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BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

peteaberdeen 07 Apr 19 - 02:16 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Apr 19 - 02:41 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 19 - 02:33 PM
Raggytash 07 Apr 19 - 02:25 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Apr 19 - 02:19 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Apr 19 - 02:11 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Apr 19 - 02:07 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Apr 19 - 02:04 PM
Raggytash 07 Apr 19 - 01:57 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 19 - 01:26 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Apr 19 - 01:21 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Apr 19 - 01:03 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Apr 19 - 12:58 PM
SPB-Cooperator 07 Apr 19 - 12:19 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Apr 19 - 11:45 AM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Apr 19 - 11:41 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Apr 19 - 11:06 AM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Apr 19 - 10:34 AM
DMcG 07 Apr 19 - 10:23 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 19 - 09:36 AM
Iains 07 Apr 19 - 09:35 AM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Apr 19 - 09:10 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 19 - 08:56 AM
peteaberdeen 07 Apr 19 - 08:24 AM
Iains 07 Apr 19 - 08:12 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 19 - 07:34 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 07 Apr 19 - 07:09 AM
Iains 07 Apr 19 - 06:53 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 19 - 06:53 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 07 Apr 19 - 06:52 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 07 Apr 19 - 06:50 AM
The Sandman 07 Apr 19 - 06:47 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 19 - 06:27 AM
Iains 07 Apr 19 - 06:24 AM
DMcG 07 Apr 19 - 03:47 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Apr 19 - 12:10 PM
Jim Carroll 06 Apr 19 - 11:24 AM
Dave the Gnome 06 Apr 19 - 07:20 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Apr 19 - 05:32 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Apr 19 - 04:59 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Apr 19 - 04:56 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Apr 19 - 04:54 AM
DMcG 06 Apr 19 - 04:51 AM
Iains 06 Apr 19 - 04:30 AM
Dave the Gnome 06 Apr 19 - 04:19 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 06 Apr 19 - 04:17 AM
David Carter (UK) 06 Apr 19 - 04:00 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Apr 19 - 03:55 AM
The Sandman 06 Apr 19 - 03:47 AM
DMcG 06 Apr 19 - 02:50 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:16 PM

re: this term 'leftard' now, i know i have mentioned this before and got nowhere - but it is really offensive. i work with disabled people who, over the years, have suffered many insults and derogatory and dismissive names. one of the worst is 'retard' Thankfully, it is a horrible term that we never hear in decent conversation anymore. clearly the term as used here is a mix of lefty and retard. i have asked before about people (well, iain) using the term but the mods seem quite happy with it.

please, could any mod come on here and justify tolerating such hateful language from a contributor with absolutely nothing positive to contribute.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:41 PM

I thought this thread was supposed to be about BrexShit?

BrexShit was the brain-child of The Bullingdon-Buffoon Ça-Moron, a referendum conceived in the interests of nothing more than Conservative party unity and preventing UKIP taking votes away from them. The Tories have, until a week or so ago, taken complete ownership of BrexShit - indeed they refused to make it a cross-party project right back at the beginning when Jeremy Corbyn offered to involve Labour in the negotiations.

So why, I wonder, does the computer-illiterate sociopath insist on trying to make it a party-political issue by posting continuous anti-Labour propaganda and personal abuse - much of it racist, and possibly illegal under anti-racism laws - against individual members of the party?

The obvious answer is, of course, he’s got SFA else. And a sociopathic Troll. Best to ignore him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:33 PM

Steve
He's a racist twat who keeps lying by asking for proof
I once joked that he was a mental midget - first impressions are always the most trustworthy
If teh mods are happy to see this forum used as a hate site, there's little we can do about it other than to point out his uncontrollable racism
Tommy Robinson must have got his Iron Cross ready for presentation by now - leave him to parctice his arm-raising
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:25 PM

Dave, I have not, as yet, had a reasonable response to this question from any Brexiteers.

If they can believe in Unicorns then surely I can live in hope?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:19 PM

Fingers, and everything else, crossed McG.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:11 PM

There seems to be a pretty widespread consensus in favour of just getting things sorted. But what doesn't seem to have got through to a lot of people is that any deal that got approved would just mean it all goes on like this for years and years as they keep "negotiating" the nuts and bolts. (The same would also undoubtedly be true with No Deal.)

The only way to be done with it all would be to revoke Article 50 and stay in the EU.

The europhobes could console themselves by recognising how very annoying this would be to ordinary people all over Europe who've been watching this shambles in mounting horror and with escalating derision.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:07 PM

"It is the abbacus this week, abbopotomus last week."

You've been told about this before, and the fact that you indulged in this appalling insult before, let alone think you can get away with doing it again, marks you out as easily the most disgusting and detestable presence on this forum. You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself. And don't think for one second that this will lead me into any kind of bantering with you. This is quite likely to be your swansong here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 02:04 PM

10/10 for consistency, Raggy, but I think we already know the answer:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 01:57 PM

Any good news about Brexit yet .................?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 01:26 PM

"Oh Dear! The leftards are losing it."
Oh dear - the brain-deads are beginning to feel inferior again
I notice that the abuse to elected politicians which, I was told, was "Anglo-phobic" - has now moved on from its racist wallowing black mammals
You win some, you win some
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 01:21 PM

And THIS makes absolute sense.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 01:03 PM

”UKIP counsellors now calling for 'ramainers' to be executed for treason.”

BrexShit-Bumpkins have been doing that ever since the referendum. I’ve lost count of the times I’ve been told by spittle-flecked Gammon Brexshiteers , with the veins in their necks bulging and eyes almost popping out of their sockets that, as anRemain voter, Im a ‘traitor’ who ‘should be arrested, marched out, and shot for treason’.

If they had brains, they’d be dangerous.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 12:58 PM

Funny that some who seem to think that a second referendum is undemocratic keep quiet about May's multiple votes on the same topic. Doesn't surprise me of course, given the circumstances.

As it happens, I thoroughly disagree with referendums anyway. The first was brought about because pig-sticker Cameron didn't have the balls to stand up to the right wing. The second (well, third really) could well happen because May thinks more about keeping her party in power than doing the right thing and undoing this monumental cock up. Still, if nothing else, it is showing up the Tories and their supporters on here for the uncaring, selfish twats they really are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 12:19 PM

UKIP counsellors now calling for 'ramainers' to be executed for treason.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 11:45 AM

”You can’t fix stupid”

A perfect analysis of this entire, farcical debacle of BrexShit. And not one example given in this thread of a tangible benefit to be gained by leaving the EU. Even the most bone-headed Mudcat Brexshiteer is beginning to call for revocation of A50, and for the UK to remain in the EU.

You couldn’t make it up!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/06/a-shambles-on-which-the-sun-never-sets-how-the-world-sees-brexit


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 11:41 AM

One aspect of all this is that pretty strange everyone talks as the referendum results indicated that Labour voters in all the Brexit voting seats were overwhelmingly in favour of leaving.

That isn't actually at all clear - the Brexit vote in that referendum would have included the overwhelming majority of Conservative voters, together with a section of Labour voters - and many of those Labour voters could well have been more motivated by a desire to kick the Cameron government than by leaving the EU. The fact that in the election of 2017 most of those "Labour leave" constituencies returned Labour MPs suggests that this is the right way to interpret the referendum vote.

The thing to remember is that in the 2015 election not a single MP in the UK got as much as 50 per cent of their constituency electorate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 11:06 AM

I keep quoting, here and elsewhere, David Davis from 2012...

”A democracy that cannot change its mind ceases to be a democracy”

Whether the Union-Jack-Boxers Brigade accept it or not, that is the absolute, undeniable truth.

(Note for our computer-illiterate sociopath - that’s how to post a quotation).


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 10:34 AM

I don't think anyone would doubt that if the vote in 2016 had been 52% for remain, the Brexit camp would have called for a second vote, and the Remain camp would be opposing it. That would be reasonable enough - when your side has won you'd rather not risk a rerun.

But what is hypocritical is to pretend that the reason for opposing a second vote was something to do with democratic principles, and to claim that refusing it shows that the UK is a truer democracy than Ireland, Denmark and Norway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 10:23 AM

The Incredible Leadsom has apparently said this morning
=======
"It’s not nearly as grim as many would advocate," she said. "The civil service have done an amazing job of ensuring that we minimise the problems. I’m not an advocate for no deal, but it would not be nearly as bad as many like to think it would be."
=====

Of course, it is good news the civil service has worked hard on this, but they are not in the front line, are they?

Are all small international traders ready?
Have all port and other border protection staff be trained and, where necessary further staff recruited and trained?

Have vets been recruited and trained for all physiosanitary matters arising ?

In short, the civil service preparation is a drop in the ocean. What about all the rest?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 09:36 AM

!Que?!
And that's it from the Brexiteers
Tw letters short of a the description of the line of lorries from Fishguard to the Channel Tunnel
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 09:35 AM

McGrath of Harlow No One would argue with a second referendum had the first been implemented and a decent period of time elapsed. To ignore the first referendum negates the legitimacy of any subsequent one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 09:10 AM

Dorothy Parker's ode always remind me of Chesterton's ballade about having second thoughts on suicide - which is equally apposite:

The gallows in my garden, people say,
Is new and neat and adequately tall;
I tie the noose on in a knowing way
As one that knots his necktie for a ball;
But just as all the neighbours–on the wall–
Are drawing a long breath to shout “Hurray!”
The strangest whim has seized me. . . . After all
I think I will not hang myself to-day.

To-morrow is the time I get my pay–
My uncle’s sword is hanging in the hall–
I see a little cloud all pink and grey–
Perhaps the rector’s mother will not call– I fancy that I heard from Mr. Gall
That mushrooms could be cooked another way–
I never read the works of Juvenal–
I think I will not hang myself to-day.

The world will have another washing-day;
The decadents decay; the pedants pall;
And H.G. Wells has found that children play,
And Bernard Shaw discovered that they squall,
Rationalists are growing rational–
And through thick woods one finds a stream astray
So secret that the very sky seems small–
I think I will not hang myself to-day.

ENVOI

Prince, I can hear the trumpet of Germinal,
The tumbrils toiling up the terrible way;
Even to-day your royal head may fall,
I think I will not hang myself to-day.


I'd have thought that those Brexiteers who complain, quite rightly, that all the deals that are available are worse than staying in the EU would welcome the opportunity to vote for that as a second best, if they can't get the No Deal they might prefer. In fact getting No Deal bput on such a ballot in a three option vote (with an alternative vote system of voting) would offer the way to get that preferred option, if that is really what people want. (And we know how keen they are about carrying out the will of the people...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 08:56 AM

It really is time those who genuinely support Brexit started to enter into this debate rather than using it as a rabid-right soapbox
I've lost count of the number of times people have asked what the benefits of leaving Europe are as distinct from staying and trying to change what they disagree with - Britain has been little more than a silent and begrudging member of the EU since day one, based on the old Empire adage, "If we can't control it, it's no use to us"
Now the Government has Britain's future in the hands of scummy populists like Farage (and his queue of be-robed and be-turbaned foreign invaders)
Patriots like the Mudcat incumbents, stand by and cheer the worst elements of the British establishment claiming that to hold out for the best deal is 'treachery'
None of them has the gumption nor the imagination to put forward a rational argument - just abuse (as shown by the latest deeply thought out offering)
If Britain can sell planes to slaughter the Yemenis (while at the same time blocking any chance of giving the victims refuge) Corbyn's actions of supporting the Palestinians fight against ethnic cleansing put him in line for sainthood
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 08:24 AM

is this just all an elaborate and tedious wind-up, iain. if so , it's offensive nonsense

mods?.....please give us a break

Working on it. Most have been deleted; apologies if responses are still in place, the posts were taken out in one fell swoop, away from the thread. ---mudcat techie
And many non-abusive posts that are simply objectionable to some have been UNdeleted. -Mudcat ratheroffendedbyopinionatedmodding mod


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 08:12 AM

A shame peabrain cannot distinguish between a man's personal wealth and an investment company that invests in emerging markets. A tad too technical for him to comprehend(like so many other things)

The fine Mr Rees Mogg can hold his head up high unlike commie corbyn,
a chef extroidinaire!

https://order-order.com/2019/04/05/corbyns-evidence-shows-cooking-books-terrorist-wreath-laying-trip/

from Guido of course. The scourge of bubbleheaded leftards!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 07:34 AM

That would go well with a Billie Holliday tune Bonnie
Might add, "Can't help loathing that Mogg of mine"
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 07:09 AM

To paraphrase Dorothy Parker, who famously wrote of attempting suicide:

Razors pain you
Rivers are damp
Acids stain you
And drugs cause cramp

Guns aren't lawful
Nooses give
Gas smells awful
You might as well live



Brussels or London
You don't have a say
If you're going to be undone
You might as well stay


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 06:53 AM

A soft brexit is being subjected to the EU in all its glory with no more representation. Such an agreement would be the height of stupidity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 06:53 AM

THE MIGHTY MOGG
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 06:52 AM

[Cross-posted with Dick]

Grease Smog also moved a few of his millions to Dublin. The word "hypocrite' doesn't even begin to be strong enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 06:50 AM

Where have you seen that, Jim? Couldn't find it in any of my usual haunts, but they're not comprehensive. I'm interested to know more - all I can find is that her cabinet are furious with her for even talking (or going through the motions of talking) to Corbyn. Are there any links?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 06:47 AM

a soft brexit means the uk leaves the EU but is in the equivalent of the EEC a fairly sensible compromise imo, we are not fighting the second world war, rees mogg is a hypocrite he avises his investors to invest in the euro yet talks about no deal , the man represents the interests of the very wealthy


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 06:27 AM

It's reported this morning that May has offered Corbyn a 'Boris-proof' Brexit - a soft Brexit that cannot be overturned by future Governments
That should cause a bit of stir in the Tory Monkey-house
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 06:24 AM

If the outcome of the first referendum is thwarted what is the point of a second?
   Do you not think a wrong answer will be denied again?

This is of course the EU way - reminiscent of "hotel California" -
keep resubmitting the question until the right answer is obtained


A little jog for the memory:
This has happened three times in EU referendums – in Denmark on the Maastricht Treaty in 1992-3, Ireland on the Nice Treaty in 2001-2, and Ireland again on the Lisbon Treaty in 2008-9 – with all of these referendums ultimately proving successful for those backing the treaty.

For the EU it is a war of attrition.

The mighty Rees Mogg has the right idea, ably backed by the inestimable Mr Farage

We shall fight them on the beaches........................!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Apr 19 - 03:47 AM

I was reading about a recent survey on a further referendum and it seems the majority are keen that 'we should be free to pursue our own trade deals.'

What a surprise. But let us phrase the same question differently. "we should be forced to   renegotiate all our own trade deals, whether or not they are poorer than the existing ones."

Somehow I don't think that would be as popular.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 19 - 12:10 PM

"Anyhoo, Dave is absolutely correct - there’s no profit in engaging with an ITC-illiterate sociopath,
Me too - couldn't help pointing out that this "anti-Tommy Robinsonite" spent a fair tim in handing a petition around to try and get him out of nick, while gloating as the number of signatures rose
A classic "I wish I hadn't done that"
Fun over
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 19 - 11:24 AM

"I do not think any rational person would welcome that as an outcome."
As you say "Oh dear"
Talk about shutting the closet door after the skeleton has emerged with a petition in its hand
Too late - too late, the maiden cried
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 19 - 07:20 AM

Far better left alone. Kicking that kind of shit does nothing but leave a nasty smell and make a mess of your shoes.

Anyone for keeping to the point and commenting on this?

Tory minister says taking part in EU elections would be 'suicide note' for party

Not often I hope that a Tory is right but fingers crossed on this one :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Apr 19 - 05:32 AM

Anyhoo, Dave is absolutely correct - there’s no profit in engaging with an ITC-illiterate sociopath, so I’ll leave him to carry on with his usual abusive behaviour. I’m off to do something worthwhile. ‘Bye now...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 19 - 04:59 AM

Magnificent quater-page headline on from page of the Daily Express - set our ocan farmers all of a-giggle
BREXIT BETRAYED
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Apr 19 - 04:56 AM

That was for the Belly-Dancer, by the way, not DMcG. And only a muppet would post a quote with no indication whatsoever that it’s a quote.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Apr 19 - 04:54 AM

Source?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Apr 19 - 04:51 AM

There's also the matter of differing food-safety standards....

You are absolutely right, Bonnie, there is far more to it than a simple financial balance sheet. The regulations are important, the social rights and benefits of your citizens are important, the environmental aspects are important ... It goes on and on. That's why I said "purely economics" a couple of times. It is not that the rest of that does not matter, it is that even if you restrict yourself just to the economic argument the case to leave is feeble according to all but one relatively tiny segment of the economists.

Moving onto David Carter's point: again, I agree. Assessment of whether a trade agreement is to your benefit or not is horrendously complicated and also time dependent. You might carry out a vast and sophisticated assessment and come a conclusion then something like the OPEC oil agreements come along and change everything. Economics is not 'truth', it is more like a formal encoding of a decision process, which is only ever as good as your base assumptions.   But, to take a trivial example, suppose decide to enter into a 5 year trade agreement with one country to trade in a certain way, but then another country becomes a potential supplier who can provide the same thing cheaper but differing in some other way. You have to make an assessment to stay with your original supplier, switch or take a proportion from each. That is an unavoidable decision - even not thinking about implicitly decides to stay as you are - and businesses and countries have to do that all the time. Just being immensely difficult and risky due to uncertainties doesn't stop you having to do so, either explicitly or implicitly,


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 06 Apr 19 - 04:30 AM

Iains isn't "relying" on anything otherwise he would have humiliated everybody by putting something up (which is what he tries to do) by putting it up - he made the definitive up in desperation on the spur of the moment
Do you think double posting your tortured abuse of the english language adds clarity? Think again!

"Take a customs union on its own first. A customs union would create far less friction to trade in goods. It would be easier to keep vital manufacturing supply chains intact and it would obviate the need for the customs part of the Irish backstop, as long as agriculture was included. But it would also mean that Britain could not operate an independent trade policy in respect of goods, because we would be obliged by the EU to operate its external tariff rather than vary our own in bilateral trade agreements with non-EU countries.
The biggest shortcoming of a customs union, however – and it is a major shortcoming – is that it does not in itself address the issue of regulatory alignment between the UK and the EU that single market membership gives us. This is the principal guarantee of the barrier-free trade we enjoy currently with the EU and why every alternative to membership will leave us worse off.
For this reason, many MPs are looking to a deeper agreement with the EU, one they call common market 2.0, which in addition to a customs union would mean continuing membership of the single market. The attraction is obvious: it would keep the UK close to its most important trading partner while fulfilling the mandate to leave the EU. It comes with a set of institutions based on the existing European Economic Area through which the UK could potentially influence (but not determine) EU policy and incur reduced UK payments for market access.
The disadvantages are equally clear. Britain would have to operate EU rules, without a vote or a veto, for both goods and services – becoming a rule taker – making it largely pointless to leave. Free movement of people would also continue. Yes, there is provision for an emergency brake on migration but this would not give Britain “control” of its borders."

A hotel California brexit!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 19 - 04:19 AM

I may well nip to mozzers myself later then Steve if it is down to £5.59 - £4.95 with my discount :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 06 Apr 19 - 04:17 AM

There's also the matter of differing food-safety standards. In addition to chlorinated chicken issues, Trump has now appointed the pork industry as gatekeepers for... the pork industry. His reasoning is that if their meat is bad, they'll get sued, so it's in their best interest to keep their stuff clean. (Not a whisper about all those people who could die from eating it, or get seriously sick and not be able to afford medical care.) Good luck with that, if you start importing from some of your potential trading partners.

Oh, and nuclear plants get to self-regulate too. Welcome to your new buddy.

Please excuse lack of hyperlinks - I can't get the clickifier to work:

That [above] is the essence of the Trump administration's argument for getting rid of about 40 percent of federal pork inspectors. By next month, according to The Washington Post, the pork plants themselves will be in charge of "identifying and removing live diseased hogs when they arrive at the plants"—as opposed to the USDA's Food Safety and Inspection Service...

https://www.foodsafetymagazine.com/news/pork-industry-to-begin-policing-its-own-food-safety-system/

https://www.motherjones.com/food/2019/04/trump-is-about-to-make-the-pork-industry-responsible-for-inspecting-itself/

https://newrepublic.com/article/153465/its-not-just-pork-trump-also-letting-nuclear-plants-regulate-safety


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 06 Apr 19 - 04:00 AM

DMcG, how does a country assess whether a trade deal is to its benefit? To often this debate is set by the views of domestic producers. However consumers need to be considered also. A trade deficit is not bad per se, it means that consumers are getting lots of nice things from the country they are imported from. Neither imports nor exports are bad, really the benefit of the trade is the total volume, not the difference between exports and imports. And the problem is that the people doing the assessing, allegedly on behalf of the country, are looking at only one side.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Apr 19 - 03:55 AM

”Is the backwardman boasting or complaining? Then again,who cares?

I find it rather sad you feel the need to boast in order to make a point.
I was using mini computers as a tool over 45 years ago. so what?”


Nope, no ‘boasting’ at all. Merely giving some background regarding my IT capabilities and experience as a response to your completely unsubstantiated accusation that I ’seem incapable of carrying out a simple internet search’.

You really do have extreme comprehension problems, and a serious social-skill deficit, don’t you?

If you haven’t the acquired the skill to post a working clickable link on the forum, you might like to take a little time out from insulting and abusing other members and study Joe Offer’s ‘Basic Mudcat HTML’ post in the ’Mudcat FAQ - Newcomer’s Guide’. It’s very simple - almost anyone could do it.

Now, back to that direct question you’ve carefully belly-danced around...I’m guessing that, as usual, you don’t have the cojones to answer, but that’s OK, I know the answer anyway, and it doesn’t show you in a good light.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Apr 19 - 03:47 AM

Edwina Currie in a nushell might be tickle JohnMajors fancy but she doesnt do it for me


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Apr 19 - 02:50 AM

Maybe so, Nigel, but if so it is a very biased quotation.    I don't think I am alone in freely admitting there are disadvantages to a customs union, but that is not the point. There are also advantages (as that link also points out), and the key factor from an economics viewpoint is which is greater.

I said somewhere in these threads over a year ago - I can't be bothered to track it down - that as a purely economics question it is very reasonable for any country to continually assess all its trade deals and determine if they are to its benefit or not. If not, then it is sensible to seek to change them. So - again in purely economics terms - it is reasonable to examine whether the EU relationship is a good idea or not continually and act accordingly. But my assessment, and those of most economics apart from the Minford school, it that the arrangement is in the UK's favour.


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