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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

bobad 04 Feb 19 - 12:56 PM
Iains 04 Feb 19 - 12:33 PM
Mossback 04 Feb 19 - 12:33 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Feb 19 - 11:54 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Feb 19 - 07:52 AM
bobad 04 Feb 19 - 07:35 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Feb 19 - 05:07 AM
Iains 04 Feb 19 - 05:00 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Feb 19 - 03:45 AM
peteaberdeen 04 Feb 19 - 03:36 AM
DMcG 04 Feb 19 - 03:32 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Feb 19 - 03:00 AM
DMcG 04 Feb 19 - 01:54 AM
Stanron 03 Feb 19 - 09:40 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Feb 19 - 09:28 PM
DMcG 03 Feb 19 - 06:16 PM
Nigel Parsons 03 Feb 19 - 06:02 PM
Dave the Gnome 03 Feb 19 - 03:37 PM
Iains 03 Feb 19 - 02:53 PM
DMcG 03 Feb 19 - 01:08 PM
Iains 03 Feb 19 - 12:43 PM
DMcG 03 Feb 19 - 09:32 AM
Iains 03 Feb 19 - 06:21 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Feb 19 - 05:08 AM
DMcG 03 Feb 19 - 04:56 AM
Iains 03 Feb 19 - 04:22 AM
DMcG 02 Feb 19 - 05:09 PM
Iains 02 Feb 19 - 03:29 PM
Iains 02 Feb 19 - 03:22 PM
DMcG 02 Feb 19 - 02:43 PM
Raggytash 02 Feb 19 - 02:34 PM
Dave the Gnome 02 Feb 19 - 02:19 PM
Backwoodsman 02 Feb 19 - 02:06 PM
Iains 02 Feb 19 - 12:50 PM
peteaberdeen 02 Feb 19 - 12:11 PM
Iains 02 Feb 19 - 10:24 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Feb 19 - 08:14 AM
DMcG 02 Feb 19 - 07:24 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Feb 19 - 07:18 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Feb 19 - 06:40 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Feb 19 - 06:33 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Feb 19 - 06:26 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Feb 19 - 05:49 AM
Iains 02 Feb 19 - 05:03 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Feb 19 - 03:36 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Feb 19 - 03:32 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Feb 19 - 03:19 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Feb 19 - 03:14 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Feb 19 - 03:06 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Feb 19 - 02:44 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: bobad
Date: 04 Feb 19 - 12:56 PM

.Iran is not listed, but this is hardly surprising. To get there one must cross eastern Syria and northern Iraq, both dangerous places to traverse.

Lol.....Canada is slightly further from Syria than is Iran.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 04 Feb 19 - 12:33 PM

Lebanon is next door, all the way from Damascus to Homs. No surprise they take many refugees from the western instigated destruction of their country. Turkey takes the most, followed by Lebanon and Jorden.
Britain comes in at number 32, Russia at 35.Iran is not listed, but this is hardly surprising. To get there one must cross eastern Syria and northern Iraq, both dangerous places to traverse. But they have given sanctuary to 1.5 million mainly Iraqi Kurds since 1991.
Those asylum seekers reaching the UK would have already made landfall in the EU and should have had their refugee legitimacy decided where they first made landfall.

"In the European Union, however, the 2003 Dublin II regulation determines which E.U. member state is obligated to process an asylum claim; if an asylum claim is made within 12 months of arriving in the E.U., the first E.U. country in which the asylum seeker arrived is responsible for processing the claim (after that, it’s the E.U. country where the person has lived for at least five months)."

Therefore it is no surprise the number granted asylum in the UK is relatively low. I do not believe the discussion ventured into a numbers game relative to the rest of the world, so I fail to see what point you are making.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mossback
Date: 04 Feb 19 - 12:33 PM

Jesus Christ, Steve - don't wave the Palestinians in front of boobad, he'll launch into one of his regular psychotic episodes!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 19 - 11:54 AM

Er, and what about Lebanon, home of Hezbollah, then? :-) One Syrian refugee for every four Lebanese citizens? On top of half a million or so Palestinian refugees? They may not like 'em but they take 'em... Amazing how inconvenient the partial presentation of information can be, innit, bobad?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Feb 19 - 07:52 AM

"For the record the UK has given refuge to a greater number of refugees from Syria than Russia and Iran combined."

Could we have a link to your source please?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: bobad
Date: 04 Feb 19 - 07:35 AM

Without either accepting, or denying, that Britain was involved in creating the situation, I see no reason for us to refuse entry to 'refugees'.

For the record the UK has given refuge to a greater number of refugees from Syria than Russia and Iran combined.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 19 - 05:07 AM

Sounds better than Theresa's deal, Pete!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 04 Feb 19 - 05:00 AM

No need for any more clutching at brexiteering straws.

Indeed! but rational discussion needs accurate reporting of facts.
Regarding the highlighting of inaccuracies as nitpicking does nothing to advance a counter argument, it merely demonstrates their meagreness


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Feb 19 - 03:45 AM

It's frightening how a handful of MPs who are more concerned with keeping their fortunes intact than doing what is right can manipulate the government into a situation where the majority of the country will suffer.

Politics is broke and the only way I can see to recover is a drastic shift in the way we do things. My benign dictatorship is looking better by the minute...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 04 Feb 19 - 03:36 AM

if scotland doesn't get her independence, providing us with somewhere more sensible and civilised to return to and you get your irish passport, steve. (sadly my irish granny was foolish enough to leave her kilkenny home to get born in liverpool. if only she had thought about me...) anyway, steve, will you do the decent thing and marry me. and then marry my wife - or the other way round. then we will go and live with our daughter who has just bought a holiday camp centre (14 rooms) in estonia for £20,000 (or 20,000 euros) and get stockpiling short range nuclear weapons and ibuprofen. or something. don't feel you have to join us there - you'll have done your bit for humanity. or insanity


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Feb 19 - 03:32 AM

Hard Brexiteers say only way forward is to remove the backstop

You will remember it was asked several times during the Brady amendment debate what "alternative arrangements" were. While 'Malthouse' was mentioned, it was definitely not declared by Brady or the government to be the only viable alternative. It is certainly possible that the amendment would not have been passed had that been the only possible interpretation.

The chances of the EU agreeing to remove the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement are virtually zero. Dress it up as you like, but this looks like determined manoeuvring to get 'no deal' to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Feb 19 - 03:00 AM

Nigel. Just a suggestion but it does make far more sense to create a link to another post or simply refer to the date and time rather than C&P the entire thing or whole swathes of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Feb 19 - 01:54 AM

The decision, Stanron, was influenced by the future of diesal engines and by Brexit. Just as your choice for your next holiday is influenced by location and price. Or the songs you choose are influence by lyrics and melody.

It is not a difficult concept that decisions can be influenced by many things.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 09:40 PM

No. We can all now agree that Nissan's decision was influenced by the uncertainty over the future of Diesel engined cars in the UK. My mum is now long dead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 09:28 PM

So we can all now agree that Nissan's decision was influenced by the uncertainty over brexit. There, wasn't that easy? No need for any more clutching at brexiteering straws. And you can bet your life that plenty of other companies are considering their positions for the same reason.

My mum has renewed her urgings to get me to apply for Irish citizenship, for which I qualify. Must get a grip on that...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 06:16 PM

Neither I, not anyone in this thread, nor any newspaper article I have read suggested Brexit was the *sole* reason for the Nissan decision. Creating false arguments to demolish is not very respectable.

As to what was an insult in your post: I credit you withenough intelligence to work it out for yourself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 06:02 PM

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 03:36 AM

Nigel
I'm not a primary school teacher and never want to be one
I have put a series of situations about refugeeism and immigration
I have explained why I believe Britain is part of causing the problem and a moral responsibility to deal with it in a humane manner, rather than keeping those suffering from problems we have caused out
I'll put it as simply as I can
Refugees are fleeing from wars we have helped cause largely by our need for oil and our desire to keep countries in 'safe hands' for our own political interests
We helped arm Assad and other despots at a time when the Syrian people, as part as the Arab Spring Protests, were trying to improve conditions in their own countries rather than be forced to leave.
We did so knowing full well that the Assad regime had a track record going back nearly a decade, of rounding up suspected opponents, imprisoning them, torturing them and "disappearing" many thousands of them (Amnesty presented years of evidence that this was still happening)
Britain licenced riot control equipment - tear gas, armed crowd control vehicles and other equipment which helped Assad fill his torture chambers and detention centres
It later transpired that he was sold chemicals by British firms capable of being used in the manufacture of the horrific weapons that were used on Syrian civilians   
At the height of the Homs massacres (possibly carried out by snipers trained with the reported shipment of sniper ammunition licences by Britain), some of Assad's leaders fled their country and begged Britain to take action against him, specifically by seizing his London based property and attempting to bear influence on his regime through Assad's English born wife
Nothing was done, the British Parliament voted not to become involved, and Assad's Representative, his Brother-in-law continued to enter and leave Briain as easily as he did Harrods, on Assad's business
The Syrian protests escalated into civil war and the absence of Western support led to the creation of a massive terrorist threat in the form of Isis.

Can you think of a single reason why refugees from that horrific situation we have helped to create should be refused entry into the counties who helped create it - Britain having been a major player?

The "control of immigration" that the British leaders are now boasting they are carrying out was a major feature in making Brexit the catastrophic threat it has now escalated into

If you have any evidence (other than Iain's "deny everything inconvenient" approach) that any of this is untrue, feel free to present it
Refusal to do so makes you a supporter of it.
Your starter for ten
Jim Carroll


Another long, and confusing diatribe. But I do seem to recognise a question hidden away in there: "Can you think of a single reason why refugees from that horrific situation we have helped to create should be refused entry into the counties who helped create it - Britain having been a major player?"
Without either accepting, or denying, that Britain was involved in creating the situation, I see no reason for us to refuse entry to 'refugees'.
If refugees seek asylum in the UK, and it is their first port of call, we should accept them.
For all other possibilities, look at the UNHCR of 1951 and 1967


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 03:37 PM

From the Sky news site. Not noted for any remain bias.

Gianluca de Ficchy said the decision was a mixture of investment needed for emissions regulations and reduced sales forecasts but added uncertainty over Brexit had also played a part.

Repeated verbatim with no need for further comment.

The article also states

Nissan has told staff in Sunderland the company will not make the new X-Trail there, as previously planned.

The production was previously planned for Sunderland and it no longer is. The European division chief states quite clearly that brexit "played a part" in the decision to move production. Brexit has played a part in loosing work in Sunderland. QED.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 02:53 PM

Gianluca de Ficchy, the Japanese firm's Europe chairman, said that the decision had been taken for "business reasons" affected by rules on diesel engines and reduced sales.

The announcement that the X-Trail would be built in Japan was made in a letter to staff that followed a day of political rows between Brexit supporters and opponents over the reason for one of Wearside's largest employers reneging on a 2016 decision to build the car there.

In the letter Mr de Ficchy said: "Today's announcement will be interpreted by a lot of people as a decision related to Brexit.

"We have taken this decision for the business reasons I've explained but, clearly, the uncertainty around the UK's future relationship with the EU is not helping companies like ours to plan for the future."


I prefer the stated reasons given by Nissan's Gianluca de Ficchy, the Japanese firm's Europe chairman.
obviously brexit creates uncertainty but he gives 3 clear reasons for retaining manufacture elsewhere,
1)The investment required would be considerable.
2)Actual and impending legislation on diesel engines
3)Delining sales

It is newspapers and the union attributing the sole reason to brexit.
I prefer to believe the information given first hand by the company that made the decision.

The Herald six hours ago using my same data comes out with the following headline:
Nissan chief attacks 'Brexit uncertainty' as company confirms new vehicle will be built in Japan not UK.

If that headline has not been spun to the point of being outright lies then tell me what I have misunderstood.

You must point what you mean by invective.(insulting, abusive, or highly critical language.)
I will accept highly critical, but I would regard that as a compliment given for well researched responses.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 01:08 PM

Iains: you know I am one of the few people still prepared to talk to you on this this thread but, like Keith (RIP) in times past, you make it difficult. Nissan said:

"The continued uncertainty around the UK’s future relationship with the EU is not helping companies like ours to plan for the future.”

If you do not think there is any connection between Brexit and our future relationship with the EU, I wonder what you do think.

The final paragraph or so was nothing but invective.

I said quite plainly earlier that I do not like to ignore people, but if it comes to it I will. Kindly stick to the facts as you see them and drop the insults.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 12:43 PM

(Nissan)It acknowledged in a letter to workers: “Today’s announcement will be interpreted by a lot of people as a decision related to Brexit.” the X-Trail is produced in Japan currently and Nissan said keeping production there would reduce “upfront investment costs”.

“Nissan’s announcement is a blow to the sector and the region, as this was to be a further significant expansion of the site and the workforce.The company has confirmed that no jobs will be lost,

Calling the decision “very disappointing news” for Sunderland and the north-east”, the Unite union said it blamed Brexit uncertainty for the decision, along with the government’s “mishandling” of the transition away from diesel.


Nissan said plans over other future models destined for the Sunderland plant – the next-generation Juke and Qashqai – were unaffected by the announcement.

Someone (remainiacs) cannot read or are doing a gyroscopic spin of epic proportions and reporting false News.

Awkward things facts!!

It is the union attributing the decision to brexit, and what does a union know about the investment plans of a Nissan?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 09:32 AM

Nissan has confirmed it is abandoning plans to build a new model of one of its flagship vehicles at its Sunderland plant, as it warned that uncertainty over Brexit is affecting businesses."

Looks like those posting before were in the real world after all

Now for "Yes Minister" stage 3 or 4, I suspect.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 06:21 AM

Seems the Sunday times shows more contact with reality than the remainiacs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 05:08 AM

Nice cartoon in the Sunday Times today shows Tess the Tosser signing for a delivery of a dozen crates of champagne and telling the delivery man - "no, I'm definitely not stockpiling - they're to celebrate when we win"
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 04:56 AM

Good comment by Andrew Rawnsley following Oliver Letwin's speech in the house last week (in the event of problems after Brexit)

The Conservatives will own a nightmare Brexit and it will not just be Remain voters who will take their revenge on the Tory party. It will also be Leave voters. If Brexit goes horribly wrong, Leave voters are not going to find fault with themselves for being suckered by a bogus prospectus, unrealisable promises and a red bus emblazoned with a lie. Leave voters are going to blame the Tories for betraying them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Feb 19 - 04:22 AM

Meanwhile back to the real world, not the imaginary one dreamed up by the kidergarten remainiac cabal here.

From the Torygraph and you gov:
Jeremy Corbyn’s popularity is at an all-time low because voters believe he is “playing politics” with Brexit and can not be trusted.

The Labour leader’s approval rating, which reached its peak in mid-2017 after the general election, has been on the slide ever since, hit by his failure to set out a clear policy on Brexit, and by the anti-Semitism controversy which has dogged his party for years.

A poll by YouGov found that voters who had changed their minds about Mr Corbyn described him as weak, indecisive and out of touch.

Not what even the most deluded here would call a ringing endorsement!
It seems Joe Public is on the money, razor sharp, and staunchly Brexit.
Fine fellows all!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 05:09 PM

I am reminded of the "Yes Minister" script which describes the four stage strategy followed by the Foreign Office: First, "Nothing's going to happen"; Second, "Something may be going to happen, but we should do nothing about it"; Third, "Maybe we should do something, but there's nothing we can do"; and Fourth, "Maybe there was something we could've done, but it's too late now".

It seems that applies to things like the Sunderland reports.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 03:29 PM

This is about the livelihoods of about 7,000 poeple who work at the Nissan plant located in a very deprived area.

More project fear. There are no publicised plans to either cease production of existing models, or layoff workers.

Be nice if you did a bit of fact checking first. But that would not leave you too much to discuss, would it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 03:22 PM

2018/10/30

St. Petersburg, Russia — Nissan has started production of the new X-Trail crossover SUV at its St. Petersburg plant.

The X-Trail is Nissan's best-selling model worldwide and the key upgrades are a more contemporary exterior design, upgraded suspension, greater cabin refinement and additional innovative new Nissan Intelligent Mobility technologies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 02:43 PM

The history of these threads is that they will say firms expand and contract all the time so there is no evidence it has anything to do with Brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 02:34 PM

Some of us have been warning of such things for the past two and a half years.

I take absolutely no pleasure in saying I told you so.

This is about the livelihoods of about 7,000 poeple who work at the Nissan plant located in a very deprived area.

I strongly suspect that this is the shape of things to come.

I wonder if our Brexiteers can cast a good spin of this ..........

....... but I doubt it, they tend not to respond to direct news.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 02:19 PM

I feel awful for saying it but the fact that Sunderland voted firmly for brexit seems to have a certain element of karma...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 02:06 PM

Just announced that Nissan are to pull Production of the new X-Trail SUV from their Sunderland plant, despite assurances given to them by the government in 2016 (source: BBC News).

Clearly, Nissan havevrealised that 'assurances' from May and her bunch of incompetents are worth Sweet FA.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 12:50 PM

.them tory bastards have really screwed us this time - eeeek!

There is many a slip twixt tongue and lip, and as yet, no arias from the fat lady! Alas alack.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 12:11 PM

there are so many hundreds of posts on the 3 threads that urge us to look away from the forest (or consider a few trees in a couple of other irrelevant forests) and examine tiny details on the trees within it. it can be vaguely interesting to be sidetracked this way but then you stand back and look at the big, scary, pointless thing as a whole - and think.......them tory bastards have really screwed us this time - eeeek!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 10:24 AM

"Yea but weer taking are cuntry back..."

Good to see the remainiacs display their erudition and good taste.
Perhaps they should be named collectively as coprolaliacs, or better still banned.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 08:14 AM

The knock -on effect of the Brexiteer's use of populism is getting a little panic-making
First this fiasco, then the election of Trump (and a threatened conflict with North Korea), then the rise of neo-Nazism in Europe, Ireland could have gotten a racist President had not good sense and humanity prevailed....
Now we have the possible reopening of the Arms Race with Russia
I do hope they've forgotten to wind up the nuclear clock!!

" but with us totally ignoring him we can get rid of him."
I very much doubt it Steve
He is now using threads as a soap-box for his ideas (sic) and while he can he doesn't need us.
I ignore him because he says nothing I want to respond to but that shouldn't stop me (or anybody) using him to underline the crassness of Brexit
Will keep it down to minimum (off for a few days tomorrow - maybe by the time I return he will fall victim to Betjeman's "friendly bombs" along with Slough
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 07:24 AM

Meanwhile, quite number of Brexiteers are admitting the possibilities of an extension, most recently Rees-Mogg. At the moment they are saying it is only for sorting out stuff after a deal is agreed, but that looks like a start of movement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 07:18 AM

Any reaction will have him creaming his pants so just don't do it, Jim. Even talking about him rather than to him is fanning his flames so this is my last self defeating post. Complete blank is the only way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 06:40 AM

If he rattles on in his usual manner but with us totally ignoring him we can get rid of him. But not if we succumb to temptation and respond. That's been proven to be bloody useless in any case for a long time now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 06:33 AM

I am Steve
I just used his crassness as an opportunity to underline my point about Britain being implicated in the refugee crisis up to their sordid arses (just as I am using your posting now)
I was brought up with the philosophy that "if a point's woth making, it's worth making as often as possible"
Done and dusted, I think but thanks for the reminder
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 06:26 AM

Bloody Nora, Jim, IGNORE HIM! Cut him dead!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 05:49 AM

See my point fellers
His mentor, Teribus went though all the excuses - a lie, the licence was drawn up but never issued, it was rescinded, the order was far too early to have been used by the snipers, the bullets were the wrong size for use by the Syrian Army..... and several more.
His companion at the time in response to the fact that Britain was licensing such exports , ""all you can come up with is a few sniper rifles" - (his mistake)
The order for this ammunition is still on line yet these people continue to deny it   

Statement by Government Trade minister at the time
"We do trade with governments that are not democratic and have bad human rights records", he told a crossparty group of senior MPs. "We do business with repressive governments and there's no denying that"."
HORSES MOUTH CONFESSION

Keep out of this Iains - it's for the adults
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 05:03 AM

Oh Dear! here we go again, more of little jimmies lies.
At the height of the Homs massacres (possibly carried out by snipers trained with the reported shipment of sniper ammunition licences by Britain),

This is the at least the fifth time you have raised this pack of lies.
For the second time now you have qualified it by "possibly"
Teribus refuted your claims most admirably a long while back. Why keep raising it over and over and over again? Your anglophobia is getting rather boring.
Why not try posting facts? you may find it a novel experience. It would certainly be unique!
Your views on Arab Spring are naive to say the least. Try looking at it in the following context:False Flag

IT is time you woke up as to how the real world works. It is not a pretty chocolate box scene.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 03:36 AM

Nigel
I'm not a primary school teacher and never want to be one
I have put a series of situations about refugeeism and immigration
I have explained why I believe Britain is part of causing the problem and a moral responsibility to deal with it in a humane manner, rather than keeping those suffering from problems we have caused out
I'll put it as simply as I can
Refugees are fleeing from wars we have helped cause largely by our need for oil and our desire to keep countries in 'safe hands' for our own political interests
We helped arm Assad and other despots at a time when the Syrian people, as part as the Arab Spring Protests, were trying to improve conditions in their own countries rather than be forced to leave.
We did so knowing full well that the Assad regime had a track record going back nearly a decade, of rounding up suspected opponents, imprisoning them, torturing them and "disappearing" many thousands of them (Amnesty presented years of evidence that this was still happening)
Britain licenced riot control equipment - tear gas, armed crowd control vehicles and other equipment which helped Assad fill his torture chambers and detention centres
It later transpired that he was sold chemicals by British firms capable of being used in the manufacture of the horrific weapons that were used on Syrian civilians   
At the height of the Homs massacres (possibly carried out by snipers trained with the reported shipment of sniper ammunition licences by Britain), some of Assad's leaders fled their country and begged Britain to take action against him, specifically by seizing his London based property and attempting to bear influence on his regime through Assad's English born wife
Nothing was done, the British Parliament voted not to become involved, and Assad's Representative, his Brother-in-law continued to enter and leave Briain as easily as he did Harrods, on Assad's business
The Syrian protests escalated into civil war and the absence of Western support led to the creation of a massive terrorist threat in the form of Isis.

Can you think of a single reason why refugees from that horrific situation we have helped to create should be refused entry into the counties who helped create it - Britain having been a major player?

The "control of immigration" that the British leaders are now boasting they are carrying out was a major feature in making Brexit the catastrophic threat it has now escalated into

If you have any evidence (other than Iain's "deny everything inconvenient" approach) that any of this is untrue, feel free to present it
Refusal to do so makes you a supporter of it.
Your starter for ten
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 03:32 AM

😂 😂 😂


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 03:19 AM

LOL! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 03:14 AM

Yea but weer taking are cuntry back...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 03:06 AM

From the BBC - an indication of where we're headed when those wonderful post-BrexShit trade deals we've been promised begin to materialise. God help us!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47036119?SThisFB


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Feb 19 - 02:44 AM

True, Kevin, but at least we could view the immigrants from Empire nations as lesser human beings ;-)

John. Nail on the head. They will never admit it and that is only human nature. It is very difficult to admit that you have been conned as some seem to think it indicates that they have been foolish. I can assure all you brexiteers out there who are now realising that you were indeed conned that there is no shame in it. You were conned by the best, who have had years of practice at leading the public up the garden path and had the weight of the popular press behind them. Let it go now. Admit that there is a problem. It is the first step to recovery :-)


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