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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Nigel Parsons 15 Dec 19 - 06:27 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Dec 19 - 06:04 PM
Dave the Gnome 15 Dec 19 - 05:45 PM
Nigel Parsons 15 Dec 19 - 01:34 PM
peteaberdeen 15 Dec 19 - 12:40 PM
Dave the Gnome 15 Dec 19 - 11:45 AM
Iains 15 Dec 19 - 11:36 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Dec 19 - 10:59 AM
peteaberdeen 15 Dec 19 - 10:35 AM
Iains 15 Dec 19 - 10:03 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Dec 19 - 09:12 AM
Iains 15 Dec 19 - 08:11 AM
Nigel Parsons 14 Dec 19 - 02:18 PM
DMcG 14 Dec 19 - 11:16 AM
DMcG 14 Dec 19 - 11:09 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Dec 19 - 11:07 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Dec 19 - 10:56 AM
Raggytash 14 Dec 19 - 10:33 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Dec 19 - 10:13 AM
Iains 14 Dec 19 - 09:47 AM
Iains 14 Dec 19 - 04:57 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Dec 19 - 04:55 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Dec 19 - 04:44 AM
DMcG 14 Dec 19 - 04:38 AM
Iains 14 Dec 19 - 03:07 AM
Nigel Parsons 13 Dec 19 - 08:24 PM
Iains 13 Dec 19 - 04:43 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Dec 19 - 03:34 PM
DMcG 13 Dec 19 - 01:57 PM
Nigel Parsons 13 Dec 19 - 11:59 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Dec 19 - 11:29 AM
Iains 13 Dec 19 - 10:56 AM
Nigel Parsons 13 Dec 19 - 09:57 AM
Backwoodsman 13 Dec 19 - 07:37 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Dec 19 - 06:48 AM
DMcG 13 Dec 19 - 06:22 AM
Raggytash 13 Dec 19 - 06:08 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Dec 19 - 06:02 AM
Nigel Parsons 13 Dec 19 - 05:44 AM
Iains 14 Nov 19 - 07:13 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Nov 19 - 03:21 AM
Iains 12 Nov 19 - 09:31 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Nov 19 - 04:30 AM
Iains 12 Nov 19 - 04:06 AM
Iains 10 Nov 19 - 03:21 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Nov 19 - 02:44 PM
DMcG 07 Nov 19 - 02:07 PM
Nigel Parsons 07 Nov 19 - 01:58 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Nov 19 - 01:50 PM
Iains 07 Nov 19 - 01:23 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 06:27 PM

Dave, you went on to say: That would have made for some interesting conversations with the right.wing brexiteers on here!

I think most of the Brexiteers on here have been quite clear that the Single Market, in and of itself, was not necessarily a bad thing. The problem we saw (and continued to foresee) was the steady mission creep toward the centralised control of the whole European area.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 06:04 PM

"iain, please could you stop using terms like 'retarded and leftard'? i'm sure you have many other ways you can be abusive and spiteful without referring to people with different abilities to yourself.

sorry everyone, i can usually ignore this stuff but that really bugs me, is that why you do it iain? maybe it is useless to appeal to your better nature but i'll give it one more go..."

I wouldn't bother, Pete. He uses the term retarded and similar but he's not referring to people different to himself. He is actually referring to himself. Recognise that here we have a man (well, he uses a man's name but who knows?) who is a right-wing plant (notice that he never denies this, because he can't) and who is clearly mentally ill. The mods can't deal with him because he posts from more than one IP address. Just don't bother with him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 05:45 PM

The section you highlighted, Nigel, contains the phrase "the perceived power grab". I'm sure you will note the word "perceived". Not a real power grab. Nothing actually happening. Just perceived. Exactly the same as it is now. You will also note that I said she was a devotee of the single market. Which is exactly what the article said. So just what is your point?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 01:34 PM

Margaret Thatcher was a big fan of the EU single market.
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/thatcher-papers-for-1988-reveal-her-deep-enthusiasm-for-the-single-market
That would have made for some interesting conversations with the right.wing brexiteers on here!


I started reading it. While the headline seems to support your contention, the opening paragraphs make it clear that Margaret Thatcher was a fan of the EU as it then was, not the EU it would become:

Her speechwriting files for Bruges, including drafts and contributions from outsiders, are among more than 40,000 pages of Lady Thatcher’s papers for the year 1988 being opened to the public at Churchill College from Monday.
They show that rather than acting as a call-to-arms for Eurosceptics and attacking the principles behind the single market – of which Thatcher was something of a devotee – her speech was more concerned with the perceived power grab by European Commission chief Jacques Delors, and a possible move to a more ‘federal’ European ‘super-state’.
Historian Chris Collins of the Margaret Thatcher Foundation, the only person to date to have read all 40,000 pages of material being released, said: “She wanted her speech to be about direction, rather than point scoring – and she edges back from attacking the Commission, approaching it in a more intellectual style.
“I know she was uncomfortable about the venue, but we are very lucky in that few of her speeches remain in such a complete form as this.
“When you read her papers for 1988, you see her sheer level of enthusiasm for the single market. She goes up hill and down dale with deep enthusiasm because this is practical Europe, this is how it works together. The role of speechwriter Hugh Thomas – a committed Europhile – is also crucial to consider when looking at this speech from a historical perspective.”

The section in bold illustrates exactly my point.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 12:40 PM

one of the things about my job is that disabled people are never abisive, never sarcastic, never cruel and will take people as they find them. they can teach us many things about how to deal with each other.

iain, please could you stop using terms like 'retarded and leftard'? i'm sure you have many other ways you can be abusive and spiteful without referring to people with different abilities to yourself.

sorry everyone, i can usually ignore this stuff but that really bugs me, is that why you do it iain? maybe it is useless to appeal to your better nature but i'll give it one more go


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 11:45 AM

And of course the more they are ignored the more desperate their cries for attention get, Pete :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 11:36 AM

(by the way - that 'leftard' word is ugly and offensive

Not near as offensive as being called a fuckwit or racist or mentally deficient. and by the way it is leftards protesting in the streets because they cannot accept a democratic vote. That is even more offensive.

Ignoring them is far more satisfying and makes life a lot pleasanter.

Very true. Now we have had an election and proved even to the most retarded that leave has won by an overwhelming majority.

Compo got such a drubbing his arse cheeks outshine Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer.
Now you all can squeam and squeam to no avail. How very frustrating
for you. Luvvin it!



Boris Johnson has ordered his aides to launch an urgent review into decriminalising the BBC license fee in the wake of his election triumph.
The Telegraph

Sky paid the poison dwarf 60k for a program watched by 46000 people

This election is the gift that just keeps giving!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 10:59 AM

I fully agree, Pete, but reason does not work with some people. You can chose to ignore them or pay them back with the kind of abuse they use. I used to do the latter but it is wearying and, as you say, gets you nowhere. Ignoring them is far more satisfying and makes life a lot pleasanter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 10:35 AM

aye, right. in my life - in the workington constituency- many of my friends are upset and worried about the future. at work some have been very vocally ukip and brexitty and i've learned to keep quiet to avoid arguments (it's tiring, i don't like anuse and it gets us nowhere) personally, i am not particularly bothered about brexit but am always anti-tory as i worry about public services (i work supporting disabled people in west cumbria) sorry, i'm getting distracted. anyway - some people are upset and worried, some will be pleased at a rejuvenated tory government. but as ever, a majority of people aren't particularly bothered and mistrust or dislike all politicians. calling any group 'intolerant, bigoted, ugly etc....' doesn't do anyone any good. surely we all come across people in all walks of life who may have different views but we would never label an individual in this way. of course it is a lot easier to see the world in black and white if our only relationship is with a computer screen. or the daily heil. (by the way - that 'leftard' word is ugly and offensive


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 10:03 AM

A perfect summary: The daily Wail has the rights of it, not the shoutie leftards on this forum.
"Britain’s divide isn’t North v South or red v blue. It’s between the ugly intolerant Left and the rest of us
The real chasm which has arisen is between a Conservative party that committed itself to fulfilling the will of the people, and two Left-wing parties which had devoted the past three-and-a-half years to subverting it.

It is a divide between people who have real-world concerns and those focused on niche and barely significant ones. It is a divide between those who worry about the way they are governed, how the nation will fare and how high immigration should be and those who hector them as backwards or bigoted for even noticing such things.

How, you might ask, have we reached such a state? There is a clue in the Labour Party’s dysfunctional reaction to its catastrophic defeat on Thursday.

Even after the Conservatives won in a near-landslide, the Leftist automatons that run the party are choosing to learn nothing.

They are not using this time for self-reflection or to work out how they approach this new division. Instead, they’re stuck on repeat – at increasing volume."
and if further proof is needed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7793275/DOUGLAS-MURRAY-Britains-divide-ugly-intolerant-Left-rest-us.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 09:12 AM

Margaret Thatcher was a big fan of the EU single market.

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/thatcher-papers-for-1988-reveal-her-deep-enthusiasm-for-the-single-market

That would have made for some interesting conversations with the right.wing brexiteers on here!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 08:11 AM

"McDonnell said there needed to be a debate about how “[Corbyn] – who I think is one of the most principled, honest, sincere, committed, anti-racist politicians – [was] demonised by a smear campaign”.

I trust you jest!
1)https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/corbyn-condemned-for-supporting-those-convicted-of-1994-terror-attacks-in-london-1.468429

2)https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/03/jeremy-corbyn-has-a-soft-spot-for-extremists-ira-hamas-hezbollah-britain-labour/


Plenty more of the same ilk. Corbyn is a thoroughly nasty piece of work. To coin a backward man phrase: it is only the f**kwits on the left posting here that would ever contemplate voting for the racist marxist fool. Still we do not have to worry about labour for many moons. They have crashed and burnt bigtime.

As Hurree Jamset Ram Singh of the remove would say:
"The joyfulness is terrific"


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 02:18 PM

As Backwoodsman has posted the same copy'n'paste' argument here as elsewhere, I'll copy my response as well:

Backwoodsman: Just to correct a couple of comments in your copy/paste:

One of the bast pieces I’ve read, in the aftermath of the GE....

”So congratulations if you wanted Boris Johnson as pm.

Please don’t celebrate too much though as you have work to do. You see us remoaners have spent three and a half years now telling you brexit was wrong but we’ve finally and completely lost. There’s pretty much nothing we can do now to stop it.

So, it’s over to you leavers. You need to get yourselves into gear to make it work. We need to see some of these benefits you’ve been able to see yet unable to properly articulate since 2016.

I hope you don’t mind but I’ve taken the liberty of writing a to do list for you.

1. Get brexit done please. When we say done we mean as promised so we’ll be looking for trade deals with the EU, Japan, Australia and Canada etc. In fact there’s about 40 deals covering 70 countries that need to be done please. Also with the US that doesn’t involve the nhs or chlorine. We want what you promised us. That was that we’d be no worse off than when we were an EU member. You need to crack on as this was promised by the end of Jan. You have seven weeks.
I expect to see us out of the EU by the end of January, in fact, this has been promised. There will still be negotiations needed to confirm our ongoing trading position with the EU

2. The nhs. We want the cash that was promised please. £350 million per week is about 72000 nurses so please get recruiting. This is important.
£350 million was not promised. This has been explained before. The comment on the bus listed what we pay to EU each week, and suggested we could spend it better, with more being paid to NHS. Nowhere did it claim that the whole amount would go to the NHS.
Oh, and £350,000,000 per week equating to 72,000 nurses? This means nurses are paid over £4,000 per week. Figures worthy of Diane Abbott


3. Scotland. Ok so these guys were promised they would remain in the EU if they remained in the UK. They’re pretty pissed. In fact they’ve voted almost exclusively for the SNP so they might want to leave. Equally you said the UK wouldn’t split so you’ll need to both grant Scotland its independence and keep it as part of the United Kingdom. Good luck squaring this circle. NB. This is urgent.
No. Scotland were not promised that they would remain in the EU if we went for Brexit. They were told that if they went for independence (at that time) they would no longer be part of the UK, and so would lose their membership of the EU. If they were no longer part of UK then they would no longer be part of EU. If they remained part of UK then they would remain part of EU as long as the rest of UK did. This may be difficult to understand, but please try.

4. Northern Ireland. Oooookay then. You’ve really buggered this one up. There’s a chance they could look to reunify with the republic now because they didn’t want to brexit. Regardless you’ve caused instability there where we and they can least afford it. NB. This is also urgent.
There have always been calls in Ireland for re-unification. Whether Brexit makes those calls stronger is debatable.

5. The economy. Johnson keeps talking about unleashing the potential of the country. We need to see this soon if possible. We don’t want to see the downturn that “project fear” predicted. We don’t want to be poorer. We don’t want to lose out.
The pound has already rallied, and the FOOTSIE 250 has also seen improvements. It seems the financial industries can see benefits which you cannot.

6. You’ll also need to “bring the country back together”. This might be tricky as a lot of people seem to be really really angry with each other.
If Labour had won, and if they had proved to be a Remain party (rather than sitting on the fence) there would still have been a need to "bring the country back together". So this is a rather pointless point

That’s as far as I’ve got. Should keep you busy. So go and get all british about things. Roll up your sleeves, pull your socks up, dig deep and deliver what you promised.

And remember if you fail to deliver any if this it’s on you, brexit and Tory voters. You wanted this so badly and now you have it. We honestly hope we’re wrong and that you can make a success of this but if you can’t then we will forever tell you that we told you so.”


Next time, try and come up with your own arguments, rather than some unattributed copy'n'paste.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 11:16 AM

The decision to leave will be confirmed.

Has been, I should have said. I know how upset Nigel gets about tenses!


(Yes, I know more people voted for a party which promised a second referendum. But that's how our crazy voting system works.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 11:09 AM

While the signing of the Withdrawal Agreement looks certain (bar something like the ERG refusing because it is too soft for their tastes, for example), we need to remember that this does not address anything about a lot of important matters such as trade, which is actually a much tougher battle than the WAB. For example, how to resolve the different objectives of the EU and the US and sign new trade deals with both will still need sorting out. The decision to leave will be confirmed. The destination has not been.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 11:07 AM

I’ve also posted this on the GE thread. It’s the best piece I’ve seen since the election...

”So congratulations if you wanted Boris Johnson as pm.

Please don’t celebrate too much though as you have work to do. You see us remoaners have spent three and a half years now telling you brexit was wrong but we’ve finally and completely lost. There’s pretty much nothing we can do now to stop it.

So, it’s over to you leavers. You need to get yourselves into gear to make it work. We need to see some of these benefits you’ve been able to see yet unable to properly articulate since 2016.

I hope you don’t mind but I’ve taken the liberty of writing a to do list for you.

1. Get brexit done please. When we say done we mean as promised so we’ll be looking for trade deals with the EU, Japan, Australia and Canada etc. In fact there’s about 40 deals covering 70 countries that need to be done please. Also with the US that doesn’t involve the nhs or chlorine. We want what you promised us. That was that we’d be no worse off than when we were an EU member. You need to crack on as this was promised by the end of Jan. You have seven weeks.

2. The nhs. We want the cash that was promised please. £350 million per week is about 72000 nurses so please get recruiting. This is important.

3. Scotland. Ok so these guys were promised they would remain in the EU if they remained in the UK. They’re pretty pissed. In fact they’ve voted almost exclusively for the SNP so they might want to leave. Equally you said the UK wouldn’t split so you’ll need to both grant Scotland its independence and keep it as part of the United Kingdom. Good luck squaring this circle. NB. This is urgent.

4. Northern Ireland. Oooookay then. You’ve really buggered this one up. There’s a chance they could look to reunify with the republic now because they didn’t want to brexit. Regardless you’ve caused instability there where we and they can least afford it. NB. This is also urgent.

5. The economy. Johnson keeps talking about unleashing the potential of the country. We need to see this soon if possible. We don’t want to see the downturn that “project fear” predicted. We don’t want to be poorer. We don’t want to lose out.

6. You’ll also need to “bring the country back together”. This might be tricky as a lot of people seem to be really really angry with each other.

That’s as far as I’ve got. Should keep you busy. So go and get all british about things. Roll up your sleeves, pull your socks up, dig deep and deliver what you promised.

And remember if you fail to deliver any if this it’s on you, brexit and Tory voters. You wanted this so badly and now you have it. We honestly hope we’re wrong and that you can make a success of this but if you can’t then we will forever tell you that we told you so.”


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 10:56 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 10:33 AM

"McDonnell said there needed to be a debate about how “[Corbyn] – who I think is one of the most principled, honest, sincere, committed, anti-racist politicians – [was] demonised by a smear campaign”.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 10:13 AM

And....4400


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 09:47 AM

"John McDonnell QUITS as civil war erupts over direction Party should take: Labour MPs and union baron Len McLuskey gun for 'anti-Western' Jeremy Corbyn as ousted 'Red Wall' MP says leader was 'poison on doorsteps'"

What happy little chappies - a joy to watch!

Meanwhile for the valiant Brexiteers:

Adeste fideles laeti triumphantes


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 04:57 AM

Oh Dear! a hangover perhaps?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 04:55 AM

As I said to John earlier, Steve. You know the drill!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 04:44 AM

"Now shaw has put the prosecco bottle away for the night and finished his rant..."

I posted my "rant" whilst stone-cold sober. If you have evidence to the contrary, let's be having it. Otherwise, just shut your ugly mouth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 04:38 AM

OK, so I changed the tense. I care more about the content.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 03:07 AM

Now shaw has put the prosecco bottle away for the night and finished his rant, here is an article from the guardian all about "waycism"

Jeremy Corbyn of having “failed the test of leadership” over his handling of antisemitism complaints within the party.

Condemnation from within the ranks!
Rather hard to deny.
But with a weak leader due for the compost heap what else can be expected?

Meanwhile Boris's bright star is in the ascendancy. Happy,happy days!
Now we can look forward to the overhaul of the BBC
the fixed term parliament act
The supreme court(hopefully restoring the judicial functions of the Lord Chancellor)
Delivery of brexit(deal or no deal) But the EU will now have to act seriously - playtime is over, and no deal will hurt many in the EU, especially Germany.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 08:24 PM

From: DMcG - PM
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 01:57 PM

We (the UK) are leaving the EU by the end of January. After that we will not be negotiating as supplicants.

That is a matter of opinion, of course. You could as easily say we had more power and influence before we finally sign the withdrawal agreement, but will be supplicants to get a good deal afterwards.

No, I could not say that. I try to keep the tenses of my arguments consistent.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 04:43 PM

The racism of brexiteers (the main driver of their thinking) will come back to bite them big-time.! Looks like reality bit you lefties and now the whining starts

What a stunning day this has been.

I have been waiting all day for shaw's contribution.

HA HA HA HA HA HA..........................................

Looks like all your lording it over brexiteers for the last three years has accomplished nowt, and even better you have been proved wrong(or full of shit).

By the way it is Labour undergoing an investigation by the Equality and Human rights Commission for endemic racism.
We brexiteers are pure as driven snow.
Calling us all racists merely demonstrates the accuracy of labeling you a leftard. As you have everything back to front and upside down I suggest you take your head out of your arse, wake up and smell the coffee. Then you can apologize to the majority of the population that used their heads to vote instead of ideology.
Labour is totally buggered for a generation at least! GOOD!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 03:34 PM

"getting Brexit done."

Quite frankly, if you are saying this you are brain-dead. Brexit will not be "done" within ten years, possibly longer. The racism of brexiteers (the main driver of their thinking) will come back to bite them big-time. And there is absolutely no guarantee of a trade deal by Johnson's promised deadline. In fact, if he hasn't gone crawling to the EU for an extension within six or seven months I'll eat my hat.

One more thing. The appalling stats for A&E waiting times, the worst ever, and a national disgrace caused solely by Tory misrule, should have been released yesterday. Some "watchdog" or other forced a delay until today because "things like that shouldn't be released on polling day." Well I bloody well think they absolutely should be. In a democracy we should have all legitimate information to hand before we vote. It wouldn't have made much difference because parties aren't allowed to make hay on polling day, but a very important principle of democracy was breached there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 01:57 PM

We (the UK) are leaving the EU by the end of January. After that we will not be negotiating as supplicants.

That is a matter of opinion, of course. You could as easily say we had more power and influence before we finally sign the withdrawal agreement, but will be supplicants to get a good deal afterwards. It is a matter of belief which party needs a trade deal more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 11:59 AM

Yes, that is the way negotiations should work. But the EU seem to work on the basis of "tell us what you want, and we'll tell you why you can't have it". Which means that when the UK puts a proposal on the table the EU can choose whether to accept it, or to have the UK leave with no deal.
We (the UK) are leaving the EU by the end of January. After that we will not be negotiating as supplicants.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 11:29 AM

No-deal will only be needed if the EU prove unwilling to agree suitable terms

You are aware that negotiations are a two way thing aren't you, Nigel? Surely that should read "if the EU and UK cannot agree suitable terms".


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 10:56 AM

We leave, deal or no deal.
Democracy rules OK!!!!!!!

Oh dear the lefties don't like getting thrashed do they?
The polls have been pointing out the obvious for a long time.
People do not like being lectured, hectored, pissed on, or being called stupid.

Labour learnt the obvious too late! Oh what a joyful day this is.
All the strutting by the lefties on this forum has been to no avail

As the guardian said not so many moons ago:

'I've never known voters be so promiscuous': the pollsters .

Hilarious!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 09:57 AM

At least we will leave with a deal. Question is how long will it take?
According to Boris, the end of 2020. But it is an assumption that "we will leave with a deal". Boris says that that is what he wants, and I believe him. But no-deal (WTO terms) remains on the table, at the least as a bargaining chip.
No-deal will only be needed if the EU prove unwilling to agree suitable terms, (within the timescale) but the possibility of no-deal might encourage them to be more reasonable.
People will remember the EU saying that when Boris took over there could be no re-negotiation of Mrs May's deal. Within 3 months there was a new deal on the table. Boris clearly knows more about negotiating than Mrs May did, and possible more than the EU team. He says we will leave by the end of 2020 (preferably with a deal) and I believe him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 07:37 AM

The one good thing to come from the election omnishambles is the neutralisation of the ERG, although I’m sure they will continue to try to get a Brexit crash-out. The problem is that, with a compulsive liar like Johnson, it’s impossible to know what his real intentions are - this particular ‘white man speak with forked tongue’.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 06:48 AM

As Boris no longer needs the ERG's support I am not sure they will continue to wield any influence. We shall see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 06:22 AM

I am not sure we will leave with a deal. on 1st July they have to ask more time to go beyond 2020. Given Johnson's campaign, plus a hard line element and arguably over confidence, I am fairly certain they will decide against and stick to the Dec 2020 date. Whether a deal of any kind or we leave with no deal at that point (as some ERG member claim they were promised) can be agreed in that time remains to be seen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 06:08 AM

"At least we will leave with a deal. Question is how long will it take?"

I wonder how that deal will go down in Northern Ireland where the DUP may feel they've been sold down the river.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 06:02 AM

At least we will leave with a deal. Question is how long will it take?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 05:44 AM

Finally, a parliament committed to getting Brexit done. All those standing for the Conservative Party have already pledged to vote for Boris' deal, and they hold the majority of the seats.

Onward and upward! (and 'outward')


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 07:13 AM

The telegraph:
Tories more popular among working class than rich, new general election poll shows
Evening Standard
UK opinion polls: Conservative Party to win more support from working class voters than upper class this election
Guido Fawkes
New polling from YouGov shows a twenty point lead for the Conservatives amongst C2DE (working-class) voters

The gruniard
'I've never known voters be so promiscuous': the pollsters .

Hilarious!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 03:21 AM

More bad news for the Brexit-Bunch as the UK faces a cliff-edge on trade...

” By compulsively declaring that he will get Brexit done, the prime minister is desperately and dangerously diverting attention from the harm that Brexit will do.”

Ah well, at least we’ll have ‘Taken are cuntry back’, and....unicorns!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 09:31 AM

Compo behind the curve as usual!
Corbyn has just called on the government to activate the Bellwin scheme to provide financial support to communities affected by flooding. The Bellwin formula makes funding available immediately to local authorities, such as those dealing with flooding in the Midlands and Yorkshire. An obviously good idea from Jeremy Corbyn. Which is probably why the Prime Minister activated it 3 days ago…
As one more polite commentator says:
"Scared chickens watching their increasingly shrinking poll numbers, frantically running around trying to politicise any disaster for their own political ends. Completely lacking in competence and morals."

Seems a fair summary to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 04:30 AM

Talking of ‘Pantomime Season’ - our erstwhile, would-be-again PM apparently off his tits and talking even more bollocks than usual.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 04:06 AM

And now for something completely different.
Let the infighting commence! Enjoy!


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/11/unite-claims-labours-anna-turley-is-unfit-to-be-an-mp-court-hears

The pantomime season is in full swing!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 03:21 AM

The economy is in tatters

Best not talk about Germany then!
UK projected growth 1.3%(the same as France)
Germany 0.4%
Italy 0.1%
Oh look! Labour antisemitism!
In May, the Equality and Human Rights Commission announced an inquiry into whether Labour had "unlawfully discriminated against, harassed or victimised people because they are Jewish".
Oct 12, 2019 - Members of Labour's ruling executive have privately voiced fears that the Labour Party risks bankruptcy over the antisemitism investigation.
Oh Look! Why would they be saying that do you think?

Naughty naughty

even more naughty naughty

Tsk tsk

Everything is perfectly healthy and normal here in Denial Land.”
? Jim Butcher


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 02:44 PM

Boris is telling lies

Oh look! Labour antisemitism!

The economy is in tatters

Oh look! Labour antisemitism!

People are dying because of unnecessary austerity

Oh look! Labour antisemitism!

Brexit is a complete and utter shambles

Oh look! Labour antisemitism!

Ever feel like you are stuck in a loop?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 02:07 PM

And you are usually so insistent on accuracy, Nigel! Jim did not comment on whether rape was acceptable to conservatives. He remarked that interfering in a rape trial seems to be. That's different, I think you will agree.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 01:58 PM

No, rape is not acceptable (to Conservatives). See my comments Here


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 01:50 PM

Seems that interfering with a rape trial is ok with the Tories - to be expected with GROPEY BORIS in charge I suppose
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 01:23 PM

Meanwhile civil war within the Labour ranks. Hilarious!


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