mudcat.org: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] [50] [51] [52] [53] [54] [55] [56] [57] [58] [59] [60]


BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Iains 24 Mar 19 - 06:24 AM
Steve Shaw 24 Mar 19 - 06:05 AM
Jim Carroll 24 Mar 19 - 05:42 AM
KarenH 24 Mar 19 - 05:22 AM
Iains 24 Mar 19 - 05:03 AM
Iains 24 Mar 19 - 04:42 AM
DMcG 24 Mar 19 - 04:41 AM
KarenH 24 Mar 19 - 04:30 AM
DMcG 24 Mar 19 - 04:22 AM
DMcG 24 Mar 19 - 04:11 AM
Stanron 24 Mar 19 - 03:21 AM
Backwoodsman 24 Mar 19 - 02:53 AM
DMcG 23 Mar 19 - 02:04 PM
Iains 23 Mar 19 - 09:03 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Mar 19 - 08:19 AM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 07:40 AM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 07:37 AM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 07:30 AM
Iains 23 Mar 19 - 07:01 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Mar 19 - 05:59 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Mar 19 - 05:32 AM
DMcG 23 Mar 19 - 04:52 AM
Iains 23 Mar 19 - 03:38 AM
DMcG 23 Mar 19 - 02:20 AM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 01:02 AM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 12:38 AM
KarenH 23 Mar 19 - 12:25 AM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Mar 19 - 09:38 PM
DMcG 22 Mar 19 - 06:18 PM
SPB-Cooperator 22 Mar 19 - 05:26 PM
Iains 22 Mar 19 - 05:02 PM
DMcG 22 Mar 19 - 04:49 PM
Raggytash 22 Mar 19 - 04:28 PM
SPB-Cooperator 22 Mar 19 - 01:58 PM
Iains 22 Mar 19 - 09:21 AM
Iains 22 Mar 19 - 09:08 AM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Mar 19 - 08:04 AM
Backwoodsman 22 Mar 19 - 06:58 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 22 Mar 19 - 06:51 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Mar 19 - 06:26 AM
Donuel 22 Mar 19 - 05:55 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Mar 19 - 04:50 AM
Backwoodsman 22 Mar 19 - 04:11 AM
DMcG 22 Mar 19 - 03:52 AM
Dave the Gnome 22 Mar 19 - 03:29 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Mar 19 - 03:15 AM
DMcG 22 Mar 19 - 03:07 AM
Iains 22 Mar 19 - 03:01 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Mar 19 - 02:53 AM
KarenH 22 Mar 19 - 01:32 AM
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 06:24 AM

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/05/12/to-properly-explain-the-eus-bendy-bananas-rules-yes-theyre-real/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 06:05 AM

Squirrelling around desperately to find and ridicule examples of arcane EU "rules" (which are generally mythological in any case when examined a bit more closely) is something I thought we'd long ago got out of our systems. EU rules and regulations are generally arrived at by consensus, and the UK has accepted over 95% of them without demur. We've abstained on some of those 5% and opposed very few. You don't achieve agreement and harmony across 28 countries by trying to bring in silly rules. Now being made to import beef pumped up with hormones and chickens still riddled with Salmonella (due to lousy husbandry) even after being washed in chlorine, IS something to worry about.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 05:42 AM

Nice 'quote of the week' in this morning's Sunday Times
France's European Minister, Nathanlie Loieau, has said she's named her cat Brexit
"She wakes me up at night mewling that she wants to go out, but when I get up to open the door she stay's where she is"
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 05:22 AM

Bananas are classified by quality and size so they can be traded internationally. Quality standards are also needed so that people know what they are buying and that the produce meets their expectations.

Straight & bendy are not banned by the EU. Commission

Regulation 2257/94 identifies certain restrictions for fruits that producers have to conform to in order to sell their produce within the EU. The regulation states that bananas must be "free from malformation or abnormal curvature."

Class 1 bananas can have "slight defects of shape" and Class 2 bananas full-on "defects of shape".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 05:03 AM

" Regulation 1221/2008 took effect as of 1 July 2009. Though neither the press release cited above nor Regulation 1221/2008 made any mention of bananas or Regulation 2257/94, some reports of the changes treated them as including the banana quality standards regulation and contained explicit or apparent references to this regulation, using expressions such as "the infamous 'straight banana' ruling". Some sources have claimed this to be an admission that the original regulations did indeed ban "bent bananas", or that it was accepted that it was "a farce".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 04:42 AM

Bent bananas for example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Regulation_(EC)_No._2257/94


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 04:41 AM

Yes, that's right, Karen.   If we take vacuum cleaners as a example, the EU rules say they will only accept certain standards. If we wanted to sell to them, we have to meet those standards. But that is a decision of the individual business: make an EU-compatible version, an EU incompatible version, or both. As an EU member, it is possible the rules restricted what we could manufacture - I really don't know. Outside the EU, we could certainly manufacture both if we wished.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 04:30 AM

"If a given set of standards is acceptable to the EU and our businesses are set up to work to those standards, why not follow them until you come up with something you like better?"

My understanding is that unless lots of things meet EU standards you cannot sell them to the EU. So if the 'standards' you like better are lower standards you have to give up selling that product to the EU.

There were certainly objections to EU standards. I remember the BBC doing a programme about standards for vacuum cleaners which were supposed to forbid super powerful cleaners and they found some UK businesses which claimed they could not function as businesses without such super powerful cleaners. There was one story after another purporting to demonstrate the 'madness' of EU standards.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 04:22 AM

I should add that option (b) is the approach we have largely taken to leaving so far. The European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 brought a significant amount of EU law into UK law, so we have adopted it and once we leave we will continue follow it, but are free to change it at a later date. It is also what Teresa May is offering Labour - incorporate the current workers' rights etc into UK law, and as new EU laws are proposed the UK Parliament would consider whether to adopt them.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 04:11 AM

That's more a matter of definition that actuality, stanron. There are at least two other ways of leaving without following the WTO rules. The first has not been explicitly talked about as far as I know, but it is real and to some extent a few of the proposals are based on this.

a) You could leave and not choose to follow WTO rules.
Philosophically, if you object to the EU because you don't want to have rules set by a remote organisation whose democratic accountability you think very dubious, then it makes little sense to move to one which is even more remote and has no democratic accountability at all. But practically, the enforcement of WTO rules is ultimately set by a court and Trump is refusing to appoint the US representative to it. So in practice, the court cannot sit and the rules cannot be enforced. Some of the issues around Northern Ireland arise because of WTO rules. If you decided to ignore the rules it actually eases some of the problems.

So leaving and not following the WTO rules fully is undoubtedly a huge risk and potentially has great long term costs, but it is theoretically possible.

b) What was proposed during the referendum.
I expect everyone remembers the famous 'easiest deal in history' quotation. If you read the stuff around it, the idea was that initially the UK would follow the EU rules *voluntarily*, not by *legal obligation*, and then over time adapt them to something more in line with our wishes. If a given set of standards is acceptable to the EU and our businesses are set up to work to those standards, why not follow them until you come up with something you like better? There is some sense in this, and had it been possible to continue to trade with the EU on this basis, it would have been far better than the WTO rules. We were unable to negotiate the joint recognition of standards bodies this would need.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 03:21 AM

WTO rules is the only way of actually LEAVING the European Union. Every little bit of a deal we do ties us to the European Union and it's rules. The reason remainers talk of taking 'Crashing Out' off the table is because they do not want to leave at all and 'Crashing Out' is the only way to truly leave. You talk about leaver's lies but this is the biggest lie of all. Taking 'Crashing Out' off the table really means NOT leaving at all.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Mar 19 - 02:53 AM

The Praying Mantis's days look numbered according to news reports this morning. The suggestions as to who may take over from her however - her current effective-deputy, David Lidington, or The Lying Scottish Viper - look equally unattractive.

Failed former-Brexit minister, David Davis, also seems to be calling for a 'WTO Outcome' (A.K.A. 'No-deal crash-out'). From disaster to absolute disaster!

You really couldn't make this debacle up, could you? Still, on the plus side, at least by so debasing ourselves, we've given the EU27 a bloody good laugh.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 02:04 PM

I wasn't at the march, because I don't think a referendum is the best way out, either in terms of political stability or avoidance of manipulation. It the Revocation movement had started a week earlier, and the march has been more definitely about that, I would have.


But there were some good posters. My favourite was "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is starting to look a good idea."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 09:03 AM

But no response to the, British hard border. Now ain't that a surprise!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 08:19 AM

London streets jammed up with protesters demanding a second referendum
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 07:40 AM

Of course not all US citizens think alike, I should have made this clear.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 07:37 AM

It's partly I think to do with US dislike of European social models. They prefer tea parties and so on.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 07:30 AM

"Free trade" deal with the US? This is the protectionist Trump we are talking about. Even under Obama, who wasn't quite as bad, the terms of trade deals looked bleak, this was one reason some wanted to come out of the EU, the TTIP deal. Bad news for many decent domestic policies.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 07:01 AM

The US have now stated that there will be no free trade agreement if Britain opts for a hard border

Care to show us all where Britain has suggested a hard border? Is it your acute anglophobia showing or simply an inability to understand simple text?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 05:59 AM

Huh. Devon and Cornwall Police. Nicked two people for driving too slow after they nicked ME for driving too fast a couple of weeks ago. Make your minds up, plod! :-(


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 05:32 AM

More good news for the Brexit fiasco
The US have now stated that there will be no free trade agreement if Britain opts for a hard border
Chew on that one folks
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 04:52 AM

It is just possible, you know, that a person might care more about Parliament working to the rules of centuries than whether he or she gets a peerage.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 03:38 AM

Some good news from the brexit fiasco. The tories are going to break with centuries of tradition and field a candidate against the speaker come the next election. I suspect no peerage on his departure either! How sad!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 02:20 AM

One thing easily overlooked in that article, KarenH, is the numbers of drivers involved :

Devon and Cornwall Police said it had stopped the convoys on the A30 and M5 and prosecuted the two lead drivers of both convoys for careless and inconsiderate driving.

or again

he Nottinghamshire Brexit go slow protest along the M1 this evening - eight vehicles took part flanked by police cars

We all know how a single breakdown on a motorway can lead to very long tailbacks. So while the disruption may be very significant for any such action, it only takes a handful of people to cause it. Yet, because of the way media works, it is likely to get as much attention as today's march with hundreds of thousands of attendees.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 01:02 AM

To back up what I said about potential civil unrest, there are reports of tailbacks on motorways deliberately caused by Brexiters.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6840679/Furious-Brexiteers-cause-traffic-chaos-country-organise-lorries-block-motorways.html


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 12:38 AM

What got me about Theresa May's speech to the nation was her statement that she understood that 'I' was worried about the NHS and the state of schools. I am, but mainly because of the tax and welfare state and educational policies of her government.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 23 Mar 19 - 12:25 AM

@ SPB: I can see where you are coming from, but the problem with asking the people of the UK what they want is that they are divided, as the close referendum result shows. Not only that but EU sceptics are not an undivided set, and split on the basis of what they hope to get out of leaving. Here's hoping that your relationship survives whatever happens.

Some hoped (foolishly) for an end to the welfare state cutbacks imposed by this government funded by a reduction in EU paymentsm, whereas others don't much like the welfare state.

I should think that if the government seriously felt there was a chance of revoking Article 50 it would have plans to deal with social unrest caused by that, as suggestions have been made that this would cause some leavers to react.

I don't see any way to a happy ending at the moment.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 09:38 PM

The identity of the person who originates an online petition is not too significant. It's worth remembering that the biggest ever online petition in the UK back in 2016 was set up before the referendum was held. It called for a second referendum to give people a chance to think again, if the winning side failed to reach 60% in a turnout of 75%.

The petition got 4,150,260, even more than the Revoke Article 50 one (though with 3,885,883 already this could easily get more before it's through.

And the person who originated it? A leaver, one Oliver Healey. He set it up before the vote, on the assumption that the Brexit option would be rejected the first time through. In the event of course Leave left, though with only 52% of a turn out of only 72%. He complained that the petition had been hijacked after the referendum by leave voters, who shared what on the face of it was Mr Healey's understanding of how democracy should work.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 06:18 PM

Leave means Leave march

It is heartening, in its way, that "Leave"'s style of setting off and doing things with minimal planning has not deserted it. I particularly liked

On its second day, plans to cross the River Tees by the famous Transporter Bridge had to be abandoned when the group arrived only to find the bridge did not operate on Sundays.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 05:26 PM

I don't remember the referendum voting slip consenting to allow the goverment any emergency powers in the event of civil unrest.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 05:02 PM

They do not call them remainiacs for nothing. It appears the instigator of the revoke article 50 petition is a raving loony.

https://order-order.com/2019/03/22/revoke-article-50-petition-creator-threatened-may-discussed-buy-legal-guns-take-commons/

"The creator of the petition is a certain Margaret Anne Georgiadou, who went on LBC to discuss the petition this afternoon. Now Guido can reveal a series of shocking posts from her on Facebook where she makes repeated death threats against Theresa May. She even discusses in detail with fellow Remainers how to purchase “legal” guns and go to the House of Commons.

In January, Georgiadou wrote about how she hoped that May would kill herself. In two further comments that now appear to have been deleted, she described May (or possibly Andrea Leadsom) as a “creature” that “needs putting down” and threatened to shoot May “point blank”.

I wonder what Mr Plod makes of all this?
The leftards keep strange company!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 04:49 PM

Here it is

That manages to disturb me in two quite distinct ways simultaneously. It is disturbing it is being done at all, though I expect to hear a casual "we need to prepare for all eventualities" as if this was not important.

But it also disturbs me in the diametrically opposed way. If you seriously think the risk of rioting or worse is real, and presumably there is little reason to think one urban area will differ greatly from another, 3500 staff will go nowhere. I am not sure how exactly you would define a small town, but that the UK has 350 or so seems plausible. So that's ten each. So it manages to be too many and far too few at the same time, depending on your point of view.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 04:28 PM

Could someone please link to the article in the Guardian entitled 'Secret Cabinet Office document reveals chaotic plannning for a no deal Brexit'

I cannot be alone in finding this deeply concerning.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 01:58 PM

Bonnie,

EU is asking the wrong questions. if they are competent, then they should have realised by now that May is not a fit and proper person to negotiate on behalf of the UK, and likewise the members of party she belongs to are putting self-interest before that of their country.

EU shoud be making far more of an effort to find out what the people of the UK want. If it is not pratical to consult with the entire UK population indiviually, then to at least talk to each elected representative.

For the last two and a half years the outcome of the referendum has badly affected my personal well-being, particularly that neither party (EU or UK) have made a legally binding guarantee that there will be no impact on the ability of my long-term partner from Prague and myself to continue to enjoy our long-distance relatkonship, and make a decision in the future to live together without having to satisfy racist conditions. I resent us being discriminated against in favour of those who have been able to reside previously and not be entitled to the same opportunities. I resent that people who have benefited from the right to study, work, retire in other EU states are selfishly denying others the same right on the future. I resent those that have benefited from funding from cohesion and structural funds to improve their lives are denying the same for people who are individually disadvanteged, or live in socially and economically deprived communities. All this is just the tip of the iceberg.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 09:21 AM

Remainiacs are seriously sick puppies!


https://order-order.com/2019/03/22/sick-remainers-produce-commemorative-tea-towel-dead-brexiteers/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 09:08 AM

You pollute every thread you post to with your childish nastiness - time to grow up

Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 02:57 PMMake up your fucking mind you mad fascist
You really are the Full Monty as far as right wing extremism goes

Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 06:56 PM
Try not to talk to people and remember you are a mental midget Iaians
People with far more knowledge and experience have had their fingers burned on this forum by forgetting their place.


Jim Carroll
Insulting someone's intelligence is, in my opinion, worse than insulting them personally. "


Date: 27 Feb 17 - 03:33 AM
Will you kindly fuck off with your arrogant ranting - it impresses nobody.

Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 27 Feb 17 - 04:29 AM
Are yuo a racist or what (rheororical question - of course)
you seem to just exist up your own arse and you're not even good at it, having stolen most of it from elsewhere, like your claimed knowledge of socialism
Jim Carroll

Piss off you pair of racist pricks
Jim Carroll
At present, you are displaying all the belligerent thuggery and potential menage I associate with the racism you are displaying.
Jim Carroll
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 30 Dec 18 - 05:57 AM

"I think only you respond to his nonsense now, Jim."
Had enough of allowing an abusive poster fucking up threads

Jim
I have gone out of my way to be as polite as possible on these threads - all the personal abuse has come from elsewhere



and just what point is rattling roaring jimmie trying to make??
The sour little scouser needs to look in a mirror!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 08:04 AM

MPs should go for a vote of censure against Theresa May. It would be a very fair response to her attack on them on Wednesday.

Those who detest her on the Tory benches won't vote for a no confidence motion because they are running scared of triggering the Fixed Term Act. But a personal vote of censure wouldn't risk that, since it wouldn't have the magic words required in the act. But with an overwhelming vote of censure from across the house even with her trying to hang on to her office it would be very questionable constitutionally.
........

Isn't it a bit daft using the term "Meaningfull Votes" for votes that are ignored by the government, and are as meaningless as could be?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 06:58 AM

Amen to all of that, BS.

What a Poile o'Shoite this once proud nation has been dumped into by 17.4 million thick-tards and a clueless, arrogant, obstinate opportunist.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 06:51 AM

Rafael Behr socks it to May:

From The EU knows it, so do our own MPs: Theresa May is finished

Continental leaders have granted an article 50 extension, but not the one requested by the prime minister... Does May like this plan? It doesn’t matter. She wasn’t in the room where it happened. The summit conclusions were handed down to the petitioning nation as it paced around an antechamber. This is the power relationship between a “third country” and the EU. Britain had better get used to it.

The terms of the extension are not drafted for the prime minister’s benefit. They contain a message from the EU direct to the House of Commons. In crude terms: piss or get off the pot. If you want to leave with a deal, vote for the damned deal. If you are foolish enough to leave without a deal, do not blame us. Have a couple more weeks to think about it. But if you want something else, a referendum or a softer Brexit, work it out soon. And then send someone who isn’t May to talk to us about it.

The point of no return was the summit in Salzburg last September. May was invited to make the case for what was left of her “Chequers plan”... and instead of speaking candidly, persuasively, passionately or even just coherently, the British prime minister read mechanically from a text that was, in substance, no different from an op-ed article already published under her name in a German newspaper that morning. It was embarrassing and insulting. Many European diplomats say that was the moment when Angela Merkel, Emmanuel Macron and others realised they were dealing with someone out of her depth, unable to perform at the level required for the job...

A similar story is emerging from last night’s summit. May was asked about backup plans in the event that parliament rejects her deal a third time. She had nothing. She restated her determination that the deal should pass. This infuriating obtuseness is grimly familiar on this side of the Channel...

On Wednesday night... the prime minister went on television to berate MPs for obstructing her deal. The spirit was demagogic, even if the style was typically charmless. Here was a besieged leader, emerging from her bunker, presenting herself as the champion of her people against a rotten parliament. This did not go down well with MPs... [It didn't go down well with the public either - whom she tried to rope in as being allied with her stance. I have never been so instantly, totally, utterly, reduced to incoherent rage by a pronoun in my life. - BS]

Wednesday night’s performance exposed something that many of May’s colleagues find uncomfortable to acknowledge: ...a single fatal flaw. She is unable to communicate with others because she... lacks the introspection necessary to take responsibility for the mess made by her obstinacy. She has crossed a line from stubbornness into megalomania.

That leads to a conclusion that Britain’s continental neighbours reached long ago. Even if the UK ends up leaving the EU on the terms outlined in the prime minister’s deal, her part in the story will very soon be over. She is finished. The problems with Brexit are much bigger than Theresa May’s failings as a leader. But those failings disqualify her from being part of a viable solution.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/22/eu-mps-theresa-may-finished-brexit


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 06:26 AM

"But Jim your bed is against the wall?!"
Shit - that's where the headache came from !
Must make sure I make different sleeping arrangements next time I quiz a woman (an obscure folkie joke - but quite clever, even if I say so myself)
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 05:55 AM

But Jim your bed is against the wall?!

Well UK, you will always have May
to sing and dance and play
but a very hard Brexit
will likely condemn it
to turn all your blue skies to grey


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 04:50 AM

Lesson learned - got up the wrong side of the bed
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 04:11 AM

Jim - From Mudcat FAQs. You might like to read, mark, learn, and inwardly digest...then do as suggested here and elsewhere, Don't. Feed. The. Troll.

"Dealing With Flamers and Trolls

Here are some definitions from Netlingo.com:
flame
To send nasty or insulting messages, usually in response to someone's having broken the rules of netiquette.
flame bait
An intentionally inflammatory posting in a newsgroup or discussion group designed to elicit a strong reaction thereby creating a flame war.
flame war
When an online discussion degenerates into a series of personal attacks against the debators, rather than discussion of their positions. A heated exchange.
"Troll" is a bit more subtle, and I had a harder time finding it. Here's what I found in the Jargon Dictionary:
troll v.,n. 1. [From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames; or, the post itself. Derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies" which in turn comes from mainstream "trolling", a style of fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll. If you don't fall for the joke, you get to be in on it. See also YHBT. 2. An individual who chronically trolls in sense 1; regularly posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that the have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, as in, "Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll." 3. [Berkeley] Computer lab monitor. A popular campus job for CS students. Duties include helping newbies and ensuring that lab policies are followed. Probably so-called because it involves lurking in dark cavelike corners.
Some people claim that the troll (sense 1) is properly a narrower category than flame bait, that a troll is categorized by containing some assertion that is wrong but not overtly controversial. See also Troll-O-Meter.

I have to say that I have become a bit cynical about people who make a big show of leaving the Mudcat because of flamers - many of these people might warrant the title of "trolls." The people who attract flamers are often quite obnoxious themselves, especially those who leave with a long farewell message that usually generates a hundred "don't go" responses or more. I am concerned about those who quietly slip away, or those who never even start to participate because of the nastiness. Those who make a show of making martyrs of themselves are every bit as bad as the flamers, I think. They prey on the sympathy of good people.

I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it many times more: the best way to deal with both flamers and trolls is to ignore them. Give them silence, and they'll go away. They feed on attention - don't give it to them.

There is another problem that occasionally arises here - people who are threatening in their behavior. It is of utmost importance that you do not try to deal with these people. If you ignore them totally and inform Joe Offer or Big Mick about them quietly with a personal message or e-mail, we can quietly make them disappear (to an extent).
PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO DEAL WITH THESE PEOPLE YOURSELVES?

If people seem dangerous, LEAVE THEM ALONE."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 03:52 AM

robomatic wrote Did I understand the news today that Europe assented to the requested time extension? Who rules what the official Brexit departure date should be anyway?

Not quite, robo. The EU agreed to an extension but not the one requested. As to who rules the date, because it is a joint treaty, it is quite complicated. The EU has offered a date, but it is not legally binding on the UK because they have not formally accepted it. Last night Teresa May agreed to it, which in effect makes it government policy, but in law nothing has changed, to use her favourite phrase. It is not until Parliament formally accepts the offer and amends the law that that happens. Parliament could in principle do that now, but in practise will almost certainly wait until after MV3 because that enables them to accept one of the two alternative dates rather than have to build the alternative dates with their conditionality into the law.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 03:29 AM

Only you can do something, Jim. As suggested many times before, just ignore him.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 03:15 AM

"If you bothered to follow the narrative you"
If oyu read what I wrote, you insecure ill-mannered moron, you would notice I didn't comment on the reasons for changing the date
You pollute every thread you post to with your childish nastiness - time to grow up
Can a mod please do something about tis appalling behavior please ?
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 03:07 AM

Re History: This was an amusing snippet amonst everything going on last night -
===
#HannanIrishHistory was trending after pro-Brexit Tory Mr Hannan used Ireland to make a point about the EU in a comment article.

In particular, he suggested Fianna Fail had won every Irish election between 1932 and 2008, when in fact the liberal-conservative party Fine Gael was in power on six occasions during the period.

When the accuracy of his article was questioned, Mr Hannan said "historians necessarily have different takes on the same event", adding: "Please try to accept that yours is not the only interpretation."
===

Another example of the unrelenting search for accuracy and understanding we have come to expect from some of the leading Brexiteers, like Hannon and "Dover" Raab.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 03:01 AM

They have cut the leaving time from June to the previous month I think - symbolic

If you bothered to follow the narrative you would realise that an extension until June necessitates the UK participating in the European elections.

They will offer entertainment in their own right without the UK adding further divisive icing on the cake.
Do try to keep up!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 02:53 AM

"Did I understand the news today that Europe assented to the requested time extension?"
They have cut the leaving time from June to the previous month I think - symbolic, given the name of the head lemming leading Britain over the cliff
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: KarenH
Date: 22 Mar 19 - 01:32 AM

Re history: this depends on who writes it. On the assumption that history decides that Brexit was a disaster, maybe it will blame the voters who wanted to come out of the EU? Or the British Empire, which appears to be the favoured target of a great deal of blame on these boards. Myself, I think William the Conqueror has to share much of the blame, together with the Ancient Romans, who, after all, foisted Christianity on the world, to the extent that a major sect is still based in their home base, running a close second. Or maybe the Celts, those dastardly incomers! They were Europeans too, of course!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 23 July 10:33 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.