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BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?

Jim Carroll 23 Feb 19 - 04:03 AM
Bonzo3legs 23 Feb 19 - 03:16 AM
Nigel Parsons 22 Feb 19 - 08:13 PM
Iains 22 Feb 19 - 06:10 PM
Dave the Gnome 22 Feb 19 - 05:34 PM
robomatic 22 Feb 19 - 03:35 PM
Raggytash 22 Feb 19 - 03:34 PM
Raggytash 22 Feb 19 - 03:29 PM
Iains 22 Feb 19 - 03:05 PM
robomatic 22 Feb 19 - 03:04 PM
Jim Carroll 22 Feb 19 - 02:57 PM
punkfolkrocker 22 Feb 19 - 02:26 PM
robomatic 22 Feb 19 - 02:22 PM
Senoufou 22 Feb 19 - 02:21 PM
Iains 22 Feb 19 - 02:11 PM
Jim Carroll 22 Feb 19 - 10:26 AM
Mossback 22 Feb 19 - 09:55 AM
punkfolkrocker 22 Feb 19 - 09:07 AM
bobad 22 Feb 19 - 08:28 AM
Iains 22 Feb 19 - 07:21 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Feb 19 - 06:28 AM
Iains 22 Feb 19 - 04:55 AM
Iains 22 Feb 19 - 04:52 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Feb 19 - 04:33 AM
Iains 22 Feb 19 - 04:12 AM
The Sandman 22 Feb 19 - 04:02 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Feb 19 - 03:41 AM
Iains 22 Feb 19 - 03:24 AM
Thompson 22 Feb 19 - 01:05 AM
bobad 21 Feb 19 - 09:56 PM
robomatic 21 Feb 19 - 08:37 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Feb 19 - 07:47 PM
Mossback 21 Feb 19 - 06:22 PM
bobad 21 Feb 19 - 04:53 PM
David Carter (UK) 21 Feb 19 - 03:44 PM
David Carter (UK) 21 Feb 19 - 03:39 PM
robomatic 21 Feb 19 - 03:38 PM
Iains 21 Feb 19 - 03:28 PM
David Carter (UK) 21 Feb 19 - 02:45 PM
Iains 21 Feb 19 - 02:33 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Feb 19 - 12:04 PM
punkfolkrocker 21 Feb 19 - 11:43 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Feb 19 - 06:02 AM
Iains 21 Feb 19 - 04:50 AM
Thompson 21 Feb 19 - 03:15 AM
Backwoodsman 21 Feb 19 - 01:58 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Feb 19 - 06:02 PM
Senoufou 20 Feb 19 - 05:40 PM
David Carter (UK) 20 Feb 19 - 05:30 PM
Iains 20 Feb 19 - 05:23 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Feb 19 - 04:03 AM

"Your ability to center your afflictions remains undiminished. Y"
And your tendency to use "whataboutism" to defend the actions of a terrorist state remains as appeasing as it has always been
As you say, the world is full of rogue administrations and always has been
There is litle that can be done about them as things stand
Now and again, a state oversteps the mark and is acted against
It should have happened in Germany, but it didn't until too late - with the unforgotten consequences
South Africa overstepped the mark and its own excesses coupled with a world wide boycott eventually led to its collapse
In my, and many others (including Jews) opinion, Israel has now overstepped that mark
It has recently slaughtered over twice the number of unarmed demonstrators as did the Apartheid regime in South Africa
A blockade aimed at starving the Palestinians into accepting continuing land seizures is now over a decade old
You only have to pull up the Amnesty figures to see how extensive those land seizures have become
Even the moderate Israeli press is talking about 'ethnic cleansing' and the BDS campaign is becoming as serious and issue as to lead Israel into attempting to interfere in the politics of other nations

As an early supporter of The State of Israel, I am appalled at the fact that the actions of the Israeli Government has now added greatly to the rise i antisemitism - serious enough to make it a major issue for me
Saying it's ok because others are doing it doesn't hack it - you act on what you care about and do what little you can
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Feb 19 - 03:16 AM

From a personal standpoint: responding on forums is now tedious and counterproductive due to the inability - whether it's deliberate or unintentional - of some who see every word that is written by anyone else as some personal affront. An answer to a question is an answer to a question, not a personal mainfesto with a hidden agenda of personal vilification.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 08:13 PM

From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 03:34 PM
"Some of those returning will undoubtedly try to kill again. We have no idea who they will be!"
If they are returning Jihadhi's I have sufficient faith in our security forces that each and very one them will be very well known.
Once again ......... you know the rest.


Yes, and I'm sure I've heard reports of atrocities committed by people who were later described as "known to the police/security forces"


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 06:10 PM

"Some of those returning will undoubtedly try to kill again. We have no idea who they will be!"

If they are returning Jihadhi's I have sufficient faith in our security forces that each and very one them will be very well known.


With 23000 Jihadis at home and others returning from foreign climes, yes I am sure they know all their names and what papers they read and what risk each one of them poses.
"As a recent study says:“National resources in most countries are insufficient to monitor more than a handful of returnees” (Barrett, 2014). And surveillance of such individuals may have to continue for months or years. Whether all returning fighters should be promptly arrested or dealt with more discriminately is a topic of debate in Europe."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/huge-scale-of-terror-threat-revealed-uk-home-to-23-000-jihadists-3zvn58mhq

I suspect something a tad more tangible than faith is required to sort the problem. But ignorance is bliss(so they say)


https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/perspectives/PE100/PE130-1/RAND_PE130-1.pdf


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 05:34 PM

I see Jihadi Jack now wants to return. Different kettle of fish and throws a spanner in the works of any other repatriations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 03:35 PM

But how will they vote in the next Brexit referendum? Some stuff is important....


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 03:34 PM

"Some of those returning will undoubtedly try to kill again. We have no idea who they will be!"

If they are returning Jihadhi's I have sufficient faith in our security forces that each and very one them will be very well known.

Once again ......... you know the rest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 03:29 PM

"All returning jihadis have to be considered a very real risk"

No-one, not one single poster has suggested otherwise.

once again ............ idiot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 03:05 PM

PFR the idea has some merit as statistics prove recidivism occurs. I would argue that the little buggars that have not been captured likely pose a much higher risk of continuing their nefarious pastimes and despite increasing legislation concerning chemical sales those to make explosives can still be sourced. Even the Anarchists cookbook is still on the internet.
Internment has been used before and would have the benefit of reducing public risk. Better safe than sorry. What we have now could well be the face of modern warfare, we have yet to develop the tools to combat it
http://www.claws.in/images/journals_doc/742067376_MBSushir.pdf

Some argue deradicalisation takes several generations

http://studies.aljazeera.net/en/reports/2018/05/100-percent-defeat-isis-ideology-180508042421376.html

There is an additional problem of quantifying the risk posed by "non belligerent" members. If steeped in the ideology and unrepentant they also can pass their toxic message to their offspring unless they are taken from them. Without witness or evidence how do you establish non belligerence? Why bother? fighting or non fighting they can still transmit their extremist ideology and that in itself is a risk.

As far as the UK is concerned it is an unholy mess. We can forgive terrorists their sins yet persecute our soldiers fighting them by allowing ambulance chasing legal vermin to pursue them in the courts decades after the alleged "crimes"


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 03:04 PM

Jim:
It has happened again for the people of Darfur, the Tutsis, the Yazidis, the Coptics, the Uyghurs, the Rohingyas, the Falashas, the Syrians, the Kurds, and quite a few others. Persecution knows no ethnicity.

Your ability to center your afflictions remains undiminished. Your calling the kettle black does not remove you from pot status.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 02:57 PM

"The Jewish people ARE linked to the formation of Israel, the Jewish State."
As are those of us whose families opposed antisemitism and supported the Jewish State
Ther is no connection with the ideals that gave rise to he Jewish State and the ethnic cleansing policies of the present leadership, in fact those policies are directly responsible for the sharp rise in antisemitism
By hiding by Jewish history to defend policies comparable to those that made the formation of the state necessary is to paint a target on every Jew on the planet - there can be no 'self interst' for the Jewish people in that
A holocaust survivor once summed it up personally for me - "never again - not for anybody"
It's happening again
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 02:26 PM

Iains - I'd not be entirely opposed to a humanely run Alcatraz style island quarantine, evaluation and re-education camp....
But how.. where...???

The Bristol Channel...?????

... Even if there can be cross party consensus, again it's all ultimately down to costings and practicalities...

at the most insecure and uncertain time in modern UK history...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 02:22 PM

The Jewish people ARE linked to the formation of Israel, the Jewish State. This does not mean that all actions of Israel are indissoluble with 'the Jewish people' but there is a common interest in survival and a common identification with the survival of both entities as linked.

The Jewish people as a whole in the United States are very pro-Israel, although this does not mean they would vote for the current Israeli PM. After all, not all Israelis did. Israel, as is any Democracy, is rife with political strife. Israel's government is more modelled after that of Britain than that of the United States.

Does agreement or disagreement with the BREXIT vote entail declaring that Britain is an oppressive state or the opposite?

Are there Mudcatters who believe that support of Israel and fighting for the IDF is on a moral equivalency to support of ISIS and fighting for ISIS? I agree that they both being with the letter 'I' but that's only in the English language and there the resemblance ends.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 02:21 PM

I've been wondering about what crimes Shamima has actually committed.

I understand her opinions and loyalties are abhorrent, and that she demonstrated support for a terrorist organisation by arriving in Syria to marry one of their adherents. But am I right in thinking that none of these things is actually a crime of itself?

She did travel using her sister's passport, which was illegal of course.

Is it against UK Law to be the wife of a jihadi and bear his child?

If she were to be repatriated to the UK, what exactly would the CPS find to accuse her of?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 02:11 PM

To get this interesting thread vaguely back on course it is necessary to point out that "deradicalisation" programs are not 100% successful.

The Parsons Green bomber told Home Office officials when he arrived in Britain that he had been trained as an Isis child soldier, a court has heard.Iraqi teenager Ahmed Hassan was taken into foster care and interviewed by authorities in 2016 and claimed he had not been sent by the terrorist group to launch an attack.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/parsons-green-attack-bombing-isis-london-underground-tube-iraqi-refugee-ahmed-hassan The home made bomb was faulty and did not fully detonate.
Even so 50 people had burn injuries of varying severity. Had the bomb detonated the included shrapnel would undoubtedly have caused many fatalities and horrendous injuries.
The perpetrator was a child of "18"

" According to the latest estimate by the Office of the Directorate of National Intelligence (ODNI), the rate of confirmed or suspected recidivism among former Guantanamo detainees is about 27 percent or 161 individuals out of the 600 released (HASC, 2012). The estimated recidivism rate, however, has been rising up from seven percent in July 2008 to 14 percent in April 2009, and 25 percent in October 2010 (HASC, 2012"
It would seem reasonable to suppose of the 800 returning jihadis 200 pose a severe risk and will attempt to maim and kill indiscriminately".

And for a stunning effort Bliar Blair not only pushed for a terrorist to be released from Guatanomo Bay but also paid him £1million pounds compensation. He then promptly went back to Iraq and got exterminated while on a terrorist mission. I hope the government reclaimed his proceeds of crime!

All returning jihadis have to be considered a very real risk. Some of those returning will undoubtedly try to kill again. We have no idea who they will be!


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 10:26 AM

"Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu"
Hopefully about to be replaced by the parties uniting to give him the Rotal Order of The Boot (if he isn't banged up for corruption)
Can't remember what happened to his missus for the same thing
Funny how the media managed to miss all this
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Mossback
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 09:55 AM

Every religion has its radical or extremist groups

For instance:

"Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu brokered a deal this week with the right-wing extremist party Jewish Power, which has roots in a violent, racist movement that Israel and the U.S. deemed a terrorist organization.

Jewish Power, or Otzma Yehudit, is led by followers of Brooklyn-born Meir Kahane, an openly racist and ultranationalist rabbi who led extremist organizations in the United States and Israel."

Huffington Post


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 09:07 AM

..after the loss of keith, I felt kind of bereft, and lost all interest in BS...

I'm gradually dipping my toes back in...


Encouraging to see Iains and bob are keeping up the low standards....


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: bobad
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 08:28 AM

Ian Austin
Friend of Israel


Jeremy Corbyn
Friend of anti-Semitic terrorist groups Hamas and Hezbollah and theocratic, murderous Islamic Republic of Iran.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 07:21 AM

"Labour really are getting their act together at last - more power to their elbows"

Yes it is now a double act with the Monster Raving Soubry Party!

Roll up, Roll up, otherwise you may miss the clowns.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 06:28 AM

Ian Austin
Friend of Israel
In May 2009, The Daily Telegraph reported that Austin had tried to split a claim for stamp duty on buying his second home in London into two payments and tried to claim the cost back over two financial years. This allowed him to claim the majority of the money (£21,559, just £75 short of the maximum) under his second-home allowance in the 2005/06 financial year. He then claimed for the remaining £1,344 stamp duty cost in 2006–2007, together with his legal fees. In all, he went on to claim £22,076 (£34 short of the maximum) in the next financial year.[21]
It also reported that Austin "flipped" his second-home designation weeks before buying a £270,000 London flat, and that he had claimed £467 for a stereo system for his constituency home, shortly before he changed his second-home designation to London. He then spent a further £2,800 furnishing the new London flat.[21]

Labour really are getting their act together at last - more power to their elbows
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 04:55 AM

The Dudley North MP Ian Austin has said he is quitting the Labour party, telling the Express and Star newspaper he has no plans to join the Independent Group.

He told the newspaper there was a “culture of extremism, anti-Semitism and intolerance” in the Labour party.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 04:52 AM

I would say that anyone that declares a person of dual UK/Israeli nationality fighting for Israel to be a terrorist and be deprived of UK nationality has a distinct problem with Jewry period.
(Israel is of course our staunchest ally in the Middle East)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 04:33 AM

"to be anti israeli government does not make one anti semitic"
Someone needs to tell Israel that, though I'm quite sure they are fully aware of it already - any rung will do to climb a ladder
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 04:12 AM

Isis rose from being an insignificant sect of cranks into a major International terrorist threat because the West didn't care enough to do something about a despot with a penchant for torturing and murdering anybody who spoke against him and his regime
Instead of opposing what he was doing, they sided with him against protesters demanding a better life and provided him with equipment which allowed him to imprison, torture and murder them
When all this is over, they will almost certainly seek to bury his crimes and BECOME HIS FRIEND AGAIN


I hate too tell you this but Saddam Hussein is dead. Keep up with the program!

The roots of ISIS trace back to 2004, when the organization known as “al Qaeda in Iraq” formed. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who was originally part of Osama bin Laden’s al Qaeda Network, founded this militant group.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 04:02 AM

to be anti israeli government does not make one anti semitic any more than being anti trump means you are racist against Americans


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 03:41 AM

"the west and the Jews."
The West certainly - only an Antisemite would link the Jewish people with the policies of Israel or suggest that 'The Jews' have any policy
They are as diverse as any other ethnic or religious group on the planet - please stop stereotyping them - history has shown how lathal that can be
Every religion has its radical or extremist groups - superstition based on supreme beings tends to do that
Isis rose from being an insignificant sect of cranks into a major International terrorist threat because the West didn't care enough to do something about a despot with a penchant for torturing and murdering anybody who spoke against him and his regime
Instead of opposing what he was doing, they sided with him against protesters demanding a better life and provided him with equipment which allowed him to imprison, torture and murder them
When all this is over, they will almost certainly seek to bury his crimes and BECOME HIS FRIEND AGAIN
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 03:24 AM

A Letter letter from John McDonnell(Labour) to then Home Secretary Theresa May in July 2014 challenging her to strip any British citizens who served in the Israeli Defence Force of their British citizenship. McDonnell writes:

   “Will you be warning any British citizens considering engagement with the IDF that, in line with established British Government practice (e.g. the deprivation of British citizenship from, to date, at least 40 UK passport holders who have been involved in the Syrian civil war), such engagement may put their British citizenship in jeopardy?”
McDonnell went much further, suggesting that Brits volunteering for the IDF should be classed as “terrorists” as well as being deprived of their citizenship.
Incredibly, the letter was still publicly posted on McDonnell’s website until at least June 2017, almost two years after he became Shadow Chancellor. McDonnell has since deleted the letter, but the internet never forgets…
McDonnell’s position appears to be that Britons with dual Israeli nationality fighting to defend the Israeli state should be stripped of their nationality yet their Islamic State terrorist enemies in the same position should not…


And yet some still argue that antisemitism is not rife within the Labout party .


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Thompson
Date: 22 Feb 19 - 01:05 AM

If this young girl is not saved, no doubt England’s tabloid readers will be gloating in a couple of months when her new baby dies of dysentery and she herself of a post-partum infection. (And she is a young girl - at least if she’s anything like I was at 19, young and inexpressibly dopey and know-it-all.)

She may in fact get shelter in the Netherlands, where her husband is from - certainly the best solution. The calm, sensible Dutch generally have little time for drama queening and nonsense, and they have excellent mother and baby support.

People are wondering how you deradicalise someone: mostly by the moderating effect of the people around them. And some treatment for PTSD.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: bobad
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 09:56 PM

Yep, the movement to create an Islamic Caliphate is the fault of the policies of the west and the Jews. I wonder who was to blame for the establishment of the Rashidun Caliphate, the Umayyad Caliphate, the Abbasid Caliphate, the Ottoman Caliphate and all the other parallel Caliphates established in the name of Islam......hmm.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 08:37 PM

Actually, maybe she should be sent to Israel to deradicalize. Seeing different religions and ethnicities functioning in a liberal society should convince her one way or the other.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 07:47 PM

All this talk about "deradicalisation". The fact is that she was radicalised in this country, nowhere else. Go on, blame anyone you like. Blame her parents. Blame her school. Blame Islam. But I'll tell you what. Had it not been for the Iraq invasion and the the occupation of Afghanistan, and all the other outrages with regard to US and UK foreign policy, including the egregious and pusillanimous support for the perennial and disgusting depredations of successive Israeli regimes, we wouldn't have this issue. So she's our responsibility, and Javid can go to hell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Mossback
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 06:22 PM

As do the NSA & CIA.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: bobad
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 04:53 PM

How do you deradicalise someone?

The Russians and Iranians do it effectively.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 03:44 PM

In the UK we have any number of options, such as Masterchef, or the Great British Sewing Bee.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 03:39 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucalyptus_marginata


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 03:38 PM

I think the 'Trump solution' (No legal basis but an ad hoc approach to practically everything) will not obtain in the case of the American 'Jihadi Bride'. I've run into a Saudi professional, lives full time in Arabia, full blown Wahhabi but by virtue of being born in the U.S. a legal American citizen. I don't think that can be changed without a Constitutional amendment. By now I'm sure we are all aware of services that provide for foreign women to visit the United States on what I believe is a tourist visa and give birth in the United States. Haven't heard the Current Occupant opine on this matter.

Meanwhile there are plenty of legal ways to intercept and arrange protection from and for Jihadi Bride. The American Way would be to arrange an appearance on "Love Boat". Since that is not running anymore we can probably do a stand in on Law and Order. Or NCIS DC.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 03:28 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ubaidah_ibn_al-Jarrah


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 02:45 PM

Jarrah is a type of Australian tree.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 02:33 PM

From the BBC



How do you deradicalise someone?


Parsons Green bomber Ahmed Hassan had been enrolled in a "deradicalisation" program, but still went on to carry out his attack

"Hassan had carried out the attack with “ruthless determination and almost military efficiency”, said the judge. “There is no doubt in my mind that you are a very dangerous and devious individual.”

More than 50 people were injured when a fireball swept through the carriage, burning passengers’ skin, hair and clothing, or suffered crush injuries as people fell over each other while trying to escape."

Nikita Malik, who heads up the Centre on Radicalisation and Terrorism at the Henry Jackson Society, has carried out research into women who have joined IS and then returned home with their children.

She said: "Unfortunately, even the deradicalisation programme we have for returnees - which is a Desistance and Disengagement programme - incentivises people in it to lie because the notes are shared with the judges who then determine how often they can see their child."

Shamima Begum names her son Jarrah, which means 'able fighter'

Historian Tom Holland asks why, if the teen wants to 'return to Britain in peace', her newborn's name honours a general famous for 'beating infidels'


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 12:04 PM

Jumping in at the bottom:

The US has it's own version of this, a young woman whose family is from Yemen, her father was a diplomat, but she was born in New Jersey after he stopped being a diplomat. She has birthright citizenship and has been issues passports twice (the original and a renewal). Yet Trump says she can't return.

Thing is, Trump is dead wrong. She can return. She needs to be debriefed and they might decide she belongs in prison, but she CAN return. Pompeo says she has no basis to return, but he is also wrong. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/us/islamic-state-american-women.html

Stay tuned to this station.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 11:43 AM

if she's so determined to be fetched back here...

maybe she should change her name to "Ronnie Biggs"...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 06:02 AM

Bangladesh has now refused entry to this teenager and her new-born child
They are now stateless Britons condemned to a refugee camp quite likely to be wiped out by revenge-taking Assad supporters
Makes you proud - innit !
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 04:50 AM

In December 2018, Kurdish authorities held 550 foreign women about 1200 in captivity. A large part of the children were born in Syrian territory controlled by ISIS. Many of the women still shared ISIS ideology and lacked passports and therefore Kurdish authorities were reluctant to release them. While initially the women and children were kept along civilian Syrian refugees, this proved untenable as hard-liners among the women caused problems when they ganged up and assaulted women who took off the Islamic burqa. They also prevented other women and children from listening to music provided by their captors

Shemimma Begun is being held in the north east in Kurdish controlled territory. The extremists seem a real delight.
How successfully do you change the spots on those leopards?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 03:15 AM

I’m reminded of the Mitford daughter so in love with Hitler that she attempted suicide when England declared war on Nazi Germany, and her sister, an English Nazi. Totally different attitudes to their radicalisation then...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Feb 19 - 01:58 AM

And once again Steve - Amen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 06:02 PM

Right. Here's a new appeal to all the decent thinking members of this forum. Please do not engage in any shape or form with Iains. His modus operandi is to post a cod-moderate post, then to subsequently inject poison and rabid insults. He will always do this and it is very foolish to allow yourself to be suckered into responding to one of his superficially "reasonable" posts. You know very well what will happen. Let this sour old man post his bile in unanswered isolation. That's the best way to get rid of him. Cheers, folks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 05:40 PM

In my view, compassion isn't rationed. I have the utmost pity for and sympathy with any young person on whatever side of whatever conflict who has been abused, indoctrinated and used as cheap 'cannon fodder'.

I know that many ex-servicemen are traumatised and suffer from PTSD.
They deserve all the help they need to improve their mental health.

I have a particular interest (because my husband has studied this) in cases of young African boys who have been forced to carry weapons and fight in civil wars. (Rwanda, Cote d'Ivoire for example) They were/are drugged to dampen their fear and probably mentally damaged for life.

By wishing for better treatment for one casualty one doesn't therefore not care about all the others.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 05:30 PM

Did I say that I was happy about that? Putting children in wars is child abuse no matter who is doing it. And if "Her Britannic Majesty's government" is doing it, they are not doing it in my name.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 20 Feb 19 - 05:23 PM

Date: 20 Feb 19 - 03:53 PM ..........

It is "we" in the sense of Her Britannic Majesty's Government acting on your behalf, whether you like it or not.

The youngest age that potential recruits can apply to join the British army is 15 years and 7 months. They cannot go on active service until 18.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/shortcuts/2013/apr/23/british-armed-forces-16-year-olds
Does it make any difference that in the case of these young soldiers we call it training and for Isis volunteers it is called radicalisation.
It is well established that radicalisation of jihadis can present a potential risk when they return.
It is also well documented that many soldiers on returning to civvy street can carry trauma and injuries that prevent their effective reintegration into society.
With limited resources which of the two groups listed is the more deserving of our sympathy and help.
I have a great problem in accepting the young lady is the poor exploited victim of circumstance that has been painted. Unless drugged and kidnapped you do not travel to foreign countries and cross borders without tacit consent. The only mitigation I would accept is the complicity of government being afraid of upsetting sensibilities, by refusing to clean out the Augean stables of extremism and fundamentalism in certain mosques.
Hers is not the only case. Many other jihadi brides are in camps or already returned along with unknown numbers of jihadi fighters.
Future wars are likely to show a similar asymmetry to that exemplified by the situation in Syria. This requires a viable solution is found quickly. Letting jihadis slide back without sanction poses an unacceptable risk.

Harping on about Shemima Begun being a child is simply a device to dodge reality. Criminal responsibility in the UK is 10 years old.
The arguments presented by many here blithely ignore the fact that by their arbitrary standards many of our frontline troops are children.
Why are you happy to accept that? Your silence on the subject is deafening. You make no comment on the fact that "children" are in uniform and being killed, injured, mentally damaged and given scant resources to rejoin society. Yet one adult with a child offering succour to our enemies is treated here as though the entire world is against her. What a bizarre ranking of priorities.


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