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BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?

Iains 17 Apr 19 - 02:06 PM
Iains 17 Apr 19 - 01:42 PM
punkfolkrocker 16 Apr 19 - 02:44 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Apr 19 - 02:26 PM
Big Al Whittle 16 Apr 19 - 02:23 PM
Backwoodsman 16 Apr 19 - 12:12 PM
Big Al Whittle 16 Apr 19 - 11:45 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Apr 19 - 10:04 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Apr 19 - 09:58 AM
Nigel Parsons 16 Apr 19 - 09:35 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Apr 19 - 06:53 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Apr 19 - 06:50 AM
Nigel Parsons 16 Apr 19 - 06:01 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Apr 19 - 03:50 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Apr 19 - 02:13 AM
Mossback 15 Apr 19 - 09:51 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Apr 19 - 08:42 PM
bobad 15 Apr 19 - 07:22 PM
Backwoodsman 15 Apr 19 - 04:50 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Apr 19 - 04:44 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Apr 19 - 03:04 PM
Mossback 15 Apr 19 - 12:48 PM
bobad 15 Apr 19 - 12:23 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Apr 19 - 12:22 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Apr 19 - 11:42 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Apr 19 - 11:41 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Apr 19 - 11:38 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Apr 19 - 11:37 AM
Mrrzy 15 Apr 19 - 11:35 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Apr 19 - 11:21 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Apr 19 - 11:17 AM
Big Al Whittle 15 Apr 19 - 09:57 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Apr 19 - 05:36 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Apr 19 - 05:27 AM
Big Al Whittle 15 Apr 19 - 05:15 AM
Nigel Parsons 15 Apr 19 - 05:11 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Apr 19 - 04:57 AM
Nigel Parsons 15 Apr 19 - 04:51 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Apr 19 - 04:36 AM
Nigel Parsons 15 Apr 19 - 04:25 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Apr 19 - 03:10 AM
punkfolkrocker 14 Apr 19 - 05:34 PM
Jim Carroll 14 Apr 19 - 05:20 PM
Big Al Whittle 14 Apr 19 - 03:57 PM
punkfolkrocker 14 Apr 19 - 03:48 PM
Jim Carroll 14 Apr 19 - 02:50 PM
punkfolkrocker 14 Apr 19 - 02:47 PM
Jim Carroll 14 Apr 19 - 02:36 PM
Jim Carroll 14 Apr 19 - 02:36 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Apr 19 - 02:23 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 02:06 PM

I will try this a second time. For some peculiar reason the original did not post correctly.
It is not just the UK discussing the revocation of citizenship of those who have joined Isis. In fact it appears a popular procedure.

Australia has revoked the citizenship of five people who traveled to Iraq and Syria to join Islamic State, bringing the total number of people stripped of their citizenship to six.
Changes to the Australian Citizenship Act passed that year(216) automatically revoke a person’s citizenship if they engage in terrorism-related conduct, including those who are in the service of a declared terrorist organization overseas.

Danish government reaches agreement to revoke passports of Isis fighters
The new rules will provide for an administrative process that will enable passports to be revoked without going through the courts, the Ministry of Immigration and Integration announced.

Switzerland wants to strip ISIS fighter of passport.The Swiss justice minister on Monday confirmed that the country was looking at revoking the passport of a Swiss citizen who fought for the so-called Islamic State (ISIS).

       Germany already strips anyone of citizenship who joins a foreign army. Since 1999, a German who joins the armed forces “or similar armed organisation” of another state without the permission of the German defence ministry forfeits their German passport.

       France has been embroiled in a similar debate. Three years ago, François Hollande, the previous president, abandoned a constitutional bill that would have allowed dual nationals convicted of terrorist acts to be stripped of French citizenship after he failed to win sufficient support in parliament. But rightwing politicians have continued to demand such a step.

And to add some balance it must be quoted:
A day after Corbyn said ISIS bride should be let back into UK...Labour's John McDonnell once called for anyone who fought for Israel to be stripped of their British citizenship

    John McDonnell wrote to Theresa May in 2014 about Britons fighting for Israel
    He said: 'Will you be warning any British citizens considering engagement with the IDF that such engagement may put their British citizenship in jeopardy?'
    Yet Labour leader says ISIS bride Shamima Begum has 'right to return' to Britain   !!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 01:42 PM

Australia has revoked the citizenship of five people who traveled to Iraq and Syria to join Islamic State, bringing the total number of people stripped of their citizenship to six.
Changes to the Australian Citizenship Act passed that year(216) automatically revoke a person’s citizenship if they engage in terrorism-related conduct, including those who are in the service of a declared terrorist organization overseas.

Danish government reaches agreement to revoke passports of Isis fighters

Danish government reaches agreement to revoke passports of Isis fighters

The government and Danish People’s Party (DF) have agreed new rules that will enable authorities to withdraw passports from individuals found to have fought for militant groups abroad.

The new rules will provide for an administrative process that will enable passports to be revoked without going through the courts, the Ministry of Immigration and Integration announced.

Immigration minister Inger Støjberg said in a statement that she was “very


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 02:44 PM

Right, let's remember it is still possible for lefty liberals to objectively criticise aspects of the muslim religion
without being branded islamophobic...


.. or.. well it should be...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9rTbh4a57o&list=PLbttUTp0Qg337v9gbEoGbFcK832bJGZD6&index=2&t=0s


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 02:26 PM

Nice to see your heart's in the right place Al
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 02:23 PM

Everybody must get stoned (but only in a nurturing way)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 12:12 PM

Errrrmmm, that was the band, Al. The song was ‘It’s Good News Week’! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 11:45 AM

Perhaps you could get Jonathan King to write you a protest song.....

Headchoppers Anonymous


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 10:04 AM

This should have gone up
AS YOU WELL KNOW
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 09:58 AM

" If she were able to travel to the UK, and present herself at customs it is possible that she would be taken into custody, "
Ther is no indication of that a href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/19/isis-briton-shamima-begum-to-have-uk-citizenship-revoked">AS YOU WELL KNOW
Your support for this is despicable
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 09:35 AM

She did not ask or expect "consular support" - she is now demanding her right as a British citizen to return

You obviously didn't read my response: If she were able to travel to the UK, and present herself at customs it is possible that she would be taken into custody, and then dealt with under UK law processes.

Your lack of humanity and a sense of justice disgraces you as it has Britain
My 'sense of justice' is somewhat old-fashioned. She has made her bed, let her lie in it.
And before you go on about her being only a child (15) when she went out, she has grown several years since then, and could have tried to return at any time. She has chosen to try only once it appears certain that she joined a losing cause.
There are many causes more worthy of my sympathy than this self-publicist who is suffering the results of the choices she freely made. If she travelled out under her sister's passport, surely this makes it clear that she should have known that what she was doing would be considered as wrong by many people, and by the law of the land.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 06:53 AM

She did not ask or expect "consular support" - she is now demanding her right as a British citizen to return
I ahve little doubt that members of her community would raise the necessary cash for her return if they were forced to
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 06:50 AM

"She took herself into exile."
She mot certainly did not - refusing to allow her to return from a war she volunteered to fight (a war that the West should have taken part in) is driving her into exile
If she returned tomorrow she would be refused entry - a British citizen exiled without even the decency of a trial
Bloody outrageous
Your lack of humanity and a sense of justice disgraces you as it has Britain
It makes me wonder what my position would be if ever I decided to return to Britain
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 06:01 AM

Whatever the 'crimes' of this young woman, she is entitled to return home to face trial
I doubt if any justice system would, or could arrive at a decision to exile this or any British-born woman, even if she were found guilty - this is a sentence imposed on her by politicians - surely that is an abuse of her rights of as a citizen ?

This country has not exiled Shamima Begum. She took herself into exile. She chose to travel to a country in which the Foreign Office was already making clear there would be no consular support available.
If she were able to travel to the UK, and present herself at customs it is possible that she would be taken into custody, and then dealt with under UK law processes. But having placed herself beyond consular help I see no reason that the UK should be responsible for going out to get her.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 03:50 AM

Whatever the 'crimes' of this young woman, she is entitled to return home to face trial
I doubt if any justice system would, or could arrive at a decision to exile this or any British-born woman, even if she were found guilty - this is a sentence imposed on her by politicians - surely that is an abuse of her rights of as a citizen ?
It does not auger well for the future of British justice when politicians who have naused up the future of Britain with their incompetence ans indecision can take the law into their own hands in this way - maybe they'll start exiling those who want to stay in the E.U., or anybody who votes for Corbyn !!!
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 02:13 AM

God forbid!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Mossback
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 09:51 PM

Almost makes ya nostalgic for Bruce's diatribes, dunnit?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 08:42 PM

Anyway... :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: bobad
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 07:22 PM

And bobad denies that Palestinians actually exist.

If by "Palestinians" you mean those peoples who lived in the former kingdom of Judah which was conquered and renamed "Palestina" by the Romans in the second century CE I don't deny that at all. As a matter of fact my wife's family were "Palestinians" as attested to by their passports, as were all the citizens who inhabited the area, be they Christians, Muslims, Druze or Jews. That geographic area is now known as Israel and Jordan.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 04:50 PM

Another one best avoided completely.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 04:44 PM

And bobad denies that Palestinians actually exist. So much for balance...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 03:04 PM

"Aghiad AL Kheder"
A long-term Islamophobic blogger - his sources are "unnamed Syrians"
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Mossback
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 12:48 PM

And Aghiad AL Kheder's sources are........?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: bobad
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 12:23 PM

?Shamima Begum, the east London schoolgirl who fled to Syria, served in the Islamic State's "morality police" and also tried to recruit other young women to join the jihadist group, well-placed sources have told The Sunday Telegraph.

She was allowed to carry a Kalashnikov rifle and earned a reputation as a strict "enforcer" of Isis's laws, such as women's dress codes, sources claimed.

The claims are at odds with Begum's own account of her years with the group, which she joined at age 15.

Begum, now aged 19, has insisted she was never involved in Isis's brutality but spent her time in Syria as a devoted housewife to a jihadist.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/112024668/uk-teen-shamima-begum-was-in-isiss-allfemale-police-squad


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 12:22 PM

Jim - for a moment there I thought they were Liverpool footballers, until I googled...

I don't do football, or non British stiff upper lip emotions...
must be the grammar school conditioning in me..

Actually I have qualities and character that would make me a pretty good working class far right winger
[no.. not football..]...

.. just shows the diffence good parenting, edcation, and social factors make to a persons adult outcome..
[nature v nurture and all that...]

Oh well.. ukips loss is your gain...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 11:42 AM

Bulger's killers were detained and received treatment, as was only proper for children of that age - no civilized society executes children - or anybody
If you don't accept this, go make a list of innocent people who would have been executed - you can put The Birmingham Six at the top
The Bulger murder took place in my home town of Kirkby and I know damn well that some people would have string those kids up from the nearest lamp-post had they laid hands on them

Beside my point anyway - this young woman has committed no crime and even if she had, she would be entitled to a trial
THis is a political decision made by a State that, by acting as armourer for the world's most despotic regimes, is implicated in more killing of innocents - by proxy - than Isis ever was

"but I am maybe more like Spock to your Captain Kirk...?????"
Don'cha mean Lister and Kryren, whack ??
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 11:41 AM

Emigration doesn’t change a person’s Nationality, Mrrzy. My BiL and SiL emigrated to Canada and took Canadian citizenship. Their home is in Ontario. They are still British, however, and are entitled to the protections and benefits that their British Nationality confers on them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 11:38 AM

Thanks, PFR. There is also the "if you are not for us you are against us" mentality. If I say I have sympathy for the girl I get lambasted by some who suggest that I should let her live in my house and murder my children. They would far rather try to win points than show any compasdion. I suppose I should feel sorry for them too. But I'm afraid I don't!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 11:37 AM

”I have no empathy with her whatsoever. I cannot possibly understand or feel what she is going through. I do however have some sympathy for her plight and, unlike some on here, I do not think she brought it all on herself. I do not think she is entirely blameless either and I would not, as some have suggested, welcome her with open arms. I do however believe she deserves a fair hearing rather than trial by media and a lynch mob.”

My sentiments exactly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 11:35 AM

She emigrated. The UK is no longer her home. Home is where she is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 11:21 AM

DtG - "15 Apr 19 - 05:27 AM" - well said..

Right wingers hold to a stupid arrogant presumption that only they are level headed realists,
while the left are a bunch of bleeding heart snowflakes...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 11:17 AM

Jim - yes we are more often in agreement, and have nothing to gain by falling out over minor differences...

You and me probably have disimilar temperaments...
We can stand together side by side on issues,
but I am maybe more like Spock to your Captain Kirk...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 09:57 AM

I disagree with you.

Over the Bulger case, you are provably wrong.

The justice system seems to think it is morally better in its treatment of young pewople by not executing them And no further effort is required or deserved. if you knew the situation, you would know the meaning of shame.

However you are entitled to your opinions - no matter how mistaken.

Now leave me to mine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 05:36 AM

"Yes, that is why Shamima Begum's family are trying to get Legal Aid to fight for reinstatement of her citizenship"
They shouldn't have to Nigel - being exiled for a crime committed when the girl was a cild is abuse of human rights - an act of gross inhumanity
The Killers of Jamie Bulger were treated with more decency
This is a political act which has nothing to do with natural justice
You people are shaming Britain - as you have over Brexit
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 05:27 AM

I have no empathy with her whatsoever. I cannot possibly understand or feel what she is going through. I do however have some sympathy for her plight and, unlike some on here, I do not think she brought it all on herself. I do not think she is entirely blameless either and I would not, as some have suggested, welcome her with open arms. I do however believe she deserves a fair hearing rather than trial by media and a lynch mob.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 05:15 AM

Well as several of you seem to feel some empathy for the lady - let's hope your judgement is proved sound.

I'm obviously outvoted. i accept the democratic majority.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 05:11 AM

Jim Carroll:
As we say when politicians like Heath got caught with their trousers down, the rule off law is very much a movable feast
What does this relate to? I know you dislike the Conservatives as a matter of principle, but this looks very much like a libellous comment about an ex Prime Minister.
It is very easy to "speak ill of the dead" when they cannot protect themselves.

Law tends to be for those who can afford it these days
Yes, that is why Shamima Begum's family are trying to get Legal Aid to fight for reinstatement of her citizenship. Legal Aid reduces the advantages of the rich over the poor in obtaining equal treatment under the law.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 04:57 AM

" Your comment was about having faith in the rule of law."
As we say when politicians like Heath got caught with their trousers down, the rule off law is very much a movable feast
How about the rule of humanity Nigel?
Law tends to be for those who can afford it these days
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 04:51 AM

It's not about having faith in politicians. Your comment was about having faith in the rule of law.
That must mean accepting actions taken by politicians acting within the rule of law. Or do you only have faith in the parts of the rule of law which happen to match your own prejudices?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 04:36 AM

Javid is a Tory clown who did that in a deliberately populist move. Even though he's a clown, you won't catch him saying that she's a criminal until she's been properly tried and convicted via due process. Were he to say that, and she is eventually brought home, he would have fatally prejudiced any chance of a fair trial. And I must say that you appear to put far more faith in the integrity of politicians than I do. Of course, as he's a Tory like you...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 04:25 AM

From: Steve Shaw
14 Apr 19 - 02:23 PM

There are no gap years at the age of 15. No-one here is singing the praises of Isis, Al, not even remotely. What we are saying is that we try to have some faith in our justice system and the rule of law. That means not calling our citizens criminals before they've been properly investigated, real evidence collected (not weaselly hearsay), trials held and convictions obtained.


"Having faith in the rule of law" must mean that, as Sajid Javid had the legal right to remove her British citizenship, based on the knowledge that he has of the whole situation, we must accept that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 03:10 AM

"Just I don't get over emotional about it..."
I think this is where we differ
She was little more than a child when she left home - she did so at the time when Assad had fully exposed himself for the monster he really was and Britain (and the rest of the Western World) had refused to do anything about it (Parliament took a vote washing Britain's hands of involvement)
Hundreds of Muslim youngsters began slipping out of Britain to oppose him - immediately they were labeled 'Jihadists', suggesting that they were doing so for religious rather than humanitarian reasons - there is no evidence that this was the case.
Now we have a young woman who has been refused the right to return home and are faced with the situation of many hundreds more British citizens in the same position - exiled for setting off to fight a dictator
I find that quite 'emotional' - every bit as emotional as how The Windrush immigrants were treated, or The Notting Hill Race Riots, or Powell's 'Rivers o Blood' hate speech, or all the other sordid race events that have created a situation where it is now estimated that around one third of the British people hold racist views and have stated them openly
Events lke these are debasing Britain and opening the door to scum like Robinson and Farage, who are now planning to shift us even further to the right - that's a pretty 'emotional' - extremely dangerous situation to be in.

I see spooky parallels with what happened to my family
When they learned from Jewish neighbours what was happening in Nazi Germany, they took to the streets, only to find that Mosley's Blackshirts were being protected by baton-wielding British Bobbys mounted on horses; I'm proud so say, my grandmother was arrested for hitting Mosley with a stone
My dad went to Spain to fight Nazism; wounded, he eventually returned home to find he had been given an MI5 record and had been blacklisted from work (at the time, the Government were still trying to appease Hitler and would be shortly plunged into war with the people my dad was punished for going to fight).
Just as Spain might have been a place where the world might have stood against Hitler, the massacres of Homs could have been a reason why Assad was stopped in his tracks
Neither happened - one gave us a World War, the other gave us Isis
Pretty emotional, as far as I'm concerned
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 05:34 PM

Jim - sorry, what..??? have you acidently posted before proof reading...

Me and you are more or less supporting a sensible humane evaluation of this girl's plight and future...

Just I don't get over emotional about it...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 05:20 PM

"I don't think my views on this issue are that uncommon...???"
Are you saying this girl did ?
Isis would have remained a bunch of fanatical cranks if the West and the UN had acted against Assad
She is a British citizen and deserves a trial, but lynch mobs don't think that way, do they
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 03:57 PM

well shame on me....I don't feel any shame.

are you saying ISIS didn't do murderous acts?. The vast majority of the people they killed were Muslims. they oppressed muslims bloody sight more than the law in our country would allow or even the worst racists in our society ever could imagine.

let's turn this round why are you so keen to re-admit her into the society she has sworn emnity to? Why do you want to spend public money on her?

Can you really not think of more deserving cases? When she arrives here (as seems almost certain to happen) she's going to be very rich , the book deals are probably lining up as we speak.

I really have a lot of difficulty understanding you Jim. You despise most pro musicians, saying they have have sold out. Even though most of them just scrape a living - you say they have no place in this country's folk culture.

And yet someone who has called us from a pig to a dog. Publiclly disavowed us....joined am organisation who hates our very existence.

Perhaps you are a better Christian than me.    Like the good shepherd in the parable rejoicing after bringing back the one lamb that strayed. Rejoicing at the return of the prodical daughter....who knows?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 03:48 PM

Jim - we can strive to be positive humanists without being all emotionally soppy about it...

..well at least that's my individual personality...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 02:50 PM

"I don't think my views on this issue are that uncommon...???"
II think you're right unfortunate PFR
Very few think in terms of people like her being what they actually are, young, inexperienced human beings
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 02:47 PM

I'll add..

If this girl had been killed in combat,
or an airstrike against isis strongholds - problem solved, no tears shed..

But she survives, she's an inconvenience for our tory government;
despite any intelligence value she may hold for security services,
or any potential future PR value if she could be turned against extemism
and become a more poitive role model for UK muslim youth...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 02:36 PM

"Well the International Brigade and the factions opposing Franco probably didn't have completely clean sheet."
So you wouldn't have let them back into Britain after the Civil War then ?
"to feel indulgent about murderous acts that don't happen on your doorstep."
Actually, nobody has suggested she killed anybody - she was barred brom Britain for her being a threat, but hey - what's a few facts between friends ?
Yiu have the rope over the branch despite te fact that there is no way of knowing what she did or why she went
Good ol' British justice
One of the main ourtcries by the authorities when these kids started to go wat that they had been or would be groomed - but you know better of course
Must have been born evil eh ?
Shame on you Al
I wonder how you would have reacted if it had been one of your relatives ?
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 02:36 PM

"Well the International Brigade and the factions opposing Franco probably didn't have completely clean sheet."
So you wouldn't have let them back into Britain after the Civil War then ?
"to feel indulgent about murderous acts that don't happen on your doorstep."
Actually, nobody has suggested she killed anybody - she was barred brom Britain for her being a threat, but hey - what's a few facts between friends ?
Yiu have the rope over the branch despite te fact that there is no way of knowing what she did or why she went
Good ol' British justice
One of the main ourtcries by the authorities when these kids started to go wat that they had been or would be groomed - but you know better of course
Must have been born evil eh ?
Shame on you Al
I wonder how you would have reacted if it had been one of your relatives ?
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 02:23 PM

There are no gap years at the age of 15. No-one here is singing the praises of Isis, Al, not even remotely. What we are saying is that we try to have some faith in our justice system and the rule of law. That means not calling our citizens criminals before they've been properly investigated, real evidence collected (not weaselly hearsay), trials held and convictions obtained. There's nothing softie-leftie about that. Just a desire to avoid lapsing into lynch-mob mentality, Al. By the way, though I wouldn't use it as a qualification, I cut my teeth as a teacher in two of the worst schools in the Black Country, then spent seven years teaching in Poplar and another six in a deprived part of Walthamstow. I'd also say that there are no excuses for people who radicalise young people, but we should seriously ask ourselves whether the inherent racism in our society, Islamophobia in particular, and our support for regimes that repress Muslims, doesn't provide fertile ground for the radicalisers.


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