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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Steve Shaw 30 Aug 19 - 06:08 PM
DMcG 30 Aug 19 - 10:59 AM
Steve Shaw 30 Aug 19 - 10:54 AM
Steve Shaw 30 Aug 19 - 09:03 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Aug 19 - 08:53 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Aug 19 - 08:40 AM
Iains 30 Aug 19 - 08:38 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Aug 19 - 07:08 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Aug 19 - 06:31 AM
DMcG 30 Aug 19 - 06:27 AM
Backwoodsman 30 Aug 19 - 06:25 AM
DMcG 30 Aug 19 - 06:24 AM
Steve Shaw 30 Aug 19 - 06:14 AM
Steve Shaw 30 Aug 19 - 06:13 AM
DMcG 30 Aug 19 - 06:09 AM
Rain Dog 30 Aug 19 - 06:03 AM
Rain Dog 30 Aug 19 - 05:58 AM
Backwoodsman 30 Aug 19 - 05:50 AM
DMcG 30 Aug 19 - 05:38 AM
DMcG 30 Aug 19 - 05:30 AM
Iains 30 Aug 19 - 05:20 AM
Iains 30 Aug 19 - 05:16 AM
Dave the Gnome 30 Aug 19 - 04:50 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Aug 19 - 04:48 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Aug 19 - 04:43 AM
Rain Dog 30 Aug 19 - 04:15 AM
Iains 30 Aug 19 - 03:56 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Aug 19 - 03:49 AM
Backwoodsman 30 Aug 19 - 02:58 AM
Backwoodsman 30 Aug 19 - 02:30 AM
Steve Shaw 29 Aug 19 - 06:32 PM
robomatic 29 Aug 19 - 05:58 PM
Jim Carroll 29 Aug 19 - 05:11 PM
Dave the Gnome 29 Aug 19 - 04:58 PM
peteaberdeen 29 Aug 19 - 04:20 PM
Iains 29 Aug 19 - 04:16 PM
Neil D 29 Aug 19 - 03:40 PM
Raggytash 29 Aug 19 - 03:26 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Aug 19 - 03:11 PM
Backwoodsman 29 Aug 19 - 02:56 PM
Backwoodsman 29 Aug 19 - 02:55 PM
Dave the Gnome 29 Aug 19 - 02:21 PM
Iains 29 Aug 19 - 01:57 PM
Backwoodsman 29 Aug 19 - 01:35 PM
Jim Carroll 29 Aug 19 - 01:34 PM
Iains 29 Aug 19 - 01:21 PM
Jim Carroll 29 Aug 19 - 01:09 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Aug 19 - 10:27 AM
Raggytash 29 Aug 19 - 09:26 AM
Backwoodsman 29 Aug 19 - 09:21 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 06:08 PM

UNDEMOCRATIC:

Lied to wholesale by the leave campaign.

Told we would easily get loads of trade deals,

Told that there would be tons of extra money for the NHS.

Told that a large queue of dark-skinned refugees, depicted on a poster, had something to do with EU immigration.

Irish border issue hardly referred to at all.

No-deal dismissed as impossible, thereafter scarcely referred to.

Unelected prime minister, with no public mandate, prorogues parliament in order to obstruct debate on brexit at the most crucial point in the process.

This unelected prime minister is at the head of a minority government.

An unelected Downing Street insider is apparently calling all the shots. Not too much of a stretch to suppose that he's actually running things, as his latest action in sacking an adviser without reference to that adviser's cabinet minister, would suggest.

This unelected prime minister, in charge of a minority government with no mandate for no-deal, is now accusing ELECTED representatives of the people of making no-deal more likely, when, in reality, it's his pig-headed do-or-die insistence on Halloween that's the only threat

Just bloody sayin'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 10:59 AM

I wonder if she could take him to an Employment Tribunal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 10:54 AM

Among all the other chicanery, I now see that Dominic Cummings has sacked Saj's special adviser on the spot without telling poor Saj, allegedly for giving away "brexit secrets." Won't be in the job long now, Baldilocks...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 09:03 AM

Today's Johnson bullshit is that the EU is going to be impressed by his brinksmanship, sharpened all the more by his mischievous proroguing move, and give us a deal. As a change from blaming the EU for not giving its petulant naughty boy (aka the UK) everything it demands, he's now blaming all those who oppose no-deal of making it more likely. It's transparently obvious who's really threatening no-deal: him with his sheer pig-headedness over the do-or-die leaving date. If we crash out, the blame will be one hundred percent his. A single word in your shell-like, Boris: BACKSTOP.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 08:53 AM

"pyrrhic victory" of course
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 08:40 AM

"No, but we are missing him!"
I think this discussion has been devoid of credible, articulate opposition from day one
I had many political disagreements with MtheGM (Mike Grosvenor Myer), but I'd love to have known his opinion on this mess
As with many subjects that interest me nowadays, those who die are seldom replaced - the inevitable effect of ageing, I suppose

One thing that now occurs to me is that whoever wins this fight will have gained a pyrrhic
The damage done to Britain so far will take decades to repair before any attempts to 'stand on our own two feet' can be even thought about - jobs and businesses lost, a divided people, a shattered Parliamentary system and a legacy of hate and bigotry to be swept aside
It is now doubtful that the UK as an entity will survive (no great harm in that in the long run; it was long past its sell-by date)
Wouldn't with that on anyone, but whoever/whatever it is, I hope they come armed with a new broom
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 08:38 AM

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 07:08 AM
About the usual level of meaningful debate!

After three years to debate the issues screeching about losing a couple of days, due to proroguing, is ludicrous.

The court case in scotland cannot have too much merit if the judge did not immediately grant a cease and desist motion for an allegedly illegal action! He needs to spin out his final judgement to give the impression he is giving it due consideration. I would be amazed if he finds for the remainiacs. Even if he does it will be knocked off to a higher court.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 07:08 AM

I'm not a great fan of tweeting as a rule, but a must-share from actor, Hugh Grant
"You will not fuck with my children's future.
You will not destroy the freedoms my grandfather fought in two world wars for to defend.
Fuck off you over-promoted rubber bath-toy.
Britain is revolted by yo and yor litle gang of mastebatory prefects"

Wish I'd said that
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 06:31 AM

"I know Jim disagrees."
It may be that we are in a different position in Ireland but having seen the way referenda works here I can only say - come in and try the water
There are so many vested interests in British Politics that democracy back home has always been "A good idea" (as Gandhi once described Western Civilisation)
I am convinced that the persistent low participation in what should be the most important choice ever obtained by working people - the right to choose who rules them - is down to the utter contempt our politicians are held in
How can a situation like that be regarded as trustworthy on decisions as important as this ?
This antipathy has now given us populism - the opposite of democracy
For all it's flaws, Irish politics has, up to now, supplied a balance which has never been within the reach of the British People
PR and referenda have been very much a part of producing that balance
It is significant that one of the earliest moves of the Northern Unionists while creating their sectarian state was to abolish the former PR system
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 06:27 AM

No, but we are missing him!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 06:25 AM

Bloody hell Steve and DMcG - have you two become apprenticed to Nigel? ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 06:24 AM

Or that neither he nor you is one of the Secret Seven? That is subtly different again ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 06:14 AM

Er, TWO of the Secret Seven...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 06:13 AM

In haste, to Rain Dog.

"I do find it amusing the way some of you interpret a simple yes/no vote to say that it is not a majority vote. According to that reasoning only 43.35% voted to remain in the EU in the 1975 vote. Should that not have counted?"

The vote shouldn't have happened at all. The decision should have been made by Parliament. I know Jim disagrees. I say that to demonstrate that he and I at least are not one of the Secret Seven (worry not - I know you were kidding...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 06:09 AM

I have seen a lot of comments today that Major prorogued Parliament to avoid Parliament discussing the cash for report. It is worth pointing out that what he actually did was call an election during which he, his MPs and those of other parties would be cross questioned by the media and the people, leading to the electorate finally voting who would be in power.

That bears no relationship to the current prorogation, which avoids questioning and at the end of it the PM will be in place whatever people's views.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 06:03 AM

Backwoodsman, it might depend on whether the fares were refundable or not. Waste not want not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 05:58 AM

Dave the Gnome posted " But, because the Cameron administration made the most monumental cock up in the history of politics, that is what we are stuck with."

On that I think we can nearly all agree. The idea that people might vote to leave would appear to have never entered his head. They certainly never gave any thought as to what they would do after people had voted to leave.

Dave the Gnome posted "The leave faction have demonstrated that they do not give a toss about democracy by supporting an unelected prime minister subverting parliamentary democracy for his own self gain."

Well unelected prime ministers are not exactly new. Callaghan/Major/Brown spring to mind. I have no doubt that the situation will arise again in the future. How much Boris is doing for himself and how much he is doing for his party remains to be seen. It is always difficult to work out what he is thinking.

A mess is what we have and I do not see any easy way out of it.

Jim Carroll posted "Now the facts of what is likely to happen have been made clear (according to Gove, they have always been available), it shows that the referendum was not conducted correctly - how could a people to be asked to vote with on the basis of suppressed information ?"

I do not agree with the "suppressed information" comment. At the time of the referendum the so called debate was virtually non existent. It just came down to you either wanted to stay or leave. There were very little facts available to help in that decision. No one knew on what basis we would leave and how that would affect us. 3 years later we still don't have any agreement with the EU so we don't know what will happen. We have to prepare for the worst case scenario but it is second guessing.

We might well leave the EU without a deal, to the delight of those that want to do that, but we will still have to make deals afterwards with the EU. That is a simple fact. It would have been nice if we could do that before we leave but..


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 05:50 AM

Just read one of the best summaries of the situation we find ourselves in. I’m not crediting it, because it’s from Twitter (which I avoid like the plague), but reproduced byba third party on FB...

”It's like three people are diagnosed with terminal cancer, so one of them books three tickets to Dignitas so they can all go together. Doc then says it's a misdiagnosis. Two say, "We thought so ... phew, let's cancel the trip." The other says, "Nonsense, I don't believe it. I've got cancer. I know I have. I googled it myself on QuackDoctor dot com. We agreed this trip fair and square. I'm going. And you two are coming with me."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 05:38 AM

It is confirmed that the judge said "I am nor satisfiedbit has been demonstrated there's a need for an interim suspension or an interimninterdict to be granted at this stage .. I'm going to move the substantive hearing forward to Tuesday."

So, as I suspected, it was all about whether an interim ban before the full hearing was needed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 05:30 AM

The Guardian is reporting that the first challenge to prorogation "has been thrown out." That is a rather dramatic way of putting it. The interim edict would have prevented prorogation before the full hearing, which is going ahead on the 3rd or 4th. But the prorogation cannot happen before the week of the 9th anyway, so such an order would be pointless. That may - or may not - be why the decision is as it is. I will read the full ruling when it is available.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 05:20 AM

Brexit boost: Scottish judge THROWS OUT Remainer bid to stop Boris suspending Parliament

The judiciary in this case wisely deciding not to get involved.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 05:16 AM

A majority of one is sufficient. Playing with numbers and words cannot alter that one vital inescapable fact.
Parliament that is supposed to represent the will of the people had a number of MPs elected on a leave ticket but secretly betraying their electorate and continually voting against the clearly stated referendum outcome.
In essence Parliament, instead of representing the people, is largely in opposition to them. what side of the divide represent democracy? It always has to lie with the people. The clearly partisan speaker and the meddling of the judiciary risk creating a major constitutional crisis and civil unrest. All caused by the dishonesty and unmitigated arrogance of certain MPs. None of which is helped by an entirely ineffectual opposition party..

Churchill described a similar situation in Parliament the 30s and condemned it thus:

as being “decided only to be undecided, resolved to be irresolute, adamant for drift, solid for fluidity, all-powerful to be impotent”
.

"Parliament has shown itself not to be the solution to Brexit but the problem".

Vernon Bogdanor professor of government at King’s College London


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 04:50 AM

The thing about the majority vote, Rain Dog, is that it is being described as "the will of the people". There is no doubt that the majority of those who voted, voted to leave. That is a fact. The lie is that 37% of the electorate represents "the will of the people". It doesn't. Nor should it ever have been a simple binary question. The reality is that It is far from a simple choice, as the last 3 years has shown. But, because the Cameron administration made the most monumental cock up in the history of politics, that is what we are stuck with.

What this discussion is, or should be, about is now to satisfy the will of the 37% who voted leave and the 36% who voted remain. The leave faction have demonstrated that they do not give a toss about democracy by supporting an unelected prime minister subverting parliamentary democracy for his own self gain. They have shown that their own arguments about democracy and parliamentary sovereignty are only applicable when it suits their agenda. They also prove that they could not care less about the will of almost an equal number of remainers with their "you lost, tough shit" attitude.

So, if the are not bothered about the will of 36%, do not care about democracy and are happy to have our own government subverted, then why are they using those arguments when it suits them? Hope this explains my views at least and thanks for dropping in with a civil and reasoned post.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 04:48 AM

Incidentally
"I don't like talk of civil disobedience and violence arising from either side."
Civil disobedience seldom occurs side against side - that would be civil war
It comes about when peoples' livelihood and living conditions are eroded or when a peoples humanity is offended to the poing of them taking to the streets - like Vietnam or Apartheid
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 04:43 AM

Rain Dog
In my experience of referenda in Ireland, some of which have changed the direction of the country in ways never imagined, they were conducted responsibly and openly enough to have been said that they reached a fair decision - open debate on clearly presented facts and arguments
This was never the case with Brexit - iven the press were up in arms that there was no plan beyond "let's get out"
This is why Farage's 'Rivers of Blood' poster won hands down - with the appalling results it incited
Now the facts of what is likely to happen have been made clear (according to Gove, they have always been available), it shows that the referendum was not conducted correctly - how could a people to be asked to vote with on the basis of suppressed information ?
The divisions that Brexit will bring (and is already about) can only get worse as they begin to bit into the communities relying on work
The UK is on the brink of falling apart, the people are divided, businesses are taking their investments elsewhere (notably Rees-Mogg and Dyson), and the older industries are continuing to collapse - Shipping is all but gone, Thatcher killed of mining, wwe are buying our textiles from the poorest countries while at the same time turning away their refugees and economic migrants.

I live in Ireland and am watching a steady rise in sectarian tensions in the North - one of the legal challenges is that a Hard Brexit breaches the Good Friday Agreement
The predicted 20 years it will take to clean up the mess of Brexit in increasing every time another problem emerges

If that's what the people want - fine - what can you do other than to accept it ?
To find that out will take another vote - that is common sense democracy, but one of the prerequisites of that vote should be to remove the hate aspect that skirted on the firinges of legality last time
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 04:15 AM

Jim Carroll posted "It's all very well our slapping each others backs and agreeing - that's not discussion; it's being nodding-dogs"

There does seem to be a lot of that in this section of the forum. It also seems that quite a few of you enjoy this tit for tat nonsense and winding each other. I think someone earlier said they thought that a lot of the posts here were by one person using 6 or 7 different names, posting both for and against Brexit. It does seem like that at times.

In the great scheme of things not many people will be reading what is posted here. I dip in from time to time, god knows why. There is enough nonsense in all the other media without having to add to it.

I do find it amusing the way some of you interpret a simple yes/no vote to say that it is not a majority vote. According to that reasoning only 43.35% voted to remain in the EU in the 1975 vote. Should that not have counted?

This whole debacle is a sorry reflection on our current political situation. How come no one thought of cancelling the 3 weeks off for the party political conferences? They all seemed happy enough to swan off when there is still so much to sort out.

I would just like to add that I voted remain and was disappointed but not surprised by the referendum result. There was plenty of time to sort out an agreement to leave but for whatever reason both the government and the EU seemed reluctant to sort anything out.

From personal experience locally, I do not expect a second referendum to be much different. I imagine that it would be close and could go either way. The result would mean that whoever lost would be unhappy and we would just continue with this carry on.

I don't like talk of civil disobedience and violence arising from either side. I find that sort of thing distasteful. Talk is cheap but the consequences are not always so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 03:56 AM

Compo's crowd are on the compost heap according to the Times Higher Education survey. Maybe it will help next years cabbages!
According to the survey conducted by YouthSight, Mr Corbyn has lost the support of students in what is a critical blow to his election hopes.
The student vote represented a huge part of his support but the new poll shows that among that group he has lost almost half, going from 70 percent to just 38.

The hysterical lefties are losing the plot.

Corbyn urges MPs to join Parliament shutdown protests as Momentum vow to 'occupy bridges and block roads'(That will endear him to a lot of people and be a real vote winner. White van man will not be pleased.
Another well crafted labour "shoot yourself in the foot" madcap protest.(GOOD LUCK with that one!)

The Labour MP Kate Osamor took to social media to share her anger at the decision, which Her Majesty was constitutionally required to do. She tweeted: “The Queen should look at what happened to her cousin Tino ex King of Greece when you enable a right wing coup! Monarchy abolished!” The Edmonton MP caused backlash last year when she used House of Commons headed notepaper to ask a judge not to jail her son for drug dealing.
(fine upstanding behaviour doncha think?)

Philip Pullman the Dark Materials authorhas apologised for a tweet he sent yesterday morning and said that he doesn’t ”advocate hanging Boris Johnson”. He previously tweeted: “When I hear the name ‘Boris Johnson’, for some reason the words ‘rope’ and ‘nearest lamp-post’ come to mind as well”.

It cannot be emphasized enough that no matter how much remainiacs wish to dominate on this thread,out in the real world you are a screeching minority that refuse to accept the democratic will of the majority.
Your cause has zero legitimacy, no matter how you try to clothe it.
It is time for you to accept you are a pack of losers. Live with it.
We, the majority, are getting fed up with your constant petulant whining


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 03:49 AM

" but the bald fact is that we've ignored him beautifully now for a couple of week"
And his behaviour has got worse - and even more psychotic
Fine - we've become used to it over the years, but we are not the only ones on this forum, nor are we the only ones interested in the subject
It's all very well our slapping each others backs and agreeing - that's not discussion; it's being nodding-dogs
I don't know anything about Stanron - he's never here long enough; but I would dearly love to have a half-decent discussion with Nigel on this subject
If I were in his position, I would not with to associate my name with the behaviour of his fellow Brexiteer
If, as some of believe, he has been sent here by one of the organisations he has shown support for, he's managing to damage these discussions - his behaviour even elicited similar from one of the Mods when I complained - that cannot be right.
I'll think about your arguments and see what happens - but if he continues, I'll probably go ahead with what I propose
This enjoyable and vital (for people like me) part of the forum is being damaged
Off to get the papaer and see what Btitain's Pol-the Pot is up to today
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 02:58 AM

”there’s a strong likelihood that the BS Section will be shut down completely.”

That should have been, “I would imagine there’s a strong likelihood....”


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Aug 19 - 02:30 AM

The Mods view everyone involved in this on-going, inter-personal feud as being exactly the same, irrespective of which ‘side’ they’re on. They make no judgment on them over their opinions, but simply on the basis of the ‘trouble’ they involve themselves in. They see no ‘goodies’ or ‘baddies’, they view everyone as trouble-making bastards who make the job of Moderation far more difficult than it should be.

The Mods’ job is difficult enough, and they do it unpaid, in their own free time.

For FUCK’S sake - JUST IGNORE THE TROLL. There’s no need for ‘rants’, or dossiers of the perceived wrongdoings of others - just IGNORE POSTS THAT ARE OBVIOUSLY INTENDED TO FLAME AND TROLL.

Otherwise, not only will this thread be closed down, but there’s a strong likelihood that the BS Section will be shut down completely.

End of Rant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 06:32 PM

I agree with your sentiment, Jim, but the bald fact is that we've ignored him beautifully now for a couple of weeks and the result is that he's got more shrill, more neurotic, more childish, more attention-seeking, more gratuitously insulting and more downright immature than ever. Just ignore him. Within a week or two he'll disappear up his own unwashed arse. Keep protesting about him online and you're giving the mods good reason to just leave him be. They may think that he's a total pain in the arse (they all do: they've all told me in private time and time again) but they're not that keen on us either. Trust me on this. We're doing really well. Ignore the silly bugger. Just remember that very few people read these threads here. Chill!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 05:58 PM

BREXIT is being covered well in the U.S. if you receive and watch PBS and NPR. Here in Alaska we also get some BBC television broadcast news and CBC coverage as well.

No less an American leader than Barack Obama weighed in on the subject prior to the U.K. referendum.

And the very excellent transnational John Oliver of "Last Week Tonight" has explicitly covered BREXIT and PM Boris Johnson.

But even the U.K. coverage has not been able to 'explain' the events or attempt to predict what's going to happen. It is an enormous bollux where the perps are also the judges and executors of policy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 05:11 PM

"Jim, do what I've been doing. Just don't read his posts. "
I am not responding to him Dave
If he ciontinues to behave as he is doing I will do what I have done in the past, copy all his offensive posts en masse and put them up regularly
I the Mods refuse to do anything about his behaviour I will post them directly to Max - along with the earlyied fifty odd I still have filed and ask why he is not being stopped

If he behaved at home as he does here his family would have grounds to demand a restraining order be put on him for his abusive behaviour
If a child did so at school, they would be expelled
If he behaved like this in a pub, he would be barred - and punched in the face by those he insulted
I can see no reason on earth why we should be constantly told to ignore him
This is now beyond tolerance
Sorry - enough really is enough - you handle it your way. I'll do it mine
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 04:58 PM

Why on earth would you wish that on us, Pete? :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 04:20 PM

many of us would like england to exit from europe and leave the celtic nations as members of the EU. who knows what will happen but it's certainly a very scary and potentially devastating situation for the UK at the moment. we have suffered a right-wing coup after several years of extreme austerity where all our public services have been trashed for the benefit of the wealthy. the brexit thing is driven by the 1% who don't want to pay higher taxes as the european countries are more likely to fund their public services more generously to drive down inequality. while scotland and ireland are generally more progressive and open societies, the upper classes and older people tend to be forelock-tuggers by inclination and suspicious of foreigners. sadly, many of the folk who have been most affected by austerity are often likely to fall for the easy answers and racism of the populists in government (here as in the USA)

many of us here are horrified at the direction of our government and would welcome independence for scottish neighbours (please move the border south to include cumbria in scotland!) while a united ireland has always been a goal of progressives here. there are even hints of wales becoming more interested in splitting from westminster rule - remains to be seen what will result from the antics of the foolish, lying slob at no 10.(here as in the USA)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 04:16 PM

Good to see that Boris has the arch Spad Cummings on board. The wargaming master mind and chief of strategy. He has nothing but disdain for al politicians and told parliament to take a hike when they summoned him . Ex PM David Cameron criticised Cummings as a "career psychopath"
He is the archetypal Machiavellian manipulator who hopefully has thoroughly wargamed all the three dimensional moves the remainiacs may be pondering. Very Churchillian! Talk about having the right man in the right place at the right time.
   I might have to go and buy some of luvvie linekar's crisps to go with the popcorn while the future hopefully unfolds, rather than unravels.

After three long weary years of betrayal and endless delays and postponements finally someone has stepped up to the mark and started to carry out the clear incisive directive from the majority of the electorate. I just hope he has the dreamteam to outgun, outclass, and outmanoeuvre the whining remainiacs hellbent on defying the winners.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Neil D
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 03:40 PM

I just spent a couple hours reading through several days of posts on this thread and want to thank the Britcatters for getting me up to speed on Brexit. We don't get much coverage of the issue here in the U.S. I saw one article regarding the suspension of Parliament (we don't use the word prorogation here), without much detail. There's very little interest here; millions of Americans don't even know the word Brexit, yet it's not like we won't be involved at some level. My understanding is that Brexiteers hope to replace potentially lost trade with Europe by signing a more favorable trade treaty with the U.S. This is something Trump will most likely embrace considering his disdain for European leaders and Boris being his long lost clone.
One general question I've long had: Is there any sentiment among Scots for a new Independence referendum and any possibility it would be allowed by Parliament? And what about Northern Ireland? I know that the populations of both countries voted against Brexit by a clear majority. I'm sure it has been a topic of discussion over there, but as I said, we get very little info about it in our media.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 03:26 PM

Or there could be a correction that 63% of the people did not vote to leave.

Where is the majority now!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 03:11 PM

Jim, do what I've been doing. Just don't read his posts. He's getting more and more desperate for attention the more we blank him. It's the way to go.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 02:56 PM

Bugger, I’ll try that again....

Dave, I was simply confirming the accuracy of the statement Steve Shaw has made, which you and I have no difficulty understanding - that 37% of the electorate voted Leave. That is an absolute, incontestable fact - borne out by the numbers provided by our Resident Troll himself.

Our Resident Troll seems to be getting his frillies wedged in his bum-crack on the basis of his own misunderstanding of Steve’s point.

None is so blind as he who will not see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 02:55 PM

Dave, I was simply confirming the accuracy of the statement Steve Shaw has made, which you and I have no difficulty understanding - that 37% of the electorate voted Leave. That is an absolute, incontestable fact - borne out by the numbers provided by our Resident Troll himself.

Our Resident Troll seems to be getting his frillies wedged in his bum-crack on the basis of his own misunderstanding of Steve’s point.

None is so blind as he who will not see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 02:21 PM

I have made the same point over and over again, BWM. 37% of the electorate wanted us to leave. 36% wanted to stay. Of the remaining 27% no one has any idea what they wanted. The "will of the people" lie was put about by the Eton toffs, snake oil salesmen and nicotine stained spivs to fool people into thinking they were working for democracy rather than their own self interest. And some still believe them. I cannot blame those who do. The con artists have had years of practice and they are very good at it. The best we can do is just tell the truth and hope that we will eventually get the message through.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 01:57 PM

17,410,742 is 37.44% of 46,500,001.

That statement looks right to me.
Oh Dear.

What part of the voting process do you not understand.

Those that could not be bothered to vote do not count. Democracy demands little of the electorate and casting a vote is hardly onerous

I really see no reason whatever why we should have to put up with his continuing abusive behaviour. Is that a tree in your eye?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 01:35 PM

”Here’s where we are, MkII. 37% of the electorate voted Leave.”

17,410,742 is 37.44% of 46,500,001.

That statement looks right to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 01:34 PM

Incidentlly
I have requested of the mods that if the increasingly disfunction behaviour of this individual continues he be stopped
I really see no reason whatever why we should have to put up with his continuing abusive behaviour
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 01:21 PM

Here's where we are, MkII: 37% of the electorate voted leave.
More mathermagic from either the abbacus or Hogwarts!
Here are the true results for the 50th time

Leave         17,410,742         51.89%
Remain         16,141,241         48.11%
Valid votes         33,551,983         99.92%
Invalid or blank votes         25,359         0.08%
Total votes         33,577,342         100.00%
Registered voters/turnout         46,500,001         72.21%

If you want to be taken seriously do try to check your facts!
Were you as sloppy when teaching?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 01:09 PM

Leader of the Scottish Conservatives, Ruth Davidson has resigned
It seems the predictions of the break-up of the UK are coming home to roost
A senior Tory MP has stated that the rights of the people of Northern Ireland are being ignored
United we fall - eh !!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 10:27 AM

Here's where we are, MkII: 37% of the electorate voted leave. Almost as many voted remain. The two issues now causing the most angst, the Irish border issue and the prospect of no-deal, were hardly on the table at all during the referendum campaign. The biggest brexit issues were simply not upfront. They were certainly not on the ballot paper. Yet now we have an UNELECTED prime minister leading a MINORITY government who thinks he has a mandate to push through a no-deal brexit, so much so that he is prepared to suspend Parliament in order to obstruct what our ELECTED representatives are elected by us to do. He has packed his cabinet with lackeys, liars (see my post of 05.41AM) and brexit ultras in order to mute his own party's opposition, knowing that almost all Tories are far more interested in protecting their own greedy, unwashed arses than in the country's interests. Well let's hope that that little "almost" will be enough to nobble him. And let's hope that the positive coalition of opposition parties that came about on Tuesday will hold.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 09:26 AM

They'll have to admit to themselves though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Aug 19 - 09:21 AM

They’ll never admit it Raggy. They’d sooner eat their own bollocks than admit they Fell for the horse-shit.


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