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BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?

Donuel 28 Apr 19 - 02:51 PM
Stilly River Sage 28 Apr 19 - 05:58 PM
Donuel 29 Apr 19 - 09:05 PM
Stilly River Sage 29 Apr 19 - 09:50 PM
Iains 30 Apr 19 - 03:07 AM
Donuel 30 Apr 19 - 06:29 AM
DMcG 30 Apr 19 - 07:49 AM
Stilly River Sage 01 May 19 - 06:27 PM
Donuel 02 May 19 - 05:46 AM
punkfolkrocker 02 May 19 - 10:49 AM
Donuel 02 May 19 - 07:54 PM
Little Hawk 03 May 19 - 02:26 AM
Donuel 03 May 19 - 06:29 AM
Donuel 03 May 19 - 10:22 AM
Little Hawk 03 May 19 - 12:10 PM
Donuel 04 May 19 - 12:16 PM
Little Hawk 04 May 19 - 04:53 PM
Donuel 04 May 19 - 05:36 PM
Donuel 05 May 19 - 09:35 AM
Donuel 05 May 19 - 10:09 AM
Little Hawk 05 May 19 - 12:28 PM
Raggytash 05 May 19 - 01:24 PM
punkfolkrocker 05 May 19 - 01:37 PM
Donuel 07 May 19 - 08:27 AM
Donuel 07 May 19 - 08:51 AM
Bill D 08 May 19 - 06:41 PM
punkfolkrocker 08 May 19 - 08:32 PM
Bill D 08 May 19 - 11:03 PM
Donuel 09 May 19 - 11:50 AM
Bill D 09 May 19 - 01:13 PM
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Subject: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 02:51 PM

personal use

I have been leaning toward an emerging universe and mind for a decade.
For years I have hinted at the quantum mind. How about you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Apr 19 - 05:58 PM

We are a nonprofit Christian organization with the goal of spreading and defending the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We primarily do this in video form. We create videos to showcase a library of content that is creative and fun, yet will possess significant theological depth. This ministry intends to specialize in reaching the current generation, as well as future generations, with the power of digital video, social media, and whatever new technologies the future may bring.

"Inspiring Philosophy is creating Christian Apologetic Videos"

Their gibberish pretends to be science. How long did you listen to this thing?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Apr 19 - 09:05 PM

Hiesenberg started this form of inquiry and the math backs it up. Space and time and gravity are not fundamental forces but are emergent energies from an underlying interaction.

As for the video it is a short, dumbed down, well made, simple and less dry than other cosmology classroom recordings.

I have watched many TED talks and PBS series concerning the emerging universe that have panalists who are leading physicists as well as a Bhuddist authority.

Yes you can say a visual equivalence of neural axion structures in the brain and the super structure of the visible universe is gibberish but I too have asked these questions. The resemblance has inspired my wonder for more than a decade. It may only have a fractal relationship. So?

I am made of this universe and feel the emergent theory has an organic truthful geometry the way some people feel about Gaia.
Seeing the universe in terms of emerging energy vectors may lead to a unification of general relativity and quantum mechanics. It does require us to think in non human terms.

I understand judging that particular video by its cover but I would not sell the concept short. Quantum tunneling, Quantum biology, Quantum micro tubuelles in our brain, Quantum mechanisms in photo sythesis are now proven science. Emerging space and time effects makes sense to me on a macro scale that is at the limits of an imagined big picture. If you can only think in terms of the standard model, that is awfully reductionist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Apr 19 - 09:50 PM

There is no math in that video and it's all doublespeak, leading up to one of the days in the biblical creation story.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Iains
Date: 30 Apr 19 - 03:07 AM

Well I opened the link but I noticed a further link on the right hand side. Fred Dibnah- Drinking and climbing.

I watched that instead- far more interesting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Apr 19 - 06:29 AM

Bill D is philosophy trained so I was looking for philosophical paralles. Sometimes science must take on a philosophical argument to advance science. If we can prove a theory falsifiable then we can look further. I am glad you helped.
"So lets burn 'that' video, its a witch its a witch!"
I have 4 hours of other recent video exploring the emergent universe from a physicist's more comfortable science pov.

Time? its a human thing
Space? its growing
Gravity? its born elsewhere and leaks its way here.

"Help help, the 2nd law of thermo dynamics principal has been violated,"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAScJvxCy2Y the science game in our reality


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Apr 19 - 07:49 AM

I do remember that Bill D said he was interested in the relationship between quantum theory and some parts of philosophy, particularly free will. If he does post, I am sure it will be interesting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 May 19 - 06:27 PM

Consider it a play on the search decades ago for the "god particle," in this case, it sounds like they're trying to talk the listener/reader around to a "god wall" - whatever is at the edge of everything must add up to their designated god.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Donuel
Date: 02 May 19 - 05:46 AM

Its good when religions latch onto science.
I see emergent universe theory as an offshoot of a hologram universe theory and is a layer below/above our 3D universe. To call anything a god particle or god stuff got lay folks involved.

Meanwhile

In the meantime... sideways Smiley Face (1982-2019)

Side ways Smiley Face died on April 30,2019, surrounded by his loved ones.
The cause of death was over-use. Born on a computer bullitin board at Carnigie Mellon University, Mr.Face devoted his life to pointing out that the previous sentence was meant to be satire or funny. He also gained world wide recognition for his tireless efforts as a glib substitute for the words "I am amused." His other interests included frwning and winking. He is survived by his children, Sideways Surprised Face, sideways Glasses Face, sideways ABE lINCOLN fACE, sideways Santa Face, sideways Pope face, his belived wife XOXO and his 271 imogee grandchildren. In lieu of flowers Mr. Face's family has requested people use actual words to express their feelings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 May 19 - 10:49 AM

When I was a little kid "The Incredible Shrinking Man" blew my mind...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Donuel
Date: 02 May 19 - 07:54 PM

Wow! It was much better than Ant Man.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 May 19 - 02:26 AM

Onroads. We have squirrels making onroads around here, specially in the Spring.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Donuel
Date: 03 May 19 - 06:29 AM

Well I'll be dipped in Coco Butter and polished to a high gloss.

NASDAQ : National Association for Squirrel Defense Against Quantization
is advocating for fines and jail time for flatening the long lived squirrel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Donuel
Date: 03 May 19 - 10:22 AM

Bill, by saying nothing, you have said everything.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 May 19 - 12:10 PM

Bill is a highly articulate man and can say either nothing...or everything...with great panache.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 19 - 12:16 PM

Yes indeed. The most interesting man in the world. He may even send a fax from the other side one day to settle ongoing disputes.

Meanwhile a toast to the perils of self betterment and living life well the first time without a dress rehearsal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 May 19 - 04:53 PM

Shane has attempted to better himself for many years by....

Telling lies.
Stealing vehicles.
Avoiding responsibility.
Attempting to seduce women in crude and obvious ways.
Avoiding all forms of work.
Eschewing cleanliness.
Breaking and entering.
Public drunkenness.
Lewd behavior.
Disrespect for civil laws and law enforcement.
Heavy smoking, drinking, and drug use.
Random acts of selfish stupidity.

If you ask him how it's working out, he'll say... "It's goin' good, eh?" (unless he's just been arrested) (in which case he'll say, "I got rights! I been falsely accused, eh?")


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 19 - 05:36 PM

New rules;

In America if you feel you are innocent, the police must stop the investigation and indictment.
Bill Barr Attorney General USA

"License and Registration. Do you know how fast you were going?"
Do you know how fast YOU were going?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 19 - 09:35 AM

Back to facts and philosophy;

Realism is real and uncertainty is certainly uncertain

We made a profound mistake in WW1 thinking and the mind set of QM

Borrowing ONLY that gravity and space are emergent may help improve QM and unify the realism of Einstein with the assumptions of Heienberg and Bohr.

At least thats the way I sees it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 19 - 10:09 AM

Questions of philosophy are equal to quesions of science.

Is time real?
Is tim an illusion?
Is truth timeless or only in the moment?
Does time emerge from timeless law?
Or does law emerge and evolve in time.
Is the future determined?
Or is it open?
Will we allow a furtyre extinction by way of global warming?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 May 19 - 12:28 PM

Tim is not an illusion. I had coffee with him awhile back, so I know he's real.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 May 19 - 01:24 PM

Just as an aside Donuel, what do you smoke?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 May 19 - 01:37 PM

In idle moments I imagine that the universe will eventually disapear up it's own bumhole,
instantaneously re-emerging anew from the other side somewhere else...

Space time bumhole theory...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 May 19 - 08:27 AM

I smoked a mariquana cigarette 30 years ago.
Also 30 years ago I ate sacred mushrooms in which questions have become a cherished part of my life. The questions persist.

These are just theoretical physics questions that require deep thought.

pfr Your notion is shared by Hindu religion, Buddism and cosmology that sees a stretching of space until a big entropy rip occurs and we vanish into a lower energy state.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 May 19 - 08:51 AM

btw Denver Colorado ( my old hang out) is voting today to decriminalize magic psilocybin mushrooms.

The writer of West Wing Arron Sorkin was arrested for possesion of mushrooms back in the day. What a waste.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Bill D
Date: 08 May 19 - 06:41 PM

Sorry, Don.. I missed this somehow. I'll take a look, but from SRS replies, I suspect what I'll find.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 May 19 - 08:32 PM

Donuel - I do have other bright ideas.. eureka moments to brighten the bordom of insomnia..

But I lack the vocabulary to explain them and forget what it was by morning...

I'm smart enough to know that if I thought up something,
then someone more qualified is bound to have already explored similar notions somewhere, at sometime...

I credit reading Dr Strange comics when I was 7 or 8
helped expand my mind years before teenage hash and shroom experimentation...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Bill D
Date: 08 May 19 - 11:03 PM

Ok,, I listened for awhile with CC on,,, and got an immediate sense of what was coming. In spite of the careful repetition of certain phrases about 'consciousness' being the base from which 'material' **emerges**, it seems evident (to me, anyway) that the basic philosophical approach is little different from the solipsism of David Hume and others.
   Starting with the phrase... almost a slogan... that "all knowledge begins with experience", they define their terms in such a way as to assume that (paraphrasing liberally) 'because none of the stuff we see has any meaning until our ~minds~ encounter it, if sort of follows that our minds are where it all exists.' From that, it is easy to make a sneaky jump, hidden in nomenclature, to 'minds are just part of some metaphysical uberMind. Couple THAT with the Creationist argument that 'because everything we know about has a chain of causes 'before it', it follows that minds and consciousness MUST be 'caused' by some *entity* beyond space & time... therefore...yep.. a Creator. Sometimes this chain of reasoning/(rationalization) is done, as in this video, with supposed scientific language.. and sometimes in simplistic terms to make it 'clear' to the hoi polloi.

   There are several bits of logical legerdemain operating here: one is that by giving a concept a name, it somehow confers reality. (After all, don't we KNOW what ghosts are, whether we really believe in them or not?)
The other is my favorite logical fallacy.. the Principle of Explosion... which doesn't try to tell you what is true, but only cautions that IF two or more conclusions are incompatible, at least one MUST be false, and that therefore at least one...usually more... premises must also be false. Humans seem to have the interesting ability to 'believe' several contradictory things at once. This makes it easier for 'certain types' to use our fallible logic to influence us to the advantage OF those certain types. (yeah... priests & politicians & insurance salesmen) they use this, often without really understanding exactly what they are doing.

My personal opinion is that the basic concept these folks are pushing is only a rhetorical device to put nomenclature around something that cannot in principle BE proven/decided. It is a belief...or set of beliefs. Some of us NEED to have answers, and it is obviously easier in many ways to just pick one that feels good than to be like the "dyslexic,agnostic, insomniac" and lie in bed all night wondering if there IS a Dog.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 May 19 - 11:50 AM

Ah, I have some new vocabulary to explore. I can see how political spin uses some of the nomenclature devices as well. The trick of being given two choices is an old game of manipulation.
On the consciousness issue there are some equally dubious claims made by quantum mechanics. Its almost too bad that it still works as an approximation of reality.
But by taking the two mysterious forces of gravity and spacetime out of our immediate group of fundamental forces and looking at them as emergent forces (perhaps) a real model of the universe may become more unified. That gravity is so weak, still raises my eyebrows.

The 'truthiness' that the visible matter in our universe has a filiment structure that resembles our neurons and axions in our brain, is a delicious fractal point of view that has been vivid in my minds eye for decades.

Yes these are questions that can wake the dad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bill D. do you have inroads with this?
From: Bill D
Date: 09 May 19 - 01:13 PM

well.. at least quantum mechanics manages to predict discoveries in the LHC. They have math that seems to work.

Gravity is weak? Depends on your perspective, I guess.... it does keep Pluto going at that distance... and I can't jump nearly as high as I'd like... ;>)


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