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BS: 2016 eu referndum

The Sandman 21 Mar 19 - 05:33 AM
The Sandman 21 Mar 19 - 05:37 AM
The Sandman 21 Mar 19 - 05:50 AM
Iains 21 Mar 19 - 06:19 AM
The Sandman 21 Mar 19 - 06:38 AM
The Sandman 21 Mar 19 - 06:40 AM
Iains 21 Mar 19 - 07:07 AM
G-Force 21 Mar 19 - 09:36 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Mar 19 - 09:43 AM
Mo the caller 21 Mar 19 - 10:01 AM
Jos 21 Mar 19 - 10:58 AM
Iains 21 Mar 19 - 11:48 AM
The Sandman 21 Mar 19 - 01:58 PM
Iains 21 Mar 19 - 03:11 PM
punkfolkrocker 21 Mar 19 - 03:47 PM
The Sandman 21 Mar 19 - 04:05 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Mar 19 - 04:20 PM
Iains 21 Mar 19 - 04:50 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Mar 19 - 04:53 PM
Big Al Whittle 21 Mar 19 - 05:18 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Mar 19 - 05:28 PM
Backwoodsman 21 Mar 19 - 05:40 PM
Big Al Whittle 21 Mar 19 - 06:00 PM
The Sandman 22 Mar 19 - 02:34 AM
punkfolkrocker 22 Mar 19 - 02:42 AM
punkfolkrocker 22 Mar 19 - 03:06 AM
Dave the Gnome 22 Mar 19 - 12:11 PM
The Sandman 22 Mar 19 - 02:07 PM
The Sandman 22 Mar 19 - 03:42 PM
Iains 23 Mar 19 - 04:00 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Mar 19 - 04:47 AM
Iains 23 Mar 19 - 05:44 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Mar 19 - 05:51 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Mar 19 - 05:56 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Mar 19 - 05:57 AM
Jos 23 Mar 19 - 09:48 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Mar 19 - 11:01 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 23 Mar 19 - 11:39 AM
bobad 23 Mar 19 - 11:53 AM
Iains 23 Mar 19 - 12:02 PM
punkfolkrocker 23 Mar 19 - 12:12 PM
Backwoodsman 23 Mar 19 - 12:50 PM
Backwoodsman 23 Mar 19 - 01:32 PM
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Subject: BS: 2016 eu referendum
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 05:33 AM

The European Union Referendum Act 2015 – the law that allowed the referendum to take place – didn't specify what would happen in the event of a vote to leave. ... It said “because of the sovereignty of Parliament, referendums cannot be legally binding in the UK, and are therefore advisory”


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 05:37 AM

So i suggest another referendum that is legally binding, thatr way democratic procedure will be correctly adminstered.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 05:50 AM

Alternatively parliament [not May] ADVISES, otherwise parliament should be dissolved
,You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately. ....


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Iains
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 06:19 AM

The vote was given to the people because it was considered of such importance that only the people's vote was considered the most suitable method of resolving the issue of stay or leave.
Proceeding on that basis it was implicit that in order to bow to the democratic process Parliament must follow the will of the people.
To adopt any other course of action would betray both the people and democracy.

No matter how cute the wriggly arguments are to allow sidestepping the outcome of the referendum, to pursue any action other than implementation is a betrayal. No Ifs Buts or Maybe's.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 06:38 AM

no legally you are wrong the referendum is not legally binding, if you wish to leave the EUyou either need a referendum that is not advisory or parliaments decision to leave ,that is THE LAW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp8aTvVqE7I


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 06:40 AM

tHE ONLY PEOPLE WHO BETRAYED THE PEOPLE WERE CAMERON andFarage IN NOT EXPLAINING TO THE PEOPLE THAT IT WAS ADVISORY, THe ELECTORATE WAS CONNED IN TO BELIEVING SOMETHING THAT WAS ONLY ADVISORY NOT legally bindinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp8aTvVqE7I


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Iains
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 07:07 AM

In a democracy if you hand the vote to the people it is expected Parliament would follow through. To state it was merely advisory rather misses the obvious.
It is a very simple concept: Give the vote to the people then democracy dictates Parliament adheres to the will of the people. To do otherwise destroys democracy. It is not a difficult argument to follow.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: G-Force
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 09:36 AM

The government explicitly stated that the referendum result would be honoured. The 2017 Conservative manifesto also said that leaving without a deal would be better than leaving with a bad deal. It didn't say how bad it would have to be to be considered bad.

If we don't leave, or if we leave with May's catastrophically bad deal, then we will have been well and truly betrayed.

Where's Guy Fawkes when you need him?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 09:43 AM

The vote was advisory. End of. That's the law. 17 million out of 66 million is the will of roughly a quarter of the people. Hope this helps.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Mo the caller
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 10:01 AM

May has spent 2 years pretending that if she changes the wording people wanting 2 contradictory things will think they've got what they wanted. Impossible to have no border IN Ireland and no border between N.Ireland and the rest of UK at the same time.

Now she's blaming MPs for not saying what they are in favour of when all they've been able to vote on was her deal.

It never could have been a binary choice, but people weren't offered the chance to say what kind of Brexit they were voting for.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Jos
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 10:58 AM

I heard a recording of a bit of May's speech last night.
How dare she tell me what I think.
How dare she tell me what I want.
How dare she tell me how I feel.

Who does she think she is?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Iains
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 11:48 AM

Hope this helps.

I do not need help.It is blindingly obvious that you do!

Democracy - control of an organization or group by the majority of its members.

Just keep repeating it, then even you will eventually understand.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 01:58 PM

ian look up lregaly binding and advisory even if there was a majority of those that voted that does not alter the law or the phrase legally binding.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Iains
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 03:11 PM

The issue at stake is whether or not democracy will be overturned,
Dancing on a pin head arguing definitions may enable you to overlook the obvious, but not me.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 03:47 PM

Considering how miniscule the deciding majority vote was...

If it had only been one vote winning it,
would that be the will of the person,
and would he or she have final say....


Daft.. but no less bollocks than the currrent eff up....


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 04:05 PM

democracy overturned? ha ha.. well its nothing new, the usa assasainated allende,that was overturning of democracy, the lisbon treaty was given a second referendum in ireland.to name just a couple
ians you seem scared of asecomnd referndum.. why?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 04:20 PM

Correct, Dick.

The members of the "group" known as the UK number around 66 million. Seventeen million of that group are steering us out of the EU on the back of a referendum campaign that was just about the most lie-ridden and deceitful phenomenon ever witnessed in the political life of this country. Anyone who thinks that that had anything to do with democracy is either a liar or wants their head examining. So about a quarter of the country are dragging us away from peace, prosperity and security, and the people who will be hurt most by this shambles are the ones who were too young to vote, and the people who will suffer the least will be those old racists who voted overwhelmingly to leave and who will be well dead before the worst ill-effects of brexit come about. If that's anyone's idea of democracy who posts here, well go and find yourself a priest to confess to and then go and find a shrink.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Iains
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 04:50 PM

Keep dancing on a pin boys if it keeps you happy.Meanwhile the rest of the world knows what a majority is and also what democracy is.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 04:53 PM

You don't. That much is shudderingly obvious. And I'm not talking to you any more. Even this is too much.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 05:18 PM

What is glaringly obvious is that most of the people we have voted to represent us in parliament are remainers.

So why don't they just say we don't believe in Brexit, we're in charge, suck on that assholes! Your views were misguided.

Instead of all this nonsense.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 05:28 PM

One can only wish...


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 05:40 PM

Fingers crossed. When the public, or a number of them, do something patently and demonstrably stupid, it's the responsibility of our elected representatives to do what's necessary to save them from the disastrous consequences of their stupidity. It's called 'Representative Democracy'.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Mar 19 - 06:00 PM

No thread on Brexit is really complete without mention of George Formby


https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&p=I%27m+a+froggie#id=1&vid=08ee3554a66df16184cac2d5f7d35f6f&action=view


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 02:34 AM

or alf garnetthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sygNs3QzSPA


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 02:42 AM

or violent fukwits eager for brexit incited civil war...

eg...

"System32
1 week ago
I'm supporting a civil war if it happens i been warning about it for years, I hate the position we are in i don't care if it will be brutal i'm ready to fight?


Andrew Riches
Andrew Riches
1 week ago
System32 same!?

thomas Prior
thomas Prior
1 week ago
its coming sooner than people think   no Brexit on the 29th 11pm 1 min after then storming the gates wont be nice gloves are off had enough?
"


so.. here's hoping this and all the rest, even more extreme, is just jokey ironic banter...?????????


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 03:06 AM

analysis/opinion...

Paul Mason is a New Statesman contributing writer, author and film-maker.

30 NOVEMBER 2018

"It’s obvious Ukip and its new alt-right cadres will try to lead a street-level mobilisation against the “betrayal of Brexit”.
The issue is whether Boris Johnson, Zac Goldsmith and Jacob Rees-Mogg
will give this movement the cover of respectability, or shun it like the plague.
If the Tory hard right go all in alongside the neofascists, we will have our very own Trump movement to deal with
".


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 12:11 PM

What should have happened is that Pigsticker Cameron should not have been so shit scared of lying toad Farage and faced him down rather than gambling the future of the country on a very flawed referendum

But it didn't. He caved in.

So what should have happened next is Cameron should have gone to the EU and told them he has serious backing to leave the EU if certain points were not addressed quickly, That would have been a real bargaining chip.

But he didn't. He wimped out and took his ball home with him.

So what should have happened next is May should have gone to the EU. Said we are leaving. We will still trade with you on the same terms. We will keep an open border with Ireland. We will welcome current EU citizens in the UK and you should welcome UK citizens in the EU on the current conditions. If you want to change that it is up to you. Put the ball in their court.

But she didn't. So we now have the catestrohic event looming brought on by a total fuck up by a PM scared of bully boys and exacerbated by a PM who couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

You couldn't make this stuff up.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 02:07 PM

taking back control is a careful change ,not a sudden step we will negotiate t terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave april 2016 quote,
I have no objection to leaving the EU, BUT NOT IF THERE IS A NO DEAL. IF the UK leaves it should leave in an organised fashion having sorted out trade terms, sorted out the border problem, and got itself into a similiar position to either norway or canada, if this is not done, we should remain


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 03:42 PM

4. Another referendum

A further possibility is to hold another referendum.

It could have the same status as the 2016 referendum, which was legally non-binding and advisory. But some MPs want to hold a binding referendum where the result would automatically take effect - like with the 2011 referendum on changing the voting system for UK general elections.

Either way, a referendum can't just happen automatically. The rules for referendums are set out in a law called the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000.

There would have to be a new piece of legislation to make a referendum happen and to determine the rules, such as who would be allowed to vote.

It couldn't be rushed through, because there has to be time for the Electoral Commission to consider and advise on the referendum question.

The question is then defined in the legislation.

Once the legislation has been passed, the referendum couldn't happen immediately either. There would have to be a statutory "referendum period" before the vote takes place.

Experts at University College London's Constitution Unit suggest that the minimum time for all of the required steps above is about 22 weeks.
5. Call a general election

Theresa May could decide the best way out of the deadlock would be to hold an early general election.

She doesn't have the power just to call an election. But, as in 2017, she could ask MPs to vote for an early election under the terms of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act.

Two-thirds of all MPs would need to support the move. The earliest date for the election would be 25 working days later but it could be after that - the prime minister would choose the precise date.
6. Another no-confidence vote

The government survived a vote of no confidence on 16 January by 325 votes to 306. Labour could table another no confidence motion at any time.

Under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act 2011, UK general elections are only supposed to happen every five years. The next one is due in 2022.

But a vote of no confidence lets MPs vote on whether they want the government to continue. The motion must be worded: "That this House has no confidence in Her Majesty's Government."

If a majority of MPs vote for the motion then it starts a 14-day countdown.

If during that time the current government or any other alternative government cannot win a new vote of confidence, then an early general election would be called.

That election cannot happen for at least 25 working days.
7. No Brexit

The European Court of Justice has ruled that it would be legal for the UK to unilaterally revoke Article 50 to cancel Brexit (without the need for agreement from the other 27 EU countries).

With the government still committed to Brexit, it's very likely that a major event such as a further referendum or change of government would have to happen before such a move.

However, any delay to Brexit would certainly lead to questions about whether the ultimate destination was going to be a reversal of the 2016 referendum.

It's not totally clear what the process would be. But an act of Parliament calling for Article 50 to be revoked would probably be sufficient.
Other possibilities

After Theresa May survived a challenge to her leadership, the Conservative Party's rules mean she won't face another for 12 months.

But she could always decide to resign anyway, if she can't get her deal through and she's not prepared to change course.

That would trigger a Conservative leadership campaign which would result in the appointment of a new prime minister.

She might also come under pressure to resign if MPs pass a "censure motion" - that would be a bit like a no-confidence vote but without the same automatic consequences. Again this could lead to a change in prime minister or even a change in government.

Whoever ended up in charge would still face the same basic range of Brexit options though


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Iains
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 04:00 AM

The members of the "group" known as the UK number around 66 million. Seventeen million of that group are steering us out of the EU on the back of a referendum campaign that was just about the most lie-ridden and deceitful phenomenon ever witnessed in the political life of this country. Anyone who thinks that that had anything to do with democracy is either a liar or wants their head examining

The above is but an opinion, therefore meaningless and of no consequence. Shaw would be more usefully employed putting his toys back in the pram and learning how to construct links.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 04:47 AM

And The Resident Ultra-Right-Wing Extremist would be more usefully employed learning how to use HTML properly. My eight-year-old grandson has more idea about it than our arrogant, antiquarian Fascist contributor.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Iains
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 05:44 AM

Makes a change for the backward man to string a sentence together without profanity. A shame he is only here for a morning constitutional troll as he drops by.
A reasoned contribution to the discussion is obviously beyond his grasp.
No surprise there!


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 05:51 AM

Sigh. How many times will people keep falling for it? :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 05:56 AM

Hilarious, coming as it does from someone whose only purpose here at any time is to abuse, insult, and troll. There's plenty of evidence. It's all there for anyone who cares enough to check out the bile and vitriol you've posted, going right back to your first-ever post. Squaddie barrack-room stuff, the kind that O/R lowlifes always resort to when they can't get the better of their intellectual superiors. Old habits obviously die hard.

I've told you many times, and I'll tell you again - Know Thyself.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 05:57 AM

Yeah, your right Dave. Mea Culpa.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Jos
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 09:48 AM

Quotation from a caller who rang in to BBC 'Any Answers' this afternoon:

"I voted leave in the confident belief we would remain ..."

How many more like him?


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 11:01 AM

I've heard numerous Leave voters say that they voted Leave 'because they're sick and tired of this government and austerity' (I paraphrase here, but accurately represent the gist of what they said).

It tells me all I need to know about Leavers' intelligence.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 11:39 AM

Sick and tired of austerity, are they? Wait till a no-deal crashout bites them in the collective butt.

I keep listening for its proponents to tell us the advantages. Crickets.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: bobad
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 11:53 AM

Yeah, your right Dave.

What about his right? And his left too? We have a right to know and won't be left out.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Iains
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 12:02 PM

"I voted leave in the confident belief we would remain .

With a brain like that it is a wonder the polling station was located correctly, let alone where to tick the box. Not for nothing are they labelled remainiacs!


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 12:12 PM

How many who voted for Brexit as a misguided protest against 'the political elite'
ever expected they would really win...

Talk about serious buyers remorse...

Even Boris looked like he just filled his pants upon hearing the result and realising what he'd done...


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 12:50 PM

The Leavers are fond of abusing Remain-voters by calling them 'traitors'. The real traitors are The Blond Buffoon, The Lying Scottish Viper, and their leader, The Nicotine-Stained Frog who, by their bare-faced lies and non-stop parroting of meaningless slogans such as 'Take Back Control', persuaded a large number of intellectually-challenged and feeble-minded Union-Jack-Underpants-Wearers and flag-wavers to vote Leave, but had absolutely no plan whatsoever for bringing our exit from the E.U. to a successful conclusion. You only had to see the "Oh Fuck, now we're in the shit!" expressions on their faces on the morning after the referendum.


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Subject: RE: BS: 2016 eu referndum
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 01:32 PM

/cont'd....You only had to see the "Oh fuck, now we're in the shit!" expressions on their faces on the morning after the referendum, and the brown stains spreading across the seats of their pants as they ran headlong for the hills, quickly followed by our porcine-fellatio-loving PM, to know what a massive con-trick they'd pulled, and what a shit-pile Brexit was destined to become.

And that's precisely what it is.


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