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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

DMcG 28 Jan 19 - 03:22 PM
Steve Shaw 28 Jan 19 - 03:07 PM
Dave the Gnome 28 Jan 19 - 03:06 PM
Iains 28 Jan 19 - 02:47 PM
mayomick 28 Jan 19 - 01:27 PM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 01:06 PM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 12:37 PM
Backwoodsman 28 Jan 19 - 12:19 PM
DMcG 28 Jan 19 - 11:51 AM
Raggytash 28 Jan 19 - 10:38 AM
DMcG 28 Jan 19 - 10:33 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 10:17 AM
Raggytash 28 Jan 19 - 10:16 AM
Iains 28 Jan 19 - 10:04 AM
DMcG 28 Jan 19 - 09:08 AM
Iains 28 Jan 19 - 09:03 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 09:03 AM
Jack Campin 28 Jan 19 - 08:57 AM
Steve Shaw 28 Jan 19 - 08:29 AM
Backwoodsman 28 Jan 19 - 08:25 AM
Iains 28 Jan 19 - 08:21 AM
Iains 28 Jan 19 - 08:02 AM
Steve Shaw 28 Jan 19 - 07:35 AM
Steve Shaw 28 Jan 19 - 07:33 AM
Backwoodsman 28 Jan 19 - 07:29 AM
Backwoodsman 28 Jan 19 - 07:26 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 07:26 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 07:24 AM
Steve Shaw 28 Jan 19 - 07:23 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 07:18 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 06:48 AM
Iains 28 Jan 19 - 05:50 AM
Backwoodsman 28 Jan 19 - 05:36 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 05:05 AM
Iains 28 Jan 19 - 04:56 AM
Iains 28 Jan 19 - 04:48 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 02:57 AM
DMcG 28 Jan 19 - 02:05 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Jan 19 - 08:10 PM
Nigel Parsons 27 Jan 19 - 06:02 PM
Nigel Parsons 27 Jan 19 - 05:58 PM
Iains 27 Jan 19 - 03:10 PM
Backwoodsman 27 Jan 19 - 02:14 PM
Donuel 27 Jan 19 - 01:50 PM
Backwoodsman 27 Jan 19 - 12:38 PM
Jim Carroll 27 Jan 19 - 11:22 AM
Iains 27 Jan 19 - 09:31 AM
Jim Carroll 27 Jan 19 - 09:06 AM
Iains 27 Jan 19 - 08:57 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Jan 19 - 08:24 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 03:22 PM

It seems to rely entirely on the assumption that the EU will back down. Seems unlikely to me. So then she would have to bring back version A again, more or less. Unless the amendments of Cooper and Grieve are in play, who can even guess what would happen then.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 03:07 PM

I see that the government is backing the Brady amendment, the one about revising tbe backstop. I can't see how this is going to move us on. The backstop can neither be removed nor time-limited, nor should it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 03:06 PM

Eeeeh. Isn't this fun. Keep it up lads ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 02:47 PM

If we believed everything we read in the Daily Mirror we would be in a very sad way. Most educated people regard it as a comic, along with the guardian, apart from teachers who like freebies.

Isn't it fascinating that someone who considers it anti-British to attack elected British members of parliament rant on about politicians of hiss own party and refers to the ones he doesn't agree with as "traitors"
Never understood this patriotism thing


It is in fine company then and joins a host of other things you do not understand. By the way are you going to substantiate your statement about Dyson moving his tax domicile, or apologize for using terminological inexactitudes? We await your response with interest!
This is twice I have asked now!

Let me explain who the traitors are.
MPs have voted by a majority of 384 to allow Prime Minister Theresa May to get Brexit negotiations under way.

They backed the government's European Union Bill, supported by the Labour leadership, by 498 votes to 114.

But the SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Liberal Democrats opposed the bill, while 47 Labour MPs and Tory ex-chancellor Ken Clarke rebelled.

Several months later there was a general election. Did any Tory MPs voice an objection to brexit or inform their electorate they would betray them 5 minutes later. The answer is: No they did not. Ensuring the security of their sinecure was of more importance to them than being honest to their electorate. Those are the facts and those facts lead a rational person to only one conclusiuon. Betrayal!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: mayomick
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 01:27 PM

The date will have to be put back according to a Daily Mirror article from 23 Jan under the headline :
“Brexit has already been cancelled - and here's why they're not telling you”

There just won’t be enough parliamentary time to conclude the bills that need to be passed before March 29 .
“Of the 14 new bills required for Brexit - on things like animal welfare, money laundering and haulage - just 5 have been passed since the referendum.
Of the 9 remaining, the one closest to being finished is the Trade Bill - and the House of Lords just voted to shelve it because it lacked detail.”
That defeat in the Lords means that Britain is now unable to move to World Trade Organisation rules in the event of a no deal Brexit.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-already-been-cancelled-heres-13896286


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 01:06 PM

BBC news has just reported than a number of major food manufacturers have predicted that supermarket shelves could be left empty if Birtain crashes out of the E.U.
One brave Brexiteer interviewed told the reporter - "it wont do us any harm to do without for once"
You really couldn't make this up
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 12:37 PM

"Sounds like a perfect description of the Brexshiteers,"
There's a nice leter in the Irsih Times this morning describing new terms that have sprung since the referendum - I was quite taken by "Brexcrement"
Someone must be reading your postings Baccie !!
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 12:19 PM

Sounds like a perfect description of the Brexshiteers, and a bloody good reason to kick them, and their insane BrexShit notions into touch.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 11:51 AM

There was talk of what Samuel Johnson thought of patriotism. Here some extracts from his pamphlet The Patriot:

A man sometimes starts up a patriot, only by disseminating discontent, and propagating reports of secret influence, of dangerous counsels, of violated rights, and encroaching usurpation.

   This practice is no certain note of patriotism. To instigate the populace with rage beyond the provocation, is to suspend publick happiness, if not to destroy it. He is no lover of his country, that unnecessarily disturbs its peace. Few errours and few faults of government, can justify an appeal to the rabble; who ought not to judge of what they cannot understand, and whose opinions are not propagated by reason, but caught by contagion

   ...
   
   But all this may be done in appearance, without real patriotism. He that raises false hopes to serve a present purpose, only makes a way for disappointment and discontent. He who promises to endeavour, what he knows his endeavours unable to effect, means only to delude his followers by an empty clamour of ineffectual zeal.
   A true patriot is no lavish promiser: he undertakes not to shorten parliaments; to repeal laws; or to change the mode of representation, transmitted by our ancestors; he knows that futurity is not in his power, and that all times are not alike favourable to change.
   Much less does he make a vague and indefinite promise of obeying the mandates of his constituents. He knows the prejudices of faction, and the inconstancy of the multitude. He would first inquire, how the opinion of his constituents shall be taken. Popular instructions are, commonly, the work, not of the wise and steady, but the violent and rash; meetings held for directing representatives are seldom attended but by the idle and the dissolute; and he is not without suspicion, that of his constituents, as of other numbers of men, the smaller part may often be the wiser.
   He considers himself as deputed to promote the publick good, and to preserve his constituents, with the rest of his countrymen, not only from being hurt by others, but from hurting themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 10:38 AM

Thanks DMcG


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 10:33 AM

Guardian article on retailers' warning


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 10:17 AM

Isn't it fascinating that someone who considers it anti-British to attack elected British members of parliament rant on about politicians of hiss own party and refers to the ones he doesn't agree with as "traitors"
Never understood this patriotism thing


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 10:16 AM

I suspect that the Brexiteers on here will tell us that the warning issued by retailers Sainburys, Asda, M & S, Co-op and Waitrose of expected shortages post Brexit to the Government are all part of Project Fear or that we cannot trust their predictions.

Could someone please link to the article in todays Guardian.

If the Brexiteers do not respond as I have suggested I have no doubt they will ignore this post completely.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 10:04 AM

An interesting analysis:


https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/what-will-happen-to-the-tory-traitors/

and the EU's useful idiots. Do they not realize that EU tax harmonization will create a wasteland where the multinationals once were? That will be their payment!

https://order-order.com/2019/01/28/irish-government-accused-weaponising-good-friday-agreement/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 09:08 AM

I am fairly sure I read that Rees-Mogg joked at the Bruges group speech that someone had thrust a leaflet into his hand which he found "sound on Brexit" and then discovered it was from the Communist party.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 09:03 AM

Not to anybody in particular
Interesting to see that a future excuse for when Brexit sends what is left of British in industry crashing into smithereens will be that we never had one worth talking about anyway
Patriots - who'd have 'em !!


I cannot make any sense of what you are trying to say.

It is a real education to see that those that protest the most have zero clue as to the difference between a Dyson the man and Dyson Ltd(a company)
Never has such confusion been displayed by so few.

In January 2019 it was announced that Dyson would move its headquarters to Singapore to ramp up manufacturing for their electric vehicle, stating Asia trade will be their main focus and commenting that the company was unhappy with EU/UK bureaucratic restrictions.

You really must learn to post accurately, otherwise your credibility goes pfffffff!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 09:03 AM

"I'm off to Waitrose to stockpile baked beans and air freshener."
Don't forget to call into Boots for the medicines you might not be able to get
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 08:57 AM

What sucks even more than a Dyson? Support for Brexit from a direction you might not have expected:

The Communist Party


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 08:29 AM

I'm off to Waitrose to stockpile baked beans and air freshener.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 08:25 AM

On the BBC News app at the moment....

"A no-deal Brexit threatens the UK's food security and will lead to higher prices and empty shelves, retailers are preparing to warn MPs.
M&S, Sainsbury's and Waitrose are among those warning stockpiling fresh food is impossible and that the UK is very reliant on the EU for produce.
The warning comes in a letter from the British Retail Consortium and is signed by the main food retailers.
It comes ahead of crucial votes in Parliament tomorrow.
The letter, seen by the BBC, uses the government's own estimate that freight through Calais may fall 87% from current levels, threatening the availability and shelf life of many products.
The letter expresses worry over tariffs, with only 10% of the UK's food imports currently subject to World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules.
If the UK were to revert to WTO rules, the retailers warn that would "greatly increase import costs that would in turn put upward pressure on food prices".
The other signatories to the letter include the chief executives of KFC, Co-Op, and Lidl.
The letter spells out the UK's food relationship with Europe, with nearly one third of the food in the UK coming from the EU.
"In March, the situation becomes more acute as UK produce is out of season," the letter says.
At that time of year, 90% of lettuces, 80% of tomatoes and 70% of soft fruit sold in the UK is grown in the EU, the letter says.
No more room to stockpile
"As this produce is fresh and perishable, it needs to be moved quickly from farms to our stores," the retailers say.
Retailers have been reluctant to intervene in the Brexit debate but are doing so now as the UK's departure date from the EU approaches.
Their letter says that stockpiling fresh food is impossible and that the complex, 'just in time' supply chain through which food is imported into the UK will be "significantly disrupted" in the event of a no-deal Brexit.
It adds it is difficult to stockpile any more produce as "all frozen and chilled storage is already been used".
"While we have been working closely with our suppliers on contingency plans, it is not possible to mitigate all the risks to our supply chains and we fear significant disruption as a result if there is no Brexit deal," the retailers say in the letter to MPs."

I don't remember seeing that on the side of that bloody bus!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 08:21 AM

"Finally, I'd say that any bloke who has accrued personal wealth of four and a half billion quid in a couple of decades making hoovers is ripping us off. If you don't believe me, look in the shops and admire the eye-watering prices of his stuff."

A typical ignorant leftard comment based on fliff, fluff and flimflam, that seems suspiciously like the politics of envy.

Dyson has mastered the noble art of manufacturing successful widgets.
He designed the Rotork Seatruck at age 23. It is a very useful mini landing craft that I have used in Gabon.

Greatest Inventions of Dyson
His personal wealth more than demonstrate that his widgets keep him solvent.

How he prices his goods is a matter for him but follows well trodden ground


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 08:02 AM

Still no proof of Dyson's change of tax domicile, yet Sir Jim still continues to lie about the man. What a surprise!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 07:35 AM

Dammit, I thought that hadn't taken! Leave it, mods - I embellished it a bit second time round!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 07:33 AM

Well excuse me but I've always paid every single penny of all the tax I ever owed but all I bloody get on this forum is slagged off!

Odd chap, this Dyson. He campaigned and whinged and threatened the government when they wouldn't join the euro. Now he's somehow become an ardent brexiteer and his pronouncements and actions simply enable the confidence to be sapped from this country. With him we can't win, can we?

I'd also, as an aside, say this about him and his stuff. I've had his bloody hoovers, big beasts, cordless and hand-held, ever since they came out. When they work they're great, they really are, but give me a couple of hours and I'll tell you what's wrong with them. They jam, block, clog up, make a horrible whining noise (a bit like Sir Jim), spit out what they've just sucked up because the little flap doesn't work and the hoses last six months if you so much as dare to use them for the purpose for which they are supposedly intended. Emptying them unavoidably involves inevitable lung cancer, and you'll spend a pleasant ten minutes finding something with which to dig out the compacted fluff from a thousand little holes - if you can actually manage to dismantle the drum sufficiently to get at the fluff, that is. And the motors burn out and the allegedly washable filters are unfit for purpose. As for those hand-dryers in public bogs, it's an art in itself using them without touching the sides, and there's a puddle of slime, snot and at least one pubic hair in that nasty little trough at the bottom, so not too deep now, lads!

But his triumph came when he decided to give an unconditional five-year parts and labour warranty on his gear. Believe me, you need it and will invoke it often. That was his business coup de grace!

Finally, I'd say that any bloke who has accrued personal wealth of four and a half billion quid in a couple of decades making hoovers is ripping us off. If you don't believe me, look in the shops and admire the eye-watering prices of his stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 07:29 AM

Never trust a man whose parents couldn't spell 'Aaron'. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 07:26 AM

Aaaaahh-yup to all of that Steve.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 07:26 AM

"
DEFINITELY AN INVESTMENT TACTIC
"
There-there !!
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 07:24 AM

DEFINITELY AN INVESTMENT TACTIC
Jaysus - they really did see the British people coming, didn't they ?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 07:23 AM

Well excuse me but I've always paid every single penny of all the tax I ever owed but all I bloody get on this forum is slagged off!

Odd chap, this Dyson. He campaigned and whinged and threatened the government when they wouldn't join the euro. Now he's somehow become an ardent brexiteer and his pronouncements and actions simply enable the confidence to be sapped from this country. With him we can't win, can we?

I'd also, as an aside, say this about him and his stuff. I've had his bloody hoovers, big beasts, cordless and hand-held, ever since they came out. When they work they're great, they really are, but give me a couple of hours and I'll tell you what's wrong with them. They jam, block, clog up, make a horrible whining noise (a bit like Sir Jim), spit out what they've just sucked up because the little flap doesn't work and the hoses last six months if you so much as dare to use them for the purpose for which they are supposedly intended. Emptying them unavoidably involves inevitable lung cancer. And the motors burn out and the allegedly washable filters are unfit for purpose. As for those hand-dryers in public bogs, it's an art in itself using them without touching the sides, and there's a puddle of slime, snot and at least one pubic hair in that nasty little trough at the bottom, so not too deep now, lads!

But his triumph came when he decided to give an unconditional five-year parts and labour warranty on his gear. Believe me, you need it and will invoke it often. That was his business coup de grace!

Finally, I'd say that any bloke who has accrued personal wealth of four and a half billion quid in a couple of decades making hoovers is ripping us off. If you don't believe me, look in the shops and admire the eye-watering prices of his stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 07:18 AM

SEEMS LIKE DYSON ISN'T THE ONLY SCURRYING RAT

Even the leading political Brexireers
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-john-redwood-tory-mp-investors-withdraw-money-uk-economy-city-london-eu-a8056771.html

Brexit is an investment to some
https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/02/08/2198570/jacob-rees-moggs-huge-personal-windfall-after-brexit/

True patriots all
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 06:48 AM

"I'm a firm believer in Samuel Johnson's theory of 'patriotism'."
Me too
We appear to be dealing with someone who believes that being patriotic means earning enough out of a country to have to pay £127.8 million per annum to the Revenue making a bomb out of EU subsidies for his farming enterprises, backing Brexit to the point of donating £12m, saying a "no deal" leave will "make no difference" and then pissing off from Britain when he realises that the policy he firmly supported and financed will rebound on him financially
'Rule Britannia every time - until the going gets tough
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 05:50 AM

"Boswell tells us that Samuel Johnson made this famous pronouncement that patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel on the evening of April 7, 1775. He doesn't provide any context for how the remark arose, so we don't really know for sure what was on Johnson's mind at the time. However, Boswell assures us that Johnson was not indicting patriotism in general, only false patriotism.”

However:We, the People, recognize that we have responsibilities as well as rights; that our destinies are bound together; that a freedom which only asks what's in it for me, a freedom without a commitment to others, a freedom without love or charity or duty or patriotism, is unworthy of our founding ideals, and those who died in their defense. Barack Obama


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 05:36 AM

"Patriots - who'd have 'em !!"

I'm a firm believer in Samuel Johnson's theory of 'patriotism'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 05:05 AM

Not to anybody in particular
Interesting to see that a future excuse for when Brexit sends what is left of British in industry crashing into smithereens will be that we never had one worth talking about anyway
Patriots - who'd have 'em !!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 04:56 AM

"That rats like Dyson start deserting the sinking ship gives the impression that some of them have a good idea"

Do you have any evidence to prove Mr Dyson is changing his tax domicile, or are you merely hurling insults at the man, who has tripled his U.K. team over the past five years and currently employs 3,500 people in the country, half of which are engineers and scientists.

I suggest you either prove your statement or retract publicly your slur on a man who paid 127.8 million to the Revenue last year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 04:48 AM

"I have become used to the mindless disinterest of our poster who wsums up British industry as the production of "widgets", but Nigel's complacency frankly depresses me
Is there no one on your side who can show some interest in Britain's future ?"


In black and white a very clear indication of not having the slightest idea of what was said. Most ably demonstrated by the following:
I left Liverpool in the 1960 when the containerisation wiped out Liverpool as a port - that was echoed throughout Britain
As was pointed out steverdores, dockers and longshoremen went the way of the dodo. The real story:Here(!Off the Waterfront: The long-run impact of technological change on ...
https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/polopoly_fs/1.679168!/file/2014_D2_2_Upward.pd.)

There never was a golden age . Old industries die, other modes of employment arise.
It is driven by economics and innovation. But discussing economics with the left is as productive as discussing metaphysics with a fruitfly.
Corbyn well recognises the problem:
Sep 26, 2017 - The Labour leader says it's right to be carrying out "war games" planning for government. ... suggested that there could be a run on the pound if Labour went into government. ...

This is a far more plausible scenario than wargaming troops on the streets after brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 02:57 AM

Nigel's "does imagine" sums it all up really - that's what everybody has to do regarding Britain's future "imagine" - nobody knows what will happen after Britain leaves the E U, or, based on current rumblings, whether it even will leave
Already they are talking about putting any decision on 'the long finger' and pushing the date back a few months
One of the complaints of the economists and industrialists has long been that they cannot possibly plan for the future if they have no idea of what they are going to have to deal with
That rats like Dyson start deserting the sinking ship gives the impression that some of them have a good idea
Do you have any view of the shortages of medicines that is being discussed - can we assume that you "don't imagine" that will happen either?
I have become used to the mindless disinterest of our poster who wsums up British industry as the production of "widgets", but Nigel's complacency frankly depresses me
Is there no one on your side who can show some interest in Britain's future ?

Nice cartoon in the Irish edition of the Sunday Times - two road signs side-by-side - one reading "you are now leaving Fishguard", the other "Please join the queue for Dover here"
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 02:05 AM

It was no accident that I asked about hardship for your nearest and dearest rather than yourself. We have all seen the cinematic set piece where the villain threatens the hero who nobly bears it, so the villain turns his weapon on the hero's family. "You are prepared to die for your beliefs, I see. Are you prepared for these others to die for them?"

That you are prepared to put up with problems for your beliefs is your right. The question is are you prepared to let others (who don't necessarily share them) suffer for them. That does not look heroic. It looks self centred.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 08:10 PM

Well make sure your health cover is up to snuff because a crashout means no EHIC, and no reciprocal medical care agreements means that your insurance will cost more, and it will also mean that your existing conditions won't be covered unless you pay a fortune. It could mean no more free roaming. And don't expect to swan through customs at the airport like you do now either. It's true that a weak pound means that Brits may be less inclined to go to Europe on holiday, which in turn may provide an incentive for EU holiday providers to cut costs. But book your hols now, Nigel, because, sure as eggs is eggs, that will be temporary. We're not the only tourists who like to holiday in Europe. I stashed away a goodly supply of euros when I could get 1.20 or more to the pound. Lucky me. Better move fast before May gets trashed again this week, Nigel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 06:02 PM

That was my first post in this 'new' thread as I've been away on holiday (to Malta).
If we manage to escape the EU I don't imagine it will put any great barriers in the way of my taking such holidays in future (or to the Spanish islands, or elsewhere). The poorer (and sunnier) members of the EU rely on tourist income to a great extent.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 05:58 PM

From: DMcG - PM
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 07:37 AM
. . . Unless they avoid facing up to it which is what I expect. For example Nigel went as far as accepting there will be 'Some short term hardship' but was not openly prepared to say he is ready to accept his nearest and dearest suffering that hardship.

There may be some 'short term hardship' (translate that expression how you may) but I am willing to accept that for myself, in the belief that getting free of membership of the EU will, in the long run, be better for the UK.
I realise that my immediate (younger) family may have voted 'remain'. That is, of course, their option. But my belief is that their votes (if that was the case) were based on the knowledge of a limited period of experience. I voted based on the history of the EU/EEC/Common Market since we joined. I believe that the original choice to join (taken by politicians), or to remain in 'The Common Market' (taken by referendum) was the wrong choice.
The more I see of the manoeuvres by the EU politicians (including a large number of our MPs) to pressurise us not to leave (despite the result of the referendum) the more I believe I was right to vote 'Leave'.
And I don't think I said "There will be some short term hardship". I think I accepted that there 'may' be, but that it was worth it to get out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 03:10 PM

http://eveningharold.com/2019/01/23/dyson-launch-moral-vacuum/
The Sunday Times tax list is a full rundown of the top 50 taxpayers in 2017/18
Top was Stephen Rubin, owner of JD Sports and liable for £181.6 million last year

Sir James Dyson was third on the list paying £127.8 million


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 02:14 PM

Americans pronounce everything wrong! ;-) :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 01:50 PM

In case you did not know the pronunciation of Brexit in the US is Breg zit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 12:38 PM

A review of the new Dyson model - the 'Moral Vacuum'...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 11:22 AM

A rough translation is that they ask to be elected by promising the earth - we believe them and elect them - they totally ignore all the promises they made and work for the wealthy for five years - then the cycle is repeated ad-infinitum
It may be called democracy but in fact it is 'democratic dictatorship'
We have what rights they care to give us, no more
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 09:31 AM

"I will rephrase the question. Those of you who are still brexiters, why do you still personally believe that UK nationals, including myself should not be entitled to freedom of movement and the benefits of the customs union"

As a British subject you are only entitled to such freedoms as the crown allows you. No more. No Less


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 09:06 AM

"I will rephrase the question. Those of you who are still brexiters, why do you still personally believe that UK nationals, including myself should not be entitled to freedom of movement and the benefits of the customs union"
Hope that's not addressed to me - I'm for staying, not only on political principles, but over the last few wees, as Brits, we've been running around like blue-arsed flies trying to find out if Lemming Britain's actions will effect our living in Ireland
If it's going to effect us, how is it going to effect the several million brits living in Europe?
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 08:57 AM

Exaggeration or not, this is how the situation is being reported.
I would be extremely disappointed if government did notPLAN for all sorts of eventualities. to highlight such planning is project fear.
I am sure various other scenarios are planned for that would horrify you, had you knowledge of them. But unlike biblical terminology, there is no guarantee that It shall come to pass

Again, a RIGHT, not the gift of an individual government which can be removed or have conditions attached to it at its whim.
Totally incorrect!
Until recently(relatively) your passport addressed you as a subject, not a citizen. The status today is both
subject or citizen
Should anyone wish to test it I amsure conscription would very forcefully demonstrate who is entitled to what.

So that's the sovereignty and the control-of-money-and-borders waffle dispatched. Next..
Whilst in the EU we abide by laws and regulations (a small minority of the ones that govern us,


As usual not a shred of evidence to support your assertions.


http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2012/06/13/europeanization-of-public-policy/

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36473105


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 08:24 AM

"Farage rather than garage of course. Before the people with only enough wit to use spelling mistakes as arguments jump on me."

Farridge, Farardsh, Garridge, garardsh, let's call the whole thing off!

Please?


(Sorry, this is no time for levity...)


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