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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Jim Carroll 03 Apr 19 - 01:41 PM
Jim Carroll 03 Apr 19 - 01:14 PM
Iains 03 Apr 19 - 12:08 PM
Iains 03 Apr 19 - 11:30 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Apr 19 - 10:58 AM
Stanron 03 Apr 19 - 10:56 AM
DMcG 03 Apr 19 - 10:46 AM
Backwoodsman 03 Apr 19 - 10:46 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Apr 19 - 10:33 AM
Stanron 03 Apr 19 - 10:17 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Apr 19 - 10:13 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Apr 19 - 10:10 AM
Stanron 03 Apr 19 - 09:41 AM
Rain Dog 03 Apr 19 - 09:24 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Apr 19 - 09:11 AM
Iains 03 Apr 19 - 08:57 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 03 Apr 19 - 07:48 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 03 Apr 19 - 07:47 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Apr 19 - 06:10 AM
DMcG 03 Apr 19 - 04:00 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Apr 19 - 03:50 AM
DMcG 03 Apr 19 - 03:34 AM
Backwoodsman 03 Apr 19 - 03:04 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Apr 19 - 03:04 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Apr 19 - 07:30 PM
Raggytash 02 Apr 19 - 06:46 PM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 04:29 PM
Raggytash 02 Apr 19 - 04:18 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 02:52 PM
DMcG 02 Apr 19 - 01:25 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 01:17 PM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 01:17 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 12:23 PM
Raggytash 02 Apr 19 - 11:56 AM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 11:24 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 10:59 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 10:39 AM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 10:17 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 09:38 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 09:38 AM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 09:06 AM
David Carter (UK) 02 Apr 19 - 08:43 AM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 08:34 AM
DMcG 02 Apr 19 - 08:29 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 08:22 AM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 08:17 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Apr 19 - 07:27 AM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 07:05 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Apr 19 - 07:03 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Apr 19 - 06:14 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 01:41 PM

You're a lying bastard

and of course the returning traffic carrying 40% of the food to Claire will face the exact same problems- THAT should wipe the smirk off your face!

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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 01:14 PM

Isn't it great to see two partiots sneering at Britain's dilemma
On par with one of them gloating that Ireland would be dragged down into the swamp Brexit has created, higher up this thread
Humanity and compassion rules OK in their world - Nigel and Tommy should be proud of you
Ji, Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 12:08 PM

"Vote Leave, Get Remain.
Vote May, Get Corbyn.
Any Deal is Better than No Deal.
Ad vomitum. Even God himself appears to have had enough of this disingenuous lot."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 11:30 AM

Another minister resigned. The dominoes slowly tumble. The choice between troughing and conscience plays out slowly!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 10:58 AM

Wasn't intending to - Stanron is what he is but he doesn't resort to personal abuse as does our resident representative Brexiteer who makes response unnecessary by his own behaviour (spoilsport)
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 10:56 AM

I've said this before and I won't be surprised if I say it again in the future. The only way to actually and fully leave the European Union is with 'No Deal'. Every little bit of a deal ties us to the European Union and it's rules. Remainers know this and this is why they insist on taking No Deal off the table. They want to take leaving the EU off the table. The stratagem is deeply dishonest but not unrecognised.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 10:46 AM

Now cross-party talks are under way, it is worth revisiting the canard that both parties supported Brexit in their manifesto. This claim completely ignores the fact that they had dramatically different views of what Brexit was (and there is no reason whatever to assume all 17.4 million voted for the same thing, so there is good reason that at least some of the 17.4m meant what Labour meant)

For interest, here is an extract from the Labour manifesto:


Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first. We will prioritise jobs and living standards, build a close new relationship with the EU, protect workers’ rights and environmental standards, provide certainty to EU nationals and give a meaningful role to Parliament throughout negotiations. We will end Theresa May’s reckless approach to Brexit, and seek to unite the country around a Brexit deal that works for every community in Britain. We will scrap the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain. Labour will always put jobs and the        economy        first.        A Labour government will immediately guarantee existing rights for all EU nationals living in Britain and secure reciprocal rights for UK citizens who have chosen to make their lives in EU countries. EU nationals do not just contribute to our society: they are part of our society. And they should not be used as bargaining chips.


So what Labour meant in their definition of Brexit included the benefits of single market, customs union, and protection of EU nationals. If that is not what you think Brexit is, then by definition you cannot claim that Labour promised whatever you do think it means in the last election.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 10:46 AM

JAMES - DON’T FEED THE TROLLS!

FFS, you’ve got the pair of them on your case, playing you like an old fiddle now - how many more bloody times do you need to be told?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 10:33 AM

"Stanron wrote: No surprise there then."
That's what I meant
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 10:17 AM

Stanron wrote: No surprise there then.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 10:13 AM

Stanron has already had his answer - many times but as he appears to make a point of ignoring everything anybody says, it seems a waste of energy to try again
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 10:10 AM

"What wedge is this? Between those who want to remain and those who want to leave the EU? "
Brexit was based on putting the blame for Britain's increasing problems on the number of foreigners coming in, which automatically had repercussions on British citizens from other ethnic backgrounds - the beginning of a wedge
The fact that the majority was as small as it was created an almost fifty-fifty division among those who voted, leaving those who didn't to stand and watch, I have little doubt, first in bewilderment, then in growing horror
The vicious animosity displayed by the leavers, hate mail, threats of recrimination... were outlined in an article in yesterday's Times by a non political remainer describing the behaviour of former friends and neighbours
None of this would have happened if Brexit had been planned

"I get fed up with the politicians and political commentators who say this sort of thing. "
And I get fed up with people who cant see what's under theirnoses
Before the echoes of the referendum result had died down, racist incidents, including acts of violence, had begun - these have continued way past the highest number ever recorded in British history

There you go - Can't blue clickie
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-hate-crimes-racism-eu-referendum-vote-attacks-increase-police-figures-official-a7358866.html

Jo Cox's widower, nice man as he appears to be, denied any connection between the murder of his wife and Brexit - I wonder would that still be his opinion ?

The 'White Jihadist' Nazi scum are about to be tried for plotting to murder a woman Labour MP -
Racist groups like any of Tommy Robinson's present or former parties you care to name, are becoming more active (it's no coincidence that Robinson was one of those who gave limited support to Brievik)
Populism that sold Brexit is based on prejudice, which in its turn, gives rise to racial and cultural tension, which, in its turn inevitably leads to violence
That train has already left the British station
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 09:41 AM

If you have another referendum why would you expect anybody to abide by the result? People who voted to leave would expect their vote to be ignored again and people who voted to remain would just ignore the result again. Nothing would be settled. It would be a totally worthless waste of money and time. Oh, but hang on! This is what Labour does. It wastes money and time. No surprise there then.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 09:24 AM

Jim posts: "the UK needs some form of co-operation to remove the wedge that has been driven between the British people"

What wedge is this? Between those who want to remain and those who want to leave the EU?

Jim posts: "A divided country will inevitably lead to bloodshed"
I get fed up with the politicians and political commentators who say this sort of thing. It just seems like stirring to me. The country is divided and it seems extremely unlikely that that will change in the foreseeable future.

I voted remain but was not surprised by the result. I thought it would be close and it was. I have little doubt that if we had another referendum the result would be close again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 09:11 AM

"Tread carefully, Jeremy. There's a trap afoot."
Not sure there's a trap - traps take planning and the Tory's skill at that political art has become fairly obvious
I have more faith in Corbyn to avoid aligning himself with these morons than I would have in New Belabour and I don't see him as a career politician
He needs to remember that The Irish Labour Party were virtually wiped out for taking part in a coalition with rats in trouble
At least he hasn't used the crisis the Tories and Ukip have created for party-political advantage (never thought I'd say that) - the UK needs some form of co-operation to remove the wedge that has been driven between the British people
A divided country will inevitably lead to bloodshed
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 08:57 AM

Carry on mayhem! There is no need to make it up!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 07:48 AM

Whoa, sorry! I should be thanking DMcG


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 07:47 AM

Wow, Jim. Saving that. (Pity it's written by someone called Cameron.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 06:10 AM

Ha, that's brilliant! He's had plenty of people ringing alarm bells. As Polly Toynbee was saying this morning, Brexit is purely a Tory mess and Jeremy must ensure that Labour doesn't get tainted by it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 04:00 AM

The Compassionate Fool


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 03:50 AM

Tread carefully, Jeremy. There's a trap afoot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 03:34 AM

I have some sympathy for the right wing press who may either have to accept the demon Corbyn as a saviour, or say the Brexit he has helped negotiate is so bad you should vote remain in a deal/remain referendum.

Not a lot of sympathy, of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 03:04 AM

If she’d made BrexShit a cross-party project three years ago, we wouldn’t be in this disastrous dung-heap, and the laughing-stock of the rest of the world, that we are now.

But, of course, she had instructions from others - far wealthier, and thus, far more powerful than her - to obey, which meant she had to keep everyone else, including most of her own government, out of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 19 - 03:04 AM

"Oooh, I believe a cage has been rattled!!"
Apparently so
This is the feller who claims it's Anglophobic to critcise British politicians and that you have to apply for a visa if you wish to do so
I've changed my mind about wanting him gone - I think we need an example of what's happening to Britain
Raggy's right, of course - 'hands off cocks and on with your socks' - a new day dawns

Just received a long document from Google explaining the changes to their relationship with those living outside the U.K. don't understand a word of it, but I suppose I shall when I buy anything on line
Off for the paper later - can't wait for my morning laugh-in with the local farmers
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 07:30 PM

Just ignore or talk past the daft bugger, Raggytash.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 06:46 PM

Oooh, I believe a cage has been rattled!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 04:29 PM

"Mrs May further angered the Tory backbenchers by stating her intentions to work with Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn to “try to agree a plan". Mr Rees-Mogg slammed Mrs May’s strategy to work with ”a known Marxist” and insisted the public “did not vote for a Corbyn-May coalition Government”. European Research Group chairman also warned the Prime Minister history did not show success for political leaders who tried to get policy through the Commons "on the back of Opposition votes". The leading Brexiteer added this approach is “deeply unsatisfactory” and is “not in the interests of the country”.

Colluding with commie corbyn is going to end in tears for the tories.

The plot thickens. They are setting the stage where each can blame the other for the betrayal of brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 04:18 PM

'Treason May' eh.

What happened to we must be respectful to our politicans?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 02:52 PM

TOMMY ROBINSON CALLING - TOMMY ROBINSON CALLING
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 01:25 PM

Gone within a week? I think not, but on 9th we can revisit your prediction. Remember the EU summit is on the 10th.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 01:17 PM

May calls for a 'National Unity' approach to Brexit and proposes a meeting with Corbyn on an agreed way forward
Talk on internal coup by the hardliners
Sounded like a wartime broadcast to me
"Westminster calling - Westminster calling"
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 01:17 PM

Bye bye treason May. Gone within the week. Connive with corbyn and destroy the tories. Election coming!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 12:23 PM

"Funny I thought she'd had almost 3 years."
Somebody ought to get life for this criminal behaviour
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 11:56 AM

Funny I thought she'd had almost 3 years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 11:24 AM

My abject apologies fellers

We need far far more grovelling off you first!

"The Prime Minister’s continental counterparts have given her just six days to make her Brexit strategy clear ahead of an emergency summit in Brussels next week. Amid fears of a no-deal Brexit, Europe has urged Mrs May to details on whether she will pursue a hard divorce or a long Article 50 extension. EU leaders’ intervention comes after another failed attempt by MPs in Westminster to build a majority for an alternative Brexit plan last night."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 10:59 AM

My abject apologies fellers but a Brexiteer scurrying behind 'The Rule of Law' was really too good an opportunity to pass up
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 10:39 AM

Rule of Law - Bingo !!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 10:17 AM

The rules for referenda need to be well-thought out and a block put on the use of the type of populism that gave the world Brexit and Trump - the use of 'scapegoating' needs to be outlawed
Britain allowed Farage and the now discredited Ukip to run riot a disgraced Party and a swaggering no-nothing

A stunning example of a total misunderstanding of the democratic electoral process and a wilful contempt for the rule of law. What a halfwit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 09:38 AM

"On top of that, I can't bring myself ever to want any referendum about anything at all."
Perhaps you should read how they've moved Ireland on from the first half of the 20th century by some of the progressive decisions that have been taken comparatively recently
Trusting the people really has worked a treat here as have public displays of disapproval, despite indifference and opposition on the part of politicians and parties
The rules for referenda need to be well-thought out and a block put on the use of the type of populism that gave the world Brexit and Trump - the use of 'scapegoating' needs to be outlawed
Britain allowed Farage and the now discredited Ukip to run riot a disgraced Party and a swaggering no-nothing
Not something to be proud of
The other aspect of Irish democracy that is preventing a mess like Britain has become is Proportional Representation - it is noteworthy that this was the fist think to be discarded in the creation of a sectarian State in the Northern Counties
Whatever the result of Brexit, it's going to take a long time before anybody takes British Parliamentary Politics seriously again - inside and outside the UK
A sharp cleaning out of the Augean Stables might - just - do it
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 09:38 AM

"On top of that, I can't bring myself ever to want any referendum about anything at all."
Perhaps you should read how they've moved Ireland on from the first half of the 20th century by some of the progressive decisions that have been taken comparatively recently
Trusting the people really has worked a treat here as have public displays of disapproval, despite indifference and opposition on the part of politicians and parties
The rules for referenda need to be well-thought out and a block put on the use of the type of populism that gave the world Brexit and Trump - the use of 'scapegoating' needs to be outlawed
Britain allowed Farage and the now discredited Ukip to run riot a disgraced Party and a swaggering no-nothing
Not something to be proud of
The other aspect of Irish democracy that is preventing a mess like Britain has become is Proportional Representation - it is noteworthy that this was the fist think to be discarded in the creation of a sectarian State in the Northern Counties
Whatever the result of Brexit, it's going to take a long time before anybody takes British Parliamentary Politics seriously again - inside and outside the UK
A sharp cleaning out of the Augean Stables might - just - do it
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 09:06 AM

David Carter We already have Parliament usurping the government in the Commons. Constitutionally this is new territory with zero accountability. Couple that will betrayal of article 50 and I think revolt will occur.
If legislation is forced through by an unaccountable body democracy has ceased and parliament no longer has legitimacy.
This may make remainiacs very happy but only until the unintended consequences kick in(or more likely kick off. Be very careful of whatyou wish for!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 08:43 AM

We have another choice which is to revoke article 50, and put the whole sorry episode behind us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 08:34 AM

The poll above, if accurate, shows a wide divergence of the two camps compared to all other polls over the last two years.
I see we have three choices
crash out no deal
May's treaty trapping us within the EU with no representation
Have a long extension(getting more and more unlikely) and renegotiate with a brand new elected team after an inevitable election.

This is what the endless betrayal and prevarication of MPs has brought us to.

Heaping insults on brexiteers and calling them vermin just shows the total inadequacy of the remainers arguments as they continue to try to frustrate the clearly stated wishes of the majority.

When will all the whining finally stop I wonder?

Bring on the crash!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 08:29 AM

Oh, dear, what a leading question.

All that actually shows is that the risk of people being manipulated is indeed very high.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 08:22 AM

It seems fairly inevitable from a statement from the EU that unless the marathon 5 hour Cabinet meeting (by a Cabinet that is incapable of finding its own arse with both hands) reaches a decision today, the two alternatives are to crash out or put Brexit on yet another long finger (the latter is very unlikely, the former would be devastating for Britain and its neighbours)
Brexit has drawn out venomous rats by their swarms now, Robinson, Farage and now THESE SCUM
Bastards like these thrive on instability of the kind that Britain is now heading for
We live in dangerous times, to avoid allowing the vermin feeding on a leadership incapable of leading and a people who are rapidly reaching the point of simply not caring, something has to be done - and quick
Someone needs to re-read pre-war history
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 08:17 AM

New ComRes polling commissioned by Leave Means Leave yesterday has found a significant shift in favour of a No Deal Brexit, with voters agreeing with the statement “Theresa May should go back to her promise that No Deal is better than a bad deal and leave to trade on WTO rules” by 63% to 37%, excluding don’t knows. Including don’t knows, just 29% disagree with it…


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 07:27 AM

"Steve,
Don't agree with your take on a second vote
A survey has already indicated that the Remainers have a clear guarantee - if this is not enough, surely none of those who couldn't ae their minds up to vote the first time will not be stupid enough to stay at home after these years long displays of ineptitude..."

Well a survey I read about just yesterday (can't remember for the life of me where I read about it) suggested that remain/leave was at 54%/46% with a lot of undecideds (who weren't included in the totting up). That isn't comfortable at all, I don't think. Many remainers were reluctant remainers, and a good number would see another vote (incorrectly) as an affront to democracy. They might either abstain or even vote leave next time round. On the other hand, I should think that just about every leave voter, and more, would be indignant enough to turn out again next time round. And the leave campaign would be the joker in the pack. You can just see it now: democracy betrayed, the will of the people thwarted...all bollocks, but incredibly hard to counteract.

I wouldn't argue against another vote on these grounds just because I think the result would be the wrong one, but, let's face it, whatever the result it would be another close-run thing, and a narrow remain victory would foment huge trouble. On top of that, I can't bring myself ever to want any referendum about anything at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 07:05 AM

A survey has already indicated that the Remainers have a clear guarantee>/I>

A clear guarantee of what?   I do like a reasoned discussion!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 07:03 AM

And amen John, Pete and DMcG...

Ann Widdecombe is pure pantomime, a plight of her own making. I saw her last night and I couldn't help thinking of Cissie and Ada but without the laughs. Strike me down...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Apr 19 - 06:14 AM

Amen, Pete.

Ain't gonna happen though, no matter how hard we hope for it. Their tax-dodges take priority over everyone else's best interests.


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