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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Steve Shaw 11 Oct 19 - 11:58 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Oct 19 - 05:31 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Oct 19 - 04:37 AM
DMcG 11 Oct 19 - 02:30 AM
DMcG 11 Oct 19 - 02:24 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Oct 19 - 09:20 PM
Raggytash 10 Oct 19 - 02:55 PM
Raggytash 10 Oct 19 - 12:58 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Oct 19 - 08:25 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Oct 19 - 08:31 PM
Nigel Parsons 09 Oct 19 - 07:28 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Oct 19 - 07:10 PM
Nigel Parsons 09 Oct 19 - 06:47 PM
Iains 09 Oct 19 - 05:21 PM
Raggytash 09 Oct 19 - 03:45 PM
DMcG 09 Oct 19 - 03:24 PM
Raggytash 09 Oct 19 - 03:13 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Oct 19 - 02:50 PM
peteaberdeen 09 Oct 19 - 02:41 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Oct 19 - 01:41 PM
DMcG 09 Oct 19 - 01:08 PM
Raggytash 09 Oct 19 - 12:16 PM
Raggytash 09 Oct 19 - 12:15 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Oct 19 - 12:10 PM
Raggytash 09 Oct 19 - 12:05 PM
Jim Carroll 08 Oct 19 - 10:11 AM
DMcG 08 Oct 19 - 09:39 AM
DMcG 08 Oct 19 - 09:36 AM
Iains 08 Oct 19 - 07:49 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Oct 19 - 07:19 AM
Iains 08 Oct 19 - 06:08 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Oct 19 - 06:45 PM
Raggytash 07 Oct 19 - 04:28 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Oct 19 - 03:36 PM
Raggytash 07 Oct 19 - 03:19 PM
Iains 07 Oct 19 - 04:25 AM
DMcG 07 Oct 19 - 03:34 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Oct 19 - 10:20 AM
Dave the Gnome 06 Oct 19 - 06:33 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Oct 19 - 06:27 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Oct 19 - 06:09 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Oct 19 - 06:09 AM
DMcG 06 Oct 19 - 03:17 AM
Iains 05 Oct 19 - 09:01 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Oct 19 - 03:23 PM
Iains 04 Oct 19 - 02:29 PM
Iains 04 Oct 19 - 02:26 PM
DMcG 04 Oct 19 - 02:03 PM
Mossback 04 Oct 19 - 01:42 PM
Jim Carroll 04 Oct 19 - 01:38 PM
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Subject: RE: climate - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 11:58 AM

Rupert Read of Extinction Rebellion was excellent on Question Time last night, measured, reasonable and articulate, in complete contrast with the dreadful and disreputable Julia Hartley-Brewer, who appears to be a climate-change denier of the I'm-proud-of-my-pig-ignorance school of non-thought, and the waffly archetypally-smug Toryboy Grant Crapps...oops, Schapps...

(Off-topic but same programme, I must say that Theo Paphitis, who I can't stand, was amazingly honest and balanced on brexit, saying that he wanted the public to have another say in the light of what we've learned in the last three years and saying it in a most forceful and lucid manner. And he was a leaver!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 05:31 AM

Looks like Dyson's electric car might have become
ANOTHER BREXIT CASUALTY
A case of another Brexiteer biting his own bum
Florence Nightingale would have had her hands full with all these walking wounded
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 04:37 AM

It will be interesting to se which way Varadkar jumps - I hope his efforts are no more than an effort to be fair - but he IS a POLITICIAN and cannot be entirely trusted
Ireland cannot accept anything less than a guarantee there can never be a border - for economic and for peace reasons
Ha cannot accept the promises of a serial liar like Johnson (he has the examples of many other British politicians, past and present for him to know that)
Ireland has been hit just as Britain has, economically and socially, by this death-wish vote - throwing a return of violence into the mix would be a total betrayal of the Irish people - and the Brits who stand to have a repeat of what happened in Glasgow if the Troubles flare up again
We have an National election coming up in the the near future - I hope Leo the Lion doesn't become a 'Leo the Lyin' and forget that
I've noticed that the Irish people tend to give a little more thought to where they put their crosses than their counterparts back home do
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 02:30 AM

To put it another way, Johnson's side got him to present a proposal to the EU they could not possibly accept. I suspect the EU have got him to present a proposal to Parliament they cannot accept.

But if Labour can be cast as the ones refusing to accept it, that suits the PM very nicely, even if a substantial proportion of Conservatives can't accept it either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 02:24 AM

Much talk of the 'pathway'in the papers. Well, I have been wrong before and no doubt will be in the future, but I don't see it. The FT talks of NI staying in the EU, which is indeed a pathway, but how he gets that through Parliament is hard to see. Then there is the fact that Johnson's team have dropped all the agreements about protecting the environment and workers rights, so Labour and the Greens (and others) won't support that.

I suspect it is more blame management than progress.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 09:20 PM

That's exactly right. And it's exactly why leavers can't stomach the thought of a confirmatory vote. It's nothing to do with the fictitious "will of the people" or the sham democracy of that referendum in 2016. It's because they know they'd lose. If they thought they'd win, they'd be pushing for it like mad. Brexiteers are either racist, ignorant or feeble-minded. And they are terribly shallow, and they have no idea what democracy actually means. I'm not taking prisoners on this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 02:55 PM

I've been considering the report of yesterday that most polls in the past three years indicate that there has been a switch in the population which would now favour remaining in the EU.

If this is correct it would lead me to believe that a minority favour the option of leaving.

Thus in a democratic society we will be allowing a minority to take us to a disasterous future.

If democracy and the will of the people is so important surely we should remain in the EU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 12:58 PM

Thank you Nigel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 08:25 AM

I wonder if Saturday's Parliementary meeting will discuss Johnson's betrayal of the climate change agreement in order to suck up to the madman who is the cause of our now watching the Kurds being murdered because of America's betrayal of their Allies ("because they didn't support us at Normandy")

JOHNSON'S SELL-OUT - OFFICIAL
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 08:31 PM

"Barmy"
ONE OF THE MOST SERIOUS DECISIONS EVER TAKEN BY BRITAIN
WORLD LEADER DENIES WHAT IS IN FRONT OF HIM
Yeah, well!!!!
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 07:28 PM

Why "tread carefully"?
I just liked the idea that the EU politician was being named 'Barmier', or 'more barmy'.
From the Collins dictionary:
Barmy:
Word forms: comparative barmier , superlative barmiest
adjective
If you say that someone or something is barmy, you mean that they are slightly crazy or very foolish.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 07:10 PM

Care to explain why you like that, Nigel? Tread carefully now...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 06:47 PM

Guardian
This should be the one Raggytash wants.

Although I do like his typo of "Michael Barmier" for "Michel Barnier"


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 05:21 PM

I think the link below on the conniving Bercow is far more important.
He clearly demonstrates he is no longer impartial and should be replaced immediately
(From Guido,of course)

https://order-order.com/2019/10/09/eu-president-bercow-working-block-no-deal/


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 03:45 PM

There are further very strong words from Guy Verhofstadt, basically indicating despite Johnson's calling everyone else traitors, collaborators, and surrenderers there is in fact only one traitor and that is the person who risks bringing disaster on the country, it's economy andit's citizens by pushing the UK out of the EU.

Strong words indeed.

Could someone please link to the article in today Guardian " Michael Barmier calls on Boris Johnson to rein in No 10 Aides"


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 03:24 PM

Another interesting comment from the EU Parliament:


Guy Verhofstadt: "I can't understand why there are 20 or so Labour MPs" saying they'll vote for Johnson's proposals "That should be contrary to all the things Labour has defended in the past”. Says that it rips up environmental, social and labour standard protections May’s had.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 03:13 PM

That's the one DMcG Thank you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 02:50 PM

So there'll be more jiggerypokery a week on Saturday in the Commons. Johnson will put forward some motions that he'll lose so that he can then blame everybody but himself for the fiasco. He won't get no-deal through, of course, but there will be no decision for another referendum or revoke either. Too many MPs watching their arses for that. The plotting in Number Ten will be thickening for the next week. It's going to be a long week. One thing that won't be to the fore will be the best interests of the country. Which is, undeniably, to stay in the EU. Let's just remember, during the coming blame game, that there was no groundswell for leaving the EU before that bloody referendum and that the brexit fiasco is one hundred percent a Tory brexit fiasco.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 02:41 PM

'now that we've seen that appalling leave ad can we all stop being so bloody liberal and having to pretend that they aren't just a bunch of ignorant, racist shits?' - charlie higson. me too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 01:41 PM

Sorry - thought I had
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 01:08 PM

This 'Evening Standard" article?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 12:16 PM

4000 by the way


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 12:15 PM

Could someone please link to the article in the Evening Standard.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 12:10 PM


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 12:05 PM

Interesting Snippet. A YouGov analysis of 300 surveys shows firm evidence that Britain has turned away from Brexit since 2016 according to a report by Nicholas Cecil in the Evening Standard.

"One of the most striking findings is that 204 out of 226 since July 2017 have shown Remain ahead with just seven for leave and 15 ties."

"So far this year, just one poll has put leave ahead compared with 74 for staying in the EU"

Interesting indeed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Oct 19 - 10:11 AM

It seems betrayal has become a commy trait of those most ready to use the terms "betrayal" and "traitor" Johnson's Junta ahe happily betraying the fishing and Farming industry in Britain and Trump is selling out the Kurds in Syria
I'm not sure they're not the same individual holding down two jobs

FECKED IF I CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Oct 19 - 09:39 AM

Ah, I screwed up the fishing link. Try again


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Oct 19 - 09:36 AM



Unhappy farmers

Two groups that it is often claimed were very pro Brexit...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Oct 19 - 07:49 AM

I wonder what part of ad hominem little jimmie cannot understand.
Talk about flogging a dead horse


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Oct 19 - 07:19 AM

""Boris, did you have an affair with Jennifer?"
This really does ssom to have struck a raw nerve with the Boris Bumcrawlers anxious to sew it under the carpet, doesn't it ?
Lovely cartoon in this morning Times of Herr Johnson's Pole dancer, clinging to his rapidly growing upturned nose as if it is one of her phallic props
Lurvely

Nic to see both of the world's top madman in deep trouble - Boris for paying for sex with Londoners' taxes and Trump having to turn over his tax returns - two for the price of one
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-pole-dancing-pal-20324827
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Oct 19 - 06:08 AM

Why not talk about brexit?
Attempted Character Assassination of Boris merely increases his support base. What he does in his private life is his affair.
More pathetic ad hominem attacks by remainiacs.
How about giving us a list of benefits of staying in the EU:
1)United states of Europe?
2)Parliament reduced to a franking machine?
3)Repeated referendums,until the right result is obtained e.g. Ireland
4)Attempted territorial claims on northern Ireland and Gibralter
5)A common foreign policy
6)etc.etc


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Oct 19 - 06:45 PM

"Jennifer, did you have an affair with Boris?"

"Not tellin'. Ask me something different..."

"Jennifer, did you or did you not have an affair with Boris?"

"Ain't sayin'. Though I did go to his flat five...or was it ten...times..."

Jennifer, it looks like you had an affair with Boris and that it did you no harm (to say the least). Anything to say?"

"It's beneath my dignity to answer..."

.....................................................................................................................

Thing is, Jennifer, you could just have said "no." But you didn't...

"Boris, did you have an affair with Jennifer?"

"Let's talk about schools, the police and the NHS..."


Let's not, Boris. Let's talk about corruption instead...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Oct 19 - 04:28 PM

Thank you Dave.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Oct 19 - 03:36 PM

There you go


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Oct 19 - 03:19 PM

A report in the Guardian gives the EU bullet point dismissal of the Governments "proposals" to solve the issue of the "backstop"

It would seem that the UK governments proposals were written on the back of a fag packet.

Could someone please link to the article "Revealed: the EU's point by point rejection of Johnson's Brexit plan."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Oct 19 - 04:25 AM

https://i1.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/xr-bj.gif?resize=540%2C382&ssl=1


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Oct 19 - 03:34 AM

Things are quiet on the thread at the moment, so here's one way that Johnson could resolve the conflict between obeying the Benn bill and leaving on 31st October.

1. He writes the letter (making plain he is under duress, probably)

2. He persuades the EU to offer any other date for the extension than the default in the bill. Doesn't matter what.

3. Obeying the bill, he has to bring the changed date back for parliamentary approval

4. ..And gets the house to reject that date. Then he is free to 'no-deal' having obeyed the law at all points.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 10:20 AM

"Invented by left wing opponents? No, his Tory colleagues!"
Like the female ones who say they wouldn't trust him to drive them home at night
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 06:33 AM

Best nickname for BoJo. The greased albino piglet :-)

Invented by left wing opponents? No, his Tory colleagues!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 06:27 AM

THOUGHT I'D SHARE THIS
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 06:09 AM

Been slow


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 06:09 AM

I wouldn't worry too much about that, DMcG. He was written off last time, derided for seven weeks of an election campaign by sneery Tories and almost all the media, was going to hand the Tories a majority 140 seats, etc, then went on to effectively nobble the complacent Theresa May by removing her majority. Europe always takes Tory scalps and I see no reason to think it'll be any different this time.

Interesting Moral Maze on Radio 4 last night. They were discussing for part of the programme the anger surrounding brexit. Well, before the referendum there was no anger about the EU, just the usual low-key rumblings from little-England ne'er-do-wells. All the anger started to be whipped up in a disreputable referendum campaign, thereafter compounded by three years of squabbling after an extremely divisive result. The anger may have been an unintended consequence initially, but brexiteer politicians have not be slow to keep pouring petrol on the flames.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 03:17 AM


Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn addressed a crowd of thousands of Labour supporters at Newcastle City Hall on Saturday night



No one should read too much into a single event, and these are largely party members, but this suggests claims that Corbyn has been rejected by the voters may be premature.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 05 Oct 19 - 09:01 AM

it's good to have the opportunity to remind people


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Oct 19 - 03:23 PM

THIS WON BREXIT
THIS WAS THE IMMEDIATE RESULT
THIS WAS THE WARNING
THIS IS HOW IT IS STILL HAPPENING

That was to nobody in particular but it's good to have the opportunity to remind people - lest they forget
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 04 Oct 19 - 02:29 PM

That should of course been Rory Stewert, not Rod. It is very bad form to confuse a singer with a clown.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 04 Oct 19 - 02:26 PM

Brexit was decided by asking a people to b=vote on something without being given a game plan for the future or being kept up to date with the possible and now obvious consequences - that is how Populism works

The referendum was a binary decision. In or out.
It actually has absolutely nothing to do with populism. I explained this carefully earlier today but like so many of my posts it was deleted.
I am not going to waste my time explaining it again.

If Mps think they can can totally ignore their electorate, it is hardly surprising the electorate feel disregarded.
The originator of this novel concept, Burke, found that when he presented the good burghers of Bristol with this outrageous idea they promptly told him to get on his bike.

This will be brought home to a number of MPs with a vengeance when they finally have to succumb to a general election. They will find playing their electorate for fools has only one outcome. As Roddy Stewert would have found out. But he jumped before he was pushed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Oct 19 - 02:03 PM

Liz Truss, the international trade secretary, said scrapping the protections was "vital for giving us the freedom and flexibility to strike new trade deals and become more competitive"

I wonder who will be the first to insist that scrapping the protections is what 17.4 million demanded?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mossback
Date: 04 Oct 19 - 01:42 PM

He who sups with the devil should have a long spoon ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Oct 19 - 01:38 PM

I'm appalled having just escaped the worst of Huricane Lorenzo - Donegal wasn't so lucky)
This seems to be par for the course for dealing with Trump
Hope nobody mentions The Isle of Wight in his presence !
Jim Carroll


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