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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Iains 25 May 19 - 02:54 AM
DMcG 25 May 19 - 02:21 AM
SPB-Cooperator 24 May 19 - 04:38 PM
Donuel 24 May 19 - 12:55 PM
DMcG 24 May 19 - 09:56 AM
Jim Carroll 24 May 19 - 08:14 AM
Backwoodsman 24 May 19 - 07:29 AM
Backwoodsman 24 May 19 - 07:10 AM
Iains 24 May 19 - 05:27 AM
Iains 24 May 19 - 04:43 AM
Jim Carroll 24 May 19 - 03:28 AM
Dave the Gnome 24 May 19 - 03:02 AM
Jim Carroll 24 May 19 - 02:50 AM
DMcG 24 May 19 - 02:17 AM
Backwoodsman 24 May 19 - 02:07 AM
Raggytash 23 May 19 - 06:59 PM
Steve Shaw 23 May 19 - 05:21 PM
Steve Shaw 23 May 19 - 03:58 PM
David Carter (UK) 23 May 19 - 03:28 PM
Iains 23 May 19 - 02:05 PM
Backwoodsman 23 May 19 - 01:52 PM
Iains 23 May 19 - 01:47 PM
David Carter (UK) 23 May 19 - 01:46 PM
Steve Shaw 23 May 19 - 01:44 PM
David Carter (UK) 23 May 19 - 12:47 PM
Backwoodsman 23 May 19 - 12:29 PM
Rain Dog 23 May 19 - 11:54 AM
Backwoodsman 23 May 19 - 11:27 AM
Raggytash 23 May 19 - 11:13 AM
Backwoodsman 23 May 19 - 08:44 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 May 19 - 08:12 AM
Backwoodsman 23 May 19 - 07:49 AM
Backwoodsman 23 May 19 - 07:30 AM
Jim Carroll 23 May 19 - 06:16 AM
DMcG 23 May 19 - 04:20 AM
Jim Carroll 23 May 19 - 04:19 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 May 19 - 04:11 AM
Iains 23 May 19 - 03:50 AM
Iains 23 May 19 - 03:43 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 May 19 - 03:40 AM
DMcG 23 May 19 - 03:23 AM
Backwoodsman 23 May 19 - 03:08 AM
Jim Carroll 23 May 19 - 02:59 AM
DMcG 23 May 19 - 02:51 AM
Steve Shaw 22 May 19 - 08:08 PM
Backwoodsman 22 May 19 - 05:25 PM
DMcG 22 May 19 - 05:17 PM
Backwoodsman 22 May 19 - 05:13 PM
Nigel Parsons 22 May 19 - 05:05 PM
Raggytash 22 May 19 - 04:54 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 25 May 19 - 02:54 AM

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/elections-and-referendums


Are government reports subject to censorship on mudcat?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 25 May 19 - 02:21 AM

I read an article yesterday which I cannot now find, which is annoying. It was, if I remember correctly, from the electoral commission explaining, but in no way excusing, why so many EU nationals here and abroad were excluded. In short, it was because administratively an EU election is very different to a local or general election, so they can't just replicate what they do for other elections. But because May refused to admit the elections were happening no funds were released to do the work, which led to a lot of stuff being done under extreme pressure with no time for proper consideration.

The author was absolutely straight that it was not good enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 May 19 - 04:38 PM

My feet and legs are almost recovered from another polling day. I am disgusted that May did not confirm the European election a month or two earlier, I have yet to see figures for the number of EU voters domiciled in the UK did not have their voting rights paperwork confirmed by their local authorities - could run to a five or 6 figure number.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 May 19 - 12:55 PM

It all ends in tears.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 May 19 - 09:56 AM

EU says the agreement is still closed and the parliamentary arithmetic is unaltered.


What is the magic phrase again? Ah, yes, nothing has changed.

Of course, a new leader may be more willing to bring no-deal to the house. But whatever they may say, if they have even a slight doubt that to get the promised land there is a lot of pain to go through, few will want to get the blame for the pain...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 19 - 08:14 AM

As bad as May is, it's odds on that the next one will be worse
The gloating over her going by the Pen pusher (pun intended) and no doubt from those who forced her resignation is an indication of how low her party has sunk at a time when Britain needs leadership
A public dog-fight rather than a government
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 May 19 - 07:29 AM

Wonder who the DUP will choose to be the next Tory leader and PM? Methinks I foresee another huge bung going their way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 May 19 - 07:10 AM

Mrs. Backwoodsperson has, very fortunately, just been offered a job in Rotterdam. We are very tempted....


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 May 19 - 05:27 AM

PM given the boot. Good!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 May 19 - 04:43 AM

Even the Guardian bows to reality:

'Swept up on a tide': disaffected voters flock to Brexit party across north-west


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/24/disaffected-voters-boost-brexit-party-across-north-west


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 19 - 03:28 AM

Fingers Crossed
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 May 19 - 03:02 AM

Green party making good headway in Germany. Looks like some people have learned the lessons of the past.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 19 - 02:50 AM

Labour party looks like front runner in Holland
Wilder's fascists lost three of its four seats
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 May 19 - 02:17 AM

There was a comment, which I paraphrase as a shrug of the shoulders and 'mistakes happen'. Certainly a long way short of an insistence on everyone's right to democratic representation.

Not exactly a defence I would like to rely on if this potential case comes to anything: UK government may face court action after EU citizens denied vote.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 May 19 - 02:07 AM

Raggy, I seem to recall that comments were made but, as is so often the case, one or more of the posters resorted to abuse and the post(s) were removed by the Mods.

Apologies if I’m mistaken - I’ve read a lot of ‘stuff’ about this issue over the past 24 hours so I might be confusing this forum with other sources.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 May 19 - 06:59 PM

So, several hours have passed and not one of our resident Brexiteers have commented on the disgrace that Europeans resident in the UK are being denied the opportunity to vote in a most important event.

I can't help but think this may be because those people MAY vote remain.

Those Brexiteers who rattle on about Democracy, who castigate some of us who would prefer a second referendum, those of us who   acknowledge that almost 2 millions people (who will be most affected by any decision) did not, and will not, have a say in the matter because they were not old enough 3 years ago to have a vote.

Democracy................ my a***!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 19 - 05:21 PM

That was the vicar who said that, not Roy!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 19 - 03:58 PM

He was a very earthy sort of chap, David. He actually shared my surname, though we weren't related, so there's a clue. He was a big mate of Roy Lancaster, another great bloke who started out working in the park next to my school in Bolton. On one occasion by the canal in Radcliffe. when I was but a callow and youthful botanist, he espied me looking up a plant in an identification guide. "What are you doing?" he demanded. "Er, just looking this up...." "Well chuck bloody book away. You'll never learn owt from a book!"

He was right!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 23 May 19 - 03:28 PM

Ah well Steve, thats a Vicar, who will be anticipating an even larger move.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 May 19 - 02:05 PM

Those are contract workers, people who form an isolated expatriate community.
Some are, some are not.

they are often extremely reactionary, especially towards the culture of the country in which they work.

Try being reactionary in the Middle East, Parts of Africa and SE Asia and you can share a very dodgy jail cell.

You obviously only traveled in touristy places in more "enlightened" parts of the world.

Take it from me, if you are in Dodge City you keep your mouth shut, and your opinions to yourself. Or suffer the consequences!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 May 19 - 01:52 PM

Be careful what you wish for...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 May 19 - 01:47 PM

It was rumoured the 22 committee would shift the PM out of downing Street by Friday. The latest update is that it will probably require 22 SAS.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 23 May 19 - 01:46 PM

Those are contract workers, people who form an isolated expatriate community. I have worked with those too and they are often extremely reactionary, especially towards the culture of the country in which they work. I am talking about people who decide to move to, live in, and become part of, a different culture.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 19 - 01:44 PM

Well one of the most broad-minded and balanced people I ever met was a old vicar and botanist from Oldham who hardly ever left Lancashire (as was), though I did climb Penyghent with him once when he was 77 to find the purple saxifrage. So you never can tell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 23 May 19 - 12:47 PM

Thats not balance. EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU are the same kind of people, people who are open to immersing themselves in other cultures, people who have used freedom of movement to improve their lives. People who think for themselves. And thus more likely to vote for progressive parties rather than the reactionary forces of the right.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 May 19 - 12:29 PM

Just in case any of the Bumpkins have a couple of brain-cells that actually work, here’s something for them to get their daft heads around...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 May 19 - 11:54 AM

'complete lack of democracy.'

At least they are even handed about it.

Expats fear postal votes will not count


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 May 19 - 11:27 AM

Here you go, Raggy...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 May 19 - 11:13 AM

Meanwhile back to Brexit. It would seem that European residents in the UK are being denied the right to vote in the EU elections because of administration errors.

I wonder what our resident Brexiteers have to say about this complete lack of democracy.

Could someone please link to the Guardian article entitled 'EU Citizens in UK complain of being denied right to vote'


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 May 19 - 08:44 AM

What I find ludicrous is that, pre-Referendum, simple-minded people believed everything Farage told them, and voted for what he stood for - when, in fact, he hadn’t a clue how to bring Brexit about, no plan whatsoever. So he and his cronies did their ‘Run For The Hills’ routine and left the rest of us with Mayhem.

Now here he is again, still no clue, no plan, nothing - and the bumpkins are queueing up to vote his way again!

What was it Einstein said about insanity?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 19 - 08:12 AM

BWM - :-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 May 19 - 07:49 AM

And Jonathan Pie has got the likes of Haddock-Face, and UKIP with their new pin-up boy, Tommy Robinson, weighed up, hasn’t he?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 May 19 - 07:30 AM

HIGNFY seem to have their finger on the pulse!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 19 - 06:16 AM

It's already Europe's fault Mac - it used to be lazy workers and bad management
I hava little doubt there'll be another one along in a minute to confirm that
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 23 May 19 - 04:20 AM

I am sure someone will be along shortly to point out that the claim was that voting remain would end the steel industry. It did not claim voting leave would save it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 19 - 04:19 AM

If you gloat about Farage combining with LePen, (as you have) to take the European elections, you're stuck with it
The LePen family are notorious Fascists and are part of the rise of Neo-Fascism in Europe - not to be welcomed by anybody who cherishes democracy
Thanks to Brexit, Britain has its own racist problems to deal with - antisemitism is the last thing it needs, particularly at a time when the whole of British society has been weakened and divided by this insane, un-thought out leap in the dark
If you can't live with what you do, don't do it - simples
The post was deleted above the line - rightly - because you chose to bring arguments that were taking place here up there - maybe I shouldn't have responded to it - I'm delighted it has been removed (as was your posting which instigated the misplaced argument, by the way)
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesLet us remind ture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 19 - 04:11 AM

Let us remind everyone how good the nicotine stained toad is at predictions shall we?

Farage's tweet about the steel industry


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 May 19 - 03:50 AM

I wonder why the mods allowed this piece of garbage to remain?


Maybe you can ask your friend LePen to fly in a substitute Iains ?

"Polls show Le Pen's party, now named the National Rally, winning about 22-24 percent the election, a slight edge over the centrist alliance that includes Macron's party"
Hope the French Jews are packing their suitcases - 74,000 of them were sent to death camps last time the likes of LePen were in charge
Jim Carroll


Permitting "untouchables" destroys the credibility of the entire site and drives people away.

The post was deleted for pollution above the line yesterday. Why not below the line as well?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 May 19 - 03:43 AM

I am sure the MEP election results will be a font of joy to all!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 19 - 03:40 AM

Everyone but you understands what Raggytash is asking, Nigel. Almost every article, prediction, analysis and report indicates that leaving the EU will be bad for the UK. We are looking for anything that gives us hope that it will not be as bad as they all say. To date neither you nor any other brexiteer has been able to point us to any such good news.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 23 May 19 - 03:23 AM

There is a particularly funny article by Tom Peck, sketch writer for the Independent today. One of the gems:


"Even some of the nation's most senior news broadcasters have admitted that, if a prime minister resigns on an election day, when strict broadcasting rules are in place, they are not completely sure if they will even be allowed to mention it."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 May 19 - 03:08 AM

But, but, but...Jim... 70 million Turks, ‘Take Are Cuntry Back’, ‘easy’ trade deals, £350 million, unicorns! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 19 - 02:59 AM

"And, as has been said many times, the good news about Brexit cannot come until Brexit has been achieved."
That's not the way our system works Nigel
Everything, from industrial development to investment, depends entirely on planning in advance - Britain has had no game plan and was slated for not having one from the very beginning
There has been no alternative to being a member of the EU put into place or even discussed - irresponsible economic and political insanity from the start - like saying, "I'm going on holiday; I'll decide where to when I get there".
There has not even been a movement in the direction of future planning - on the contrary - the chaos of Brexit has systematically destroyed both industry and investment -
RATS DESERTING THE SINKING SHIP
NO PLANNING ON THIS
OR THIS
AND THIS IS WHAT THEY WILL BE RETURNING TO
CONFIRMED HERE

Wait and see - are you mad !!!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 23 May 19 - 02:51 AM

The Andrea Leadsom resignation is an interesting one. With May possibly going Friday or Monday, I can't see many people dashing forward to label themselves as the enabler of the legislation knowing an strong opponent of it is likely to get May's role. Fancy a job for a day or two that risks casting you into darkness for the rest of your political life?   On the other hand, the government can't continue without a means of formally introducing bills.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 May 19 - 08:08 PM

Brilliant work, mod(s). It's regrettable that you have to do it. Cheers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 May 19 - 05:25 PM

Bwaaaaaaaahh-ha-ha-haahh! About as much sense as any of the other BS the Brexshitters put out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 22 May 19 - 05:17 PM

I thought I would have a look at the leaflets that the various official and unofficial leave groups issued to see what was promised would happen as a result of voting leave. I thought this was especially good:

Relations will be friendlier after we vote leave.

After we VOTE leave, note. Not after we leave.

I wonder who thinks that has come about?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 May 19 - 05:13 PM

OK, O Nitpicking One, how about telling us what you’re hoping will be some of the benefits of Brexit? That’s not ‘predicting’ is it?

Come on - show us there’s something in there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 May 19 - 05:05 PM

Any good news about Brexit.

I am sorry to keep asking the question but to date it has not been answered.


And, as has been said many times, the good news about Brexit cannot come until Brexit has been achieved.
Until then, unlike remainers, I will not give forecasts of what may/may not happen.
We've all seen the failure of the pre-referendum prognostications of the remainers. Why should leavers try to match that level of incompetence?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 May 19 - 04:54 PM

Hmm ..............

Any good news about Brexit.

I am sorry to keep asking the question but to date it has not been answered.


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