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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Steve Shaw 22 Jan 19 - 05:01 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Jan 19 - 05:10 AM
Steve Shaw 22 Jan 19 - 05:11 AM
Iains 22 Jan 19 - 05:14 AM
Backwoodsman 22 Jan 19 - 05:50 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Jan 19 - 06:02 AM
Dave the Gnome 22 Jan 19 - 06:07 AM
Backwoodsman 22 Jan 19 - 06:11 AM
Steve Shaw 22 Jan 19 - 06:17 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Jan 19 - 06:29 AM
KarenH 22 Jan 19 - 07:25 AM
Steve Shaw 22 Jan 19 - 07:39 AM
Backwoodsman 22 Jan 19 - 07:53 AM
Donuel 22 Jan 19 - 08:21 AM
Iains 22 Jan 19 - 08:59 AM
SPB-Cooperator 22 Jan 19 - 09:06 AM
Steve Shaw 22 Jan 19 - 09:27 AM
Iains 22 Jan 19 - 09:43 AM
Steve Shaw 22 Jan 19 - 09:58 AM
Jon Freeman 22 Jan 19 - 10:05 AM
Stilly River Sage 22 Jan 19 - 10:06 AM
mayomick 22 Jan 19 - 10:36 AM
Stanron 22 Jan 19 - 11:03 AM
DMcG 22 Jan 19 - 11:11 AM
Stanron 22 Jan 19 - 11:19 AM
mayomick 22 Jan 19 - 11:31 AM
Iains 22 Jan 19 - 11:45 AM
SPB-Cooperator 22 Jan 19 - 11:51 AM
Iains 22 Jan 19 - 11:53 AM
KarenH 22 Jan 19 - 12:10 PM
DMcG 22 Jan 19 - 12:33 PM
David Carter (UK) 22 Jan 19 - 12:41 PM
Iains 22 Jan 19 - 01:09 PM
The Sandman 22 Jan 19 - 01:38 PM
Steve Shaw 22 Jan 19 - 03:11 PM
Steve Shaw 22 Jan 19 - 03:29 PM
Iains 22 Jan 19 - 03:32 PM
Iains 22 Jan 19 - 04:03 PM
The Sandman 22 Jan 19 - 04:24 PM
bobad 22 Jan 19 - 04:49 PM
Dave the Gnome 22 Jan 19 - 04:49 PM
Steve Shaw 22 Jan 19 - 05:06 PM
The Sandman 22 Jan 19 - 05:31 PM
Steve Shaw 22 Jan 19 - 05:48 PM
Raggytash 22 Jan 19 - 06:13 PM
Raggytash 22 Jan 19 - 06:58 PM
SPB-Cooperator 23 Jan 19 - 12:14 AM
Big Al Whittle 23 Jan 19 - 02:55 AM
Iains 23 Jan 19 - 04:15 AM
David Carter (UK) 23 Jan 19 - 04:17 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Jan 19 - 04:20 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Jan 19 - 04:31 AM
Iains 23 Jan 19 - 04:50 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Jan 19 - 05:09 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Jan 19 - 07:07 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Jan 19 - 07:10 AM
SPB-Cooperator 23 Jan 19 - 08:06 AM
Iains 23 Jan 19 - 08:28 AM
Jack Campin 23 Jan 19 - 09:25 AM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Jan 19 - 10:10 AM
Donuel 23 Jan 19 - 10:43 AM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Jan 19 - 10:50 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Jan 19 - 10:58 AM
keberoxu 23 Jan 19 - 11:06 AM
Iains 23 Jan 19 - 12:08 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 19 - 12:26 PM
DMcG 23 Jan 19 - 12:50 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Jan 19 - 01:02 PM
Jim Carroll 23 Jan 19 - 01:26 PM
Iains 23 Jan 19 - 01:55 PM
Big Al Whittle 23 Jan 19 - 02:07 PM
keberoxu 23 Jan 19 - 02:13 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 19 - 02:40 PM
Dave the Gnome 23 Jan 19 - 02:57 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 19 - 03:30 PM
Backwoodsman 23 Jan 19 - 03:30 PM
Senoufou 23 Jan 19 - 03:32 PM
Jos 23 Jan 19 - 04:15 PM
Senoufou 23 Jan 19 - 04:22 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Jan 19 - 05:39 PM
SPB-Cooperator 23 Jan 19 - 07:50 PM
robomatic 23 Jan 19 - 08:35 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 19 - 09:10 PM
Big Al Whittle 23 Jan 19 - 11:15 PM
Backwoodsman 24 Jan 19 - 01:46 AM
DMcG 24 Jan 19 - 01:55 AM
Jim Carroll 24 Jan 19 - 02:43 AM
Dave the Gnome 24 Jan 19 - 03:16 AM
Backwoodsman 24 Jan 19 - 03:45 AM
Jim Carroll 24 Jan 19 - 03:48 AM
Dave the Gnome 24 Jan 19 - 04:11 AM
Iains 24 Jan 19 - 04:34 AM
Steve Shaw 24 Jan 19 - 05:48 AM
Iains 24 Jan 19 - 06:44 AM
Iains 24 Jan 19 - 06:49 AM
Big Al Whittle 24 Jan 19 - 07:13 AM
DMcG 24 Jan 19 - 07:50 AM
bobad 24 Jan 19 - 08:03 AM
Iains 24 Jan 19 - 08:24 AM
The Sandman 24 Jan 19 - 08:49 AM
Iains 24 Jan 19 - 09:36 AM
SPB-Cooperator 24 Jan 19 - 09:41 AM
Big Al Whittle 24 Jan 19 - 09:48 AM
MikeL2 24 Jan 19 - 10:01 AM
Iains 24 Jan 19 - 10:10 AM
David Carter (UK) 24 Jan 19 - 10:20 AM
Iains 24 Jan 19 - 10:23 AM
SPB-Cooperator 24 Jan 19 - 10:38 AM
Big Al Whittle 24 Jan 19 - 11:30 AM
Backwoodsman 24 Jan 19 - 11:36 AM
Backwoodsman 24 Jan 19 - 11:38 AM
DMcG 24 Jan 19 - 12:07 PM
Jim Carroll 24 Jan 19 - 12:09 PM
KarenH 24 Jan 19 - 12:50 PM
Iains 24 Jan 19 - 12:54 PM
DMcG 24 Jan 19 - 01:01 PM
David Carter (UK) 24 Jan 19 - 02:10 PM
Iains 24 Jan 19 - 02:16 PM
Iains 24 Jan 19 - 02:18 PM
robomatic 24 Jan 19 - 02:51 PM
Jim Carroll 24 Jan 19 - 03:02 PM
Raggytash 24 Jan 19 - 03:12 PM
Jos 24 Jan 19 - 03:45 PM
McGrath of Harlow 24 Jan 19 - 03:59 PM
The Sandman 24 Jan 19 - 04:26 PM
mayomick 24 Jan 19 - 06:15 PM
KarenH 24 Jan 19 - 06:36 PM
mayomick 24 Jan 19 - 06:55 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jan 19 - 07:24 PM
The Sandman 24 Jan 19 - 07:35 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jan 19 - 07:40 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jan 19 - 07:46 PM
Big Al Whittle 24 Jan 19 - 07:56 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jan 19 - 08:14 PM
Big Al Whittle 24 Jan 19 - 08:37 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jan 19 - 08:57 PM
mayomick 24 Jan 19 - 09:09 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jan 19 - 09:47 PM
The Sandman 25 Jan 19 - 03:25 AM
Big Al Whittle 25 Jan 19 - 03:29 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Jan 19 - 04:00 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Jan 19 - 04:06 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Jan 19 - 04:10 AM
DMcG 25 Jan 19 - 04:39 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Jan 19 - 04:45 AM
Big Al Whittle 25 Jan 19 - 04:53 AM
Iains 25 Jan 19 - 05:04 AM
Big Al Whittle 25 Jan 19 - 05:12 AM
Iains 25 Jan 19 - 05:18 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Jan 19 - 05:51 AM
Backwoodsman 25 Jan 19 - 06:02 AM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Jan 19 - 06:27 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Jan 19 - 06:55 AM
Iains 25 Jan 19 - 06:55 AM
Backwoodsman 25 Jan 19 - 07:52 AM
Big Al Whittle 25 Jan 19 - 07:57 AM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Jan 19 - 08:10 AM
Backwoodsman 25 Jan 19 - 08:22 AM
Iains 25 Jan 19 - 08:27 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Jan 19 - 08:28 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Jan 19 - 08:33 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Jan 19 - 08:47 AM
DMcG 25 Jan 19 - 09:07 AM
Iains 25 Jan 19 - 09:16 AM
Backwoodsman 25 Jan 19 - 09:23 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Jan 19 - 09:39 AM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Jan 19 - 09:42 AM
DMcG 25 Jan 19 - 10:17 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Jan 19 - 11:00 AM
Iains 25 Jan 19 - 11:10 AM
DMcG 25 Jan 19 - 11:17 AM
Iains 25 Jan 19 - 11:17 AM
Iains 25 Jan 19 - 11:20 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Jan 19 - 11:55 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Jan 19 - 01:11 PM
Iains 25 Jan 19 - 02:04 PM
Iains 25 Jan 19 - 02:08 PM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Jan 19 - 02:25 PM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Jan 19 - 02:25 PM
Jim Carroll 25 Jan 19 - 02:27 PM
Dave the Gnome 25 Jan 19 - 02:36 PM
Dave the Gnome 25 Jan 19 - 02:46 PM
Backwoodsman 25 Jan 19 - 03:35 PM
Backwoodsman 25 Jan 19 - 03:38 PM
Dave the Gnome 25 Jan 19 - 03:55 PM
Raggytash 25 Jan 19 - 04:00 PM
Backwoodsman 25 Jan 19 - 04:02 PM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Jan 19 - 07:29 PM
robomatic 25 Jan 19 - 08:19 PM
Dave the Gnome 26 Jan 19 - 02:25 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Jan 19 - 03:05 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Jan 19 - 03:12 AM
Dave the Gnome 26 Jan 19 - 03:50 AM
DMcG 26 Jan 19 - 11:36 AM
Iains 26 Jan 19 - 11:56 AM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Jan 19 - 12:20 PM
Dave the Gnome 26 Jan 19 - 12:43 PM
Jim Carroll 26 Jan 19 - 01:13 PM
Iains 26 Jan 19 - 01:16 PM
Iains 26 Jan 19 - 01:26 PM
Jim Carroll 26 Jan 19 - 02:41 PM
DMcG 26 Jan 19 - 02:55 PM
Iains 26 Jan 19 - 03:00 PM
Iains 26 Jan 19 - 04:46 PM
DMcG 26 Jan 19 - 05:33 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Jan 19 - 08:04 PM
DMcG 27 Jan 19 - 02:20 AM
Jim Carroll 27 Jan 19 - 03:47 AM
Jim Carroll 27 Jan 19 - 03:47 AM
Iains 27 Jan 19 - 04:11 AM
Iains 27 Jan 19 - 05:04 AM
SPB-Cooperator 27 Jan 19 - 05:13 AM
DMcG 27 Jan 19 - 05:30 AM
DMcG 27 Jan 19 - 05:34 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Jan 19 - 05:37 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Jan 19 - 05:41 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Jan 19 - 05:48 AM
Jim Carroll 27 Jan 19 - 05:56 AM
Iains 27 Jan 19 - 06:38 AM
Iains 27 Jan 19 - 06:43 AM
DMcG 27 Jan 19 - 06:49 AM
DMcG 27 Jan 19 - 06:51 AM
Jim Carroll 27 Jan 19 - 07:02 AM
Iains 27 Jan 19 - 07:12 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Jan 19 - 07:22 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Jan 19 - 07:24 AM
SPB-Cooperator 27 Jan 19 - 07:29 AM
DMcG 27 Jan 19 - 07:37 AM
SPB-Cooperator 27 Jan 19 - 07:40 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Jan 19 - 07:53 AM
DMcG 27 Jan 19 - 07:54 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Jan 19 - 08:24 AM
Iains 27 Jan 19 - 08:57 AM
Jim Carroll 27 Jan 19 - 09:06 AM
Iains 27 Jan 19 - 09:31 AM
Jim Carroll 27 Jan 19 - 11:22 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Jan 19 - 12:38 PM
Donuel 27 Jan 19 - 01:50 PM
Backwoodsman 27 Jan 19 - 02:14 PM
Iains 27 Jan 19 - 03:10 PM
Nigel Parsons 27 Jan 19 - 05:58 PM
Nigel Parsons 27 Jan 19 - 06:02 PM
Steve Shaw 27 Jan 19 - 08:10 PM
DMcG 28 Jan 19 - 02:05 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 02:57 AM
Iains 28 Jan 19 - 04:48 AM
Iains 28 Jan 19 - 04:56 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 05:05 AM
Backwoodsman 28 Jan 19 - 05:36 AM
Iains 28 Jan 19 - 05:50 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 06:48 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 07:18 AM
Steve Shaw 28 Jan 19 - 07:23 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 07:24 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 07:26 AM
Backwoodsman 28 Jan 19 - 07:26 AM
Backwoodsman 28 Jan 19 - 07:29 AM
Steve Shaw 28 Jan 19 - 07:33 AM
Steve Shaw 28 Jan 19 - 07:35 AM
Iains 28 Jan 19 - 08:02 AM
Iains 28 Jan 19 - 08:21 AM
Backwoodsman 28 Jan 19 - 08:25 AM
Steve Shaw 28 Jan 19 - 08:29 AM
Jack Campin 28 Jan 19 - 08:57 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 09:03 AM
Iains 28 Jan 19 - 09:03 AM
DMcG 28 Jan 19 - 09:08 AM
Iains 28 Jan 19 - 10:04 AM
Raggytash 28 Jan 19 - 10:16 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 10:17 AM
DMcG 28 Jan 19 - 10:33 AM
Raggytash 28 Jan 19 - 10:38 AM
DMcG 28 Jan 19 - 11:51 AM
Backwoodsman 28 Jan 19 - 12:19 PM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 12:37 PM
Jim Carroll 28 Jan 19 - 01:06 PM
mayomick 28 Jan 19 - 01:27 PM
Iains 28 Jan 19 - 02:47 PM
Dave the Gnome 28 Jan 19 - 03:06 PM
Steve Shaw 28 Jan 19 - 03:07 PM
DMcG 28 Jan 19 - 03:22 PM
Raggytash 28 Jan 19 - 03:23 PM
Iains 28 Jan 19 - 04:07 PM
Steve Shaw 28 Jan 19 - 05:28 PM
Steve Shaw 28 Jan 19 - 07:12 PM
Steve Shaw 28 Jan 19 - 08:22 PM
DMcG 29 Jan 19 - 02:06 AM
Jim Carroll 29 Jan 19 - 03:19 AM
Backwoodsman 29 Jan 19 - 03:35 AM
Jim Carroll 29 Jan 19 - 04:09 AM
Iains 29 Jan 19 - 04:25 AM
SPB-Cooperator 29 Jan 19 - 04:38 AM
Iains 29 Jan 19 - 04:49 AM
peteaberdeen 29 Jan 19 - 04:54 AM
Iains 29 Jan 19 - 04:59 AM
Dave the Gnome 29 Jan 19 - 05:04 AM
DMcG 29 Jan 19 - 06:14 AM
Jim Carroll 29 Jan 19 - 06:31 AM
Backwoodsman 29 Jan 19 - 07:20 AM
Steve Shaw 29 Jan 19 - 07:33 AM
Dave the Gnome 29 Jan 19 - 07:37 AM
Backwoodsman 29 Jan 19 - 07:56 AM
Steve Shaw 29 Jan 19 - 08:05 AM
Backwoodsman 29 Jan 19 - 08:10 AM
Jim Carroll 29 Jan 19 - 08:23 AM
DMcG 29 Jan 19 - 08:30 AM
McGrath of Harlow 29 Jan 19 - 08:56 AM
Iains 29 Jan 19 - 09:22 AM
Jim Carroll 29 Jan 19 - 09:35 AM
SPB-Cooperator 29 Jan 19 - 09:56 AM
Steve Shaw 29 Jan 19 - 10:12 AM
Steve Shaw 29 Jan 19 - 10:14 AM
Iains 29 Jan 19 - 10:25 AM
Iains 29 Jan 19 - 11:02 AM
Jim Carroll 29 Jan 19 - 11:06 AM
Iains 29 Jan 19 - 12:21 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Jan 19 - 12:39 PM
Jim Carroll 29 Jan 19 - 01:08 PM
McGrath of Harlow 29 Jan 19 - 01:24 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Jan 19 - 01:25 PM
Backwoodsman 29 Jan 19 - 01:33 PM
DMcG 29 Jan 19 - 02:02 PM
DMcG 29 Jan 19 - 03:42 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Jan 19 - 03:49 PM
DMcG 29 Jan 19 - 04:03 PM
Iains 29 Jan 19 - 04:33 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Jan 19 - 06:25 PM
bobad 29 Jan 19 - 06:29 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Jan 19 - 07:03 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Jan 19 - 07:59 PM
mayomick 29 Jan 19 - 09:45 PM
Backwoodsman 30 Jan 19 - 02:00 AM
DMcG 30 Jan 19 - 02:19 AM
Backwoodsman 30 Jan 19 - 02:34 AM
Dave the Gnome 30 Jan 19 - 04:19 AM
Backwoodsman 30 Jan 19 - 04:48 AM
Dave the Gnome 30 Jan 19 - 05:31 AM
Nigel Parsons 30 Jan 19 - 05:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 30 Jan 19 - 06:41 AM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Jan 19 - 08:14 AM
Iains 30 Jan 19 - 08:24 AM
Dave the Gnome 30 Jan 19 - 08:29 AM
Dave the Gnome 30 Jan 19 - 09:12 AM
Dave the Gnome 30 Jan 19 - 09:36 AM
Mossback 30 Jan 19 - 10:37 AM
Iains 30 Jan 19 - 11:30 AM
Iains 30 Jan 19 - 11:46 AM
mayomick 30 Jan 19 - 12:02 PM
Backwoodsman 30 Jan 19 - 12:04 PM
Backwoodsman 30 Jan 19 - 12:08 PM
mayomick 30 Jan 19 - 12:12 PM
mayomick 30 Jan 19 - 12:38 PM
Iains 30 Jan 19 - 12:44 PM
Dave the Gnome 31 Jan 19 - 04:12 AM
Dave the Gnome 31 Jan 19 - 05:45 AM
peteaberdeen 31 Jan 19 - 10:36 AM
Iains 31 Jan 19 - 12:34 PM
Iains 31 Jan 19 - 12:48 PM
DMcG 31 Jan 19 - 01:14 PM
Dave the Gnome 31 Jan 19 - 02:45 PM
Iains 31 Jan 19 - 03:08 PM
Dave the Gnome 31 Jan 19 - 03:33 PM
Backwoodsman 31 Jan 19 - 03:37 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Jan 19 - 04:02 PM
Dave the Gnome 31 Jan 19 - 04:03 PM
Iains 31 Jan 19 - 04:27 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Jan 19 - 05:17 PM
Backwoodsman 31 Jan 19 - 05:41 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Jan 19 - 05:46 PM
Backwoodsman 01 Feb 19 - 02:01 AM
Iains 01 Feb 19 - 03:50 AM
DMcG 01 Feb 19 - 04:07 AM
Iains 01 Feb 19 - 04:16 AM
DMcG 01 Feb 19 - 04:26 AM
Backwoodsman 01 Feb 19 - 04:42 AM
Iains 01 Feb 19 - 04:44 AM
DMcG 01 Feb 19 - 06:30 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Feb 19 - 06:43 AM
DMcG 01 Feb 19 - 06:59 AM
Iains 01 Feb 19 - 07:36 AM
DMcG 01 Feb 19 - 07:40 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Feb 19 - 07:41 AM
Iains 01 Feb 19 - 07:56 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Feb 19 - 08:02 AM
DMcG 01 Feb 19 - 08:09 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 19 - 08:14 AM
Backwoodsman 01 Feb 19 - 08:30 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Feb 19 - 08:39 AM
DMcG 01 Feb 19 - 08:45 AM
Iains 01 Feb 19 - 08:46 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Feb 19 - 08:57 AM
Iains 01 Feb 19 - 09:20 AM
DMcG 01 Feb 19 - 09:30 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Feb 19 - 09:48 AM
Nigel Parsons 01 Feb 19 - 09:55 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Feb 19 - 10:34 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Feb 19 - 10:53 AM
DMcG 01 Feb 19 - 11:40 AM
Iains 01 Feb 19 - 11:43 AM
Iains 01 Feb 19 - 11:47 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Feb 19 - 01:22 PM
Nigel Parsons 01 Feb 19 - 01:58 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Feb 19 - 02:05 PM
Nigel Parsons 01 Feb 19 - 02:15 PM
Dave the Gnome 01 Feb 19 - 02:30 PM
Nigel Parsons 01 Feb 19 - 02:53 PM
Raggytash 01 Feb 19 - 03:17 PM
Raggytash 01 Feb 19 - 03:17 PM
Iains 01 Feb 19 - 03:35 PM
Donuel 01 Feb 19 - 03:43 PM
Iains 01 Feb 19 - 03:53 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 19 - 04:34 PM
Dave the Gnome 01 Feb 19 - 05:17 PM
Dave the Gnome 01 Feb 19 - 05:40 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 19 - 06:12 PM
Backwoodsman 01 Feb 19 - 07:13 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Feb 19 - 07:13 PM
Dave the Gnome 02 Feb 19 - 02:44 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Feb 19 - 03:06 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Feb 19 - 03:14 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Feb 19 - 03:19 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Feb 19 - 03:32 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Feb 19 - 03:36 AM
Iains 02 Feb 19 - 05:03 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Feb 19 - 05:49 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Feb 19 - 06:26 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Feb 19 - 06:33 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Feb 19 - 06:40 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Feb 19 - 07:18 AM
DMcG 02 Feb 19 - 07:24 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Feb 19 - 08:14 AM
Iains 02 Feb 19 - 10:24 AM
peteaberdeen 02 Feb 19 - 12:11 PM
Iains 02 Feb 19 - 12:50 PM
Backwoodsman 02 Feb 19 - 02:06 PM
Dave the Gnome 02 Feb 19 - 02:19 PM
Raggytash 02 Feb 19 - 02:34 PM
DMcG 02 Feb 19 - 02:43 PM
Iains 02 Feb 19 - 03:22 PM
Iains 02 Feb 19 - 03:29 PM
DMcG 02 Feb 19 - 05:09 PM
Iains 03 Feb 19 - 04:22 AM
DMcG 03 Feb 19 - 04:56 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Feb 19 - 05:08 AM
Iains 03 Feb 19 - 06:21 AM
DMcG 03 Feb 19 - 09:32 AM
Iains 03 Feb 19 - 12:43 PM
DMcG 03 Feb 19 - 01:08 PM
Iains 03 Feb 19 - 02:53 PM
Dave the Gnome 03 Feb 19 - 03:37 PM
Nigel Parsons 03 Feb 19 - 06:02 PM
DMcG 03 Feb 19 - 06:16 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Feb 19 - 09:28 PM
Stanron 03 Feb 19 - 09:40 PM
DMcG 04 Feb 19 - 01:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Feb 19 - 03:00 AM
DMcG 04 Feb 19 - 03:32 AM
peteaberdeen 04 Feb 19 - 03:36 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Feb 19 - 03:45 AM
Iains 04 Feb 19 - 05:00 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Feb 19 - 05:07 AM
bobad 04 Feb 19 - 07:35 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Feb 19 - 07:52 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Feb 19 - 11:54 AM
Mossback 04 Feb 19 - 12:33 PM
Iains 04 Feb 19 - 12:33 PM
bobad 04 Feb 19 - 12:56 PM
Backwoodsman 04 Feb 19 - 01:38 PM
Iains 04 Feb 19 - 01:59 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Feb 19 - 04:01 PM
Big Al Whittle 04 Feb 19 - 04:46 PM
Big Al Whittle 04 Feb 19 - 04:49 PM
Iains 05 Feb 19 - 03:29 AM
Iains 05 Feb 19 - 03:38 AM
The Sandman 05 Feb 19 - 04:13 AM
Iains 05 Feb 19 - 04:38 AM
Dave the Gnome 05 Feb 19 - 05:03 AM
Nigel Parsons 05 Feb 19 - 05:10 AM
Iains 05 Feb 19 - 07:20 AM
Steve Shaw 05 Feb 19 - 07:54 AM
David Carter (UK) 05 Feb 19 - 09:31 AM
Iains 05 Feb 19 - 10:39 AM
DMcG 05 Feb 19 - 01:17 PM
Raggytash 05 Feb 19 - 03:02 PM
Iains 05 Feb 19 - 03:33 PM
Iains 05 Feb 19 - 03:56 PM
David Carter (UK) 05 Feb 19 - 04:13 PM
Iains 05 Feb 19 - 04:37 PM
DMcG 05 Feb 19 - 04:46 PM
Steve Shaw 05 Feb 19 - 08:17 PM
DMcG 06 Feb 19 - 01:55 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Feb 19 - 02:52 AM
Thompson 06 Feb 19 - 02:54 AM
Iains 06 Feb 19 - 04:29 AM
DMcG 06 Feb 19 - 07:17 AM
Iains 06 Feb 19 - 07:23 AM
DMcG 06 Feb 19 - 07:31 AM
Stanron 06 Feb 19 - 08:02 AM
DMcG 06 Feb 19 - 08:09 AM
Stanron 06 Feb 19 - 08:18 AM
DMcG 06 Feb 19 - 08:40 AM
Thompson 06 Feb 19 - 08:50 AM
SPB-Cooperator 06 Feb 19 - 08:53 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Feb 19 - 09:59 AM
Senoufou 06 Feb 19 - 03:36 PM
Stanron 06 Feb 19 - 05:01 PM
Raggytash 06 Feb 19 - 05:15 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Feb 19 - 05:32 PM
DMcG 06 Feb 19 - 05:42 PM
Stanron 06 Feb 19 - 06:16 PM
DMcG 07 Feb 19 - 01:34 AM
David Carter (UK) 07 Feb 19 - 03:53 AM
Iains 07 Feb 19 - 04:16 AM
Iains 07 Feb 19 - 04:23 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Feb 19 - 05:59 AM
David Carter (UK) 07 Feb 19 - 07:31 AM
Stanron 07 Feb 19 - 07:37 AM
DMcG 07 Feb 19 - 07:47 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Feb 19 - 07:59 AM
Iains 07 Feb 19 - 08:02 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Feb 19 - 08:14 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Feb 19 - 08:26 AM
Iains 07 Feb 19 - 09:00 AM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Feb 19 - 09:14 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Feb 19 - 09:29 AM
Stanron 07 Feb 19 - 09:34 AM
DMcG 07 Feb 19 - 09:50 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Feb 19 - 09:50 AM
Stanron 07 Feb 19 - 10:01 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Feb 19 - 10:13 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Feb 19 - 10:22 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Feb 19 - 10:43 AM
Iains 07 Feb 19 - 11:08 AM
Iains 07 Feb 19 - 11:55 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Feb 19 - 01:09 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Feb 19 - 01:16 PM
DMcG 07 Feb 19 - 01:22 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Feb 19 - 02:20 PM
Dave the Gnome 08 Feb 19 - 03:26 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Feb 19 - 03:30 AM
Monique 08 Feb 19 - 03:44 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Feb 19 - 04:18 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Feb 19 - 04:25 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Feb 19 - 05:31 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Feb 19 - 06:18 AM
Iains 08 Feb 19 - 06:31 AM
DMcG 08 Feb 19 - 06:45 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Feb 19 - 06:51 AM
DMcG 08 Feb 19 - 07:02 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Feb 19 - 07:28 AM
KarenH 08 Feb 19 - 07:57 AM
Iains 08 Feb 19 - 09:06 AM
DMcG 08 Feb 19 - 09:52 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Feb 19 - 09:56 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Feb 19 - 10:13 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Feb 19 - 10:53 AM
Iains 08 Feb 19 - 11:50 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Feb 19 - 12:20 PM
Iains 08 Feb 19 - 12:42 PM
DMcG 08 Feb 19 - 01:03 PM
Dave the Gnome 08 Feb 19 - 05:29 PM
Backwoodsman 08 Feb 19 - 05:57 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Feb 19 - 02:59 AM
Iains 09 Feb 19 - 03:31 AM
DMcG 09 Feb 19 - 03:44 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Feb 19 - 03:59 AM
Iains 09 Feb 19 - 04:08 AM
DMcG 09 Feb 19 - 04:13 AM
KarenH 09 Feb 19 - 07:20 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Feb 19 - 07:33 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Feb 19 - 10:07 AM
Iains 09 Feb 19 - 10:34 AM
Iains 09 Feb 19 - 10:40 AM
DMcG 09 Feb 19 - 10:58 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Feb 19 - 11:27 AM
Raggytash 09 Feb 19 - 11:43 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Feb 19 - 11:52 AM
DMcG 09 Feb 19 - 12:00 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Feb 19 - 12:09 PM
Raggytash 09 Feb 19 - 12:20 PM
Iains 09 Feb 19 - 01:36 PM
Iains 10 Feb 19 - 04:07 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Feb 19 - 04:16 AM
DMcG 10 Feb 19 - 04:23 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 Feb 19 - 04:40 AM
DMcG 10 Feb 19 - 04:49 AM
Iains 10 Feb 19 - 05:44 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Feb 19 - 05:58 AM
Iains 10 Feb 19 - 06:27 AM
DMcG 10 Feb 19 - 07:38 AM
Nigel Parsons 10 Feb 19 - 01:53 PM
Raggytash 10 Feb 19 - 02:22 PM
Iains 10 Feb 19 - 03:38 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Feb 19 - 04:02 PM
DMcG 10 Feb 19 - 04:06 PM
DMcG 10 Feb 19 - 04:07 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Feb 19 - 04:46 PM
The Sandman 10 Feb 19 - 05:32 PM
Dave the Gnome 10 Feb 19 - 05:58 PM
Dave the Gnome 10 Feb 19 - 06:01 PM
Nigel Parsons 10 Feb 19 - 06:42 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Feb 19 - 06:48 PM
Nigel Parsons 10 Feb 19 - 06:51 PM
Nigel Parsons 10 Feb 19 - 06:55 PM
DMcG 11 Feb 19 - 02:22 AM
DMcG 11 Feb 19 - 03:28 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Feb 19 - 03:33 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Feb 19 - 03:43 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Feb 19 - 04:01 AM
Iains 11 Feb 19 - 04:37 AM
DMcG 11 Feb 19 - 04:58 AM
DMcG 11 Feb 19 - 06:26 AM
Iains 11 Feb 19 - 06:28 AM
Iains 11 Feb 19 - 06:31 AM
Iains 11 Feb 19 - 06:44 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Feb 19 - 12:04 PM
DMcG 11 Feb 19 - 12:11 PM
Iains 11 Feb 19 - 12:35 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Feb 19 - 01:15 PM
Iains 11 Feb 19 - 02:33 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Feb 19 - 03:30 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Feb 19 - 07:46 PM
Jim Carroll 12 Feb 19 - 03:49 AM
Iains 12 Feb 19 - 05:42 AM
Nigel Parsons 12 Feb 19 - 07:29 AM
Dave the Gnome 12 Feb 19 - 07:51 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Feb 19 - 07:59 AM
DMcG 12 Feb 19 - 08:10 AM
Iains 12 Feb 19 - 08:11 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Feb 19 - 08:32 AM
Nigel Parsons 12 Feb 19 - 08:47 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Feb 19 - 09:49 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Feb 19 - 10:58 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Feb 19 - 11:12 AM
Dave the Gnome 12 Feb 19 - 12:01 PM
Nigel Parsons 12 Feb 19 - 01:00 PM
Dave the Gnome 12 Feb 19 - 01:12 PM
DMcG 12 Feb 19 - 01:16 PM
Iains 12 Feb 19 - 01:20 PM
Nigel Parsons 12 Feb 19 - 07:06 PM
Raggytash 12 Feb 19 - 07:27 PM
Iains 13 Feb 19 - 06:32 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Feb 19 - 08:06 AM
Iains 13 Feb 19 - 09:36 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Feb 19 - 10:23 AM
DMcG 13 Feb 19 - 10:44 AM
Backwoodsman 13 Feb 19 - 11:01 AM
Raggytash 13 Feb 19 - 11:17 AM
Backwoodsman 13 Feb 19 - 11:40 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Feb 19 - 01:12 PM
Dave the Gnome 13 Feb 19 - 01:23 PM
Backwoodsman 13 Feb 19 - 01:48 PM
Backwoodsman 13 Feb 19 - 01:48 PM
Iains 13 Feb 19 - 01:52 PM
DMcG 14 Feb 19 - 02:14 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Feb 19 - 06:29 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Feb 19 - 06:50 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Feb 19 - 06:58 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Feb 19 - 07:45 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Feb 19 - 01:36 PM
Raggytash 14 Feb 19 - 04:11 PM
Backwoodsman 14 Feb 19 - 05:00 PM
DMcG 15 Feb 19 - 07:54 AM
Iains 15 Feb 19 - 08:50 AM
Mossback 15 Feb 19 - 01:22 PM
Backwoodsman 15 Feb 19 - 01:30 PM
Neil D 16 Feb 19 - 01:49 AM
DMcG 16 Feb 19 - 03:42 AM
peteaberdeen 16 Feb 19 - 03:59 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 Feb 19 - 04:05 AM
Iains 16 Feb 19 - 04:22 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 19 - 04:24 AM
DMcG 16 Feb 19 - 05:02 AM
peteaberdeen 16 Feb 19 - 06:37 AM
Iains 16 Feb 19 - 06:50 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 19 - 06:51 PM
Backwoodsman 17 Feb 19 - 12:56 AM
DMcG 17 Feb 19 - 03:09 AM
Iains 17 Feb 19 - 03:36 AM
DMcG 17 Feb 19 - 03:41 AM
DMcG 17 Feb 19 - 04:15 AM
Iains 17 Feb 19 - 04:27 AM
DMcG 17 Feb 19 - 04:39 AM
DMcG 17 Feb 19 - 04:40 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Feb 19 - 04:54 AM
DMcG 17 Feb 19 - 05:15 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 19 - 05:40 AM
Iains 17 Feb 19 - 06:48 AM
DMcG 17 Feb 19 - 08:11 AM
Iains 17 Feb 19 - 10:15 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Feb 19 - 11:53 AM
Iains 17 Feb 19 - 12:31 PM
DMcG 17 Feb 19 - 01:00 PM
Iains 17 Feb 19 - 01:22 PM
Raggytash 17 Feb 19 - 02:22 PM
Raggytash 17 Feb 19 - 02:48 PM
Raggytash 17 Feb 19 - 02:49 PM
Iains 17 Feb 19 - 03:01 PM
Raggytash 17 Feb 19 - 04:26 PM
Dave the Gnome 17 Feb 19 - 04:30 PM
Backwoodsman 17 Feb 19 - 04:32 PM
Backwoodsman 17 Feb 19 - 04:33 PM
DMcG 17 Feb 19 - 06:23 PM
DMcG 17 Feb 19 - 06:25 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Feb 19 - 07:20 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 19 - 07:49 PM
Iains 18 Feb 19 - 05:30 AM
Raggytash 18 Feb 19 - 05:36 AM
DMcG 18 Feb 19 - 05:42 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Feb 19 - 05:54 AM
Raggytash 18 Feb 19 - 06:47 AM
DMcG 18 Feb 19 - 07:01 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Feb 19 - 08:28 AM
Raggytash 18 Feb 19 - 10:09 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Feb 19 - 11:31 AM
Iains 18 Feb 19 - 12:16 PM
bobad 18 Feb 19 - 12:16 PM
Dave the Gnome 18 Feb 19 - 12:26 PM
Iains 18 Feb 19 - 12:46 PM
Jim Carroll 18 Feb 19 - 01:29 PM
Steve Shaw 18 Feb 19 - 01:43 PM
Iains 18 Feb 19 - 01:54 PM
Nigel Parsons 19 Feb 19 - 06:58 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Feb 19 - 07:12 AM
Dave the Gnome 19 Feb 19 - 07:23 AM
Steve Shaw 19 Feb 19 - 07:35 AM
Raggytash 19 Feb 19 - 07:38 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Feb 19 - 08:13 AM
KarenH 19 Feb 19 - 10:03 AM
Mossback 19 Feb 19 - 10:08 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Feb 19 - 10:58 AM
DMcG 19 Feb 19 - 11:02 AM
Iains 19 Feb 19 - 12:23 PM
Jim Carroll 19 Feb 19 - 12:44 PM
Iains 19 Feb 19 - 12:52 PM
DMcG 19 Feb 19 - 02:08 PM
DMcG 19 Feb 19 - 06:00 PM
The Sandman 20 Feb 19 - 12:54 AM
Backwoodsman 20 Feb 19 - 01:42 AM
Jim Carroll 20 Feb 19 - 04:16 AM
Nigel Parsons 20 Feb 19 - 04:51 AM
Iains 20 Feb 19 - 05:18 AM
DMcG 20 Feb 19 - 07:03 AM
Donuel 20 Feb 19 - 07:26 AM
Dave the Gnome 20 Feb 19 - 10:12 AM
Jim Carroll 20 Feb 19 - 10:23 AM
David Carter (UK) 20 Feb 19 - 10:55 AM
KarenH 21 Feb 19 - 09:09 AM
Iains 22 Feb 19 - 03:34 AM
KarenH 22 Feb 19 - 06:17 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Feb 19 - 06:21 AM
Iains 22 Feb 19 - 07:28 AM
Raggytash 22 Feb 19 - 08:03 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Feb 19 - 08:10 AM
Iains 22 Feb 19 - 10:35 AM
Raggytash 22 Feb 19 - 11:53 AM
Dave the Gnome 22 Feb 19 - 12:59 PM
Jim Carroll 22 Feb 19 - 02:04 PM
Raggytash 22 Feb 19 - 04:14 PM
DMcG 23 Feb 19 - 02:54 AM
Raggytash 23 Feb 19 - 05:34 AM
David Carter (UK) 23 Feb 19 - 06:58 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Feb 19 - 07:04 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Feb 19 - 07:05 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Feb 19 - 08:21 AM
The Sandman 23 Feb 19 - 09:17 AM
Raggytash 23 Feb 19 - 09:21 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Feb 19 - 10:12 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Feb 19 - 10:24 AM
Iains 23 Feb 19 - 10:43 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Feb 19 - 11:07 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 23 Feb 19 - 12:04 PM
Iains 23 Feb 19 - 02:01 PM
Nigel Parsons 23 Feb 19 - 02:32 PM
Backwoodsman 23 Feb 19 - 02:36 PM
Jim Carroll 23 Feb 19 - 02:45 PM
Iains 23 Feb 19 - 02:46 PM
DMcG 23 Feb 19 - 02:56 PM
Iains 23 Feb 19 - 03:06 PM
Backwoodsman 23 Feb 19 - 03:22 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 23 Feb 19 - 03:57 PM
DMcG 23 Feb 19 - 04:52 PM
Raggytash 23 Feb 19 - 05:04 PM
David Carter (UK) 23 Feb 19 - 05:12 PM
Iains 23 Feb 19 - 05:19 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 23 Feb 19 - 05:22 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 23 Feb 19 - 05:32 PM
KarenH 23 Feb 19 - 06:36 PM
DMcG 24 Feb 19 - 03:46 AM
Iains 24 Feb 19 - 04:26 AM
KarenH 25 Feb 19 - 05:30 AM
Iains 25 Feb 19 - 07:42 AM
KarenH 25 Feb 19 - 10:47 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 25 Feb 19 - 12:02 PM
Iains 25 Feb 19 - 12:30 PM
KarenH 25 Feb 19 - 01:06 PM
KarenH 25 Feb 19 - 01:09 PM
David Carter (UK) 25 Feb 19 - 01:18 PM
Jim Carroll 25 Feb 19 - 01:38 PM
David Carter (UK) 25 Feb 19 - 02:01 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 25 Feb 19 - 02:06 PM
DMcG 25 Feb 19 - 02:31 PM
Jim Carroll 25 Feb 19 - 02:37 PM
Donuel 25 Feb 19 - 02:38 PM
David Carter (UK) 25 Feb 19 - 03:59 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 25 Feb 19 - 05:28 PM
Iains 25 Feb 19 - 05:37 PM
DMcG 25 Feb 19 - 05:44 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 25 Feb 19 - 05:58 PM
Steve Shaw 25 Feb 19 - 06:12 PM
Dave the Gnome 25 Feb 19 - 07:03 PM
KarenH 26 Feb 19 - 03:23 AM
KarenH 26 Feb 19 - 03:24 AM
KarenH 26 Feb 19 - 03:27 AM
The Sandman 26 Feb 19 - 04:08 AM
The Sandman 26 Feb 19 - 04:10 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Feb 19 - 04:49 AM
Iains 26 Feb 19 - 04:50 AM
Raggytash 26 Feb 19 - 05:41 AM
Dave the Gnome 26 Feb 19 - 07:38 AM
DMcG 26 Feb 19 - 08:08 AM
Dave the Gnome 26 Feb 19 - 11:46 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 26 Feb 19 - 01:12 PM
Jim Carroll 26 Feb 19 - 02:02 PM
Jim Carroll 26 Feb 19 - 02:02 PM
Jim Carroll 26 Feb 19 - 02:06 PM
Iains 26 Feb 19 - 02:25 PM
mayomick 26 Feb 19 - 03:18 PM
Iains 26 Feb 19 - 04:57 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Feb 19 - 05:23 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Feb 19 - 05:24 PM
Jim Carroll 27 Feb 19 - 03:09 AM
Iains 27 Feb 19 - 03:47 AM
KarenH 27 Feb 19 - 04:25 AM
KarenH 27 Feb 19 - 04:41 AM
Jim Carroll 27 Feb 19 - 04:59 AM
peteaberdeen 27 Feb 19 - 09:37 AM
Iains 27 Feb 19 - 11:50 AM
Jim Carroll 27 Feb 19 - 12:52 PM
Iains 27 Feb 19 - 01:08 PM
Jim Carroll 27 Feb 19 - 01:13 PM
Jim Carroll 27 Feb 19 - 01:15 PM
Iains 27 Feb 19 - 01:27 PM
bobad 27 Feb 19 - 01:31 PM
Jim Carroll 27 Feb 19 - 01:53 PM
KarenH 28 Feb 19 - 05:09 AM
KarenH 28 Feb 19 - 05:23 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Feb 19 - 05:25 AM
KarenH 28 Feb 19 - 05:29 AM
KarenH 28 Feb 19 - 05:31 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Feb 19 - 06:09 AM
KarenH 28 Feb 19 - 06:47 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Feb 19 - 07:10 AM
Iains 28 Feb 19 - 11:21 AM
DMcG 01 Mar 19 - 04:30 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 01 Mar 19 - 06:42 AM
KarenH 01 Mar 19 - 07:14 AM
KarenH 01 Mar 19 - 07:21 AM
KarenH 01 Mar 19 - 07:28 AM
DMcG 01 Mar 19 - 08:12 AM
KarenH 01 Mar 19 - 08:32 AM
KarenH 01 Mar 19 - 08:42 AM
KarenH 01 Mar 19 - 08:46 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 01 Mar 19 - 09:04 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Mar 19 - 03:23 AM
Iains 02 Mar 19 - 03:36 AM
DMcG 02 Mar 19 - 03:43 AM
DMcG 02 Mar 19 - 04:07 AM
KarenH 02 Mar 19 - 04:56 AM
Iains 02 Mar 19 - 05:14 AM
Raggytash 02 Mar 19 - 05:35 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Mar 19 - 06:24 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Mar 19 - 06:24 AM
Iains 02 Mar 19 - 06:25 AM
Raggytash 02 Mar 19 - 07:32 AM
peteaberdeen 02 Mar 19 - 08:42 AM
Iains 02 Mar 19 - 10:37 AM
Raggytash 02 Mar 19 - 03:31 PM
Iains 02 Mar 19 - 04:09 PM
Raggytash 02 Mar 19 - 04:30 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Mar 19 - 06:27 PM
bobad 02 Mar 19 - 06:54 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Mar 19 - 08:33 PM
KarenH 03 Mar 19 - 01:17 AM
KarenH 03 Mar 19 - 01:19 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Mar 19 - 03:15 AM
Iains 03 Mar 19 - 04:03 AM
DMcG 03 Mar 19 - 04:08 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Mar 19 - 04:53 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Mar 19 - 05:04 AM
Iains 03 Mar 19 - 06:19 AM
Iains 03 Mar 19 - 07:29 AM
KarenH 03 Mar 19 - 08:12 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Mar 19 - 08:33 AM
Iains 03 Mar 19 - 09:01 AM
Raggytash 03 Mar 19 - 09:02 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Mar 19 - 09:03 AM
SPB-Cooperator 03 Mar 19 - 09:46 AM
Iains 03 Mar 19 - 10:06 AM
Backwoodsman 03 Mar 19 - 10:09 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Mar 19 - 10:51 AM
Backwoodsman 03 Mar 19 - 03:39 PM
Iains 03 Mar 19 - 03:52 PM
KarenH 03 Mar 19 - 05:23 PM
KarenH 03 Mar 19 - 05:46 PM
KarenH 03 Mar 19 - 06:00 PM
Stanron 03 Mar 19 - 06:11 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Mar 19 - 07:00 PM
Stanron 03 Mar 19 - 07:34 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Mar 19 - 07:56 PM
Stanron 03 Mar 19 - 08:08 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Mar 19 - 08:23 PM
Backwoodsman 04 Mar 19 - 02:32 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Mar 19 - 03:10 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Mar 19 - 05:40 AM
DMcG 04 Mar 19 - 09:57 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Mar 19 - 12:11 PM
Donuel 04 Mar 19 - 12:56 PM
SPB-Cooperator 04 Mar 19 - 01:25 PM
SPB-Cooperator 04 Mar 19 - 01:30 PM
Raggytash 05 Mar 19 - 08:03 AM
Raggytash 05 Mar 19 - 08:04 AM
Jim Carroll 05 Mar 19 - 10:52 AM
SPB-Cooperator 05 Mar 19 - 11:09 AM
David Carter (UK) 05 Mar 19 - 12:21 PM
Jim Carroll 05 Mar 19 - 01:12 PM
Backwoodsman 05 Mar 19 - 01:56 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 05 Mar 19 - 02:24 PM
Backwoodsman 05 Mar 19 - 03:03 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 19 - 04:27 AM
Iains 06 Mar 19 - 04:53 AM
DMcG 06 Mar 19 - 04:56 AM
David Carter (UK) 06 Mar 19 - 05:26 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 19 - 05:27 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 19 - 05:27 AM
Iains 06 Mar 19 - 06:06 AM
Iains 06 Mar 19 - 11:12 AM
Raggytash 06 Mar 19 - 04:21 PM
robomatic 06 Mar 19 - 06:47 PM
Raggytash 07 Mar 19 - 04:51 PM
Dave the Gnome 08 Mar 19 - 04:00 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Mar 19 - 05:27 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Mar 19 - 08:51 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Mar 19 - 09:17 AM
DMcG 09 Mar 19 - 09:10 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Mar 19 - 02:17 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 19 - 06:19 AM
Iains 10 Mar 19 - 06:40 AM
DMcG 10 Mar 19 - 07:01 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 19 - 07:23 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Mar 19 - 07:30 AM
David Carter (UK) 10 Mar 19 - 08:17 AM
Iains 10 Mar 19 - 08:24 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 19 - 08:25 AM
Iains 10 Mar 19 - 08:34 AM
Raggytash 10 Mar 19 - 09:06 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Mar 19 - 09:23 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 19 - 09:25 AM
Iains 10 Mar 19 - 12:15 PM
Iains 10 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 19 - 12:30 PM
Raggytash 10 Mar 19 - 02:01 PM
Dave the Gnome 10 Mar 19 - 02:49 PM
Raggytash 10 Mar 19 - 03:14 PM
DMcG 10 Mar 19 - 03:25 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 19 - 03:26 PM
Dave the Gnome 10 Mar 19 - 03:34 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Mar 19 - 04:31 PM
Dave the Gnome 10 Mar 19 - 05:40 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Mar 19 - 07:46 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 19 - 07:59 PM
Mossback 10 Mar 19 - 09:24 PM
DMcG 11 Mar 19 - 03:01 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Mar 19 - 03:58 AM
DMcG 11 Mar 19 - 04:19 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Mar 19 - 04:31 AM
David Carter (UK) 11 Mar 19 - 05:11 AM
DMcG 11 Mar 19 - 05:24 AM
David Carter (UK) 11 Mar 19 - 05:43 AM
Stanron 11 Mar 19 - 06:00 AM
Stanron 11 Mar 19 - 06:01 AM
David Carter (UK) 11 Mar 19 - 06:11 AM
Raggytash 11 Mar 19 - 06:36 AM
DMcG 11 Mar 19 - 07:44 AM
SPB-Cooperator 11 Mar 19 - 08:20 AM
Iains 11 Mar 19 - 05:25 PM
DMcG 12 Mar 19 - 02:38 AM
Iains 12 Mar 19 - 09:47 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Mar 19 - 09:49 AM
Iains 12 Mar 19 - 10:09 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Mar 19 - 10:15 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Mar 19 - 10:26 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Mar 19 - 10:42 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Mar 19 - 10:59 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Mar 19 - 12:12 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 12 Mar 19 - 12:17 PM
Backwoodsman 12 Mar 19 - 01:02 PM
Dave the Gnome 12 Mar 19 - 03:00 PM
DMcG 12 Mar 19 - 03:14 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Mar 19 - 03:21 PM
Mrrzy 12 Mar 19 - 03:36 PM
DMcG 12 Mar 19 - 03:44 PM
SPB-Cooperator 12 Mar 19 - 03:57 PM
SPB-Cooperator 12 Mar 19 - 04:02 PM
DMcG 12 Mar 19 - 04:04 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Mar 19 - 05:49 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Mar 19 - 08:29 PM
Dave the Gnome 13 Mar 19 - 06:47 AM
Iains 13 Mar 19 - 11:10 AM
Backwoodsman 13 Mar 19 - 11:37 AM
Mossback 13 Mar 19 - 11:48 AM
DMcG 13 Mar 19 - 12:17 PM
Backwoodsman 13 Mar 19 - 12:37 PM
Backwoodsman 13 Mar 19 - 12:38 PM
Dave the Gnome 13 Mar 19 - 01:48 PM
Backwoodsman 13 Mar 19 - 02:21 PM
DMcG 13 Mar 19 - 03:42 PM
DMcG 13 Mar 19 - 03:43 PM
Dave the Gnome 13 Mar 19 - 04:32 PM
Iains 13 Mar 19 - 05:41 PM
DMcG 13 Mar 19 - 06:05 PM
Backwoodsman 14 Mar 19 - 04:41 AM
DMcG 14 Mar 19 - 05:14 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Mar 19 - 05:25 AM
Iains 14 Mar 19 - 05:35 AM
David Carter (UK) 14 Mar 19 - 05:50 AM
Iains 14 Mar 19 - 05:59 AM
DMcG 14 Mar 19 - 07:19 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Mar 19 - 07:32 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Mar 19 - 07:42 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Mar 19 - 07:45 AM
Iains 14 Mar 19 - 07:56 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Mar 19 - 08:28 AM
DMcG 14 Mar 19 - 08:44 AM
The Sandman 14 Mar 19 - 09:21 AM
Iains 14 Mar 19 - 09:27 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Mar 19 - 09:33 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Mar 19 - 10:39 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Mar 19 - 11:08 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Mar 19 - 10:30 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Mar 19 - 10:37 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Mar 19 - 10:46 AM
Iains 14 Mar 19 - 10:56 AM
Iains 14 Mar 19 - 11:05 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Mar 19 - 11:55 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Mar 19 - 12:12 PM
Iains 14 Mar 19 - 01:09 PM
DMcG 14 Mar 19 - 02:01 PM
robomatic 14 Mar 19 - 02:19 PM
Backwoodsman 14 Mar 19 - 02:34 PM
Mrrzy 14 Mar 19 - 03:02 PM
Iains 14 Mar 19 - 03:35 PM
Donuel 14 Mar 19 - 03:53 PM
DMcG 14 Mar 19 - 04:37 PM
Dave the Gnome 14 Mar 19 - 04:52 PM
DMcG 15 Mar 19 - 06:04 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Mar 19 - 06:09 AM
DMcG 15 Mar 19 - 06:29 AM
DMcG 15 Mar 19 - 06:48 AM
Nigel Parsons 15 Mar 19 - 06:50 AM
DMcG 15 Mar 19 - 06:59 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 15 Mar 19 - 07:17 AM
Iains 15 Mar 19 - 07:21 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 15 Mar 19 - 07:45 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 15 Mar 19 - 07:55 AM
DMcG 15 Mar 19 - 08:01 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Mar 19 - 08:09 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Mar 19 - 12:11 PM
Mrrzy 15 Mar 19 - 12:36 PM
DMcG 15 Mar 19 - 12:49 PM
peteaberdeen 16 Mar 19 - 10:38 AM
DMcG 16 Mar 19 - 01:33 PM
SPB-Cooperator 16 Mar 19 - 06:21 PM
The Sandman 17 Mar 19 - 06:04 AM
The Sandman 17 Mar 19 - 06:06 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Mar 19 - 07:24 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 17 Mar 19 - 08:02 AM
DMcG 17 Mar 19 - 08:42 AM
skarpi 17 Mar 19 - 10:29 AM
Iains 17 Mar 19 - 11:41 AM
DMcG 17 Mar 19 - 12:27 PM
Nigel Parsons 17 Mar 19 - 08:15 PM
Backwoodsman 18 Mar 19 - 02:46 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Mar 19 - 04:15 AM
DMcG 18 Mar 19 - 04:37 AM
DMcG 18 Mar 19 - 05:31 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Mar 19 - 10:54 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Mar 19 - 11:41 AM
bobad 18 Mar 19 - 11:46 AM
Dave the Gnome 18 Mar 19 - 11:58 AM
Iains 18 Mar 19 - 12:07 PM
DMcG 18 Mar 19 - 12:21 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 18 Mar 19 - 12:28 PM
Iains 18 Mar 19 - 12:37 PM
Jim Carroll 18 Mar 19 - 12:46 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 18 Mar 19 - 01:04 PM
Iains 18 Mar 19 - 01:13 PM
Jim Carroll 18 Mar 19 - 02:14 PM
Iains 18 Mar 19 - 03:00 PM
Steve Shaw 18 Mar 19 - 06:24 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Mar 19 - 06:57 PM
Steve Shaw 18 Mar 19 - 07:40 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Mar 19 - 07:48 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 18 Mar 19 - 08:12 PM
DMcG 19 Mar 19 - 03:47 AM
Donuel 19 Mar 19 - 08:35 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Mar 19 - 08:54 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 19 Mar 19 - 09:09 AM
Donuel 19 Mar 19 - 09:25 AM
Iains 19 Mar 19 - 12:46 PM
Jim Carroll 19 Mar 19 - 12:54 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Mar 19 - 01:10 PM
Iains 19 Mar 19 - 02:09 PM
DMcG 19 Mar 19 - 02:11 PM
Jim Carroll 19 Mar 19 - 02:26 PM
SPB-Cooperator 19 Mar 19 - 06:59 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Mar 19 - 08:56 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Mar 19 - 09:16 PM
Iains 20 Mar 19 - 04:11 AM
DMcG 20 Mar 19 - 04:22 AM
Jim Carroll 20 Mar 19 - 04:36 AM
KarenH 20 Mar 19 - 06:36 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Mar 19 - 07:09 AM
Jim Carroll 20 Mar 19 - 07:35 AM
Backwoodsman 20 Mar 19 - 08:44 AM
Jim Carroll 20 Mar 19 - 09:38 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 20 Mar 19 - 09:56 AM
Jim Carroll 20 Mar 19 - 10:51 AM
robomatic 20 Mar 19 - 12:06 PM
DMcG 20 Mar 19 - 12:58 PM
DMcG 20 Mar 19 - 03:44 PM
Iains 20 Mar 19 - 04:48 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Mar 19 - 07:06 PM
DMcG 20 Mar 19 - 07:19 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Mar 19 - 08:24 PM
David Carter (UK) 21 Mar 19 - 03:20 AM
Backwoodsman 21 Mar 19 - 03:40 AM
KarenH 21 Mar 19 - 05:09 AM
Iains 21 Mar 19 - 05:13 AM
SPB-Cooperator 21 Mar 19 - 08:08 AM
Backwoodsman 21 Mar 19 - 08:17 AM
KarenH 21 Mar 19 - 08:42 AM
Backwoodsman 21 Mar 19 - 08:48 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 21 Mar 19 - 08:56 AM
Mossback 21 Mar 19 - 09:48 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 21 Mar 19 - 10:03 AM
Backwoodsman 21 Mar 19 - 10:16 AM
DMcG 21 Mar 19 - 10:30 AM
Backwoodsman 21 Mar 19 - 11:34 AM
Dave the Gnome 21 Mar 19 - 11:46 AM
Iains 21 Mar 19 - 12:09 PM
Raggytash 21 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM
SPB-Cooperator 21 Mar 19 - 12:33 PM
Iains 21 Mar 19 - 01:37 PM
DMcG 21 Mar 19 - 02:24 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Mar 19 - 02:52 PM
DMcG 21 Mar 19 - 02:56 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Mar 19 - 04:29 PM
Iains 21 Mar 19 - 04:59 PM
DMcG 21 Mar 19 - 05:09 PM
DMcG 21 Mar 19 - 05:19 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Mar 19 - 05:26 PM
KarenH 21 Mar 19 - 06:31 PM
DMcG 21 Mar 19 - 06:38 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Mar 19 - 06:44 PM
Donuel 21 Mar 19 - 07:55 PM
robomatic 21 Mar 19 - 09:58 PM
KarenH 22 Mar 19 - 01:32 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Mar 19 - 02:53 AM
Iains 22 Mar 19 - 03:01 AM
DMcG 22 Mar 19 - 03:07 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Mar 19 - 03:15 AM
Dave the Gnome 22 Mar 19 - 03:29 AM
DMcG 22 Mar 19 - 03:52 AM
Backwoodsman 22 Mar 19 - 04:11 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Mar 19 - 04:50 AM
Donuel 22 Mar 19 - 05:55 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Mar 19 - 06:26 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 22 Mar 19 - 06:51 AM
Backwoodsman 22 Mar 19 - 06:58 AM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Mar 19 - 08:04 AM
Iains 22 Mar 19 - 09:08 AM
Iains 22 Mar 19 - 09:21 AM
SPB-Cooperator 22 Mar 19 - 01:58 PM
Raggytash 22 Mar 19 - 04:28 PM
DMcG 22 Mar 19 - 04:49 PM
Iains 22 Mar 19 - 05:02 PM
SPB-Cooperator 22 Mar 19 - 05:26 PM
DMcG 22 Mar 19 - 06:18 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Mar 19 - 09:38 PM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 12:25 AM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 12:38 AM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 01:02 AM
DMcG 23 Mar 19 - 02:20 AM
Iains 23 Mar 19 - 03:38 AM
DMcG 23 Mar 19 - 04:52 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Mar 19 - 05:32 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Mar 19 - 05:59 AM
Iains 23 Mar 19 - 07:01 AM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 07:30 AM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 07:37 AM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 07:40 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Mar 19 - 08:19 AM
Iains 23 Mar 19 - 09:03 AM
DMcG 23 Mar 19 - 02:04 PM
Backwoodsman 24 Mar 19 - 02:53 AM
Stanron 24 Mar 19 - 03:21 AM
DMcG 24 Mar 19 - 04:11 AM
DMcG 24 Mar 19 - 04:22 AM
KarenH 24 Mar 19 - 04:30 AM
DMcG 24 Mar 19 - 04:41 AM
Iains 24 Mar 19 - 04:42 AM
Iains 24 Mar 19 - 05:03 AM
KarenH 24 Mar 19 - 05:22 AM
Jim Carroll 24 Mar 19 - 05:42 AM
Steve Shaw 24 Mar 19 - 06:05 AM
Iains 24 Mar 19 - 06:24 AM
DMcG 25 Mar 19 - 06:22 PM
Iains 26 Mar 19 - 04:07 AM
The Sandman 26 Mar 19 - 04:23 AM
DMcG 26 Mar 19 - 05:05 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Mar 19 - 05:15 AM
Iains 26 Mar 19 - 05:34 AM
Iains 26 Mar 19 - 05:41 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Mar 19 - 06:15 AM
Iains 26 Mar 19 - 06:58 AM
DMcG 26 Mar 19 - 07:21 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Mar 19 - 08:11 AM
Nigel Parsons 26 Mar 19 - 08:24 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Mar 19 - 09:19 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Mar 19 - 09:33 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Mar 19 - 01:12 PM
Jim Carroll 26 Mar 19 - 01:16 PM
Iains 26 Mar 19 - 02:51 PM
Iains 26 Mar 19 - 03:50 PM
Iains 26 Mar 19 - 03:51 PM
Raggytash 26 Mar 19 - 05:13 PM
Iains 26 Mar 19 - 05:27 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Mar 19 - 05:37 PM
Iains 26 Mar 19 - 06:12 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Mar 19 - 08:40 PM
The Sandman 27 Mar 19 - 01:15 AM
DMcG 27 Mar 19 - 02:05 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Mar 19 - 08:10 AM
Stanron 27 Mar 19 - 08:30 AM
Mossback 27 Mar 19 - 09:54 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Mar 19 - 09:59 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Mar 19 - 10:02 AM
DMcG 27 Mar 19 - 05:37 PM
DMcG 27 Mar 19 - 05:47 PM
Steve Shaw 27 Mar 19 - 06:34 PM
Raggytash 27 Mar 19 - 06:36 PM
Steve Shaw 27 Mar 19 - 06:46 PM
Iains 27 Mar 19 - 06:47 PM
DMcG 27 Mar 19 - 06:54 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 27 Mar 19 - 07:05 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 27 Mar 19 - 07:07 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 27 Mar 19 - 07:33 PM
Steve Shaw 27 Mar 19 - 08:40 PM
Backwoodsman 28 Mar 19 - 03:29 AM
DMcG 28 Mar 19 - 03:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 28 Mar 19 - 04:14 AM
DMcG 28 Mar 19 - 04:17 AM
Iains 28 Mar 19 - 05:00 AM
peteaberdeen 28 Mar 19 - 05:14 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 28 Mar 19 - 07:31 AM
Iains 28 Mar 19 - 08:23 AM
DMcG 28 Mar 19 - 08:52 AM
Raggytash 28 Mar 19 - 11:29 AM
DMcG 28 Mar 19 - 11:56 AM
Iains 28 Mar 19 - 12:03 PM
Raggytash 28 Mar 19 - 01:25 PM
Dave the Gnome 28 Mar 19 - 01:28 PM
Iains 28 Mar 19 - 02:55 PM
peteaberdeen 28 Mar 19 - 04:12 PM
Dave the Gnome 29 Mar 19 - 01:48 AM
Iains 29 Mar 19 - 03:46 AM
DMcG 29 Mar 19 - 04:14 AM
Steve Shaw 29 Mar 19 - 06:10 AM
Dave the Gnome 29 Mar 19 - 06:47 AM
Dave the Gnome 29 Mar 19 - 06:58 AM
Jim Carroll 29 Mar 19 - 07:19 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 29 Mar 19 - 07:37 AM
Mrrzy 29 Mar 19 - 08:04 AM
Jim Carroll 29 Mar 19 - 08:23 AM
Jim Carroll 29 Mar 19 - 08:23 AM
Donuel 29 Mar 19 - 08:50 AM
Jim Carroll 29 Mar 19 - 09:36 AM
Steve Shaw 29 Mar 19 - 12:14 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Mar 19 - 12:16 PM
Jim Carroll 29 Mar 19 - 12:58 PM
Jim Carroll 29 Mar 19 - 01:28 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Mar 19 - 02:15 PM
Backwoodsman 29 Mar 19 - 02:36 PM
Jim Carroll 29 Mar 19 - 03:03 PM
robomatic 29 Mar 19 - 03:08 PM
Backwoodsman 29 Mar 19 - 05:16 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Mar 19 - 05:58 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Mar 19 - 06:00 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Mar 19 - 06:02 PM
Jim Carroll 30 Mar 19 - 02:23 AM
Iains 30 Mar 19 - 03:34 AM
DMcG 30 Mar 19 - 03:42 AM
DMcG 30 Mar 19 - 03:56 AM
Stanron 30 Mar 19 - 04:02 AM
DMcG 30 Mar 19 - 04:31 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Mar 19 - 01:23 PM
Iains 30 Mar 19 - 05:09 PM
DMcG 30 Mar 19 - 05:54 PM
Raggytash 30 Mar 19 - 06:19 PM
Iains 30 Mar 19 - 06:40 PM
Jim Carroll 31 Mar 19 - 02:48 AM
DMcG 31 Mar 19 - 02:53 AM
DMcG 31 Mar 19 - 03:00 AM
Jim Carroll 31 Mar 19 - 04:11 AM
DMcG 31 Mar 19 - 04:26 AM
Iains 31 Mar 19 - 04:34 AM
Jim Carroll 31 Mar 19 - 05:07 AM
Jim Carroll 31 Mar 19 - 06:08 AM
Steve Shaw 31 Mar 19 - 07:13 AM
Jim Carroll 31 Mar 19 - 07:17 AM
Dave the Gnome 31 Mar 19 - 07:20 AM
Backwoodsman 31 Mar 19 - 07:31 AM
DMcG 31 Mar 19 - 08:07 AM
Jim Carroll 31 Mar 19 - 08:26 AM
Backwoodsman 31 Mar 19 - 11:38 AM
Dave the Gnome 31 Mar 19 - 12:01 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Mar 19 - 04:21 PM
Jim Carroll 31 Mar 19 - 05:29 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Mar 19 - 06:41 PM
Stanron 31 Mar 19 - 07:50 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Mar 19 - 08:18 PM
Stanron 31 Mar 19 - 09:41 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 19 - 03:28 AM
DMcG 01 Apr 19 - 03:42 AM
DMcG 01 Apr 19 - 04:07 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 19 - 04:28 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 19 - 05:38 AM
DMcG 01 Apr 19 - 12:16 PM
Stanron 01 Apr 19 - 12:21 PM
David Carter (UK) 01 Apr 19 - 12:51 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 19 - 01:25 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 19 - 01:25 PM
Iains 01 Apr 19 - 01:48 PM
Iains 01 Apr 19 - 01:51 PM
Backwoodsman 01 Apr 19 - 02:09 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 19 - 02:23 PM
Nigel Parsons 01 Apr 19 - 02:26 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Apr 19 - 02:28 PM
Iains 01 Apr 19 - 02:40 PM
DMcG 01 Apr 19 - 02:48 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 19 - 02:50 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 01 Apr 19 - 02:54 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 01 Apr 19 - 02:54 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 01 Apr 19 - 03:05 PM
Backwoodsman 01 Apr 19 - 03:11 PM
Backwoodsman 01 Apr 19 - 03:14 PM
DMcG 01 Apr 19 - 03:26 PM
Nigel Parsons 01 Apr 19 - 04:27 PM
Backwoodsman 01 Apr 19 - 04:32 PM
Backwoodsman 01 Apr 19 - 04:35 PM
Backwoodsman 01 Apr 19 - 04:40 PM
Iains 01 Apr 19 - 05:01 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Apr 19 - 07:44 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 02:44 AM
DMcG 02 Apr 19 - 02:51 AM
DMcG 02 Apr 19 - 03:02 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Apr 19 - 03:03 AM
DMcG 02 Apr 19 - 03:22 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Apr 19 - 03:44 AM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 03:50 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Apr 19 - 04:02 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Apr 19 - 04:10 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 04:12 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Apr 19 - 04:22 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 04:42 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Apr 19 - 05:03 AM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 05:12 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Apr 19 - 05:22 AM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 05:35 AM
DMcG 02 Apr 19 - 05:44 AM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 05:51 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 05:58 AM
peteaberdeen 02 Apr 19 - 06:09 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Apr 19 - 06:14 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Apr 19 - 07:03 AM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 07:05 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Apr 19 - 07:27 AM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 08:17 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 08:22 AM
DMcG 02 Apr 19 - 08:29 AM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 08:34 AM
David Carter (UK) 02 Apr 19 - 08:43 AM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 09:06 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 09:38 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 09:38 AM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 10:17 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 10:39 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 10:59 AM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 11:24 AM
Raggytash 02 Apr 19 - 11:56 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 12:23 PM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 01:17 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 01:17 PM
DMcG 02 Apr 19 - 01:25 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 19 - 02:52 PM
Raggytash 02 Apr 19 - 04:18 PM
Iains 02 Apr 19 - 04:29 PM
Raggytash 02 Apr 19 - 06:46 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Apr 19 - 07:30 PM
Jim Carroll 03 Apr 19 - 03:04 AM
Backwoodsman 03 Apr 19 - 03:04 AM
DMcG 03 Apr 19 - 03:34 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Apr 19 - 03:50 AM
DMcG 03 Apr 19 - 04:00 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Apr 19 - 06:10 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 03 Apr 19 - 07:47 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 03 Apr 19 - 07:48 AM
Iains 03 Apr 19 - 08:57 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Apr 19 - 09:11 AM
Rain Dog 03 Apr 19 - 09:24 AM
Stanron 03 Apr 19 - 09:41 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Apr 19 - 10:10 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Apr 19 - 10:13 AM
Stanron 03 Apr 19 - 10:17 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Apr 19 - 10:33 AM
Backwoodsman 03 Apr 19 - 10:46 AM
DMcG 03 Apr 19 - 10:46 AM
Stanron 03 Apr 19 - 10:56 AM
Jim Carroll 03 Apr 19 - 10:58 AM
Iains 03 Apr 19 - 11:30 AM
Iains 03 Apr 19 - 12:08 PM
Jim Carroll 03 Apr 19 - 01:14 PM
Jim Carroll 03 Apr 19 - 01:41 PM
Jim Carroll 03 Apr 19 - 02:15 PM
Raggytash 03 Apr 19 - 02:24 PM
DMcG 03 Apr 19 - 02:33 PM
The Sandman 03 Apr 19 - 02:38 PM
Iains 03 Apr 19 - 03:07 PM
DMcG 03 Apr 19 - 03:32 PM
Backwoodsman 03 Apr 19 - 03:58 PM
Raggytash 03 Apr 19 - 04:03 PM
Iains 03 Apr 19 - 07:56 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Apr 19 - 08:14 PM
Iains 03 Apr 19 - 08:15 PM
Stanron 03 Apr 19 - 08:30 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Apr 19 - 09:00 PM
Stanron 03 Apr 19 - 09:14 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Apr 19 - 09:29 PM
Jim Carroll 04 Apr 19 - 03:01 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Apr 19 - 03:17 AM
The Sandman 04 Apr 19 - 03:49 AM
DMcG 04 Apr 19 - 03:49 AM
DMcG 04 Apr 19 - 04:16 AM
Iains 04 Apr 19 - 04:18 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Apr 19 - 04:33 AM
Iains 04 Apr 19 - 04:34 AM
DMcG 04 Apr 19 - 04:39 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Apr 19 - 05:07 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Apr 19 - 05:15 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Apr 19 - 05:15 AM
Iains 04 Apr 19 - 05:37 AM
DMcG 04 Apr 19 - 05:55 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Apr 19 - 05:58 AM
Nigel Parsons 04 Apr 19 - 06:23 AM
DMcG 04 Apr 19 - 06:31 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Apr 19 - 06:37 AM
DMcG 04 Apr 19 - 06:41 AM
Iains 04 Apr 19 - 06:50 AM
DMcG 04 Apr 19 - 06:56 AM
DMcG 04 Apr 19 - 07:03 AM
peteaberdeen 04 Apr 19 - 07:09 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Apr 19 - 07:30 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Apr 19 - 07:30 AM
peteaberdeen 04 Apr 19 - 07:37 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Apr 19 - 08:12 AM
Donuel 04 Apr 19 - 08:03 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Apr 19 - 08:20 AM
Nigel Parsons 04 Apr 19 - 08:58 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Apr 19 - 08:59 AM
Nigel Parsons 04 Apr 19 - 09:17 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Apr 19 - 09:21 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Apr 19 - 09:27 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Apr 19 - 09:31 AM
DMcG 04 Apr 19 - 09:45 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Apr 19 - 09:48 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Apr 19 - 10:40 AM
Iains 04 Apr 19 - 11:22 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Apr 19 - 04:12 PM
Jim Carroll 05 Apr 19 - 02:26 AM
Backwoodsman 05 Apr 19 - 02:36 AM
Jim Carroll 05 Apr 19 - 03:04 AM
Steve Shaw 05 Apr 19 - 04:58 AM
Jim Carroll 05 Apr 19 - 05:13 AM
Iains 05 Apr 19 - 07:46 AM
Dave the Gnome 05 Apr 19 - 07:57 AM
Jim Carroll 05 Apr 19 - 08:08 AM
peteaberdeen 05 Apr 19 - 09:39 AM
Jim Carroll 05 Apr 19 - 09:48 AM
Iains 05 Apr 19 - 10:14 AM
Dave the Gnome 05 Apr 19 - 10:22 AM
Raggytash 05 Apr 19 - 10:26 AM
David Carter (UK) 05 Apr 19 - 11:06 AM
Iains 05 Apr 19 - 12:26 PM
Backwoodsman 05 Apr 19 - 12:43 PM
Iains 05 Apr 19 - 01:21 PM
Backwoodsman 05 Apr 19 - 01:41 PM
Jim Carroll 05 Apr 19 - 02:05 PM
Backwoodsman 05 Apr 19 - 02:14 PM
Backwoodsman 05 Apr 19 - 03:22 PM
Steve Shaw 05 Apr 19 - 04:01 PM
Backwoodsman 05 Apr 19 - 04:08 PM
Steve Shaw 05 Apr 19 - 04:58 PM
DMcG 05 Apr 19 - 06:02 PM
Nigel Parsons 05 Apr 19 - 07:58 PM
Jim Carroll 06 Apr 19 - 02:47 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Apr 19 - 02:47 AM
DMcG 06 Apr 19 - 02:50 AM
The Sandman 06 Apr 19 - 03:47 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Apr 19 - 03:55 AM
David Carter (UK) 06 Apr 19 - 04:00 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 06 Apr 19 - 04:17 AM
Dave the Gnome 06 Apr 19 - 04:19 AM
Iains 06 Apr 19 - 04:30 AM
DMcG 06 Apr 19 - 04:51 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Apr 19 - 04:54 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Apr 19 - 04:56 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Apr 19 - 04:59 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Apr 19 - 05:32 AM
Dave the Gnome 06 Apr 19 - 07:20 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Apr 19 - 11:24 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Apr 19 - 12:10 PM
DMcG 07 Apr 19 - 03:47 AM
Iains 07 Apr 19 - 06:24 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 19 - 06:27 AM
The Sandman 07 Apr 19 - 06:47 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 07 Apr 19 - 06:50 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 07 Apr 19 - 06:52 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 19 - 06:53 AM
Iains 07 Apr 19 - 06:53 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 07 Apr 19 - 07:09 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 19 - 07:34 AM
Iains 07 Apr 19 - 08:12 AM
peteaberdeen 07 Apr 19 - 08:24 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 19 - 08:56 AM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Apr 19 - 09:10 AM
Iains 07 Apr 19 - 09:35 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 19 - 09:36 AM
DMcG 07 Apr 19 - 10:23 AM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Apr 19 - 10:34 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Apr 19 - 11:06 AM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Apr 19 - 11:41 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Apr 19 - 11:45 AM
SPB-Cooperator 07 Apr 19 - 12:19 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Apr 19 - 12:58 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Apr 19 - 01:03 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Apr 19 - 01:21 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 19 - 01:26 PM
Raggytash 07 Apr 19 - 01:57 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Apr 19 - 02:04 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Apr 19 - 02:07 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Apr 19 - 02:11 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Apr 19 - 02:19 PM
Raggytash 07 Apr 19 - 02:25 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 19 - 02:33 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Apr 19 - 02:41 PM
peteaberdeen 07 Apr 19 - 02:16 PM
peteaberdeen 07 Apr 19 - 02:33 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 19 - 02:35 PM
David Carter (UK) 07 Apr 19 - 02:40 PM
peteaberdeen 07 Apr 19 - 02:56 PM
Mrrzy 07 Apr 19 - 03:08 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Apr 19 - 04:20 PM
peteaberdeen 07 Apr 19 - 04:31 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Apr 19 - 04:47 PM
peteaberdeen 07 Apr 19 - 04:49 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Apr 19 - 04:51 PM
peteaberdeen 07 Apr 19 - 05:23 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Apr 19 - 05:37 PM
peteaberdeen 07 Apr 19 - 06:49 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Apr 19 - 07:02 PM
DMcG 08 Apr 19 - 02:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Apr 19 - 04:22 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Apr 19 - 04:31 AM
Iains 08 Apr 19 - 04:33 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Apr 19 - 04:39 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Apr 19 - 04:51 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Apr 19 - 04:51 AM
DMcG 08 Apr 19 - 04:58 AM
Iains 08 Apr 19 - 09:00 AM
DMcG 08 Apr 19 - 10:18 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Apr 19 - 10:50 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Apr 19 - 12:14 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Apr 19 - 01:24 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 08 Apr 19 - 01:25 PM
DMcG 08 Apr 19 - 02:04 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 08 Apr 19 - 03:32 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Apr 19 - 05:03 PM
Donuel 08 Apr 19 - 07:52 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 08 Apr 19 - 08:29 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 08 Apr 19 - 08:34 PM
Backwoodsman 09 Apr 19 - 03:06 AM
DMcG 09 Apr 19 - 06:25 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Apr 19 - 12:21 PM
Backwoodsman 09 Apr 19 - 12:26 PM
Backwoodsman 09 Apr 19 - 12:30 PM
DMcG 09 Apr 19 - 01:26 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 09 Apr 19 - 02:21 PM
Raggytash 09 Apr 19 - 03:09 PM
Monique 09 Apr 19 - 03:17 PM
Raggytash 09 Apr 19 - 03:41 PM
Raggytash 09 Apr 19 - 04:54 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Apr 19 - 05:01 PM
mg 09 Apr 19 - 06:08 PM
Stanron 09 Apr 19 - 06:49 PM
Backwoodsman 09 Apr 19 - 10:10 PM
DMcG 10 Apr 19 - 02:25 AM
DMcG 10 Apr 19 - 02:50 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 Apr 19 - 03:52 AM
David Carter (UK) 10 Apr 19 - 03:58 AM
peteaberdeen 10 Apr 19 - 04:21 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 Apr 19 - 04:21 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 10 Apr 19 - 06:56 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Apr 19 - 08:23 AM
David Carter (UK) 10 Apr 19 - 08:46 AM
Donuel 10 Apr 19 - 08:48 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 10 Apr 19 - 09:07 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Apr 19 - 09:09 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Apr 19 - 09:34 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 10 Apr 19 - 09:39 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 10 Apr 19 - 09:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 Apr 19 - 09:55 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Apr 19 - 03:39 PM
David Carter (UK) 11 Apr 19 - 03:58 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Apr 19 - 04:12 AM
DMcG 11 Apr 19 - 04:24 AM
DMcG 11 Apr 19 - 04:31 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Apr 19 - 04:38 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Apr 19 - 04:47 AM
Stanron 11 Apr 19 - 04:59 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Apr 19 - 05:00 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Apr 19 - 05:37 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Apr 19 - 06:24 AM
Stanron 11 Apr 19 - 06:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Apr 19 - 07:02 AM
DMcG 11 Apr 19 - 08:05 AM
DMcG 11 Apr 19 - 08:07 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Apr 19 - 08:37 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Apr 19 - 09:25 AM
Stanron 11 Apr 19 - 09:33 AM
Jon Freeman 11 Apr 19 - 09:33 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Apr 19 - 09:51 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Apr 19 - 09:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Apr 19 - 10:53 AM
Nigel Parsons 11 Apr 19 - 11:24 AM
Jeri 11 Apr 19 - 12:12 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Apr 19 - 01:07 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Apr 19 - 01:14 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Apr 19 - 01:29 PM
Backwoodsman 11 Apr 19 - 01:35 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Apr 19 - 01:43 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Apr 19 - 02:01 PM
Backwoodsman 11 Apr 19 - 02:08 PM
Jeri 11 Apr 19 - 06:34 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Apr 19 - 07:04 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Apr 19 - 07:05 PM
Dave the Gnome 12 Apr 19 - 04:50 AM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Apr 19 - 06:44 AM
Dave the Gnome 12 Apr 19 - 08:16 AM
DMcG 12 Apr 19 - 08:26 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Apr 19 - 01:21 PM
Raggytash 12 Apr 19 - 01:54 PM
Iains 12 Apr 19 - 05:26 PM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Apr 19 - 05:40 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Apr 19 - 08:05 PM
Dave the Gnome 13 Apr 19 - 12:03 PM
Backwoodsman 13 Apr 19 - 12:25 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Apr 19 - 12:51 PM
DMcG 13 Apr 19 - 12:55 PM
Backwoodsman 13 Apr 19 - 01:03 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Apr 19 - 01:16 PM
Iains 13 Apr 19 - 02:16 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Apr 19 - 03:04 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Apr 19 - 04:44 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Apr 19 - 06:55 PM
Jim Carroll 14 Apr 19 - 02:56 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 14 Apr 19 - 03:45 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Apr 19 - 04:16 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Apr 19 - 04:31 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Apr 19 - 05:19 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Apr 19 - 05:30 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Apr 19 - 06:18 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Apr 19 - 06:27 AM
Iains 14 Apr 19 - 06:51 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Apr 19 - 06:54 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Apr 19 - 06:54 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Apr 19 - 07:04 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Apr 19 - 07:08 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Apr 19 - 07:10 AM
peteaberdeen 14 Apr 19 - 09:28 AM
David Carter (UK) 14 Apr 19 - 10:37 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Apr 19 - 11:21 AM
The Sandman 14 Apr 19 - 12:42 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Apr 19 - 05:40 PM
Stilly River Sage 15 Apr 19 - 01:26 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Apr 19 - 02:05 AM
DMcG 15 Apr 19 - 02:24 AM
Nigel Parsons 15 Apr 19 - 04:34 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Apr 19 - 04:47 AM
Nigel Parsons 15 Apr 19 - 05:02 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Apr 19 - 05:31 AM
Nigel Parsons 15 Apr 19 - 05:55 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Apr 19 - 06:31 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Apr 19 - 06:32 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Apr 19 - 06:37 AM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Apr 19 - 08:31 AM
DMcG 15 Apr 19 - 12:13 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Apr 19 - 01:18 PM
DMcG 15 Apr 19 - 01:45 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 15 Apr 19 - 02:35 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Apr 19 - 07:44 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 15 Apr 19 - 08:19 PM
DMcG 16 Apr 19 - 03:07 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Apr 19 - 03:40 AM
peteaberdeen 16 Apr 19 - 04:00 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Apr 19 - 04:28 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Apr 19 - 04:41 AM
Nigel Parsons 16 Apr 19 - 05:44 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 16 Apr 19 - 05:50 AM
DMcG 16 Apr 19 - 05:51 AM
Nigel Parsons 16 Apr 19 - 06:07 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 16 Apr 19 - 06:12 AM
DMcG 16 Apr 19 - 06:40 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Apr 19 - 06:45 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 16 Apr 19 - 07:09 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Apr 19 - 07:39 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Apr 19 - 09:22 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 16 Apr 19 - 12:53 PM
Stilly River Sage 16 Apr 19 - 01:41 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Apr 19 - 01:57 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Apr 19 - 08:01 AM
Iains 18 Apr 19 - 03:01 AM
DMcG 18 Apr 19 - 03:31 AM
DMcG 18 Apr 19 - 03:36 AM
Iains 18 Apr 19 - 03:47 AM
Dave the Gnome 18 Apr 19 - 04:54 AM
DMcG 18 Apr 19 - 05:00 AM
Dave the Gnome 18 Apr 19 - 10:34 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Apr 19 - 11:03 AM
Stilly River Sage 18 Apr 19 - 11:05 AM
DMcG 18 Apr 19 - 01:36 PM
Nigel Parsons 18 Apr 19 - 01:57 PM
Nigel Parsons 18 Apr 19 - 02:01 PM
David Carter (UK) 18 Apr 19 - 02:08 PM
DMcG 18 Apr 19 - 02:20 PM
Iains 18 Apr 19 - 02:23 PM
Dave the Gnome 18 Apr 19 - 03:02 PM
Nigel Parsons 18 Apr 19 - 04:24 PM
Dave the Gnome 19 Apr 19 - 02:12 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Apr 19 - 02:45 AM
David Carter (UK) 19 Apr 19 - 03:14 AM
Iains 19 Apr 19 - 03:33 AM
DMcG 19 Apr 19 - 03:37 AM
David Carter (UK) 19 Apr 19 - 04:06 AM
David Carter (UK) 19 Apr 19 - 04:10 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Apr 19 - 04:42 AM
Stanron 19 Apr 19 - 05:11 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Apr 19 - 05:18 AM
DMcG 19 Apr 19 - 07:23 AM
Dave the Gnome 19 Apr 19 - 07:40 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Apr 19 - 07:56 AM
David Carter (UK) 19 Apr 19 - 08:03 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Apr 19 - 08:17 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Apr 19 - 08:21 AM
DMcG 19 Apr 19 - 08:46 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Apr 19 - 12:40 PM
DMcG 20 Apr 19 - 03:14 AM
Iains 20 Apr 19 - 03:54 AM
DMcG 20 Apr 19 - 05:45 AM
Iains 20 Apr 19 - 12:30 PM
Jim Carroll 21 Apr 19 - 02:06 AM
DMcG 21 Apr 19 - 02:37 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Apr 19 - 08:39 AM
Iains 21 Apr 19 - 01:20 PM
Nigel Parsons 22 Apr 19 - 08:49 AM
DMcG 22 Apr 19 - 09:35 AM
DMcG 22 Apr 19 - 09:54 AM
David Carter (UK) 22 Apr 19 - 11:10 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Apr 19 - 01:45 PM
Iains 23 Apr 19 - 04:01 AM
David Carter (UK) 23 Apr 19 - 04:18 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Apr 19 - 05:13 AM
David Carter (UK) 23 Apr 19 - 06:18 AM
Backwoodsman 24 Apr 19 - 03:14 AM
Raggytash 24 Apr 19 - 04:11 PM
Backwoodsman 25 Apr 19 - 02:06 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Apr 19 - 03:03 AM
DMcG 25 Apr 19 - 04:47 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Apr 19 - 05:18 AM
Nigel Parsons 25 Apr 19 - 06:34 PM
Dave the Gnome 26 Apr 19 - 02:53 AM
DMcG 26 Apr 19 - 04:41 AM
Backwoodsman 26 Apr 19 - 04:48 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Apr 19 - 06:43 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Apr 19 - 08:23 AM
SPB-Cooperator 26 Apr 19 - 10:05 AM
Nigel Parsons 26 Apr 19 - 10:21 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Apr 19 - 10:51 AM
DMcG 26 Apr 19 - 11:12 AM
Dave the Gnome 26 Apr 19 - 01:17 PM
DMcG 26 Apr 19 - 02:04 PM
Mossback 26 Apr 19 - 05:01 PM
DMcG 28 Apr 19 - 03:51 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 28 Apr 19 - 06:13 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Apr 19 - 07:36 AM
Iains 28 Apr 19 - 01:53 PM
Iains 28 Apr 19 - 02:07 PM
DMcG 29 Apr 19 - 02:13 AM
Iains 29 Apr 19 - 06:03 AM
mayomick 29 Apr 19 - 06:39 AM
Stanron 29 Apr 19 - 11:33 AM
Donuel 29 Apr 19 - 02:07 PM
Jim Carroll 29 Apr 19 - 02:33 PM
peteaberdeen 29 Apr 19 - 02:41 PM
peteaberdeen 29 Apr 19 - 04:32 PM
The Sandman 29 Apr 19 - 05:37 PM
DMcG 30 Apr 19 - 03:39 AM
Backwoodsman 30 Apr 19 - 04:55 AM
Steve Shaw 30 Apr 19 - 07:54 AM
Backwoodsman 30 Apr 19 - 08:28 AM
DMcG 30 Apr 19 - 12:11 PM
Dave the Gnome 01 May 19 - 04:10 AM
Backwoodsman 01 May 19 - 04:21 AM
Jim Carroll 01 May 19 - 01:14 PM
DMcG 02 May 19 - 05:45 AM
Iains 02 May 19 - 11:52 AM
Dave the Gnome 03 May 19 - 03:39 AM
DMcG 03 May 19 - 04:00 AM
Iains 03 May 19 - 04:15 AM
Iains 03 May 19 - 06:19 AM
David Carter (UK) 03 May 19 - 06:26 AM
Dave the Gnome 03 May 19 - 08:48 AM
Iains 03 May 19 - 10:01 AM
DMcG 03 May 19 - 10:40 AM
DMcG 03 May 19 - 10:50 AM
Dave the Gnome 03 May 19 - 10:55 AM
Iains 03 May 19 - 11:08 AM
Dave the Gnome 03 May 19 - 12:48 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 03 May 19 - 02:13 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 03 May 19 - 02:52 PM
Iains 03 May 19 - 02:53 PM
Steve Shaw 03 May 19 - 07:03 PM
Iains 04 May 19 - 01:36 PM
Iains 04 May 19 - 02:39 PM
David Carter (UK) 04 May 19 - 05:41 PM
DMcG 05 May 19 - 02:03 AM
Iains 05 May 19 - 02:42 AM
Jim Carroll 05 May 19 - 03:16 AM
Jim Carroll 05 May 19 - 03:16 AM
DMcG 05 May 19 - 04:07 AM
Dave the Gnome 05 May 19 - 04:33 AM
Iains 05 May 19 - 04:49 AM
Iains 05 May 19 - 05:18 AM
Iains 05 May 19 - 05:26 AM
David Carter (UK) 05 May 19 - 08:47 AM
DMcG 05 May 19 - 09:34 AM
Iains 05 May 19 - 02:08 PM
David Carter (UK) 05 May 19 - 02:11 PM
Iains 05 May 19 - 02:39 PM
DMcG 05 May 19 - 03:19 PM
Steve Shaw 05 May 19 - 07:50 PM
Jim Carroll 06 May 19 - 03:32 AM
Iains 06 May 19 - 03:47 AM
Iains 06 May 19 - 03:53 AM
David Carter (UK) 06 May 19 - 04:56 AM
DMcG 06 May 19 - 05:36 AM
Jim Carroll 06 May 19 - 05:42 AM
Iains 06 May 19 - 05:55 AM
peteaberdeen 06 May 19 - 06:24 AM
Iains 06 May 19 - 06:31 AM
Steve Shaw 06 May 19 - 06:44 AM
Jim Carroll 06 May 19 - 07:12 AM
DMcG 06 May 19 - 07:59 AM
Iains 06 May 19 - 08:22 AM
Steve Shaw 06 May 19 - 11:22 AM
Iains 06 May 19 - 02:02 PM
Steve Shaw 06 May 19 - 02:26 PM
Iains 06 May 19 - 03:07 PM
Raggytash 06 May 19 - 03:11 PM
Iains 06 May 19 - 03:37 PM
Raggytash 06 May 19 - 03:45 PM
DMcG 07 May 19 - 02:59 AM
DMcG 07 May 19 - 03:54 AM
Iains 07 May 19 - 04:49 AM
DMcG 07 May 19 - 05:03 AM
Iains 07 May 19 - 05:38 AM
David Carter (UK) 07 May 19 - 06:22 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 May 19 - 07:43 AM
DMcG 07 May 19 - 07:55 AM
Iains 07 May 19 - 08:04 AM
peteaberdeen 07 May 19 - 09:47 AM
peteaberdeen 07 May 19 - 12:38 PM
SPB-Cooperator 07 May 19 - 07:37 PM
Backwoodsman 08 May 19 - 02:14 AM
Iains 08 May 19 - 03:28 AM
The Sandman 08 May 19 - 03:41 PM
Dave the Gnome 08 May 19 - 03:49 PM
The Sandman 08 May 19 - 05:20 PM
Iains 08 May 19 - 06:29 PM
DMcG 09 May 19 - 01:17 AM
DMcG 09 May 19 - 01:21 AM
DMcG 09 May 19 - 08:06 AM
Backwoodsman 09 May 19 - 11:31 AM
Steve Shaw 09 May 19 - 02:15 PM
DMcG 09 May 19 - 02:17 PM
The Sandman 09 May 19 - 02:24 PM
Backwoodsman 09 May 19 - 05:02 PM
Dave the Gnome 10 May 19 - 03:54 AM
Iains 10 May 19 - 04:31 AM
Steve Shaw 10 May 19 - 05:26 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 May 19 - 05:58 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 May 19 - 06:02 AM
DMcG 10 May 19 - 06:35 AM
Iains 10 May 19 - 07:24 AM
DMcG 10 May 19 - 07:38 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 May 19 - 07:41 AM
DMcG 10 May 19 - 07:43 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 May 19 - 08:12 AM
Steve Shaw 10 May 19 - 09:09 AM
Iains 10 May 19 - 09:15 AM
Backwoodsman 10 May 19 - 09:44 AM
Iains 10 May 19 - 10:06 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 May 19 - 10:13 AM
Jim Carroll 10 May 19 - 11:05 AM
Iains 10 May 19 - 12:21 PM
Stilly River Sage 10 May 19 - 12:24 PM
Backwoodsman 10 May 19 - 12:30 PM
DMcG 10 May 19 - 01:57 PM
Mossback 10 May 19 - 03:25 PM
Donuel 10 May 19 - 08:29 PM
DMcG 11 May 19 - 02:27 AM
Iains 11 May 19 - 03:28 AM
David Carter (UK) 11 May 19 - 06:14 AM
Iains 11 May 19 - 06:29 AM
Nigel Parsons 11 May 19 - 08:59 AM
Donuel 11 May 19 - 09:14 AM
DMcG 11 May 19 - 10:21 AM
Iains 11 May 19 - 01:08 PM
Jim Carroll 12 May 19 - 03:10 AM
DMcG 12 May 19 - 03:47 AM
Jim Carroll 12 May 19 - 04:21 AM
Iains 12 May 19 - 04:23 AM
Iains 12 May 19 - 05:40 AM
Jim Carroll 12 May 19 - 06:06 AM
Iains 12 May 19 - 06:55 AM
Dave the Gnome 12 May 19 - 07:38 AM
Jim Carroll 12 May 19 - 08:14 AM
Jim Carroll 13 May 19 - 11:36 AM
peteaberdeen 13 May 19 - 11:56 AM
David Carter (UK) 13 May 19 - 11:56 AM
Stanron 13 May 19 - 12:30 PM
DMcG 13 May 19 - 12:40 PM
Iains 13 May 19 - 01:21 PM
David Carter (UK) 13 May 19 - 01:39 PM
Jim Carroll 13 May 19 - 01:48 PM
Nigel Parsons 13 May 19 - 02:16 PM
DMcG 13 May 19 - 02:45 PM
Stanron 13 May 19 - 03:35 PM
DMcG 14 May 19 - 03:22 AM
Iains 14 May 19 - 04:54 AM
Jim Carroll 14 May 19 - 06:59 AM
Stanron 14 May 19 - 07:25 AM
DMcG 14 May 19 - 08:31 AM
Stanron 14 May 19 - 09:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 May 19 - 11:08 AM
Stanron 14 May 19 - 11:18 AM
Jim Carroll 14 May 19 - 11:26 AM
DMcG 14 May 19 - 11:43 AM
Nigel Parsons 14 May 19 - 11:43 AM
Jim Carroll 14 May 19 - 12:31 PM
Iains 14 May 19 - 01:32 PM
Backwoodsman 14 May 19 - 01:41 PM
Jim Carroll 14 May 19 - 01:42 PM
Jim Carroll 14 May 19 - 02:32 PM
Nigel Parsons 14 May 19 - 02:42 PM
Jim Carroll 14 May 19 - 02:57 PM
Iains 14 May 19 - 03:47 PM
Jim Carroll 14 May 19 - 04:05 PM
Raggytash 14 May 19 - 04:40 PM
Iains 14 May 19 - 04:51 PM
Stanron 14 May 19 - 05:25 PM
Raggytash 14 May 19 - 06:06 PM
Jim Carroll 15 May 19 - 03:35 AM
Stanron 15 May 19 - 04:23 AM
Jim Carroll 15 May 19 - 05:18 AM
Iains 15 May 19 - 05:32 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 May 19 - 06:50 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 May 19 - 06:51 AM
Iains 15 May 19 - 06:59 AM
Jim Carroll 15 May 19 - 07:27 AM
Iains 15 May 19 - 07:58 AM
Jim Carroll 15 May 19 - 08:34 AM
Iains 15 May 19 - 09:27 AM
Jim Carroll 15 May 19 - 10:49 AM
Jim Carroll 15 May 19 - 11:54 AM
Stanron 15 May 19 - 01:13 PM
Backwoodsman 15 May 19 - 01:27 PM
Stanron 15 May 19 - 01:46 PM
Jim Carroll 15 May 19 - 03:03 PM
Backwoodsman 15 May 19 - 03:38 PM
Stanron 15 May 19 - 03:48 PM
Raggytash 15 May 19 - 04:00 PM
Dave the Gnome 15 May 19 - 04:29 PM
Stanron 15 May 19 - 04:57 PM
Raggytash 15 May 19 - 05:08 PM
Steve Shaw 15 May 19 - 05:24 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 15 May 19 - 05:26 PM
Steve Shaw 15 May 19 - 05:56 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 15 May 19 - 06:05 PM
Iains 15 May 19 - 06:16 PM
Iains 15 May 19 - 06:30 PM
Steve Shaw 15 May 19 - 06:44 PM
Jim Carroll 15 May 19 - 07:40 PM
Stanron 15 May 19 - 08:03 PM
Steve Shaw 15 May 19 - 08:29 PM
Stanron 15 May 19 - 10:27 PM
Jim Carroll 16 May 19 - 01:56 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 May 19 - 02:51 AM
Stanron 16 May 19 - 05:55 AM
Steve Shaw 16 May 19 - 06:52 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 May 19 - 07:59 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 May 19 - 08:47 AM
Steve Shaw 16 May 19 - 11:11 AM
Backwoodsman 16 May 19 - 11:22 AM
Jim Carroll 16 May 19 - 11:32 AM
Iains 16 May 19 - 11:45 AM
Backwoodsman 16 May 19 - 12:27 PM
Iains 16 May 19 - 01:36 PM
Raggytash 16 May 19 - 01:39 PM
Stanron 16 May 19 - 01:43 PM
Raggytash 16 May 19 - 02:07 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 16 May 19 - 02:13 PM
Steve Shaw 16 May 19 - 02:39 PM
Stanron 16 May 19 - 06:01 PM
Steve Shaw 16 May 19 - 06:28 PM
Stanron 16 May 19 - 06:33 PM
Stanron 16 May 19 - 06:38 PM
Steve Shaw 16 May 19 - 06:38 PM
Stanron 16 May 19 - 06:48 PM
Backwoodsman 16 May 19 - 06:49 PM
Steve Shaw 16 May 19 - 08:03 PM
DMcG 17 May 19 - 02:22 AM
David Carter (UK) 17 May 19 - 02:26 AM
Steve Shaw 17 May 19 - 03:32 AM
Iains 17 May 19 - 03:55 AM
DMcG 17 May 19 - 04:21 AM
Jim Carroll 17 May 19 - 04:26 AM
Iains 17 May 19 - 04:48 AM
Iains 17 May 19 - 05:05 AM
Backwoodsman 17 May 19 - 05:23 AM
Jim Carroll 17 May 19 - 05:25 AM
Iains 17 May 19 - 06:04 AM
Jim Carroll 17 May 19 - 06:50 AM
Iains 17 May 19 - 06:52 AM
DMcG 17 May 19 - 07:34 AM
DMcG 17 May 19 - 07:56 AM
Jim Carroll 17 May 19 - 08:12 AM
SPB-Cooperator 17 May 19 - 08:21 AM
Jim Carroll 17 May 19 - 09:09 AM
Iains 17 May 19 - 01:07 PM
peteaberdeen 17 May 19 - 01:25 PM
DMcG 17 May 19 - 01:40 PM
Jim Carroll 17 May 19 - 01:55 PM
Iains 17 May 19 - 02:26 PM
Jim Carroll 18 May 19 - 02:30 AM
Iains 18 May 19 - 04:19 AM
Jim Carroll 18 May 19 - 02:58 PM
Iains 18 May 19 - 04:03 PM
Mrrzy 18 May 19 - 05:27 PM
Raggytash 18 May 19 - 06:52 PM
Jim Carroll 19 May 19 - 02:25 AM
Iains 19 May 19 - 02:41 AM
Iains 19 May 19 - 03:15 AM
DMcG 19 May 19 - 03:30 AM
Jim Carroll 19 May 19 - 03:32 AM
DMcG 19 May 19 - 03:34 AM
Jim Carroll 19 May 19 - 04:01 AM
Iains 19 May 19 - 04:30 AM
Backwoodsman 19 May 19 - 04:54 AM
Backwoodsman 19 May 19 - 07:08 AM
David Carter (UK) 19 May 19 - 07:48 AM
Jim Carroll 19 May 19 - 08:15 AM
Backwoodsman 19 May 19 - 08:49 AM
Backwoodsman 19 May 19 - 08:55 AM
Iains 19 May 19 - 11:08 AM
Backwoodsman 19 May 19 - 12:01 PM
Iains 19 May 19 - 12:17 PM
DMcG 19 May 19 - 12:45 PM
Backwoodsman 19 May 19 - 12:59 PM
DMcG 19 May 19 - 01:31 PM
Iains 19 May 19 - 02:13 PM
Raggytash 19 May 19 - 02:27 PM
DMcG 19 May 19 - 02:37 PM
Raggytash 19 May 19 - 02:50 PM
Iains 19 May 19 - 02:54 PM
DMcG 20 May 19 - 03:04 AM
Iains 20 May 19 - 04:24 AM
Iains 20 May 19 - 04:36 AM
Backwoodsman 20 May 19 - 07:39 AM
DMcG 20 May 19 - 08:25 AM
Iains 20 May 19 - 09:31 AM
Jim Carroll 20 May 19 - 10:02 AM
Jim Carroll 20 May 19 - 10:02 AM
DMcG 20 May 19 - 10:16 AM
Iains 20 May 19 - 10:23 AM
Jim Carroll 20 May 19 - 10:53 AM
Backwoodsman 20 May 19 - 10:58 AM
Backwoodsman 20 May 19 - 11:01 AM
Iains 20 May 19 - 11:07 AM
Dave the Gnome 20 May 19 - 11:28 AM
Iains 20 May 19 - 12:13 PM
DMcG 20 May 19 - 01:08 PM
Backwoodsman 20 May 19 - 01:33 PM
Jim Carroll 20 May 19 - 01:52 PM
DMcG 20 May 19 - 02:25 PM
Iains 21 May 19 - 03:49 AM
Nigel Parsons 21 May 19 - 04:12 AM
Iains 21 May 19 - 04:37 AM
Iains 21 May 19 - 05:11 AM
DMcG 21 May 19 - 05:51 AM
Jim Carroll 21 May 19 - 06:38 AM
Dave the Gnome 21 May 19 - 06:57 AM
Jim Carroll 21 May 19 - 07:22 AM
Dave the Gnome 21 May 19 - 07:25 AM
The Sandman 21 May 19 - 08:10 AM
Jim Carroll 21 May 19 - 08:32 AM
DMcG 21 May 19 - 08:40 AM
Jim Carroll 21 May 19 - 09:23 AM
DMcG 21 May 19 - 11:20 AM
Jim Carroll 21 May 19 - 11:45 AM
Jim Carroll 21 May 19 - 12:43 PM
Jim Carroll 21 May 19 - 01:03 PM
Jim Carroll 21 May 19 - 01:33 PM
Iains 21 May 19 - 04:35 PM
DMcG 22 May 19 - 03:29 AM
Iains 22 May 19 - 04:11 AM
DMcG 22 May 19 - 04:18 AM
DMcG 22 May 19 - 04:38 AM
Iains 22 May 19 - 05:05 AM
Iains 22 May 19 - 05:11 AM
Jim Carroll 22 May 19 - 07:41 AM
Nigel Parsons 22 May 19 - 07:48 AM
Jim Carroll 22 May 19 - 08:04 AM
Backwoodsman 22 May 19 - 08:08 AM
Backwoodsman 22 May 19 - 08:12 AM
Jim Carroll 22 May 19 - 08:17 AM
Iains 22 May 19 - 08:17 AM
Backwoodsman 22 May 19 - 08:20 AM
Iains 22 May 19 - 08:25 AM
Dave the Gnome 22 May 19 - 08:36 AM
Iains 22 May 19 - 08:43 AM
Jim Carroll 22 May 19 - 08:48 AM
Backwoodsman 22 May 19 - 08:53 AM
Nigel Parsons 22 May 19 - 09:18 AM
DMcG 22 May 19 - 10:26 AM
DMcG 22 May 19 - 10:53 AM
Jim Carroll 22 May 19 - 11:01 AM
DMcG 22 May 19 - 11:07 AM
Iains 22 May 19 - 11:17 AM
Jim Carroll 22 May 19 - 11:50 AM
Backwoodsman 22 May 19 - 12:10 PM
Jim Carroll 22 May 19 - 12:13 PM
Dave the Gnome 22 May 19 - 12:41 PM
Jim Carroll 22 May 19 - 01:02 PM
Iains 22 May 19 - 01:11 PM
DMcG 22 May 19 - 01:17 PM
Iains 22 May 19 - 01:23 PM
DMcG 22 May 19 - 01:27 PM
DMcG 22 May 19 - 01:40 PM
Dave the Gnome 22 May 19 - 01:53 PM
Jim Carroll 22 May 19 - 01:54 PM
Raggytash 22 May 19 - 04:54 PM
Nigel Parsons 22 May 19 - 05:05 PM
Backwoodsman 22 May 19 - 05:13 PM
DMcG 22 May 19 - 05:17 PM
Backwoodsman 22 May 19 - 05:25 PM
Steve Shaw 22 May 19 - 08:08 PM
DMcG 23 May 19 - 02:51 AM
Jim Carroll 23 May 19 - 02:59 AM
Backwoodsman 23 May 19 - 03:08 AM
DMcG 23 May 19 - 03:23 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 May 19 - 03:40 AM
Iains 23 May 19 - 03:43 AM
Iains 23 May 19 - 03:50 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 May 19 - 04:11 AM
Jim Carroll 23 May 19 - 04:19 AM
DMcG 23 May 19 - 04:20 AM
Jim Carroll 23 May 19 - 06:16 AM
Backwoodsman 23 May 19 - 07:30 AM
Backwoodsman 23 May 19 - 07:49 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 May 19 - 08:12 AM
Backwoodsman 23 May 19 - 08:44 AM
Raggytash 23 May 19 - 11:13 AM
Backwoodsman 23 May 19 - 11:27 AM
Rain Dog 23 May 19 - 11:54 AM
Backwoodsman 23 May 19 - 12:29 PM
David Carter (UK) 23 May 19 - 12:47 PM
Steve Shaw 23 May 19 - 01:44 PM
David Carter (UK) 23 May 19 - 01:46 PM
Iains 23 May 19 - 01:47 PM
Backwoodsman 23 May 19 - 01:52 PM
Iains 23 May 19 - 02:05 PM
David Carter (UK) 23 May 19 - 03:28 PM
Steve Shaw 23 May 19 - 03:58 PM
Steve Shaw 23 May 19 - 05:21 PM
Raggytash 23 May 19 - 06:59 PM
Backwoodsman 24 May 19 - 02:07 AM
DMcG 24 May 19 - 02:17 AM
Jim Carroll 24 May 19 - 02:50 AM
Dave the Gnome 24 May 19 - 03:02 AM
Jim Carroll 24 May 19 - 03:28 AM
Iains 24 May 19 - 04:43 AM
Iains 24 May 19 - 05:27 AM
Backwoodsman 24 May 19 - 07:10 AM
Backwoodsman 24 May 19 - 07:29 AM
Jim Carroll 24 May 19 - 08:14 AM
DMcG 24 May 19 - 09:56 AM
Donuel 24 May 19 - 12:55 PM
SPB-Cooperator 24 May 19 - 04:38 PM
DMcG 25 May 19 - 02:21 AM
Iains 25 May 19 - 02:54 AM
DMcG 25 May 19 - 06:16 AM
Jim Carroll 25 May 19 - 07:52 AM
Nigel Parsons 25 May 19 - 10:23 AM
Jim Carroll 25 May 19 - 10:33 AM
Nigel Parsons 25 May 19 - 01:55 PM
Jim Carroll 25 May 19 - 02:00 PM
Nigel Parsons 25 May 19 - 02:02 PM
Jim Carroll 25 May 19 - 02:53 PM
Nigel Parsons 25 May 19 - 04:20 PM
Steve Shaw 25 May 19 - 04:50 PM
Nigel Parsons 25 May 19 - 05:00 PM
Steve Shaw 25 May 19 - 05:12 PM
Steve Shaw 25 May 19 - 05:40 PM
Backwoodsman 25 May 19 - 05:50 PM
SPB-Cooperator 25 May 19 - 06:07 PM
Steve Shaw 25 May 19 - 06:57 PM
Iains 26 May 19 - 01:59 AM
Backwoodsman 26 May 19 - 02:51 AM
DMcG 26 May 19 - 03:45 AM
Iains 26 May 19 - 04:55 AM
DMcG 26 May 19 - 05:01 AM
Iains 26 May 19 - 05:44 AM
Jim Carroll 26 May 19 - 10:42 AM
Nigel Parsons 26 May 19 - 11:12 AM
Nigel Parsons 26 May 19 - 02:06 PM
David C. Carter 26 May 19 - 02:19 PM
DMcG 26 May 19 - 02:21 PM
DMcG 26 May 19 - 02:23 PM
DMcG 26 May 19 - 02:32 PM
Stanron 26 May 19 - 06:32 PM
Steve Shaw 26 May 19 - 06:57 PM
Stanron 26 May 19 - 08:31 PM
Steve Shaw 26 May 19 - 08:45 PM
Stanron 26 May 19 - 08:47 PM
Steve Shaw 26 May 19 - 09:01 PM
Stanron 26 May 19 - 09:13 PM
Iains 26 May 19 - 10:18 PM
Stanron 26 May 19 - 10:39 PM
Jon Freeman 26 May 19 - 11:04 PM
DMcG 27 May 19 - 01:29 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 May 19 - 02:39 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 May 19 - 04:03 AM
Steve Shaw 27 May 19 - 05:45 AM
Steve Shaw 27 May 19 - 05:54 AM
Backwoodsman 27 May 19 - 05:58 AM
Iains 27 May 19 - 06:07 AM
Steve Shaw 27 May 19 - 06:15 AM
Iains 27 May 19 - 06:38 AM
DMcG 27 May 19 - 08:25 AM
Steve Shaw 27 May 19 - 09:03 AM
Iains 27 May 19 - 09:27 AM
Raggytash 27 May 19 - 10:16 AM
peteaberdeen 27 May 19 - 11:05 AM
Steve Shaw 27 May 19 - 11:48 AM
DMcG 27 May 19 - 12:07 PM
Dave the Gnome 27 May 19 - 01:14 PM
Iains 27 May 19 - 01:23 PM
Backwoodsman 27 May 19 - 02:33 PM
DMcG 28 May 19 - 02:46 AM
Iains 28 May 19 - 03:59 AM
DMcG 28 May 19 - 04:01 AM
Iains 28 May 19 - 04:40 AM
Dave the Gnome 28 May 19 - 06:44 AM
Iains 28 May 19 - 06:56 AM
DMcG 28 May 19 - 07:27 AM
Backwoodsman 28 May 19 - 07:49 AM
DMcG 28 May 19 - 07:54 AM
Backwoodsman 28 May 19 - 08:32 AM
Dave the Gnome 28 May 19 - 08:37 AM
Steve Shaw 28 May 19 - 08:37 AM
Jim Carroll 28 May 19 - 09:15 AM
Jim Carroll 28 May 19 - 09:18 AM
DMcG 28 May 19 - 11:38 AM
Steve Shaw 28 May 19 - 11:50 AM
Dave the Gnome 28 May 19 - 12:06 PM
DMcG 28 May 19 - 12:22 PM
Iains 28 May 19 - 01:18 PM
DMcG 28 May 19 - 01:46 PM
Iains 28 May 19 - 02:04 PM
DMcG 28 May 19 - 02:35 PM
Stanron 28 May 19 - 02:36 PM
Stanron 28 May 19 - 02:41 PM
Dave the Gnome 28 May 19 - 05:04 PM
Backwoodsman 29 May 19 - 02:24 AM
Backwoodsman 29 May 19 - 02:35 AM
DMcG 29 May 19 - 03:20 AM
Dave the Gnome 29 May 19 - 05:00 AM
Dave the Gnome 29 May 19 - 06:36 AM
DMcG 29 May 19 - 07:05 AM
Backwoodsman 29 May 19 - 07:28 AM
Stanron 29 May 19 - 08:39 AM
Stanron 29 May 19 - 09:11 AM
Dave the Gnome 29 May 19 - 10:41 AM
Stanron 29 May 19 - 11:03 AM
DMcG 29 May 19 - 12:10 PM
Iains 29 May 19 - 04:36 PM
peteaberdeen 29 May 19 - 04:46 PM
Dave the Gnome 29 May 19 - 05:08 PM
Iains 29 May 19 - 05:20 PM
bobad 29 May 19 - 05:33 PM
Big Al Whittle 29 May 19 - 05:58 PM
Steve Shaw 29 May 19 - 06:05 PM
Iains 29 May 19 - 06:34 PM
DMcG 30 May 19 - 02:29 AM
Iains 30 May 19 - 02:56 AM
DMcG 30 May 19 - 03:27 AM
Iains 30 May 19 - 04:59 AM
Iains 30 May 19 - 12:14 PM
DMcG 30 May 19 - 12:45 PM
Mossback 30 May 19 - 01:15 PM
Iains 30 May 19 - 01:28 PM
David Carter (UK) 30 May 19 - 02:14 PM
Steve Shaw 30 May 19 - 03:09 PM
David Carter (UK) 30 May 19 - 03:16 PM
Iains 30 May 19 - 03:21 PM
Big Al Whittle 30 May 19 - 03:28 PM
DMcG 30 May 19 - 04:02 PM
DMcG 30 May 19 - 04:17 PM
Nigel Parsons 30 May 19 - 05:13 PM
DMcG 30 May 19 - 05:38 PM
Big Al Whittle 30 May 19 - 07:01 PM
Big Al Whittle 30 May 19 - 09:12 PM
Steve Shaw 30 May 19 - 11:34 PM
Backwoodsman 31 May 19 - 01:59 AM
DMcG 31 May 19 - 02:08 AM
Dave the Gnome 31 May 19 - 02:51 AM
Iains 31 May 19 - 03:26 AM
Dave the Gnome 31 May 19 - 03:51 AM
Iains 31 May 19 - 04:01 AM
DMcG 31 May 19 - 04:02 AM
Big Al Whittle 31 May 19 - 04:15 AM
DMcG 31 May 19 - 04:28 AM
DMcG 31 May 19 - 04:36 AM
Iains 31 May 19 - 04:42 AM
Dave the Gnome 31 May 19 - 05:02 AM
Iains 31 May 19 - 05:35 AM
Big Al Whittle 31 May 19 - 07:03 AM
DMcG 31 May 19 - 07:07 AM
Iains 31 May 19 - 07:18 AM
DMcG 31 May 19 - 07:22 AM
Nigel Parsons 31 May 19 - 07:38 AM
Big Al Whittle 31 May 19 - 08:14 AM
Dave the Gnome 31 May 19 - 08:20 AM
DMcG 31 May 19 - 08:27 AM
David Carter (UK) 31 May 19 - 08:41 AM
Backwoodsman 31 May 19 - 10:09 AM
Big Al Whittle 31 May 19 - 12:22 PM
Big Al Whittle 31 May 19 - 12:23 PM
Backwoodsman 31 May 19 - 12:28 PM
Big Al Whittle 31 May 19 - 09:47 PM
Dave the Gnome 01 Jun 19 - 01:55 AM
DMcG 01 Jun 19 - 02:22 AM
DMcG 01 Jun 19 - 02:42 AM
Iains 01 Jun 19 - 03:48 AM
peteaberdeen 01 Jun 19 - 05:27 AM
Iains 01 Jun 19 - 05:48 AM
Backwoodsman 01 Jun 19 - 05:56 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Jun 19 - 07:19 AM
Iains 01 Jun 19 - 07:54 AM
Mr Red 01 Jun 19 - 10:44 AM
Big Al Whittle 01 Jun 19 - 02:47 PM
Big Al Whittle 01 Jun 19 - 11:03 PM
DMcG 02 Jun 19 - 02:41 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jun 19 - 04:21 AM
Iains 02 Jun 19 - 04:25 AM
DMcG 02 Jun 19 - 04:28 AM
DMcG 02 Jun 19 - 04:43 AM
Big Al Whittle 02 Jun 19 - 05:08 AM
Iains 02 Jun 19 - 05:45 AM
Big Al Whittle 02 Jun 19 - 06:49 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jun 19 - 07:39 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jun 19 - 07:41 AM
David Carter (UK) 02 Jun 19 - 08:12 AM
Iains 02 Jun 19 - 08:12 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jun 19 - 08:31 AM
Stanron 02 Jun 19 - 08:31 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jun 19 - 08:35 AM
Stanron 02 Jun 19 - 08:45 AM
Iains 02 Jun 19 - 08:50 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jun 19 - 09:08 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jun 19 - 09:13 AM
Iains 02 Jun 19 - 09:28 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Jun 19 - 09:40 AM
Big Al Whittle 02 Jun 19 - 09:48 AM
DMcG 02 Jun 19 - 09:57 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Jun 19 - 10:20 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Jun 19 - 10:30 AM
DMcG 02 Jun 19 - 01:25 PM
Backwoodsman 02 Jun 19 - 01:31 PM
David Carter (UK) 02 Jun 19 - 02:43 PM
Iains 02 Jun 19 - 04:05 PM
Big Al Whittle 02 Jun 19 - 04:13 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Jun 19 - 05:07 PM
Big Al Whittle 02 Jun 19 - 07:01 PM
DMcG 03 Jun 19 - 02:11 AM
Dave the Gnome 03 Jun 19 - 02:21 AM
Big Al Whittle 03 Jun 19 - 02:24 AM
David Carter (UK) 03 Jun 19 - 02:27 AM
Big Al Whittle 03 Jun 19 - 02:48 AM
DMcG 03 Jun 19 - 04:01 AM
Dave the Gnome 03 Jun 19 - 05:20 AM
Big Al Whittle 03 Jun 19 - 06:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 03 Jun 19 - 07:48 AM
Backwoodsman 03 Jun 19 - 08:10 AM
Backwoodsman 03 Jun 19 - 08:13 AM
Dave the Gnome 03 Jun 19 - 09:43 AM
Big Al Whittle 03 Jun 19 - 10:14 AM
Raggytash 03 Jun 19 - 10:22 AM
Iains 03 Jun 19 - 10:27 AM
Raggytash 03 Jun 19 - 11:54 AM
Iains 03 Jun 19 - 12:16 PM
DMcG 03 Jun 19 - 12:30 PM
Dave the Gnome 03 Jun 19 - 12:35 PM
Dave the Gnome 03 Jun 19 - 12:38 PM
Big Al Whittle 03 Jun 19 - 01:54 PM
Big Al Whittle 03 Jun 19 - 01:59 PM
Dave the Gnome 03 Jun 19 - 02:22 PM
bobad 03 Jun 19 - 02:26 PM
Dave the Gnome 03 Jun 19 - 02:32 PM
Mossback 03 Jun 19 - 02:36 PM
gillymor 03 Jun 19 - 02:39 PM
Iains 03 Jun 19 - 03:22 PM
Raggytash 03 Jun 19 - 03:34 PM
David Carter (UK) 03 Jun 19 - 03:35 PM
Big Al Whittle 03 Jun 19 - 05:57 PM
Dave the Gnome 04 Jun 19 - 03:01 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Jun 19 - 07:20 AM
DMcG 04 Jun 19 - 10:53 AM
DMcG 04 Jun 19 - 10:55 AM
DMcG 04 Jun 19 - 10:59 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Jun 19 - 12:29 PM
Raggytash 05 Jun 19 - 07:08 AM
Backwoodsman 05 Jun 19 - 07:25 AM
Iains 05 Jun 19 - 01:11 PM
Raggytash 05 Jun 19 - 02:29 PM
DMcG 06 Jun 19 - 02:09 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Jun 19 - 02:29 AM
Iains 06 Jun 19 - 03:22 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Jun 19 - 04:41 AM
Nigel Parsons 06 Jun 19 - 05:29 AM
DMcG 06 Jun 19 - 06:52 AM
Raggytash 06 Jun 19 - 07:56 AM
Nigel Parsons 06 Jun 19 - 09:01 AM
DMcG 06 Jun 19 - 09:17 AM
DMcG 06 Jun 19 - 09:23 AM
David Carter (UK) 06 Jun 19 - 10:08 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Jun 19 - 10:48 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Jun 19 - 10:50 AM
Nigel Parsons 06 Jun 19 - 11:33 AM
DMcG 06 Jun 19 - 12:53 PM
Backwoodsman 06 Jun 19 - 01:49 PM
Dave the Gnome 06 Jun 19 - 02:41 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Jun 19 - 12:50 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Jun 19 - 02:02 AM
DMcG 07 Jun 19 - 02:06 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Jun 19 - 02:10 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Jun 19 - 02:47 AM
Iains 07 Jun 19 - 02:51 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Jun 19 - 03:00 AM
Iains 07 Jun 19 - 03:29 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Jun 19 - 03:48 AM
Iains 07 Jun 19 - 04:08 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Jun 19 - 04:56 AM
Iains 07 Jun 19 - 06:08 AM
Iains 07 Jun 19 - 06:13 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Jun 19 - 06:20 AM
David Carter (UK) 07 Jun 19 - 06:32 AM
David Carter (UK) 07 Jun 19 - 06:40 AM
Raggytash 07 Jun 19 - 06:46 AM
DMcG 07 Jun 19 - 06:47 AM
Iains 07 Jun 19 - 07:26 AM
Raggytash 07 Jun 19 - 07:35 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Jun 19 - 07:38 AM
DMcG 07 Jun 19 - 07:39 AM
DMcG 07 Jun 19 - 07:40 AM
Iains 07 Jun 19 - 08:02 AM
Iains 07 Jun 19 - 08:08 AM
Raggytash 07 Jun 19 - 08:14 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Jun 19 - 09:46 AM
Iains 07 Jun 19 - 10:15 AM
DMcG 07 Jun 19 - 10:39 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Jun 19 - 10:56 AM
Iains 07 Jun 19 - 12:35 PM
DMcG 07 Jun 19 - 12:56 PM
Nigel Parsons 07 Jun 19 - 01:01 PM
Nigel Parsons 07 Jun 19 - 01:05 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Jun 19 - 01:28 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Jun 19 - 01:37 PM
Nigel Parsons 07 Jun 19 - 01:40 PM
Iains 07 Jun 19 - 01:42 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Jun 19 - 02:25 PM
Iains 07 Jun 19 - 02:44 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Jun 19 - 02:58 PM
Raggytash 07 Jun 19 - 03:32 PM
Iains 07 Jun 19 - 04:30 PM
Raggytash 07 Jun 19 - 04:39 PM
Iains 07 Jun 19 - 04:53 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Jun 19 - 04:55 PM
DMcG 07 Jun 19 - 05:15 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Jun 19 - 05:21 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Jun 19 - 05:44 PM
Backwoodsman 08 Jun 19 - 01:59 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Jun 19 - 02:19 AM
DMcG 08 Jun 19 - 02:40 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Jun 19 - 02:40 AM
DMcG 08 Jun 19 - 03:48 AM
Iains 08 Jun 19 - 04:48 AM
Raggytash 08 Jun 19 - 05:27 AM
David Carter (UK) 08 Jun 19 - 05:47 AM
Iains 08 Jun 19 - 05:49 AM
Iains 08 Jun 19 - 05:52 AM
Iains 08 Jun 19 - 06:02 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Jun 19 - 06:04 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Jun 19 - 07:05 AM
bobad 08 Jun 19 - 07:39 AM
Iains 08 Jun 19 - 07:41 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Jun 19 - 09:23 AM
Iains 08 Jun 19 - 12:57 PM
Raggytash 08 Jun 19 - 02:04 PM
Backwoodsman 08 Jun 19 - 02:13 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Jun 19 - 03:39 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jun 19 - 03:11 AM
Iains 09 Jun 19 - 05:35 AM
Iains 09 Jun 19 - 10:15 AM
DMcG 09 Jun 19 - 10:39 AM
Iains 09 Jun 19 - 10:57 AM
DMcG 09 Jun 19 - 01:21 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jun 19 - 01:33 PM
Backwoodsman 09 Jun 19 - 01:46 PM
Iains 09 Jun 19 - 02:02 PM
DMcG 09 Jun 19 - 02:10 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jun 19 - 02:14 PM
Raggytash 09 Jun 19 - 02:14 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jun 19 - 02:16 PM
Backwoodsman 09 Jun 19 - 02:18 PM
Backwoodsman 09 Jun 19 - 02:20 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jun 19 - 02:46 PM
Backwoodsman 09 Jun 19 - 03:27 PM
Iains 10 Jun 19 - 04:52 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Jun 19 - 02:08 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jun 19 - 04:50 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Jun 19 - 05:24 AM
Iains 11 Jun 19 - 06:24 AM
Raggytash 11 Jun 19 - 06:45 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Jun 19 - 06:50 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jun 19 - 06:51 AM
Iains 11 Jun 19 - 08:01 AM
Raggytash 11 Jun 19 - 08:10 AM
Iains 11 Jun 19 - 10:40 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Jun 19 - 10:56 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Jun 19 - 11:00 AM
Raggytash 11 Jun 19 - 11:04 AM
SPB-Cooperator 11 Jun 19 - 11:37 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jun 19 - 12:19 PM
SPB-Cooperator 11 Jun 19 - 11:17 PM
DMcG 12 Jun 19 - 02:14 AM
Iains 12 Jun 19 - 09:29 AM
Raggytash 12 Jun 19 - 10:16 AM
Iains 12 Jun 19 - 12:02 PM
DMcG 12 Jun 19 - 12:54 PM
Iains 12 Jun 19 - 02:24 PM
Dave the Gnome 12 Jun 19 - 03:22 PM
Raggytash 12 Jun 19 - 03:44 PM
SPB-Cooperator 12 Jun 19 - 05:05 PM
The Sandman 13 Jun 19 - 12:30 AM
DMcG 13 Jun 19 - 02:15 AM
SPB-Cooperator 13 Jun 19 - 04:07 AM
DMcG 13 Jun 19 - 04:15 AM
Iains 13 Jun 19 - 04:35 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jun 19 - 04:39 AM
Iains 13 Jun 19 - 05:22 AM
Nigel Parsons 13 Jun 19 - 05:52 AM
Raggytash 13 Jun 19 - 06:24 AM
Backwoodsman 13 Jun 19 - 06:57 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jun 19 - 08:57 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jun 19 - 10:03 AM
Nigel Parsons 13 Jun 19 - 10:28 AM
MikeL2 13 Jun 19 - 10:29 AM
Raggytash 13 Jun 19 - 10:36 AM
Nigel Parsons 13 Jun 19 - 10:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Jun 19 - 11:00 AM
Raggytash 13 Jun 19 - 11:02 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jun 19 - 11:48 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jun 19 - 05:59 PM
Backwoodsman 14 Jun 19 - 03:23 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jun 19 - 04:39 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Jun 19 - 06:44 AM
Stanron 14 Jun 19 - 06:55 AM
Raggytash 14 Jun 19 - 07:31 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jun 19 - 08:12 AM
Stanron 14 Jun 19 - 08:15 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jun 19 - 10:04 AM
DMcG 14 Jun 19 - 10:58 AM
Stanron 14 Jun 19 - 11:33 AM
Stilly River Sage 14 Jun 19 - 07:43 PM
peteaberdeen 14 Jun 19 - 09:01 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jun 19 - 11:09 AM
Stilly River Sage 15 Jun 19 - 11:39 AM
DMcG 16 Jun 19 - 03:23 AM
DMcG 16 Jun 19 - 04:04 AM
Iains 16 Jun 19 - 04:27 AM
DMcG 16 Jun 19 - 04:34 AM
Iains 16 Jun 19 - 05:44 AM
Iains 17 Jun 19 - 11:24 AM
DMcG 17 Jun 19 - 12:17 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Jun 19 - 02:07 PM
Dave the Gnome 17 Jun 19 - 02:07 PM
DMcG 17 Jun 19 - 02:58 PM
Raggytash 18 Jun 19 - 06:19 AM
Iains 18 Jun 19 - 06:43 AM
Raggytash 18 Jun 19 - 06:56 AM
Backwoodsman 18 Jun 19 - 07:16 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Jun 19 - 07:46 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Jun 19 - 07:47 AM
Dave the Gnome 18 Jun 19 - 12:54 PM
David Carter (UK) 18 Jun 19 - 01:34 PM
Raggytash 18 Jun 19 - 02:45 PM
Iains 18 Jun 19 - 03:20 PM
Stanron 18 Jun 19 - 04:00 PM
Backwoodsman 18 Jun 19 - 04:22 PM
Raggytash 18 Jun 19 - 07:07 PM
Steve Shaw 18 Jun 19 - 07:22 PM
Raggytash 19 Jun 19 - 04:38 PM
DMcG 20 Jun 19 - 01:47 PM
Stanron 20 Jun 19 - 07:26 PM
Nigel Parsons 20 Jun 19 - 08:05 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Jun 19 - 09:21 PM
Dave the Gnome 21 Jun 19 - 06:57 AM
Raggytash 21 Jun 19 - 12:45 PM
DMcG 22 Jun 19 - 02:44 AM
DMcG 24 Jun 19 - 04:51 AM
Steve Shaw 24 Jun 19 - 07:46 AM
Iains 24 Jun 19 - 12:22 PM
DMcG 24 Jun 19 - 01:32 PM
Iains 25 Jun 19 - 03:59 AM
Raggytash 25 Jun 19 - 07:03 AM
DMcG 25 Jun 19 - 12:45 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Jun 19 - 10:23 AM
Iains 26 Jun 19 - 04:22 PM
Raggytash 26 Jun 19 - 04:27 PM
Iains 26 Jun 19 - 05:30 PM
Dave the Gnome 27 Jun 19 - 01:41 AM
Raggytash 27 Jun 19 - 05:14 AM
Iains 27 Jun 19 - 05:48 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Jun 19 - 06:00 AM
Raggytash 27 Jun 19 - 06:11 AM
David Carter (UK) 27 Jun 19 - 07:07 AM
Raggytash 27 Jun 19 - 08:00 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Jun 19 - 08:12 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Jun 19 - 02:04 PM
Iains 27 Jun 19 - 02:25 PM
Dave the Gnome 27 Jun 19 - 02:35 PM
DMcG 27 Jun 19 - 02:40 PM
Raggytash 27 Jun 19 - 04:31 PM
Iains 29 Jun 19 - 02:22 PM
DMcG 30 Jun 19 - 02:19 AM
DMcG 30 Jun 19 - 02:23 AM
David Carter (UK) 30 Jun 19 - 03:57 AM
Raggytash 30 Jun 19 - 04:00 AM
DMcG 30 Jun 19 - 04:25 AM
Backwoodsman 30 Jun 19 - 04:32 AM
Backwoodsman 30 Jun 19 - 04:52 AM
David Carter (UK) 30 Jun 19 - 06:30 AM
Stanron 30 Jun 19 - 06:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 30 Jun 19 - 07:55 AM
DMcG 30 Jun 19 - 07:57 AM
David Carter (UK) 30 Jun 19 - 10:31 AM
Backwoodsman 30 Jun 19 - 11:44 AM
Stanron 30 Jun 19 - 12:10 PM
David Carter (UK) 30 Jun 19 - 12:17 PM
Iains 30 Jun 19 - 01:10 PM
DMcG 30 Jun 19 - 01:43 PM
David Carter (UK) 30 Jun 19 - 02:06 PM
Iains 30 Jun 19 - 04:11 PM
DMcG 30 Jun 19 - 06:05 PM
Steve Shaw 30 Jun 19 - 07:46 PM
David Carter (UK) 01 Jul 19 - 02:37 AM
David Carter (UK) 01 Jul 19 - 02:39 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Jul 19 - 03:04 AM
DMcG 01 Jul 19 - 03:52 AM
DMcG 01 Jul 19 - 03:54 AM
Backwoodsman 01 Jul 19 - 04:25 AM
Iains 01 Jul 19 - 06:10 AM
Raggytash 01 Jul 19 - 06:23 AM
Iains 01 Jul 19 - 07:02 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Jul 19 - 07:07 AM
Raggytash 01 Jul 19 - 07:11 AM
DMcG 01 Jul 19 - 07:26 AM
Iains 01 Jul 19 - 07:33 AM
Raggytash 01 Jul 19 - 07:38 AM
Iains 01 Jul 19 - 08:03 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Jul 19 - 06:26 AM
David Carter (UK) 02 Jul 19 - 07:17 AM
Mossback 02 Jul 19 - 10:26 AM
peteaberdeen 02 Jul 19 - 11:31 AM
David Carter (UK) 02 Jul 19 - 12:28 PM
David Carter (UK) 02 Jul 19 - 12:35 PM
peteaberdeen 04 Jul 19 - 11:27 AM
Iains 04 Jul 19 - 01:18 PM
Raggytash 04 Jul 19 - 01:54 PM
Backwoodsman 04 Jul 19 - 02:00 PM
DMcG 04 Jul 19 - 02:50 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Jul 19 - 04:55 PM
Backwoodsman 04 Jul 19 - 05:13 PM
Iains 04 Jul 19 - 05:35 PM
Monique 05 Jul 19 - 01:34 AM
Dave the Gnome 05 Jul 19 - 01:35 AM
David Carter (UK) 05 Jul 19 - 02:37 AM
DMcG 05 Jul 19 - 03:59 AM
Iains 05 Jul 19 - 04:40 AM
Steve Shaw 05 Jul 19 - 04:49 AM
David Carter (UK) 05 Jul 19 - 04:54 AM
Jim Carroll 05 Jul 19 - 01:12 PM
Backwoodsman 05 Jul 19 - 01:37 PM
Iains 05 Jul 19 - 02:00 PM
Jim Carroll 05 Jul 19 - 03:34 PM
Iains 05 Jul 19 - 04:12 PM
Backwoodsman 05 Jul 19 - 04:56 PM
Iains 05 Jul 19 - 05:32 PM
Backwoodsman 05 Jul 19 - 05:40 PM
Jim Carroll 05 Jul 19 - 08:41 PM
Jim Carroll 05 Jul 19 - 08:41 PM
DMcG 06 Jul 19 - 03:40 AM
Iains 06 Jul 19 - 11:19 AM
DMcG 06 Jul 19 - 12:22 PM
David Carter (UK) 06 Jul 19 - 02:03 PM
Dave the Gnome 06 Jul 19 - 02:24 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Jul 19 - 03:59 AM
Iains 07 Jul 19 - 05:17 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Jul 19 - 05:46 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Jul 19 - 05:54 AM
Iains 07 Jul 19 - 06:24 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Jul 19 - 06:53 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Jul 19 - 07:03 AM
DMcG 07 Jul 19 - 08:06 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Jul 19 - 08:59 AM
DMcG 07 Jul 19 - 10:22 AM
Iains 07 Jul 19 - 10:53 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Jul 19 - 11:20 AM
Iains 07 Jul 19 - 01:05 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Jul 19 - 01:11 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Jul 19 - 02:34 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Jul 19 - 02:35 PM
Nigel Parsons 07 Jul 19 - 06:32 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Jul 19 - 09:03 PM
Backwoodsman 08 Jul 19 - 02:02 AM
DMcG 08 Jul 19 - 02:10 AM
David Carter (UK) 08 Jul 19 - 02:29 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Jul 19 - 03:39 AM
DMcG 08 Jul 19 - 04:05 AM
DMcG 08 Jul 19 - 10:25 AM
David Carter (UK) 08 Jul 19 - 03:12 PM
Nigel Parsons 08 Jul 19 - 03:42 PM
DMcG 09 Jul 19 - 02:26 AM
David Carter (UK) 09 Jul 19 - 03:08 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jul 19 - 03:10 AM
David Carter (UK) 09 Jul 19 - 03:14 AM
Iains 09 Jul 19 - 03:41 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Jul 19 - 03:44 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Jul 19 - 03:46 AM
David Carter (UK) 09 Jul 19 - 04:03 AM
Iains 09 Jul 19 - 04:23 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Jul 19 - 06:06 AM
David Carter (UK) 09 Jul 19 - 06:37 AM
DMcG 09 Jul 19 - 06:49 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Jul 19 - 09:23 AM
Nigel Parsons 09 Jul 19 - 09:31 AM
Nigel Parsons 09 Jul 19 - 09:35 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jul 19 - 09:57 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Jul 19 - 10:45 AM
David Carter (UK) 09 Jul 19 - 10:52 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jul 19 - 11:32 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Jul 19 - 11:38 AM
Iains 09 Jul 19 - 12:00 PM
DMcG 09 Jul 19 - 01:37 PM
David Carter (UK) 09 Jul 19 - 01:50 PM
peteaberdeen 09 Jul 19 - 01:55 PM
Iains 09 Jul 19 - 01:58 PM
DMcG 09 Jul 19 - 02:18 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Jul 19 - 02:56 PM
Iains 09 Jul 19 - 04:19 PM
Nigel Parsons 09 Jul 19 - 07:31 PM
Raggytash 09 Jul 19 - 07:36 PM
Raggytash 09 Jul 19 - 07:54 PM
Nigel Parsons 09 Jul 19 - 08:15 PM
Nigel Parsons 09 Jul 19 - 08:18 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Jul 19 - 08:56 PM
DMcG 10 Jul 19 - 02:20 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Jul 19 - 02:39 AM
Iains 10 Jul 19 - 03:02 AM
Iains 10 Jul 19 - 03:36 AM
Raggytash 10 Jul 19 - 11:42 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Jul 19 - 11:48 AM
Monique 10 Jul 19 - 12:37 PM
Raggytash 10 Jul 19 - 12:49 PM
Nigel Parsons 10 Jul 19 - 12:50 PM
Stanron 10 Jul 19 - 12:55 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Jul 19 - 01:05 PM
Stanron 10 Jul 19 - 01:43 PM
DMcG 10 Jul 19 - 02:11 PM
DMcG 10 Jul 19 - 02:12 PM
David Carter (UK) 10 Jul 19 - 02:18 PM
Iains 10 Jul 19 - 02:20 PM
Raggytash 10 Jul 19 - 02:49 PM
Dave the Gnome 10 Jul 19 - 03:39 PM
Stanron 10 Jul 19 - 03:57 PM
DMcG 10 Jul 19 - 04:03 PM
Backwoodsman 10 Jul 19 - 04:28 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jul 19 - 02:41 AM
Iains 11 Jul 19 - 05:48 AM
Nigel Parsons 11 Jul 19 - 06:22 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jul 19 - 09:20 AM
Iains 11 Jul 19 - 11:18 AM
Iains 11 Jul 19 - 11:57 AM
Nigel Parsons 11 Jul 19 - 12:00 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jul 19 - 12:32 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jul 19 - 12:35 PM
Iains 11 Jul 19 - 01:00 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jul 19 - 01:10 PM
DMcG 11 Jul 19 - 01:22 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jul 19 - 01:39 PM
Iains 11 Jul 19 - 04:15 PM
Nigel Parsons 11 Jul 19 - 04:26 PM
DMcG 11 Jul 19 - 04:39 PM
Iains 11 Jul 19 - 04:43 PM
DMcG 11 Jul 19 - 04:59 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jul 19 - 05:09 PM
Iains 11 Jul 19 - 05:40 PM
DMcG 11 Jul 19 - 05:55 PM
Nigel Parsons 12 Jul 19 - 03:46 AM
DMcG 12 Jul 19 - 04:10 AM
Iains 12 Jul 19 - 04:18 AM
DMcG 12 Jul 19 - 06:56 AM
David Carter (UK) 12 Jul 19 - 08:04 AM
Backwoodsman 13 Jul 19 - 04:36 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Jul 19 - 01:14 PM
DMcG 13 Jul 19 - 01:25 PM
Jim Carroll 13 Jul 19 - 01:34 PM
Nigel Parsons 13 Jul 19 - 01:57 PM
DMcG 13 Jul 19 - 02:18 PM
DMcG 14 Jul 19 - 03:55 AM
Iains 14 Jul 19 - 04:10 AM
David Carter (UK) 14 Jul 19 - 04:32 AM
David Carter (UK) 14 Jul 19 - 04:40 AM
DMcG 14 Jul 19 - 05:08 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Jul 19 - 01:49 PM
Backwoodsman 14 Jul 19 - 04:56 PM
Iains 15 Jul 19 - 09:55 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 19 - 10:05 AM
Iains 15 Jul 19 - 10:49 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 19 - 11:15 AM
DMcG 15 Jul 19 - 12:04 PM
Dave the Gnome 15 Jul 19 - 12:17 PM
Mrrzy 15 Jul 19 - 01:36 PM
Iains 15 Jul 19 - 01:44 PM
Iains 15 Jul 19 - 01:50 PM
Iains 15 Jul 19 - 02:09 PM
David Carter (UK) 15 Jul 19 - 02:57 PM
Raggytash 15 Jul 19 - 03:03 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 19 - 03:09 PM
Iains 15 Jul 19 - 05:14 PM
DMcG 15 Jul 19 - 05:27 PM
Iains 15 Jul 19 - 05:44 PM
Backwoodsman 16 Jul 19 - 02:02 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Jul 19 - 02:46 AM
DMcG 16 Jul 19 - 06:35 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 Jul 19 - 07:17 AM
Iains 16 Jul 19 - 11:21 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Jul 19 - 01:02 PM
DMcG 16 Jul 19 - 01:27 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Jul 19 - 01:37 PM
Iains 16 Jul 19 - 01:40 PM
DMcG 16 Jul 19 - 01:48 PM
Jim Carroll 17 Jul 19 - 02:17 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Jul 19 - 11:11 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Jul 19 - 12:51 PM
Jim Carroll 18 Jul 19 - 10:46 AM
Iains 18 Jul 19 - 12:03 PM
Raggytash 18 Jul 19 - 12:12 PM
Iains 18 Jul 19 - 01:41 PM
DMcG 18 Jul 19 - 01:56 PM
Raggytash 18 Jul 19 - 02:19 PM
peteaberdeen 18 Jul 19 - 02:29 PM
Iains 18 Jul 19 - 02:29 PM
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Subject: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 05:01 AM

The closure of the thread feels like collective punishment. Latterly, most of us have been stridently trying to resist the inanities of the one idiot who has been messing up the thread by sidelining him. Contrary to what the closer of the thread seemed to be claiming, discussion of this topic has far from run its course and things are set to move on dramatically quickly in the next few weeks. It's actually history in the making, no exaggeration, and we should be able to talk about it. Thank you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 05:10 AM

In fairness, most of us have played some part in closing it - some more than others
This will continue to happen until we start to police ourselves and control our own behaviour as well as dealing with the real gluggers

I read this morning that forty-plus Tory MPs have threatened to resign if they (the House of Common members) aren't given the final say on Brexit
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 05:11 AM

Jim, we have been trying to police ourselves in recent days. We can stop him if we try.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 05:14 AM

I feel I must congratulate the mud elf for their public display of good taste in closing the previous thread. Describing one's unsavoury bowel habits in order to make a point is thoroughly distasteful.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 05:50 AM

Thanks for trying, Steve. Alas, I fear the Moderators' Pet will get this thread closed too, judging by his first contribution. UNLESS - everyone completely sidelines him. No responses whatsoever, either direct or indirect, to his provocation.

It's the only way to demonstrate who are, and who are not, the 'bastards' (as the Mods so charmingly describe those who challenge bigotry and provocation) on here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 06:02 AM

"We can stop him if we try."
Can we not make this about him please
While we respond to him we become part of it, as a mod has just pointed out to me - now the Mods have been made fully aware of hat e is, he can't continue as he has for much longer anyway
Ignore him - all of us, if we want this thread (and BS section) to survive

Onward and upward to Brexit - or hopefully to kicking it into touch
I don't agree with you about referendums Steve - they've changed Irish Society for the better and there's no reason they can't do the same for Britain if they are presented properly and not used as Populist maneuvering   
It seems to me that the only answer to the present fiasco is to put the vote to the people again - now the clownish behaviour of the establishment and the revelations as to what leaving Europe will bring will at last give the electorate some idea of what they are voting for rather than the unfulfillable promises that brought about this mess in the first place
It has to be done by open debate, not within the Parliamentary greenhouse - I'd love to see Posh-Boy Moggie face to face with the articulate debater Corbyn seems to be becoming - I know who my money would be on
If, after all this, a majority ('bout time PR was considered for eections) still want to leave there's not much you can do about it
I have little doubt the people will sort it out anyway when things do go radically wrong - with a great deal of added hardship to the have-nots who have to pick up the tab, of course

Parliamentary debate has become little more than meaningless words shouted over a constant noise from a herd of bleating sheep
Let's see the the thing thrashed out openly by articulate people and for Christ's sake, let someone point out the inhumanity of using refugees from wars and poverty Britain has helped and even facilitated, as political pawns
It's about time Britain's situation in all this was dealt with holistically rather than a series of separate issues
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 06:07 AM

Good news about brexit

On balance I think there is more bad than good but in the interests of fairness I think this piece should be included. Even if it is by the co-editor of "The Conservative Woman" :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 06:11 AM

Like Steve, I've been against another referendum (I dislike referendums as a matter of principle - they seem to me to be a cowardly cop-out by the very people we have elected to very well-paid positions of responsibility for making these decisions on our behalf. As the saying goes, you don't keep a dog and bark yourself.

But I'm coming round to thinking that, with May's intransigence, the government's paralysis, and the unwillingness of many MPs to do what they know in their hearts is best for the country as a whole, a 'second referendum' is probably the best route to take.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 06:17 AM

She's deluded.

Nothing to either agree or disagree with me about, Jim. Whilst I am opposed to referendums, because they dress up complex issues as simple binary decisions to be put before an uninformed public, I've said more than once that there may be no other way out of this mess.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 06:29 AM

Parliament are never going to decide anything seriously without putting their own self-interests first, as partied, as individual investors (as many of them are, and as career politicians) - they never have and certainly aren't likely to now
They need to be made answerable to their responsibilities and their promises - until they are, the people need a voice in what happens to their lives and their communities
Five years of promises that will not be honoured is as far from democracy as is Parliamentary dictatorship
On issues of national importance I can't see any alternative other than referenda
Sorry - 'Mary Queen of Scots' calls - see y'all tomorrow
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: KarenH
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 07:25 AM

I am sorry, but for me Jim's conduct has had as much to do with wrecking the thread as anybody else's. If, and I say if, he is feeling proud of having done this, or feels that he has achieved some kind of victory, then I would just like to register a feeling that he is mistaken.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 07:39 AM

Karen, we are actually trying very hard right now to sideline the real villain of the piece. Jim is now onside. If we ignore troll posts and talk about brexit, we may just manage to keep the topic alive. What's done is done. There is genuinely something important to talk about here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 07:53 AM

Karen, I think Jim will be the first to admit that his behaviour has left much to be desired at times. I also think that several of us are working to help Jim refrain from being reactive to the disgraceful provocation - the bile and vitriol, the name-calling, the deliberate attempts (often unfortunately successful) to 'press buttons', aimed at him and, to possibly a lesser extent, to others here - by his Nemesis.

I know that Jim is trying hard to improve his behaviour, as are the others I referred to, by refusing to react or respond to provocation - the only one who, as yet, seems unable to acknowledge his own part in all the trouble on the 'Brexit #2' thread is the aforementioned provocateur, whose single contribution to this thread so far is in precisely the same provocative vein as the vast majority of his posts on the closed thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 08:21 AM

Then let this be about the associated Brexit conundrums instead of searching for the one true villain amoung many.
Brexit has its own HBO movie staring Kumberbatch. Too bad the script writer didn't consult with you folks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 08:59 AM

To get back on track!
'Stop reporting fake news!' BBC forced to apologise for 'editing' Brexiteer Newsnight clip

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1075950/Brexit-news-BBC-Newsnight-UK-Nadine-Dorries-Conservative-Party-latest


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 09:06 AM

Will this government ever do what is right for the country if they know that in doing so it will divide their support at the ballot box?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 09:27 AM

No they won't. The long, sorry history of Toryism in this country is to prioritise looking after their own (the wealthy, the landowners, the landlords, the tycoons and the fast-buck spivs) and to look after the interests of the Tory party. If they change from that, they won't be Tories any more. Unfortunately, at the moment it's hard to see an effective alternative that would be any different. We just have to keep fighting from within, that's all. The first step is to make sure that Corbyn realises that he's wrong to support brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 09:43 AM

They walk among us!

Fresh from telling his constituents that he knows better than them, Labour’s Ipswich MP Sandy Martin has claimed in his ‘weekly column’ that the Prime Minister had met with Corbyn to discuss Brexit options. A meeting she offered but the Labour leader famously refused to accept…


https://order-order.com/2019/01/22/know-better-labour-mp-now-lies-constituents/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 09:58 AM

From The Department Of The Bleedin' Obvious: the EU has confirmed what we knew all along but what the leavers shoved under the carpet: a no-deal brexit would mean a hard border between the Republic and the North. Of course it would. We can't expect to be made a special case. It would be a border between an EU country and a non-EU country. Hard border. Simple.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 10:05 AM

That part of the game...

These nasty Europeans will do what they're told because we are British and if they don't, they are bullying us...

Anyway, these threads go nowhere but I couldn't resist one comment on a third restart.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit#3: a probably futile gesture...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 10:06 AM

Steve, when the thread gets really long a couple of things happen - people veer all over the place topic-wise and it's difficult to moderate those few fighting, spam, or non sequitur posts that need to go. From this side of the pond it sounds like the Brexit conversation has entered another (perhaps even more precarious) stage, and it seemed a good time to start again. Any of you who want to review the 2,815 posts of the Brexit #2 thread are more than welcome to look back. I suspect that unless someone is mining it for old links they posted, it the conversation will simply move on from here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: mayomick
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 10:36 AM

The British government’s insistence on upholding the result of the democratically-convened 2016 Brexit referendum is quite understandable .A quandary arises however because the outcomes of the democratically-held referendums in both the north and south of Ireland backed terms reached in the Good Friday Agreement negotiations that require “avoidance” of a physical border on the island of Ireland.

It’s hard to explain Irish history to British people who don’t want to be constantly reminded about Ireland and their country’s own involvement in Ireland’s history. Some in the UK -and indeed some in Poland whose citizens in the UK feel put at risk by Brexit - think that the Irish are being stubborn at the moment and that the GFA –an international agreement - should be set aside or its wording modified or reinterpreted in order to facilitate Theresa May’s Brexit negotiations .

Britain has said that it will not erect a hard border in Ireland : the EU said this morning that it will build a hard border in the event of a no deal being reached. That‘s the dilemma that Brexit has put EU member Ireland in : if Ireland remains in the EU and no deal has been reached , will it be party to breaking the border-avoidance clause in the Good Friday Agreement ? The GFA was worded using the language of “constructive ambiguity” so as to get most parties on side with the deal -the DUP never supported it . All parties will now be looking for nuances in meaning for the word “avoid” perhaps. But it will be difficult for any Irish government to sign up to a hard border.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 11:03 AM

There is no NEED for any kind of border between the EU and the UK. All our laws and all our regulations and all our tariffs are 100% aligned and identical. The need for a border is an invention of the EU and the reason for this invention is good subject for speculation.

Speculation 1. Based on the fear that other members may be tempted to follow suit and leave, the EU wants to be seen to be punitive towards leavers.

Speculation 2. The EU knows that a significant number, although not majority, of UK citizens do not want to leave. This large minority (actually a majority of MPs) will do their best to prevent Brexit even to the point of damaging the UK. The EU therefor gives as little as possible and asks as much as possible knowing that remainers will attempt to sabotage a successful exit. An example is the remainers insistance that 'No Deal' is taken off the table. No Deal will damage the EU far more that the it will damage the UK. It should be a really good bargaining tool. The remainers do not want us to have such a good bargaining tool. Also of course 'No Deal' actually means leaving. Every bit of any deal we do will tie us to the EU. The softer the Brexit the greater and tighter the ties will be. No deal means we leave and the remainers have lost completely. Bring it on.

Speculation 3. The EU is a psychotic and nonredeemable political experiment that puts an inflexible ideology before the best interests of it's member states and their populations. They would do this wouldn't they?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 11:11 AM

It is possible there WOULD be no need if all our regulations etc were the same for all time. But as our declared intention is to change these, a border or some other scheme will be required to inspect matters arising these differences as soon as they arise. Merely being the same at the moment is not enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 11:19 AM

So Speculation 4 is fear of the future? That's not very healthy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: mayomick
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 11:31 AM

That speculation is possibly right Stanton , the EU was actually very shakey before the UK referendum . Leading Brexiteers knew that and wanted to get out first - steal a march on other member states .EU leaders know that Brexit can only work for the Brexiteers at the expense of other powerful EU countries.If the wrecking operation involved in the EU’s most powerful country quitting the bloc is successful then Britain will come out dominant .So the EU leaders are taking steps to prevent a no-deal situation and keep the UK tied to the bloc. Can you blame them?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 11:45 AM

Another perspective on the Border question:


https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-northern-ireland-backstop-theresa-may-how-brussels-blew-brexit/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 11:51 AM

Speculation 5. The drivers for leaving would love to see a breakdown of the EU so that individual states can aggressively compete with each other; without realising that if that happened the UK would soon find out that, quite rightly, the UK population would be trodden into the ground.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 11:53 AM

the EU has confirmed a no-deal brexit would mean a hard border between the Republic and the North. It would be a border between an EU country and a non-EU country. Hard border. Simple.

"So this hard border.
Are they going to install watch towers with searchlights and machine guns and have barbed wire fences with minefields.
And what is the purpose? To keep people out or keep people in?
Smacks of creeping totalitarianism on the part of the beleaguered Brussels apparatchiks to me."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 12:10 PM

It's hard to explain Irish history to some people


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 12:33 PM

No, Stanron, it is not fear of the future. You need a border of some form to accomodate a difference. That is as true in politics as it is in physics, chemistry and biology, or in social structures like entrance exams. Borders are associated with difference: no difference, no border. A difference, some sort of border. Fear does not come into in the slightest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 12:41 PM

Stanron says, still, despite overwhelming evidence and opinion to the contrary:

"No Deal will damage the EU far more that the it will damage the UK"

And extraordinary statement, which can only be made by someone really quite deluded.

A no deal brexit will reduce UK GDP by of order 10%, and EU GDP by 2-3%.
For the EU its a hiccup. For the UK a catastrophe. The 2008 recession was 6-7% reduction. Only the depression of the 1920s was worse.

So thats what Stanron wishes to "bring on". Economic conditions not quite as bad as the Great Depression. But significantly worse than any we have experienced in our lifetimes (apologies for any one reading who remembers the 1920s).


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 01:09 PM

despite overwhelming evidence and opinion to the contrary.
Evidence? Where is this muythical beastie?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 01:38 PM

Rupert Murdoch was once asked why he hated the EU so much. ‘That’s easy,’ he replied.’When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.’.
Jim, by using sky box you are financially contributing to rupert murdoch and brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 03:11 PM

We heard you first time, Dick. Thing is, if you made a crusade out of boycotting any company or organisation that supports brexit, or has directors or CEOs who support brexit, well frankly you wouldn't be able to live your life. Anyway, Dick, I pay five quid a month for Sky Sports Mobile so that I can watch Liverpool in the Premier League and I'm buggered if I'm giving it up. I'd sooner hack off my meat and two veg with a rusty machete, frankly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 03:29 PM

A couple of things. First, the EU contains nearly half a billion people, about seven or eight times our population, so it's arrant nonsense to suggest that the EU will somehow come off worse. Second, the EU is not blocking anything. We started this and the EU has to stick to its own rules. It's actually playing a very straight bat. We are the bad boy who can't expect special treatment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 03:32 PM

No deal could cause a spike in adultery!!!!

From guido! It must be right.


https://order-order.com/2019/01/22/project-fling-no-deal-cause-35-spike-adultery/#disqus_thread


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 04:03 PM

The road to hell is paved with good? intentions.
The european dream is having a few hiccups.


https://www.rt.com/news/449388-macron-king-executives-execute-reforms/

Note what happened 226 years ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 04:24 PM

NO STEVE I disagree if i owned a television which i used to i made a conscious decision not to support sky or murdoch. i run a festival www.maritime.com i discovered when i paid my radio advertising bill that county sound was now opwned by rupert murdoch so i will not advertisec with them again, that is about having principles. Steve and jim you bang on about brexit but you have no right to because you are financially supporting murdoch, Steve, its more important to you to watch a football match shown by sky than to not give money to murdoch , absolutely pathetic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: bobad
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 04:49 PM

Brexit solution?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 04:49 PM

Another thread killer Steve.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 05:06 PM

I told you, Dick, you can't run your life that way. I buy stuff from Asda, Amazon, Morrisons, Lidl, Aldi, M&S, Vodafone, BT, Apple, Microsoft, Coopers of Stortford, Specsavers, Tesco, eBay, Ford, Mazda, CPL, Mole Valley Farmers, NFU, Rangemoors at Winkleigh, Waitrose, John Lewis, Costa, Caffé Nero, Lakeland, Woolacotts, Spar, the Esso garage in Bude, Sainsbury's, Trago Mills, Donald Russell, Gloucester Services, the local butcher and the local fishmonger. Within many of those emporia I buy stuff made by Heinz, Colmans, Hellmans, the local dairy, Napolina, Roddas, Trewithen, Kraft, Cadburys, Nestlé, Weetabix, Kellogg's, Yeo Valley, Fairy, Kenwood, Delonghi, Duracell, Energiser, Rowntree, Green and Blacks, Davidstow creamery, Canon, Panasonic, Philips. And that's the tip of the iceberg. I'm not about to delve into the gargantuan task of finding out what all their brexit stances are or who's running all their shows who might be brexiteers. You can if you want to. I decided that I have to breathe at least some polluted air.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 05:31 PM

I will not support Murdoch, a man who played a major part in encouraging brexit and a man who played a part inn organised violence at Wapping, and you support him just so that you can watch football pathetic


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 05:48 PM

Bye, Dick!

Just a feeling I'm getting, but it looks like the impetus for a people's vote is subsiding a bit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 06:13 PM

Whilst I can agree with your sentiment Dick, I do not have the time to trawl through the accounts of every company I have to deal with.

I do not have a Sky package so I go to the pub to watch most sport. (I do have freesat)

Are you suggesting that I should not go the the pub because the pub pays for a Sky package?

As Steve has already suggested most major companys we have to purchase from (there being little, if any alternative) probably have some very dubious practises.

Short of sitting in the kitchen, in the dark and scratching my arse I have little alternative.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 06:58 PM

Wonderful.

James Dyson who has consistently supported Brexit has now announced he is moving the HQ of the company to Singapore.

P&O Ferries are to re-register all their ships to a Cypriot flag, Sony is moving it's European HQ to Amsterdam, away from London.

I feel sure that more and more companies will leave the sinking ship in the next few weeks.

Isn't Brexit ******* marvellous !!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 12:14 AM

So does the exit agreement include powers to charge corporation tax to Singapore and Netherlands registered companies?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 02:55 AM

I think that I’ll vote for Brexit
Though none of my posh friends expects it
I am fairly sure-oh
I’m not at all Euro
But then again Life’s what you meks it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 04:15 AM

A glimpse of sanity!



https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/--899440.html

Bobad. Love your cartoon! but I cannot entirely agree with the sentiment expressed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 04:17 AM

We need to keep the impetus going then Steve. No deal brexit cannot be allowed to happen, by keeping it on the table May is holding a gun to the head of the British economy. And the British people. George Osbourne was right about this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 04:20 AM

Far-right groups could exploit Brexit tensions

Why does this not surprise me one bit? It was interesting to note the following statement that some on here have been denying.

Asked about the background of Brexit, Mr Basu told the BBC: "We saw a spike in hate crime after the referendum, that's never really receded.

So there's always a possibility people are being radicalised by the kind of febrile atmosphere we've got at the moment."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 04:31 AM

Never thought I'd see the day when I agree with Gideon about anything but, on this occasion, he's absolutely right on the button.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 04:50 AM

Asked about the background of Brexit, Mr Basu told the BBC:

there was no intelligence pointing to an increased level of attacks after Brexit, but added: "What's most concerning me... is its potential to divide communities and set communities against each other."

But the loopy left also poses a threat!
Britain’s most dangerous export: Corbynism. From Europe's premium policy intelligence service

https://www.politico.eu/article/jeremy-corbyn-left-uk-europe-britains-most-dangerous-export-corbynism/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 05:09 AM

Tory MP asks for help from Poland

What a twerp.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 07:07 AM

Just in case anyone is wondering why a leading BrexShiteer would move his business to Singapore...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 07:10 AM

....should have said, "A leading BrexShiteer who preaches Patriotism to the rest of us". Like charity, Patriotism should begin at home.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 08:06 AM

Here's another idea - require all people who are paid to enter national public services (ie MPs, MEPs) to publish their tax returns for all countries in which they declare income for the rest of tier lives, with a 7 figure penalty for failing to do so, doubling each year. Although this would be an imposition for the majority of MPs, MEPs, it would show who does have their nose in the trough benefiting from the disarray caused by leaving.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 08:28 AM

Some more spiffing news about brexit!

The Remoaners at the ‘Fair Vote Project’ have suffered a humiliating legal defeat in the High Court in their attempts to force the Government to hold a “Mueller-style inquiry” into the EU referendum. The ‘Fair Vote Project’ was essentially set up as a front group for the so-called Brexit whistleblowers with the backing of the cranks at Byline and ultra-Remainers Best for Britain – the sole director, Kyle Taylor, was previously Field Campaigns Director for Best for Britain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 09:25 AM

Arts Council factsheet on the effect of Brexit on the arts in the UK.

You're fucked.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 10:10 AM

I can’t see any reason why all tax returns aren't publicly accessible, the same way the details of wills are, and the prices at which houses have been sold.
..............................

Those like Theresa May who go on endlessly blaring out about how a fresh referendum would be an affront to democracy and will cause social disruption are in fact acting in a way that must encourage such disruption, by providing justification for it. I rather think that is intentional, pulling in the threat of the mob to intimidate opponents.

Other countries which compare very favourably indeed to the UK when it comes to democratic practices, and a commitment to democratic principles have had second referendum on related issues about the E.U. In the case of Denmark and Ireland the public voted the other way next time, in the case of Norway, they confirmed their decision not to join the EU.

Nobody knows what the majority view in the UK is now. If we think that matters, a referendum at least provides a mechanism for finding that out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 10:43 AM

After exploring the links within links in Jack's post below...
All you folks will probably be referred to 150 different websites to stay abreast of the new rules and the conflicting rules that you will still be subject to.

Better keep your smart phones charged if you even want to travel or buy bread and water.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 10:50 AM

I'm encouraged to see the self control shown so far in this thread. It's quite easy really, isn't it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 10:58 AM

Now you've been and went and gone and done it! :-) :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 11:06 AM

Gentlemen! gentlemen! -- and everyone else as well --

it's hugely entertaining for a USA ignoramus like me
to watch you working through all of this.

I was unaware that anyone had called some of you 'bastards.'
Not even Max, to my knowledge, called you that,
and at one point he was genuinely upset with you.

The phrase I heard from a moderator was
"sour testosterone."
Hmmm ... wonder if a UK moderator would make a difference?

Okay, I'll go back to keeping my head down, and listening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 12:08 PM

keberoxu. Hilarious. More posts please!

Meanwhile back at the ranch:

Interesting polling by Number Cruncher Politics which asked voters to choose their least acceptable Brexit outcomes rather than just their favourites. The study reveals that remaining in the EU is the least acceptable Brexit outcome to the British electorate,

Another wily ruse is to suspend Parliament. That'll fix em!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 12:26 PM

Some of us were called bastards in a private message from a moderator to one of us. Just to clear that one up. It wasn't that anyone took offence, but it did appear to betray certain arguably inappropriate allegiances. Please don't ask for any more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 12:50 PM

Apparently Rees-Mogg has said it would be "a constitutional outrage" if the moves by Cooper et al end up with Parliament deciding it should block Brexit. To prevent this he raises the idea of proroguing Parliament if that outcome appears likely.

The whole rationale of Parliament is to agree on solution to problems like our current mess. If it looks likely to do so and then action is taken to shut it down to prevent it doing do - well, I know which looks a bigger constitutional outrage to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 01:02 PM

I'm not sure if it's different across the Atlantic, but here "bastards" isn't really particularly strong. Stronger than buggers. - but that's more or less equivalent to "bloke".


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 01:26 PM

"Stronger than buggers. - but that's more or less equivalent to "bloke""
Suggest you look in your PM box Mac
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 01:55 PM

Some of us were called bastards in a private message from a moderator to one of us. Just to clear that one up. It wasn't that anyone took offence, but it did appear to betray certain arguably inappropriate allegiances.
pack it in shaw. you are gettingh boring.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 02:07 PM

that would be a great advertising line

Fishermans Friends....not strong as fuck! But stronger than buggers!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 02:13 PM

Big Al,
I shudder to think
what the Mudcat would be like, without you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 02:40 PM

If we were in Oz I suppose we'd have taken it as a backslapping term of endearment, as in "G'day, how's it all going, you old bastard!" Let's move on...

I note with amusement the lack of irony in May's claim that a second referendum would threaten social cohesion. Yeah, right, Treez, like the wrecking of social cohesion caused by your pointless ten years' austerity, your permanent Tory us-and-them syndrome, your million on zero-hours, your all-in-it-together lie of the century, your hostile environment, Windrush, Grenfell, your foodbanks... You ain't seen nuffink yet, Treez, things such as the loss of social cohesion that would result from millions thrown out of work by brexit or by the hard border that you're courting with by refusing to take no-deal off the table. A second referendum, in contrast to all that, would be a thoroughly democratic move. I'm not sure that I think it's the right answer to all this, but then democracy should never simply be in the hands of those who think it might turn against them. Should it, brexiteers?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 02:57 PM

Old cricket joke.

Which one of you bastards called this bastard a bastard?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 03:30 PM

Hey, Dave, that was no joke - it really happened! It was in the "Bodyline" Ashes series of 1932. The England captain was Douglas Jardine, the architect of the bodyline bowling strategy. In other words the biggest bastard among bastards* ever to disgrace a cricket field. He went to the Aussie dressing room to complain that one of the Aussie team had called him a bastard. Vic Richardson, the Aussie vice-captain, turned to his teammates in the room and said: "OK, which of you bastards called this bastard a bastard?"

*Unless Jacob Rees-Mogg has ever played cricket...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 03:30 PM

Could everyone stick to the subject of the thread please, and ignore attempts to divert attention to other topics, and provoke a reaction to them?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 03:32 PM

I saw a photo of the Queen and Theresa May today. It was obviously taken at one of the weekly audiences, and some wag had put a speech bubble above the queen's head saying, "Well, you've made a terrible mess of it all haven't you? Would you like me to get Philip to drive you home?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jos
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 04:15 PM

It was in a link in this thread, Eliza, posted by Bobad early on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 04:22 PM

Gah! So it was! I get more senile every day! Sorry about that Bobad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 05:39 PM

Just received a copy of "Wetherspoons news" in my letterbox. Packed full of stuff about how wonderful a no deal Brexit will be. The owner of Wetherspoons is really obsessed with Brexit - branching out from just plugging it in the pubs.

I've got a friend who's sworn off going to Wetherspoons, and is a bit shocked I won't. But I can't see boycotting makes much sense in this case.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 07:50 PM

Surely the Tory definition of cohesion is everybody consenting without question to their subjugation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 08:35 PM

Since my posts are educational and everybody loves them, I'm going to repeat my post to Mudcat Brexit 2 which was the last post before shutdown:

There's a pretty good National Public Radio Program called On the Media. Saturday I heard their presentation: "Why Brexit Shouldn't Have Been a Surprise"

It was good, particularly in explaining UK business to American ears. I especially appreciated the commentary by Matthew Goodwin, professor of politics and international relations at the University of Kent and author of National Populism: The Revolt Against Liberal Democracy. He had a strong opinion that another referendum would be a bad idea.

I'm not so sure. It might not be a good idea, but it might be the best way out of the morass if it leads to a path forward.

There's a lot of reasons Democracy ain't lookin' so hot these days, but I'll argue considerably that nothing very much looks very good these days, and Democracy is still the best thing out there, compared to all the others, the kleptocracy that is modern Russia, the abject failure of whatever Venezuela called its shoddy form of government, the poor democractic selections on the part of the voters of the Philippines, Hungary, Poland, and Turkey. The digital/capitalist oligarchy/dictatorship running China, and the religiously intolerant regimes in India and Burma(Myanmar).

For relaxation I've been reading the Wikipedia entry on The European Union and the early reading part of it is so idealistic, harking back to days when Victor Hugo in previous centry and later Winston Churchill called for a "United States of Europe". Less relaxing is the recent Brexit movie full of current day fakenews digital realpolitick (although Benedict Cumberbatch is a national treasure).


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 09:10 PM

Well in my opinion the European Union is, among major political and economic blocs, almost the last bastion of democracy on the planet. Up to a couple of years ago, I might have wanted to include the US in that, but no longer. It's true that the EU endures a democratic deficit: members of its parliament are elected by tiny turnouts, a very bad thing, and EU laws and regulations are instigated by an unelected commission. However, contrary to the claims of its critics, no law or regulation may be adopted without the consent of the 28 nations and their elected representatives, and the general ethos is that regulations are adopted by common consent rather than divisive voting, and there are various levels of veto available, especially to larger nations such as the UK. If you look at individual nations that are held up to be great examples of democracy you'll find democratic deficits just as serious. You only have to look at the behaviour of Theresa May, with her serial efforts to sideline Parliament over the last two years or more, if you want a shining example of that.

We weaken and undermine the EU, for all its shortcomings, at our peril. Its destruction would leave a world without any major democratic blocs. To put it more scarily, it would leave us with Trump's America, Putin's Russia, a lifetime dictator in China, a whole host of despotic regimes in the Middle East and the ascendancy of the far right here, there and everywhere. That isn't a world I want for myself, my kids and my grandchild, thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 11:15 PM

I always thought the Commonwealth countries were more loyal and reliable allies than anyone looking east.

That's one of the reasons I voted against going into the EEC in '74.

Still if that's how you feel Steve, fair enough. Its all down to gut feeling, and that's why a lot of this arguing is futile.

Doubly futile, cos no one gives a shit what we think or what we vote for. The bosses will get away with whatever serves their interests best. And that's anyone's guess.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 01:46 AM

"Well in my opinion the European Union is, among major political and economic blocs, almost the last bastion of democracy on the planet. Up to a couple of years ago, I might have wanted to include the US in that, but no longer. It's true that the EU endures a democratic deficit: members of its parliament are elected by tiny turnouts, a very bad thing, and EU laws and regulations are instigated by an unelected commission. However, contrary to the claims of its critics, no law or regulation may be adopted without the consent of the 28 nations and their elected representatives, and the general ethos is that regulations are adopted by common consent rather than divisive voting, and there are various levels of veto available, especially to larger nations such as the UK. If you look at individual nations that are held up to be great examples of democracy you'll find democratic deficits just as serious. You only have to look at the behaviour of Theresa May, with her serial efforts to sideline Parliament over the last two years or more, if you want a shining example of that.

We weaken and undermine the EU, for all its shortcomings, at our peril. Its destruction would leave a world without any major democratic blocs. To put it more scarily, it would leave us with Trump's America, Putin's Russia, a lifetime dictator in China, a whole host of despotic regimes in the Middle East and the ascendancy of the far right here, there and everywhere. That isn't a world I want for myself, my kids and my grandchild, thanks."


I second all of that, Steve.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 01:55 AM

I wrote a long spiel but decided I was getting carried away. It boils to if we want to be able to regulate the multinationals, whether physical or the likes of Google, nation-states are too weak. It needs groupings like the EU to stand a chance - and not an especially good chance at that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 02:43 AM

"I wrote a long spiel but decided I was getting carried away"
Pity - soundbites no longer sum up this catastrophe
pent some time yesterday enquiring about becoming an Irish national as the monster that is Brexit is threatening to lose us some of the privileges of living here if little England goes it alone
Some people really seem not to have got their head around the effect on other countries - never a high priority of the British establishment
We already have signs of a return to violence (from both sides)
NICELY SUMMED UP HERE
In the North and counties like Donegal are benefiting from the misfortuns of the Sic Counties - great for Donegal - not so great for relationships and peace
It seems that predictions of the break-up the UK is now becoming a reality
I've always welcomed the idea of a United Ireland, but not this way - please

"Wetherspoons"
Stopped drinking their piss when they stopped serving Travellers
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 03:16 AM

It was one pub in North London, Jim. Tarring the whole chain because of the actions of one manager, who has now been "re-educated", is akin to, well, tarring a whole group of people with the actions of a few :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 03:45 AM

Since i was obliged to be 'on the wagon' in 2005, pubs are of zero interest to me other than as sources of nourishment and opportunities to belt a few tunes and songs out.

But when I did indulge in alcohol, there was (still is) a lovely, welcoming, and well-patronised little pub round the corner from our local Wetherspoons, which specialises in traditional ales and beers - mostly from small, independent breweries, properly kept by a skilled and knowledgeable owner, and served properly by the owner and his experienced staff. Why on earth would I want to go to a soulless chain-owned barn selling crap beer, where they need bouncers on the door to keep an eye on the hordes of young people who go there to guzzle lager and shout at one another?

And if I want food, instead of Wetherspoons' microwave shite, I go to one of several locally-owned cafés or restaurants and have real food, properly cooked and presented in nice surroundings.

As far as I'm concerned, that dick can take his crappy Wetherspoons and shove it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 03:48 AM

"who has now been "re-educated""
Fined, you mean
It was a joke Dave - never really liked Weatherspoons anyway - the nearest to us in London was right opposite Young's Brewery - the finest in the world until progress (pronounced "PISS") drove it out of business
Sorry lads - mustn't interrupt the flow - quite an apt phrase, don'cha think
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 04:11 AM

I think with a company fine of £24,000 the manager was probably 're-educated' right out of the door :-) I

I must go in different Weatherspoons. All the ones I have been in have been fine with a good range of beer and food. But, yes, nowt to do with Brexit really so I shall leave it at that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 04:34 AM

Dyson moving HQ to Singapore.

To put that in some kind of perspective: (from June 2016)

https://janetteheffernan.blogspot.com/2016/06/brexit-list-of-uk-companies-no-longer.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 05:48 AM

"It boils to if we want to be able to regulate the multinationals, whether physical or the likes of Google, nation-states are too weak. It needs groupings like the EU to stand a chance - and not an especially good chance at that."

Excellent point, DMcG. If we allow unelected mega-companies to rule the roost (as well as unelected, powerful lobby groups) we can kiss democracy goodbye, and individual little countries, far from wanting to regulate the corporations, will bend over backwards to cut their tax liabilities to get them in. Not saying that the EU can make much of a fist of it, as you say...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 06:44 AM

The only reason multinationals behave as they do is because inadequate legislation allows it. The first duty of a company is to look after the shareholders, i.e.maximize profit. Morality,charity and national allegiance is no part of the equation. Others explain it thus:
"Contrary to widespread belief, corporate directors are generally not under any legal obligation to maximise profits for their shareholders. Where directors pursue the latter goal, it is usually a product not of legal obligation but rather of the pressures imposed on them by financial markets, activist shareholders, the threat of a hostile takeover and/or stock-based compensation schemes."

https://www.npr.org/2014/07/28/335288388/when-did-companies-become-people-excavating-the-legal-evolution

https://www.law.ox.ac.uk/business-law-blog/blog/2016/11/modern-corporation-statement-company-law

I am sure it requires no explanation as to why a company may up sticks and relocate to a lower cost base, or a more amenable legislatory environment. It goes without saying that many eastern europeans welcomed the employment opportunities that came there way as a result of the above.
As I demonstrated in a previous link it is EU largesse that encouraged many relocations. To state that the poacher also becomes the gamekeeper seems a particularly bizarre socialist solution that inevitably will crash and burn.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 06:49 AM

"Brittany Ferries have moved to slap down Remainer scaremongering about international travel beyond March, and reassure passenmgers. The iconic ferry company accused the BBC of peddling “nonsense” and reassured potential passengers that they can book beyond March.

    “The company would like to make clear that passengers can book crossings to France and Spain, and sail-and-stay holidays as normal. There is absolutely no truth in speculation that passengers are being advised not to book because all space has been allocated to freight.

    The reality is that Brittany Ferries has added 19 crossings on three of its nine routes leaving the UK. The additional sailings create more space for freight, as requested by the DfT. As a consequence, there is now more choice for passengers rather than less.”

Maybe it’s time for the BBC to start listening to the experts?"
(From Guido, of course!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 07:13 AM

Well the free movement of capital was largely welcomed, as I remember. It was a necessary adjunct to living in the EEC.

It must be a big temptation to rich people not pay any tax though, wouldn't you think.

I'm not really sure you will eventually sustain a stable society though, if no one invests in anything except real estate.

Anyway - I guess you smart guys have got it all sorted out. You all seem so certain that you are right.

I just wonder why there never seems any room in your minds for doubt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 07:50 AM


The only reason multinationals behave as they do is because inadequate legislation allows it.


Perhaps, but that raises the question of what is inadequate and why is it inadequate. From a business point of view, a law is not so much a question of "do/don't do this or suffer the penalty" so much as "if we do it and incur the penalty, do we still make a profit?" As example of that was Sunday trading - a number of the big supermarkets openly flouted the law because they thought that the most profitable in the long run. (I am not taking about whether Sunday trading is or is not a good thing - just how companies will ignore the law if the cost-benefit suits them)

Part of the reason they could do this was that they could cross-subsidize penalties from profits on other days, and in the end the law was changed to allow them to trade very much as they wished.

My claim is that any national law will be inadequate - either the company will ignore the law(*) if it is profitable to do so, or they will decide it is not worth trading in a country whose laws make it non-profitable. The only way to overcome this is to the set laws at a higher level than a national law, and have mechanisms that allow the countries in such alliances to reach agreements with each other that can be enforced.

(*) Because even the boards of companies are people, there are still laws they will abide by with little questioning, of course. But the principle that laws are treated as cost-benefit analyses than instructions is, I believe, a consequence of the stuff Iains was saying.

-----

Big Al: I, for one, do not think I have everything worked out - it is all a work-in-progress from my point of view. I have said before, and repeat again here, I would love to be completely wrong about the consequences of Brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: bobad
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 08:03 AM

I just wonder why there never seems any room in your minds for doubt.

The minds of ideologues countenance no doubt, see religious fundamentalists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 08:24 AM

It is not a question of being right or wrong, or even ideology. It is more a study of the facts and their rational interpretation. All other factors being equal a company/corporation/organisation will locate where cost/benefit dictates. A case in point: Ireland
"Ireland was placed 11th out of 82 countries as one of the most attractive business locations in the world in the Economist Intelligence Unit’s (EIU) Business Environment Ranking for 2008-2012.

Experts say that Ireland is attractive because it has one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the world at 12.5 per cent"

https://www.eolasmagazine.ie/what-attracts-companies-to-ireland/

First they say this:https://ec.europa.eu/ireland/tags/corporate-tax_en

Then they sat this:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/european-commission-in-fresh-warning-on-irish-corporation-tax-base-1.3690699
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/ireland-needs-to-upset-the-apple-cart-on-corporate-tax-1.3674289

So much for member state fiscal independence!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 08:49 AM

From: Big Al Whittle - PM
Date: 23 Jan 19 - 11:15 PM

I always thought the Commonwealth countries were more loyal and reliable allies than anyone looking east.

That's one of the reasons I voted against going into the EEC in '74.

Still if that's how you feel Steve, fair enough. Its all down to gut feeling, and that's why a lot of this arguing is futile.

Doubly futile, cos no one gives a shit what we think or what we vote for. The bosses will get away with whatever serves their interests best. And that's anyone's guess.
A sensible post at last


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 09:36 AM

"The EU’s long-running duplicity over the Irish border has finally come to a head this week with the Commission wrapping itself up in knots trying to maintain its spurious position on the backstop. After Commission Spokesman Margaritas Schinas caused a major fuss on Tuesday by saying that the EU would force Ireland to erect a hard border in the event of no deal, Michel Barnier let the cat out of the bag yesterday while trying to reverse the diplomatic damage, admitting that in the event of no deal “we will have to find an operational way of carrying out checks and controls without putting back in place a border”, going on to say that “my team have worked hard to study how controls can be made paperless or decentralised, which will be useful in all circumstances.” Thus blowing apart the entire fiction that the backstop is necessary to avoid a hard border…

The Telegraph’s James Crisp grilled Schinas on this very point today, who ended up so flustered by the question that he eventually snapped back: “write what you like”. The sham of needing the backstop to avoid a hard border is finally starting to unravel in Brussels. Time the sycophantic British media and political establishment woke up too…"


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 09:41 AM

Because a number of factors affect choices of where corporations locate, there comes a tipping point which fianally determine these decisions as it is not a simple as moving to the office next door, and it seems that a lot of tipping points have been reached in the last few months as no business is going to base strategic decisions on what may or may not happen and quite rightly up sticks to where there is more certainty about the future.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 09:48 AM

When you use a phrase like 'long running duplicity' Iains, its a sort of claim for moral high ground.

isn't this why Mo Mowlem succeded where the Thatcherites failed in NI?

Thatcher categorised her enemies as criminals. Mowlem tried to treat the separate parties at their own assessment of themselves - as men of honour.

I think until all sides grasp this basic tennet of diplomacy, the news is going to be kind of predictable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: MikeL2
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 10:01 AM

Hi Al

Beautifully put. " Anyway - I guess you smart guys have got it all sorted out. You all seem so certain that you are right.

I just wonder why there never seems any room in your minds for doubt. "


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 10:10 AM

Big Al the EU has used the Irish border as a means to bully the brexit negotiations from day one. The EU picked on the border because they knew that making an issue of it could possibly inflame old wounds.Calling their behaviour duplicitous is a very mild rebuke.It is nor moral high ground.It is a simple statement of fact. To choose the one single item that could cause dissent,and to belabour it constantly indicates to me the weakness of their position. Making the border a stumbling block will hurt the Republic far far harder than the UK, as many realists acknowledge. A shame the political class are not as clued up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 10:20 AM

If the EU wanted to bully the UK it could do so much more effectively. The EU has in fact shown amazing forbearance, given the self-entitled, intransigent, an at times demented behaviour of the UK government and the far right of the Conservative party who seem to have May in their pockets. The EU is aware that there are decent British people, but sad that they are not the ones coming to Brussels on behalf of the government. So they are trying to soften the outcome for the British people.

If they wanted to bully the British people they would cut off food and energy supplies, and close their waters and airspace to anything heading for Britain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 10:23 AM

A little old but fell by the wayside because of squawking abbot.
Question time and the roar of applause:


https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/01/the-cheer-on-question-time-that-will-terrify-corbyns-labour/


and for light relief: Steptoe seniors theme song


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLRjFWDGs1g


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 10:38 AM

If Brussels oaid for my air fare and accommodation eytc I would talk to them tomorrow, and come up with a deal that follows the letter of the referendum result, ie withdrawal of the UK government and UK MEPs from the democratic decision making process, nothing else. My agreement would guarantee UK would follow the rules of the single market and customs union (while enjoying the benefits) until a further referendum held in the UK dictates otherwise. I would ensure that disadvantaged people in the UK continue to benefit from structural funding. I would also guarantee that UK legislation would follow or exceed expectations of EU cohension, social, international aid, environmental policies etc.I would have a no-strings re-entry agreement if at some time in the future UK decoides that it wants a say on the policies it has to follow after all. The negotiations wouldn't be about winning and losing, but what is in the best interest of UK and EU27 citizens. Unfortunately EU do not want to talk to decent intellegent people, but to self-serving idiots like May, Davis, Raab etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 11:30 AM

'If they wanted to bully the British people they would cut off food and energy supplies, and close their waters and airspace to anything heading for Britain.'

Well maybe they should. my parents lived through a time when they did just that.

You can't help thinking maybe people ought to understand that there's a price to be paid for being dependent on the good offices of your neighbours.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 11:36 AM



And that was one of the main reasons the EU was formed. And we've had peace in Europe ever since, allies with our former enemies.

What was it you were saying about "I wonder why there's never any room in your minds for doubt"? Well it cuts both ways, and that's exactly what we wonder about you Brexiteers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 11:38 AM

"Well maybe they should. My parents lived through a time when they did just that"

And that was one of the main reasons the EU was formed. And we've had peace in Europe ever since, allies with our former enemies.

What was it you were saying about "I wonder why there's never any room in your minds for doubt"? Well it cuts both ways, and that's exactly what we wonder about you Brexiteers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 12:07 PM

"Well maybe they should. My parents lived through a time when they did just that"

Well, yes, but with a near 100% agreement on the enemy, and doing so to resist what an enemy was attempting to achieve. That is somewhat different to the situation where some-48% of the population think it is being inflicted on them by the other some-52% against all their best interests...


You can't help thinking maybe people ought to understand that there's a price to be paid for being dependent on the good offices of your neighbours.


And there is a price to be paid if you generate ill-will in your neighbours.   It will not make trade deals easier to arrange if the UK appears to be incoherent.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 12:09 PM

I do wish some people would stop fighting Againcourt all over again
The EU is a gathering of capitalist nations working together to make the best of a dying society - no great future, but a better one than that based on the Xenophobic isolationism that is Brexit
I'm curious Al, given the likely outcome, what practical advantages do you see in leaving Europe ?
HOPE YOU WEREN'T PLANNING ANY FOREIGN GIGS
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 12:50 PM

How far the border question hurts the UK will probably depend on just how violent some Irish people choose to get if they don't like the outcome. I remember various bombings in England from my younger days.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 12:54 PM

If they wanted to bully the British people they would cut off food and energy supplies, and close their waters and airspace to anything heading for Britain.
Electricity imports fromFrance and the netherlands equals 1% of UK fuel imports
Oil(entrepôt product) from Netherlands 10% mainly refined as a result of closure of Milford Haven and Coryton refineries.
Coal less than 10% from EU
Gas 7% from EU


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 01:01 PM

Food was the first item in that list.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 02:10 PM

So how does the gas get to the UK?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 02:16 PM

mainly Norway and shipped from quatar and still some from the north sea


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 02:18 PM

Try Qatar. I should know how to spell, i have been there enough times geosteering for said gas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 02:51 PM

I'm not sure how forest-for-the-trees we are getting. There are certainly many many interstitial items that fall out when this frictional divorce is underway. There is no way to see how the little pieces help or hurt.

The big hurt is the forced lack of connection in a very connected world.

European Union as noted in the Wikipedia article I referenced above is on the verge of being a Superpower. This is good in an age with another verging power, China, an errant Superpower, the US, and a would be power that is a big fat troublemaker, Russia, and who knows where India's going.

The other thing I can't get out of my mind is the not-so-secret but everywhere power that was brought to the EU by English itself. How could the UK give up its continued quiet conquest of the world by its very language? I know I know that there are other languages in the UK, but the Celtic contribution and occasional dominance in the UK has been through facility in the Engllish language. The United States is probably composed of 80% of people descended from non-English speakers, Canada somewhat less, but English is one of the world glues and a powerful advantage. Taking this away from the EU is a travesty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 03:02 PM

"How far the border question hurts the UK will probably depend on just how violent some Irish people choose to get if they don't like the outcome"
I do wish people wouldn't do this - the problem is the unnatural and enforced border, not the Irishmen
Think the Home Bounties being partitioned off from the rest of Britain - that should give a feel of what things are about here
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 03:12 PM

Approx 36% of energy used in the UK is imported.

Source UK Energy in Brief 2018, assetspublishingservice.gov.uk


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jos
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 03:45 PM

"Think the Home Bounties [I take it the 'B' another of your jokes] being partitioned off from the rest of Britain"

Where I live, the vote was more than 60% for remain - maybe we can be partitioned off and stay in the EU?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 03:59 PM

"...when they did just that"

"They" evidently being a word for all our fellow Europeans, to be identified with the Nazi regime in Germany.

I imagine we're going to get a lot of that if we are lumbered with a no deal exit. The people responsible will do their utmost to divert the blame for the unpleasant consequences from themselves on to those nasty foreigners.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 04:26 PM

The European Economic Community (EEC) was a regional organisation which aimed to bring about economic integration among its member states. It was created by the Treaty of Rome of 1957.[2] Upon the formation of the European Union (EU) in 1993, the EEC was incorporated and renamed as the European Community (EC). In 2009 the EC's institutions were absorbed into the EU's wider framework and the community ceased to exist.

The Community's initial aim was to bring about economic integration, including a common market and customs union, among its six founding members: Belgium, France, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands and West Germany. It gained a common set of institutions along with the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) and the European Atomic Energy Community (EURATOM) as one of the European Communities under the 1965 Merger Treaty (Treaty of Brussels). In 1993, a complete single market was achieved, known as the internal market, which allowed for the free movement of goods, capital, services, and people within the EEC. In 1994, the internal market was formalised by the EEA agreement. This agreement also extended the internal market to include most of the member states of the European Free Trade Association, forming the European Economic Area covering 15 countries.

Upon the entry into force of the Maastricht Treaty in 1993, the EEC was renamed the European Community to reflect that it covered a wider range than economic policy. This was also when the three European Communities, including the EC, were collectively made to constitute the first of the three pillars of the European Union, which the treaty also founded. The EC existed in this form until it was abolished by the 2009 Treaty of Lisbon, which incorporated the EC's institutions into the EU's wider framework and provided that the EU would "replace and succeed the European Community"


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: mayomick
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 06:15 PM

@ Iain
“To choose the one single item that could cause dissent” is what everybody should have done from the start ,Iain . if you are driving a well looking for oil and find that there is a huge block that will break all drill bits known to man , you would , as an engineer ,proceed from that knowledge surely - whatever the quantities of black gold beneath the impregnable rock ?
@ KarenH .
You think that the murderous Irish are being stubborn . You’re entitled to your prejudices , Karen ,but you should have really thought about the stubborn, savage Irish before you embarked on your stupid referendum course in 2016 . You are a Remainer and would probably think that, unlike the savage Irish , British people shouldn’t all be tarred with the same Brexit brush .But remember that David Cameron who called the referendum is also a Remainer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 06:36 PM

@Maymick
and your point is:)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: mayomick
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 06:55 PM

My point is that is was your referendum , not Ireland's but Ireland has to put up with the consequences.British nationalists can only think about what is best for Britain and not about the effect their policies have on other countries .


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 07:24 PM

Another terrible Question Time. Fiona Bruce gave free rein on brexit to the ghastly and garrulous Tory woman, even allowing her to make an extensive interruption after she'd told her to shut up. To add insult to injury, the camera repeatedly sought out the sneering Tory woman at every opportunity as other panellists were speaking. In contrast, Bruce gave the other panellists much less time and made frequent interruptions. Half way through the show she made an extremely mumbled ten-second "correction" to her utter balls-up in last week's programme, and it was very noticeable that she didn't even refer to Diane by name. Blink and you'd have missed it. Shameful and pathetic. The icing on the cake was the ignorant, baying audience, though, as ever, there were occasional diamonds embedded in the crock of shite. A terrible advert for democracy. I reckon it's time for a radical rethink on this show. I'd like to see a far smaller audience for a start. In other words, Grr. And thank God I had Highland Park to hand. End of rant due to gradual mellowing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 07:35 PM

Steve the result was in part the work of Murdoch , yet you persist in financing him through sky box just tp watch football at least jim watches shakespeare, what do you expect


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 07:40 PM

I expect that I'll be ignoring you until you turn the bloody record over.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 07:46 PM

I've never had a Sky Box by the way, and don't know what one is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 07:56 PM

i think Jim, the main advantage. I would see is environmental. Particularly the marine environment. We are after all an island.

We need a planned approach to the seas around us. I just don't think the continued fishing by factory ships and even the big English fishing boats is sustainable.

Similarly I think we need to take charge of the wealth in the country, and subsidise the building of modern factories.

The EU law wouldn't allow the land grab this would involve. Then they wouldn't allow the subsidies.

I'm an old style socialist. I believe in a planned economy. Preferably planned by the English government. We need to get into government - unconstrained by Brussels,

In answer to Backwoodsman's point. Yes of course I have doubts. But I honestly believe we're in trouble if we don't change direction. The Blair government was heartbreaking for guys like me. After 18 years of tory intransigence and double-dealing. If we had reorganised then, we wouldn't be in this mess. Held to ransom by a tiny enclave in a highly unpopular government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 08:14 PM

As I've said God knows how many times, Al, the amount we pay into the EU is around one percent of our GDP. We get some of that back in farm subsidies and regional development grants (Cornwall, where I live, has had half a billion). True, we are net contributors. Our money goes into stabilising countries with weaker economies, helping to maintain their democracy. One percent of our GDP, to help maintain peace and stability in what has been a volatile continent since the dawn of time. But you gib at that? Al, did you actually KNOW how little of our money is tied up with the EU, you know, the stuff you agitate to "take back control" of? Did you actually know that when you voted leave or did you believe all the "take back control" claptrap? Tell you what, Al. Once we leave we'll be under the control of massive trading blocs who are in no hurry to give us any deals (not a single one so far, despite Liam Fox promising us forty by now). Enjoy your new-found non-freedoms and your new-found non-opportunities!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 08:37 PM

its not the point, Steve. The point is that after the war, we decided we wanted full employment.,,after alll the shit people went through in rhe 1930's.

Our industries weren't the most efficient in the world, but by subsidising them - we avoided having beggars on the street, a hard drugs problem, and all the other social ills that are commonplace in tough capitalist economies like the US.

The EU forbade the subsidies as 'unfair competition'. Although they did in fact practice protectionism for their own industries.

Thatcher joyfully pounced on the this and used it to close down manufacturing industry in this country. Thus wresting political power from the Trade Unions.

THe EEC was an integral part of Thatchers plans, despite apparently badmouthing it.

In Sutton in Ashfield, Notts. They have lost mining, mining equipment manufacture, textiles,   ceramics. The Eu has compensated them with an ornamental sundial. Go figure....


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 08:57 PM

The EU was not responsible for those losses and you know it, Al.

Thing is, Al, we have been sold a big lie about the EU ever since the time of Wedgie Benn and Michael Foot (both blokes I admired in most other regards), not to speak of a litany of Tory eurosceptics. People like them ensured via their oft-misleading propaganda that we believed Europe was under the undemocratic control of Brussels bureaucrats, which was never even remotely true. All EU decisions, whether or not suggested by the Commission, are either agreed to by common consensus among 28 sovereign nations, put to the vote in the European Parliament, or vetoed. And of course the EU is protectionist. Tell me one major trading bloc that isn't. Yet you're happy for us to ditch the sort-of-protectionist EU in favour of the uber-protectionist US and China. I mean, wassup, Al!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: mayomick
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 09:09 PM

A lot of people in the UK seem to be still fighting the last two world wars , only with the EU taking the place of Germany .As with Big Al’s post above :
“The EU forbade the subsidies as 'unfair competition'. Although they did in fact practice protectionism for their own industries.”


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 09:47 PM

Well I suppose that's a better way of fighting a world war than the previous two. I've been to several EU countries for my hols and I love them. I find people there with the same hopes, aspirations, McDonalds and M&S as we have in the UK. I don't see dark animosity or plots to get us or desires to screw the UK. I feel quite European, actually. I want to go there as often as I can, as I love their summer warmth, their lovely grub, their friendly people and especially their gelati, and I want them to come here if they want. I've never been called up to fight Europeans, neither has my son. That's cracking good stuff is that. I'm off to bed now. Why am I posting at nearly three in the morning...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 03:25 AM

if you do not knowwhat a sky box is ask Jim, in the meantime you are still supporting rupert murdoch , which is imo hypocritical, you gave the impression in an earlier post that you paid for sky television just to watch a soccer match , bloddy pathetic


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 03:29 AM

No , I don't know it.

Of course I have doubts when virtually every MP with an IQ above room temperature disagrees with me.

But I don't really see anyone actually countering my arguments. They just abuse them and me. And I remember the ten solid miles of steel factories outside Sheffield, I used to drive past on the way to gigs. And all the textile factories, where my father in law worked as a knitter and trimmer, round where I lived - making excellent goods like Viyella Shirts, and the skills that have been lost. And I see marks and Spencer shutting down stores everywhere cos they can't sell the cheap[ foreign made goods on their shelves at High Street prices. They offer Cotton Trader products at High Street prices.

And I think we've got it wrong and membership of the EU is part of the problem.

And I don't think we'll set it right til we're quit of them, and our MP's are answerable to US and not Brussels appointees, who keep our representatives of every party waiting and buggering about. And that is my sincere belief.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 04:00 AM

"i think Jim, the main advantage. I would see is environmental. Particularly the marine environment. We are after all an island."
So a Britain tied to Ecological vandal Trump is more likly to save the planet than being part of a group that is, at least, paying lip-service to co-operation and control - give us a break Al
We USED to be an island 0 one that controlled a large proportion of the world, but now we are totally reliant on others - we have no industries to speak of and no plans to develop any so on the one hand, we rely on cheaply produced goods manufactured in apalling conditions, from textiles to computers, while at the same time building walls to keep the people who make the goods we buy out
We fished the oceans empty before the days of Sam Larner so there is no chance of reviving our fishing industry, so instead of staying within a group where there is a chance of making the best of what's left cast ourselves adrift - crazy argument
Britain is totally incapable of "going it alone" for al the flag-wagging - it doesn't even have a united people or a Government capable of holding a whist drive, never mind leading a country
That is the referendum's legacy, and it hasn't even begun to bite yet
Jim   
If


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 04:06 AM

TRY THIS FOR SIZE AL
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 04:10 AM

"Why am I posting at nearly three in the morning..."
Probably same as me - because the pubs are closed (:-)
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 04:39 AM

Why am I posting at nearly three in the morning
I read it when I woke at about 5:50am. We nearly have 24h coverage of the thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 04:45 AM

You don't need a Sky box to watch Sky, Dick.

Do you use petro chemicals? Eat food? Wear clothes? Each one of those industries is culpable in any number of human rights abuses yet you witter on about someone watching football on Sky. I know where the epithets pathetic and hypocritical should really be applied.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 04:53 AM

of course we can revive our seas. We must.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 05:04 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM Date: 24 Jan 19 - 07:24 PM
Another terrible Question Time. Shameful and pathetic. The icing on the cake was the ignorant, baying audience.

Freedom of Information request – RF20101013

"I would like to be supplied with the selection criteria the BBC use when it comes to deciding who to
select from among the many applicants to participate in the 'Question Time' audience."
Please note that your request is outside the scope of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (“ the Act”) but we are happy to explain that the programme ensures that there is due balance between the main political parties, as well as minor parties and unaligned voters in the audience.
We hope you find this helpful.

Did you actually know that when you voted leave or did you believe all the "take back control" claptrap?
Sovereignty is the word you mean!
Note:
control: the power to influence or direct people's behaviour or the course of events.
sovereignty: supreme power or authority. "the sovereignty of Parliament"
    synonyms:        jurisdiction, supremacy, dominion, power, ascendancy, suzerainty, tyranny, hegemony, domination, sway, predominance, authority, control, influence, rule, freedom

It should not be necessary to point out these vital distinctions! It was to escape external control and a re-assert sovereignty that the referendum was predicated upon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 05:12 AM

I'm not saying that your article is wrong about the way things are. I'm saying -its not the way it should be. We need to rip up everything that's gone before and get marine biologists to work out a way forward that is sustainable and good for the future.

We owe it to future generations to make our seas healthy. I won't say again - past generations didn't really have the global vision that is so natural to us now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 05:18 AM

The EU forbade the subsidies as 'unfair competition'. Although they did in fact practice protectionism for their own industries.
Thatcher joyfully pounced on the this and used it to close down manufacturing industry in this country. Thus wresting political power from the Trade Unions.THe EEC was an integral part of Thatchers plans, despite apparently badmouthing it.


Sounds good but the statistics simply do not support your view.
Coalmining
Textiles
Aircraft manufacture
heavy industry
All were in serious decline long before marvelous Maggie even started secondary school.

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/culture/2013/01/meeting-our-makers-britain%E2%80%99s-long-industrial-decline

This has been pointed out numerous times on this forum and the evidence is overwhelming and conclusive!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 05:51 AM

"of course we can revive our seas. We must."
Don't you think it strange that, despite the fact that Britain's fishing indistrt==y has been in steady decline for decades yet no Government, inside or out of Europe, has lifted a finger to help it ?
It has only surfaced now as an academic political ploy
The most likely scenario on the table now is that Britain will sacrifice the fishing rights to Europe in a deal benefiting other aspects of the economy
Britain's fishing will still remain in the hands of Europe, the only difference being that we will no longer have a say in it
Even if Britain crashes out of Europe, fishing will be way down the list of priorities, allowing the industry just to fade away completely
Crazy Al, crazy
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 06:02 AM

"Sounds good but the statistics simply do not support your view.

Coalmining
Textiles
Aircraft manufacture
heavy industry
All were in serious decline long before marvelous Maggie even started secondary school."


https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/culture/2013/01/meeting-our-makers-britain%E2%80%99s-long-industrial-decline

This has been pointed out numerous times on this forum and the evidence is overwhelming and conclusive!"


Could you explain all that to Big Al please, Iains? He seems to be under the mistaken impression they were destroyed by the EU, despite repeated explanations to the contrary by those of us whose memories are still in full working condition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 06:27 AM

"The EU forbade the subsidies as 'unfair competition'. Although they did in fact practice protectionism for their own industries."

The other way of putting that, Al, is that other countries used the flexibility built into the rules more intelligently than the UK, in such a way as to avoid unnecessary damage to their industries. The EU doesn’t have "their own industries". EU members do. And they didn't choose to elect a Margaret Thatcher and give her a licence to kill.

Blaming other people for our own cock-ups is very much the flavour of the times it seems. The same is done in the case of freedom of movement as interpreted by the UK government in a way that exploits both immigrants and natives in the interest of predatory employers.

And a pedantic point. "We are after all an island". No we aren't. England is not an island, nor is the UK. Great Britain is an island, but it has never been a country except between 1703 and 1801.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 06:55 AM

""The EU forbade the subsidies as 'unfair competition'. Although they did in fact practice protectionism for their own industries."
A strange indication that Britain has never regarded herself as part of Europe
Protectionism of their own industries surely includes British industries, which was what we agreed to when we signed up
When/if we leave, that "protectionism" will remain and be to the disadvantage of Britain - all Britain will do is remove its right to have a say in it (as with the fishing industry)
Crazier and crazier
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 06:55 AM

Backwoodsman. The legacy of Thatcher was that she recognised the decline of UK industry and introduced de regulation and encouraged globalism as a counter.

How much of her policies led to pluses and minuses in society can be argued for ever. These changes impacted the entire world and the jack will not go back in the box.

https://www.dw.com/en/the-reagan-thatcher-revolution/a-16732731

https://www.ft.com/content/8f41da48-a05f-11e2-a6e1-00144feabdc0

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2013/apr/16/margaret-thatcher-impact-legacy-development

The real problem, well demonstrated by the referendum, is that there is a basic dichotomy between globalisation of trade by ever growing multinationals and retention of national identity and sovereignty. The overarching reality of the EU becoming a political union does nothing to combat the ever growing power of multinationals. Power is owned by the money- the voice of the individual citizen is being shrunken and sidestepped by the day. This is well demonstrated by our present crop of mps. 500 voted for article 50. Who paid them to change their minds?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 07:52 AM

"Power is owned by the money- the voice of the individual citizen is being shrunken and sidestepped by the day."

I completely agree. Yet you Brexshiteers voted to remove the checks, balances and controls of the EU over the behaviour of the tiny, immensely wealthy, powerful cadre who, in order to further their own interests and increase their wealth and power, have driven the BrexShit process from the dark shadows, and to hand absolute power to them, no matter what damage it causes to the lives of the people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 07:57 AM

The regulations killed our industries. Thatcher used them to take political power from the trades unions.

Saying that the regulations weren't to blame is a bit like the 'guns don't kill people ' shit. We all know if the guns aren't available people don't get killed in quite so many numbers. or maybe you disagree with that.

I saw it happen. I saw it was going to happen. I watched it happen as predicted.

You don't have to agree with me. You're free to tell me I'm an asshole for thinking as I do. many do.

But I 'm not going to take sides with the iceberg.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 08:10 AM

Other countries didn't exploit the regulations self destructively. A better analogy than guns here is cars. Cars driven sensibly are useful. There are some people who shouldn’t be allowed behind a wheel. Margaret Thatcher was someone who shouldn't have been trusted in charge of a country, and you can't blame the EU for that.
................


Here is an entertaining spin on the Brexit debacle


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 08:22 AM

Dunno if that was for me, Al, or someone else? All I'll say is that you know my views on The Beast of Grantham very well, I've made them very plain on many occasions - she was the worst thing that's ever happened to this country in peacetime.

The point I was making in my comment to Iains 25 Jan 19 - 06:02 AM, was that, despite being told that British industry, fishing, etc. was buggered before we joined the Common Market (i.e. 'long before marvellous Maggie even started secondary school'), you continue to blame the EU for their demise.

I simply hoped that hearing it from a fellow Brexshitter, you might start to believe it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 08:27 AM

Big Al the world was changing prior to Thatcher. If you study the aircraft industry it was a world leader immediately postwar and into the fifties. Both political parties destroyed the aircraft industry ably assisted by management of the numerous aircraft companies. The reluctance to modernise and integrate was not restricted to the aircraft industry. The unions are a separate issue- governments rule countries not unions,( or cadres trying to redefine british democracy, as now). Thatcher created big bang and as a result the service sector exploded while traditional industries declined due to poor management, union activists, lack of investment and more importantly global competition. How you wish to explain it depends on perspective. The textile industry grew on the colonial market, now many of those markets manufacture and export. They also have the competitive advantage.
The industrial revolution started in the UK but on down the line others learn from our mistakes and did not have obsolescence to deal with. America also soon caught up and overtook the UK in innovation. The US industry for small arms was the first to perfect mass production techniques.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 08:28 AM

"The regulations killed our industries. "
Utter nonsense - I left Liverpool in the 1960 when the containerisation wiped out Liverpool as a port - that was echoed throughout Britain
Thatcher administered the coup-de-grace on to a coal industry that was dead on its feet from under-investment, her motive, to smash the unions, the steel industry died from lack of investment and the textile industry started to decline inn 1952 when Britain allowed foreign firms to flood the market with cheaply produced goods, competition from Japan and South Korea wiped out the British Shipbuilding industry   
We in the North of England watched this happen before our eyes because we were the worst effected
Where did "regulations" come into any of this - most of it was deliberate because it was more profitable to buy foreign
You seem to be floundering around to find reasons to blame Europe
I often wonder how Brexteers are going to explain the nnow fairly universally predicted mess that is set fair to destabilise the British economy for the next decade or so
https://www.ippr.org/blog/if-you-think-brexit-is-going-to-be-bad-for-the-economy-just-wait-until-you-see-what-s-in-store-for-us-in-2020
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 08:33 AM

Just watched a number of interviews with Irish politicians of various parties - none of which I support
All have pointed out masterfully that the Border is Briain's chosen problem and it is Britain's job to sort it outinstead of constantly blaming the Irish for not co-operating
I think that goes for the few here who refuse to recognise the seriousness of Ireland's problem
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 08:47 AM

You are interacting with him again lads. I can assure you he is just lulling you into a false sense of security.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 09:07 AM

I often wonder how Brexteers are going to explain the nnow fairly universally predicted mess that is set fair to destabilise the British economy for the next decade or so

That's easy: it will be the fault of May and remainers for standing in the way of a proper Brexit, talking the country down and generally preventing the One True Brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 09:16 AM

I would masterfully point out that Ireland will be directly impacted by brexit. I would also point out thatIntransigence is not a clever negotiating tactic.

I left Liverpool in the 1960 when the containerisation wiped out Liverpool as a port - that was echoed throughout Britain

This is called progress.

the steel industry died from lack of investment and the textile industry started to decline inn 1952 when Britain allowed foreign firms to flood the market with cheaply produced goods, competition from Japan and South Korea wiped out the British Shipbuilding industry

Production goes to the least cost base. Making uncompetitive widgets just creates unemployment and bankruptcies.

Thatcher administered the coup-de-grace on to a coal industry that was dead on its feet from under-investment,

Utter rubbish as you have been told repeatedly on this forum and given the supporting statistics.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 09:23 AM

"I often wonder how Brexteers are going to explain the nnow fairly universally predicted mess that is set fair to destabilise the British economy for the next decade or so

That's easy: it will be the fault of May and remainers for standing in the way of a proper Brexit, talking the country down and generally preventing the One True Brexit."


Errrmm....you mean Jeremy Corbyn, surely? ;-)

May's already trying to blame him for the entire debacle, I'm sure the Brexshiteers will be happy to follow her lead...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 09:39 AM

" talking the country down and generally preventing the One True Brexit."
Is this irony ?
I sometimes have a problem distinguishing with some posters some serious ones can be really off-the-wall at times
Maybe the Brexiteers have plans to start up a widget industry - wonderful to see the patriots describing Britain's industrial pride in such patriotic terms - (sorry Dave, we would be neglecting in our duty to let that gem of national pride go un-commented on)
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 09:42 AM

I often wonder how Brexteers are going to explain the nnow fairly universally predicted mess that is set fair to destabilise the British economy for the next decade or so

Main thing is, they'll blame it all on those nasty foreigners who've ganged up against the UK. And of course Remainers who stopped us having a proper Brexitty deal. Always someone else's fault.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 10:17 AM

" talking the country down and generally preventing the One True Brexit."
Is this irony ?
I sometimes have a problem distinguishing with some posters some serious ones can be really off-the-wall at times


I won't get into whether it is ironic or not because that is a really complicated subject. But what I meant was that whatever sort of Brexit we end up with any problems will be blamed on the fact is was not done in line with the purists and so it will be, as McGrath said, someone else's fault. It will never be seen as a problem inherent in Brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 11:00 AM

"was not done in line with the purists"
This disingenuous nonsense needs to be faced head on
The decision, my a minority of the British people, was agreed with no qualified set of promises - there is still no coherent map of where Britain will go when/if they leave
All this should have been laid before the British people before the vote was taken - instead they were given a magical mystery tour to vote on based largely on controlling the input of foreigners
If the people's opinion meant anything more than a fart in a hurricane to these no-marks, those who did would be given a chance to confirm that their decision remains the same and those who didn't should be allowed to vote on theirs and their childrens' future with the fuller facts at their disposal.
Democracy has only meant anything to them indoors when it can be manipulated to serve the haves and, at the same time, give the impression of being the peoples' will
It's at times like this that I thank the god I don't believe in for proportional representation, which, while not being fuly democrating, at leastt manages to keep some of the sharks at bay
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 11:10 AM

Irish troops threatened to the Irish border.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46998533

or according to Guido it is fast becoming a Brian Rix farce



https://order-order.com/2019/01/25/now-varadkar-threatens-put-troops-irish-border/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 11:17 AM

I don't think you are getting my point, Jim, but accept it might be because I am not being clear enough. I do not believe in a One True Brexit, but there are those who do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 11:17 AM

Maybe the Brexiteers have plans to start up a widget industry.

Only if the business model indicates success. Otherwise it would be rather silly!

It is only the loony left that thinks finance falls like manna from heaven, off a magical money tree. That is why each time in power their economic policy creates an industrial wasteland of catastrophic proportions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 11:20 AM

You are interacting with him again lads. I can assure you he is just lulling you into a false sense of security.

Hmm! A gnome, a troll, or a vexatious little goblin?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 11:55 AM

"but accept it might be because I am not being clear enough"
I think I do - I was trying to establish whether you were being ironic, which seems to eb the case
My posting wasn't aimed at what you said, which was clear enough - it was my summing up of what I believe needs to be established clearly

Does someone have the emergency number for Rainhill? (understandable only to Liverpudlians over a certain age)
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 01:11 PM

I don't like to say I told you so but...

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 02:04 PM

There is no dispute, it is a spiteful little goblin trying to get the thread closed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 02:08 PM

he embattled People’s Vote campaign are dismayed that Jeremy Corbyn won’t get off the fence and back their second referendum campaign. It’s funny how they’re now begging for his help when they’ve been some of his harshest critics for years:
What a joke!

    Tony Blair in 2016 said Jeremy Corbyn in power would be a “very dangerous experiment”.
    Peter Mandelson in 2017 said “I work every single day in some small way to bring forward the end of his tenure in office. Something, however small it may be – an email, a phone call or a meeting I convene – every day I try to do something to save the Labour party from his leadership.”
    Alastair Campbell in 2015 called on Labour members to vote for “anyone but Corbyn” and said that his election as leader would show that Labour had “given up on being a serious party of government”.
    Chuka Umunna in 2015 said that Corbyn and his “nasty trolls” should be disqualified from office because of their pacifist views.
    Sadiq Khan in 2016 wrote that Labour “cannot win with Corbyn” and said that Corbyn had “proved that he is unable to organise an effective team, and has failed to win the trust and respect of the British people”.
    Tom Baldwin, the People’s Vote’s Director of Communications, wrote in 2016 that “people at every level of our party recognised a responsibility to bring Jeremy Corbyn’s experimental retro-70s leadership to a swift end” and tweeted that “getting rid of Corbyn would be a step in the right direction”.
    Anna Soubry just last week called Corbyn the “most hopeless opposition leader we’ve ever had” .
    Mike Gapes also directly attacked Corbyn just last week, saying “Apparently Corbyn is prepared to hold talks with Hamas, Hezbollah, Assad and Iran without preconditions. But not with the UK Prime Minister. Why?”
    Chris Leslie in 2015 accused Corbyn of “plucking figures out of the air” and said that his policies would hit the poor the hardest as well as keeping Labour out of power for a decade.
    Sarah Wollaston in 2016 said “Whatever your political views, we all benefit from a competent official opposition; that cannot happen under Corbyn”.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 02:25 PM

I think you are spot on about the folly of interacting in this case, Dave. Some people seem to find it irresistible. Very hard to understand that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 02:25 PM

I think you are spot on about the folly of interacting in this case, Dave. Some people seem to find it irresistible. Very hard to understand that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 02:27 PM

"I don't like to say I told you so but..."
Don't lie - yes you do, we all do
We wouldn't me human if we didn't
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 02:36 PM

You are both right :-)

Back to brexit now.

Philip Hammond has now said that "leaving without a deal would cause 'severe damage' to the UK economy".

Common sense from Tory. Wonders will never cease.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 02:46 PM

...All we need to happen now is for May to listen to her chancellor and take no deal off the table. Corbyn will then add some real sense and we can move the whole shambles into a firmer footing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 03:35 PM

I have a cunning plan... :-) :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 03:38 PM

On the subject of our Troll, if he's posting sensibly and civilly I have no problem interacting with him. Unfortunately, his psychiatric disorder means that he seldom keeps it up for long. Then it's time to ignore him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 03:55 PM

No point, John. You know what is coming so just ignore him full stop.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 04:00 PM

I suspect a quite word has been said in his earhole ......

Back to Brexit.

The UK government has been training people to prepare for a disorderly exit from the UK.

A sign of things to come.

Could someone please link to the article in todays Guardian.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 04:02 PM

You have a point Dave. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 07:29 PM

I strongly suspect that most people in the rest of the EU are crossing their fingers against the possibility that the UK might change its mind and stay in. That's among those who are particularly interested in the whole thing. A silent majority - rather similar to what was revealed in a study that found that a large majority of Tories would be happy to see the back of Scotland and Northern Ireland if that would mean that Brexit went ahead. So much for Theresa May's "our precious union".

Large majorities of English Tory voters would be willing to support Scottish independence (79 percent) or even the undoing of the Northern Ireland peace process (75 percent) as “worth it” to “take back control” from the European Union, new research from the Universities of Edinburgh and Cardiff has suggested.
Reuter’s, October 2018.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 08:19 PM

This has certainly affected the US economy. It is probably relating to some of the comments that are focused on current economic plights.

Worldwide population is inexorably growing, thus increasing the availability of labor, esp. cheap and very cheap labor.
Technology has enabled the reliable movement of capital.

The above two points have led to what is called globalism.
Uncontrolled it leads to rapid impoverishment of once stable working classes.
With regulation and some discomfort, it can lead to the changes in manufacturing and service industries that most of us have been witness to.
With controls and tariffs and embargoes, many of the inevitable changes can be held off for a time providing false sense of security and temporary job pseudo-stability.

The development of the EU, and such agreements in the West and Asia as NAFTA and the TPP were attempts to acknowledge the inevitable changes to the world economy while minimizing (the over-used fancy work is 'mitigating') the pain of displacement and redundancy. Obama was onto this, but unfortunately Trump made a successful appeal to fear and ignorance. I think the BREXIT affair was parallel only that Europe had its own issues (the bureaucratic rule out of Brussels and the population displacement out of Turkey, Arabia and Africa. What the anti EU and anti-Obama movements had in common was fear (a lot of it understandable) and a certain amount of racism (not accusing everyone of racism, just saying that it doesn't take much to make a difference).

Bottom line: These changes are going to come regardless, and those who can manage to align for them will experience the least pain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 19 - 02:25 AM

Good summary, Robomatic.

Of course both Trump supporters and EU leavers will deny any element of fear, ignorance or racism and I don't believe for one minute that either group have a majority of people displaying those attributes. But, as you say, it doesn't take many to make a difference.

I have just finished re-reading "The Truth" by Terry Pratchett. One of the lines that was resonant with me then is even more so now.

A lie can run round the world before the truth has got its boots on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 19 - 03:05 AM

"Then it's time to ignore him."
It has become clear to me that if he kicks off again, as he appears to be now doing, the Mods will have no alliterative Then it's time to ignore him.but to take action against him
Any reacting to or against his indefensible behaviour can only prolong his trolling - as I have been told constantly by a mod "stop feeding the troll- makes sense to me
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 19 - 03:12 AM

Spell corrector went haywire there
It has become clear to me that if he kicks off again, as he appears to be doing the mods will have no alternative but to do something take action against him

Faulty posting should keep hi busy for a while
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 19 - 03:50 AM

"resonant with me then" should have read "resonant with me first time round".


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Jan 19 - 11:36 AM

So it looks like the most likely amendment to pass on Tuesday is a Tory one to go back and renegotiate the backstop. Meanwhile the EU is clear the price of reopening the backstop discussions is a permanent customs union. Which of course the reason the Leavers want the backstop changed.

Place your bets now whether Parliament will vote to demand rejection of the backstop.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 26 Jan 19 - 11:56 AM

It's the only way to demonstrate who are, and who are not, the 'bastards' (as the Mods so charmingly describe those who challenge bigotry and provocation) on here.

https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=161452
seems very clear to me who the b******s are. It is the usual suspects!

Perhaps a kind forum fairy would close this thread as it now merely seems to consist of repeated personal attacks by the "usual"


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jan 19 - 12:20 PM

One persistent assertion of the "no deal" Brexiteers is that leaving with no deal would mean £39 billion to play with that they wouldn't have to give to those nasty foreigners. What they ignore is that that £39 billion is not a fine for leaving, it is payment in respect of debts incurred by the EU - a version of those debts which has if anything been pared down to assist the UK in these difficult times.

Failing to pay would be a matter of the UK defaulting on its debts, which is not a very good basis for winning the trust of any tother countries in conducting any kind of business or negotiation. The term used in such cases is "pariah state". Or to use a term with historical basis in the case of this country "Albion perfide".


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 19 - 12:43 PM

I doubt that many leavers would understand that, Kevin. In a recent survey, linked above, 26% of people thought that no deal meant we would be staying in the EU.

Maybe I am lucky in that I studied British constitution and government, and Economics at college but I thought that more people used to understand what was actually going on in politics than this. I guess the Tory cuts to education have done the job they were designed to do. An ignorant electorate is easier to manipulate :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 19 - 01:13 PM

Northern Ireland demonstrators out in force today demanding there should be no hard border
Perhaps the problems that Ireland, both sides of the border, will eventually filter down to those who claim it's the Irish and Europe who are being intransigent - it's the UKwho have thrown their toys out of the pram and now they are demanding that everybody else has to pick them up

Leo Varadkar got himself into hot water yesterday by suggesting the possibility of troops returning to te North _ I have no tim for the man and his policies, but I really can't see much wrong with what he said - there is a distinct possibility that, if things continue the way they are going British troops will have to return to keep order
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 26 Jan 19 - 01:16 PM

An ignorant electorate is easier to manipulate :

That argument applies equally to both sides,therefore the effect is self cancelling. Many of those subject to Tory education cuts are still below voting age, whereas those whose education was destroyed by Labout education cuts are fully enfranchised.
Was it not the Labour MP AnthonyCrossland said "If it's the last thing I do, I'm going to destroy every fucking grammar school in England. And Wales. And Northern Ireland."    Crosland is so quoted by his wife Susan Crosland in her biography. Hewent toa fee paying school
and from the Gruniard:
" Labour MP Diane Abbott made a second attempt to defend her decision to send her son to a fee-paying school, after she was attacked by her neighbouring MP in East London. ... Since then she has admitted her decision was "indefensible" but attacked the state of the education system"
A familiar pattern of labour elitism emerging here I fear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 26 Jan 19 - 01:26 PM

I have no tim for the man and his policies, but I really can't see much wrong with what he said

That will put you in a very small minority then!

The Taoiseach has come under fire for “inflaming tensions” with “reckless and irresponsible” warnings of a return to soldiers and checkpoints along the border if there is a no-deal Brexit.


https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/taoiseachunder-fire-for-border-soldiers-warning-900216.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 19 - 02:41 PM

https://www.thejournal.ie/violence-north-brexit-4452334-Jan2019/
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Jan 19 - 02:55 PM

An ignorant electorate is easier to manipulate :

That argument applies equally to both sides, therefore the effect is self cancelling.


I am afraid not: that assumes for example that the voting patterns of those with higher formal qualifications and without was the same, for example, which we know it wasn't. Also, it would not be self cancelling if those wanting outcome A were more prepared to manipulate - or more effective - than those wanting outcome B: even if the electorate were equally manipulatable the effect would not cancel out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 26 Jan 19 - 03:00 PM

From the same article:
Over 1,000 adults were asked by Amarách Research for Claire Byrne Live yesterday, and 65% of people said they were fearful, while 24% said they weren’t.

It comes after a number of security alerts in Derry city in recent days, with the most recent last night involving a van reported abandoned outside a girls’ secondary school.

A number of incidents yesterday followed the explosion of a car bomb from outside a courthouse on Bishop Street in the city on Saturday night.

A comment below the article:
"Personally i think that the bomb attack at the weekend wasn`t to do with Brexit, but had more to do with the anniversary of 100 years ago and the first shots fired at Soloheadbeg, The bombing was exactly 100 years to the day of that anniversary which were claimed to be the first shots fired in Ireland`s civil war, it seems like this “New IRA” were trying to make a statement of some sort"

The official view of the UK government:
The attack that happened on Saturday night is the result of a threat level that has been in place before the Brexit vote, these are plots and activities that these people have been working on and trying to carry out for many, many years.

This rather confirms the statement:
The Taoiseach has come under fire for “inflaming tensions” with “reckless and irresponsible” warnings......".


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 26 Jan 19 - 04:46 PM

From yougov:
The most dramatic split is along the lines of education. 70% of voters whose educational attainment is only GCSE or lower voted to Leave, while 68% of voters with a university degree voted to Remain in the EU. Those with A levels and no degree were evenly split, 50% to 50%.

Age is the other great fault line. Under-25s were more than twice as likely to vote Remain (71%) than Leave (29%). Among over-65s the picture is almost the exact opposite, as 64% of over-65s voted to Leave while only 36% voted to Remain. Among the other age groups, voters aged 24 to 49 narrowly opted for Remain (54%) over leave (46%) while 60% of voters between the ages of 50 and 64 went for Leave.

70%/68% Dramatic? dont fink so!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Jan 19 - 05:33 PM

On the other hand:

But Peter Kellner, the former president of the YouGov polling firm, said Sheerman was factually correct.
“I would not use Barry Sheerman’s choice of words but the facts are broadly on his side,” Kellner told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Monday.
“Overall, people who left school at 15 or 16 voted around two to one for Brexit. [For] people who got up to A-level or equivalent qualification [it was] 50:50. Graduates voted two to one to remain in the EU.
“So yes, there is quite a clear educational gradient in the way people voted in last year’s referendum.”


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 19 - 08:04 PM

So, DMcG, is that an argument for "a second referendum," or is it a rock-solid argument for not having referendums at all? By extension, is it an argument that the 2016 referendum was illegitimate?

You probably know what I think!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 02:20 AM

No, I don't think it is an argument for a second referendum. Or indeed against one. The factors that argue against a second referendum are those listed earlier. The only argument in favour of a second referendum I am aware of is that it may be a way of resolving some of the issues. To me, it is like Russian Roulette. Yes, if you play you may end up blowing you head off. So it only becomes sensible to play it when that is a lower risk than not playing.

I should perhaps say it wasn't the role of the education that I was really responding to, but the wider logical fallacy that if a characteristic is shared by the whole population it 'cancels out'. It can do, of course, but it is how the characteristic interacts with other factors that determines whether it does or not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 03:47 AM

"it may be a way of resolving some of the issues."
Considering what some of those issues are, that would be enough for me
Don't you think that, now that we have a clearer view of what leaving Europe means, none of which was available able at the time of the first vote, the people are entitled to a chance to confirm that this is how they see the future of Britain ?
Brexit was sold as a pig-in-a-poke, largely on promises that could not be honoured
It seems to me the only democratic thing to do is to vot again
Britain can hardly become more divided that it is at present, unless you consider Civil War a possibility
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 03:47 AM

"it may be a way of resolving some of the issues."
Considering what some of those issues are, that would be enough for me
Don't you think that, now that we have a clearer view of what leaving Europe means, none of which was available able at the time of the first vote, the people are entitled to a chance to confirm that this is how they see the future of Britain ?
Brexit was sold as a pig-in-a-poke, largely on promises that could not be honoured
It seems to me the only democratic thing to do is to vot again
Britain can hardly become more divided that it is at present, unless you consider Civil War a possibility
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 04:11 AM

Brexit was sold as a pig-in-a-poke, largely on promises that (WOULD) could not be honoured
Aaah yes! The promise to honour the result ofthe referendum that looks increasingly like it will not be honoured by our treacherous mps.

More fine antics of labour's MPs corbyn and abbott:

Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott 'wreck' law to protect child abuse victims over fears a new data sharing treaty with the US could be used to sentence a criminal to death.

As a commentator said:
"Whatever is wrong with Corbyn and Abbott? They are a total disgrace to democracy and justice. Protection of children should be our most important priority as human beings."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 05:04 AM

I should perhaps say it wasn't the role of the education that I was really responding to, but the wider logical fallacy that if a characteristic is shared by the whole population it 'cancels out'. It can do, of course, but it is how the characteristic interacts with other factors that determines whether it does or not.
I am afraid that seems a load of sociology waffle to me. If pointy heads cannot even predict the voting preferences of an electorate then taking any notice of their pontifications as to why they voted is a reckless pastime and could lead to all sorts of erroneous conclusions.

In the US I believe a sociology degree is generally a BA. Hardly a hard science, is it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 05:13 AM

I am going to personalise it this time. Just over two month, and the useless garbage in government still have not guaranteed freedom of movement for UK nationals, or full benefit of the customs union and single market. I challenge the brexshitters here to tell me to my face why they feel they personally feel that I should not be entitled to this. The sniveling cowards will say 'because that is what the people voted for, not some crap like that'. I want to kn ow why they personally voted to **** up my rights as a European citizen. Is ****ing up peoples lives just a big joke to you all?

?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 05:30 AM

I am afraid that seems a load of sociology waffle to me.

Fair enough, they are more important things to discuss. But for the record it is formal logic and to do with independence of variables, not sociology.


As for SPB's question - I have my hypotheses why that happens, but being on the Remainer side of the fence, it is for others to answer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 05:34 AM

MSN reporting martial law being considered

Exaggeration or not, this is how the situation is being reported.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 05:37 AM

One of the many lies told and promises broken, SPB, was that it would be easy to negotiate the things you want. I think that those who voted to leave genuinely believed it would be. I would not blame them but rather put the blame on the shower of shits who blatantly lied, made promises they could not keep and then blamed it on everyone but themselves. In order

Nigel Garage
Boris Johnson
Michael Gove

David Cameron must be included because he should have known better and Jacob Rees-Mogg just for being a twat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 05:41 AM

Farage rather than garage of course. Before the people with only enough wit to use spelling mistakes as arguments jump on me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 05:48 AM

They simply didn't know what they were voting for. They thought they were voting to kick Johnny Foreigner up the backside and stop him from coming here. They swallowed the hallowed lie that laws are forced on us by unelected Brussels bureaucrats. They didn't take your interests or mine or the good citizens of the EU into consideration. They didn't realise the mortal threat to peace in Northern Ireland. They didn't realise that we would relinquish a powerful controlling hand on future EU policy and that bad things are now going to happen in consequence. They haven't a clue as to what "sovereignty" means, or that we are now going to lose "control" of a damn sight more money than ever got tied up with the EU. They forgot that "control of our borders" can only work one way and that we are now going to struggle to run our NHS and our care system, as if they aren't in enough Tory trouble already. They talk bullshit about "opportunities" and believed the vacuous promises that countries were going to fall over themselves to sign trade deals with us. We were promised forty by now, but we have yet to sign a single one. In their brainless hubris they thought they knew better along with their mates down the boozer than the people who are paid full-time to know better. They think that their cross on the ballot meant this, that and the other, when it was just a cross, not even an English word. The people who voted leave were either gullible, racists or gullible racists. And look where they've got us.

If you can, tune into Point Of View on Radio 4 on the iPlayer. Listen to Val McDermid's clear-headed exposition of why referendums are such a bloody stupid idea and how they can, and will, undermine and ultimately wreck democracy.

One day I'll tell you what I really think.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 05:56 AM

Theresa may has been blocking reform of Northern Ireland's stringent pregnancy termination laws in order to keep Sectarian DUP on her side
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 06:38 AM

Then again she might not. Is that project fear? or another "once upon a time" story?m


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 06:43 AM

They haven't a clue as to what "sovereignty" means,.....

and their parents and grandparents did not know what sovereignty was during WW2 either I suppose.

You post some quite irrational material at times. No wonder you do not supply links. You would never find anyone to support you, other than the rabid left.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 06:49 AM

That is noticeably not an answer to Son's question.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 06:51 AM

SPB's question. Damn autocorrect again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 07:02 AM

"Listen to Val McDermid's "
Saw an interview on Irish tele - amazing in-your - face lady (and a magnificent thriller writer)
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 07:12 AM

ust over two month, and the useless garbage in government still have not guaranteed freedom of movement for UK nationals, or full benefit of the customs union and single market.

not going to personalize it ??????

You will still have freedom of movement. You may need a visa but not always.
As of 9 October 2018, British citizens had visa-free or visa on arrival access to 186 countries and territories, ranking the British passport 5th in terms of travel freedom (tied with Austrian, Dutch, Luxembourg, Irish, Norwegian, Portuguese and the United States passports) according to the Henley Passport Index. Visa free travel abroad is not uniform throughout the EU for it's citizens, it is dictated by each individual country,
Having a career mainly overseas for 45 years(not within the EU) freedom of travel was not a problem.

Leaving the EU meant leaving. That means leaving the EU customs union.
It is not like retrieving a piece of chewing gum from under the desk where remnants still adhere with tenuous links to the withdrawing entity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 07:22 AM

Whilst in the EU we abide by laws and regulations (a small minority of the ones that govern us, actually, as we are free to draw up all our domestic laws) that we have helped in a big way to draw up and which we overwhelming agree with. Most EU law is agreed to by common consent, without dispute. When we leave the EU and are obliged to make deals with the likes of the US and China (both of whom can manage quite well without good deals with us), we will have no say over regulations. And as a small nation we will be far more under the thumb of mega-corporations than we are now, under the umbrella as we are of almost half a billion people. So much for the much-vaunted "sovereignty," the subject of one of the leave campaign's most bogus arguments. Along with the let's-keep-foreigners-out part of the campaign, it was the one that appealed most to the chest-thumping little-England sentiment.

So that's the sovereignty and the control-of-money-and-borders waffle dispatched. Next...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 07:24 AM

DMcG. Your patience knows no bounds! I am impressed. To be calmly and rationally explaining things to some who cannot tell the difference between "I am going to personalise it this time" and "not going to personalize it" takes some doing. I admire your fortitude but strongly suggest that you just ignore him as everyone else now does.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 07:29 AM

Jim, the vote may have been in ignorance of the likely outcome therefore leave voters should admit their ignorance or confess that they deliberately voted because they personally wanted to kick people in the teeth by denying them the rights that they themselves had enjoyed for 40 years. Anyone who says that the resented these benefits for decades are surely liars. And again, I will rephrase the question. Those of you who are still brexiters, why do you still personally believe that UK nationals, including myself should not be entitled to freedom of movement and the benefits of the customs union?

On a side issue, if in the future Cornwall is denied structural support and investment by the UK government, then the retired wannabe gentry should not be surprised if out-of-work Cornish people help them 'come home to a real fire'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 07:37 AM

I don't like ignoring people, Dave. I will happy ignore posts are that are abuse, whoever posts them, and if I think someone is just trying to 'stir' I am also prepared to ignore them. But I think SPB's question is a good one and deserves an answer. That can only come from the Iains, Nigels, bobads and so on. I and other leavers can give our views, but it will have to be one of the leavers that answers.

Unless they avoid facing up to it which is what I expect. For example Nigel went as far as accepting there will be 'Some short term hardship' but was not openly prepared to say he is ready to accept his nearest and dearest suffering that hardship.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 07:40 AM

Steve, I gave Jim credit for your response, sorry Jim.

Freedom of movement is not just about travel, it is also the RIGHT to work, study, retire, live with another person. Again, a RIGHT, not the gift of an individual government which can be removed or have conditions attached to it at its whim. That is what treaties are for.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 07:53 AM

Thanks for the response, DMcG. I have to differ with you purely on the basis that any interaction at all only encourages some to continue their campaigns of abuse and disruption.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 07:54 AM

Whoops! I and other *remainers*. I would not want to mislead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 08:24 AM

"Farage rather than garage of course. Before the people with only enough wit to use spelling mistakes as arguments jump on me."

Farridge, Farardsh, Garridge, garardsh, let's call the whole thing off!

Please?


(Sorry, this is no time for levity...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 08:57 AM

Exaggeration or not, this is how the situation is being reported.
I would be extremely disappointed if government did notPLAN for all sorts of eventualities. to highlight such planning is project fear.
I am sure various other scenarios are planned for that would horrify you, had you knowledge of them. But unlike biblical terminology, there is no guarantee that It shall come to pass

Again, a RIGHT, not the gift of an individual government which can be removed or have conditions attached to it at its whim.
Totally incorrect!
Until recently(relatively) your passport addressed you as a subject, not a citizen. The status today is both
subject or citizen
Should anyone wish to test it I amsure conscription would very forcefully demonstrate who is entitled to what.

So that's the sovereignty and the control-of-money-and-borders waffle dispatched. Next..
Whilst in the EU we abide by laws and regulations (a small minority of the ones that govern us,


As usual not a shred of evidence to support your assertions.


http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2012/06/13/europeanization-of-public-policy/

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36473105


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 09:06 AM

"I will rephrase the question. Those of you who are still brexiters, why do you still personally believe that UK nationals, including myself should not be entitled to freedom of movement and the benefits of the customs union"
Hope that's not addressed to me - I'm for staying, not only on political principles, but over the last few wees, as Brits, we've been running around like blue-arsed flies trying to find out if Lemming Britain's actions will effect our living in Ireland
If it's going to effect us, how is it going to effect the several million brits living in Europe?
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 09:31 AM

"I will rephrase the question. Those of you who are still brexiters, why do you still personally believe that UK nationals, including myself should not be entitled to freedom of movement and the benefits of the customs union"

As a British subject you are only entitled to such freedoms as the crown allows you. No more. No Less


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 11:22 AM

A rough translation is that they ask to be elected by promising the earth - we believe them and elect them - they totally ignore all the promises they made and work for the wealthy for five years - then the cycle is repeated ad-infinitum
It may be called democracy but in fact it is 'democratic dictatorship'
We have what rights they care to give us, no more
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 12:38 PM

A review of the new Dyson model - the 'Moral Vacuum'...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 01:50 PM

In case you did not know the pronunciation of Brexit in the US is Breg zit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 02:14 PM

Americans pronounce everything wrong! ;-) :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 03:10 PM

http://eveningharold.com/2019/01/23/dyson-launch-moral-vacuum/
The Sunday Times tax list is a full rundown of the top 50 taxpayers in 2017/18
Top was Stephen Rubin, owner of JD Sports and liable for £181.6 million last year

Sir James Dyson was third on the list paying £127.8 million


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 05:58 PM

From: DMcG - PM
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 07:37 AM
. . . Unless they avoid facing up to it which is what I expect. For example Nigel went as far as accepting there will be 'Some short term hardship' but was not openly prepared to say he is ready to accept his nearest and dearest suffering that hardship.

There may be some 'short term hardship' (translate that expression how you may) but I am willing to accept that for myself, in the belief that getting free of membership of the EU will, in the long run, be better for the UK.
I realise that my immediate (younger) family may have voted 'remain'. That is, of course, their option. But my belief is that their votes (if that was the case) were based on the knowledge of a limited period of experience. I voted based on the history of the EU/EEC/Common Market since we joined. I believe that the original choice to join (taken by politicians), or to remain in 'The Common Market' (taken by referendum) was the wrong choice.
The more I see of the manoeuvres by the EU politicians (including a large number of our MPs) to pressurise us not to leave (despite the result of the referendum) the more I believe I was right to vote 'Leave'.
And I don't think I said "There will be some short term hardship". I think I accepted that there 'may' be, but that it was worth it to get out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 06:02 PM

That was my first post in this 'new' thread as I've been away on holiday (to Malta).
If we manage to escape the EU I don't imagine it will put any great barriers in the way of my taking such holidays in future (or to the Spanish islands, or elsewhere). The poorer (and sunnier) members of the EU rely on tourist income to a great extent.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 19 - 08:10 PM

Well make sure your health cover is up to snuff because a crashout means no EHIC, and no reciprocal medical care agreements means that your insurance will cost more, and it will also mean that your existing conditions won't be covered unless you pay a fortune. It could mean no more free roaming. And don't expect to swan through customs at the airport like you do now either. It's true that a weak pound means that Brits may be less inclined to go to Europe on holiday, which in turn may provide an incentive for EU holiday providers to cut costs. But book your hols now, Nigel, because, sure as eggs is eggs, that will be temporary. We're not the only tourists who like to holiday in Europe. I stashed away a goodly supply of euros when I could get 1.20 or more to the pound. Lucky me. Better move fast before May gets trashed again this week, Nigel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 02:05 AM

It was no accident that I asked about hardship for your nearest and dearest rather than yourself. We have all seen the cinematic set piece where the villain threatens the hero who nobly bears it, so the villain turns his weapon on the hero's family. "You are prepared to die for your beliefs, I see. Are you prepared for these others to die for them?"

That you are prepared to put up with problems for your beliefs is your right. The question is are you prepared to let others (who don't necessarily share them) suffer for them. That does not look heroic. It looks self centred.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 02:57 AM

Nigel's "does imagine" sums it all up really - that's what everybody has to do regarding Britain's future "imagine" - nobody knows what will happen after Britain leaves the E U, or, based on current rumblings, whether it even will leave
Already they are talking about putting any decision on 'the long finger' and pushing the date back a few months
One of the complaints of the economists and industrialists has long been that they cannot possibly plan for the future if they have no idea of what they are going to have to deal with
That rats like Dyson start deserting the sinking ship gives the impression that some of them have a good idea
Do you have any view of the shortages of medicines that is being discussed - can we assume that you "don't imagine" that will happen either?
I have become used to the mindless disinterest of our poster who wsums up British industry as the production of "widgets", but Nigel's complacency frankly depresses me
Is there no one on your side who can show some interest in Britain's future ?

Nice cartoon in the Irish edition of the Sunday Times - two road signs side-by-side - one reading "you are now leaving Fishguard", the other "Please join the queue for Dover here"
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 04:48 AM

"I have become used to the mindless disinterest of our poster who wsums up British industry as the production of "widgets", but Nigel's complacency frankly depresses me
Is there no one on your side who can show some interest in Britain's future ?"


In black and white a very clear indication of not having the slightest idea of what was said. Most ably demonstrated by the following:
I left Liverpool in the 1960 when the containerisation wiped out Liverpool as a port - that was echoed throughout Britain
As was pointed out steverdores, dockers and longshoremen went the way of the dodo. The real story:Here(!Off the Waterfront: The long-run impact of technological change on ...
https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/polopoly_fs/1.679168!/file/2014_D2_2_Upward.pd.)

There never was a golden age . Old industries die, other modes of employment arise.
It is driven by economics and innovation. But discussing economics with the left is as productive as discussing metaphysics with a fruitfly.
Corbyn well recognises the problem:
Sep 26, 2017 - The Labour leader says it's right to be carrying out "war games" planning for government. ... suggested that there could be a run on the pound if Labour went into government. ...

This is a far more plausible scenario than wargaming troops on the streets after brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 04:56 AM

"That rats like Dyson start deserting the sinking ship gives the impression that some of them have a good idea"

Do you have any evidence to prove Mr Dyson is changing his tax domicile, or are you merely hurling insults at the man, who has tripled his U.K. team over the past five years and currently employs 3,500 people in the country, half of which are engineers and scientists.

I suggest you either prove your statement or retract publicly your slur on a man who paid 127.8 million to the Revenue last year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 05:05 AM

Not to anybody in particular
Interesting to see that a future excuse for when Brexit sends what is left of British in industry crashing into smithereens will be that we never had one worth talking about anyway
Patriots - who'd have 'em !!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 05:36 AM

"Patriots - who'd have 'em !!"

I'm a firm believer in Samuel Johnson's theory of 'patriotism'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 05:50 AM

"Boswell tells us that Samuel Johnson made this famous pronouncement that patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel on the evening of April 7, 1775. He doesn't provide any context for how the remark arose, so we don't really know for sure what was on Johnson's mind at the time. However, Boswell assures us that Johnson was not indicting patriotism in general, only false patriotism.”

However:We, the People, recognize that we have responsibilities as well as rights; that our destinies are bound together; that a freedom which only asks what's in it for me, a freedom without a commitment to others, a freedom without love or charity or duty or patriotism, is unworthy of our founding ideals, and those who died in their defense. Barack Obama


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 06:48 AM

"I'm a firm believer in Samuel Johnson's theory of 'patriotism'."
Me too
We appear to be dealing with someone who believes that being patriotic means earning enough out of a country to have to pay £127.8 million per annum to the Revenue making a bomb out of EU subsidies for his farming enterprises, backing Brexit to the point of donating £12m, saying a "no deal" leave will "make no difference" and then pissing off from Britain when he realises that the policy he firmly supported and financed will rebound on him financially
'Rule Britannia every time - until the going gets tough
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 07:18 AM

SEEMS LIKE DYSON ISN'T THE ONLY SCURRYING RAT

Even the leading political Brexireers
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-john-redwood-tory-mp-investors-withdraw-money-uk-economy-city-london-eu-a8056771.html

Brexit is an investment to some
https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/02/08/2198570/jacob-rees-moggs-huge-personal-windfall-after-brexit/

True patriots all
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 07:23 AM

Well excuse me but I've always paid every single penny of all the tax I ever owed but all I bloody get on this forum is slagged off!

Odd chap, this Dyson. He campaigned and whinged and threatened the government when they wouldn't join the euro. Now he's somehow become an ardent brexiteer and his pronouncements and actions simply enable the confidence to be sapped from this country. With him we can't win, can we?

I'd also, as an aside, say this about him and his stuff. I've had his bloody hoovers, big beasts, cordless and hand-held, ever since they came out. When they work they're great, they really are, but give me a couple of hours and I'll tell you what's wrong with them. They jam, block, clog up, make a horrible whining noise (a bit like Sir Jim), spit out what they've just sucked up because the little flap doesn't work and the hoses last six months if you so much as dare to use them for the purpose for which they are supposedly intended. Emptying them unavoidably involves inevitable lung cancer. And the motors burn out and the allegedly washable filters are unfit for purpose. As for those hand-dryers in public bogs, it's an art in itself using them without touching the sides, and there's a puddle of slime, snot and at least one pubic hair in that nasty little trough at the bottom, so not too deep now, lads!

But his triumph came when he decided to give an unconditional five-year parts and labour warranty on his gear. Believe me, you need it and will invoke it often. That was his business coup de grace!

Finally, I'd say that any bloke who has accrued personal wealth of four and a half billion quid in a couple of decades making hoovers is ripping us off. If you don't believe me, look in the shops and admire the eye-watering prices of his stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 07:24 AM

DEFINITELY AN INVESTMENT TACTIC
Jaysus - they really did see the British people coming, didn't they ?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 07:26 AM

"
DEFINITELY AN INVESTMENT TACTIC
"
There-there !!
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 07:26 AM

Aaaaahh-yup to all of that Steve.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 07:29 AM

Never trust a man whose parents couldn't spell 'Aaron'. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 07:33 AM

Well excuse me but I've always paid every single penny of all the tax I ever owed but all I bloody get on this forum is slagged off!

Odd chap, this Dyson. He campaigned and whinged and threatened the government when they wouldn't join the euro. Now he's somehow become an ardent brexiteer and his pronouncements and actions simply enable the confidence to be sapped from this country. With him we can't win, can we?

I'd also, as an aside, say this about him and his stuff. I've had his bloody hoovers, big beasts, cordless and hand-held, ever since they came out. When they work they're great, they really are, but give me a couple of hours and I'll tell you what's wrong with them. They jam, block, clog up, make a horrible whining noise (a bit like Sir Jim), spit out what they've just sucked up because the little flap doesn't work and the hoses last six months if you so much as dare to use them for the purpose for which they are supposedly intended. Emptying them unavoidably involves inevitable lung cancer, and you'll spend a pleasant ten minutes finding something with which to dig out the compacted fluff from a thousand little holes - if you can actually manage to dismantle the drum sufficiently to get at the fluff, that is. And the motors burn out and the allegedly washable filters are unfit for purpose. As for those hand-dryers in public bogs, it's an art in itself using them without touching the sides, and there's a puddle of slime, snot and at least one pubic hair in that nasty little trough at the bottom, so not too deep now, lads!

But his triumph came when he decided to give an unconditional five-year parts and labour warranty on his gear. Believe me, you need it and will invoke it often. That was his business coup de grace!

Finally, I'd say that any bloke who has accrued personal wealth of four and a half billion quid in a couple of decades making hoovers is ripping us off. If you don't believe me, look in the shops and admire the eye-watering prices of his stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 07:35 AM

Dammit, I thought that hadn't taken! Leave it, mods - I embellished it a bit second time round!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 08:02 AM

Still no proof of Dyson's change of tax domicile, yet Sir Jim still continues to lie about the man. What a surprise!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 08:21 AM

"Finally, I'd say that any bloke who has accrued personal wealth of four and a half billion quid in a couple of decades making hoovers is ripping us off. If you don't believe me, look in the shops and admire the eye-watering prices of his stuff."

A typical ignorant leftard comment based on fliff, fluff and flimflam, that seems suspiciously like the politics of envy.

Dyson has mastered the noble art of manufacturing successful widgets.
He designed the Rotork Seatruck at age 23. It is a very useful mini landing craft that I have used in Gabon.

Greatest Inventions of Dyson
His personal wealth more than demonstrate that his widgets keep him solvent.

How he prices his goods is a matter for him but follows well trodden ground


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 08:25 AM

On the BBC News app at the moment....

"A no-deal Brexit threatens the UK's food security and will lead to higher prices and empty shelves, retailers are preparing to warn MPs.
M&S, Sainsbury's and Waitrose are among those warning stockpiling fresh food is impossible and that the UK is very reliant on the EU for produce.
The warning comes in a letter from the British Retail Consortium and is signed by the main food retailers.
It comes ahead of crucial votes in Parliament tomorrow.
The letter, seen by the BBC, uses the government's own estimate that freight through Calais may fall 87% from current levels, threatening the availability and shelf life of many products.
The letter expresses worry over tariffs, with only 10% of the UK's food imports currently subject to World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules.
If the UK were to revert to WTO rules, the retailers warn that would "greatly increase import costs that would in turn put upward pressure on food prices".
The other signatories to the letter include the chief executives of KFC, Co-Op, and Lidl.
The letter spells out the UK's food relationship with Europe, with nearly one third of the food in the UK coming from the EU.
"In March, the situation becomes more acute as UK produce is out of season," the letter says.
At that time of year, 90% of lettuces, 80% of tomatoes and 70% of soft fruit sold in the UK is grown in the EU, the letter says.
No more room to stockpile
"As this produce is fresh and perishable, it needs to be moved quickly from farms to our stores," the retailers say.
Retailers have been reluctant to intervene in the Brexit debate but are doing so now as the UK's departure date from the EU approaches.
Their letter says that stockpiling fresh food is impossible and that the complex, 'just in time' supply chain through which food is imported into the UK will be "significantly disrupted" in the event of a no-deal Brexit.
It adds it is difficult to stockpile any more produce as "all frozen and chilled storage is already been used".
"While we have been working closely with our suppliers on contingency plans, it is not possible to mitigate all the risks to our supply chains and we fear significant disruption as a result if there is no Brexit deal," the retailers say in the letter to MPs."

I don't remember seeing that on the side of that bloody bus!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 08:29 AM

I'm off to Waitrose to stockpile baked beans and air freshener.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 08:57 AM

What sucks even more than a Dyson? Support for Brexit from a direction you might not have expected:

The Communist Party


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 09:03 AM

"I'm off to Waitrose to stockpile baked beans and air freshener."
Don't forget to call into Boots for the medicines you might not be able to get
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 09:03 AM

Not to anybody in particular
Interesting to see that a future excuse for when Brexit sends what is left of British in industry crashing into smithereens will be that we never had one worth talking about anyway
Patriots - who'd have 'em !!


I cannot make any sense of what you are trying to say.

It is a real education to see that those that protest the most have zero clue as to the difference between a Dyson the man and Dyson Ltd(a company)
Never has such confusion been displayed by so few.

In January 2019 it was announced that Dyson would move its headquarters to Singapore to ramp up manufacturing for their electric vehicle, stating Asia trade will be their main focus and commenting that the company was unhappy with EU/UK bureaucratic restrictions.

You really must learn to post accurately, otherwise your credibility goes pfffffff!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 09:08 AM

I am fairly sure I read that Rees-Mogg joked at the Bruges group speech that someone had thrust a leaflet into his hand which he found "sound on Brexit" and then discovered it was from the Communist party.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 10:04 AM

An interesting analysis:


https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/what-will-happen-to-the-tory-traitors/

and the EU's useful idiots. Do they not realize that EU tax harmonization will create a wasteland where the multinationals once were? That will be their payment!

https://order-order.com/2019/01/28/irish-government-accused-weaponising-good-friday-agreement/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 10:16 AM

I suspect that the Brexiteers on here will tell us that the warning issued by retailers Sainburys, Asda, M & S, Co-op and Waitrose of expected shortages post Brexit to the Government are all part of Project Fear or that we cannot trust their predictions.

Could someone please link to the article in todays Guardian.

If the Brexiteers do not respond as I have suggested I have no doubt they will ignore this post completely.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 10:17 AM

Isn't it fascinating that someone who considers it anti-British to attack elected British members of parliament rant on about politicians of hiss own party and refers to the ones he doesn't agree with as "traitors"
Never understood this patriotism thing


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 10:33 AM

Guardian article on retailers' warning


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 10:38 AM

Thanks DMcG


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 11:51 AM

There was talk of what Samuel Johnson thought of patriotism. Here some extracts from his pamphlet The Patriot:

A man sometimes starts up a patriot, only by disseminating discontent, and propagating reports of secret influence, of dangerous counsels, of violated rights, and encroaching usurpation.

   This practice is no certain note of patriotism. To instigate the populace with rage beyond the provocation, is to suspend publick happiness, if not to destroy it. He is no lover of his country, that unnecessarily disturbs its peace. Few errours and few faults of government, can justify an appeal to the rabble; who ought not to judge of what they cannot understand, and whose opinions are not propagated by reason, but caught by contagion

   ...
   
   But all this may be done in appearance, without real patriotism. He that raises false hopes to serve a present purpose, only makes a way for disappointment and discontent. He who promises to endeavour, what he knows his endeavours unable to effect, means only to delude his followers by an empty clamour of ineffectual zeal.
   A true patriot is no lavish promiser: he undertakes not to shorten parliaments; to repeal laws; or to change the mode of representation, transmitted by our ancestors; he knows that futurity is not in his power, and that all times are not alike favourable to change.
   Much less does he make a vague and indefinite promise of obeying the mandates of his constituents. He knows the prejudices of faction, and the inconstancy of the multitude. He would first inquire, how the opinion of his constituents shall be taken. Popular instructions are, commonly, the work, not of the wise and steady, but the violent and rash; meetings held for directing representatives are seldom attended but by the idle and the dissolute; and he is not without suspicion, that of his constituents, as of other numbers of men, the smaller part may often be the wiser.
   He considers himself as deputed to promote the publick good, and to preserve his constituents, with the rest of his countrymen, not only from being hurt by others, but from hurting themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 12:19 PM

Sounds like a perfect description of the Brexshiteers, and a bloody good reason to kick them, and their insane BrexShit notions into touch.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 12:37 PM

"Sounds like a perfect description of the Brexshiteers,"
There's a nice leter in the Irsih Times this morning describing new terms that have sprung since the referendum - I was quite taken by "Brexcrement"
Someone must be reading your postings Baccie !!
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 01:06 PM

BBC news has just reported than a number of major food manufacturers have predicted that supermarket shelves could be left empty if Birtain crashes out of the E.U.
One brave Brexiteer interviewed told the reporter - "it wont do us any harm to do without for once"
You really couldn't make this up
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: mayomick
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 01:27 PM

The date will have to be put back according to a Daily Mirror article from 23 Jan under the headline :
“Brexit has already been cancelled - and here's why they're not telling you”

There just won’t be enough parliamentary time to conclude the bills that need to be passed before March 29 .
“Of the 14 new bills required for Brexit - on things like animal welfare, money laundering and haulage - just 5 have been passed since the referendum.
Of the 9 remaining, the one closest to being finished is the Trade Bill - and the House of Lords just voted to shelve it because it lacked detail.”
That defeat in the Lords means that Britain is now unable to move to World Trade Organisation rules in the event of a no deal Brexit.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-already-been-cancelled-heres-13896286


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 02:47 PM

If we believed everything we read in the Daily Mirror we would be in a very sad way. Most educated people regard it as a comic, along with the guardian, apart from teachers who like freebies.

Isn't it fascinating that someone who considers it anti-British to attack elected British members of parliament rant on about politicians of hiss own party and refers to the ones he doesn't agree with as "traitors"
Never understood this patriotism thing


It is in fine company then and joins a host of other things you do not understand. By the way are you going to substantiate your statement about Dyson moving his tax domicile, or apologize for using terminological inexactitudes? We await your response with interest!
This is twice I have asked now!

Let me explain who the traitors are.
MPs have voted by a majority of 384 to allow Prime Minister Theresa May to get Brexit negotiations under way.

They backed the government's European Union Bill, supported by the Labour leadership, by 498 votes to 114.

But the SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Liberal Democrats opposed the bill, while 47 Labour MPs and Tory ex-chancellor Ken Clarke rebelled.

Several months later there was a general election. Did any Tory MPs voice an objection to brexit or inform their electorate they would betray them 5 minutes later. The answer is: No they did not. Ensuring the security of their sinecure was of more importance to them than being honest to their electorate. Those are the facts and those facts lead a rational person to only one conclusiuon. Betrayal!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 03:06 PM

Eeeeh. Isn't this fun. Keep it up lads ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 03:07 PM

I see that the government is backing the Brady amendment, the one about revising tbe backstop. I can't see how this is going to move us on. The backstop can neither be removed nor time-limited, nor should it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 03:22 PM

It seems to rely entirely on the assumption that the EU will back down. Seems unlikely to me. So then she would have to bring back version A again, more or less. Unless the amendments of Cooper and Grieve are in play, who can even guess what would happen then.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 03:23 PM

I heard briefly on the news tonight that tomatoes would rise by 28% post a no deal Brexit and imported Cheddar cheese by 40%.

Now for myself I couldn't give a monkeys, a hiatus hernia means I cannot eat tomatoes and a lactose intolerance means I cannot eat cheese.

However unlike some posters on here I really do care about my fellow human being so I am appalled that such a situation, which is easily avoidable, is even being considered.

Now I know that in the great scheme of things these are "minor" considerations but not to those with limited incomes.

I do notice that our resident Brexiteers have yet to respond to my earlier post.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 04:07 PM

making a bomb out of EU subsidies for his farming enterprises,

Fact: Billionaire Brexit backer Sir James Dyson's farming business was the biggest private recipient of EU basic payments in the UK in 2016, receiving £1.6 million.

Currently, the lion's share of the UK's £3 billion in subsidies from the EU goes to basic payments linked to land area, with some environmental requirements, while a proportion is paid to environmentally friendly farming and other schemes.

New Environment Secretary (Friday 30 June 2017 08:23) Michael Gove has said Brexit is a chance to get rid of bureaucracy and design a better system of supporting farmers that could better protect and enhance the environment.

Sounds a win win to me!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 05:28 PM

Mature cheddar doesn't contain lactose, Raggytash. Enjoy!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 07:12 PM

Gove's "better system" actually involves the phasing out of almost all the subsidies, almost all of which in turn comes from the CAP, within seven years. Farmers were mainly leave voters. They are soon to find out that they were the ultimate turkeys voting for Christmas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 19 - 08:22 PM

"No wonder farmers fear the Brexit wolf in sheep’s clothing"

Google that to read some stuff that should trouble farmers. Of course, farming helps to make the countryside what it is, and it's not bad despite some hooliganistic practices such as planting maize on slopes, drenching crops with neonicotinoids and planting miscanthus on land that could grow food. But farming, in pure money terms, is bad value. It produces well under one percent of our GDP and receives billions in subsidies. Once we leave the EU the severely weakened economy will ensure that farming comes low in the list of priorities for propping up, what with education, social care and the NHS also under severe strain. We've been promised many things by brexiteers that haven't got a cat in hell's chance of coming about. Subsidies for farmers are utterly stuffed, and Gove's promises aren't worth tbe paper they're written on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 02:06 AM

Gove is, I suppose, right that a hard Brexit gives us a chance to design a better system. But having the chance to do something and actually doing it are very different things. The government track record of designing systems to replace others that are actually improvements is lamentable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 03:19 AM

NP WONDER FARMERS FEAR THE BREXIT WOLF

"If we believed everything we read in the Daily Mirror we would be in a very sad way."
MY HERO - AN HONEST ALTERNATIVE !!!

Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 03:35 AM

No surprises there then, Jim.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 04:09 AM

It really is time this 'fake news' denial is left to the White House and people who want to be part of this discussion come up with real arguments instead of meaningless reliable star bloggers
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 04:25 AM

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/guido-fawkes/

So the heroic guido is to the right politically. What a clever lad to point that out! Hardly likely we, the educated, were unaware of the fact.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the%20guardian/

The Loony Left
The thoughts of Churchill on the subject:
“The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.”
and even more perspicuous
“Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy.”

Abraham Lincoln to the Workingmen’s Association of New York

‘Property is the fruit of labor; property is desirable; it is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise’”

You should adopt Dyson as a role model but no doubt the only way to eradicate the dangerous indoctrination of the left is by a complete brain transplant! Then you can all become embryonic little capitalists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 04:38 AM

No additional domestic agricultural subsidies should be made on top of those already in place. CAP subsidies must not be replaced until shut time there is a net positive revenue on so called savings on EU contributions after additional NHS funding has been prioritised. If it means evicting wealthy land ownwers and handing the farms into common ownership, so be it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 04:49 AM

DMcG Few errors and few faults of government, can justify an appeal to the rabble; who ought not to judge of what they cannot understand, and whose opinions are not propagated by reason, but caught by contagion

The participants on the winning side of the French Revolution   obviously disagreed, as also the American revolutionaries.

It really is time this 'fake news' denial is left to the White House and people who want to be part of this discussion come up with real arguments instead of meaningless reliable star bloggers
I quite agree, you should be ashamed of yourselves quoting project fear projections. They are all froth and hyperbole

You may not like the way he says it but you have yet to itemize any lies by the font of all good news Mr Guido!
Bias is intrinsic in any news report. Most of us learnt this basic fact decades ago, apart from ardent gruniardistas. But we all know.They are best ignored.

https://order-order.com/2019/01/29/malthouse-compromise-leavers-remainers-unite-behind-brexit-plan-c/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 29 Jan 19 - 04:54 AM

we just got back from a few days in dublin - very pleasant city. we had exceptionally good service in the hotel, bars and restaurants from friendly workers from all over europe. a positive atmosphere all round. we got off the plane in glasgow and with no passport checks were on the motorway down to cumbria in 15 minutes. very sad that a proportion of our population think this sort of experience is worth nothing and that we should be doing our best to reject it. .