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BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?

Bonzo3legs 17 Feb 19 - 12:19 PM
Iains 17 Feb 19 - 12:17 PM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 19 - 11:57 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 19 - 11:50 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Feb 19 - 11:45 AM
Senoufou 17 Feb 19 - 11:32 AM
Bonzo3legs 17 Feb 19 - 11:01 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 19 - 10:31 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 19 - 10:30 AM
Iains 17 Feb 19 - 10:08 AM
Senoufou 17 Feb 19 - 10:05 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 19 - 09:49 AM
punkfolkrocker 17 Feb 19 - 09:46 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 19 - 09:22 AM
Raggytash 17 Feb 19 - 09:04 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 19 - 08:31 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Feb 19 - 08:12 AM
Bonzo3legs 17 Feb 19 - 08:09 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 19 - 07:24 AM
Iains 17 Feb 19 - 07:10 AM
Senoufou 17 Feb 19 - 06:43 AM
Iains 17 Feb 19 - 06:35 AM
Iains 17 Feb 19 - 06:07 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 19 - 06:00 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 19 - 05:52 AM
Jos 17 Feb 19 - 05:42 AM
Senoufou 17 Feb 19 - 05:36 AM
Iains 17 Feb 19 - 05:19 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 19 - 05:04 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Feb 19 - 04:54 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Feb 19 - 04:42 AM
Iains 17 Feb 19 - 04:09 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 19 - 03:59 AM
Senoufou 17 Feb 19 - 03:57 AM
Iains 17 Feb 19 - 03:53 AM
Mr Red 17 Feb 19 - 02:57 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Feb 19 - 12:53 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 19 - 10:10 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Feb 19 - 09:23 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 19 - 07:29 PM
punkfolkrocker 16 Feb 19 - 07:20 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Feb 19 - 07:13 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 19 - 06:36 PM
Iains 16 Feb 19 - 06:03 PM
Backwoodsman 16 Feb 19 - 06:01 PM
punkfolkrocker 16 Feb 19 - 05:56 PM
Backwoodsman 16 Feb 19 - 05:33 PM
Iains 16 Feb 19 - 05:33 PM
punkfolkrocker 16 Feb 19 - 05:14 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Feb 19 - 05:12 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 12:19 PM

Nothing changes here I can see from the usual suspects


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 12:17 PM

If you believe the Crown Prosecution Service is not leant on by the government and security agencies on cases that have a significant "political" bent then I am afraid you are away with the faeries.

Now the link below you can take at face value or you can probe a little deeper and come up with an entirely different agenda.
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/news/intelligence-security-and-the-law

Let us take a couple of examples.
Tommy Robinson was arrested for contempt of court, hauled before a judge, sentenced and incarcerated in the space of an unprecedented 5 hours. Do you seriously believe it all happened "just like that"?
Tommy Cooper's magic or government complicity?
or
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/14/mi6-licence-to-kill-and-torture

The real world is a dirty place at times, luckily most of the time we are shielded from the reality.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 11:57 AM

English: raghead
raghead in British
('rg?h?d)
noun
especially US
an offensive term for a person who wears a turban, keffiyeh, etc
Collins English Dictionary. Harper Collins Publishers


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 11:50 AM

"Raghead is just British Army slang for nasty jihadists and daish types only, not decent folk, s"
Raghead is a term of abuse aimed at Arabs in general both ib Britain and America, by racist scum
Whore is an abusive term aimed at women who sell their bodies
To describe a pregnant teenager as a "raghead's whore" is beneath contempt, no apology needed
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 11:45 AM

You have nothing to apologise for, Sen. Our racist Tory shit-for-brains Bonzo, on the other hand, adds shameless obfuscation to disgusting insult...

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/raghead


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 11:32 AM

I see Bonzo. In that case I apologise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 11:01 AM

Senoufou - Raghead is just British Army slang for nasty jihadists and daish types only, not decent folk, so no offence intended at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 10:31 AM

They decide. Sorry about that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 10:30 AM

The Crown Prosecution Service is a body independent of the government. They decided how to proceed once police investigation has taken place. Here's a big chunk from their website.

The decision to charge

Role of the Crown Prosecution Service
The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) is the independent public authority responsible for prosecuting people in England and Wales who have been charged by the police with a criminal offence.

In undertaking this role we:

Advise the police on cases for possible prosecution
Review cases submitted by the police for prosecution in accordance with the principles in The Code for Crown Prosecutors
Consider the alternatives to prosecution in appropriate circumstances
Where the decision is to prosecute, determine the charge in all but minor cases
Prepare cases for court
Present those cases at court.
Once the police have completed their investigations, they will refer the case to us for advice on how to proceed in all but the most minor and routine cases. We will then make a decision on whether a suspect should be charged, and what that charge should be.

The Crown Prosecution Service does not act for victims or the families of victims in the same way as solicitors act for their clients. We act on behalf of the public and not just in the interests of any particular individual.

Our prosecutor will read the file and consider the two tests laid down in The Code for Crown Prosecutors, which sets out the basic principles that crown prosecutors must follow when making prosecution decisions. These tests must be applied in every case.

The evidential test
The prosecutor must first decide whether or not there is enough evidence against the defendant for a realistic prospect of conviction.

This means that the magistrates or jury are more likely than not to convict the defendant of the charge. If there is not a realistic prospect of conviction, the case must not go ahead, no matter how important or serious it may be.

It is the duty of every Crown Prosecutor to make sure that the right person is prosecuted for the right offence. In doing so, Crown Prosecutors must always act in the interests of justice and not only for the purpose of obtaining a conviction.

The public interest test
If the crown prosecutor decides that there is a realistic prospect of conviction they must then consider whether it is in the public interest to prosecute the defendant. While the public interest will vary from case to case, broadly speaking the more serious an alleged offence the more likely it will be that a prosecution is needed in the public interest.

A prosecution is less likely to be needed if, for example, a court would be likely to fix a minimal or token penalty, or the loss or harm connected with the offence was minor and the result of a single incident.

The interests of the victim are an important factor when considering the public interest. Crown Prosecutors will always take into account the consequences for the victim and any views expressed by the victim or victims' family.

Deciding not to prosecute
If the crown prosecutor decides that a prosecution should not go ahead, the case will be stopped, usually by what is called 'discontinuance'. Unless there are special circumstances which mean that it is not appropriate to do so, you will be told the reasons for the decision to stop the case.

Often the hardest decision can be to conclude that there isn't enough of a case to go to court, even where the public favour a prosecution.

The decisions made by the CPS are based on publicly available, clear and visible legal guidance.


That all gives a pretty good starting point as to what we mean by due process of the law. Note that there is no reference to the government in any of it. Other aspects such as the rules for arrest and being held in custody and the right to representation, and the conduct of court hearings, are equally independent of government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 10:08 AM

What crimes she has actually committed, if any, will be decided by a judge and jury after due process, not by the government

Due process is by the government or does a fluffy bunny carry out the interrogation and decide if there are grounds for prosecution.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 10:05 AM

Bonzo, we've had some lovely conversations about your dog Dreamy. But that comment is deeply insulting.

I personally am proud to be a 'raghead's whore', having been married to a lovely Muslim man for many years.

Please have a think about what you've posted. It's completely unacceptable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 09:49 AM

I'll drink tho that Rag
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 09:46 AM

Bonz in his usual lefty liberal baiting wind up mode
does serve to remind us
of baser ideas that are representative of a dominant majority of British public opinion...

Our bonz might actually be cute and cuddly compared to the far more fanatical exteme right thugs
who have invaded and conquered youtube
to monopolise it as their own propaganda platform......


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 09:22 AM

What crimes she has actually committed, if any, will be decided by a judge and jury after due process, not by the government. Once she returns to this country it's a rock-solid cert that she will be incarcerated until she has been thoroughly interrogated. Then she will be released only if she is not considered to be a threat and if she is not charged with terrorist offences. So I'd like to know what kind of "threat" some rather woolly-minded people think she poses merely by coming back. We've just seen one egregious outburst of Islamophobia in this thread. Seems to me that there are some other more subtle and more veiled examples here too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 09:04 AM

I am deeply saddened, but not surprised, by the lack of humanity in some posters on here.

Shamima Begum was a 15 year old girls when she went to Syria, just 15.

When I was 15 I had all sorts of wonderful visions of how I could change the world for the better. Time and age has robbed me of them but I could still dream of a better world.

Now her vision of a better world and mine are at complete odds with each other. However as a nation I consider we have an obligation to ensure she is safely returned to her native shore and hope, given time and education, she may prove to be a valuable resource to combat the indoctrination of organisations such as IS.

I am thankful it was not my daughter or son.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 08:31 AM

Wonder if they'll delete it and throw of the poster !!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 08:12 AM

Note to any mod seeing this thread. Disgusting racist comments such as Bonzos have no place here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 08:09 AM

Frankly she's not worth wasting time over, little more than a raghead's whore.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 07:24 AM

No now the family of a victim of Isis grooming is responsible for bringing her grandchild home home
Makes you wonder why we have British Embassy or United Nations

All this would be laughable if Britain hadn't helped start this war and give Isis a gap to fill in the first place
HIS DESERVES A READ
AND THIS
THIS TOO

The West's dirty hands are becoming even dirtier with incidents like this
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 07:10 AM

What crimes has she actually committed? (serious question)

That would be dependent on the view of the government whenever she returns. To let her off scot free would encourage others. To make an example would make her a martyr and possibly invite retaliation.
I am glad it is not a question I have to answer. There is also the extensive "debriefing" required to establish what, if any, threat she poses.

As far as getting her back is concerned that could present problems.
Syria is still effectively partitioned and I have no idea how fluid those boundaries are. Having a river separating the government forces from the Kurds and Coalition? makes for a nice boundary on a map, but it covers many kilometres so how hard is it? She escaped from the last isis stronghold SE of Palmyra near the Iraq border to a camp in the NE,not too far from the Turkish border, in an area under Kurdish control. The map showing the men in black is somewhat out of date and their territory has shrunk.
But there are numerous caves they can disperse to in government controlled areas. They still pose a threat.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2015/05/syria-country-divided-150529144229467.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/syrian-secret-cave-hideouts-2015-3?r=US&IR=T


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 06:43 AM

I see it's a little boy.
Once she has recovered from the birth, her parents/family could maybe go over and fetch her home. They've offered to take in her baby and raise it if she has to go to prison, as it couldn't be guaranteed she wouldn't face justice.

What crimes has she actually committed? (serious question)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 06:35 AM

Obvious victim? willing stooge, brainwashed idiot? Who cares!
Until proven otherwise her return poses a potential risk.
The perceived risk is of far more importance than how the risk arose.
When the risk is nullified then the whys and wherefores can be established.
Who in their right mind would authorize travel into a potential war zone to repatriate her.

Some here obviously do not understand the concepts of prioritization and risk assessment. She shows no apparent remorse, she lived and gave succour to a terrorist, thereby aiding and abetting him. How many innocent victims resulted from her actions, I wonder?
No matter how you look at it there is a degree of guilt and complicity in her actions. She could have run for cover years ago. That she did not makes a very clear statement of it's own.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 06:07 AM

Telegraph:
Bethnal Green Jihadi bride Shamima Begum 'has given birth' her family announces


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 06:00 AM

Don't know if anybody saw the film 'Argo'
Puts "the risks" of rescuing a pregnant teenager in the comic books where it belongs
Even if they bother there arse about her safety they will fight to have her banged up if she makes it home
This is a sick inhumane way to treat an obvious victim
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 05:52 AM

"The same legal system has an opinion on her antics abroad."

You see, you're falling for tabloidism. We don't know what she's been engaged in and you trivialise things by referring to her "antics." What little we do know, that she was "married" extremely quickly and that she has already lost two babies whilst living in rotten conditions, among other things, strongly suggests to me that she may have suffered serial abuse. Who knows. I don't and you don't, and referring to her experiences as "antics" is tendentious in the most Daily Mail-like fashion imaginable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jos
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 05:42 AM

Maybe a post has been deleted, to make that 100 into a 99.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 05:36 AM

Ha! Post 100!
I think it has already been decided by the government that it would be wrong to put anyone at risk in such a dangerous place to got and fetch her. She must make her way home as best she can.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 05:19 AM

Everyday in every way Im getting better and better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 05:04 AM

Every day in every way....
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 04:54 AM

Steve. BWM. You were doing so well. Then you fell for it again :-( Now, just put it down to a moment of weakness and get back with the programme:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 04:42 AM

Once again I must correct you - I certainly haven't suggested a 'rescue mission', nor have the majority of the other 'bleeding-heart liberals' (your description, certainly not mine) here.

The general consensus is that she should be allowed to return should she wish, and should she and/or her family have the means to secure it. A very different matter to a 'rescue mission'.

More Right-Wing Tory diversionary tactics methinks. Still, it makes a nice change from "Look over there - Corbyn, Antisemitism, Terrorist's Friend!" and the rest of the usual BS.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 04:09 AM

Lynch mob howlings????????????????????????????

A sensible conservative viewpoint.

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/why-risk-our-soldiers-lives-to-save-a-girl-whod-have-been-happy-to-see-their-heads-cut-off/


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 03:59 AM

"Don't let him goad you, Jim. We're doing so well with him."
Beginning to feel like I'm part of an A.A. group
'Course I won't, but thanks for the thought

It's interesting to see how people are skirting around the fact that this young woman was a child when she went and was almost certainly groomed
To compare here to the actions of the Manchester Arena bomber is more than a little inhuman, to my mind
I wonder if these people would be happy if their own children had been sucked to say, a religious sect and hen refused the right to return home because they might infect those she comes into contact with
I see little difference
Terms like 'terrorist' and 'Jihadist' have now become meaningless catchall phrases covering everything from immigration to granting asylum to refugees from war, famine and poverty
The most human statement I have heard so far came from a women from a refugee organisation who suggested that before any decision was taken, the reason why this child became involved should be carefully examined
Makes more sense that the lynch-mob howlings we are getting from elsewhere
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 03:57 AM

I agree wholeheartedly that this country has humanitarian and measured attitudes, and an impartial justice system which would guarantee a fair investigation and/or trial if necessary for Shamima. We don't flog or stone 'bad women' or implement the death penalty, lynch people or put them in Guantanamo-type 'facilities'.

I think she should be repatriated as soon as possible, but must be prepared to 'face the music'.

When I try to remember what I was like at the age of fifteen, I can't imagine what I'd have got up to if I'd been brought up as she had in the 21st Century, a daughter of immigrant muslim parents in E London. I might well have gone for the 'adventure' of idealistically 'serving my faith' and being the 'wife' of some hopefully attractive and romantic 'warrior'. The three girls probably egged each other on and found the whole thing tremendously exciting and 'worthy'.

The discussion on here has been very interesting and compassionate.
Let's hope it all turns out for the best for the young woman.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 03:53 AM

Christ on a bloody bike. What kind of man are you?

Says the one whose party would give the vote to "children" If on the one hand you argue they are adult enough to vote,then the other hand dictates they are adult enough to take responsibility for their actions

I am obviously a realist! I am also very consistent in my views.
What are you?

For the record returning "terrorists" have already had their children taken away from them

From the wail, no less

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6713011/Jihadi-bride-let-Britain-dangerous-daughter-faces-no-terror-chargehttps://mudcat.org/blickifier.cfms.html
to do with Christ on a bike laddie. Are you suggesting she should pedal back to the UK?
nowt


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 02:57 AM

if a young person goes on holiday to, say Ibiza, and gets drunk and robbed of all his money:

Would we expect the British Consulate to help him (or her) to return?

One rule for all. The costs covered by just a loan.

The same legal system has an opinion on her antics abroad.

The irony is that she has rights under British law, but her baby probably has less.

The only get-out I see is that without a passport it is difficult (not impossible) to prove who she is.

We need to see how her parents pronounce, re the way she was radicalised and by who. They need to be more vocal, and active in ther community. And we need news media that can handle the story accurately. What are the odds on the latter?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Feb 19 - 12:53 AM

Amen again, Steve, amen a thousand times.

And thanks pfr, gotcha.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 10:10 PM

Well I agree with that, but this is a bit different. My visceral response to this is as a very imperfect human being to another imperfect human being, and to a nineteen-year-old one at that. I haven't a clue as to why she made that silly decision at fifteen, though I know quite well the area she came from (I lived there myself, in council accommodation, for many years) and can imagine the pulls that she was under. I don't know really. But neither does anyone else in this thread. I'm no herd animal and I'm seeing this in human being terms, or at least I'm trying to. I'm not going to say that she's an individual who needs soft-soaping and I'm not going to say that she should be left off any hook she's on just because she's pregnant. I am going to say that this country claims to be humanitarian and a pillar of justice and fair play. That doesn't mean indulgence at all costs, and it doesn't mean that she shouldn't be tested under stern investigation. But we are not a lynch-mob country and we shouldn't ever let go of those principles that our justice system is founded on. Bottom line, she should come back and face the music. Who could possibly argue with that! But come back she should, if she wants to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 09:23 PM

This actually is an issue in which the dividing line doesn't neatly align with "whether we vote left or right".

Actually, when you actually apply logic in regard to matters of political and social controversy, that's by no means uncommon. Whole ranges of issues get bundled together which have virtually no logical connection, and we behave as if being agreed, or the reverse, on some of them must imply lining up the same way for all or most of the others. And being herd animals we tend to actually behave in that way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 07:29 PM

At this point in this this thread I'm struggling with that.   *angry emoticon*.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 07:20 PM

Bwm - yep I was agreeing and backing you up...

Iains is an intelligent bloke*,
he ought really understand that we're not always the stereotypical SJW lefties he imagines us to be...

[* unlike a lot of the right wing dimwits on Youtube and other popular mass social media sites...]

There's certainly no need for kneejerk hostile insults..

We're all just ordinary folks who can find common agreement on critical issues of law n order,
irrespective of whether we vote left or right...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 07:13 PM

I would question whether it's would be right for the view on this issue expressed by Jacob Rees-Mogg on Question Time on 14 Feb to be properly described as being "bleeding heart liberal".


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 06:36 PM

"It is entirely a mess of her own making"

Christ on a bloody bike. What kind of man are you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 06:03 PM

If she is near term in her pregnancy flying is not recommended and road travel to Turkey would be hazardous so I suspect she will be stuck where she is. That is not ideal as far as her unborn child is concerned and the resulting publicity concerning the mother will likely travel back to wherever she is being held. That also is not ideal. It is entirely a mess of her own making so I have limited sympathy for her. I am totally against any special effort being made to repatriate her, there are many many other pregnant women in the world far more deserving of help. Undoubtedly in the ideal world her unborn child would be better in the UK but I do not see a realistic way for this to happen without diverting resources better used elsewhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 06:01 PM

"Bwm - an opinion survey amongst us lefty liberals might turn up a positive response
to interning returing IS fighters/supporters..."


Yep, that's pretty much what I said....


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 05:56 PM

Bwm - an opinion survey amongst us lefty liberals might turn up a positive response
to interning returing IS fighters/supporters...

...and what about volunteers who went off to fight IS....??


It's a matter of practicalities.. how and where...

Prisons are already diabolically unfit for purpose...
Disused army and holiday camps...???

Though, It'd be a lucrative contract for razor wire and CCTV Surveillance suppliers...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 05:33 PM

"It seems the bleeding heart liberals here are happy to put British lives at risk rather than thoroughly investigate anyone with suspected links to a terrorist organisation.(deliberately travelling to the caliphate creates a definite link in my book)"

Not really true though, is it? There are a number of us here whom I'd guess you, in your testosterone-overloaded Right-Wing Extremist world, would describe as 'bleeding heart liberals', who have proposed precisely what you, yourself are proposing - her detention and in-depth investigation/de-briefing/de-radicalisation (if that is possible), followed by legal proceedings should she be deemed to have committed crimes whilst with IS. Where we may differ is in where she should be detained whilst she is 'processed' as described - I'm gathering (and I may be mistaken) that you favour her being held where she is currently, whereas I and others would prefer that she is detained here in the UK where security is probably more sophisticated, and where she may feel easier about speaking freely.

A word of advice - you will get considerably more respect here, and get a far better reception for your arguments, if you dump the broad-brush, and knock off the deliberate insults and provocation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 05:33 PM

Pfr unless she has dual nationality she cannot be stripped of citizenship, and even with second nationality there is no guarantee of success. The very suggestion is nonsense.


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 05:14 PM

Steve - I offered up an idea for debate - it don't mean I believe in any or all of it..

But for debates sake...

We have high ranking tories proclaiming a stubborn no compromise bullish public stance
that they will do all in their power to prevent this young woman returning...

They are appealing to a mass of supporters who would happily see her executed, or die from neglect...
Or if she insists on remaining alive,
as a consolation prize,
being stripped of British citizenship and excluded forever.
To where, they dont care... as long as it's not here...

Now we must also have to factor in the imminent birth of her baby...

The more sentimental tories may have a soft spot for babies,
and the sanctity of an innocent unborn/newly born [technically British ???]life...

Tricky dilemna.. innit...???

I'd suggest this youg woman who has already suffered loss of 2 infants
might consider the benefit of voluntarily having her newborn temporarily cared for with her family in Britain,
while she is most likely forced to remain in a squalid camp, or inhospitable foreign prison;
while her uncertain return status is at the mercy of hostile politicians, media, and public opinion...???????


Ps.. I like the sound of that "The Admirable punkfolkrocker"...


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Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 19 - 05:12 PM

The authorities certainly would have come down hard on anyone expressing those kind of attitudes in my school, Steve. Not that there was anything particularly "enlightened" about the place. Jacob Reese-Mogg would have fitted in well.

But it's true enough that if we all got judged on the kind of opinions we had at 19 (or 15) many of us would be pariahs today.

However the crucial thing here is that in any case thoughts and opinions in themselves don't count as criminal. Margaret Thatcher's father, who she idolised and sought to emulate, had a bust of Adolf Hitler in his study, But I wouldn't have included that in the trial she ought to have had for things she was responsible for in later life.


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