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BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?

Iains 16 Feb 19 - 05:11 PM
Backwoodsman 16 Feb 19 - 05:06 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 19 - 04:48 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 19 - 04:31 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Feb 19 - 04:27 PM
Iains 16 Feb 19 - 04:23 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 19 - 04:07 PM
Senoufou 16 Feb 19 - 03:51 PM
bobad 16 Feb 19 - 03:50 PM
punkfolkrocker 16 Feb 19 - 03:40 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 19 - 03:25 PM
Dave Hanson 16 Feb 19 - 03:16 PM
Iains 16 Feb 19 - 02:57 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Feb 19 - 02:15 PM
Iains 16 Feb 19 - 12:51 PM
punkfolkrocker 16 Feb 19 - 12:29 PM
Iains 16 Feb 19 - 12:04 PM
Backwoodsman 16 Feb 19 - 12:00 PM
Senoufou 16 Feb 19 - 11:39 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 19 - 09:30 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 19 - 09:27 AM
Iains 16 Feb 19 - 09:27 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Feb 19 - 09:14 AM
Big Al Whittle 16 Feb 19 - 08:37 AM
Senoufou 16 Feb 19 - 08:07 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 19 - 07:58 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 19 - 07:32 AM
Roger the Skiffler 16 Feb 19 - 07:07 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Feb 19 - 07:04 AM
Iains 16 Feb 19 - 07:01 AM
Senoufou 16 Feb 19 - 06:06 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 Feb 19 - 05:52 AM
Mr Red 16 Feb 19 - 05:47 AM
Jos 16 Feb 19 - 05:28 AM
Rob Naylor 16 Feb 19 - 04:57 AM
Iains 16 Feb 19 - 04:39 AM
Senoufou 16 Feb 19 - 04:11 AM
Big Al Whittle 16 Feb 19 - 03:44 AM
robomatic 15 Feb 19 - 10:35 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Feb 19 - 09:47 PM
Big Al Whittle 15 Feb 19 - 09:38 PM
Big Al Whittle 15 Feb 19 - 09:22 PM
Senoufou 15 Feb 19 - 06:24 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Feb 19 - 06:04 PM
Dave the Gnome 15 Feb 19 - 05:12 PM
Big Al Whittle 15 Feb 19 - 04:25 PM
vectis 15 Feb 19 - 04:06 PM
Dave the Gnome 15 Feb 19 - 04:00 PM
Big Al Whittle 15 Feb 19 - 03:32 PM
Dave the Gnome 15 Feb 19 - 02:43 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 05:11 PM

Since Dec 2016 Britain has officially carried out thousands of airstrikes against ISIS. Whether with an official UN mandate or not it puts the UK in a state of war against ISIS.
Theresa May’s official spokesperson said: “Any British citizen who does return from taking part in the conflict must be in no doubt they will be questioned, investigated and potentially prosecuted.

“Decisions on how people are dealt with are made on a case-by-case basis to ensure the most appropriate action is taken. Whatever the circumstances of an individual case, we have to, and will, protect the public.”

Security services have a watchlist of known Isis members and aim to intercept any returning via air or sea ports.

It seems the bleeding heart liberals here are happy to put British lives at risk rather than thoroughly investigate anyone with suspected links to a terrorist organisation.(deliberately travelling to the caliphate creates a definite link in my book)

In WW2 under Churchill's regime there was no such squeamishness, or pussyfooting around, both sexes were interned by the thousands.
A jolly sensible idea. First neutralize then sift and winnow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 05:06 PM

Amen Steve, amen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 04:48 PM

As for nasty beliefs, Kevin, well I remember having a few beliefs at nineteen that I've spent the rest of my life extirpating. Being brought up a Catholic in an all-boys grammar school run by blinkered priests in a northern working-class town in the sixties was hardly conducive to the early development of enlightened attitudes. It was The Done Thing to be anti-nigger, anti-Paki, anti-Jew, anti-queer, anti-proddy and anti-equality for women, and no parent, teacher or peer would question you. Basically because they thought the same as you. Things you subsequently have to fight against in your own head all by yourself. Which is why it makes me sick to hear all these sanctimonious bastards condemning a young woman simply for the things she's allegedly said in a stinking refugee camp.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 04:31 PM

Notable that even Ken Clarke said that it shouldn't be beyond the wit of a great nation like ours to contain any "threat" from a nineteen-year-old pregnant girl on her return to the country. The whiff of self-righteous bullshit around this gets stronger by the day. It's disgusting, frankly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 04:27 PM

We don't have the USA Patriot Act in the UK.   There are laws that would criminalise those kinds of activities, though I suspect a bit more carefully drafted.

But I'm not sure how the kind of things Shamina has been involved in would fit into any of those headings. Could just being married to an Isis fighter be counted as "service" or ""providing material support for terrorism"?

The thing is, having nasty beliefs in itself doesn’t count as criminal. There has to be some kind of action involved, outside places like the Isis Caliphate. (Of course a way for a government to crim8nalise beliefs is to require some kind of loyalty oath or its equivalent. But we don't have that for civilians.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 04:23 PM

Well in this country you are guilty when the justice system finds you guilty.
But there is no guarantee that you will get bail, if under suspicion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 04:07 PM

Well in this country you are guilty when the justice system finds you guilty. Not before. Oddly, I thought it was the same in the US. At least it was after you stopped lynching people.

Yes your gender has everything to do with it when you are a bloke suggesting the separation of a mother from her child. You are in realms that you can't possibly understand. You're an admirable man in every regard but I'm completely at odds with you on this. Happy to leave it at that if you are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 03:51 PM

If she's allowed to return to UK but is convicted of a crime (and we can't be sure she has actually committed any) and sent to prison, she will be allowed to have her baby with her in one of the mother-and-baby units in UK women's prisons until it is 18 months old.

I don't agree with separating babies from their mothers, unless Social Services find the mother to be 'unfit', or that she is living with a violent/abusive/paedophile etc 'unfit' partner.

I think it would be perfectly possible for her to be monitored by MI6 or something to make sure she wasn't in touch with IS or engaging in any nefarious activities.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: bobad
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 03:50 PM

Everybody seems to be assuming that she must be guilty of some criminal activity.

Don't know what the law says in the UK but she would be guilty of criminal activity in the US.

In American law, providing material support for terrorism is a crime prohibited by the USA PATRIOT Act and codified in title 18 of the United States Code, sections 2339A and 2339B. It applies primarily to groups designated as terrorists by the State Department. The four types of support described are "training," "expert advice or assistance," "service," and "personnel."


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 03:40 PM

Steve - just like I said, a pragmatic compromise to see where any debate takes it...

Especially in the light of total number of infants dieing in holding camps,
and tory indignation, which at worst couldn't give a shit if both mother and baby die in painful childbirth...

btw.. my gender has nothing to do with it...

At least removing the baby from squalid conditions of near certain death,
to the loving care of it's grandparents in Britain,
gives mother and law enforcement breathing space for a few weeks or months...

..and I repeat my gender has F all to do with any of this...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 03:25 PM

You're a man, pfr, and here you are suggesting the separation before judgement and trial of a mother and her baby. Call me a bloody feminist then, but I simply can't stomach that. Right. If she comes back and is found guilty under our justice system of heinous crimes, fine. Until then, well aren't we all so bloody full of righteous notions? I don't usually swear at the radio, but when I listened to Any Answers this afternoon I had to go outside to get some fresh air. Smug Tory effin' Britain at its finest. It seems to be trying to leak into this thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 03:16 PM

The baby's father is Dutch, she could go to the Netherlands.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 02:57 PM

This shouldn’t whole affair shouldn’t be treated as a big deal.
!)https://www.researchgate.net/publication/277204743_Female_Terrorists_in_ISIS_al_Qaeda_and_21rst_Century_Terrorism
2)https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/23/number-of-women-and-children-joining-isis-significantly-underestimated
3)https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/04/how-london-teenager-plotted-attacks-with-all-female-terror-cell
4)http://caa.ucpress.edu/content/11/1-2/235
6)and the list goes on.......

Sugar and spice,
And all that's nice;
That's what little girls are made of.

The above nursery rhyme may hold true in "once upon a time land" but some of the young ladies above certainly do not fit that particular category.
Discretion is the better part of valour. Keep them banged up until the risk is assessed.

Things that go bang can make a horrendous mess of the human body.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to K?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 02:15 PM

Everybody seems to be assuming that she must be guilty of some criminal activity. That seems highly questionable. Even if it is correct that she still holds the most extreme and abhorrent views, that isn't in itself criminal. She didn't fight for Isis, and she has no kind of official status within the caliphate "State".

In fact it is far from clear what her actual attitudes are, even if that was particularly relevant. Being hardened against the sight dead bodies or parts of dead bodies in the street - "not being fazed" - is quite a common reaction in some circumstances. We can't undo our past mistakes. When Edith Piaf sang "non regrette risen" she wasn't saying she was happy about things that had happened and things that she'd done, but that they were a fixed part of her.

This shouldn’t whole affair shouldn’t be treated as a big deal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 12:51 PM

Our American cousins are not inclined to be so forgiving. Who is to say what approach is the best?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1087561/ISIS-news-islamic-state-US-british-isil-fighters-Guantanamo-Bay-Shamima-Begum


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 12:29 PM

She says she wants to return for the benefit of her baby...

a pragmatic compromise...???

Provide medical aid to ensure safe birth of the baby,
then bring it back here to be cared for and raised by it's grandparents...

Investigation and evaluation of the the young mother's fitness to come home to Briish society
can then be dealt with while she is still pending in refuge abroad...


That seems politically neutral enought to me...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 12:04 PM

"Osborne said that any ISIS member who did return to Britain would have to be "properly investigated" for potential terrorism offences.

"I think it's a bit of justice and actually a bit of compassion. Just making people stateless is not really a solution and it is asking other countries to deal with our problems when they've got their own problems," he added.

A late 2017 report by the Soufan Center put the figure for returned ISIS fighters at 5,600 from 33 different countries. It revealed that on average 20 to 30 percent of those from Europe are already back.

In the U.K., Sweden and Denmark, an estimated 50 percent have already returned.
MI5, the U.K.'s domestic counterintelligence agency, revealed in October of 2017 that it had 20,000 people on its counterterrorism radar.


Until vetted, and sentenced or freed, Shamima Begum is part of the problem and poses a potential risk. It would be stupidity to treat her any other way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 12:00 PM

"Let's not get all prickly and unpleasant with each other."

Most of us aren't getting 'all prickly and unpleasant with each other', Sen. Sadly there are those who have no filter and just can't help themselves. Let them kick lumps out of one another without further comment from the grown-ups, while the grown-ups continue with civil discourse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 11:39 AM

I think when one remembers Manchester Arena and all the other atrocities of terrorist bomb attacks, our 'once mighty nation' would be wise to be wary of ex-Isis members. Shamima could have connections who might try to manipulate her, or she might still be in total sympathy with their ethos.

Let's not get all prickly and unpleasant with each other. It's an interesting problem, and being fair, we don't know everything about the case.

I just feel it's very sad that a promising young life has been wrecked, watched her babies die, been separated from her husband, seen appalling sights and although, still very young, is again heavily pregnant and facing giving birth in a dump.
I hope a safe solution will be arrived at.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 09:30 AM

Don't let him goad you, Jim. We're doing so well with him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 09:27 AM

Utterly unfair, Al. Jim's post referred only to events of the last couple of decades, nothing to do with empire or guilt trips. The focus in this matter should be on how we decide to do what is right, and we should be focusing on that through the lens of our justice system and our claim to be a civilised country.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 09:27 AM

Rather amusing to witness a pregnant teenager sending a once mighty nation into a cold sweat - we shall overcome eh!!

Oh Dear! The resident anglophobe is off again.

she told me. “And I don’t regret coming here.”
She could have said nothing!

If you can prosecute for libel on the basis of words uttered, then words can also condemn those those that boast of their actions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 09:14 AM

Rather amusing to witness a pregnant teenager sending a once mighty nation into a cold sweat - we shall overcome eh!!
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 08:37 AM

The middle classes are on a guilt trip because of what the British Empire got up to, and as usual Jim has got chapter
and verse - so we'll have them back, I guess.,

And as she has gallantly redressed the balance, maybe we ought to give her the Queens Award for Terrorism. There seems to be no end of volunteers here to deliver the vote of thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 08:07 AM

Well said Steve. Her remarks have to be viewed in the light of where she is. She's almost ready to give birth, in a 'camp' with possibly IS supporters all round her listening to every word she utters.
It must be frightening.
We shall have to see what transpires regarding her repatriation.
One can only hope it will all be for the best.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 07:58 AM

And by the way, whatever she says to journalists shouldn't have the slightest bearing on how we should view her in terms of how our justice system should treat her. If or when she appears in a court of law, her expressed remorse or lack of it may well be taken into consideration by a judge. I'm fine with that, but I'm not fine with the flagging up of soundbite-sized reported remarks she may be making in a context we know very little about as yet. It's very easy with the help of the tabloids to get sucked into a lynch-mob mentality. So let's not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 07:32 AM

Thank goodness there's someone giving the bigger picture, so cheers for that, Jim.

As for this:

"As to how much is spent on rehabilitating her, treating her for PTSD etc, I'm somewhat aligned with Al here, knowing how little help the government has given to a number of service personnel suffering from PTSD..."

I'm afraid there's some flawed logic flying around here. Perhaps "two wrongs wouldn't make a right" would cover it.

And one or two people here are still speculating about the circumstances we're not yet apprised of in this case, then rushing to judgement. As I said earlier, let's not resort to tabloidism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 07:07 AM

Her family want her back but agree she should be investigated on her return. Seems fair. It would be nice if she now repents her decision and is prepared to warn other young girls but no sign of this. At least if she is here her family can look after the child and authorities might be able to get useful intelligence from her.
RtS


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 07:04 AM

Thought I'd posted this - hpe it wasn't deleted - that would be censorship
In my opinion the fact that this young woman was a child and was almost certainly groomed should be a major consideration in this case
The terms 'Jihadist' and 'terrorist' are long overdue for examination - it has been admitted that they are being misused   
Britain shares a large responsibility for the rise of Assad and his thugs - selling riot equipment to suppress the Arab Spring protests, selling chemicals capable of manufacturing weapons, then voting not to become involved in the atrocities of the Civil War that ensued
Young people, possibly this young woman, became =involved, not out of religious fervour bu to fill the gap the West left when they allowed Assad to do what he is still doing
It little behooved them to punish one of his possible victims
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 07:01 AM

“I’m not the same silly little 15-year-old schoolgirl who ran away from Bethnal Green four years ago,” she told me. “And I don’t regret coming here.”

Does not sound like repentance to me, or a request to have help to return. As we are not in the schengen zone we can collar her on her return and let due process take it's course, bearing in mind that to spare the rod is to spoil the child.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 06:06 AM

Some interesting remarks from the head of MI6 (made me smile as the chap was named as Alex Younger, known as 'C' - that's his cover blown then!)
At the Munich Security Conference he said, "All experience tells us that once someone has put themselves in that sort of position, they are likely to have acquired the skills and connections that make them potentially very dangerous...public safety is the first thing we will consider."
I feel he should be listened to, as MI6 must have all the details and a vast knowledge of these things, and are more aware of the inherent dangers than uninformed 'civilians' could ever be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 05:52 AM

You could be right, Rob. My initial thoughts were to try and remember what I was like at 15. 50+ years have passed since so I could be wrong and even if not, I should not apply what I was like to someone from a different time, area and upbringing. Even if she was aware of what IS were though I doubt if she would have been aware of the full implications of her decision and her poor decision at 15 should not mar the rest of her life.

I fully accept that the government does not do enough to help traumatised service personnel but how will denying this girl any assistance help to put that wrong right? Surely, if she does receive counselling or whatever it will help to build a case to improve the assistance for all people traumatised by violence?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 05:47 AM

Surely the legal position is to allow her to return to her country of origin, and there to face the full might of the law regarding terrorism.

She knows this and obviously prefers a few years in a UK jail to the prison she has found herself in. Whether she has learned her lesson, is yet to be established, but propaganda got her to where she is, and propaganda could return her to society. But would we spend the time and money sorting out a mess created by youth and stupidity?

Should we punish her family for allowing her to be radicalised? Resposibility starts in the home, after all. Then again - if they are sanguine they have their punishment and would be contrite, but words are cheap.

For sure it ain't a binary option, life never is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jos
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 05:28 AM

I read somewhere that she used her older sister's passport.

When the UK government repatriates people they expect them or their families to repay the cost.

Even if she does manage to return to England, it seems likely that the baby will be born before then, so (unless she is in a British consulate at the time) will the baby then be a citizen of the country in which it is born?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 04:57 AM

They stole relatives' jewellery and sold it. One of them was 16 and able to book tickets. They also held enough money back for paying the guy who smuggled them into Syria.

I struggle a bit with the idea that they didn't know what they were getting into.... The video of relief worker Alan Henning being beheaded was all over the Internet well before they left, and I can't believe they weren't aware of it.

A lot of the people I know who are saying "they were just kids" are the same people who were campaigning for the referendum voting age to be lowered to 16 on the grounds that people of that age are perfectly capable of exercising mature judgement.

I'm a bit ambivalent about how to treat her.... As a British citizen, and assuming she doesn't have dual nationality, she has the right to return, but I don't think the government should provide funds or resources for her to do so. Maybe the congregation of the mosque her family attends could give some charitable assistance? If she's 9months pregnant she won't be allowed to fly, though.

As to how much is spent on rehabilitating her, treating her for PTSD etc, I'm somewhat aligned with Al here, knowing how little help the government has given to a number of service personnel suffering from PTSD who I know from my "tabbing" events.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 04:39 AM

Senoufou you raise some interesting questions. Most airlines allow children from 12 to 15 years old to travel alone but must also request the accompanied minor service.When traveling with a low cost airline, children generally must be 16 years old or over to be able to travel alone, otherwise boarding will be denied.
       Perhaps the security services should study the manifests, seating patterns of the period in question and also who purchased the tickets. Should be able to generate a few prosecutions from the data obtained.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 04:11 AM

I wonder where the three girls got the money for their air fares to Turkey? And who bought their tickets? Surely no airline would accept bookings from three minors. Adults must have been involved.
And they must have obtained valid UK passports in order to board the plane. Who organised and paid for that?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 03:44 AM

Yes Steve - to be honest that's the very thing that makes me wonder.

Of course, you can't generalise. But I taught for many years in the inner ring of Brum. Mostly down the Soho Road where all the riots were.
And I would say that by and large, kids with Asian and West Indian backgrounds were much more closely supervised by their parents than most of the white kids.

Of course, times change. In those days everybody knew everyone else - there was something of a village atmosphere. No one could fart without everyone in the area knowing about it. And that would true about everyone North of the city. You'd pass on some news to someone in Perry Bar or Erdington - and nine times out of ten, another member of the family would have already passed it on.

I don't think you could set up a terrorist group without your Mum finding out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 10:35 PM

I do not think I have the background to air an opinion vis-a-vis her legal position in the UK. But age 15 in our day and age is still being a kid. I'm kinda questioning the presence of adults (parents?) in her life but I've come to a change in attitude within the last few months regarding women's 'poor choices' in men. I used to blame the victim on the idea that women should choose better men. But I've changed my mind on this. Why should women be better judges ofr character than the men they find? And there are a lot of crummy men and they will say anything.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 09:47 PM

She came from Bethnal Green. I don't know what Bethnal Green's like these days, but I knew it well back in the '70s. In fact, Mrs Steve lived there when I first met her, living as she was in a council block just off Globe Road. I spent many a night there (I was living in Poplar meself), and we often went to the Bishop Bonner of a Thursday night to see Chas and Dave before fame came to them. It was a tough area, a place where a lot of the kids came from when I started teaching in Poplar, a ten-minute ride away on the 106 bus. I don't think too many of us understand what it's like to live in places like that. No excuses. Just an observation to give context. I suppose there's been some gentrification. But I wouldn't mind betting that most of the place isn't that different from when I knew it then. So I guess that their parents were pulled this, that and the other way, just like the parents I knew back then.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 09:38 PM

I remember when I was 13 or 14. We were a Quaker family, but we lived in this little Lincolnshire were there wasn't even an all night Gents toilet. (There was one in the park for the gay community, patronised by my Latin and History teachers - but that is no matter).

Anyway, the Mormons came to town and started a Youth Club for kids my age. They were fabulous looking guys. American accents, smart suits and they had their hair done like John Kennedy.(JFK)

So I went to the youth club. ONCE!

when my parents found out I had been involved with the Mormons, they went apeshit! in fact double apeshit!!
And that's how I was saved from a life of polygamy, and drinking cafeine substitute, and Osmond Brothers concerts.

I mean think about it! IS! Those parents must have been asleep....


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 09:22 PM

I agree theres not enough information to really understand.

I wondered at the time what the hell their parents were doing . Surely they must have given an idea of the thoughts that must have been haunting them. most 14 year olds never shut up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 06:24 PM

I'm really very heartened by the comments on here. Measured, humane and civilised - nobody spitting feathers or nasty remarks about the woman.
Mudcat folk are usually sensible and wise, and this thread demonstrates that.
I hope Shamima can get back to the UK and the relevant authorities will be able to find out exactly what she has been doing, and make sure her baby is well cared-for.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 06:04 PM

There's a lot of speculative thinking going on here. She's a citizen of this country and should come home if she wants to. Then she needs to be interrogated. Big time. If she's allegedly committed any offence, she should be tried according to the conventions of our justice system. We do have ways of dealing sensitively with mothers with babies. There is every possibility that she's been groomed, and every possibility that she is currently in a place where she can't say what she really thinks, and what she's saying right now should not be regarded as in any way incriminating, indigestible though it is. Beware of tabloidism, yeah? Finally, she could contribute hugely in persuading other young people to resist radicalisation. Who knows? At the end of the day, we can all have opinions, but we can only have informed opinions if we are informed. Which, currently, we are not, not sufficiently.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 05:12 PM

Focus, Al, focus. You're not making sense with this random posting of unrelated sound bites.

Don't let her in because service personnel need help
Take her into your house
I'm out of here apart from to make daft comments about severed heads

Have you been taking Daily Mail tablets?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 04:25 PM

dunno....i've never seen a severed head. I'm not sure what the correct reaction would be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: vectis
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 04:06 PM

She was a child when she left and is not yet out of her teens. She should be allowed back for her baby's birth and fully debriefed and de-radicalised.
I saw he "not fazed" as youthful bravado, putting on a show rather than coldness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 04:00 PM

subjected to due process of law - with a prison sentence the likely outcome.

Is that what you really want for traumatised ex service personel, Al?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 03:32 PM

' to be that she should be allowed to return, and then thoroughly investigated, de-briefed, de-radicalised (if that's possible), and subjected to due process of law - with a prison sentence the likely outcome.'

One of my wife's schoolfriends runs a counselling service for traumatised ex-servicemen.

I think you would find that the set of proposals you are advancing would cost about fifty times what is spent on loyal but damaged servants of this country.

still that's what you all seem to want. so i'll bow out of the consensus discussion as usual.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 02:43 PM

now that she is no longer a poor brainwashed victim.

Which is just the opposite of what I and many others have said, Al. I think you are better sticking to making up songs rather than making up what people have said.


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