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Selling song without your permission

Big Al Whittle 06 Mar 19 - 11:30 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Mar 19 - 11:46 AM
meself 06 Mar 19 - 12:47 PM
Big Al Whittle 06 Mar 19 - 02:14 PM
Nigel Parsons 06 Mar 19 - 02:23 PM
Big Al Whittle 06 Mar 19 - 06:07 PM
Bugsy 06 Mar 19 - 09:02 PM
Joe Offer 07 Mar 19 - 01:53 AM
BobL 07 Mar 19 - 03:05 AM
GUEST,Rossey 07 Mar 19 - 12:08 PM
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Subject: Selling song without your permission
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 11:30 AM

This has happened to me a few times. You sign up your song with one publisher, and they sell it to another company without asking your permission. So you don't really know who owns your song.

I think they should tell you if they sell the song.


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Subject: RE: Selling song without your permission
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 11:46 AM

I suppose it depends what you mean by 'sign up your song', Al. If you literally sell them the ownership rights to the song, I'm guessing they can do whatever they like with it. Although you should still get royalties as the composer - perhaps?


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Subject: RE: Selling song without your permission
From: meself
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 12:47 PM

Sounds like common courtesy - but this IS the music industry we're talking about. Wouldn't it be nice if, when they said they'd phone back shortly and let you know if you've got the big gig, they actually did?


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Subject: RE: Selling song without your permission
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 02:14 PM

well generally they agree to market the song, for a percentage of the ownership. I don't think they're actually allowed to take 100%. No doubt they would.


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Subject: RE: Selling song without your permission
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 02:23 PM

Depends exactly what you signed up to.
Your contract should make it explicit.
If you gave them full distribution rights, or assigned the full copyright, then they can assign that to whoever they want.


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Subject: RE: Selling song without your permission
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 06:07 PM

yes agreed. but i think they should tell you if someone else has the obligation to collect the revenues.


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Subject: RE: Selling song without your permission
From: Bugsy
Date: 06 Mar 19 - 09:02 PM

Unless you've signed away your "copyright", you should be getting your royalties through MCPS,in OK or AMCOS/APRA in Australia.

Cheers

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: Selling song without your permission
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Mar 19 - 01:53 AM

I'd like to know more about this, although I suppose there are differences in different nations. If we compare notes on this, we may come up with some good information.
Al, you're a good person to ask, because you consistently write good songs that are likely to have commercial value. What do you do with songs, to "list" them so that they can be recorded by others?
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Selling song without your permission
From: BobL
Date: 07 Mar 19 - 03:05 AM

Songs (and dances) are like kids - once they've left home, they live their own lives.


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Subject: RE: Selling song without your permission
From: GUEST,Rossey
Date: 07 Mar 19 - 12:08 PM

Old style contracts used to assign all rights to publishers..(though PRS usually shows 50% to each party) Some of my late father's songs have been transferred from company to company half a dozen times, some being part owned at one time by Michael Jackson's estate!

There is one company who have transferred the rights to another branch of their own selves Emerald Music originally (now calling themselves Andoc).. and have not paid up on past or present releases and this would seem to be just crooked behaviour.

These companies illegally use minimum payment thresholds which were never in the contracts. Some use £50 as being a minimum payment. They put that in themselves.. and it is in no way part of the agreed contract, but that is the power they hold. So with many companies you never know when it reaches the sales to trigger a payment - as only they get sent the usage. The reputable ones send 6 monthly statements the crooks don't. Modern song contracts can be fixed period reversionary rights (eg for a three year period), and also should include a clause that if the original company goes down the rights revert back to the writer. I feel sick when I see the terms of old contracts, there is no need to assign copyright in the way it used to be done. But hey ho.. I am stuck with unfair terms which give the rights for the publisher to transfer from party to party.


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