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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Raggytash 25 Aug 19 - 06:13 AM
Raggytash 25 Aug 19 - 06:01 AM
Iains 25 Aug 19 - 04:17 AM
Iains 25 Aug 19 - 04:03 AM
DMcG 25 Aug 19 - 03:38 AM
DMcG 25 Aug 19 - 03:30 AM
DMcG 24 Aug 19 - 05:53 PM
Jim Carroll 24 Aug 19 - 05:15 PM
Raggytash 24 Aug 19 - 04:49 PM
Iains 24 Aug 19 - 03:36 PM
Raggytash 23 Aug 19 - 02:34 PM
Iains 23 Aug 19 - 02:13 PM
Jim Carroll 23 Aug 19 - 11:01 AM
Stanron 23 Aug 19 - 11:01 AM
Mrrzy 23 Aug 19 - 10:41 AM
Iains 23 Aug 19 - 05:05 AM
DMcG 23 Aug 19 - 02:03 AM
Steve Shaw 22 Aug 19 - 06:09 PM
Iains 22 Aug 19 - 03:05 PM
Dave the Gnome 22 Aug 19 - 12:48 PM
Backwoodsman 22 Aug 19 - 11:52 AM
Iains 22 Aug 19 - 11:11 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Aug 19 - 08:47 AM
Jim Carroll 22 Aug 19 - 08:37 AM
Iains 22 Aug 19 - 07:36 AM
Iains 21 Aug 19 - 02:11 PM
Backwoodsman 21 Aug 19 - 01:11 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Aug 19 - 01:03 PM
Backwoodsman 21 Aug 19 - 11:50 AM
Iains 21 Aug 19 - 10:24 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Aug 19 - 10:05 AM
Iains 21 Aug 19 - 08:52 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Aug 19 - 08:17 AM
Dave the Gnome 21 Aug 19 - 08:13 AM
Stanron 21 Aug 19 - 08:00 AM
Iains 21 Aug 19 - 07:28 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Aug 19 - 07:03 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Aug 19 - 06:39 AM
Dave the Gnome 21 Aug 19 - 06:35 AM
Dave the Gnome 21 Aug 19 - 06:30 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Aug 19 - 05:37 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Aug 19 - 04:56 AM
Backwoodsman 21 Aug 19 - 04:31 AM
Stanron 21 Aug 19 - 03:49 AM
Dave the Gnome 21 Aug 19 - 03:32 AM
Stanron 21 Aug 19 - 03:26 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Aug 19 - 02:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 21 Aug 19 - 02:21 AM
Stanron 20 Aug 19 - 08:56 PM
Raggytash 20 Aug 19 - 08:28 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Aug 19 - 06:13 AM

Yet another gloomy report of yet another potential financial hit to the UK economy if we leave the EU. This one is from University College London.

I defy any of our Brexiteers to claim they understood this ramification prior to voting 3 years ago.



UK as a data hub


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Aug 19 - 06:01 AM

So, let me get this right.

The government commissions a report from it's own people.

The report is duly put together to inform the government of the likely outcomes of a no-deal Brexit such as delays at ports, immigration delays, disruption of medical supplies, a shortage of some foodstuffs, the potential closure of two refineries etc etc.

The government should then, according to your somewhat skewed notion, ignore that very same document as "project fear"

What !!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 25 Aug 19 - 04:17 AM

Dodgy dossiers and forecasts of massive destruction
( Michael Fish moments )
Economists have completely failed us. They’re no better than Mystic Meg
Lifted straight from the lefty bible the gruniard, so it must be stenciled on a Moses tablet

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/06/economists-economic-policy-brexit-crash-failure


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 25 Aug 19 - 04:03 AM

I referred to an OFFICIAL report created for the elected Government of our nation, commissioned by our elected representatives in order that they can plan for the future of the people of this country.

Yet one, at least, of our "brexiteers" deems it "project fear"


You illustrate the point I was making perfectly! Because a document is stamped official you take it as gospel truth. What part of contingency planning can you not understand?
Let me help you.

contingency: a future event or circumstance which is possible but cannot be predicted with certainty.
As an example let us consider the learned contributions of bankers and economists when forecasting the future event of Brexit. For added veracity I will point you towards two articles in the lefty rag the gruniard.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/05/chief-economist-of-bank-of-england-admits-errors
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/sep/02/economic-forecasting-flawed-science-data

I realise some of the concepts outlined may be a little too technical for your average lefty so I will summarize for you:

The forecasts of expert economists tend to be largely bullshit.

That you cannot appreciate these salient facts should be a concern for your mental capacity, not mine. So not so subtle digs as below are really not needed on this forum, although I do appreciate that when you have run out of arguments insults and bluster are all you have left.
I know we are not supposed to cast aspersions on the mental capacity of other poster but you have to ask the question


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Aug 19 - 03:38 AM

I have no idea how I failed to copy the heading I wrote on that last bit, so here it is now:


Although we got the last thread closed again, we seem to be doing better this time at avoiding getting into spats, so I will get back to posting more regularly over what seems likely to be a crucial few months. There will be lulls when I am away on holiday during early September, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Aug 19 - 03:30 AM

Now we seems to be in this somewhat fictious 30 day period to find a solution to the border problem, I think the EU should find an opportunity to make clear what is needed for an effective solution. (I say 'somewhat fictitious' because it has been written into every position statement and the withdrawal agreement that the backstop is cancelled if a solution is found, however much some parts of the media claim the PM has made some kind of breakthrough.)


Any border, hard, soft or technological, needs to achieve two things:

1. It need to permit goods and people who meet some rules to pass.
2.        It needs to prevent goods and people who do not meet those rules from passing.

Everything I have heard so far, like 'trusted trader schemes'. is about the first of those. No solution can be accpetable unless it also meets the second requirement: how does it prevent someone who tries to dodge the system crossing the border?

So it seems to me pointing out that both parts are needed for a solution before the PM turns up with a shiny folder stuffed with proposals that do not address the second would go some way to preventing Boris' obvious pitch to the UK "we presented lots of workable solutions and the nasty EU rejected them out of hand."

Now, I can't persuade the EU to do so. But I cab make this two-part requirement explicit here so none of our Brexiteers can simply say Boris's line: the UK brought lots of workable proposals but the EU rejected them. If they do, I will ask them how the proposals address that second requirement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Aug 19 - 05:53 PM

I was talking with a group of friends last night, one (at least) of whom is a strong Brexit supporter. He said "No one has read the Withdrawl Agreement..."

Figure raised. "Er, I have.'

He stopped at once. Perhaps he was being polite, or perhaps the idea anyone would read such a thing unless it was their job stunned him...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Aug 19 - 05:15 PM

" but you have to ask the question"
Some of us think you don't Rag - not when it is so effortless that you have nothing to push against it
Why bother ?
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Aug 19 - 04:49 PM

Well, I've seen goalpost's moved many times on Mudcat and often in some very bizarre and tortuous manners and changes to threads.

What the **** a supposed US Government plan to "invade" Canada has to do with an OFFICIAL government report into the effects of Brexit is beyond me.

I referred to an OFFICIAL report created for the elected Government of our nation, commissioned by our elected representatives in order that they can plan for the future of the people of this country.

Yet one, at least, of our "brexiteers" deems it "project fear"

I know we are not supposed to cast aspersions on the mental capacity of other poster but you have to ask the question.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Aug 19 - 03:36 PM

Isn't it strange how a GOVERNMENT sponsored report can suddenly become part of a fictional project fear.

No stranger than US plans to invade Canada(War plan Red)
Governments plan for all kinds of contingencies.
Only remainiacs regard the most extreme and unlikely scenarios as holy writ.
The rest of us get a little tired of endless permutations of the sky is falling. Just as well gullibility is not contagious, or requires incarceration. No doubt they also think coronation street is a documentary.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Aug 19 - 02:34 PM

Isn't it strange how a GOVERNMENT sponsored report can suddenly become part of a fictional project fear.

Makes you wonder just what the Government know about the future of Brexit .......................... and if they don't know .....!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Aug 19 - 02:13 PM

If you believe the nonsense about yellowhammer/project fear, then I have a nice bridge I can sell you. One careful owner!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Aug 19 - 11:01 AM

OUR LOUT IN NUMBER TEN
Mkae ya proud to be British - dunnit!!
Jim Caaarroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 23 Aug 19 - 11:01 AM

The link only goes to an agree page and no further.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Aug 19 - 10:41 AM

Interesting article y'all might not have seen... https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/brexit-yellowhammer-no-deal.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Aug 19 - 05:05 AM

A nice long relaxing holiday helps pass the time. Less need for proroguing Parliament.
TIC TOC !


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Aug 19 - 02:03 AM

You should not forget that Trump is no fan of the WTO, and is unwilling to appoint a judge (Trump’s Search for Absolute Sovereignty Could Destroy the WTO)

So the idea we trade on WTO rules may collapse. The main reason we have to have the same tariffs for all countries is it is a consequence of WTO rules. But if we chose to breach those rules, it is not clear what could be done to prevent us. Sanctions of various kinds, certainly, but if the US and some other countries were prepared to ignore such sanctions they might not hold. The consequences for the world as everything collapses into a free-for-all on trade would be incalculable. But that would not dissuade Trump and probably not Cummings.

Not to mention Trump would be very happy for the UK to take the initial flak rather than the US.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Aug 19 - 06:09 PM

So here's where we are. After three years and two months of sterile Tory failure, we have two months to go with politicians everywhere on summer holiday. Merkel sez backstop stays, end of. Macron sez backstop stays, end of. Johnson sez no deal with backstop. No backstop means almost certain border conflicts. Every economist worth their salt sez that brexit will be a disaster. There is no chance whatsoever of a trade deal with the US if we crash out without a deal leading to hard border, no backstop.

Beam me up, Scotty...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Aug 19 - 03:05 PM

It is hardly mocking napoleon macron to point out that his railways run predominantly on track from sunny Scunny's rolling mills(The industrial garden city.) This is a fact!

The contract was initially with British steel, then Cora and now Tata, and has been in existence since 1999. Up until the early 80s iron ore was mined locally mainly opencast and extracted up to nearly 5,000,000 tons a year. The last operating quarry the yarborough is named after the local landowner who has an estate nearby of only 113 square kilometers, or 27k acres)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Aug 19 - 12:48 PM

With his usual flair for tact and diplomacy BoJo has managed to rub his French counterpart up the wrong way. Johnson mocks Macron.

Sounds like just the right sort of thing to do when you really need all the international support you can get. I guess he must have gone to Trump university.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Aug 19 - 11:52 AM

Government report with all the wonderful benefits of no-deal Brexit remains steadfastly unleaked...!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Aug 19 - 11:11 AM

Boris is meeting Macron today. I would suggest he offers him a long vacation to St. Helena, then we can focus on the important work of Brexit.
and Merkel has to face the fact that fears of a German recession are rising after Europe's biggest economy posted its second-lowest manufacturing readout in six years. Wont be helped by all those German cars not coming to Britain if they continue their silly games.
Ireland is finally waking up to the fact that playing the EU's useful idiot has consequences.

Ireland has urged businesses to review supply chains and their strategies for dealing with UK markets.
Firms should monitor possible drastic changes to transport, logistics, certification, regulation, licensing, contracts and data management ahead of Britain’s scheduled departure.
The warning comes as firms are businesses are asked to monitor their cash flows, currency and make sure banking affairs are in order.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 19 - 08:47 AM

Sorry - couldn't resist
Won't happen again
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 19 - 08:37 AM

Unlinked quote traceable back to Pokemon site - a shade up on Guido, I suppose
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Aug 19 - 07:36 AM

The Common EU Agricultural policy.
" Oxfam, not exactly famed for its opposition to government spending, calculated in 2006 that a British household had to pay an additional £832 a year for food because of CAP (it should be noted that another study for eastern and southern European countries that just entered the EU found a smaller inflationary effect on consumer prices). Most hit are, of course, low-income households, where higher prices on day-to-day goods have the greatest effect on their overall means. This is the same scheme that created the milk lakes and butter mountains and still exports at a loss to Africa to undercut and destroy local farm enterprises

Worse still, Brussels’ protectionism seems to explicitly favour big business over small and medium-sized farmers. The Heinrich-Böll Foundation, a think tank associated with the German Green Party, found that between 2003 and 2013, over 25% of farms in Europe went out of business. And indeed, it is mostly small farms that vanish, while bigger corporations get even bigger.

When it was established in 1962 the original purpose of CAP was to secure that there was enough food for Europeans on a continent that was still wrought from war. By the 1980s, CAP accounted for over two-thirds of the entire EU budget.

While the share of the overall budget has since gone down – to 38% under the current six-year budget – it is still the largest financial program of the union. In addition, despite having decreased in relative terms, CAP payments still increased in absolute numbers until 2013.

At 38% of the budget, European taxpayers send more than €58bn to farmers each year – a shocking amount if one considers that farmers only make up 3% of the EU’s total population and are responsible for no more than 6% of its GDP.

Indeed, while the original goal of CAP was to enable farmers to feed Europe after decades of conflict, now it’s Europe that is feeding farmers through its massive subsidies. Their businesses often only survive because they are effectively bailed out – unlike big financial institutions, these are not one-off bailouts, but day in, day out.
If all of this sounds like protectionism and an illiberal economic policy it’s because that’s exactly what it is. That much was also clear from the strongly expressed opposition to a recent free trade agreement with Latin American countries from French President Emmanuel Macron and his colleagues from Ireland, Belgium, and Poland – all countries where farmers are profiting much from CAP. Politicians across Europe are fond of telling us that farmers need “protection” from the scourge of cheap imports, as if consumers’ interest in cheaper food were of no consequence at all.

An example of the madness:
Richard Findlay is a farmer in the North York Moors National Park between York and Newcastle. As the Financial Times reported last year, Mr Findlay garners a profit of around £12,000 a year by grazing some seven hundred sheep. But even that £12,000 is quite a lot if one looks closer. Indeed, if it weren’t for subsidies delivered by the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy (CAP), Mr Findlay would be facing a loss of £32,000. Simply put, this farm would not exist if it were not for Brussels."

    Please furnish attribution for any information you copy-paste. -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 02:11 PM

Font as in once dipped in it you are baptized into a life of truth and righteousness and drop all those foolish leftie ideas.
(Remember Ecclesiastes 10:2)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 01:11 PM

Sorry...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 01:03 PM

Stoppit, John...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 11:50 AM

Fount.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 10:24 AM

The Boris bounce versus the compo corpse.
Spiffing news from the last survey results: Boris has taken a lead of 14 points over Labour in a new Kantar TNS poll, with the party jumping by 17% since May. What a lad! You can read all about it on Guido's site,
the font of truth and editorial accuracy


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 10:05 AM

CAPX
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 08:52 AM

A sensible view


https://capx.co/no-deal-issues-are-real-and-solving-them-is-key-to-a-successful-brexit/

Takes a balanced view,unlike the hysterical mumbo jumbo faithfully repeated here by remainiacs


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 08:17 AM

"For all your (collectively) dire prognostications we may not know anything before Sept 1"
Damn - I thought the leaked report came from the Government !!!

No responsible government can - or has ever tried to adopt a 'wait and see" policy, vertainly not on this scale
The dfact that supporters of Brexit constantly put this up as an argument is confirmation enough that this "keep 'em all out" enterprise hs been a massive leap in the dark from day one
Crazier and crazier by the minute
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 08:13 AM

Whatever.

Interesting that we are still being told the news is as likely to be good as bad. In over 3 years of asking for good news there has been no response. How is the news as likely to be good going off that track record? And, yes, this is now back to brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 08:00 AM

Well I just nipped out to the shops and it all kicked off. Leading questions with implicit accusations are, to me, an attack. Not a million miles from "Are you still beating your wife?" or, put to UK lefties, "are you all still anti-Semites?"

In your posting

Date: 21 Aug 19 - 03:32 AM

Check which word was emboldened.

Incidentally, I'm not a member of any political party. As for Brexit, we are in a state of 'wait and see'. For all your (collectively) dire prognostications we may not know anything before Sept 1. And it is just as likely to be good news as it is to be bad news.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 07:28 AM

Within 10/15 years the East Wind had ripped away all the topsoil, making a once rich agricultural area into the holidaymaker-reliant desert it has become and devastating the lives of the people living there

Bit of an exaggeration I would say. The pedological literature does not support such an extreme view, even that relating to north Norfolk.
In the last forty years a lot more has been learnt about soils,their erosion and means of mitigating it. In tandem, legislation on watercourses has forced additional remedial measures on landowners. Far more attention is paid to cultivation techniques on slopes. Techniques such as over sowing with a cross slot drill enable seeds to be inserted through an existing cover crop. Soil erosion occurs naturally through mass wasting and has been accentuated ever since man first started farming. Growing crops comes at a price. Not growing crops comes at a price. You starve. What choice are you going to make?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 07:03 AM

"Taking Back Control" (with apologies to Lord Alf):

Forward the Brexit Brigade!’
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the leaver knew
Boris had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do AND die,
Into the valley of Death
Rode the seventeen million
Taking the rest of us poor sods with 'em...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 06:39 AM

Brexiteers have stopped having good days, Dave. Have you noticed how all their optimism about super duper trade deals and how the little UK is going to kick world ass once we're out has somehow seeped away? Do or die? Do AND die I think the poet actually said...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 06:35 AM

As to your comment "It happens a lot on this forum from the UK lefties." I shall let that stand but if you believe it is in any way the adult line of reasoning you seem to be advocating then I can assure you, you are wrong.

But Jim is right. Let's get back to brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 06:30 AM

This makes your attack an attack on me.

It wasn't an attack Stanron, it was a question. Are you feeling so insecure that you perceive any question as an attack or is it just a bad day? (Another question.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 05:37 AM

Can I suggest that this line might well close this thread down
Just a thought
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 04:56 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron - PM
Date: 31 Jul 19 - 07:49 PM

"My appreciation is that the idiot is you, Steve."

Fairly personal, I'd say.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 04:31 AM

Stan, it was a question. A question is not an attack. Don’t be silly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 03:49 AM

Dave the Gnome wrote: "Or do you, as many of your party do, believe that maintaining the countryside is more desirable than helping people?"
This makes your attack an attack on me. If I believed "maintaining the countryside is more desirable than helping people" that would make me appear inhumane and my opinions could be rejected because of my monstrous nature.

It's not that I object to such an attack because it is, or could be in any way, effective. I object to it because it's childish. It happens a lot on this forum from the UK lefties.

"You say this and that means you think that and therefor you are a monster!"

It's playground stuff. I would prefer a more grown up approach.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 03:32 AM

Why do you personalise this stuff?

Because it was a personal question. "Or do you, as many of your party do, believe that maintaining the countryside is more desirable than helping people?"

You answered the question. What's the problem?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 03:26 AM

Dave the Gnome wrote: And is that not also the case with, say, the steel industry Stanron? If they maintain the population in a way the government seems desirable, then supporting them makes sense and they can be considered viable. Or do you, as many of your party do, believe that maintaining the countryside is more desirable than helping people?
Why do you personalise this stuff? It's nothing to do with belief or doctrine. Mine or anyone else's. It's actually to do with rules. EU rules say that it is unfair for one country to support it's industries above a certain level.

So I do think it's a good idea to support the steel industry workers. The EU rules against it. That is one, among many, of the reasons I think we should leave.

Other EU countries break these rules apparently without penalty. However the UK is a gross contributor to the EU budget. We are a cash cow to be milked. If we broke the rules we would be fined heavily, because we can afford to pay. That is another, among many, of the reasons I think we should leave.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 02:45 AM

"Surely if farms are not viable they should be allowed to go to the wall."
Not sure I agree with that Rag
"Viable" means profitable in the world we live in, which doesn't mean 'necessary'
Food, like housing, and many other basic needs of life, have become investable commodities rather than necessities, and as such, their production depends on their making a smaller and smaller group of people ricer and richer
I have become appalled at what this has done, both to the quality of our staple foods and to the planet as a whole, summarised perfectly in mass-produced, shit-tasting cotton-wool bread wrapped in plastic which sticks in the gullet of both the consumer and the planet.
We ere regular visitors to Walter Pardon in North Norfolk and over the time we were, watched as the Multinationals ripped up th hedgerows, making ten fields into one in order to make it easy for their monster machines   
Within 10/15 years the East Wind had ripped away all the topsoil, making a once rich agricultural area into the holidaymaker-reliant desert it has become and devastating the lives of the people living there
Maintaining Britain's farming heritage is not a romantic notion; it is part of keeping our planet in good health for future generations
JIm


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 02:21 AM

And is that not also the case with, say, the steel industry Stanron? If they maintain the population in a way the government seems desirable, then supporting them makes sense and they can be considered viable. Or do you, as many of your party do, believe that maintaining the countryside is more desirable than helping people?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 20 Aug 19 - 08:56 PM

Well in case you didn't get it, my answer questioned your use of the word 'viable'. If they maintain landscape in a way the Government deems desirable, then supporting them makes sense and they can be considered viable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 20 Aug 19 - 08:28 PM

May I refer people back to my opening question which was:

"Surely if farms are not viable they should be allowed to go to the wall. That is what our resident right wingers believed was OK for mining, steelworks,manufacturing etc etc so why not farming"

I can't help but notice you have all studiously avoided addressing this point.


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