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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Iains 14 Nov 19 - 07:13 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Nov 19 - 03:21 AM
Iains 12 Nov 19 - 09:31 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Nov 19 - 04:30 AM
Iains 12 Nov 19 - 04:06 AM
Iains 10 Nov 19 - 03:21 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Nov 19 - 02:44 PM
DMcG 07 Nov 19 - 02:07 PM
Nigel Parsons 07 Nov 19 - 01:58 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Nov 19 - 01:50 PM
Iains 07 Nov 19 - 01:23 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Nov 19 - 03:47 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Nov 19 - 07:29 PM
Iains 06 Nov 19 - 12:52 PM
peteaberdeen 05 Nov 19 - 07:12 PM
Raggytash 05 Nov 19 - 03:38 PM
DMcG 05 Nov 19 - 02:58 PM
Nigel Parsons 05 Nov 19 - 02:43 PM
DMcG 05 Nov 19 - 01:43 PM
DMcG 05 Nov 19 - 01:15 PM
Steve Shaw 05 Nov 19 - 09:34 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Nov 19 - 05:58 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Nov 19 - 05:17 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Nov 19 - 05:05 PM
Raggytash 04 Nov 19 - 02:03 PM
DMcG 04 Nov 19 - 02:00 PM
Raggytash 04 Nov 19 - 01:44 PM
Backwoodsman 03 Nov 19 - 05:44 PM
Iains 03 Nov 19 - 05:52 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Nov 19 - 05:18 AM
Backwoodsman 03 Nov 19 - 05:06 AM
Iains 03 Nov 19 - 03:53 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Nov 19 - 03:44 PM
mayomick 02 Nov 19 - 02:54 PM
Iains 02 Nov 19 - 02:12 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Nov 19 - 01:27 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Nov 19 - 01:24 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Nov 19 - 01:04 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Nov 19 - 12:36 PM
Mossback 02 Nov 19 - 11:17 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Nov 19 - 10:53 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Nov 19 - 08:13 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Nov 19 - 08:07 AM
Iains 02 Nov 19 - 07:56 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Nov 19 - 06:40 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Nov 19 - 06:39 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Nov 19 - 08:57 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Nov 19 - 06:58 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Nov 19 - 02:44 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Nov 19 - 11:10 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 07:13 AM

The telegraph:
Tories more popular among working class than rich, new general election poll shows
Evening Standard
UK opinion polls: Conservative Party to win more support from working class voters than upper class this election
Guido Fawkes
New polling from YouGov shows a twenty point lead for the Conservatives amongst C2DE (working-class) voters

The gruniard
'I've never known voters be so promiscuous': the pollsters .

Hilarious!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 03:21 AM

More bad news for the Brexit-Bunch as the UK faces a cliff-edge on trade...

” By compulsively declaring that he will get Brexit done, the prime minister is desperately and dangerously diverting attention from the harm that Brexit will do.”

Ah well, at least we’ll have ‘Taken are cuntry back’, and....unicorns!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 09:31 AM

Compo behind the curve as usual!
Corbyn has just called on the government to activate the Bellwin scheme to provide financial support to communities affected by flooding. The Bellwin formula makes funding available immediately to local authorities, such as those dealing with flooding in the Midlands and Yorkshire. An obviously good idea from Jeremy Corbyn. Which is probably why the Prime Minister activated it 3 days ago…
As one more polite commentator says:
"Scared chickens watching their increasingly shrinking poll numbers, frantically running around trying to politicise any disaster for their own political ends. Completely lacking in competence and morals."

Seems a fair summary to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 04:30 AM

Talking of ‘Pantomime Season’ - our erstwhile, would-be-again PM apparently off his tits and talking even more bollocks than usual.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 04:06 AM

And now for something completely different.
Let the infighting commence! Enjoy!


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/11/unite-claims-labours-anna-turley-is-unfit-to-be-an-mp-court-hears

The pantomime season is in full swing!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 03:21 AM

The economy is in tatters

Best not talk about Germany then!
UK projected growth 1.3%(the same as France)
Germany 0.4%
Italy 0.1%
Oh look! Labour antisemitism!
In May, the Equality and Human Rights Commission announced an inquiry into whether Labour had "unlawfully discriminated against, harassed or victimised people because they are Jewish".
Oct 12, 2019 - Members of Labour's ruling executive have privately voiced fears that the Labour Party risks bankruptcy over the antisemitism investigation.
Oh Look! Why would they be saying that do you think?

Naughty naughty

even more naughty naughty

Tsk tsk

Everything is perfectly healthy and normal here in Denial Land.”
? Jim Butcher


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 02:44 PM

Boris is telling lies

Oh look! Labour antisemitism!

The economy is in tatters

Oh look! Labour antisemitism!

People are dying because of unnecessary austerity

Oh look! Labour antisemitism!

Brexit is a complete and utter shambles

Oh look! Labour antisemitism!

Ever feel like you are stuck in a loop?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 02:07 PM

And you are usually so insistent on accuracy, Nigel! Jim did not comment on whether rape was acceptable to conservatives. He remarked that interfering in a rape trial seems to be. That's different, I think you will agree.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 01:58 PM

No, rape is not acceptable (to Conservatives). See my comments Here


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 01:50 PM

Seems that interfering with a rape trial is ok with the Tories - to be expected with GROPEY BORIS in charge I suppose
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 01:23 PM

Meanwhile civil war within the Labour ranks. Hilarious!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 03:47 AM

'A very slow-cooked Bullshit-Casserole' - the Independent's view of the litany of lies that was Johnson's speech at the launch of the Tory election campaign.

Why would anyone expect anything but lies from a serial-liar? He wouldn't know truth if it bit him on his big, fat, Belgium-sized arse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 07:29 PM

Break with tradition - on the day the Prime Minister visits the Queen to confirm the general election, a cabinet minister is forced to resign over his part in the interference of a rape trial leaving the Welsh Tories leaderless in an election to select a Government to guide Britain out of the unholy mess Brexit has caused so far (and Britain's not out yet)
The rape victim said not one of the minister's colleagues has contacted her over this FIFTEEN MONTH OLD INCIDENT
Bet she can't wait to get to the ballot box to put them in office again
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 12:52 PM

Interesting that Bercow who liked to be "innovative" has perhaps had a parliamentary response. As yet, in a break with tradition, the ex speaker has not been awarded a peerage.
How very sad!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 07:12 PM

i'm fairly sure it will be out in the next couple of weeks. again people will fall not because of the original crime but the cack-handed and stupid way of trying to cover stuff up


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 03:38 PM

Once again there is no response from the Brexiteers to a potentially critical report being withheld from the scrutiny of not only parliament but from the public of the UK.

Democracy eh ....................

Just what does Johnson have to hide I wonder.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 02:58 PM

I agree it would have been better if I had put it in the election thread. Point taken there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 02:43 PM

It's all very well to portray it as guidance from patricians, but the thought process at the time would have been:
"I'm in a burning building, should I follow my instincts, and get out, or follow the advice of the fire brigade and stay put?"
While the fire brigade were giving what they believed (at the time) to be the best advice, it has since transpired that "I'm in a burning building, I need to get out" would have been the best response for most of the victims.
JRM may not have phrased that well, and it may be that there is no way to phrase it without risking offending someone. But, generally speaking, his comments were truthful.

And what has this to do with Brexit anyway?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 01:43 PM

Sky News picks up Andrew Bridgen's 'defence'


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 01:15 PM

I don't know if anyone else here heard it, but if so what to you think of Andrew Bridgen's attempts to excuse Jacob Rees-Mogg's blunder? To me, Andrew's remarks were very nearly as bad in casting the majority of the population as in need of patricians to tell them what to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 09:34 AM

That last point reinforced by Gove this morning.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 05:58 PM

I note that Johnson has said that there is no way he would ask for an extension to the transition period at the end of 2020. As there is no chance of a deal with the EU being finalised by that date, he is in effect promising us a no-deal brexit. Be advised.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 05:17 PM

Just now, on the BBC news, it was stated that the BBC understands that the report has received security clearance and that there is no administrative reason why the report can't be published.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 05:05 PM

That report needs to be leaked. Openness is crucial to democracy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 02:03 PM

Thanks DMcG


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 02:00 PM

Block on release of investigation into Russian interference in EU referendum


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Nov 19 - 01:44 PM

'No 10 blocks Russia EU referendum report until after election'

That is the title of an article in the Guardian today.

I wonder what it contains that Johnson, who has had the report since at least the 17th October, wishes to keep from the UK electorate.

Could someone please link to the article.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 05:44 PM

And a very interesting opinion here from Prof. Sir John Curtice, the UK’s leading election expert, on the possible outcome of the election, and the very different effect the result may have on the two main parties...and hence on the likelihood of Brexit happening or, hopefully, not.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/shelagh-fogarty/professor-john-curtice-makes-surprising-prediction/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 05:52 AM

While the rats are busy fighting in the sack the polls will be all over the place. I will wait until around the 5th Dec and see how the polls are behaving then. Magic grandad is 12 points behind at present, and who knows what damage the brexit party will cause in the labour heartlands?
We need all the opening phase infighting to settle down and re evaluate what the polls may be indicating.It is interesting the way the polling changed as soonas the brexit party released their mission statement.
If the brexit party and torys refuse to deal the dynamics change! Can the torys take that risk? Is the treaty Boris is trying to ram through worse than remaining?
This will be an election on brexit, no matter what attempts are made to broaden the discussion,


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 05:18 AM

Labour appears to be gaining in the polls and the Brexit Party down in the dumps were they belong
Liberal Democrats are losing support steadily
Johnson is refusing Farage's advances for now but is quite likely to do a fracking-like U-turn when he realise that The Brexit Party, with no chance of winning is quite likely to split the Tory vote down the middle
Early days yet - Trump is not beyond parachuting in the marines if things don't go his way, as described in MY ALL TIME FAVOURITE TV SERIAL
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 05:06 AM

Meanwhile, back to the thread topic. A very interesting piece by William Keegan, attempting to alert the disenfranchised in our society that it was the Conservative Party’s Austerity, not the EU, that broke the UK and left them behind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 03:53 AM

The danger of a Corbyn Victory in December.

Clearly the state of denial some are in is not shared in the real world.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1199346/Election-news-Jeremy-Corbyn-James-Cleverly-Labour-antisemitism-anti-Semitic-Jewi


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/11/02/jewish-families-will-leave-uk-jeremy-corbyn-wins-general-election/

We had better hope the populists win and give magic grandad a thorough trouncing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 03:44 PM

At last, in his speech on 1/11/19 opening the Brexit Party’s election campaign, Ole Haddock-Face finally confesses that Brexit is NOT ‘The Will of the People’...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: mayomick
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 02:54 PM

Can’t agree about the origins of anti-EU populism ,Jim C. Whatever about the leave/ remain options on offer in the UK ballot paper, this thing called Brexit is the package people are going to get if Johnson and Farage get their way .
Thatcherism originated in the US in the 70s with the Chicago School of Economics before Thatcher came to power in the UK . Similarly, Brexit,which was not offered as an option in the 2016 referendum, comes from powerful, vehemently anti-EU interests in the US working with co-thinkers in the UK to break up a competitor.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 02:12 PM

For the pedantic:
Strictly speaking, 'fountain of all knowledge' is correct rather than 'fount' or 'font'. All three are used nowadays, but the original ?fountain' version was a 17th century quote and the other two are just more modern variants of that original.
The quote is from 'An Essay Concerning Human Understanding' by the philosopher, John Locke, published in 1690. Clearly, in it he was referring to God.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 01:27 PM

The truely shameful thing if that Farage succeeded using the arguments Enoch Powell was disgraced out of politics - a true measure of Britain's deterioration
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 01:24 PM

"There are other populist leaders in the world, of course."
I think ours have been the first to hit the big time in the 21st century
Not something I would boast about
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 01:04 PM

We certainly helped to get the tide flowing that way. There are other populist leaders in the world, of course. We desperately need to get these two out. And we need to stay in the EU, which is becoming the only decent major democratic bloc on earth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 12:36 PM

Unfortunately it was Brexit that first made populism a major threat by openig the door to anybody ruthless to use minorities and refugees as a way to the stars - we gave Trump his way in
The US has nothing to apologise for (for a change)
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mossback
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 11:17 AM

Well Worth Reading on both sides of the pond -

Why Trump is much worse than the UK’s Boris Johnson and Brexit

AlterNet 1 Nov 2019

Sorry, Britain, we win. And believe me, I’m sorrier about that than I can say.

Because from where I sit, our criminal president, Cheeto Benito Trump, has got your dissembling, cheating Boris Johnson beat by a corrupt mile. Or corrupt kilometer, depending on the country.

Yes, your Brexit crisis is completely miserable and soul-desiccating, no question about it, but as immobilizing and awful as it has been for the last three-and-a-half years, your current prime minister’s colossal wrongheadedness ultimately can’t compare with the corruption that has overwhelmed the United States with the virulence of Ebola...


Article continues HERE

PS: Please DO ignore the Bo, the Bad, and the Ugly- or they'll accomplish their objective, as Steve & others points out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 10:53 AM

THIS THOUGHTFUL PIECE IS WELL WORTH READING
AND THIS

And this is worth revisiting - the Jewish view (can't blue-clickie
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-labour-conference-jewish-supporter-vote-political-weapon-a7330891.html
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 08:13 AM

Apologies to all the decent people here for resorting to Nigelism, but sometimes the Right-Wing Extremist Troll makes such a tit of himself it’s almost impossible to resist...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 08:07 AM

‘Font of truth and wisdom’?

Thy lack of education, evidenced by thy mondegreens, shall find thee out, squaddie. It’s fount.

https://grammarist.com/phrase/fount-of-knowledge-or-wisdom-vs-font-of-knowledge-or-wisdom/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 07:56 AM

As all lefties regard the gruniard as the ultimate font of truth and wisdom howsabout that:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/antisemitism

Mr shaw if you keep your semi housetrained troll under some semblance of control we can move forward.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 06:40 AM

Let's try to keep this thread going, Jim.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 06:39 AM

No probs, pete. I know I started this thread but I don't claim to own it. Brexit is of course massively tied up with the election so I can't see an issue with bringing the election into it. Tangential issues that have been done to death over several years are a different matter. And persistently trying to bring them into this thread is barefaced trolling. We shouldn't be surprised. Anyone who is signed up here is free to start their own thread. Now it's pretty undeniable that there was a large element of xenophobia whipped up in the referendum campaign, and it's legitimate to bring it here. It is not legitimate to jump in with a load of opportunistic whataboutery. I suggest that no-one responds to it in this thread. Let's hope the mods agree and that we can keep the thread afloat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 08:57 PM

There's a piece in the Guardian by Jonathan Freedland, who usually gets on me nerves big time with his bees in his bonnet, that resonated with me. Here's a chunk:

But if we won’t know who’s won till 12 December – and maybe not even then – we already know what’s been lost. The current parliament is about to breathe its last; its final act will be the election of a new Speaker on Monday. As they leave, transformed from MPs back into mere candidates, the members of the old House will have ringing in their ears the booming voice of the attorney general, Geoffrey Cox, who in a pantomime performance in September told them they were “a disgrace”, that they had lost the “moral right to sit on these green benches”. Echoing, too, will be the words of both this prime minister and the last one, denouncing them as saboteurs of the popular will, even as agents of “surrender” to a foreign enemy.

Such churn is normal at any election, but there’s something different this time.
Yet in truth, far from waving off the outgoing Commons with jeers and condemnation, we should thank them for their service. The very fact that Boris Johnson itched to see them gone is testament to their achievement. They had done their job – of acting as a restraint on the executive – with unusual ingenuity and even, whisper it, bravery.

Remember, this was a government that, had it had its own way, would have suspended parliament altogether, using the ancient royal power of prorogation. (It’s thanks to campaigners, lawyers and the wise 11 judges of the supreme court that it was stopped.) Johnson was urging the nation to jump off the 31 October cliff into a no-deal Brexit.

What held him back? Only the imagination and industry of a handful of MPs – Oliver Letwin, Yvette Cooper, Dominic Grieve, Hilary Benn and others – who were determined to find a way to block no deal, one that a majority of MPs could agree on. They succeeded. And then they succeeded again less than a fortnight ago, ensuring that Johnson was not allowed to steamroller his new EU deal into law in just three days. It’s thanks to them that, this weekend, we are still in the European Union.

Letwin, Grieve and the rest of the 21 Tories who were later purged from their party risked their careers to do that, putting the national interest first. It required working with others across the party divide. It required standing up to their leader, their whips, their local activists and a fiercely hostile pro-Brexit press. When it would have been so much easier to keep their heads down, they showed courage.

It also helped having a Speaker in John Bercow who, hardly shy of public attention, knew his duty was to defend parliament against the power-grabbing instincts of the executive.


That's a sane and rational appraisal of the last few weeks in m'humble.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 06:58 PM

No need to apologise, Maggie. We have vicious populists here too. We just have to fight to get them sidelined in elections, just as you do. This election is pivotal, as is yours next year. Let's fight!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 02:44 PM

"Anyway, let's stick to brexit in this thread, eh?"
Yup
Johnson is on a hiding to nothing
If he doesn't drop the deal the Tory vote will be split by the Brexit party taking away votes
If he refuses to form a partnership with Farage Trump will almost certainly block any future Trade deal so if Britain leaves Europe it will have lost one of its major sources of Trade
Shafted, good and proper PBTG
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 11:10 AM

One of the problems with Brexit ahs been that the populism, particularly that regarding race) has been taken up and is being used all over Europe
We are now feeling the percussions in Ireland where residents of small towns chosen to house refugees are protesting (about four now) extremist right groups have honed in and made each protest a cause celebré and are using them as propaganda
Last year Marine LéPen proposed a federation of extremist groups - this seems to be part of it
Jim Carroll


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