise Labour on its future in those circumstances
Are you serious !!!
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 01:57 PM

"...it is of no interest to me if the party wants to continue to self destruct..."

Who are you kidding? "Of no interest"? You're completely obsessed!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 03:11 PM

"You're completely obsessed!"
His hatred of Labour (and anything to the left of Attila the Hun challenges that of obsessive Rupert Murdoch
im Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 03:18 PM

'i do not support a political party's

Perhaps because there is not one quite right wing enough?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 03:39 PM

...it is of no interest to me if the party wants to continue to self destruct..."

...he gasped, as he approached orgasm....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jul 19 - 11:27 AM

...he gasped, as he approached orgasm....

What a sad fellow, but you doappear tobe slowly losing your anal fixation. Presumably the new medication is working.

An interesting snippet:
"Labour and Lib Dem parties will only be able to enact their policy of slapping VAT on independent schools if the UK leaves the EU. Article 132 of EU Directive 2006/112/EC compels member states to exempt a number of areas from Value Added Tax being levied on them, including “the provision of children’s or young people’s education, school or university education”. Controlling your own tax policy or being a member of the EU, you can’t have both…" What a shower!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 04:19 AM

A surprising add in the Guardian today, without precedent I would think! Talk about washing dirty laundry in public!

More than sixty Labour peers have taken out an advertisement accusing Jeremy Corbyn of having “failed the test of leadership” over his handling of antisemitism complaints within the party.

The peers, including more than a dozen former ministers such as Peter Hain, Beverley Hughes and John Reid, have addressed the advert in the Guardian to Corbyn directly, saying: “The Labour party welcomes everyone* irrespective of race, creed, age, gender identity, or sexual orientation. (*except, it seems, Jews). This is your legacy, Mr Corbyn.”

Representing about a third of Labour’s members in the House of Lords, the signatories told Corbyn the party was “no longer a safe place for all members” and claimed that thousands have resigned their membership “because of the toxic culture you have allowed to divide our movement”.

The advert has been taken out amid a backlash within the party about the leadership’s response to a BBC Panorama documentary that aired last week, in which eight former staff members accused the Labour of failing to tackle complaints about antisemitism properly and allowing Corbyn’s office to get involved in disputes.


Wkth divisions on this and brexit, Labour is a spent force!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 04:49 AM

No attacks on Jews - no antiemitism
Never gets more difficult than that

"Labour is a spent force!"
In your dreams
Corbyn has more support from the rank and file membership than any other political leader
Your party can't even drum up support among its own MPs without giving a Party with terrorist connections a £1 billion bung
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 05:31 AM

support-for-jeremy-corbyn-labour-plummets-to-lowest-level-in-polling-history-2019-7

https://www.businessinsider.com/support-for-jeremy-corbyn-labour-plummets-to-lowest-level-in-polling-history-2019-7?r=US&IR=T


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 05:44 AM

An interesting view on what’s actually going on here...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 05:52 AM

Pointing to the problems of one party in the face of what's happened to Parliamentary politics is simply propagandizing nonsense
The Tories have no support within or without Westminster and they are now poised between appointing one of to clowns as Prime Minister
The governing party has now lost two Prime Ministers because of Brexit and the next one is facing threats of a vote of no confidence if he doesn't pleasee all sides in a seriously divided Perty
The campaign to dislodge Corbyn on a trumped up antisemitism charge has fallen flat as it was bound to as, rather being about the Jewish people, is in fact an attempt of the Labour Parliamentary right to rid itself of Socialist policies - the death throes of Blair's New Labour
THIS IS WHAT THE DISPUTE IN THE LABOUR PARTY IS ABOUT

Gavin Shuker is a right winger who opposes Socialist Policies, opposed gay marriage and equality for homosexuals and supports religious fundamentalism in his Bristol constituency
He represents New Lanbour's good old days of Right wing Labour and career politics
Jim Caarrol


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 07:21 AM

Do you think the Guardian lost it's moral scruples and has sold out to Mammon by taking a full page ad on Labour antisemitism?

Or could it be the Guardian finds the allegations undeniable?

Either choice unpalatable for some here.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 11:04 AM

Iains - Obviously you are very selective about what you ignore in our threads...

Wasn't it only a day or two ago I evaluated and dismissed the guardian as a paper
for smug middle class liberals...

Though to maximise sales, it also tries to appeal to the periphery of it's core liberal readership
aiming at a secondary target market of tory wets and blairites..

So.... THE GUARDIAN IS NOT A LABOUR PAPER...

repeat until this is lodged in your narrow mind...

If the guardian does ever publish an actively pro Corbyn opinion piece
it is only to attract further additional occasionl sales to lefties who can afford to buy it...

Therefore, I couldn't give a shit about what the guardian prints about Corbyn as leader of the labour party...
The editorial bias of the guardian does not particularly like Corbyn..

The only significant positive thing to say about the guardian, is at least it's not a completely blatant hard right propaganda bumrag
like the obvious usual suspects...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 11:08 AM

Unlike the sewer press, The Guardian opens its columns to all views and certainly does not censor its adverts politically
It carries regular articles by right wing Labour supporters,
Unike the accusation by Muslims against the tories, The Labour Party has acted on the accusations publicly - nothing to hide so far
Now anti Jewish attacks, no Antisemitism (though it is antisemitic to suggest that accusing critics of Israel is anti-semitic, as you have done

Wonder if your friend, Donald the Don's Party will treat the findings of te House of Representitives findings that Donald the Degenerate has made racist statements against black congresswomen as seriously
Waddya think !!
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 11:10 AM

Iains - Btw.. try to smarm your way out of it, but BWM summed you up good and proper..

errrmmm.. this is not an image I want for long in my head,
but you very well could be sat there typing one handed
as you fantasise about the labour party on it's hands and knees bare-arsed,
whilst you, clad head to toe in rubber and PVC, administer it a jolly good caning...

.. typical public school & tory S&M wet dreams...


PS.. Predictable complaints and backlash*
[* pun unintended, but an understandable subconcious association of ideas and words...]

about Labour's hope of making school education a fairer playing field..

Now imagine the outcry from old etonian tories if Corbyn were to propose a higher rate of tax
on birch canes, studded leather paddles, and dominatrix & gimp outfits...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 11:14 AM

From the Guardian:

The Guardian’s election editorial has come out in strong support of Labour. The editorial welcomes the enthusiasm of Jeremy Corbyn on the campaign trail so far, contrasting the Labour leader’s energy with the lacklustre performance of Theresa May.

Now you was sayin like?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 11:18 AM

Iains - don't always believe what you read in the papers...

It's not like we've never encountered two faced liberals
trying to sit on the fence keeping their selfish options open...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 11:20 AM

.. but at least liberals and labour would both prefer to see the tories out of govt...

Unless a tory govt buys them off with a nominal share of power...

..just saying like...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 11:50 AM

I do just love the way you check your facts before posting and your sheer arrogance.

I am a leftie therefore what I think is correct.
Any link that contradicts my leftie position I will have deleted.

Those that have the temerity to argue the leftist position will be bullied into submission, extensively insulted and/or banned.

and yet you wonder why below the line is toxic!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 12:15 PM

Iains - do what...!!!???

In over a decade and a half of mudcat membership I have made it very clear
I am firmly opposed to censorship and deletions...

I am also an objective rational kind of chap
who believes skepticsm and doubt gets closer to understanding the nature of 'facts'
than any amount of dogmatic absolute certainty..

So, I will now state as personal opinion rather than fact,
that you are squirming and deflecting with your usual old bollocks again..
Though I don't hide that I honestly think mine is a well considered and educated opinion...

Also, I don't need to wonder why it's toxic down here.
It's obvious why.. you are proof enough...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 12:44 PM

The advert was paid for. It was not news or editorial. It did not say Corbyn was antisemitic. Just that he was failing in his leadership, which is entirely a matter of opinion. The fact that it was written and paid for by a group of parliamentary peers who could afford a full page advert in a national paper speaks volumes about their motives. Just consider who will benefit and who will lose most in a Corbyn led Labour administration. I am pretty sure that rich career politicians are worried. Hence the barely concealed hatchet job.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 02:26 PM

Just remind me, is this thread about Labour the party of remain or not?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 02:39 PM

"I am a leftie therefore what I think is correct."
As distinct from your total contempt for anything left you mean
Whence the difference ?
"Any link that contradicts my leftie position I will have deleted."
As you do constantly, you mean ?
"and yet you wonder why below the line is toxic!"
Said the feller who has personally abused everybody who disagrees with him from the day he joined the forum
Bit late to make accusations like that I would have thought
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Jul 19 - 03:15 PM

Hang about! Some of you good people are doing the mods a great disservice. By reacting in the same manner as the troll you are allowing him to continue in the same on obnoxious way. If YOU stop posting like that it will undermine his entire presence.

It's not that difficult to comprehend.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 19 Jul 19 - 11:07 AM

Next week an emergency meeting of Labour peers will be held in response to Baroness Hayter's dismissal as a shadow Brexit minister, after she reportedly compared the approach of Mr Corbyn's staff to that of "the bunker" in Downfall, a 2004 film depicting Adolf Hitler's final days.

They will consider a motion calling for a no confidence vote in Mr Corbyn.

If passed, a ballot would then be held of all Labour peers.

I think I prefer to keep Compo Corbyn as the cabbage patch king a while longer yet. He admirably plays the role of useful idiot.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jul 19 - 11:12 AM

Iain's - Funny how you suddenly turn up
within minutes of not so favourable posts regarding your obsessions being deleted...???


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jul 19 - 11:35 AM

btw.. is it just me who finds titles such as 'Baroness' anathema for a Labour party...???

I'd dread to think such self important pretensions go to their heads...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 19 Jul 19 - 02:01 PM

Iain's - Funny how you suddenly turn up
within minutes of not so favourable posts regarding your obsessions being deleted...???


Another one for the mods to deal with please. I could make a detailed response but prefer not to.

The cabal's sexual and anal obsessions are best left alone.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jul 19 - 02:43 PM

Big bully kid writing complaints to teacher when his victims fight back...

Did you take the coloured crayons off a smaller kid...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jul 19 - 04:48 PM

Comment in green is unfunny, inappropriate and uncalled for, as well as anonymous. And giving succour to a troll.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jul 19 - 05:57 PM

aha.. I've just twigged...

green = mod...

The green words fit in so well in context,
it read as if Iains was still burbling away on his own trajectory to nowhere relevant.....


"cabal" - a secret political clique or faction.

So secret in fact, I don't even know if I'm a member of it...!!!???


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jul 19 - 06:22 PM

You're not. None of us are. Someone is negatively and seriously obsessed. But anonymity is a useful defence against the naming of names. As if I don't know.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 20 July 12:23 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.