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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

DMcG 13 Mar 19 - 03:42 PM
Backwoodsman 13 Mar 19 - 02:21 PM
Dave the Gnome 13 Mar 19 - 01:48 PM
Backwoodsman 13 Mar 19 - 12:38 PM
Backwoodsman 13 Mar 19 - 12:37 PM
DMcG 13 Mar 19 - 12:17 PM
Mossback 13 Mar 19 - 11:48 AM
Backwoodsman 13 Mar 19 - 11:37 AM
Iains 13 Mar 19 - 11:10 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Mar 19 - 06:47 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Mar 19 - 08:29 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Mar 19 - 05:49 PM
DMcG 12 Mar 19 - 04:04 PM
SPB-Cooperator 12 Mar 19 - 04:02 PM
SPB-Cooperator 12 Mar 19 - 03:57 PM
DMcG 12 Mar 19 - 03:44 PM
Mrrzy 12 Mar 19 - 03:36 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Mar 19 - 03:21 PM
DMcG 12 Mar 19 - 03:14 PM
Dave the Gnome 12 Mar 19 - 03:00 PM
Backwoodsman 12 Mar 19 - 01:02 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 12 Mar 19 - 12:17 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Mar 19 - 12:12 PM
Backwoodsman 12 Mar 19 - 10:59 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Mar 19 - 10:42 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Mar 19 - 10:26 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Mar 19 - 10:15 AM
Iains 12 Mar 19 - 10:09 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Mar 19 - 09:49 AM
Iains 12 Mar 19 - 09:47 AM
DMcG 12 Mar 19 - 02:38 AM
Iains 11 Mar 19 - 05:25 PM
SPB-Cooperator 11 Mar 19 - 08:20 AM
DMcG 11 Mar 19 - 07:44 AM
Raggytash 11 Mar 19 - 06:36 AM
David Carter (UK) 11 Mar 19 - 06:11 AM
Stanron 11 Mar 19 - 06:01 AM
Stanron 11 Mar 19 - 06:00 AM
David Carter (UK) 11 Mar 19 - 05:43 AM
DMcG 11 Mar 19 - 05:24 AM
David Carter (UK) 11 Mar 19 - 05:11 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Mar 19 - 04:31 AM
DMcG 11 Mar 19 - 04:19 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Mar 19 - 03:58 AM
DMcG 11 Mar 19 - 03:01 AM
Mossback 10 Mar 19 - 09:24 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 19 - 07:59 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Mar 19 - 07:46 PM
Dave the Gnome 10 Mar 19 - 05:40 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Mar 19 - 04:31 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 03:42 PM

I am pleased to see the Malthouse compromise has been rejected by even more than May's deal. Given the EU was clear about how insane we would be to vote for somwthing rej3cred so often in the negotiations, it is one bright spot in the hookah.

But less pleasing is that some Brexiteers including Ian Duncan Smith are reported to have been trying to persuade Hungary and others to veto any request to the EU for an extension. So much for hating how Brussels can overrule the UK Parliament.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 02:21 PM

Pretty sure it's a different NP Dave.
And I'll pass your regards on...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 01:48 PM

That was exactly as I read it DMcG. I

Send my regards to Ian, BWM. Not sure what to send to the other :-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 12:38 PM

And I'll be meeting up with one of the Muskets- I'll give him everyone's best.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 12:37 PM

"In the faint hope of warding off Nigel"

I'm going to a gig on Friday evening, just noticed the support act is some guy called Nigel Parsons...ve-e-ery interesting!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 12:17 PM


Nobody wants this Brexit

Perhaps he could explain what the majority vote of 17,410,742 people voted for in the referendum then?


17.4 etc voted for A Brexit, But did they vote for THIS Brexit, which is what the phrase you are commenting on says? No one at all knows: neither you, nor I, nor any of the leave campaigners, nor Parliament. In fact, it is highly likely that even at the time they were voting with different understandings of Brexit.

In the faint hope of warding off Nigel, I read 'Nobody wants this Brexit' in the common, ordinary, everyday sense of the phrase. That is, I am sure out of the 17.4million there will be a few who did, but the numbers are dwarfed by the rest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mossback
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 11:48 AM

explain what the majority vote of 17,410,742 people voted for in the referendum then

Easy. That was then, this is now.


Aw, shit - I responded to the fool. My bad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 11:37 AM

The antithesis to "Great minds think alike" is, of course, "Fools seldom differ".


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 11:10 AM

Nobody wants this Brexit

Perhaps he could explain what the majority vote of 17,410,742 people voted for in the referendum then? or perhaps he uses the same abacus as Diane Abbot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 06:47 AM

Nobody wants this Brexit - it's time to grow up, and ditch this miscarriage of democracy


Not much respect for the tabloids but this article tells it as it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 08:29 PM

Oops, sorry, SPB, I misread your point about blue badges so my comment about my mum is irrelevant. However, when I looked into it a while back I thought I found that the blue badge scheme has a reciprocal agreement across the EU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 05:49 PM

Piling disgrace on disgrace, May is failing to whip her MPs tomorrow to oppose no-deal.

I use my mum's blue badge everywhere, SPB (only when she's with me, of course). I wasn't aware of the issue you mention. I think I'd better check...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 04:04 PM

EU needs to ... pull their fingers out and come up with a deal that...

I am afraid not: the EU does not have to come up with anything. The UK has to come up with something that is at least good enough to convince the EU it merits an extension. I agree with you the proposed deal should protect those rights, but it is up to the UK to say that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 04:02 PM

And UK parliament must prioritise legislation that legally enforces car park attendants/local authorities to recognise blue badges issued across the EU in all UK car parks that recognise UK blue badges.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 03:57 PM

EU needs to forget about the self-serving Tory party politics which were responsible for the referendum, and pull their fingers out and come up with a deal that protects all the rights of UK pro-Europeans.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 03:44 PM

So, does this latest vote mean Remain? I am unclear.

No, nor do the votes tomorrow or the day after mean remain. It is, perhaps, a step in that direction, but equally it could be a step towards the no-deal brink if Parliament fritters away the few days left on irrelevancies or agreeing things that the EU cannot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 03:36 PM

So, does this latest vote mean Remain? I am unclear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 03:21 PM

She's not bloody giving in. That's for sure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 03:14 PM

In answer to May's speech saying she would be holding the votes on Wednesday and Thursday, Corbyn said he would be bringing the previously rejected Labour version of Brexit back to the house. Even if the house were to accept it, which is very doubtful, the question arises whether the EU will be prepared to enter another long period of negotiation. As I have said before, I don't find red unicorns any more believable than blue ones. There are things in the Labour proposal that will be as objectionable to the EU as the ones from the Tories.

I think the probability is we will need more than this lets-talk-about-something-else approach to stop a no deal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 03:00 PM

Well, I see she has blown it again. Will no one rid us of this turbulent pest?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 01:02 PM

Hopefully!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 12:17 PM

> people in real life who you can't have a proper conversation with because they're not listening

Like the current PM. And I think the consequences are just about to rear up and bite her on the butt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 12:12 PM

Indeed he did. I know a few people in real life who you can't have a proper conversation with because they're not listening to you. Instead, they're thinking of the next "clever" thing to say. It's not very grown-up, is it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:59 AM

"I fink you mean fox dear boy. Having your sheepdogs feast on lamb is a proven unsuccessful business model. But finance is hardly your strong point, having suckled on the public teat all your life. Twould seem for all your years in the countryside you have learnt precious little."

And I think, silly boy, you completely misunderstood Steve's post. Not 'arf as clever as you try to pretend you are, are you?

Stick to quoting 'Semen' Staines - that's about your level.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:42 AM

Please don't feed the animals Steve - they'll only come back for more :->
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:26 AM

An observation worth repeating and further reinforcing.

From: Iains - PM
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:15 PM

"Now you have clarified who you were insulting, you may perhaps find a reckoning in a more public forum forthcoming."

Eleven minutes later from the same poster:

From: Iains - PM
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM

"Backward man you are a tad behind the curve."

And then:

"Not only besandled and besotted but also oblivious"

And just now:

"I fink you mean fox dear boy. Having your sheepdogs feast on lamb is a proven unsuccessful business model. But finance is hardly your strong point, having suckled on the public teat all your life. Twould seem for all your years in the countryside you have learnt precious little."

By the way, folks, if you can read this thank a teacher.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:15 AM

Another amusing exchange from the same Comments section:

"The backstop needs to be well oiled, greased, lathered with WD40 and shoved well and truly up ERG arses, that should shut them up for a while."

"Really? Do we have to pre-lube the thing?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:09 AM

he's not going to channel his inner Border Collie. He sees dinner."

I fink you mean fox dear boy. Having your sheepdogs feast on lamb is a proven unsuccessful business model. But finance is hardly your strong point, having suckled on the public teat all your life. Twould seem for all your years in the countryside you have learnt precious little.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 09:49 AM

I know there's nothing even remotely amusing about all this, but I loved this one, from a Comments section under a Guardian article:

"By the way, if anyone is under the misapprehension that Trump is going to help Britain with a favorable trade deal after Brexit, they've got another thing coming. When the wolf sees a lamb straying from the herd, he's not going to channel his inner Border Collie. He sees dinner."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 09:47 AM

Good news about brexit. We dodge the biometric ID cards.



http://www.statewatch.org/news/2019/feb/eu-frontex-visas-ilos-id-cards.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 02:38 AM

If the French suggestion works for Calais, why not for Ireland?

You mean apart from the fact a port is completely different in scale to a 499km border, that all the French system achieves is to separate the traffic into red and green channels where the red have to be checked, that building such infrastructure as the channels is expressly prohibited by the withdrawal agreement and that the police of Ireland have expressed serious security concerns about any attempt to have such infrastructure? Give me a minute and I will think of something.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 05:25 PM

If the French suggestion works for Calais, why not for Ireland?

As any self-respecting Brexit pundit will be more than happy to remind us, smart borders featuring mythological things like remote customs declarations and automated number plate checking are simply “unicorns” which aren’t likely to be possible for hundreds, if not thousands of years. They certainly won’t be suitable for any post-Brexit border crossings…

Which is why French Customs have just unveiled a “smart border” – an “innovative technological solution” which will be implemented on 29 March 2019 “at all points of entry/exit to/from the Calais region and at border points from Channel-North Sea to maintain smooth circulation of your goods.”

From Guido of course

https://order-order.com/2019/03/11/france-unveils-technological-smart-border-solution/

and for the nonbelievers, some french unicorns below!

http://www.douane.gouv.fr/articles/a16171-the-smart-border


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 08:20 AM

I am waiting for May to
make a gaurantee that if EU 27 denies fredom of movement to a single UK national that this will be treated as a major diplomatic incident. If not then May, and everyone who voted for her party is a racist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 07:44 AM

Well, one of them repeatedly says "we are leaving on 29th March" when asked. That is possible but hardly certain, so I wonder what replaces that non-answer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 06:36 AM

Stanron, all the others Brexiteers have refused repeatedly to respond to any of my questions regarding if the UK will be as well off, if not better off, post Brexit.

Almost every report from every source to date has been negative. The Banking, Insurance and Finance Industries are setting up offices overseas, the car industry is in disarray, multiply other industries are moving at least some of their operations into the Eurozone and even arch Brexiteer Rees Mogg has opened on office of his Somerset Investment company in Dublin.

So tell me how is the UK going to benefit from Brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 06:11 AM

I think that there are some leavers who are not stupid or dangerously stupid, but just dangerous, because they see brexit as an opportunity for personal financial gain at the expense of the rest of us. Such as hedge fund managers shorting the British economy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 06:01 AM

Or should that be remainers?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 06:00 AM

Leavers fall into two camps, the stupid and the dangerously stupid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 05:43 AM

Brexiters fall into two camps, the extremely selfish such as those who have hedged against the UK economy, and the utterly deluded, who were taken in by the lies on the side of a bus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 05:24 AM

Here is a fairly old clip of my MP, Royston Smith. In the first minute or so he lists why he voted to leave.

What is striking it that the reasons are all about him: not once does he say it is in the countries best interests. The closest he gets is saying he thinks that the country can stand on its own two feet. Sure it can, but that does not mean it will be as tall as it was!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 05:11 AM

Hunt on TV this morning, and the revolting Mark Francois (surprised he hasn't changed his name), all the other tory MPs, to them all thats important is keeping the tory party intact. Far more important than the welfare of the people of the country. Not one of them is making the case that the people will be better off out of the EU. They can't because they know it's not true. But to them we are simply collateral damage, sacrificed in the interests of the tory party. If they had any decency they would be working for a compromise, such as Corbyn's customs union proposal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 04:31 AM

:-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 04:19 AM


I didn't slip up btw, DMcG.


That's fine. I did, though!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 03:58 AM

I didn't slip up btw, DMcG. March 29th is a Friday. Everyone knows that before those upstart Europeans started to dictate what their betters should do, weekends were sacrosanct and nothing got done. As March 30 and 31 will be spent watching football and going to church, April the first will be the first proper day of our glorious past re-invented. And very apt it is :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 03:01 AM

According to the Guardian today:

The prime minister pledged in parliament to put her deal to the Commons on Tuesday but she is being urged by senior Conservative MPs to pull the vote if she fails to secure significant concessions from Brussels.
Leading Tories have warned Downing Street it could face a three-figure defeat similar to the historic 230-vote loss in January if the government goes ahead.
They have advised her instead to replace the vote with a motion setting out the kind of Brexit deal that would be acceptable to Tory MPs to keep the party together and put pressure on Brussels.

======

You have to admit she has form in pulling votes. I have been dubious of the Labour idea that they will drop the Kyle amendment from Tuesday, and bring it in later, perhaps on Wednesday or Thursday. The risk of that approach is she could hold Tuesdays vote then pull the others. I wonder if these 'senior Tories' genuinely believe the EU will respond to such "pressure" or if is no more than a technique to reach the 29th so we drop out automatically.

I don't think she will pull Tuesday vote. I think it quite possible what she says immediately afterwards will show she will continue to push for her deal while doing her best to block any alternative.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mossback
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 09:24 PM

It would be good to think that the mods also observe.

Holmes to Watson: "You see, but you do not observe."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 07:59 PM

"No interaction at all, Steve. You know it makes sense :-)"
Spoilsport
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 07:46 PM

I wasn't interacting, Dave. I was making a purely objective, in this case eyebrow-raising, observation. Whoever it was who posted those two posts, I didnt interact, merely observe. It would be good to think that the mods also observe. But who knows.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 05:40 PM

No interaction at all, Steve. You know it makes sense :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 04:31 PM

An observation.

From: Iains - PM
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:15 PM

Now you have clarified who you were insulting, you may perhaps find a reckoning in a more public forum forthcoming.


Eleven minutes later from the same poster:

From: Iains - PM
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM

Backward man you are a tad behind the curve.


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