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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Iains 14 Sep 19 - 03:02 PM
Jim Carroll 14 Sep 19 - 03:00 PM
DMcG 14 Sep 19 - 02:26 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Sep 19 - 02:18 PM
Dave the Gnome 14 Sep 19 - 12:36 PM
Jim Carroll 14 Sep 19 - 08:18 AM
DMcG 14 Sep 19 - 06:38 AM
Iains 14 Sep 19 - 06:33 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Sep 19 - 06:26 AM
DMcG 14 Sep 19 - 06:13 AM
Raggytash 12 Sep 19 - 04:55 PM
Backwoodsman 12 Sep 19 - 04:42 PM
Raggytash 12 Sep 19 - 04:38 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Sep 19 - 03:54 PM
Raggytash 12 Sep 19 - 03:41 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 12 Sep 19 - 02:54 PM
Jim Carroll 12 Sep 19 - 02:35 PM
peteaberdeen 12 Sep 19 - 02:35 PM
Backwoodsman 12 Sep 19 - 02:11 PM
Dave the Gnome 12 Sep 19 - 01:50 PM
Jim Carroll 12 Sep 19 - 11:32 AM
Raggytash 12 Sep 19 - 11:18 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Sep 19 - 09:30 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Sep 19 - 08:16 AM
DMcG 12 Sep 19 - 07:11 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Sep 19 - 07:04 AM
SPB-Cooperator 12 Sep 19 - 06:20 AM
SPB-Cooperator 12 Sep 19 - 06:09 AM
Iains 12 Sep 19 - 05:42 AM
Iains 12 Sep 19 - 05:08 AM
Iains 12 Sep 19 - 04:51 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Sep 19 - 07:45 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Sep 19 - 05:45 PM
DMcG 11 Sep 19 - 05:22 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Sep 19 - 04:33 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Sep 19 - 02:49 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Sep 19 - 01:41 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Sep 19 - 01:26 PM
DMcG 11 Sep 19 - 01:02 PM
Iains 11 Sep 19 - 12:40 PM
Raggytash 11 Sep 19 - 12:07 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Sep 19 - 11:21 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Sep 19 - 11:12 AM
DMcG 11 Sep 19 - 10:44 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Sep 19 - 09:42 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Sep 19 - 09:29 AM
Iains 11 Sep 19 - 09:01 AM
Rain Dog 11 Sep 19 - 08:44 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Sep 19 - 08:22 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Sep 19 - 08:06 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 03:02 PM

European Human Rights Legislation
Protocol 1, Article 3 requires the government to support your right to free expression

Protocol 1, Article 3 of the Human Rights Act requires the government to support your right to free expression by holding free elections at reasonable intervals. These elections must enable you to vote in secret.
Are there restrictions to this right?

The right to free elections is absolute. This means it must never be restricted in any way. (fixed term is a restriction)

However, the government can put some limits on the way elections are held. It can also decide what kind of electoral system to have – such as ‘first past the post’, as in UK general elections, or proportional representation.

It seems to me that commie corbyn is clearly frustrating this protocol in clear defiance of the elected government and the majority of the electorate.
It must be time to drag his sorry arse off to court for wholesale abuse of our human rights, along with all who voted with him on both occasions!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 03:00 PM

I's say things like that in WHISPERED TONES if I were you Mac
He seems to have his hands full at present but it's early days yet
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 02:26 PM

I wouldn't like to generalise from.a single instance, but one UKIP member I know well is definitely in favour of capital punishment.

Meanwhile the conference season is upon us. Jo is playing a tricky hand, I think, and may overreach herself in going for the Revoke option. They are very unlikely to form a government in their own right and splitting themselves off from the other remain supporters is a risk. On the other hand I can see why she wants the LibDems to have a clear and distinct stance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 02:18 PM

If the government cared about the will of the people we'd definitely be stringing dozens a year up and probably birching hundreds of others. We'd be "sending 'em back to where they came from" (even if it was West Bromwich). Actually, it could be that 52% think that right now...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 12:36 PM

Just read a post from my very wise daughter.

If the government really cared about 'the will of the people', fracking would have been banned years ago. The interests of big business seem more important to the people who are supposed to be in charge of protecting this country.

Selective democracy seems to be the order of the day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 08:18 AM

"Nicky Morgan's confused statement that she would vote remain in another referendum."
Confused is right - I had to replay the item three times before I could (vaguely) understand it
Another crack in Johnson's Junta, as far as I can see
Not only have all the half-decent Tories pissed off - now the worst ones are beginning to
Hopefully that isn't opening the door for scumbuckets like Farage and Robinson
Watch this space
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 06:38 AM


Worth reading John Major's 'confessions' in this morning's paper


Not to mention Nicky Morgan's confused statement that she would vote remain in another referendum.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 06:33 AM

You know, the one that Brexiteers use to say every Labour MP was voted in under a manifesto saying they would leave? stay leave stay leave stay leave stay????

You know the one that changes from leave to remain depending on whether it is magic grandpa or watson talking, or is it dependent on the state of the tides or phases of the moon?

The Financial Times has a wonderful summary of Labour's in out hokey cokey shambles

https://www.ft.com/content/24550040-d57b-11e9-8367-807ebd53ab77

Must be time for a carry on Compo film!

By the way, ehat is the position of Labour on Brexit today?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 06:26 AM

Worth reading John Major's 'confessions' in this morning's papers
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 06:13 AM

I have just had occasions to revisit Labour's 2017 manifesto. You know, the one that Brexiteers use to say every Labour MP was voted in under a manifesto saying they would leave?

Not surprisingly, that turns out to be a grave distortion. Here is an important paragraph, with my underlining:

Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade. We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option and if needs be negotiate transitional arrangements to avoid a cliff-edge’ for the economy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 04:55 PM

Thanks Backwoodsman


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 04:42 PM

Here ya go Raggy...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 04:38 PM

These are strange times indeed. I have found myself being very impressed by John Majors passionate opposition to Brexit and today I have been impressed by Michael Hestletines clinical denunication of Johnsons claim to be a "one nation tory"

Could someone please link to the Guardian article, written by Hestletine "Boris Johnson has no right to call himself a one nation conservatve"


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 03:54 PM

Blair Peach was my friend. My sister saw Jo Cox grow up from a little girl and is a friend of Jo's mother. One a victim of naked police brutality when he was protesting about racism, murdered in fact by a policeman, the other murdered by a white supremacist. I feel these things sharply as you can imagine, but I was what I am now well before both those events. All forms of racism stink, and it makes me bloody sick to think that millions of people were hoodwinked into thinking racist thoughts during that rotten referendum campaign.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 03:41 PM

Heh heh!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 02:54 PM

Dame Caroline Spelman is on record as saying she has been driven out of politics altogether due to abuse and death threats.

Regarding the blanked-out Item 15, Rosamund Urwin, senior reporter at the Sunday Times, tweeted the redacted content yesterday, which she got from her original leaked copy, received in August. It's in her Twitter feed:

- - -

@RosamundUrwin

So lots of people asking what the redacted part is... Here goes:

What's different about the new Yellowhammer document that the government has just published compared with the one I got hold of last month? The heading.
What did the version I had say? BASE SCENARIO
Now what does the new one say? HMG Reasonable Worst Case Planning Assumptions

15. "Facing EU tariffs makes petrol exports to the EU uncompetitive. Industry had plans to mitigate the impact on refinery margins and profitability but UK Government policy to set petrol import tariffs at 0% inadvertently undermines these plans." [More to come]

"This leads to significant financial losses and announcement of two refinery closures (and transition to import terminals) and direct job losses (about 2000). (2/3)

Resulting strike action at refineries would lead to disruptions to fuel availability for 1-2 weeks in the regions directly supplied by the refineries." (3/3)

https://twitter.com/RosamundUrwin/status/1171872961944571905


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 02:35 PM

I am determined that it should never be forgotten that Jo Cox was the first victim of Brexit
I feel the same about the memory of Blair Peach for a different reason, but racism played a part in both
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 02:35 PM

i'm struggling at work just now . i am a remainer with 2 children working on the mainland. i would stand up against racism anyway but with our children's (we have 5) friends and partners being from all over i feel i must stand up and could have a daily argument with the racists and ukip 'tommy robinson types. of course, i have become used to it around town and in the pubs and have to suffer people assuming their racism and brexit nonsense is 'how it is round here' but it is horrible to be called a traitor or 'hear 'you are going to end up in hospital saying stuff like that' when i questioned the ethics of a shop near us selling nazi memorabilia i was told 'i'll fucking kill you if i see you anywhere near my shop again' So , for me, it's a daily problem and not just a controversy in the press. i was going to stand for council but decided not to as i'm scared to be more visible here - especially as 10 ex bnp/edl types have recently been elected to our local council. our house is for sale - we want to move to scotland or lancaster. it's tragic what has happened to england - we are decent people are regularly bshouted down by the bigotry and aggression of the tories and their far right followers. in what sort of world would the likes of nigel farage or mogg or johnson have any sort of influence in a modern democracy? anyone else remember the opening ceremony of the london olympics?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 02:11 PM

Well I, for one, am not surprised in the slightest. However much the passive/aggressive victim-wannabes on the Leave side whine about ‘insults’ and ‘abuse’, Leavers resort just as frequently to that kind of behaviour, and my experience is that making death-threats is very much their domain. Never heard of a Remainer telling a Leaver they ‘should be arrested, marched out, and shot at dawn for treason’, but I’ve seen plenty of instances of Leavers telling Remainers precisely that.

Glasshouses, stones.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 01:50 PM

While some on Mudcat continue to bleat about hard done by the valiant brexiteers are, the death threats to their opponents continue.

They say you can tell a man by the company he keeps. When was the last time there was a death threat made by the remain factions?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 11:32 AM

SEEING IS BELIEVING
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 11:18 AM

Apparently Defra has refused to disclose details of potential disruption to food supplies saying there was a "strong public interest" in keeping the information secret.

What!!!!

Could someone please link to the article in the Guardian.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 09:30 AM

EU: Backstop stays. End of.

Johnson: No backstop. End of.

EU: Northern Ireland-only backstop will be OK with us.

Johnson: Over my dead body.

Johnson: I'm full of good ideas about a deal.

EU: not a dickie bird from Johnson about his good ideas have we heard.

Johnson: we're leaving at Halloween, even with no deal.

Rest of the world: Oh yeah? How's that work then, Bozza?


Every morning I wake up thinking, nah, it's not real. But every time I find out that it's real all right. Are we actually paying this man wages?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 08:16 AM

I was under tehe impression that Yellowhammer had not been edited - what has not ben released is the correspondence and records of the discussion regarding redaction
May have this wrong - it's pretty difficult to keep up with this farce
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 07:11 AM

The best way of guessing what the redacted section about - short of getting the original - is to compare it to the leaked version. However, I have been unable to find a copy of that; just articles derived from it that do not preserve that level of detail. Of course most searches now show the latest version. If anyone has access to the full leaked version, or a link to it, I would be grateful.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 07:04 AM

"about minimising the number of people impacted. "
Which is an admission of the contents of this document which was claimed to be "out of date"
This is now serial lying to the people

"What was the redacted section 15 about?"
It is claimed to be about the details of why these pricks closed down Parliament
Again, doing so was claimed to be standard practice and nothing out of the ordinary - obviously a can of worms they don't wish to open
They'll probably send it to Croydon, where it will be "disappeared" as were the 'Windrush' documents
These people are OUTBLAIRING TORY BLUR
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 06:20 AM

it is disturbing that the Yellowhammer report talks about minimising the number of people impacted. So, who has decided that they have to god=given right to determine which of us will be impacted?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 06:09 AM

What was the redacted section 15 about?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 05:42 AM

A stunning article in the Express today:
Diplomats and officials are “tearing their hair out” at the prospect Jeremy Corbyn winning the keys to Downing Street amid political chaos in London. They simply can’t understand why Labour have pledged to negotiate a “credible” Brexit deal with Brussels before campaigning against it in a referendum. Brussels sources also revealed they regret forming tactical alliances with Remain campaigners during the Brexit negotiations.


“They want us to negotiate a ‘credible’ deal and then they will campaign against it in a referendum? That is mad,” an EU source told the Times.

“How can we negotiate with people like that? Their divisions and magical thinking are as bad as anything the Conservatives produced – perhaps worse.”

Luvvin it !!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 05:08 AM

It is axiomatic that Democracy can only function when the Executive, Legislative and Judiciary remain entirely independent of one another.

Very clearly these lines have been blurred in recent weeks by unscrupulous MPs usurping the role of the executive and involving the Judiciary in decisions that rightly are the remit of the executive.
A partisan speaker has colluded with the executive opposition to enable these outrages to occur.
    Remainiacs may find it very amusing to be scoring all these supposed goals but the law of unintended consequences may well create innumerable own goals in the future besides creating havoc within our unwritten constitution.
    Erskine May was written for a time when MPs had honour and integrity. The need for a written Constitution becomes more compelling by the day.

This is not a new problem. Oliver Cromwell had it in a nutshell:
It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice.Ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government.Ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have no more religion than my horse. Gold is your God. Which of you have not bartered your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth? Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defiled this sacred place, and turned the Lord's temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices?

Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation. You were deputed here by the people to get grievances redressed, are yourselves become the greatest grievance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 04:51 AM

The outcome of the Supreme court judgement will revolve entirely around what fresh material may be uncovered by the enforced release of material by the Parliamentary request. I doubt any private communications will be released as this would be in breach of EU law on data protection.
The Independent sets it out thus:
Only a summary of the Scottish Court’s reasoning has been released, with the full judgment to follow on Friday. Meanwhile the High Court in London has today released its reasons for rejecting Gina Miller and John Major’s legal challenge to prorogation. Its judgment is a powerful restatement of the orthodox legal view, and firmly and rightly rejects the constitutionally dubious argument that parliamentary sovereignty permits or requires the courts ‘to exercise hitherto unidentified power over the Executive branch of the state in its dealings with Parliament.’ The circumstances and reasons for proroguing Parliament are for the Government to decide.

The Government is bound by law in Scotland and Northern Ireland, just as much as in England and Wales, which is partly why litigation was commenced in all three places. It will now be for the Supreme Court, which hears an appeal on Tuesday, to decide whether the advice to prorogue Parliament is for the courts to decide and, if it is, whether Tuesday’s prorogation was unlawful.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 07:45 PM

"Shocking dishonesty."
And far more likely to happen than was claimed was the case
Delays at ports - weeks long, shortage of medical goods immediate, food shotages, wage cuts, public disorder....
They have been caught deliberately lying to the electorate they claim to be working on behalf of
Despte this, they still refuse to release the full documents they have been ordered to make public
If it looks like a coup. if it goosesteps like a coup - it's probably a coup to overthrow Parliamentary democracy
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 05:45 PM

Not only that, the release of the Yellowhammer papers reveals not only the panic in government circles about no deal but also the lying nature of this administration. They told us that the previous leak, which had a policeman marching an innocent adviser out of Downing Street, was out of date. It wasn't. What came out tonight is virtually the same. Shocking dishonesty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 05:22 PM

I will wait for the ruling. The documents the Scottish courts had were not available before. Nor anything that may be revealed by the humble address.

You could easily be right, Steve, but it may not be clear cut.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 04:33 PM

The Supreme Court will not endorse today's ruling. Listen to Jonathan Sumption, the ex-Supreme Court judge. He hates what Johnson has done but can't see illegality, unfortunately. I've always found his opinions to be incredibly measured. I'll be amazed if I'm wrong. It'll be around two weeks before we hear the Supreme Court's decision. The only thing that really matters now about the prorogation is that we use it to demonstrate Johnson's utter dishonesty and sense of Etonian entitlement. It will work to his disadvantage in any case. Already has, actually.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 02:49 PM

Just musing (probably an "am in front of thet more descriptive) this latest farce of events
If someone points out that Northern Ireland and Scotland chose to remain in the EU, these clowns line up to point out the both are part of the UK and subject to a wafer-thin majority (by those who voted) decision, whether its suits the Irish and the scots or doesn't
When it comes to the law governing how our democracy operates, "English Law Eules Rules, OK)
No wonder the world is pissing itself laughing at these antics
Jim carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 01:41 PM

If the appeal next week is successful every prediction of the destructive nature of Brexit will have been confirmed
It will set England and Scotland in direct legal conflict with each other and will mean there is no basis for maintaining the UK - certainly if England is given a free hand to make laws that are in opposition to those in Scotlad
Full house for remaining in Europe, I think
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 01:26 PM

Y'knoww folks - could have sworn Brexit was about the UK - not Britain leaving Europe
You learn something every day, don't you
More Brhysterincal knee -jerk I suspect
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 01:02 PM

Whatever else this Scottish legal opinion does, it has greatly strengthened those who argue for Scottish Independence. Even more so if the Supreme court reverses the decision.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 12:40 PM

Scottish law may run writ in Scotland. English Law runs writ in England.
The scottish judges decision is merely grandstanding and had no meaning.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 12:07 PM

It is rather strange that the party who pride themselves on being "the party of law and order" are so keen to circumvent the law when they don't like it.

Although I realise it is not a done deal yet I was very happy with this mornings ruling.

Whatever happens now this will certainly damage any relationship between Johnson and the Queen, if they actually had one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 11:21 AM

Didn't finish
What I just posted is confirmed by Gove's describing Laws passed by Parliament as "a pig in a poke" to be adhered to only when it suits the Government
That is an extremely dangerous attitude for any Government to be allowed to adopt
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 11:12 AM

"No one should regard this as settled."
I go along with this completely Mac, but what I think it shows quite clearly is that the proroguing of parliament has tried democracy and legality to the extreme limits limits
THis has been the case with this ***** referendum from day one
Even though the case failed to come to court, Farage's poster, which was the main influence in winning a vote even he didn't expect to win, skated the edges of Britain's incitement to race hatred laws
Like everything Populism touches, British democracy has now been tainted and made questionable
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 10:44 AM

BBC news: Why the Scottiah Court ruling is so significant

There are some Brexiteers who greeted the orignal case with acclaim when they won, and who now say this ruling is unimportant. Not the least of these is Dominic Raab, who as a lawyer should well understand this is a long process with appeal upon appeal, as I said in a post of a few days ago: it is a long game. (Apologies for not referencing the post, but my ability to look this up is hampered by a very limited Internet connection at the moment.)

No one should regard this as settled.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 09:42 AM

"Ah I see. As we are in easier reach to London than other areas we don't have any deprivation then?"
Please don't distort what I say - I did not say that, nor do I believe it
Working people everywhere will be hit by the Brexit steamroller , those within the reach of London, where you can usually find half-decent work, even if it's in the 'Black Economy' will be less so that the rest of Britain
" Are they racists too?"
Unfortunately, some of them are
We all grew up in a post Empire Britain where foreigners were to be pitied and exploited becaiuse they were inferior' - we even sang hymns saying just that
I spent enough time with people from abroad - first on the docks in Liverpool, then with refugees and Holocaust survivors in Manchester and finally in gloriously multicultural London - all of which allowed me to form my opinions of hands-on experience
The north of England is just as prone to being used by being told that foreigners were likely to take our jobs, houses and women, wby those who it suits to spread that noxious message

" Are they racists too?"
A drop in the ocean comared to what is being lost br firms pissing off to avoid the damaging effects Brexit
100 obs - there are probably as many firms that have been forced to close already or are thinking of closing because of the uncertain future that has been created
Just wait till when Brits start pouring in from Europe because they can no longer work there
It was estimated that somewhere around 11,000 Brits are claiming dole in Europe   
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 09:29 AM

I hate to say this, but I'm finding myself agreeing with Tom Watson on strategy. But I really wish he would cut out the serial breaking of rank with Corbyn. Yes, Tom, we know you hate him. But the general idea is to get rid of the bloody Tories, no? Grrr...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 09:01 AM

Brexit U-turn: More than a third of Remainers now want EU exit in huge turnaround
A NEW poll has revealed that 35 percent of Remainers now want Brexit to be delivered


https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1176414/brexit-latest-news-eu-uk-exit-no-deal-latest-boris-johnson-uk-politics

This will not be well received on this forum by the Enid Blyton Famous Five


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 08:44 AM

Jim Carroll posted

"
"Guess it has been quite a while since you were down in Kent then Jim. "
I have family living on the South coast
Anywhere within reach of London is considered a suburb and is much further from imminent damage that the rest of the country that Thatcher deliberately alienated in her creation of 'Britain's two states'
To a great degree, that has always been the case, which is why I was forced to move from the north nearly half a century ago."

Ah I see. As we are in easier reach to London than other areas we don't have any deprivation then?

I told you earlier about the loss of 100s of jobs down here in 1993, directly related to the EU. You ignored that though as usual.

Incidentally why did members of your family vote for Brexit? Are they racists too?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 08:22 AM

"email attachment from my online pharmacist today"
The denials and whataboutism in that e-mail give it an extremely biased aspect Stan.
If "steps have been put into place" to avoid shortages it would have been blazened over every front page in Britain - Brexit would be proudly announcing it in Parliament if he hadn't shut it down
Give us a break - you're nearly as bad as our Guido adherent

"Guess it has been quite a while since you were down in Kent then Jim. "
I have family living on the South coast
Anywhere within reach of London is considered a suburb and is much further from imminent damage that the rest of the country that Thatcher deliberately alienated in her creation of 'Britain's two states'
To a great degree, that has always been the case, which is why I was forced to move from the north nearly half a century ago.

There are now calls to reopen parliament as Johnson's Junta has just recieved yet another kick in the goolies with the Scottish Court's decision
The decision to close it was described as "an attempt to stymie democracy"
Johnson has said he'll appeal of course - why wouldn't he - the taxpayer will foot te bill and the British economy is doing so well it will only have to SACK SOME MEDICAL STAFF to cover the cost
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 08:06 AM

Something for the Dom & Dumber devotees to think about...

https://www.facebook.com/276638585821743/posts/1415479091937681?sfns=mo


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