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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Jim Carroll 31 Oct 19 - 02:08 PM
Iains 31 Oct 19 - 02:30 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Oct 19 - 02:56 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Oct 19 - 06:40 PM
Nigel Parsons 31 Oct 19 - 07:11 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Oct 19 - 07:14 PM
DMcG 31 Oct 19 - 07:15 PM
Iains 31 Oct 19 - 07:42 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Oct 19 - 07:43 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Oct 19 - 07:47 PM
Jim Carroll 31 Oct 19 - 08:13 PM
Nigel Parsons 31 Oct 19 - 08:50 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Oct 19 - 09:00 PM
DMcG 01 Nov 19 - 02:57 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Nov 19 - 04:27 AM
Iains 01 Nov 19 - 04:37 AM
DMcG 01 Nov 19 - 05:06 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Nov 19 - 05:33 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Nov 19 - 05:40 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Nov 19 - 05:44 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Nov 19 - 05:46 AM
Iains 01 Nov 19 - 06:16 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Nov 19 - 07:24 AM
DMcG 01 Nov 19 - 07:30 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Nov 19 - 08:23 AM
Iains 01 Nov 19 - 08:25 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Nov 19 - 09:20 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Nov 19 - 09:37 AM
Stilly River Sage 01 Nov 19 - 10:51 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Nov 19 - 11:10 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Nov 19 - 02:44 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Nov 19 - 06:58 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Nov 19 - 08:57 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Nov 19 - 06:39 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Nov 19 - 06:40 AM
Iains 02 Nov 19 - 07:56 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Nov 19 - 08:07 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Nov 19 - 08:13 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Nov 19 - 10:53 AM
Mossback 02 Nov 19 - 11:17 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Nov 19 - 12:36 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Nov 19 - 01:04 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Nov 19 - 01:24 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Nov 19 - 01:27 PM
Iains 02 Nov 19 - 02:12 PM
mayomick 02 Nov 19 - 02:54 PM
Backwoodsman 02 Nov 19 - 03:44 PM
Iains 03 Nov 19 - 03:53 AM
Backwoodsman 03 Nov 19 - 05:06 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Nov 19 - 05:18 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Oct 19 - 02:08 PM

JOHNSON HAS GOD ON HIS SIDE

Don't suppose Nigel and his democrats would care to comment on this !!
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 31 Oct 19 - 02:30 PM

Boris and Farage have Trump on their side. Far more useful doncha think?

and even more importantly the polls ( not that they mean much this far from polling)
Ipsos MORI: CON: 41% (+8) LAB: 24% (-) LDEM: 20% (-3) BREX: 7% (-3)
YouGov: CON: 36% (-) LAB: 21% (-2) LDEM: 18% (-) BREX: 13% (+1)
Survation: CON: 34% (+2) LAB: 26% (+2) LDEM: 19% (-2) BREX: 12% (-1)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 19 - 02:56 PM

"And do remainers trust the "Full Fact" website?"

If you find anything wrong with what Jim and I have reproduced from Full Fact, Nigel, let's be having your alternative take. I read it carefully and couldn't find any defects in the piece. So it's over to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 19 - 06:40 PM

As I sit here typing this it's 24 minutes to Brexit. I know this because Boris promised me. No ifs, no buts, do or die (he needs to reread that poem properly, actually), or belly-up in a ditch. I'm awaiting with bated breath. Will there be a loud siren? Will every church bell ring out? Will the mountains of the earth be laid low? Or shall I moisten this squib that I bought specially for Guido Fawkes - oops, sorry, GUY Fawkes night - next week? Anyway, I'll miss the moment as I'll be watching the Question Time bearpit, fool that I am! Tick bloody tock!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 Oct 19 - 07:11 PM

If you find anything wrong with what Jim and I have reproduced from Full Fact, Nigel, let's be having your alternative take. I read it carefully and couldn't find any defects in the piece. So it's over to you.

It is a fairly long piece, and I have not found problems with it.
My comment was much shorter, and you appear to have ignored the final paragraph:

And do remainers trust the "Full Fact" website?


If so we should not have further comments from remainers that the only reason (or even main reason) for Brexit is a forthcoming change in EU tax law:

If so we should not have further comments from remainers that the only reason (or even main reason) for Brexit is a forthcoming change in EU tax law: Full Facts >Full Facts


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 19 - 07:14 PM

Bugger. Ten past eleven and nothing's happened. Still, never mind. Boris has PROMISED that we'll leave on 31 January. So that's all right then. A Boris promise. Woohoo! I'll restart the clock. Tick tock...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 31 Oct 19 - 07:15 PM

Jonathon Lis in Guardian commented:

We know Halloween is overhyped, but it did promise to be genuinely terrifying this year. Jacob Rees-Mogg warned that the Conservative party would cease to exist. Boris Johnson declared that he would die in a ditch. Mark Francois informed daytime television viewers that the country would explode


Well, did the earth move for you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 31 Oct 19 - 07:42 PM

Instead of attempting to make an issue of brexit not happening, (because we all know it was sabotaged by remainer MPs aided by a biased Bercow), why not give us a summary of compo's position on Brexit. I confess that I am a little confused and the long awaited election gets closer by the day. Labour's wobbling is going to eviscerate them at the ballot box.
Libdems to the left, brexit party to the right, the middle ground will will be a blasted wasteland of the shattered remnants of shell shocked labour. Wishful thinking or reality?
I predict the brexit party will now rise in the polls now the die is cast, especially after a ringing endorsement from President Trump.
Meanwhile back at the ranch - another bad day for compo:
On the first day of the campaign trail, Jeremy Corbyn suffered three major election blows. For the first time in its 100-year-history, the Jewish Labour Movement effectively went on strike, saying it would no longer send out activists due to the 'culture of anti-Semitism'. Labour also lost a battle with the BBC after attacking their anti-Semitism documentary and its presenter John Ware for apparent inaccuracy . To make matters worse for Corbyn, Nicola Sturgeon described him as 'completely and utterly useless'


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 19 - 07:43 PM

It's a bit like science, Nigel. Close scrutiny and a search for corroboration. Nothing's perfect, but I was fine with Full Fact on this occasion. Next time could be different. I wonder whether you apply the same principle to your Mail reading.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 19 - 07:47 PM

The deal did not go ahead because Boris Johnson pulled it petulantly, because he tried, undemocratically, to force it through with a totally unreasonable programme motion. Who knows, had he consented to two or three more days for scrutiny, we could have been out of the EU tonight. A Tory issue, aTory problem, a Tory delay.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Oct 19 - 08:13 PM

Isn't it strange that our resident flag-waggers don't give a toss about foreign interference in the forthcoming British election
Maybe they can persuade Putin to send one of his agents with some of their magic potion to rub out the opposition
Nigel - you should be ****** ashamed of yourself - I expected you to rise above your running-mate, who has welcomed it but - no - a matched pair!
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 Oct 19 - 08:50 PM

Jim:
For what am I supposed to be ashamed?
You mention 'foreign interference'. Where have I supported that?
If it is just that I haven't railed against it, then that is a very strange view point for you to take.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 19 - 09:00 PM

If there are any thickies still reading this thread, the Labour position can be easily understood by anyone with a CSE grade five in Media Studies, etc, or even by those who narrowly missed passing the eleven-plus. It is thus: if Labour gets power, they will negotiate a deal with the EU which they will then put to the people, with the alternative of remain on the ballot. How hard is that, chaps? And when it comes to that deal, it will involve a customs union, alignment with the single market and full rights for EU citizens. The EU will love it.

It's been as clear as that for ages. Any questions, leavers? Please let me know if it's too hard for you. Perhaps you'd be better employed trying to work out the plot of Spot The Dog.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 02:57 AM

Despite what some people claim, Labour's position is very clear, as Steve says. But in fact you can go further. Labour is trying to get a deal *precisely because* it is respecting the referendum result. If they did not, there would be no need to seek a deal. And any deal they negotiate will be to leave and therefore 100% compatible with the 2016 result, which did not insist on any specific kind of leave, whatever Brexiteers would have you believe. Then they will put it to a confirmatory vote *precisely because* the 2016 did not say how we should leave so it is desirable to ask the question "Did we get this right?"

Also, we can anticipate future criticism that they will deliberately negotiate a bad deal to try to make people vote it down. They are aware the outcome of a second referendum could go either way, so they want all options to be as good as possible because they may have to implement it and live with the consequences.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 04:27 AM

"You mention 'foreign interference'. Where have I supported that?"
Trumps deliberate support for Farage (the racist) and Johnson and his attack on one of the main candidates in the forthcoming election ids totally unprecedented - it is a blatant attempt to influence the selection o the party that will have to clean up the mess of Brexit and put Britain on its feet again
What Trump has said so far is a step away from saying "If you elect this man there will be no Trade Deal" - given his track record that is on the cards as a next step
Given the unstable monster that Trump has proven to be, the silence of you and yours at his behaviour (and the open support from your running mate) is an utter disgrace - "traitorous" to borrow a phrase now being bandied about by your lot
As I said - you shoud be ashamed of yourself for lying down and allowing this to happen without comment
Shame on you
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 04:37 AM

The Labour strategy is to try almost to divorce Brexit from the other issues, arguing that can be settled further down the line in a referendum with a "credible" Leave option and Remain on the ballot.

Labour policy in a nutshell: Fiddle about, fiddle about.
We all know what happened to Rome when Nero had the same policy.
The turkey roast should be a stunner in December!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 05:06 AM

if Johnson wins, with a strong hard Brexit majority we could leave by 31st January 2020, or even perhaps 1st January. At which point he will be in power for the next five years. so it is perfectly right and proper to focus on the time after Brexit day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 05:33 AM

"Trumps deliberate support for Farage (the racist) and Johnson..."

You misspoke, Jim. You should have said "...Farage (the racist) and Johnson (the other racist)...." Piccaninnies, watermelon smiles, letterboxes, bank robbers - remember?

It feels like the morning after one of those end-of-the-world predictions that didn't come true. I wonder whether our brexiteers would like to turn the clock back. Tock, tick...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 05:40 AM

".Farage (the racist) and Johnson (the other racist)....""
Whoops - sorry
To a degree it doesn't matter what Johnson is when he becomes Trump's glove-puppet - his (Britain's) role will be confined to obeying HMV
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 05:44 AM

We had Liam Fox doing "dither and delay" this morning. I tell you, that stupid expression will be all over the place like a rash in no time at all. Ironic, really, when you think that Boris could have had his deal through by now if only he'd allowed a sensible period of time for scrutiny. Doing his deal then pulling it when things were going swimmingly was an excellent example of dither and delay, I'd say. Still, if you want an election you have to have someone to blame for something, I suppose...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 05:46 AM

Heheh. Was that little HMV doggy peering into the sound-horn really a poodle, Jim? That would be very appropriate!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 06:16 AM

With all the unsubstantiated claims of racism being hurled about, instead of reasoned argument, let us look at the facts.
In May, the Equality and Human Rights Commission announced an inquiry into whether Labour had "unlawfully discriminated against, harassed or victimised people because they are Jewish". (clearly an accusationof waycism)
From the Independent:(Oct.12 2019)
Members of Labour’s ruling executive have privately voiced fears that the party could be bankrupted as a result of an official inquiry into antisemitism, The Independent has learnt.

Members of the National Executive Committee (NEC) have expressed concerns that a damning verdict from the equalities watchdog about Labour’s handling of antisemitic abuse could open the party up to a slew of lawsuits from Jewish members and former members, possibly resulting in hefty damages having to be paid.

It is understood that the issue was discussed at a recent NEC meeting, with members of the committee voicing major concerns about the fallout from the probe and who would be financially responsible.


This would suggest chuckleberry's previous enquiry on the same matter was a whitewash.
Terrible things facts!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 07:24 AM

There has never been a shred of evidence that Labour has a major problem with discrimination against the Jewish People - all accusations of "antisemitish have come from 'Friends of Israel' in various forms and right-wing political opponents of Corbyn
There was not a single complaint made against Labour until Corby gave his support to The Palaestinians - not one
Israel has deliberately blurred the lines between attacks against Jews and criticsm of Israeli policy, which has harmed the Jewish Poeple as much as it has harmed the Labour Party - synagogues have now come under attack by right-wing groups in Europe - from the right - never from the left
Israel has over the last 18 months killed three times more unarmed demonstrators than were shor down at Sharpville and the press has been totally silent about this fact for fear of being branded "antisemitic"
No attacks on Jews - no antisemitism
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 07:30 AM

I see Farage has just declared the Johnson deal to be so bad it would amount to "the end of Brexit."

it would be interesting to see how the Brexiteers on this site think they should vote then. Of course, a vote is secret so they are under no obligation to tell us, but they could still indicate whether they think the proposed deal is 'great' as Johnson claims, or 'the end of Brexit' as Faeage thinks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 08:23 AM

The greased albino piglet vs the nicotine stained toad.

Should be an interesting match. Who will out-lie who?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 08:25 AM

May's Deal aka Boris's deal is a reparations treaty with worse terms than staying in the EU.


There has never been a shred of evidence that Labour has a major problem with discrimination against the Jewish People

So you are suggesting the present enquiry is spurious?
Do not be ridiculous! If the enquiry is nonsense, as you suggest, why is the Labour party scared it might face bankruptcy? As usual your arguments are but hot air, and merely trying to provoke.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 09:20 AM

If anyone here wants to resurrect that tired old antisemitism stuff, sod off and start a thread on it, please. Now if not sooner. I want this one to keep going, thanks.

Good to see that Jeremy has two new friends, Nigel Farage and Donald Trump!

The latest Tory lie is that a Labour win would generate two referendums in 2020. Even if Labour and the SNP form some sort of alliance, there is no chance of an independence referendum next year. It's just bullshite.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 09:37 AM

Racist Farage has demanded that racist Johnson abandons his proposals for Brexit otherwise his racist Brexit Party will contest every seat in the General Election
Racist Trump has suggested an leadership alliance between Farage and the Tories - and what we know what Trump's "suggestions" mean - ask Greenland
So a disgraced right-wing inept and disgraced political opportunist stands to joing up with an inept clown to guide Britain though the greates threat to its future that it has faced
Happy days      

"So you are suggesting the present enquiry is spurious?"
ABSOLUTELY
No atatcks on Jews - no antisemitism
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 10:51 AM

All of the rational portion of the United States offers an apology with profound sense of shame that the meddlesome Resident of the United States has set his sites on supporting xenophobic racists in other countries. The only reason we can figure is that he has a thing for dictators who refuse to consider human rights. He is also willfully stubborn in refusing to accept advice from experts or about trying to educate himself regarding what the job of President is supposed to perform. He will never be your ally, he's only in it for himself, probably to inject revenue into any property he owns within your boundaries. #HeadsUp


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 11:10 AM

One of the problems with Brexit ahs been that the populism, particularly that regarding race) has been taken up and is being used all over Europe
We are now feeling the percussions in Ireland where residents of small towns chosen to house refugees are protesting (about four now) extremist right groups have honed in and made each protest a cause celebré and are using them as propaganda
Last year Marine LéPen proposed a federation of extremist groups - this seems to be part of it
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 02:44 PM

"Anyway, let's stick to brexit in this thread, eh?"
Yup
Johnson is on a hiding to nothing
If he doesn't drop the deal the Tory vote will be split by the Brexit party taking away votes
If he refuses to form a partnership with Farage Trump will almost certainly block any future Trade deal so if Britain leaves Europe it will have lost one of its major sources of Trade
Shafted, good and proper PBTG
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 06:58 PM

No need to apologise, Maggie. We have vicious populists here too. We just have to fight to get them sidelined in elections, just as you do. This election is pivotal, as is yours next year. Let's fight!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 08:57 PM

There's a piece in the Guardian by Jonathan Freedland, who usually gets on me nerves big time with his bees in his bonnet, that resonated with me. Here's a chunk:

But if we won’t know who’s won till 12 December – and maybe not even then – we already know what’s been lost. The current parliament is about to breathe its last; its final act will be the election of a new Speaker on Monday. As they leave, transformed from MPs back into mere candidates, the members of the old House will have ringing in their ears the booming voice of the attorney general, Geoffrey Cox, who in a pantomime performance in September told them they were “a disgrace”, that they had lost the “moral right to sit on these green benches”. Echoing, too, will be the words of both this prime minister and the last one, denouncing them as saboteurs of the popular will, even as agents of “surrender” to a foreign enemy.

Such churn is normal at any election, but there’s something different this time.
Yet in truth, far from waving off the outgoing Commons with jeers and condemnation, we should thank them for their service. The very fact that Boris Johnson itched to see them gone is testament to their achievement. They had done their job – of acting as a restraint on the executive – with unusual ingenuity and even, whisper it, bravery.

Remember, this was a government that, had it had its own way, would have suspended parliament altogether, using the ancient royal power of prorogation. (It’s thanks to campaigners, lawyers and the wise 11 judges of the supreme court that it was stopped.) Johnson was urging the nation to jump off the 31 October cliff into a no-deal Brexit.

What held him back? Only the imagination and industry of a handful of MPs – Oliver Letwin, Yvette Cooper, Dominic Grieve, Hilary Benn and others – who were determined to find a way to block no deal, one that a majority of MPs could agree on. They succeeded. And then they succeeded again less than a fortnight ago, ensuring that Johnson was not allowed to steamroller his new EU deal into law in just three days. It’s thanks to them that, this weekend, we are still in the European Union.

Letwin, Grieve and the rest of the 21 Tories who were later purged from their party risked their careers to do that, putting the national interest first. It required working with others across the party divide. It required standing up to their leader, their whips, their local activists and a fiercely hostile pro-Brexit press. When it would have been so much easier to keep their heads down, they showed courage.

It also helped having a Speaker in John Bercow who, hardly shy of public attention, knew his duty was to defend parliament against the power-grabbing instincts of the executive.


That's a sane and rational appraisal of the last few weeks in m'humble.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 06:39 AM

No probs, pete. I know I started this thread but I don't claim to own it. Brexit is of course massively tied up with the election so I can't see an issue with bringing the election into it. Tangential issues that have been done to death over several years are a different matter. And persistently trying to bring them into this thread is barefaced trolling. We shouldn't be surprised. Anyone who is signed up here is free to start their own thread. Now it's pretty undeniable that there was a large element of xenophobia whipped up in the referendum campaign, and it's legitimate to bring it here. It is not legitimate to jump in with a load of opportunistic whataboutery. I suggest that no-one responds to it in this thread. Let's hope the mods agree and that we can keep the thread afloat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 06:40 AM

Let's try to keep this thread going, Jim.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 07:56 AM

As all lefties regard the gruniard as the ultimate font of truth and wisdom howsabout that:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/antisemitism

Mr shaw if you keep your semi housetrained troll under some semblance of control we can move forward.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 08:07 AM

‘Font of truth and wisdom’?

Thy lack of education, evidenced by thy mondegreens, shall find thee out, squaddie. It’s fount.

https://grammarist.com/phrase/fount-of-knowledge-or-wisdom-vs-font-of-knowledge-or-wisdom/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 08:13 AM

Apologies to all the decent people here for resorting to Nigelism, but sometimes the Right-Wing Extremist Troll makes such a tit of himself it’s almost impossible to resist...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 10:53 AM

THIS THOUGHTFUL PIECE IS WELL WORTH READING
AND THIS

And this is worth revisiting - the Jewish view (can't blue-clickie
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-labour-conference-jewish-supporter-vote-political-weapon-a7330891.html
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mossback
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 11:17 AM

Well Worth Reading on both sides of the pond -

Why Trump is much worse than the UK’s Boris Johnson and Brexit

AlterNet 1 Nov 2019

Sorry, Britain, we win. And believe me, I’m sorrier about that than I can say.

Because from where I sit, our criminal president, Cheeto Benito Trump, has got your dissembling, cheating Boris Johnson beat by a corrupt mile. Or corrupt kilometer, depending on the country.

Yes, your Brexit crisis is completely miserable and soul-desiccating, no question about it, but as immobilizing and awful as it has been for the last three-and-a-half years, your current prime minister’s colossal wrongheadedness ultimately can’t compare with the corruption that has overwhelmed the United States with the virulence of Ebola...


Article continues HERE

PS: Please DO ignore the Bo, the Bad, and the Ugly- or they'll accomplish their objective, as Steve & others points out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 12:36 PM

Unfortunately it was Brexit that first made populism a major threat by openig the door to anybody ruthless to use minorities and refugees as a way to the stars - we gave Trump his way in
The US has nothing to apologise for (for a change)
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 01:04 PM

We certainly helped to get the tide flowing that way. There are other populist leaders in the world, of course. We desperately need to get these two out. And we need to stay in the EU, which is becoming the only decent major democratic bloc on earth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 01:24 PM

"There are other populist leaders in the world, of course."
I think ours have been the first to hit the big time in the 21st century
Not something I would boast about
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 01:27 PM

The truely shameful thing if that Farage succeeded using the arguments Enoch Powell was disgraced out of politics - a true measure of Britain's deterioration
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 02:12 PM

For the pedantic:
Strictly speaking, 'fountain of all knowledge' is correct rather than 'fount' or 'font'. All three are used nowadays, but the original ?fountain' version was a 17th century quote and the other two are just more modern variants of that original.
The quote is from 'An Essay Concerning Human Understanding' by the philosopher, John Locke, published in 1690. Clearly, in it he was referring to God.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: mayomick
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 02:54 PM

Can’t agree about the origins of anti-EU populism ,Jim C. Whatever about the leave/ remain options on offer in the UK ballot paper, this thing called Brexit is the package people are going to get if Johnson and Farage get their way .
Thatcherism originated in the US in the 70s with the Chicago School of Economics before Thatcher came to power in the UK . Similarly, Brexit,which was not offered as an option in the 2016 referendum, comes from powerful, vehemently anti-EU interests in the US working with co-thinkers in the UK to break up a competitor.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 03:44 PM

At last, in his speech on 1/11/19 opening the Brexit Party’s election campaign, Ole Haddock-Face finally confesses that Brexit is NOT ‘The Will of the People’...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 03:53 AM

The danger of a Corbyn Victory in December.

Clearly the state of denial some are in is not shared in the real world.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1199346/Election-news-Jeremy-Corbyn-James-Cleverly-Labour-antisemitism-anti-Semitic-Jewi


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/11/02/jewish-families-will-leave-uk-jeremy-corbyn-wins-general-election/

We had better hope the populists win and give magic grandad a thorough trouncing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 05:06 AM

Meanwhile, back to the thread topic. A very interesting piece by William Keegan, attempting to alert the disenfranchised in our society that it was the Conservative Party’s Austerity, not the EU, that broke the UK and left them behind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 05:18 AM

Labour appears to be gaining in the polls and the Brexit Party down in the dumps were they belong
Liberal Democrats are losing support steadily
Johnson is refusing Farage's advances for now but is quite likely to do a fracking-like U-turn when he realise that The Brexit Party, with no chance of winning is quite likely to split the Tory vote down the middle
Early days yet - Trump is not beyond parachuting in the marines if things don't go his way, as described in MY ALL TIME FAVOURITE TV SERIAL
Jim


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