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Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message

GeoffLawes 24 Feb 19 - 05:16 PM
GeoffLawes 24 Feb 19 - 05:18 PM
DaveRo 24 Feb 19 - 06:17 PM
GUEST,Jon 24 Feb 19 - 06:33 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 24 Feb 19 - 07:08 PM
Howard Kaplan 24 Feb 19 - 10:10 PM
Jeri 24 Feb 19 - 11:28 PM
DaveRo 25 Feb 19 - 02:40 AM
Jack Campin 25 Feb 19 - 03:16 AM
Mr Red 25 Feb 19 - 04:32 AM
DaveRo 25 Feb 19 - 07:20 AM
Joe Offer 25 Feb 19 - 01:59 PM
GeoffLawes 26 Feb 19 - 07:48 PM
DaveRo 27 Feb 19 - 03:04 AM
GUEST,Grishka 27 Feb 19 - 03:31 AM
DaveRo 27 Feb 19 - 03:51 AM
GUEST,Grishka 27 Feb 19 - 04:54 AM
Monique 27 Feb 19 - 05:48 AM
Gallus Moll 27 Feb 19 - 05:57 AM
Jeri 27 Feb 19 - 08:32 AM
DaveRo 27 Feb 19 - 09:14 AM
Jeri 27 Feb 19 - 09:51 AM
DaveRo 27 Feb 19 - 10:27 AM
Monique 27 Feb 19 - 10:54 AM
DaveRo 27 Feb 19 - 11:05 AM
Monique 27 Feb 19 - 11:31 AM
GUEST,Grishka 27 Feb 19 - 11:39 AM
Jack Campin 27 Feb 19 - 03:59 PM
GUEST,Grishka 27 Feb 19 - 05:02 PM
DaveRo 28 Feb 19 - 01:57 AM
Joe Offer 28 Feb 19 - 02:08 AM
GUEST,Jon 28 Feb 19 - 07:11 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 28 Feb 19 - 06:10 PM
GUEST,Grishka 01 Mar 19 - 07:39 AM
GeoffLawes 01 Mar 19 - 10:57 AM
Monique 01 Mar 19 - 11:06 AM
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Subject: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag mess
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 05:16 PM

I have spent hours preparing a long post for a Mudcat Perma thread which I “manage” but when I pressed the post button it did not post to the thread but instead displayed the message . Your post contains a forbidden HTML tag I included many blue click links to non-Mudcat sites and added a lot of simple HTML coding which I had read about on Mudcat. I have since spent a long time looking through the text that I hoped to post but cannot pick out anything that has not been accepted in previous posts of mine. Does Mudcat have a simple device which will show you what the forbidden HTML tag must be? Could the forbidden tag be in one of the blue links that I made on the blickifier?
Here are some of the HTML tags that I have tried to use
•   
      line break
•    bold      bold text
•      italics      italic text
      

I don’t want to waste the work that I and others have put in. Help please!


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag mess
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 05:18 PM

The title should read forbidden HTML tag message


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag mess
From: DaveRo
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 06:17 PM

You could post and preview it in sections, to see which bit fails. Be careful to tick preview every time.

You could paste the text into a local file, called, say, test.html. Add <html> at the top, </html> at the bottom, then open it in a browser. That might show which of your tags don't work.

You could post the text somewhere where we can look at it. I suggest to http://pastebin.com - you can do it as a guest. You get a URL that you can post here.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag mess
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 06:33 PM

I'm not sure that the middle paragraph of DaveRo's post will be of much help. Mudcat does block some valid html tags with good reason. I think script, form and img are out for starters.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag mess
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 07:08 PM

Table related tags are also forbidden

Mick


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: Howard Kaplan
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 10:10 PM

One way to find a single bug causing a mysterious error message is know as "Wolf trap debugging". The Wikipedia article about Debugging describes it as follows:
Edward Gauss described this simple but very useful and now famous algorithm in a 1982 article for communications of the ACM as follows: "There's one wolf in Alaska; how do you find it? First build a fence down the middle of the state, wait for the wolf to howl, determine which side of the fence it is on. Repeat process on that side only, until you get to the point where you can see the wolf."
So, in the case of a Mudcat post, you'd start by making a safe copy of the proposed post somewhere else, such as a plain text editor. You'd then eliminate about half the code, being careful not to lose the enclosing HTML tags. If the error message recurs, the offending code is in that half; otherwise, it's in the half you removed. If you're careful enough in removing and replacing halves, you can find the offending code fairly quickly. You can then fix the code in the safe copy, copy it to the composition area, and try previewing it again.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Feb 19 - 11:28 PM

It's not the line breaks, bold, or italics. Mudcat doesn't let people post the HTML to create tables.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 02:40 AM

GUEST,Jon wrote: I'm not sure that the middle paragraph of DaveRo's post will be of much help.
Probably not, but easy to do. And if he's mangled a link, or it's just a typo in the tag - for example <il> instead of <li> - he might spot it. (Though the lines breaks might be missing, so it wouldn't look right.) I know that some tags are forbidden, but he said he's using tags that have been accepted before.

Using my Mudcat Browser Tools addon he wouldn't need to type tags for bold, italic, etc - and links are just one click.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 03:16 AM

One common reason for that is if you include a "<" character mixed into normal text - Mudcat will interpret that as an attempt to do something weird.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 04:32 AM

First build a fence down the middle of the state, wait for the wolf to howl, Known as binary chop

And DaveRo's <HTML> wheeze does at least show the formatted HTML. Which surprised me without a head or a body. But it would not format the Mudcat line breaks without adding <BR>'s.

The most likely problem is non-permissable Mudcat TAGs

What I have found is the some TAGs will carry on formatting - even into text at the bottom of the Mudcat page if they are not closed properly with eg </eg>. Particularly <A HREF=etc> when everything you click on goes to the link and you can't correct it without the browser back button and re-doing. SO - use a text editor as a safe datum when playing.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 07:20 AM

Mr Red wrote: What I have found is the some TAGs will carry on formatting - even into text at the bottom of the Mudcat page if they are not closed properly...
...which is perhaps why tables are forbidden, the whole layout being done with tables.

Jack's suggestion - a rogue < - is quite likely.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Feb 19 - 01:59 PM

The primary block is against HTML tags that begin with "t" - which blocks most tags that deal with tables. I believe there are more extensive blocks against HTML from guests - to prevent auto-Spam.
Joe


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 26 Feb 19 - 07:48 PM

Thank you all for helping me to overcome my HTML problem. I followed Howard Kaplan's procedure which allowed me to find the single line where the problem lay amongst my many pages . The code in this rogue line looked like code which the preview function was accepting elsewhere - perhaps there was an odd extra space in some place . I experimented by switching bits of code about and trying the resulting lines in the preview function and eventually found something that was accepted. I then inserted that and posted all the pages successfully Thank you all so much XX


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: DaveRo
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 03:04 AM

The Ballad of Johnny Longstaff


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 03:31 AM

Thanks, Dave, for pointing us to the posting in question.

Geoff, would you please tell us which tag seemed to be the offender, so that we can learn for the future?

Mudcat is 20th century technology, like most of us ;-) , scarcely immune against abusive postings. It is not difficult to disrupt the display of the whole page. In your entry, Geoff, you use non-breaking fences (#####) that extend the width beyond most monitors, resulting in a horizontal scrollbar (in my browser). A wall may be much cheaper; let's see whether Mexico's gonna pay for it:
This was meant to be a wall, as produced by <hr style="color:red">. Good luck!


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: DaveRo
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 03:51 AM

It's been edited a bit since I first saw it yesterday. Those lines of hashes weren't there initially.

The unclosed bold tag on the title (and maybe others) causes the whole thing to be bold (at the time if writing).

I think if I were posting such a long piece I would view it in a file as I suggested. I'd include my own line breaks - <br> - and suppress the ones mudcat generates automatically. Then I could be pretty sure what it would look like. (It wouldn't help with forbidden tags, of course.)


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 04:54 AM

Dave, if it has been edited after posting, this means that the elves are at work. May they take their time until satisfied.

Remains the original question about the offending tag.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: Monique
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 05:48 AM

Table related tags are forbidden but since you "manage" the thread, you must first post your post without the table tags but with the linebreak tag at the end of each line (uncheck "Automatic Linebreaks"), submit, then edit the post to add the table tags. That's how I did it on the "Notre Dame des Doms Provençal Carols" and the "Voice of the People" threads. I don't know about other forbidden tags.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 05:57 AM

WTF is this thread aboot?! Daen' ma box in.....aaaarrrgggghhhh!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 08:32 AM

Dave, lose the hashes. You can do the "HR" with a "size=3" or whatever to make fatter lines. The hashes make all the text be that long, if there's enough of it, and people have to scroll sideways. Not a good thing.

Grishka, in that thread, Dave IS the elf.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: DaveRo
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 09:14 AM

Dave? Not me!


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 09:51 AM

Not Dave dammit! Geoff! (I plead a lack of coffee.)


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: DaveRo
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 10:27 AM

Although table tags cannot be posted, you can achieve a similar effect using html5 'grid' layout. Here's a simple 2-column example:
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis .
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur.

There are examples on the web. The main complication is that you have to include the style within the tag rather than in a stylesheet, which is a forbidden tag.

Most browsers have supported grid layout since 2017, so there may be a users for whom it won't display. Anybody here?


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: Monique
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 10:54 AM

Table tags can be posted by using the "edit" facility and since Geoff manages the thread, he has it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: DaveRo
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 11:05 AM

Monique: yes, and I understood that you do that to make your 2-column format in the Notre-Dame des Doms Provencal carols thread. (Very nicely curated thread, BTW.)

I thought it might be of interest to those who don't have editing rights but want to post a table-like structure.

It might also be of interest to those who do manage a thread but don't want to faff about inserting tags afterwards.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: Monique
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 11:31 AM

You're right Dave, now I got it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 11:39 AM

Jeri and Monique, thanks for the information. Elf apprentice, I'd call it. "Tear down this fence!"


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 03:59 PM

Yes you can use tags beginning with"t". Try <tt> like I'm doing here.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 27 Feb 19 - 05:02 PM

Mudcat is full of mysteries, some of which nobody alive seems to remember, let alone to reveal to us mortals. Whoever grasps a hint is welcome to share it with the congregation.

By the way, even humble guests can produce simple tables in Monique's style without using HTML5 grids:

Nouvè Notre-Dame des Doms 2-8   
QUITEN AQUESTO PLASSO
(Provençal lyrics)

Quiten aquesto plasso
Intren dins l'establon
Los ousselons s'amasson
Per dire sey cansons

Notre-Dame des Doms Carol 2-8
LET'S LEAVE THIS PLACE
(English translation)

Let's leave this place,
Let's enter in the small stable,
The birdies gather
To sing their songs.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: DaveRo
Date: 28 Feb 19 - 01:57 AM

And for a two-column layout like that, it's probably easiest. You might need to specify the widths, though. It works in older browsers too.

I like grids though, as a (relatively) simple way of laying out pages - like people used to do with tables.

The evolution of page layout over 20 years - tables, floating DIVs, and GRIDS - all in one thread!


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Feb 19 - 02:08 AM

Kinda fun, isn't it?


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 28 Feb 19 - 07:11 AM

I’d not heard of this new html style…

---
I had 2 or 3 attempts at trying to allow just a limited subset of html through elsewhere. I think the version I eventually settled on ran.

1. Change angle brackets to my own markers (IIRC, needed as there could be existing &gt; and &lt; in the post).
2. Pattern match the post against an array of expressions for “allowed html” and change matches back to the brackets.
3. Change any remaining markers to &lt; and &gt;

In theory and if I've got that right, that would leave the allowed stuff as working html while making other use of the brackets (including in abc) “display only”.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 28 Feb 19 - 06:10 PM

Dear GRISHKA,

I have joy...
that you are still around.


Sincerely,
Gargoyle

. Interesting observations


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 01 Mar 19 - 07:39 AM

Thanks, Gargoyle; same vice versa. If the subject is not exactly "Kinda fun" (but neither the opposite), we can still have some fun.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 01 Mar 19 - 10:57 AM

Here is a link to the Mudcat HTML Guide PermaThread mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=21858
this will probably interest some of you


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP with Mudcat forbidden HTML tag message
From: Monique
Date: 01 Mar 19 - 11:06 AM

There's something wrong with your link Geoff. Here it is again Mudcat HTML Guide PermaThread.
    He was close, but he was wrong. I fixed Geoff's link, but Monique did it right.
    Joe


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