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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Raggytash 18 Jun 19 - 06:56 AM
Iains 18 Jun 19 - 06:43 AM
Raggytash 18 Jun 19 - 06:19 AM
DMcG 17 Jun 19 - 02:58 PM
Dave the Gnome 17 Jun 19 - 02:07 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Jun 19 - 02:07 PM
DMcG 17 Jun 19 - 12:17 PM
Iains 17 Jun 19 - 11:24 AM
Iains 16 Jun 19 - 05:44 AM
DMcG 16 Jun 19 - 04:34 AM
Iains 16 Jun 19 - 04:27 AM
DMcG 16 Jun 19 - 04:04 AM
DMcG 16 Jun 19 - 03:23 AM
Stilly River Sage 15 Jun 19 - 11:39 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Jun 19 - 11:09 AM
peteaberdeen 14 Jun 19 - 09:01 PM
Stilly River Sage 14 Jun 19 - 07:43 PM
Stanron 14 Jun 19 - 11:33 AM
DMcG 14 Jun 19 - 10:58 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jun 19 - 10:04 AM
Stanron 14 Jun 19 - 08:15 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jun 19 - 08:12 AM
Raggytash 14 Jun 19 - 07:31 AM
Stanron 14 Jun 19 - 06:55 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Jun 19 - 06:44 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jun 19 - 04:39 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Jun 19 - 03:23 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jun 19 - 05:59 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Jun 19 - 11:48 AM
Raggytash 13 Jun 19 - 11:02 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Jun 19 - 11:00 AM
Nigel Parsons 13 Jun 19 - 10:45 AM
Raggytash 13 Jun 19 - 10:36 AM
MikeL2 13 Jun 19 - 10:29 AM
Nigel Parsons 13 Jun 19 - 10:28 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jun 19 - 10:03 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jun 19 - 08:57 AM
Backwoodsman 13 Jun 19 - 06:57 AM
Raggytash 13 Jun 19 - 06:24 AM
Nigel Parsons 13 Jun 19 - 05:52 AM
Iains 13 Jun 19 - 05:22 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jun 19 - 04:39 AM
Iains 13 Jun 19 - 04:35 AM
DMcG 13 Jun 19 - 04:15 AM
SPB-Cooperator 13 Jun 19 - 04:07 AM
DMcG 13 Jun 19 - 02:15 AM
The Sandman 13 Jun 19 - 12:30 AM
SPB-Cooperator 12 Jun 19 - 05:05 PM
Raggytash 12 Jun 19 - 03:44 PM
Dave the Gnome 12 Jun 19 - 03:22 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Jun 19 - 06:56 AM

Sp perhaps you could tell us if we are going to leave on the 31st October, before that date, after that date, with a deal, without a deal. What reparations, if any, will we pay to the EU, What are we going to do with European citizens residing in the UK, what will our relationship with Europe regarding Security be, what are we going to do regarding fishing, farming, banking, insurance and a multitude of other issues.

Any coherent, cohesive and consistent Conservative Brexit policy yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Jun 19 - 06:43 AM

The official Tory policy is leave and to honour the referendum result.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Jun 19 - 06:19 AM

Brexit: the gift that keeps on giving.

Best of the rest
1.UK growth tipped to slow as firms run down stockpiles
2.Divided, pessimistic, angry: survey reveals bleak mood of pre-Brexit UK
3.UK businesses urged to step up preparations for no-deal Brexit
4.Varadkar: removing Irish backstop would be as bad as no-deal Brexit
5.No deal is “extremely serious” for Northern Ireland, warns Tory MP
6.Brexit “shambles” has ruined UK’s reputation, says senior diplomat
7.Food Standards Agency struggling to prepare for Brexit, say auditors
8.Third of Britons say they avoid news out of Brexit frustration
UK jobs growth slows amid Brexit uncertainty
9. UK job growth slows amid Brexit uncertainty

Scroll to the bottom of this for a link.
Link

Any good news about Brexit?????????


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jun 19 - 02:58 PM

From "A man for all seasons":

Roper: So now you'd give the Devil benefit of law!
More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
Roper: I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast — man's laws, not God's — and if you cut them down — and you're just the man to do it — d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jun 19 - 02:07 PM

The past form of BoJo is abysmal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jun 19 - 02:07 PM

There is nothing in that report either to suggest that any wrongdoing could be attributed to Labour and there is nothing in that report that suggests the extent of issues still being investigated. It looks to me like a matter which, after proper scrutiny, will be quickly forgotten. Some of the allegations already have been. That IS in the report.

Sacco and Vanzetti's judge:

"He was heard to declare "They should get the chair
They're Reds and what more do you need?"

(Cheers to Andy Irvine)

Only real evidence, please.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Jun 19 - 12:17 PM

I think you meant "innocent until proven guilty."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jun 19 - 11:24 AM

POLICE are investigating allegations of electoral fraud during the Peterborough by-elections, which saw Labour trump the Brexit Party by a narrow margin.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48665324
No smoke without fire!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jun 19 - 05:44 AM

I think if Boris pulls that off I will have to believe in miracles.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jun 19 - 04:34 AM

Which is why I think the Johnson strategy is to call for a general election after a no deal. Then almost all the points you raise disappear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jun 19 - 04:27 AM

A General Election would seem the only clean way to solve the present impasse. But it is fraught with all sorts of possibilities.
Tory and Labour will have to state a very clear position on Brexit (a herculean task for both)
How real is the support for the Lib Dems?
How much support would the Brexit party lose to a Boris premiership?
How real is the Brexit party threat
How many MPs will be deselected by their own constituency parties?
What confidence, if any, can be placed in polls prior to an election.


Any party manifestos will have to take very clear positions on Brexit.
Flimflam will not work a second time around. Labour will have to come off the fence or be destroyed. The Tories will have to support Brexit or be destroyed.
It will be a 4 horse race with two running as dark horses. Determining the winner will be a challenge, even for the bookies.

However
"A ComRes undertaken for The Daily Telegraph suggests that the current voting intention sees Labour ahead with 27 percent, and the Conservatives four percent behind with 23 percent of the vote.

According to the poll, which was undertaken between June 7 and 9, the Brexit Party would achieve 22 percent of the vote, the Liberal Democrats 17 percent, and the Green Party five percent.

Bringing up the rear would be the SNP with three percent, and Plaid Cymru, Change UK and UKIP all with one percent.

The ComRes poll was of 2,017 British adults and taken between June 7 and 9.

Whereas
he latest poll from YouGov shows the Brexit Party remains in the lead for general election voting intention.

The poll, conducted on behalf of the Times between June 9 and 10, asked 1,702 British adults what their voting intention was in Westminster.
The Brexit Party took the lead with 26 percent of the vote.


confused or what?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jun 19 - 04:04 AM

It seems quite likely to me the a Johnson PM would force a no-deal through then immediately call a general election. My expectation is that on the morning after a no-deal the ordinary person will attempt to go about their job exactly as they did before, unless somebody tells them otherwise, and this will carry on until some part or drug or rule from on high stops them. Stockpiling will delay this point (but Christmas is a complication if the October date holds.) So it could be a month or two before no-deal really bites.

So the Tory pitch would be:

a) we have delivered Brexit
b) the claims it will all collapse have proven unfounded
c) we need a majority to deliver everything in the manifesto.

That could be a winning path, as it weakens Farage a lot and the fears of the remainers seem unfounded. But the longer it is delayed, the greater the risks, as no-deal Brexit is more like a house of cards - it can stand successfully for a while, but if it falls, it could do quite dramatically. Wait until the legal limit for an election and that could have happened. Do it early enough after a no-deal and you will get away with it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jun 19 - 03:23 AM

According to the Independent:

Labour Party members will have the opportunity to force Jeremy Corbyn to commit fully to a fresh Brexit referendum, after the party bowed to pressure to stage a consultation.
The grassroots survey will be launched next month and conclude by early August, The Independent can reveal – paving the way for the policy shift as a new hardline Conservative prime minister arrives in No 10, supporters believe.


We will see if this actually happens - so far only the Independent seems to be claiming it will - and we will see how the results are handled come the conference. Calling for a referendum, for example, does not say what the question on such a referendum would be. Combine this with the rising suspicion that a Johnson PM would be forced into a general election and how the two strands combine will be very significant: will Labour commit to a referendum on any Brexit deal as part of its manifesto, for example?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jun 19 - 11:39 AM

I found that Twitter link and saved it here after trying to listen to another link and the message popped up that I couldn't listen from my location. That bit I posted is to the point!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jun 19 - 11:09 AM

You can hear the whole of her amazing diatribe on YouTube, SRS.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 09:01 PM

just saying this is what we are about - gerard depardieu, plastic bertrand, nena and her balloons, rod stewart, camembert, et les vins de wherever, jean paul sartre, frankie van der elst, johann cruyff, serge gainsbourg et jane birkin of course and , thierry henry, ian dury, chartres cathedral, daniel auteuil, tintin, spiral, and decency.....and virgil van dyke and pep and jurgen klopp and this is us - and if it isn't why not? shove your racist nasty shite up your old sad arses. farage ? boris johnson? fucksake, get a grip


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 07:43 PM

From Twitter:

@bbcquestiontime
Jun 13
“Whatever your politics, you can agree that punishing disabled and sick people for falling on hard times is absolutely morally wrong and they have blood on their hands”

@chessmartinez on the government’s austerity policy. #bbcqt pic.twitter.com/3zQUDVLvOa (https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1139288950525349888/video/1)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 11:33 AM

It wasn't Tory leaders. The only one who's name I remember was Vince Cable. Another one might have been Chuka Umunna or Anna Soubry talking about the Change party. Probably someone from the Labour party calling for a second referendum and another talking about stopping a no deal exit. All current news stories but also all strongly anti Brexit. I remember being astonished at there being four or five on the trot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 10:58 AM

I am not sure which edition of the Andrew Marr show is being referred to, but he went through all the prospective PMs, either directly or via one of there supporters over a period of several weeks. It may be you regard 5 of these as remainers, but if so, they were all squeezed into a single show, whereas the other candidates will have got a longer slot on another day.

If that is not what you are referring to, please identify exactly which show and which 5 remainers and we can discuss it more meaningfully.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 10:04 AM

Does Andrew Marr work for Murdoch, Rothermere or any of the other billionaire press barons? If the BBC are showing any bias, which I would dispute, it is more than suitably offset by the mega-rich cabal providing most of the news.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 08:15 AM

Wow. Has there been an Andrew Marr show where he interviewed five Brexiteers and only one remainer? If it occurred in the last few weeks I will have missed it because I no longer watch the program.

I admit that there can be a tendency to be over sensitive to opposing views but five interviews with remainers in one program?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 08:12 AM

Absolutely massive pro-brexit Media bias. From 'Left Foot Forward' - A leftist website but the facts are correct.

Over a quarter (27.3 per cent) of the press is owned by Lord Rothermere and 24.9 per cent by Rupert Murdoch – between them these two men have over 50 per cent of the printed press.

Over three quarters (77.8 per cent) of the press is owned by a handful of billionaires. There are only 88 billionaires among the 63 million people in the UK and most of the barons do not even live in the UK.


Not to mention Sky TV.

Do you think those billionaires want their tax affairs inspected by the new EU tax avoidance rules?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 07:31 AM

Strange that Stanron, because from the other side of the fence I perceive a pro-brexit bias not only on the BBC but throughout the media.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 06:55 AM

I missed it. Having heard the first question to be an unpleasantly phrased question on Boris, I went back to watching Fantom on Quest. They were renovating an old Citroen 2CV and it ended with a can can moment. When I switched back someone was finally calling the BBC out on its anti Brexit bias. Fiona denied it of course but it's becoming more and more obvious. There was an Andrew Marr show four or five weeks ago where he interviewed five remainers on the trot. In the last five minutes of the program he spoke to someone I'd not heard of who wanted the kind of soft Brexit that isn't really leaving at all. I can't see how that is anything other than deliberate bias.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 06:44 AM

Francesca’s dignity, despite her obvious emotion during her reply, should make our Right-Wing Extremists, Tory apologists, and Brexit-fan-boys here crawl back into their holes in shame.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 04:39 AM

It's gone viral, Steve. If anyone wants to see it just do a search for "Francesca Martinez Question Time" and you will find it all over the place. Magnificent indeed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 03:23 AM

What a woman! Magnificent!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 05:59 PM

Totally brilliant and heartrending contribution at the beginning of Question Time from Francesca Martinez. If you missed it catch it on the repeat or iPlayer. If you still vote Tory after hearing it, you deserve to hang your head in shame.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 11:48 AM

From dictionary.com:
pan-European:

"adjective:
of or relating to all or most of the countries of Europe."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 11:02 AM

No not really Nigel.

Have you heard or read of any positive forecasts for the UK economy post Brexit for instance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 11:00 AM

Again, everyone understands what was meant Nigel. Is there any news that says brexit will benefit the economy? Benefit the peace in Northern Ireland? Benefit the ordinary people of the UK as opposed to the Rees-Moggs and Rupert Murdochs of the world? Benefit the scientific research world? Benefit pan-European and world security? Benefit anything at all?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 10:45 AM

"Give us some good news . . ."
All being well it will happen by 31 October 2019.
Of course, you may not consider that good news!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 10:36 AM

Nigel, the rest of us understood just what Steve was saying, why oh why do you have to be so pedantic.

Tell you what, give us some good news about Brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: MikeL2
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 10:29 AM

hi

there are a number of comments saying that we were the only EU country

that was not occupied in WW2.

The Channel Islands were occupied for most of the war.

I have been to the Channel Islands and have seen many examples of occupation. The underground hospital is probably the best example.

Cheers

MikeL2


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 10:28 AM

The last pan-European war led to the murder of six million Jews by fascists. Remember?
"pan-European"= across the whole of Europe.
I thought Steve Shaw had just accepted that not all of Europe was at war, nor even 'occupied'.

It seems he's back to Humpty-Dumpty use of English.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 10:03 AM

The dissolution of the EU would make war in Europe far more likely. The EU insists on democracy in its member states. Without the EU it is likely that some countries would retreat from democracy. We live in times in which the far right is in ascendancy. Democracies rarely fight each other in wars. The last pan-European war led to the murder of six million Jews by fascists. Remember?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 08:57 AM

That was a careless error on my part. I could have said one of the very few countries now in the EU not to have endured a fascist regime in the 20th century. Switzerland isn't an EU country, by the way. The point stands, however.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 06:57 AM

Adopting the very finest Nitpicking-Nigs tradition, I’d just mention that neither Iceland nor Switzerland are EU Member-States.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 06:24 AM

Ireland....................... Neutral in WW11
Iceland.......................      Ditto
Portugal......................      Ditto
Spain.........................      Ditto **
Sweden........................      Ditto
Switzerland...................      Ditto


** Franco did send just one "Blue" Division to fight one the Eastern Front


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 05:52 AM

That's an excellent point. We are the only EU country that didn't endure Nazi occupation.
For starters there's:
Ireland
Iceland
Portugal
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland,

Also any countries which were Allies of Germany wouldn't have "endured Nazi occupation".


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 05:22 AM

"The trouble is that the EU have been so good at creating cohesion that virtually everyone in the UK has forgotten what living in a fascist state means
Not quite true.
The Brexit party
Le Pen
Continual rioting in France including teargas released on May Day
Catalonia and banned MEP and Independence struggle.
I could go on!
A report rather out of date in view of the recent EU MEP elections.


https://www.ecfr.eu/publications/summary/crisis_cohesion_ten_year_review
and this has to be read with the Mandy Rice-davies view that "They would say that wouldn't they?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 04:39 AM

"The trouble is that the EU have been so good at creating cohesion that virtually everyone in the UK has forgotten what living in a fascist state means, and as mainland UK was never occupied in WW2 the noone here has experienced it for real, and bizarrely British people now would prefer to live in an insular, oppressive state, rather than the freedoms we enjoy through international cooperation."

That's an excellent point. We are the only EU country that didn't endure Nazi occupation. That helps to explain the difference between our insular national mindset (if there is such a thing) and that of the other EU members. I suppose they recall far more sharply than we do why the Common Market was founded in the first place. Neither my children nor I have ever been called up to fight in a European war. One of the many good reasons for being a member of the EU is to keep that threat at bay. And were there to be no no EU it would be a real threat, what with the rise of far-right populism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 04:35 AM

I think it very unlikely to go anything like this far, but in extremis it would be police demanding to see your papers whenever they wished
This already happens within the EU in some countries. From personal experience I know that it happens regularly in Spain and Ireland if driving a vehicle Most of the time it is to check the car is legally on the road, but in both countries a driving license must be carried while driving so it is not unusual to be asked to show it. Other road blocks in Ireland are more thorough,involving social welfare and revenue officers as wellas the Gardaí, but are not as common. The UK is very lucky that such roadblocks are extremely rare, but ANPR has much the same impact.
Whether such checks are a good or bad thing, or if they reduce criminality, is another discussion. The reality is that such checks already exist elsewhere within the EU and are not considered onerous.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 04:15 AM

Just to be clear - I am strongly opposed to such ID checks. It is simply that it is one way of overcoming the problems that some of the more right-wing will come up with.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 04:07 AM

Obligation to show papers/ID on the street would be a massive erosion of freedoms, almost going back to wartime/cold war Europe. Even countries that have retain obligations to carry id rarely enforce it these days, unlike 70s 80s Czechoslovakia where the brutal VB would arrest people for not carrying id and carry out frequent spot check to make sure people are complying

We indeed seem to be shifting towards far right politics, and if that happens, the impact on personal freedom would be far far worse that what leavers wrongly imaging that the EU impose on us.

Reading that farage whats to relax gun laws should be a serious warning of what may be to come in the future.

The trouble is that the EU have been so good at creating cohesion that virtually everyone in the UK has forgotten what living in a fascist state means, and as mainland UK was never occupied in WW2 the noone here has experienced it for real, and bizarrely British people now would prefer to live in an insular, oppressive state, rather than the freedoms we enjoy through international cooperation.

We should be worried about that and also the readiness of people to blame people from Europe for their oppression.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 02:15 AM

I am not so sure about the Common Travel Area exception. It did exist before the EU, certainly, but at the time the Republic did not have the free movement with France, etc etc: it had a hard border with Europe. As a member of the EU, that has changed. So now there is free movement into the Republic, there would be free movement via the CTA between the Republic and the North, and free movement between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.

This may happen, because Parliament doesn't seem to think at all about Ireland unless it is forced into it, but I think there is only one way of avoiding it while still having a CTA: much more frequent ID checks of all UK citizens as they go about their daily business to find people who have got in by some means. I think it very unlikely to go anything like this far, but in extremis it would be police demanding to see your papers whenever they wished. We have already gone a fair way down this road as it is, with identity needing to be proved when getting a job, or renting a flat, for example.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 12:30 AM

SPB The exception will be travel from uk to ireland, this is covered by the common travel arrangement which predates either country joining the common market, however the whole situation is a complete mess, what is need is either a general election or a second referendum


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Jun 19 - 05:05 PM

The significance is that if we are forced to leave without a deal, for the next 10 years when we visit other states we can pretend to be ignorant and try to use the biometric microchip gates on the grounds that an EU passport should work in EU passport channels. If enough visitors do this, then hopefully passport officials will eventually get fed up and just give us free movement anyway.

A more important issue is that by virtue of being a national in an EU member state, we enjoy the same visa-free travel as the rest of the EU outside of the EU - for example ETA for visiting Canada. What has the FCO done so far to force the rest of the world to put in place identical passport arrangements for the UK on 1 November - just in case?? If Visas will be required in the future, what arrangements have the FCO made to ensure that the tax payer and not the individual foots the bill?   What arrangements have the FCA made in the event of reciprocal visaless travel ending to force the embassies and consular offices to have staff at every airport in the UK to process visas at less than an hour's notice, and for the FCA present to pay the visa fees?

Another issue - HM Customs have not yet confirmed that there will be no change to the rules regarding limits and duties of purchases made in EU states, or if there will be changes, the FCO putting in place measures for the tax payers rather than the individual to pay the additional duties.

What measures have the FCA put in place to force the EU to allow UK nationals to live/study/work in/retire to other EU states beyond the 90 day restrictions that applies to the rest of the world?

We are about to face the biggest degradation of our rights in living memory, and our useless government is prepared to just let it happen as if people don't matter?

Finally, why are UK nationals, if they fall in love with someone fro Europe, why leavers think they have the right to decide whether or not they can pursue heir relationships. If the Tories get away with the minimum wage cap, then surely we should be deporting all UK nationals who fail to meet the same earning level. In my book having different rules for different people is racist.

I could go on for hours about further losses of rights, but I will leave it at this. I hope all the above is in line with the original purpose of this thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Jun 19 - 03:44 PM

Ye gods and little fishes ....... sorry guys I know this is not strictly Brexit but one of the Tory hopefuls as leader of the party, and therefore the government, who have to sort out the complete shambles left by May is alleged to have claimed £8,750 in expenses for a personal photographer.

WHAT!!!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/12/esther-mcvey-expensed-thousands-of-pounds-for-personal-photographer


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jun 19 - 03:22 PM

I guess all the tricks that May tried to bypass governmental procedures has been forgotten by the Mayflies.


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