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Terms of Subservient Characters

JMB 22 Jan 19 - 10:58 PM
GUEST 23 Jan 19 - 04:46 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Jan 19 - 04:52 AM
Jack Campin 23 Jan 19 - 05:29 AM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 23 Jan 19 - 05:59 AM
GUEST 23 Jan 19 - 08:32 AM
Dave Hanson 23 Jan 19 - 08:34 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Jan 19 - 09:06 AM
Rapparee 23 Jan 19 - 12:56 PM
Senoufou 23 Jan 19 - 02:27 PM
meself 23 Jan 19 - 03:45 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jan 19 - 06:29 AM
leeneia 24 Jan 19 - 11:21 AM
Rapparee 24 Jan 19 - 06:09 PM
BobL 25 Jan 19 - 04:01 AM
gillymor 25 Jan 19 - 04:47 AM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Jan 19 - 06:43 AM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Jan 19 - 08:13 AM
Mr Red 27 Jan 19 - 06:04 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Jan 19 - 10:53 AM
Bonzo3legs 27 Jan 19 - 11:18 AM
robomatic 27 Jan 19 - 01:55 PM
Mr Red 28 Jan 19 - 04:37 AM
Steve Shaw 28 Jan 19 - 04:47 AM
Senoufou 28 Jan 19 - 05:37 AM
Mr Red 29 Jan 19 - 05:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: JMB
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 10:58 PM

I was thinking lately about terms used for people who are considered to be obedient and servile or subservient if you will to those they serve. Particularly to those who are of a different background in any way shape or form. (ie. Uncle Tom from the novel of a black man who is excessively subservient and respectful to white people despite the lack of respect in return.
I was doing some research to find more terms in different scenarios. I remembered the above example from hearing it years ago. I am looking to find terms based on historical or literary figures who were subservient. It could be between races, language of origin, country of origin, etc.
I've been inspired lately by the fact that I am a Gael of origin and I am surrounded by English people who are hostile towards me, yet they expect me to be subservient at all times. I've haven't ever heard of a term like this applying to a Gael, nor could I find a character through searching to fit.
Which of course would be hard to find in history I've been thinking of this so there could be a new monicre to which I am known by. Not expecting it to be a common term, I don't like to see particularly any offensive terms against certain backgrounds, but I'm surprised that no one has come up with one to refer to me as. So, I'm seeking help so I could do it for them.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 04:46 AM

I don’t know if this is the sort of thing you had in mind. It’s a song written and performed by Joe Black. The video/sound quality is a bit poor so here’s a cover by Grace Petrie.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 04:52 AM

I've been inspired lately by the fact that I am a Gael of origin and I am surrounded by English people who are hostile towards me, yet they expect me to be subservient at all times.

Huh? I'm English and I am not hostile to any 'Gael' and do not know anyone who is. On what do you base this sweeping generalisation?

I've haven't ever heard of a term like this applying to a Gael, nor could I find a character through searching to fit.

Maybe that is because there isn't one because your initial premise about English people is wrong.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 05:29 AM

How does "paranoic grudge-ridden whiner" sound?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 05:59 AM

Troll-la-la-la ...

Regards


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 08:32 AM

jack
it describes the English I have come in contact with to a T.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 08:34 AM

Tory MPs, lickspittles.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 09:06 AM

I suspect that this is just a platform for race hate that unnamed guests who cannot post below the line can use. Whether that was the intention, I do not know but that is what it is turning into. As such I suggest it should be dropped into the litter box.


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 12:56 PM

Re-read "Uncle Tom's Cabin" (if you haven't read it, do so) and you will find, in the words of Wikipedia, that "Legree begins to hate Tom when Tom refuses Legree's order to whip his fellow slave. Legree beats Tom viciously and resolves to crush his new slave's faith in God. Despite Legree's cruelty, however, Tom refuses to stop reading his Bible and comforting the other slaves as best he can." Tom, rather than being a "step-and-fetch it" type, refuses to give in and is eventually killed for it. He also counsels other slaves to escape.


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 02:27 PM

Well I'm a Gael (mother Irish and father of Scots origin) married to an African, and I've never ever been on the receiving end of any racist epithets. Neither had my late parents and neither has my husband.
Perhaps we've all been incredibly lucky.


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: meself
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 03:45 PM

So ... you're looking for a new derogatory term to apply to yourself? I'm sure you have enough imagination to create one on your own, don't you?


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 06:29 AM

For soft Tories subservient to their right-wing: Camoronic cap-wringers. Easily identified by their habit of calling disastrous elections and referendums.


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: leeneia
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 11:21 AM

I haven't read the book, but I have read that the slave Uncle Tom was not an uncle tom.

It's important to distinguish between things said in real life and things said in books. Dialogue in books can be completely artificial.


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 06:09 PM

The term "Uncle Tom" came from a misunderstanding of the book.

Cassy and Emeline, two young slaves, ran away and are in hiding in the "big house." Legree knows that Tom knows where they are, and because Tom isn't subservient and is a Christian, doesn't care for him one bit. He's about to flog Tom to death.

The book is excellent example of a type of 19th Century literature that we would consider overblown in many, many ways.)

“Well, Tom!” said Legree, walking up, and seizing him grimly by the collar of his coat, and speaking through his teeth, in a paroxysm of determined rage, “do you know I’ve made up my mind to KILL YOU?”

“It’s very likely, Mas’r,” said Tom, calmly.

“I have,” said Legree, with a grim, terrible calmness, “done—just—that—thing, Tom, unless you’ll tell me what you know about these yer gals!”

Tom stood silent.

“D’ye hear?” said Legree, stamping, with a roar like that of an incensed lion. “Speak!”

“I han’t got nothing to tell, Mas’r,” said Tom, with a slow, firm, deliberate utterance.

“Do you dare to tell me, ye old black Christian, ye don’t know?” said Legree.

Tom was silent.

“Speak!” thundered Legree, striking him furiously. “Do you know anything?”

“I know, Mas’r; but I can’t tell anything. I can die!”

Legree drew in a long breath; and, suppressing his rage, took Tom by the arm, and, approaching his face almost to his, said, in a terrible voice, “Hark ’e, Tom!—ye think, ’cause I’ve let you off before, I don’t mean what I say; but, this time, I’ve made up my mind, and counted the cost. You’ve always stood it out again’ me: now, I’ll conquer ye, or kill ye!—one or t’ other. I’ll count every drop of blood there is in you, and take ’em, one by one, till ye give up!”

Tom looked up to his master, and answered, “Mas’r, if you was sick, or in trouble, or dying, and I could save ye, I’d give ye my heart’s blood; and, if taking every drop of blood in this poor old body would save your precious soul, I’d give ’em freely, as the Lord gave his for me. O, Mas’r! don’t bring this great sin on your soul! It will hurt you more than ’t will me! Do the worst you can, my troubles’ll be over soon; but, if ye don’t repent, yours won’t never end!”

Like a strange snatch of heavenly music, heard in the lull of a tempest, this burst of feeling made a moment’s blank pause. Legree stood aghast, and looked at Tom; and there was such a silence, that the tick of the old clock could be heard, measuring, with silent touch, the last moments of mercy and probation to that hardened heart.

It was but a moment. There was one hesitating pause,—one irresolute, relenting thrill,—and the spirit of evil came back, with seven-fold vehemence; and Legree, foaming with rage, smote his victim to the ground.


--Uncle Tom's Cabin, chapter XL.


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: BobL
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 04:01 AM

I am a Gael of origin and I am surrounded by English people who are hostile towards me
JMB, do you live in Northern Ireland by any chance?


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: gillymor
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 04:47 AM

Bogtrottin' lackey or obsequious paddy might work for you.


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 06:43 AM

"West Briton" was a term used in Ireland at one time for those seen as identifying with English rule.

In England the same names often tend to get used by people who are hostile or friendly towards foreigners - whether someone uses a term like Paddy, or Mick, or Jock doesn't in itself indicate how the user regards people.


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 08:13 AM

I was glad to see some voices raised against the distortion involved in the use of the term "Uncle Tom".


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 06:04 AM

boot-licker is a shoe-in.

(just thought I would shoehorn that in - and quit while I'm ahead)


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 10:53 AM

I think he or she is in Nova Scotia, BobL.


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 11:18 AM

For decent Labour members of parliament subservient to Corbyn lunatic trotskyites - I'm working on it!!!


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 01:55 PM

I can't think of a more pridey counterpoint to the poor surrounded 'Gael' than this peerless song by The Arrogant Worms


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 04:37 AM

toady
cow-tower
yes-man


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 04:47 AM

camp-follower
lackey
arse-licker
boss's man
he who runs with the fox and hunts with the hounds


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 05:37 AM

Having visited prisoners for a number of years, I learned quite a bit about prison terminology.
There were some unfortunate inmates who were mercilessly bullied, made to conceal drugs in their cells (or bodies) for the dominant 'drug barons' and generally used. They were called patsies. Not sure if this had Irish origins. And travellers in prison, despised as 'dirty', were called Pikeys.
Horrible.


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Subject: RE: Terms of Subservient Characters
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 05:13 AM

I can't imagine travellers as subservient.
And didn't Lee Harvey Oswald claim to be a patsie? Which I took to mean the fall guy.


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Mudcat time: 17 July 1:30 PM EDT

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