BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 05:14 AM

Talk past him, David, not to him. You know where that always leads us. We're doing quite well at the moment.

A no-deal brexit will result in thousands of farms going out of business. Tariffs on exports and a massive drop in subsidies will see to that. The leader of the US farming lobby has said that we will have to accept US standards in order to have a deal. That means not only chlorine-washed chicken (which allows US producers to get away with lower hygiene and welfare standards in the production chain) but also GM produce and hormone-fed meat. We can't compete with that. They'll have us by the short 'n' curlies. Sovereignty lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 05:01 AM

That money has to be paid, come what may. It has been agreed, and it is owed. If the UK tries to renege on its debts, it will be shut out of all financial markets for good. And probably cut off as well, there is no way anything can get in or out of the UK without crossing EU waters or airspace.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 04:15 AM

Of course if we crash out no 35billion wings its way to Brussels and French farmers will take a subsidy cut. With yellow vests still on the prowl, revolting French farmers and Germany galloping into recession,
the EU will find that singing "All things bright and beautiful" simply will not hack it! Then there are slight problems in Italy, and shares in Deutsche Bank are on a journey to the center of the earth.
We really are better off out of the fiasco.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 04:14 AM

What a good idea, David C. Let's get the Dutch in as soon as we can. Everything will be far more laid back than it is now :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 03:54 AM

It is true, that in order to prevent catastrophe, Parliament need to pu aside their differences, unite around a temporary leader such as Ken Clarke, and pass legislation. Then we can maybe get the country back on track. If they do not do that, catastrophe looms. In such a case we would indeed be better off with direct rule from Brussels, although I don't think Brussels is set up to do that, sadly.

We had a similar situation in 1688. A despotic monarch had set out to crush all opposition, and had just convened the Bloody Assize. Parliament invited the Dutch in to restore order and put the country back on the right track. Discontent rumbled on for decades, but in hindsight it was clearly the right thing to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 03:31 AM

"Carry O Britannia"
Should have been "Carry on Brexit" of course - posted in a hurry

BRITAIN STANDING ON HER OWN TWO FEET
PATRIOT TO THE WALLET

FLAG-WAGGERS UNITE

A £TRILLION LEAVING BRITAIN
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 03:30 AM

I am not arguing that Parliament, as a whole, wants a no deal exit. My point is that, as things stand and if no further legislation is passed, on the first of September we will have left the EU without an exit agreement. The law stating this has already been passed. Guess who passed it. Parliament passed it!

Now, if Parliament wants to prevent a no deal exit, Parliament will have to alter the legislation it has already passed!

And these are the people some of you insist know better than us and should be allowed to tell us what is good for us!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 02:58 AM

Stanron, there is no mandate for a no deal brexit. There is obviously no mandate amongst MPs and the question of no deal has not been put to the electorate. So just who is giving BoJo this mandate? No mandate = unconstitutional and undemocratic as stated. He may be acting with a mandate to leave the EU, but I doubt it anyone believes there is a majority for a no deal brexit anywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 07:55 PM

No it hasn't. Maybe you live in a country other than the UK. How would I know.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 06:57 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: Well the groundswell is that there is no mandate for no deal and that any enforcement of no deal would be unconstitutional, undemocratic and would render its executor toast. I want him to be toast but I don't want the other bits.

I don't know if the stereotype of the ostrich putting it's head in the sand is really a fact in nature, but your refusal to acknowledge what is actually enshrined in law reminds me of it. No deal does not have to be enforced. It already has been. By Parliament.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 06:37 PM

Well the groundswell is that there is no mandate for no deal and that any enforcement of no deal would be unconstitutional, undemocratic and would render its executor toast. I want him to be toast but I don't want the other bits.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 05:56 PM

If dyson ulled his money to singapore I wonder how he is the third highest individual taxpayer in the UK?

His private life is such that his neighbours have to call the police to stop him beating the shit out of his partner
Really you must have been told more than the mainstream media, or are you simply making it up as usual. The accusation is libel you realise.

You really do post nonsense. As well as spellcheck perhaps you should invest in fact check.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 05:37 PM

As Britain stands at present
Dying businesses
The crazies who backed Britain (Rees Mogg/Dyson immediately ulled their money out Dyson into Singapore, Rees Mogg into European Irland (would you believe!!!)
In order to survive, the Tory Party had to bung a terrorist linked party a billion of the taxpayers money
So they could survive in parliament they have elected a former foreign secretary who is a racist and whose diplomatic skills caused a woman journalist to e locked away in an Iranian prison, where she appears to be dying of the treatment she is receiving
His private life is such that his neighbours have to call the police to stop him beating the shit out of his partner
Those who elected him Prime minister refuse to back him and are intending to remove him with a vote of no confidence
He is intending to over-ride Parliament if he can’t get his way and is now in the pocket of a disgraced ex politician who got Brexit through with th aid of a faked racist poster showing Britain being invaded by foreigners
Major businesses are abandoning Britain y the dozen, the economy is in decline and recession is now a reality
And Britain is no nearer leaving Europe than it was after the referendum

Isn’t it a shame they stopped making the carry on films – Carry O Britannia could be an Oscar Winner
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 05:31 PM

Meanwhile the government is headed by someone who wrote in his
Pro-European article that the UK continued presence in the EU would be "a boon for for the world and for Europe" and "there is a market on our doorstep, ready for further exploitation by British firms. The membership fee seems rather small for that access. Why are we so determined to turn our back on it"

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 05:04 PM

Would you mind telling our friend that Britain may be part of the EU but that organisation plays no part in the governance of England

Since 1972 A total of 52741 laws have been introduced in the UK as a result of EU legislation.

Laws=Governance. Am I missing something here?

Strange, innit, Jim, that we laud a weirdo Tory such as Hammond for telling it like it truly is. There is no mandate whatsoever for a no-deal brexit no matter how the "will of the people"

Which Hammond would that be?
The Hammond that argued that voters weren’t told before the referendum that voting to Leave could mean leaving without a deal.
or the Hammond that said " Let’s look for a moment now at the default option – the World Trade Organization rules, which is where we will end up if we leave the EU without a deal agreed.   For anyone who wants to ensure a clean break with the EU, the WTO is the only honest model."

I can even link to a Chatham House video of the lying git.(courtesy ofGuido of course)

https://order-order.com/2019/08/14/hammond-wto-honest-model/

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 04:05 PM

May as well give Tommy Robinson the crown
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 04:04 PM

"Jim, that we laud a weirdo Tory such as Hammond for telling it like it truly is."
Tis indeed
Would you mind telling our friend that Britain may be part of the EU but that organisation plays no part in the governance of England - trading partners have no say in its governance unless traitors like Johnson allow them to have
Patriots - I've shit 'em
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 03:57 PM

Strange, innit, Jim, that we laud a weirdo Tory such as Hammond for telling it like it truly is. There is no mandate whatsoever for a no-deal brexit no matter how the "will of the people" notion is dressed up.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 03:06 PM

I thought it worthwhile to remind people that Britain is governed by representatives elected to Westminster, not to Brussels,

I think it worthwhile to point out that Parliament is now subordinate to EU legislation and therefore governed by Brussels.

Despite denial, it is their avowed intention to proceed with
Federalism
Majority voting
Control of foreign policy
etc etc.
Parliament will simply become an anachronistic franking machine.

While Boris(blessed be his name) is following the wishes of the majority He is a staunch supporter of democracy. It is certain member of Parliament aided by a treacherous squeaker defying the electorate.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 02:55 PM

My apologise to the mods for not heeding their advice to 'ignore the troll' - won't happen again.
I thought it worthwhile to remind people that Britain is governed by representatives elected to Westminster, not to Brussels, or for that matter, to Washington or Moscow, especially those intending to be where they are for another month and a half
If Britain leavers the EU in October the present members of tye EU will be lining up at the dole queue looking for a job - the only voice Farage and his ilk will have is from the platform of a Tommy Robinson rally
Never thought I'd say it but I agree with Philip Hammond when he describes Johnson's taking orders from unelected scum like Farage as treachery
The Way things are going, if Johnson gets his way, parliamentary democracy will be a thing of the past and his opponents will be moving into some of the new prisons he's proposing to build
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 02:48 PM

Pretty much all non-EU imported food comes from countries with which the EU already has a free trade agreement. A lot from Africa. So the prices of virtually everything we eat will rise.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 02:37 PM

I tend to judge the integrity and worth of 'ordinary' folks by their 'heroes'...

Boris, Trump, Farage... hmmmmmm....?????

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 02:32 PM

Farage is nor an elected member of the British parliament - the British peooe pissed his party out of existence democratically - stop seeling our democracy to a bumnch of has-been fascists
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 02:32 PM

Farage is nor an elected member of the British parliament - the British peooe pissed his party out of existence democratically - stop seeling our democracy to a bumnch of has-been fascists
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 02:12 PM

non elected campaigners (like Farage) and are deciding to override Parliament

I hate to point out that the electorate gave Mr Farage and the Brexit party the largest number of seats of any one party in the EU.
You are 'avin a laff surely?

A recent yougov poll clearly demonstrated that MPs should do the bidding of the people. The majority voted for brexit. It is the MPs who are trying to overturn the people.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 02:06 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: You'll have to pay a lot more for your veg and wine, though.

Because the EU puts tariffs on foreign wine and food, after leaving we have the option to pay less for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 01:57 PM

"... it would be a very great gamble to remain in the EU. I see it as a nascent empire of evil. At it's base is deceit and a contempt of the individual. This is charmingly counterpointed by a clumsy incompetence and what I suspect will turn out to be a rather stupid intransigence."

And you're comparing this unfavourably with our putative major trading partners of the future, the US and China? And don't pretend to think that we won't "lose our sovereignty" in our dealings with them. We'll certainly lose our sovereignty over food standards and the NHS and we'll certainly have to toe the line over Hong Kong and hold our noses as we deal with the most repressive regime on earth. We will be minnows in a sea of sharks. We will do as we're told. Why, we might soon have to ditch the nuclear deal with Iran as a condition for trading with Trump. All this for kicking up a big fuss over the one percent of our GDP and none of our domestic laws that are tied up with the EU (and even that isn't all one-way: ask those stupid farmers who voted leave but who are about to lose their subsidies...), and an immigration policy that has overwhelmingly benefited this country. You're old like me, you have your house and your pensions and your savings and you don't have to find a job, and brexit won't bother you. You can fiddle while the country burns. And you know that, don't you. You'll have to pay a lot more for your veg and wine, though. You'll manage, I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 01:39 PM

well some people who voted leave did not envisage a no deal brexit.
mean while I feel it is necessary to criticise the EU For signing MERCOSUR AGREEMENT.The EU bangs on about emissions and then signs an agreement with Brazil, a country that apparantly has 23 per cent of the cattle population of the world, second behind India 32 per cent. Ireland has 0.07 per cent. However while i am very critucal of the hypocrisy of the EU , I DO NOT AGREE WITH LEAVING IN A NO DEAL BREXIT

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 01:20 PM

Agreed, Pete. Cameron will forever be known not just as pig sticker but also the man who ran from a fight with the nicotine stained man-frog and then abdicated all responsibility for his failure.I

Stanron, thanks for the civil and honest answer. We may disagree but at least we can discuss. Who will share the responsibility if it does go wrong though? As far as I am concerned the ball is entirely with you - I.E. The leavers. Who else will be to blame for crashing out of the EU? Well, I suppose there is porky prick and the toad... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 01:12 PM

"Johnson (in fine Trump style) "
He tweeted his accusation, byt the way
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 01:08 PM

Brexit has now undermined Parliamentary DEmocracy in Britain
Hammond and other leading Tories have accused Johnson oand the Brexiteers of betraying the people by bringing taking up policies from non elected campaigners (like Farage) and are deciding to override Parliament
Johnson (in fine Trump style) has accused Hammond of colluding with the EU to stop Brexit
The Tory Party seems to have entered into a state of Civil War with each other, leaving Britain ungoverned
Up lads and at 'em
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 12:59 PM

And now the insults start! What part of majority escapes your understanding? Maybe I can help!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 12:15 PM

i reckon it is interesting to think that no-one (on here anyway) seems to have changed their mind (in fact i have been introduced to another phrase - along with backstop and proroguing - 'double-down') the nearer we get to halloween the more us remainers get angry and worried and the brexiteers double-down on their unshakable faith in leaving.

no matter what happens i'm angry that we are engaged in this massively expensive and risky nonsense. and all because cameron never had the guts to call out nigel farage for the creepy little fascist that he is.

ho hum

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 12:10 PM

Chicken à la industrial chemicals.. yum...

.. and Boris playing chicken with the EU and all our futures..

Wot a silly clucker...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 11:17 AM

The EU and the US have a long-running dispute over imports of chlorine-treated poultry, which EU member states have refused to accept since 1997. The feud has resulted in proceedings before the World Trade Organisation (WTO) and remains a major bone of contention in EU-US trade relations.



According to a report from the Adam Smith Institute (which argues in favour of allowing PRTs), “immersing poultry meat in chlorine dioxide solution of the strength used in the United States reduces prevalence of salmonella from 14% in controls to 2%. EU chicken samples typically have 15-20% salmonella.”

The US disputes this, says the ban is not based on scientific evidence and little more than wilful protectionism designed to protect EU poultry producers from more competitive imports.

So is it safe?

US regulators are unequivocal: yes, it’s safe. The USDA has approved several antimicrobial rinses for use in poultry processing, including chlorine dioxide, acidified sodium chlorite, trisodium phosphate and peroxyacids, and meat treated with such rinses is considered safe for consumers to eat.

And, in fact, their EU colleagues agree. The European food safety regulator EFSA looked at the issue of chlorine treatment and found “chemical substances in poultry are unlikely to pose an immediate or acute health risk for consumers.”

The Adam Smith Institute says there are good reasons for the UK to scrap EU rules that currently ban chlorine-treated poultry in this country.

In a new briefing paper called Chlorinated chicken - Why You Shouldn’t Give A Cluck, it argues British consumers could enjoy much cheaper poultry if the ban on chlorine treatment were lifted. “US methods produce fresh chicken at 79% of the price of equivalent birds on British supermarket shelves,” it says.

It also points out American consumers eat about 156 million chlorine-treated chickens a week, and are fine, and that the risk associated with chlorine treatment are tiny. “Adults would need to eat 5% of their bodyweight in chlorinated chicken each day to be at risk of ill health from poultry alone,” it says. “Brits would have to eat three entire chlorine-washed chickens every day for an extended period to risk harm.”

And propaganda from: It’s fair to say the British Poultry Council is not at all impressed by all this talk of American chicken imports. In fact, chief executive Richard Griffiths flatly rejects the notion of importing chlorine-washed chickens as part of a makeweight in trade negotiations with the US.

“We are proud to produce wholesome, nutritious and affordable food for the UK population. We also know that British consumers trust nothing other than British chicken,” he says. (and we will make them pay through the nose for it.)



All this information from “The Grocer” no less. No leftie axe to grind with them, just wholesome facts!(Chlorine dipped of course)


Also just under a year ago the EU decided Millions of chickens could soon be sold across the EU without being individually inspected for contamination or signs of disease after being killed, in a move some experts believe will put consumers at increased risk of food poisoning bugs. Campylobacter is Europe’s biggest cause of food poisoning, with up to 9 million cases estimated to occur annually, although most are not reported. Rates of the disease – which can prove fatal – are known to be rising, with high levels found in chicken meat. This would seem a good example of EU joined up thinking.

Is a jug of well chlorinated water required to accompany a meal of chicken in this brave new world of the EU?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 11:06 AM

Dave the Gnome wrote: If it all goes pear shaped though, will you take responsibility or blame someone else?

That's an interesting question. If it turns out that I was wrong I would admit my mistake but responsibility would have to be shared.

As for gambling, part of my point of view is that it would be a very great gamble to remain in the EU. I see it as a nascent empire of evil. At it's base is deceit and a contempt of the individual. This is charmingly counterpointed by a clumsy incompetence and what I suspect will turn out to be a rather stupid intransigence.

As I have said I expect that in the next five to ten years the EU will collapse under the weight of it's own absurdities. We will be better off out than in if and when that happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 11:03 AM

Oh, we *are* all screwed. The problem is that they expect us to lie back and enjoy it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 03:05 AM

Thanks Stanron and apologies for not noticing that before. Going back to an earlier post of mine on the brexit 5 thread then, if it all works out fine, I am happy to give credit where it is due. If it all goes pear shaped though, will you take responsibility or blame someone else? Hopefully, we will still be about in 10 years and that should be !omg enough to tell. I seriously hope that you are right because, if not, we are all screwed. Gambling with your own welfare is one thing. Gambling with the economy of 65 million people is another.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 07:40 PM

The former. All EU countries must adhere to welfare and hygiene standards that don't apply in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 06:52 PM

From The BBC
Why ban chlorine-washed chicken?
Washing chicken in chlorine and other disinfectants to remove harmful bacteria was a practice banned by the European Union (EU) in 1997 over food safety concerns. The ban has stopped virtually all imports of US chicken meat which is generally treated by this process.
Although the article goes on to give figures for greater health risks for US chicken, as the EU ban only came in in 1997, it is worth asking whether this was to improve food standards, or to reduce competition.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 06:04 PM

'Surely the point is not what trade will maintain but how will they replace THAT WHICH WILL BE LOST"

That's right. Trade with the US is utterly dwarfed at present by trade with the EU. Let's suppose that, by some miracle, the backstop is not threatened and the Good Friday Agreement remains secure (impossible with a no-deal, but one can always imagine). It will take decades for the current trade volume and balance between us and the EU to be replicated by any deal between us and the US, and even that is supposing that we'll get a deal at all. Which we certainly won't if the many Irish-supporting democrats in Congress get even the slightest sniff of a threat to peace in Ireland. Which they will.

By the way, the chlorinated chicken issue is nothing to do with whether we are going to be obliged to consume chlorine. It's about lower welfare and hygiene standards in the US which can only be compensated for by harsh post-slaughter disinfecting treatment. I'm no fan of the standards in the EU but be assured that they are a damn sight better than those in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 04:44 PM

A coherent, yea compelling, reason for leaving.
51.89% voted to leave.In layman's terms this is a majority. 'nuff said!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 04:42 PM

Dave the Gnome wrote: So, Stanron, do you favour crashing out or some sort of deal with the EU? If it is the latter, what sort of deal?

Read my post;

Date: 13 Aug 19 - 02:55 PM

My answer is in the last two paragraphs.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 04:37 PM

So, Stanron, do you favour crashing out or some sort of deal with the EU? If it is the latter, what sort of deal?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 04:31 PM

As I suggested you ignore what I, Iains and Nigel Parsons have posted. The cliches you list are not what we posted.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 03:49 PM

Sorry Stanron, neither you nor anyone of the leave side has ever been able to present a coherent arguement for leaving.

You have stated we will regain our sovereignty which we never lost. You claim we will regain control of our border bust that only relates to Europeans immigration, from other parts of the world we already have full control.

So please tell me how I will be better off.

To date I have experienced only negatives, rise in the cost of my weekly expenses a dramatic fall in the value of the pound. My insurance companies relocating to mainland Europe etc etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 03:32 PM

Raggytash wrote: Stanron your response once again begs the question I have asked in scores of occasion that has yet to be answered in any coherent form.

IF you can tell me how myself and millions of others like me will be better off outside the EU you will have my full support.

I'm still awaiting that conherent response.

Over to you.

You are not waiting for a response from me. You are pretending that I, and others, have not already responded. You might fool yourself, you might fool some other people but you don't fool everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 03:22 PM

Stanron your response once again begs the question I have asked in scores of occasion that has yet to be answered in any coherent form.

IF you can tell me how myself and millions of others like me will be better off outside the EU you will have my full support.

I'm still awaiting that conherent response.

Over to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 03:16 PM

Chlorination is the mainstay of potable water treatment in the UK. Every time we wash ourselves,our kitchen utensils or vegetables the various items are chlorinated to the tune of about 0.5mg/l. For the average person the only time chlorine becomes a hazard is by misuse of household hypochlorite.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 02:55 PM

The chlorinated chicken scare always seems a bit overblown to me. In my teens I was a keen swimmer and immersed myself in chlorinated water almost daily most summers and several days a week in winter. Admittedly I never ate myself but any chlorinated water always seemed to wash off.

My post was in response to Steve Shaw's post

Date: 13 Aug 19 - 11:24 AM

saying a deal was unlikely any time soon. Your list of scare stories would therefor be unlikely any time soon as well.

I would prefer leaving without a deal as that is the only way of actually leaving. All this business about stopping us leaving without a deal is really about stopping us leaving full stop (period).

The dynamic of getting a deal or deals after we have left will be different to previous negotiations. The point is that there will be a deal or a number of deals after we leave but we won't always have to be the supplicant. No deal is not no deal for ever.