mudcat.org: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] [50] [51] [52] [53] [54] [55] [56] [57] [58] [59] [60] [61] [62] [63] [64] [65]


BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Big Al Whittle 03 Jun 19 - 02:24 AM
Dave the Gnome 03 Jun 19 - 02:21 AM
DMcG 03 Jun 19 - 02:11 AM
Big Al Whittle 02 Jun 19 - 07:01 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Jun 19 - 05:07 PM
Big Al Whittle 02 Jun 19 - 04:13 PM
Iains 02 Jun 19 - 04:05 PM
David Carter (UK) 02 Jun 19 - 02:43 PM
Backwoodsman 02 Jun 19 - 01:31 PM
DMcG 02 Jun 19 - 01:25 PM
Backwoodsman 02 Jun 19 - 10:30 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jun 19 - 10:20 AM
DMcG 02 Jun 19 - 09:57 AM
Big Al Whittle 02 Jun 19 - 09:48 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Jun 19 - 09:40 AM
Iains 02 Jun 19 - 09:28 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jun 19 - 09:13 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jun 19 - 09:08 AM
Iains 02 Jun 19 - 08:50 AM
Stanron 02 Jun 19 - 08:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jun 19 - 08:35 AM
Stanron 02 Jun 19 - 08:31 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jun 19 - 08:31 AM
Iains 02 Jun 19 - 08:12 AM
David Carter (UK) 02 Jun 19 - 08:12 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jun 19 - 07:41 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jun 19 - 07:39 AM
Big Al Whittle 02 Jun 19 - 06:49 AM
Iains 02 Jun 19 - 05:45 AM
Big Al Whittle 02 Jun 19 - 05:08 AM
DMcG 02 Jun 19 - 04:43 AM
DMcG 02 Jun 19 - 04:28 AM
Iains 02 Jun 19 - 04:25 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jun 19 - 04:21 AM
DMcG 02 Jun 19 - 02:41 AM
Big Al Whittle 01 Jun 19 - 11:03 PM
Big Al Whittle 01 Jun 19 - 02:47 PM
Mr Red 01 Jun 19 - 10:44 AM
Iains 01 Jun 19 - 07:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Jun 19 - 07:19 AM
Backwoodsman 01 Jun 19 - 05:56 AM
Iains 01 Jun 19 - 05:48 AM
peteaberdeen 01 Jun 19 - 05:27 AM
Iains 01 Jun 19 - 03:48 AM
DMcG 01 Jun 19 - 02:42 AM
DMcG 01 Jun 19 - 02:22 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Jun 19 - 01:55 AM
Big Al Whittle 31 May 19 - 09:47 PM
Backwoodsman 31 May 19 - 12:28 PM
Big Al Whittle 31 May 19 - 12:23 PM
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jun 19 - 02:24 AM

This I realise, The EEC regulations were a handy figleaf to cover the obscenity of monetarism.

Still, as the bard has it, the EEC regulations encapsulated the zeitgeist of the murder of our industrial heartland. Quite an instrument!

Bad luck to quote the Scottish play!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jun 19 - 02:21 AM

They would not need financial aid if they were decent cars and the factories better managed. The only reason they are collectors items is that so few of them survived. Why do you think the Trabant is so sought after? Besides,

A) We still have a car industry albeit owned elsewhere and
B) As I keep pointing out, the UK had as much, if not more, say in Europen legislation as the other members.

If we leave the EU we will have even less of a car industry and no say at all in European legislation. Still, you will have got rid of your lawless East Europeans so I suppose you think it's worth it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Jun 19 - 02:11 AM

As Shakespeare put it:
Thou marshall'st me the way that I was going;
And such an instrument I was to use.


It was ever the case that if a government does not want to give act in a certain way, it will look for reasons not to. The EU restrictions are not absolute, but they were a handy additional excuse for not helping the sorts of industries you refer to, Al. It was not really the case that the government was desperate to support such industries and the nasty EU prevented them.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 07:01 PM

the point is Steve..... Fiat, Skoda, Renault etc are all still there, despite their many sins - whereas our car factories bit the dust - mainly because their governments helped them face down the beast from the east.

As with the British motorbikes many of the cars have become design classics...the Singer Gazelle, Triumph TR7, the Reliant Scimitar, the Moggy Minor. Bet theres not many Skoda Estelle colectors out there. Not even amongst the Euro remain enthusiasts!

We were told government finacial aid was unfair competition to our gallant EEC comrades. EEc regulations...sorry old cock, nothing to be done!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 05:07 PM

Yeah, right, Al. You appear to have forgotten the Morris Marina, the All Agro, the Maxi and the Maestro. The bloke next door to me bought a brand new Marina and was proudly showing it off to me the day he had it delivered. I reluctantly had to point out to him the widespread rust in its seams. I had the misfortune to borrow a Maestro from a mate for 18 months as he went on a world tour. It would take me three hours to tell you how terrible that car was, not least because there was no way on God's earth, despite all the mechanical knowledge on the planet brought to bear on it, that you could get that car to do more than 25 to the gallon. Actually, three hours would be too long, as the bloody thing rusted away in less time than that. And don't even begin to ask me about my Triumph Dolomite.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 04:13 PM

all the cars were crap in that era.....the renault 4, the renault dauphine, the fiat 5, the skoda estelle, the beetle, the citroen dayane (The RAC man next door told me - please don't call me if you buy that shit.)

Still if you want to talk down British industry that sort of fits in with the Remainer philosophy.

The Aveling Barford Dumper truck division I worked for had a waiting list of seven years. The Charnos and Aristoc tights factory had full order books and order books stretching forward for four years.. French people used to come to the midlands to patronise the factory shops of viyella and celestion wood.

All gone. The result serious social problems. Homelessness, broken communities, hard drugs. I can't convince you - but that's what motivates the people you are calling brexshitters and little Englanders.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 04:05 PM

compare and contrast


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 02:43 PM

I can remember a time when English manufactured cars outnumbered foreign ones at the side of the road with their bonnets up, it was the foreign ones which were actually moving. Things improved when foreign companies bought out many of the failed British ones and introduced their own management practices. And the availability of fish has declined, that is true, and is entirely a result of overfishing. Who fished out the North Sea Herring, it was largely the British who then deserted the industry when the catches declined. If you think there is economic desolation, you have seen nothing compared with the post brexit landscape, with no export markets. And if the financial services sector goes, who is going to pay the taxes to fund the benefits which the failed post-industrial communities rely on? You (Big Al) have a rose tinted vision of times gone by which is not in accord with reality. Things were utterly crap in the 50s, which seems to be the era you yearn for.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 01:31 PM

If the Brexit-Bunch think the EU has given it to the UK straight up the arse, they ain't seen nothing yet. Wait until we're the serfs of the US, then they'll know what a ruptured anal sphincter feels like.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 01:25 PM

US Ambassador says US wants discussion of access to NHS under trade deal

I watched the whole Andrew Marr show. This is an accurate summary in my view. But neither it or Marr explored how the idea of letting the wnd customer decide between products to EU standards and US standards cannot work without a hard border.

There was also a lot of nonsense spoken by Leadsom and Javid, especially in the light of the ambassador's comments.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 10:30 AM

Too late.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 10:20 AM

As has been pointed out, Al. The regulations you seem to believe (incorrectly) have had a detrimental effect on the UK are either ones that the UK had a major role in defining or have nothing to do with the EU anyway. Blaming the EU is what the media barons, power brokers and money men do. Don't fall for their lies.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 09:57 AM

It is not illogical to point out that one of the candidates (Raab) and one person who may yet become a candidate (Patel) collaborated in a book advocating getting rid of many such regulations (Britannia Unchained)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 09:48 AM

No they are not for our benefit. The areas of economic desolation in the country prove it. do you remember atime when English manufactured cars out numbered foreign ones on our roads? Not to mention the fishing industry which stretched round our whole coast.

I don't need some twat of a journalist to tell me what I have been witnessing for forty yeras, and what you would have seen too, if you'd been affected.

Oh then we get...that was the wicked tories...no it bloody wasn't ...it started during a Labour administration and went on uninterrrupted by any change of administration because so many of our politicians are corrupt.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 09:40 AM

”Those regulations are for our benefit. They ensure that the food we buy is safe to eat, that our employers have to make us safe at work for example. I want those regulations kept.
Regulation started in the UK long before the EU
In 1833 the Government passed a Factory Act to improve conditions for children working in factories.
The first law in British history to regulate the production and sale of food began in 1266. The Assisa Panis et Cervisić, or Assize of Bread and Ale was developed in late Medieval English Law to regulate the price, weight and quality of manufactured bread and beer.
Mines and Collieries Act 1842, commonly known as the Mines Act 1842, was an act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. It prohibited all girls and boys under ten years old from working underground in coal mines
Adulteration of Food and Drink and Drugs Act 1872 made the appointment of public analysts mandatory and made it an offence to sell mixtures (chicory and coffee, for example) unless these was declared. The Act covered drugs for first time, introduced an element of central control.
Of course more recently the Cullen report on piper alpha caused a stepchange in safety in the entire worldwide oil industry

As can be demonstrated the UK was the first country to initiate legislation to protect people in the industrial age, therefore such continued legislation is not dependent on the EU.
It is completely illogical to believe such legislation would cease after leaving the EU.”


And, for precisely the reasons you have kindly detailed above, it is completely illogical to believe such legislation has been, as Al has allowed himself to be brainwashed into believing, ‘forced upon us’ by the EU. The UK has been willing and co-operative partners with the rest of the EU, not held by it in helpless serfdom, the way Brexshiteers would have the feeble-minded believe.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 09:28 AM

Why bother?
Your link also includes the following:

There are many employment-related issues that are not subject to EU legislation. These include pay (the National Minimum Wage is a home-grown policy), industrial action, and vocational training. Enforcement mechanisms, which are essential if rights are to be respected in practice, are also a matter for national governments alone

If the UK leaves the EU, it not clear that there will be a bonfire of employment legislation.
so why make an issue of it? more scare tactics?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 09:13 AM

Try again.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 09:08 AM

Many brexit campaigners want to scrap workers rights


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 08:50 AM

Those regulations are for our benefit. They ensure that the food we buy is safe to eat, that our employers have to make us safe at work for example. I want those regulations kept.
Regulation started in the UK long before the EU
In 1833 the Government passed a Factory Act to improve conditions for children working in factories.
The first law in British history to regulate the production and sale of food began in 1266. The Assisa Panis et Cervisić, or Assize of Bread and Ale was developed in late Medieval English Law to regulate the price, weight and quality of manufactured bread and beer.
Mines and Collieries Act 1842, commonly known as the Mines Act 1842, was an act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. It prohibited all girls and boys under ten years old from working underground in coal mines
Adulteration of Food and Drink and Drugs Act 1872 made the appointment of public analysts mandatory and made it an offence to sell mixtures (chicory and coffee, for example) unless these was declared. The Act covered drugs for first time, introduced an element of central control.
Of course more recently the Cullen report on piper alpha caused a stepchange in safety in the entire worldwide oil industry

As can be demonstrated the UK was the first country to initiate legislation to protect people in the industrial age, therefore such continued legislation is not dependent on the EU.
It is completely illogical to believe such legislation would cease after leaving the EU.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 08:45 AM

One of the parallels I see is that after the most devastating civil war this country has ever known, the Long Parliament wanted to put things back as they had been before the war and restore Charles to the throne.

Now after a bitterly divisive referendum campaign Parliament wants to put things back as they had been before the vote.

Will we see the Brexit party take the place of the New Model Army and give us a 'New Rump Parliament'?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 08:35 AM

now it is The People against Parliament.

Just now many people, Stanron? Even if all 17.4 million who voted against staying in the EU felt strongly enough to do something it is still well under 1/3 of "the people". I wouldn't bother with the popcorn if I were you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 08:31 AM

Anyone remember how the Long Parliament got to be the the Rump Parliament and why? I can see parallels between then and now although I'm not sure which way those parallels go. We have an unresolved referendum, they had an unresolved civil war. Then it was Parliament against Charles, now it is The People against Parliament.

More popcorn anyone?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 08:31 AM

Here's a good place to start, Al.

Euromyths

Including all you need to know about the false news on bananas and many, many other bits of complete nonsense.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 08:12 AM

bent bananas?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 08:12 AM

Those regulations are for our benefit. They ensure that the food we buy is safe to eat, that our employers have to make us safe at work for example. I want those regulations kept. All of them, and more. Without them irresponsible and unsavoury people and countries will be able to put any old rubbish on the dinner tables of our children. And the US ambassador has made it clear that his country intends to do exactly that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 07:41 AM

Had a hand in passing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 07:39 AM

The killer argument is that the EU has passed hundred of regulations

That has proven to be nonsense over and over again, Al. The UK has been an important part of the EU for nearly 50 years. We have played a major role in getting these "hundred of rehulations" (sic) passed. If there was anything we were dead set against, we could veto it. If we leave the EU and want to sell to the remaining member states we will still have to comply to their regulations. The difference being we will no longer have a say in What they are. You have fallen prey to the media anti-EU campaign that has gone on since we joined. Do yourself a favour and look up whether any of the Sun or Mail scare stories about bent bananas, banning playtime or any other such nonsense are actually true. Find me one bit of poor legislation the we have not had a passing over the last 50 years.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 06:49 AM

Well I don't see how Brexit can happen, when our elected representatives are all dead set against it.

I tend to think parliamentary power trumps these crummy referendums and any euro nonsense.

Shouldn't get too excited Iains - its never going to happen.

But basically I agree. Sling out the the monarchy, and the aristocracy, and the Russian gangsters, de glamourise recreational drugs put them on the NHS (thus getting rid of many criminals) - spend the money on building hi tech infrastructure and factories.

The red revolution! Then think Boris and Farage. In europe or out, a right couple of wankers!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 05:45 AM

Al, the reality is that people do not want to be bossed by faceless
bureaucrats based in Brussels and Strasbourg, neither do they want to pay annual reparations of Danegeld. They want some semblance of control over their own lives and see the EU encroaching on every aspect of living like a demented Orwellian nightmare from 1984. They want their sovereignty back.
When the Bilderberg conference of 2019 will have the following topics(among others) it is time to be worried. Arch globalists are not your friends.
The key topics for discussion this year are:

1. A Stable Strategic Order
2. What Next for Europe?

6. The Future of Capitalism
7. Brexit (how to frustrate it more likely)

Trickle down is a myth to fool the little people. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
(the name is Iain by the way. It had already been used hence the s on the end)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 05:08 AM

That's not the killer argument Iains (is that really a name with an 'S' on the end?).

If you'd done a referendum on tn the days after the Warrington bombing, Warren Point, Enniskillen, or The Birmingham and pub bombing - they would have reintroduced capital punishment. That would have attracted millions of US dollars to the IRA - the Yank politicians were already lining up for photo opportunities with McGuinness and Adams.

The killer argument is that the EU has passed hundred of regulations that have impacted on fishing, car making, agriculture, textiles, and tax regulstions about music royalties which affect the economy of England - regulations which they don't observe - but we being a law abiding nation, do.

People who live in affluent parts of the country or who follow professions unaffected don't see it, or give a fig or a fart about their less fortunate citizens, whom they characterise as Brexshitter oafs. Don't sink to their level.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 04:43 AM

We cross-posted, Iains. My comment about vague generalities was not directed at your post.

When I was a member of Charter '88 one of the demands was for a written constitution. Mrs Thatcher wrote a response that said many of the most despotic countries had a written constitution. On that, at least, she was quite right: such a constitution is not a solution, it is at best a tool, and it is a tool that only works within the rule of law. Claims the judges are enemies of the people does not fit well with calls for a legal framework like a constitution.

And of course it is unfortunately nearly unavoidable to consider the rise and fall of the Weimar Republic when thinking about this. Introduction of a new constitution, reform of the houses and then takeover by a demagogue is not really I model I would want to follow. Again, I believe most Brexiteers would not want that either. SO what do they think can be done to prevent it?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 04:28 AM

It was not really a rhetorical question, Dave. I think most remainers do think what you said is more or less right.

But Brexiteers proclaim their love for their country, and I am sure the vast majority do so honestly. SO presumably they do not wish asset stripping to be the next stage after Brexit. So what they do think the Brexit Party will do should Brexit be completed is an interesting question. I hope they can answer with more than vague generalities.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 04:25 AM

Farage can use one argument that trumps all others: Respect the referendum result. This is a killer argument for both Tory and Labour parties because their respective MPs in many areas are betraying the vote for article 50 and the last election manifesto for both parties.
This raises questions about the duty of an MP towards his electorate in a way that has never before brought into such stark contrast between a referendum promise, a manifesto promise and arrogant dismissal of the electorate.
The no confidence vote in Phillip Lee in Guido has generated nearly a thousand comments. An interesting read on the span of electoral feeling.
    I recommend it is read. It can explain why Farage has such a level of support for his party and it is increasing. The more labour and tory behave like rabid rats in a sack the greater their destruction.
The establishment is scared stiff of Farage and the Brexit party because on his simple message he is unassailable. It is not purely about Brexit, it is about respecting democracy. That argument has gained support from both sides of the spectrum and the longer the political bunfight among the two parties continues the more support he gains.
Ideally, the long term the establishment of the Brexit Party as a dominant force could lead to a written constitution and root and branch reform of both houses. Such actions are unthinkable under the present regime. It would be nice to think the couple of deselection procedures presently underway turn into a flood. There is no shortage of candidates.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 04:21 AM

I guess it is a rhetorical question DMcG. We all know what comes after. Farage and others like him are just it it for money and power. Without EU intervention they will be free to asset strip the UK and turn it into a tax haven in which to keep their ill gotten gains. We can only hope some semblance of reason returns to the electorate before that happens.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Jun 19 - 02:41 AM

I agree with that, Al. Throwing insults around doesn't help anyone or inform anyone. I don't subscribe to the idea we are about winning an argument here - no one is likely to change anyone else's mind. So the best we can gain out of it is an understanding of the other's point of view, with the objective of understanding it, not demolishing it.

So, for example, Iains said at one point 'it has moved beyond Brexit now' and there is, I suspect, a lot of truth in that. Imagine for a moment that the new Tory leader was the hardest of hard Brexiteers, and somehow took Britain out of the EU as near immediately as possible. Does anyone believe Farage would then emulate Holmes and retire to the Sussex Downs to quietly keep bees? I don't, for one. He would probably say something along the lines of the traditional parties being forced into it by his party, it shows the power he wealds and only he can be the True Saviour of Democracy. And it is for this reason I ask about what Brexit supporters think his plans are if he gets no-deal implemented. Because we can be pretty sure he has ideas for after that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 11:03 PM

Yes sometimes political debate on this site makes me feel like Private Godfrey....I don't like that sort of thing...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 02:47 PM

I don't think remainiac is any more elevated than talking of brexshitters.

Or really any more likely to produce sensible debate.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 10:44 AM

in our award winning Farmers' Market - Godsell (local cheesemeisters) were selling one particular cheese Called "Brexit, 3 years old, divides opinion"

I posted it on Fakebook with the (true) comment "Hard Cheese"
& ............
"difficult to swallow, and don't come cheap"

Ya gotta larf, innit?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 07:54 AM

Now to get back to brexit. A headline from the "Independent"

"The Conservative leadership contest is dominated by white men who've furthered inequality in various departments. The winner will be chosen by a membership who are 71 per cent male, 97 per cent white and 44 per cent aged over 65"

"The choice of Tory party leader will be unrepresentative and undemocratic. And yet this prime minister could be the one to lead us back into or out of Europe."

and yes it has been confirmed, the Pope is a Catholic.

This is the sort of whining expected from the gruniard.

Strangely enough those that decide these things are our elected representatives. If I could be bothered I could dig out leftie postings saying our elected elders and betters know best and should be left to get on with the job.

Yes is no
black is white
left is right

welcome to the Orwellian lunatic world of the remainiacs.

and a Toon to aid understanding.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 07:19 AM

You know better, John. Everyone has seen what he is like. No need to keep pointing it out or even acknowledge his existence. Make the mods task easier.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 05:56 AM

”Insulting people merely demonstrates that the argument has been ceded.
Funny that only remainiacs stoop to it!”


Sez the bloke who regularly resorts to insults like ‘Steptoe Sr’, or ‘Abbopotamus’.

Glasshouses, stones squaddie.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 05:48 AM

Insulting people merely demonstrates that the argument has been ceded.
Funny that only remainiacs stoop to it!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 05:27 AM

i'm quite interested in elton john's opinion - what is it?

why is the milkshake-stained man frog on question time so often? you do have a point there, iain = it would be good to have more alternative/socialist/environmental/workers/immigrant voices on the media.

in the european election - given the chance to vote for brexit why did their vote drop from 17 million to 5ish million? i thought folk were supposed to be quite keen on that sort of thing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 03:48 AM

Of course the game is rigged. and there are massive attempts to manipulate the electorate with very selective reporting and data massaging.

Who in their right mind wants to hear Elton John's opinion. On the political scene he is a total irrelevance just like Bono?

When TBP have won more seats than any other party in the EU elections,
why are they placed among the also-rans in a yougov survey and not even named?

Why is the selection of guests on question time so obviously partisan?

Why did the electoral Commissioners announce an enquiry into Brexit party funding immediately before the election?

Why bring proceedings against Boris during a leader selection campaign?

Why is May's deal not labelled a treaty, and the details clarifying our future as serfs not publicized?

The examples are too numerous to list and the overpowering theme is the denigration of brexit. Exactly the same as the way the American President is treated.

If you cannot understand and agree with the contention that the game is rigged, I can only conclude that for an unhealthy number, the brainwashing has been a success.

However it must be remembered that in the EU elections Brexit overwhelmingly won! DESPITE BREXIT


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 02:42 AM

I think we're at a table where the game is rigged, and we need to walk away.

It is of no important, but this raised a silly image in my mind, which might raise a laugh. Most cruise ships have casinos, which are of course designed so the house profits overall. They are, if you like, rigged games. So get up and walk away by all means, but be very careful you don't walk too far - the casino and ship provides a much warmer and safer environment than the ocean.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 02:22 AM

I am not suggesting plagues of frogs, all major businesses pulling out of the UK, and so on and so forth. In fact I do think many of the claims made by the remain camp are daft because they only look at the impact of a risk and not an estimated probability of it occurring: you need to consider both.

I am instead asking those who propose no-deal to make it as beneficial as possible. That means thinking about what could go wrong (e.g. shortage of medicine) and either taking action to mitigate it (buying fridges) or honestly accepting this is a risk we are knowingly taken.

Businesses do this all the time. So much so there is an international standard (ISO 31000), used in the US as well as the UK and he rest of the EU, which describes best practice for this. It is not some wild and weird thing we are trying to impose on no-deals out of hatred for the idea. It is normal, everyday common practice for managing change. If you went to a bank for a business loan to cover a major change, they would ask to see your business plan, part of that would normally include a risk register.


I assume you buy some forms of insurance - car, perhaps, or house. The price of those is set through this sot of mechanism. They estimate as best they can the possible risks (theft, etc), look at things that mitigate them (lockable garage? burglar alarm?) and set the price accordingly.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 19 - 01:55 AM

I have no idea what you are on about, Al.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 19 - 09:47 PM

I don't think you can have it both ways.

Let us say you are right - a no deal Brexit will raise many problems. Driving over a cliff. Walking into lamp post. Poor Elton John is consumed with shame with his fellow Englishmen.

The land prey tp pestilence and famine.

Well if that is the case, you can't really make plans and policies, if things are going to be as bad as that.

So why do it?

Well I suppose, yes its that important. I think we're at a table where the game is rigged, and we need to walk away.

Donald Trump has been criticised for his measures towards Mexico, but I think he has a point. If you want to to sell your goods to a country - you should not be pursuing policies which will affect the prosperity of that country. You can't treat a trading partner like a milk cow.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 May 19 - 12:28 PM

No problemo, senor!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 19 - 12:23 PM

A- ha! Many thanks!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 20 August 9:23 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.