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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Rain Dog 06 Sep 19 - 09:58 AM
Iains 06 Sep 19 - 10:09 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Sep 19 - 10:20 AM
Rain Dog 06 Sep 19 - 10:30 AM
Raggytash 06 Sep 19 - 10:46 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Sep 19 - 10:48 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Sep 19 - 11:10 AM
Iains 06 Sep 19 - 11:31 AM
gillymor 06 Sep 19 - 12:14 PM
gillymor 06 Sep 19 - 12:30 PM
Jim Carroll 06 Sep 19 - 01:08 PM
Iains 06 Sep 19 - 02:05 PM
Raggytash 06 Sep 19 - 02:36 PM
Nigel Parsons 06 Sep 19 - 03:07 PM
Raggytash 06 Sep 19 - 03:13 PM
Jim Carroll 06 Sep 19 - 03:14 PM
Iains 06 Sep 19 - 03:44 PM
Raggytash 06 Sep 19 - 04:07 PM
Jim Carroll 06 Sep 19 - 04:36 PM
DMcG 06 Sep 19 - 04:41 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Sep 19 - 06:35 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Sep 19 - 06:42 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Sep 19 - 02:43 AM
Iains 07 Sep 19 - 04:19 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Sep 19 - 04:31 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Sep 19 - 05:14 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Sep 19 - 05:51 AM
Iains 07 Sep 19 - 06:32 AM
Raggytash 07 Sep 19 - 06:41 AM
Iains 07 Sep 19 - 08:01 AM
Raggytash 07 Sep 19 - 08:02 AM
Iains 07 Sep 19 - 08:19 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Sep 19 - 08:29 AM
Iains 07 Sep 19 - 09:25 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Sep 19 - 11:10 AM
Iains 07 Sep 19 - 11:46 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Sep 19 - 01:19 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Sep 19 - 01:24 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Sep 19 - 01:45 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Sep 19 - 01:52 PM
Iains 07 Sep 19 - 02:23 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Sep 19 - 02:37 PM
Iains 07 Sep 19 - 03:19 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Sep 19 - 07:42 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Sep 19 - 07:54 PM
Dave the Gnome 08 Sep 19 - 02:29 AM
Neil D 08 Sep 19 - 02:45 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Sep 19 - 03:05 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Sep 19 - 03:53 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Sep 19 - 04:08 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 09:58 AM

In response to gillymor's post - I think that the vast majority of those who wanted to leave just wanted to leave. The details of the leaving did not bother them too much.

As for being better informed well that is not so straightforward is it? Ideally we would have to know the terms of our leaving and I cannot see that happening anytime soon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 10:09 AM

The mythical will is the only will that counts. We won,you lost. Live with it!

Out of a 46 million electorate only 33.5 million could be bothered to vote. More than half of that number voted out.

No amount of hogwash mathermagic can alter the fact that leave won, and in a democracy that means leave.

If we do not leave, parliament no longer has legitimacy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 10:20 AM

You are pissing in the wind here RD
The difference between a decision made by using hate, prejudice, no planning for the future and deliberately withholding information as opposed to real democracy will nebver be understood in a million years by people like this
It's worth repeating that Nazi Germany came into being via an elected majority - there are at least six million reasons why that particular exercise in 'democracy' should never be repeated
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 10:30 AM

Jim Carroll posted "The difference between a decision made by using hate, prejudice, no planning for the future and deliberately withholding information"

I get that you did not like the result but if you are saying that information was withheld before the referendum, I cannot agree with that.

The fact is that the so called debate before the vote was pretty useless all around. Someone on the radio the other week said that whenever he heard one side of the so called debate, it made him want to vote for the other.

As you are no doubt aware, there has always been a sizeable number of people who were opposed to us joining and then staying in. That has not really changed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 10:46 AM

It is pleasing to see the opposition doing what an opposition should do and preventing a government hell bent on doing the country a huge disservice. One that would have dire consequences for the coming years and especially the youth who are as yet not allowed a vote.



https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/06/opposition-parties-agree-block-snap-election-until-brexit-delay-secured


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 10:48 AM

Picked up from a FB thread yesterday...

”Listening to Brexiteers now is horribly like listening to my late mother when she was almost convinced she'd been scammed by a cowboy roofer but couldn't bring herself to admit it. She said 'I may have been overcharged but it's my money. I can do what I like with my money. Anyway, I like the result. I don't care.' She said 'I'm doing it for you and the children because it will increase the value of the house when I die'. She didn't admit to herself that she'd been scammed until it was too late to cancel the cheque. Now I'm hearing 'We voted to leave, just get on with it'. ' I don't care about the arguments, I just want us to leave and move on. We've chosen and that's that. No ifs or buts.' The scammers will pick up their money and run unless the scam victims recognise in time that they have been tricked. There's no shame in admitting that you've been conned by highly-skilled experts.”

Sounds pretty much on the button to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 11:10 AM

"I get that you did not like the result but if you are saying that information was withheld before the referendum, I cannot agree with that."
It has become clear that no information was provided on what might happen before the referendum took place, but from the beginning the business community was warning that leaving Europe would destabilise the economy and would take up to twenty years to put right
While that information appeared in the specialist press, it was never made clear in the popular media and was certainly never discussed publicly
A prediction as important as this should heve been put clearly to the people from day one - it's accuracy became apparent when compainies immediately began to move out of Britain - Westland was among the first - it changed its name and suddenly became a European company'
Even leading Brexiteers like Rees Mogg and Dyson, put their money elsewhere - the latter had financed Brexit to the tune of £5 million

Brexit was slammed all round for having no plan beyond 'leaving' and 'controlling immigration' - that was a major cause for concern, even in the Tory Press - Britain decided to leave Europe the way a sulky teenager would leave home after a row with the parents

It transpires that (according to Gove) the 'Yaellowhammer Report was put together in the ealy days and the findings were so horrifying that they were locked away and only leaked a fw weeks ago - the Government were more concerned at them being made public that they were at the findings themselves.

This stupidly self-damaging decision was won largely on Farage's obscenely racist 'Foreign Hordes' poster and the historical racism towards Europeans - proven beyong any douby by a spike of 42% in racist incidents - even o the morning after the referendum, 'foreign-looking' people were being stopped in the street and asked when they were going back to where they came from.

The oly way to extract the British people would have been to ask them to confirm their decision now the likely outcome had become clearer - a bit late for that now - Britain's reputation internationally is shot forever and its future out of Europe lies solely on being able to crawl into the pocket of the moronic degenerate in The White House
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 11:31 AM

The rebel bill may have passed in the Commons and Lords, However:
It has stopped no deal therefore an extension is almost certain. That means more payment must be made to the EU.
Only ministers can propose a bill with a fiscal component. I suspect Royal assent will not be forthcoming. As a result the bill is stranded and of no consequence.

Tickety tock!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 12:14 PM

Rain Dog:

"Ideally we would have to know the terms of our leaving and I cannot see that happening anytime soon."

I know politicians prefer an ignorant and malleable electorate but why not hold out for a clear cut explanation of the exit terms so the public can make an informed decision.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 12:30 PM

thanks, mod.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 01:08 PM

House of Lords have blocked a no deal Brexit
Wonder if Johnson will try to pension them all off
Hasn't it been a fabulous week ?
Johnson say's he's not resigning - a clear indication that it's on the cards
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 02:05 PM

House of Lords have blocked a no deal Brexit

Not yet! Only ministers of the crown can propose legislation with a fiscal component.
Royal assent as opposed to Royal consent, is required for any bill to become law.
As far as I am aware this has not yet been signed into law and the government can kick it's heels for up to a month before submitting it for her Majesty's approval ( Assuming they may want to, of course. This also assumes the bill is legal, The wording is absolutely crucial)

The great game continues!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 02:36 PM

Step five successful.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 03:07 PM

At the risk of being accused, yet again, of nit-picking:

From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 19 - 05:41 PM

Might I suggest that we preserve a civil discussion here and utterly ignore/blank/talk past every single post of Iains'. Even those ones where he pretends that he's being "reasonable." That's part of his game, and he always reverts to type very quickly, and you know it. We've done so well in recent weeks and we can see the effect it's having on this inveterate seeker-of-attention. He's getting more and more silly, more infantile, more immature, more off-topic and more shrill, almost hysterical at times by now, the more we sideline him. A handful only of us read his posts. I for one have stopped reading them altogether.


Can anyone on the leave side see the logical fallacy above?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 03:13 PM

As far as I am aware the last time Royal ascent was refused was in 1707. Three hundred and twelve years ago.

Just saying ..........


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 03:14 PM

"Step five successful."
Seconded on that one
Personally I'd love to see the Government attempt to "kick its heels' in the present atmosphere
That should dive at least another couple of dozen believers i Parliamentary democracy out of the Party if it doesn't elicit a handful of writs against any fascist bastard who would attempt such a thing after already having his undemocratic arse kicked
From the present appearance of Johnson, I'd say he was looking for a gas oven to put his head into
I don't think there's been such a severe case of shell-shock since the Armistice
I pity his partner when he goes home at night, but maybe she has a solution for getting wine stains out of the carpet
Iim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 03:44 PM

We could always trade assent for an election. But chlorinated corbyn is frit. The first time in history the opposition party has turned down a chance to get elected. What a sorry shower.
Quite happy to thwart the will of the majority but scared to attempt to legitimise their hijacking of Parliament.
Even the EU is getting tired of magic grandad and trying to stay abreast of his ever changing stance on Brexit.

Guido sums it up very aptly:

https://order-order.com/2019/09/06/cchq-sends-lobby-jeremys-frightened-chicken/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 04:07 PM

It is quite pathetic when Brexiteers can only respond with sound bites from a right wing blogger with a criminal past.

Surely ONE of them could come up with something better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 04:36 PM

"Surely ONE of them could come up with something better."
I think they used to pass the shared brain around until one of them accidntally dropped it
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 04:41 PM

At the end of last week on Newnight four people were asked to predict the events of this week in terms of how votes would go. No one says prediction is easy, of course, but one was Tom Harwood from Guido Fawkes - he seems to be on BBC quite a lot - and his prediction was dramatically wrong. Pretty much he said Johnson would win everything this week and would be dominating the house at this point. There may, perhaps, have been too much confidence and too little analysis.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 06:35 PM

You might have thought that Bozza's week couldn't get worse. But Sky News have revealed this hand-written Bozza note from mid-August, at the time he was lying to us about his assurance that Parliament wouldn't be prorogued:

"The whole September session is a rigmarole introduced by girly swot Cameron to show the public that MPs were earning their crust."

Hands up those who think he's just a big girl's blouse... :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 19 - 06:42 PM

No, Nigel, I really have stopped reading them. Doesn't mean I can't do a quick scan to spot the rabid and hysterical insults. I've always been able to do that. A skill worth acquiring, I suggest. Now instead of your nitpicking, which we naturally all enjoy (at your expense, though you never see it), why don't you come clean and tell us what you think of his posts?

Careful now, Nige...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 02:43 AM

It is a crying shame that the only Brexiteer who strikes me of having a shred of honesty about what he believes will only post in defence of the worst of his sorry little bunch
My Welsh optician commented a few weeks ago that, whenever he asked fellow ex-pats why they supported leaving (if they did) - "why", they refused to discuss their reasons
The deafening absence of logical argument from Brexiteers here bears that out - an indication that they don't know why they wish to leave or they are ashamed to tell us why.
That seems to be a summing up of the whole, sorry business
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 04:19 AM

The increasingly hysterical left.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 19 - 05:41 PM
this inveterate seeker-of-attention. He's getting more and more silly, more infantile, more immature, more off-topic and more shrill, almost hysterical at times by now,


I look forward to seeing examples, are you taking a lead from sparky, or having a Prosecco moment?
It seems you deliberately, or are unable, to understand plain English. Is this in order to have a platform to justify continuous insults?

The reality is that I post facts and statistics with accompanying links that you are not able to refute.
You adopt the identical stance with Mr Guido Fawkes. Have any of you managed to refute any facts he posts?

You may think yourself clever having many posts of mine deleted but reality is not changed as a result.
For example yesterday I posted that Gina Millars/Major's court case was rejected. Manipulation by the darkside made it vanish.
https://order-order.com/2019/09/06/gina-miller-john-major-lose-prorogation-case/ You all seem unable to think beyond the continuous false narrative fed to you by the Guardian. You even act as though your losing side won the referendum.
Is that a shining example of snowflake entitlement?

With the current turmoil in parliament deleting the above would seem bizarre. Rabid remainers are resorting to the courts to try to force parliament to acquiesce to their minority views.

17.4 million people have spoken, they are the majority.(irrefutable fact!)


In order to impose your minority views on the majority you seem quite oblivious to the fact that you destroy democracy. Parliament voted to give the decision to the people. Now they have reneged. Do you seriously think the majority will accept this?
Why else is corbyn scared to face the people? They will have their say
and the outcome may well be untidy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 04:31 AM

Johnson has been condemned by the Chief of Police for using the Police force to make deliver a political message
He says they were told he would be talking about law and order - instead, he used his visit to promote his personal take on Brexit
I think he might have been concerned that one of his constables nearly died of boredom during Johnsons meandering speech
It's not the first time Tories have used the police (or the army) to force through an unpopular agenda, and I doubt if it will be the last
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 05:14 AM

Couple of interesting snippets in this mornings Times I missed on last night's news
The expelled Tory rebels have struck a deal with Brexit leaders to secure a three month extension on Brexit
Donald Trump is demanding that Britain and its NATO partners pay a share of building his Mexican wall
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 05:51 AM

Should b EU leaders of course
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 06:32 AM

It's not the first time Tories have used the police (or the army) to force through an unpopular agenda

An agenda to leave the EU, voted for by a majority?

In reality a popular agenda by majority decision.

A stunning example of your mental agility, or perhaps total misunderstanding of the voting statistics.

The fact that the left has difficulty accepting the majority decision does not alter either it's legality or popularity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 06:41 AM

"The prime minister reportedly wrote to Tory members on Friday evening pledging to break the law that will require him to seek an extension of article 50. “They just passed a law that would force me to beg Brussels for an extension to the Brexit deadline. This is something I will never do.” (From a Guardian report today)

Isn't it great that the leader of this country, who only yesterday was supporting a police recruitment drive, says he is going to break the law.

Isn't it great that the leader of this country supports law and order so much.

Wouldn't it be fantastic to see him sent down for breaking the law, makes me ALMOST wish he would!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 08:01 AM

“They just passed a law that would force me to beg Brussels for an extension to the Brexit deadline. This is something I will never do.” (From a Guardian report today)

As usual the Guardian is incorrect.

Parliament and the Lords may have created a bill. It does not become law until it receives Royal Assent. This final part of creating UK law is sometime in the future(possibly further than you think)

You are spreading false news. This is very remiss of you. You should apologise for dreadfully misleading us!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 08:02 AM

What price government plans for a no-deal Brexit I wonder. Farmers are already experiencing problems.

Problems already.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 08:19 AM

Devious tricks and counter measures

https://www.theworldlawgroup.com/news/england-can-parliament-prevent-a-no-deal-brexit
I wonder who wins this one?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 08:29 AM

Tory rebels are preparing to take Johnson to court if he doesn not apply for an extension to Brexit on October 9th - I'm sure our populist ranter knows they are wasting their time

Crowds are beginning to gather in London and other places throughout Britain to protest at Johnson's fascist behaviour - one part of the people's voice that will be totally ignored by the goose-steppers
I wonder if the police will turn up to monitor the march after the way Fuhrer Johnson has used them as political chess-pieces ?

DETAILED STUDY of EFFECTof BREXIT on FOOD and AGRICULTURE
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 09:25 AM

Tory rebels are preparing to take Johnson to court if he doesn not apply for an extension to Brexit on October 9th - I'm sure our populist ranter knows they are wasting their time

VERY GLAD TO SEE YOU USE THE TERM REBELS

Well we have a couple of arguments to be tested:
1)Did the recent bill require Queen's consent
2)Can rebels force the government of the day to submit for Queen's Assent a bill they do not support.

As the rebels like to resort to the courts, perhaps it is time for Boris and the quiet brexiteer majority to use the same tactics.

I suspect the bill was allowed it's untrammelled passage because it contains a fatal flaw that filibustering might have exposed.
There was a reason for rushing the bill through.

No doubt all will be revealed in the fullness of time.

One view below

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/09/02/proponents-of-the-new-bill-to-stop-no-deal-face-a-significant-dilemma-over-queens-cons

They say the speaker cannot be challenged but no doubt Erskine May has been fully scrutinised and government lawyers are testing the legality of the speakers pronouncements.

Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 11:10 AM

The claim that Brexit was decided on democratic is a lie that needs to be nipped in the bud
Democracy demands that voting takes place on the basis of full and accurate information - a basic tenet of the system
From day one the voters were lied to and essential information held from them
Even if this had taken place, it does not mean that decisions arrived at were 'democratic' - patently not so in the case of Brexit
The driving force behind Brexit was racism and xenophobia, the result of which has led to a 42% rise in recist incidents
Far from expanding the rights of the British people, the Brexit vote has undermined and endangered and even removed the rights of several million non indigenous British citizens
his has been compounded by the failure of the state to protect the rights and even lives of these citizens
FACTS

Maybe iyt's time for somebody to examine the legality of the racist campaing in the light of the subsequent hate-incidents it has caused so far
Just a thought
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 11:46 AM

That Jim, is merely your view. I doubt many share it. The referendum was a yes, no answer - do we stay, or do we go.

You continue to introduce false arguments to try to give legitimacy to your narrative but unfortunately 17.4 million totally disagreed with you.

It will be interesting to see who the final winners are! The longer this farce continues, the worse the outcome will be.
British politics will never be the same again. The majority will be most unhappy if they continue to be thwarted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 01:19 PM

Johnson has been warned by former head prosecutor, Lord Macdonald, that he could face prosecution, and evenn jail, if he refuses to obey the House of Lord's instruction to delay Brexit - but i'm sure we have someone here who knows Lord Macdonald hasn't got a clue what he's talking about - no prizes -

"That Jim, is merely your view."
Common sense, common humanity and basic political philosophy
You would not be familiar with any of these, of course, as you spend so much time proving
I'm afraid as you constantly prove you can't tell the difference between democracy and lynch-mob populism
Over and out - ha my week's fun humiliating you
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 01:24 PM

I have lost count of the number of times I have said this. 17 million voted to leave. 16 million voted to stay. 13 million did not say one way or another. Whatever happens a lot of people are going to be pissed off. A compromise is the only way to satisfy most people. No deal is not a compromise. Trampling over the views of half the electorate, whichever way they voted, should not be an option.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 01:45 PM

The shape of things to come...?? :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 01:52 PM

We can but hope :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 02:23 PM

Interesting snippet from the Telegraph.(4 April 2019 • 2:21pm)
"Today there’s a new one for Brexit obsessives to consider: what if disgraced Labour MP Fiona Onasanya had served three months in prison for perverting the course of justice, instead of being released after four weeks? The answer is that Britain would, more than likely, be heading towards a no-deal Brexit next week."

Now wots all that about majorities?

Jim I was told by Joe to give links if I was offering facts. Does the same stipulation not apply to you? I look forward to seeing links that support your 'observations', or alternatively a clarification you were merely offering your opinions.

Trampling over the views of half the electorate, whichever way they voted, should not be an option.
Pray tell, what on earth are remainiacs doing if not exactly that?
They are overturning the majority vote as well. All caused by releasing a criminal from jail early.

Sovereignty: a viewpoint
https://www.thearticle.com/who-is-sovereign-people-or-parliament#


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 02:37 PM

"We can but hope :-)"
Pity he cant take one of ours with him
He's even comparing himself with the rest of us now - talk about delusions of grandeur
I'VE GOT TIRED PUTTINg THESE ARTICLES UP - HE CAN'T EVEN READ
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 03:19 PM

IF you cannot be bothered to give links their original titles I do not bother to read them.


    Cheap shot, Iains. If you actually know how to use a computer, hover your mouse over the link and it will show you the details.
    -Joe Offer-

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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 07:42 PM

Right.

I don't know how many more times I'll have the energy to say this. But here goes. If you respond in any way at all to Iains, he will keep winding you up. I'm really sorry to say this, Jim, but you are the prime mover here when it comes to keeping him going and I for one haven't a bloody clue why you feel the need to keep on doing it. He is not poisoning the world. He is poisoning the tiny group of us who can be arsed to read his posts (and I'm not even one of them any more - I go into auto-skip as soon as I see his name). He doesn't matter. I learn a lot by reading the measured views of the reasonable contributors here. But you, Jim, above all others (though you're not alone), are guilty of keeping this bastard going. When we don't respond he acts like an hysterical kid, desperately seeking attention by posting more and more stupid and irrelevant nonsense to try to wind us up. Jim, he's a bloody idiot who has nothing to say, nothing to contribute. His modus operandi is to wind you up. I appeal to you to try once and for all to try to see it. Honestly, Jim, we can make him go away, even if the mods won't. Ignore him, let him rant on, and eventually he'll disappear up his own unwashed hysterical arsehole. Could I be more direct? Try me!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 07:54 PM

And now I see that the detestable John Mann has joined the Tories. Detestable, disreputable and downright bloody thick. Good riddance!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 02:29 AM

Rats joining a sinking ship! What next?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Neil D
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 02:45 AM

Some of the links provided in this threads are to articles suggesting that the agriculture industry will be the first to suffer from a hard Brexit. Meanwhile here in the U S farmers were the first on either side to be casualties in the ill-conceived tariff war that Trump started with China. So are farmers the canaries in the coalmines when it comes to economic catastrophe. My father grew up the son of a lease farmer in the 20's and 30's. He said his community was suffering for quite a while before the Great Depression began in 1929.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 03:05 AM

Steve
I am still happy to allow Iains to humiliate himself as he is doing
If somebody doesn't he will continue to pollute these threads with his propaganda unhindered
Even Joe, who up to now has defended his presence, has gone as far as to point out the stupidity of his postings - the other Mods have been referring to him as a troll for a while now - progress enough for now).
To be honest, I am grateful for the opportunity to put up the facts and figures I have as often as I am able - they can't be said enough
Christ knows, the one thing this subject has lacked from day one is an intelligent and articulate argument defending Brexit - Stanron and Nigel avoid involvement (if I was in their position wouldn't want my name associated with behaviour such as Iains's)
I don't enter into long arguments with him - I made that mistake with someone else, but an occasional dose of putting him where he belongs woks like a dose of Philosan for me.
With the greatest respect to the rest of you, as much as I enjoy being in the company of those I respect and agree with, I need to be able to bounce my ideas and opinions of people who question them - I think we all do otherwise we become complacent
Enough of this before we close the thread, which I have no doubt is why Iaians behaves as he does
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 03:53 AM

I need to be able to bounce my ideas and opinions of people who question them

Agreed. But questioning your ideas is not just quoting right wing sites and abusing you. If you really want to debate, discuss your ideas with someone who does question them and puts some thought into it. Don't respond to someone who just parrots propaganda. All you are doing is smearing the shit further.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:08 AM

Dave - you miss my point
I hardly respond to this feller and I never do so in expectation of an answer
I hope to allow him to humiliate himself and he seldom lets me down
I believe hiis behaviour is driving away Breciteers who might - just might be capable of putting up an argument rather than the stream of invective and personal abuse we are getting here
Let's face it - if someone acted as he does here in a live situation, he would be taken into care for his own protection - just try putting him in your local - to be pitied rather than despised
I was told his behaviour would be 'looked into' - no signs of it having been so far
Let's leave it there
Jim


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