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UK 60s Folk Club Boom?

Tunesmith 10 Feb 19 - 04:31 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 Feb 19 - 04:35 AM
Tunesmith 10 Feb 19 - 05:08 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Feb 19 - 05:21 AM
GUEST 10 Feb 19 - 05:25 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Feb 19 - 06:03 AM
GUEST,Sean O'Shea 10 Feb 19 - 06:37 AM
Hagman 10 Feb 19 - 06:39 AM
GUEST,Peter 10 Feb 19 - 09:40 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Feb 19 - 09:54 AM
FreddyHeadey 10 Feb 19 - 11:01 AM
Tunesmith 10 Feb 19 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 10 Feb 19 - 11:40 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Feb 19 - 12:06 PM
Vic Smith 10 Feb 19 - 12:20 PM
GUEST 10 Feb 19 - 01:01 PM
Tunesmith 10 Feb 19 - 01:12 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Feb 19 - 01:24 PM
GUEST,Peter 10 Feb 19 - 01:47 PM
Tunesmith 10 Feb 19 - 01:50 PM
GUEST 10 Feb 19 - 03:39 PM
Tunesmith 10 Feb 19 - 04:06 PM
Big Al Whittle 10 Feb 19 - 04:36 PM
GUEST,Hootennanny 10 Feb 19 - 06:06 PM
Big Al Whittle 10 Feb 19 - 06:30 PM
GUEST,Kenny B 10 Feb 19 - 06:35 PM
Hagman 10 Feb 19 - 10:05 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Feb 19 - 02:46 AM
r.padgett 11 Feb 19 - 03:09 AM
GUEST 11 Feb 19 - 05:31 AM
Johnny J 11 Feb 19 - 05:43 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Feb 19 - 06:12 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Feb 19 - 06:36 AM
John MacKenzie 11 Feb 19 - 12:08 PM
GUEST,Kenny B (inactive) 11 Feb 19 - 03:58 PM
GeoffLawes 11 Feb 19 - 07:09 PM
Big Al Whittle 12 Feb 19 - 04:38 AM
Big Al Whittle 12 Feb 19 - 05:04 AM
John MacKenzie 12 Feb 19 - 07:20 AM
GUEST,Observer 12 Feb 19 - 07:59 AM
Dave the Gnome 12 Feb 19 - 08:35 AM
Iains 12 Feb 19 - 08:56 AM
Jos 12 Feb 19 - 09:22 AM
Iains 12 Feb 19 - 09:53 AM
John MacKenzie 12 Feb 19 - 11:20 AM
Big Al Whittle 12 Feb 19 - 11:24 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 12 Feb 19 - 11:40 AM
GUEST,Kenny B 12 Feb 19 - 12:42 PM
Iains 12 Feb 19 - 12:45 PM
Jim Carroll 12 Feb 19 - 01:22 PM
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Subject: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 04:31 AM

Does anybody out there have an idea of how many folk music clubs existed in the UK at the height of the 60s folk music boom?


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 04:35 AM

42


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 05:08 AM

42? No, surely! There must have been at least 50!


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 05:21 AM

Heinz made it 57 I think
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 05:25 AM

"Folk Clubs Sir, thousands of them"


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 06:03 AM

Yes indeedy
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Sean O'Shea
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 06:37 AM

I wouldn't know.What I do know is that at the end of the sixties, you could go to a different club in Exeter every single night of the week.Spend a pound and you could buy entry, a packet of cigs and a good swallow for your pleasure.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Hagman
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 06:39 AM

"Once, back in the heady days of the sixties and seventies, folk clubs abounded all over the country. Now, while they have not disappeared altogether, they are thin on the ground. At the peak of the folk revival, there were hundreds of clubs in and around London, seventy-two on Merseyside, a club seven nights a week in most of the big cities. Every town and many a village had a folk club. In the universities and colleges they flourished. In Edinburgh there was even one in the police social club."

P. xiii, Introduction. J.P. Bean. Singing From The Floor: A History of British Folk Clubs. Faber & Faber : London, 2014.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 09:40 AM

In the late 60s and early 70s what I never came across was participatory events such as instrumental sessions or singarounds. Even our local singers club operated fairly formally as an open stage event. It may be that they were just absent in my area or, in pre internet days, you just had to know the right people. These days there still seems to be as much opportunity to participate but it is less inviting to the outsider as fewer events are designed for performing to an audience.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 09:54 AM

I agree entirely with what's been said here though it's worth remembering that not long after the startup of the revival the music industry latched on to the idea that there might be a few bob in it fpr them and some of these clubs were outcomes of that
For me, when the money boys lost interest the scene found its own level and began to call the shots for itself
For me, that led to the real Golden Age of folk song, with singers deciding for themselves what was worth singing
My first experience of live music was in The Cavern in Liverpool where you could hear some of the finest jazz in Britain

The same as I described on the folk scene happened to Jazz - a discovery, a brief period of comercialisation and a leveling out
By the time I got to London at the end of the sixties I could sit in 'New Merlin's Cave' in Mount Pleasant and listen to Bruce Turner and Humph in comfort until my hair stood on end with pleasure
Good days
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 11:01 AM

3,000?
Batman mentioned Singing From The Floor

Telegraph review of Singing From The Floor :
" ... There were around 3,000 clubs, though many were short-lived and run by those Dick Gaughan calls “fanatical amateurs”...."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/worldfolkandjazz/10653986/What-was-the-folk-music-scene-really-like-in-the-Sixties.html 
~~~~~~~
Singing From The Floor - J P Bean
thread
thread.cfm?threadid=153720 


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 11:12 AM

If 3000 clubs is about right, that means that there could have been around a quarter of millions visits to folk music clubs per week back then.
    Now, I bet, no other genre of music could boast those figures!


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 11:40 AM

Jim,

At what date do you put "the startup of the revival" and when do you believe the music industry latched on?

I am no defender of the music industry, far from it, but by enabling people to hear second and third rate copyists that became popular a good number of people turned to earlier roots or what we might call the real thing.

Like all things that become fashionable with the masses the size of the audience eventually gets back to something like it used to be before "the revival". Folk and jazz always were a minority sport.

The demise of "folk" and revivalist jazz is most probably because the people, singers/musicians and audience are coming or have come to the end of their days.

Fortunately there is an untold wealth of material available for future generations to enjoy.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 12:06 PM

"At what date do you put "the startup of the revival" and when do you believe the music industry latched on?"
I believe the earliest performances of folk were those arranged by Lomax at The Theatre Royal in Stratford East when he was on the run from McCarthy
The folk boom I'm not too sure about, but I know I had Kingston Trio and Clancy Brothers albums in the early sixties
The problem with the boom was they rather dominated the airwaves with erzatz folk (all the best stuff was on The Third Programme, which nobody listened to)
The other problem was newbies recognised the erzatz stuff as real folk and developed a taste for that rather than the Harry Cox's and Sam Larners
I can still remember the culture shock when somebody gave me a copy of MacColl's Folkways Vol 1 album of The Child Ballads = nearly ended us as a plant-pot stand
Luckily I had mates in Manchester where I could listen to Terry Whelan, Dave Hillary, terry Griffiths, Tom Gillfellon and Harry Boardman - that wasn't on offer to me in Liverpool then
There is a wealth of material for future generations to enjot - as long as somebody remembers where the key is
That's our job and there's no time like the present
I only hope I'm going to be around long enough to enjoy their enjoying it
It's giving me a greatt buzz here in Ireland - still coming down from last Sundays singing club in Dublin run by youngsters - magic!
Jim


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 12:20 PM

I believe the earliest performances of folk were those arranged by Lomax at The Theatre Royal in Stratford East when he was on the run from McCarthy

What would been the date of the first of these Stratford events?
Many people have written that the earliest manifestation of the folk revival in the UK were the original Edinburgh People's Festival in the summers of 1951–54. There was a wide range of people from trade unionists, enthusiasts, academics and local politicians acknowledge in the founding of these with the cultural contribution made by Hamish Henderson, Ewan MacColl, Joan Littlewood, Norman Buchan, Alan Lomax, Joe Corrie and Councillor Jack Kane being mentioned as the main movers.
Lomax had the good sense to record a number of the concerts.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 01:01 PM

"If 3000 clubs is about right, that means that there could have been around a quarter of millions visits to folk music clubs per week back then.
    Now, I bet, no other genre of music could boast those figures!"

3000 clubs, each with an average attendance of over 80 ?
Some people will believe anything.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 01:12 PM

How old are you? Lots of folk clubs back in the heyday had attendances of 100, and even then, they were turning people away.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 01:24 PM

"What would been the date of the first of these Stratford events?"
Around the same time as Edinburgh I think - Lomax was at both and probably helped inspire them - I really don't want to make this a pissing competition
Got the recordings of Edinburgh and Lomax's Scots stuff from the time is stunning
Jim


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 01:47 PM

"How old are you? Lots of folk clubs back in the heyday had attendances of 100, and even then, they were turning people away. "

Im the late 60s / early 70s went to clubs where, if you went to the bar, you had to wait for somebody else to want a drink before you could get back in. I also went to clubs (seldom more than once) with only a handful of people and most often to clubs that were comfortable busy. From venue sizes where I lived I would have put a typical audience in the 40 - 50 mark.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 01:50 PM

Well, by the late 60s, as far as I'm concerned, the boom was well and truly over.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 03:39 PM

"How old are you? Lots of folk clubs back in the heyday had attendances of 100, and even then, they were turning people away."
3000 of them ? Name them.
I'm over 60 - how old are you, and what's that got to do with anything ? ?


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Tunesmith
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 04:06 PM

Guest, timing is everything. When did you start going to folk music clubs, and how old were you?


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 04:36 PM

The late Barrie Roberts started his folk club in 1958 at the Fitters Arms Walsall. He said - the first week they were queuing round the block by six o'clock.

I can't remember any music industry people round the provincial clubs.   they'd have had a pretty thin time of it down The Jolly Porter in Exeter. Obviously they would have tried acts out in the London clubs.

I've yet to meet a booking agent who has actually ever been in a folk club. Not if you press them on the matter,,,,have you ever actually been inside a folk club yourself....?


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Hootennanny
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 06:06 PM

As a matter of fact Al I was a booking agent and ran a folk club and visited others along with jazz clubs. I still go to folk clubs on rare occasions.

Sadly the kind of jazz that interests me is almost non existent hardly anyone left to play it unfortunately which is one of the reasons I mentioned above regarding traditional British folk singers of the type beloved of Jim Carroll.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 06:30 PM

what sort of jazz is that. many of my friends are into jazz - perhaps i can help you. I don't know about Ireland, but there seems quite a lot of jazz around. And of course it a golden age for recorded jazz.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Kenny B
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 06:35 PM

Hootenanny if you are interested in New Orleans or trad
Tuba Skinny are worth a listen to


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Hagman
Date: 10 Feb 19 - 10:05 PM

"BATman"? Thanks, FreddyHeadey - I'll get my cape out.... :-)

An appendix in "Singing From The Floor" gives a little more help, but a definite list would seem to be very elusive, unless there is a particularly diligent PhD student up at Leeds or somewhere. Some of these may bring back some memories for you islanders:

"The Clubs.

During the period covered in Singing from the Floor an inestimable number of folk clubs has existed, some for only a short time, others for decades. It is unlikely that any comprehensive list of all known folk clubs could ever be compiled; the following is a selection of the clubs that were there in the earliest days of the revival, and the ones that have been referenced by the singers, musicians and others who appear in the book.

London

Black Horse, Rathbone Place Bill Leader and Gill Cook, who worked in Collett’s record shop, opened the Broadside Folk Club in the early sixties. It was here that Bert Jansch first sang ‘Needle of Death’, written as a tribute to his friend Buck Polly, who had recently died.

Bunjie’s A cellar folk club below a coffee house in Litchfield Street, Charing Cross, it opened in the mid-fifties and ran through the sixties.

Fox, Islington Green Began in 1964 with residents Bob Davenport and the Rakes. Davenport later ran clubs at the John Snow in Soho, where he gave Peter Bellamy his first floor spot, and the Empress of Russia, St John Street.

King and Queen, Foley Street The first club in Britain, where Bob Dylan sang from the floor in December 1962.

Half Moon, Putney This was more a music venue than a folk club. Gerry Lockran started folk blues sessions in 1963 and most of the leading British and American contemporary folk and blues acts played there, as well as rock bands like the Rolling Stones and the Who.

Herga Folk Club, Wealdstone Began in 1963, later moved to Pinner where it is still in existence. The Lakeman brothers’ parents were once residents and John Heydon was club organiser for twenty-three years. The first club to book Robin and Barry Dransfield as a duo.

Les Cousins, Greek Street Opened in 1965 below a Greek restaurant in the same premises that the Skiffle Cellar occupied from 1958 to ‘60. Les Cousins was the main venue in London for blues and contemporary folk music, with all-nighters on a Saturday.

Roundhouse, Wardour Street Cyril Davies opened a skiffle club in an upstairs room of the pub in 1955. Later became London Blues and Barrelhouse Club, run by Alexis Korner, who brought in visitors like Muddy Waters, Big Bill Broonzy and Champion Jack Dupree.

Singers’ Club Ewan MacColl had opened Ballads and Blues in 1957 at the Princess Louise, High Holborn, before starting the Singers’ Club with Peggy Seeger in 1961. The club’s first location was the Association of Cinematograph Television and Allied Technicians (ACTT) trade union building in Soho Square and later venues included the Princess Louise, Pindar of Wakefield, Merlin’s Cave and the Union Tavern. Known for its strict policy regarding traditional repertoire

Scots Hoose, Cambridge Circus A pub in Charing Cross Road, where Bruce Dunnett ran the folk club in an upstairs room, where the Young Tradition were formed and John Renbourn first met Bert Jansch.

Troubadour, Old Brompton Road, Earls Court A cellar room below a coffee house that opened in 1954. The leading folk venue in London until Les Cousins opened, and a stop-off for visiting American folk artists, including Bob Dylan. At different times, Ramblin’ Jack Elliott, Martin Carthy and Martin Winsor and Redd Sullivan were resident singers.

White Bear, Hounslow The folk club was opened in 1965 by the Strawberry Hill Boys, later the Strawbs, led by Dave Cousins. In 1969, with Cousins still involved, it became the Hounslow Arts Lab, where on one occasion David Bowie made an appearance.


Elsewhere

Birmingham, Jug of Punch The Ian Campbell Folk Group opened their first club at the Trees pub in Birmingham in 1959, later moving to Digbeth Civic Hall where the club became known as the Jug of Punch and regularly attracted audiences of up to four hundred.

Bradford Topic Opened in 1956 by schoolteacher Alex Eaton and still running; the Topic is the longest-running folk club in Britain.

Bristol Troubadour A contemporary and blues club, ran from 1966 to ‘71, with a musical policy similar to that of Les Cousins.

Cambridge St Lawrence Folk Song Society Founded in 1950 by students at the university, although too early to be recognised as a folk ‘club’.

Chelmsford Folk Club Where Nic Jones came to notice in the mid-sixties as a member of the Halliard, the resident group.

Cornwall, Folk Cottage An old barn in Mitchell, a hamlet near Newquay and the base for folk and blues in the mid-sixties. Pete Stanley and Wizz Jones were resident and Ralph McTell got his first break there.

Edinburgh University Folk Society Founded in 1958 by medical student Stuart MacGregor and folklorist Hamish Henderson. The following year, resident singers Dolina MacLennan and Robin Gray started a singing night at the Waverley Bar in Edinburgh, where many Scottish performers gained experience. In 1960 a London entrepreneur Roy Guest opened the Howff, a haunt of the teenage Bert Jansch.

Glasgow Folk Song Club Located in a café, the Corner House on Argyll Street, and organised by Norman Buchan and his wife Janey. Archie Fisher, Josh McRae and Hamish Imlach were among the early residents.

Harrogate Folk Club Began in the early sixties, the club where Robin and Barry Dransfield began performing, in a bluegrass group the Crimple Mountain Boys.

Hull, Folk Union One The Folksons, who soon became the Watersons, opened their own club in 1959 in a dance hall. They moved on to Ye Old Blue Bell where in 1965 they and the folk club were featured in the BBC television documentary Travelling for a Living.

Liverpool, Spinners Folk Club Opened in 1958 in the basement of a restaurant, Samson and Barlow’s. For years, until the demands of their concert and television work took over, the Spinners were the resident group and they made their first record at the club. Later moved to Gregson’s Well and the Trident.

Manchester Sports Guild (MSG) An old warehouse in Long Millgate, the MSG opened in 1961 with jazz downstairs and, later, folk upstairs. All the top performers played there and a singer’s night on Mondays gave many artists, including Christy Moore, their early opportunities.

Manchester, Wayfarers The first folk club in Britain was started in 1954 by Harry and Lesley Boardman as a ‘folk circle’ at the Wagon and Horses pub. Two years later this became the Wayfarers folk club at the Thatched House in Spring Gardens

Newcastle Folk Song and Ballad Club Originated with folk nights that Louis Killen and Johnny Handle organised in a jazz club, moving to the Bridge Hotel, where it ran for many years. It inspired other clubs in the Tyneside area, notably Birtley, opened in 1962 by the Elliott family, and Marsden, home of the Marsden Rattlers

Oxford University Heritage Society Founded in 1956, Louis Killen and, later, June Tabor gained valuable experience while students.

Sheffield, Barley Mow Run by Malcolm Fox from 1964 at the Three Cranes. Tony Capstick and Dave Burland were early floor singers and, in 1966, the first club that Martin Carthy and Dave Swarbrick played as a duo.

Sheffield, Highcliffe The Highcliffe folk and blues club that began in 1967 was an early form of today’s mini-concert venues. The Humblebums, Barbara Dickson and John Martyn played their first gigs in England there.

Solihull, Boggery Organised and compèred by Jasper Carrott at the Old Moseleians Rubgy Club, it opened in 1969 with a focus on entertainment.

Surbiton Assembly Rooms The biggest folk club in Britain, with two halls, one with 700 capacity. Derek Sarjeant and Gerry Lockran started the club in 1961; by the time it closed it had 23,000 members.

Wentworth, near Rotherham, ‘Folk at the Rock’ Opened in 1974 at the Rockingham Arms, moving to nearby Maltby in 2007. Soon after founder and organiser Rob Shaw retired in 2012, the club folded.

York, Black Swan The present club, in the upstairs room in one of the oldest pubs in York, has been running since the mid-seventies. It was the venue for Nancy Kerr and Eliza Carthy’s first gig together, in 1992."

(Not sure how Bean came up with his incredibly definitive "seventy-two on Merseyside" in his Introduction....)


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 02:46 AM

Personally, I found 'Singing From the Floor' mildly interesting but incredibly limited - and occasionally agenda driven
I'd be interested to know what the other contenders for the title of "Manchester, Wayfarers The first folk club in Britain" thought of the award being given to 'The Wayfarers' ((one of my early haunts)

"beloved of Jim Carroll."
Beloved by thousands when I entered the scene Hoot - Topic Records pioneered it and continue to stumble on with it despite the tsunamis of disinterest that continue to hit the scene
We had albums and even shops exclusively distributing the stuff and dozens of magazines animatedly discussing it and promoting it
I'm not sure whether your bringing me into is is a suggestion that my view is mine alone or an acknowledgement that folk music proper has been ethnically cleansed from the scene
I would hate to believe that me and all the hundreds of collections and works of my research are all that is left of folk song - if I did I'd be tempted to give outr collection to Oxfam and take up macramé
Jim


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: r.padgett
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 03:09 AM

Yes a definitive list remains illusive and will probably continue to be so ~ the legacy of this driven by collectors such as MacColl and Bert Lloyd, vinyl records and the early singer song writers, music hall, pubs, drop outs, post war ethos, entertainment and professionalism all contributed to the folk club boom ~ people wanted to entertain themselves and the "elders" wanted to provide a diversion where everyone could go and or participate

Unfortunately nowadays we are struggling to find even Youth clubs! Pubs continue to close and community spirit exists more in Food banks, god help us

Ray


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 05:31 AM

Hagman:

The book to which you refer isn't completely reliable.

It is true that Gill Cook ran a Monday night folk club at the Black Horse in Rathbone Place. But, the Ballads and Blues Association was already running a very successful Saturday evening club at that venue prior to Gill's Monday nights. Gill's club catered mainly to the more traditional audience but also included Jansch, Renbourne etc   The reason that the Black Horse ceased to be host to both was the sad early death of Danny the landlord.

The Singer's Club: I am not sure that their first venue was at the ACTT in Soho Square. I think there may be some confusion here. The Ballads and Blues Association had used this venue prior to the existence of the Singer's Club. I am sure that this came about because one of our part time team was a camera man for ITV and was the union rep there. If there are any people around who were at the first Singers Club nights the may be able to confirm their first venue. Was it the Bull & Mouth Tavern?

King & Queen, Foley Street; First club in Britain ??? Or do I misunderstand you?
Peta Webb and Ken Hall still run a very good club there.

The Fox, Islington Green I believe morphed into the Islington Folk Club at various venues which still operates in the Clerkenwell area.

Jim

The reason I mentioned your name is that you constantly bemoan the fact that the area of music which you define as folk is non existant in the English folk clubs. As I mentioned above it is possibly because the performers and their audience are sadly declining in number thanks to the grim reaper.

Why do you always think that a mention of your name is some form of attack?

And by the way I am well aware of the important role played by Topic. I once worked there. I would however question your "dozens of magazines".

Kenny B;

Thanks for the suggestion. I am aware of Tuba Skinny, perhaps you will let me know the next time they are to appear in a club in London.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Johnny J
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 05:43 AM

Even our old school in Inverness had its own folk club during the sixties in the cellar known as "The Katacomb"

As "first year", I wasn't allowed down there.

Here is one of the original members

https://youtu.be/BtYdo3gPvZE


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 06:12 AM

"which you define as folk"
I don't define it - that was done far before my time
Until someone comes up with a n alternative and gets a consensus for it, that's the one which will remain
The fact that no-one has done so is indicative that my fears on the health of the folk club scene are well-grounded
If the present incumbents are dying off that underlines my fears
"Why do you always think that a mention of your name is some form of attack? "
Why mention my name as if I am the only one to hold the views I do
I suggest that, rather than dying off, enthusiasts left the scene when they kept finding "Clubs with no folk" (I'm sure there's a song in there somewhere !
Want a list - Folk Music, Folk Review, Sing, Sing Out - Spin, Troubadour, Tradition, Musical Traditions, Ethnic, Folk Bulletin, London Folk, Garland (2 diferent ones), Folk and Country, The Lark.... and the dozens produced by individual clubs, such as Manchester, Bristol, Nottingham, several in London, Birmingham
I know Karl Dallas edited at least four
That's off the top of my head - I'll nip up in the loft and dig out the names of the rest if you wish
These ranged from club info sheets to monthly discussion and idea exchanging publications
Jim


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 06:36 AM

And by the way
"I am well aware of the important role played by Topic. I once worked there. "
Me too - I spent several weeks installing several light and power circuits in the then new Stroud Green Road premises - like letting a kid loose in a sweet-shop
Jim


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 12:08 PM

There were so many, and they were so desperate, that even I got bookings ;)


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 03:58 PM

Hagman re Tuba Skinny 2019
POSTED BY ERIKA LEWIS ON TUBA SKINNY’S FACEBOOK PAGE:
“So, we’ve been scrambling to come up with a tour in the UK this summer, but unfortunately, do not have the funds necessary to make it there and back. We are hoping that next summer will provide the opportunities to make it happen. Thanks to all who have encouraged us to come over, hopefully we will see you next year!”
Yes, Erika, let’s hope for next year. The UK JAZZ COMMUNITY truly want Tuba Skinny to tour the UK and would be only too willing to help make it happen.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 11 Feb 19 - 07:09 PM

Hagman above said
Hull, Folk Union One The Folksons, who soon became the Watersons, opened their own club in 1959 in a dance hall. They moved on to Ye Old Blue Bell where in 1965 they and the folk club were featured in the BBC television documentary Travelling for a Living.
The BFI allows you to watch the whole 45 minutes of Travelling for a Living here
https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-travelling-for-a-living-1966-online
I think the commentary refers to 2 or 3 hundred folk clubs but that seems a bit low.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 04:38 AM

I suppose the question we ought to be asking ourselves is, why aren't we all driving Austin Cambridges and Singer Gazelles?

In those days, there were these things called factories making these wondrous vehicles. Somehow, you can't help feeling that something important has been lost.....


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 05:04 AM

Another thing, in those days, seeing a playable guitar was a wondrous experience. you wanted to hear what it sounded like, what its proud owner could actually do? Roomfuls of people would assemble to catch a glimpse of a guitar.

Its like cars. Nowadays - every bugger has got a car where you stick the key in and it goes - this was not always the case.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 07:20 AM


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 07:59 AM

Cannot remember ever having gone to a folk club either to listen to a guitar or catch a glimpse of one - now who was singing and what they were singing was what in the main drew people in.

Those days unfortunately have gone, the accompaniment is now more important than the "song" which is more often than not bland, vapid nonsense.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 08:35 AM

Yes, Teribus. The summers were warmer, the snows deeper and the wagon wheels were bigger too!


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 08:56 AM

In the 60's Folk music had far greater exposure on both Radio and TV.
The Dubliners appeared on top of the pops,as did many other "Folk Artists". Julie Felix had a regular spot on the Frost report. Even in the 70's the spinners had a bbc show that ran for 7 years. Although the mediums of exposure were far more limited than today I would argue that the material on offer was far more varied for what could be classed "popular" music.i.e. given repeatable airtime on Radio London, Radio Caroline and the BBC. The demand for folk/contemporary folk was there, otherwise the material would not be on offer. Today if anyone wants to have entertainment of a particular genre,it is available in abundance. Does this saturation dampen the desire to explore? Is folk music now pigeonholed to oblivion, hiding in dark recesses where it can no longer be easily found. Or perhaps society has changed. The enforcement of breathalyser limits, the closure of many pubs, the increased cost of beer, all have played a part. Since 2000, the number of pubs in the UK has fallen by 17%, or 10,500 pubs, according to the British Beer & Pub Association. Even the renowned Surbiton Assembly Rooms is now, sadly, a part of Surbiton High School for Girls.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jos
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 09:22 AM

I'm surprised that the number of pubs has fallen by only 17% since 2000. I thought it was much more. There used to be five pubs within easy walking distance (about a mile) of my house - now there are two.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 09:53 AM

Jos It depends upon whose figures are accurate. Another set of numbers:
https://www.iea.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/files/Briefing_Closing%20time_web.pdf


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 11:20 AM

Not forgetting Cy Grant on Tonight, and Lance Percival on TW3 (Or was it Frost?) Rory and Alec McEwan were almost ubiquitous, and there were sightings of Robin Hall and Jimmy MacGregor Later on the wonderful Grant Baynham performed on Rantzen, and I think Jake Thackray too. They were everywhere, Al Stewart, Don Partridge etc etc etc etc.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 11:24 AM

Yes indeed The Spinners singing The Bleacher Lass of Kelnhaugh on Pebble Mull at one......taking fplk song to the people.

But did the traddies respect them......


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 11:40 AM

Yes John the list goes on but I don't think the above people would be accepted under the 1954? bullshit rules set up by the self appointed self important Folk Music Police.

Too much like entertainment, not serious enough.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Kenny B
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 12:42 PM

Hootenany, Al, John McMenzie * Iains very valid points

and are the F.M.P a bunch of masochists? who cling to the past but use all the modern devices to preach to the folks who have moved on
Just wondered?


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 12:45 PM

It is interesting that Luke Kelly recorded shoals of herring in 1957, and the Clancy brothers and Tommy Makem released a version. This was first released in 1962 by the author Ewan MacColl. The Dubliners recorded many Ewan MacColl songs, as did many other Folkies. Are Gordon Lightfoot and Ralph McTell not folksingers? Should the likes of the Dubliners and Dublin City Ramblers be dammed for performing contemporary material? and where would that leave the likes of Christy Moore, and dare I even mention Daniel O'Donnell or Foster and Allan?
All of the above have helped play a part in popularizing folk music over decades. It was their airtime that probably first encouraged more than a few members here to get interested/involved.

Does anyone take a blind bit of notice of the folk 'police' definition of what may or may not be folk. The limited sample of folk clubs and sessions that I have attended have made no distinction between old and new, other than to recognise the age difference. Does entertainment need to be subjected to the third degree in order to be enjoyed? Some may be interested in the origins, but what grants them a right to inflict their views on others. Most times research can give a series of possible solutions.
There is no guarantee that any of them are correct.


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Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Feb 19 - 01:22 PM

" I don't think the above people would be accepted under the 1954? "
I often wonder why it is those who oppse any form of definition are the only ones ever to mention '54 as a rule book - it isn't abd it is a red herring to suggest it is
Jim Carroll


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