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Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy

DigiTrad:
BLACK JACK DAVEY
BLACK JACK DAVY
BLACK JACK DAVY (IN ATLANTIC CITY)
BLACKJACK DAVEY (2)
BLACKJACK DAVID
CLAYTON BOONE
GYPSIE LADDIE
GYPSY DAVEY
GYPSY LADDIES
GYPSY ROVER
HARRISON BRADY
SEVEN GYPSIES ON YON HILL
THE GYPSY LADDIE
THE GYPSY LADDIE (4)
THE HIPPIES AND THE BEATNIKS
THE LADY AND THE GYPSY
THE WRAGGLE-TAGGLE GYPSIES
WHEN CARNAL FIRST CAME TO ARKANSAS


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: What is your favorite Blackjack Davy? (15)
Lyr Req: Gypsies (Cathal McConnell, Child #200) (5)
(origins) Origins: Help with Gypsy Davy (90)
Wraggle Taggle Gypsies in translation (3)
Lyr Req: Seven Yellow Gypsies (Dolores Keane) (8)
Chord Req:This version of Black Jack Davey (Heron) (13)
(origins) Origins: Clayton Boone (Child #200) (10)
Lyr Req: Gipsy Countess (8)
Lyr Add: The wraggle taggle Gipsies, O! (16)
Lyr Req: Gypsy Davy (Doc and Richard Watson) (4)
Black Jack Davey Dylan (27)
Black Jack Davy - origin of phrase? (26)
Lyr Req: Hippies and the Beatniks (Miles Wootton) (28)
Origins of raggle-taggle (9)
Lyr Req: The Gypsy Laddie (Tannahill Weavers) (10)
Chord Req: gypsy davy (3)
Lyr Req: Gypsy Laddie (Jean Redpath #200) (8)
Lyr Req: Black Jack Davy (Sheila Kay Adams #200) (6)
Lyr Req: Raggle taggle gypsy (26)
Tune Req: jeannie robertson's gypsy laddies (3)
Lyr Req: Raggle Taggle Gypsie 'O (12)
Tune Req: Raggle Taggle Gypsy Oh ! (7)
looking for Johnny Faw songs (Johnny Faa) (8)
Help: History of Blackjack David-y-ey (30)
Lyr Req: Wraggle Taggle Gypsy (10)
(origins) Origin: Raggle-Taggle Gypsy (6)


GUEST,Jerome Clark 18 Jul 16 - 08:07 PM
GUEST,JeffB 18 Jul 16 - 06:01 PM
GUEST,anton 18 Jul 16 - 04:50 PM
GUEST,Reinhard (11 Feb 2015) 22 Feb 15 - 02:06 AM
GUEST,Padraig (10 Feb 2015) 22 Feb 15 - 02:05 AM
GUEST,mayomick (28 Jan 2015) 22 Feb 15 - 02:04 AM
GUEST 22 Feb 15 - 02:03 AM
Ged Fox 15 Sep 14 - 08:25 AM
GUEST,Rob Currie 19 Sep 12 - 01:14 PM
Ged Fox 10 Sep 12 - 02:31 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Sep 12 - 06:42 AM
GUEST,Amy 08 Sep 12 - 09:42 PM
GUEST 10 May 12 - 03:53 PM
Reinhard 26 Sep 09 - 03:54 PM
Genie 26 Sep 09 - 12:53 PM
Diva 29 Jul 09 - 03:59 AM
GUEST,Thomas 28 Jul 09 - 12:32 PM
Terry McDonald 24 Mar 09 - 12:34 PM
Jim Dixon 24 Mar 09 - 11:36 AM
Saro 28 Apr 08 - 06:38 AM
pavane 28 Apr 08 - 05:41 AM
GUEST 27 Apr 08 - 08:41 AM
GUEST,Chris Smith 12 Jan 07 - 02:36 PM
unvarnished 12 Jan 07 - 12:07 PM
The Fooles Troupe 04 Oct 04 - 01:01 AM
The Fooles Troupe 04 Oct 04 - 12:54 AM
GUEST 03 Oct 04 - 11:03 AM
Leadfingers 11 Sep 04 - 06:14 AM
Leadfingers 11 Sep 04 - 05:59 AM
GUEST 11 Sep 04 - 12:16 AM
GUEST,stace 12 Jun 04 - 11:01 AM
hobbitwoman 09 Mar 04 - 09:14 PM
Leadfingers 09 Mar 04 - 08:26 PM
GUEST,DeadMan 09 Mar 04 - 08:05 PM
IanC 21 Mar 03 - 04:39 AM
Desert Dancer 21 Mar 03 - 01:21 AM
robinia 20 Mar 03 - 01:32 AM
open mike 19 Mar 03 - 02:34 AM
Desert Dancer 19 Mar 03 - 01:37 AM
Malcolm Douglas 18 Mar 03 - 07:52 PM
Desert Dancer 18 Mar 03 - 07:33 PM
GUEST,Arne Langsetmo 12 Oct 02 - 01:16 PM
belfast 12 Oct 02 - 08:24 AM
Nerd 11 Oct 02 - 01:09 PM
MikeOQuinn 11 Oct 02 - 05:31 AM
old moose 11 Oct 02 - 12:34 AM
GUEST,Jim Clark..London..England 10 Oct 02 - 08:38 PM
GUEST,johnnie 09 Oct 02 - 11:29 PM
GUEST,Zorikh 15 Sep 02 - 03:39 PM
GUEST,Nerd 10 Apr 02 - 02:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST,Jerome Clark
Date: 18 Jul 16 - 08:07 PM

Ian Tyson's album Carnero Vaquero (Stony Plain, 2015) features a brilliant modern retelling of the story.   "Jughound Ronnie" is credited to Tyson and Kris Demeanor. It incorporates some traditional lyrics and scraps of the older melody (or one of them).


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST,JeffB
Date: 18 Jul 16 - 06:01 PM

My favourite version was found by the American collector James Madison Carpenter. He is better known for the collection of shanties he made in the 1930s, but at some point he was in Oxfordshire where he met a mason called George Giles, who gave him a fine version he called "The daggle-tailed gypsies". Or perhaps he called it "The draggled-tailed gypsies" and Carpenter mis-heard him: it was recorded from Mr Giles under the latter title by Alfred Williams.

Wiltshire County Council's website has a section which holds over 1000 of the texts Williams collected in Wiltshire and Oxfordshire in the folk arts/song search page at https://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/community/folk
It also includes the version Mr Giles gave to Carpenter with the tune.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST,anton
Date: 18 Jul 16 - 04:50 PM

Refer to
Matty Groves
Tam Links
Tir Na Nog


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST,Reinhard (11 Feb 2015)
Date: 22 Feb 15 - 02:06 AM

The version of "The Dark-Eyed Gypsy" in the last posting seems to be from the singing of Joe Holmes as printed in David Cooper's book The Musical Traditions of Northern Ireland and its Diaspora, page 41.


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Subject: ADD Version: The Dark-Eyed Gypsy
From: GUEST,Padraig (10 Feb 2015)
Date: 22 Feb 15 - 02:05 AM

Yet another version of the same song.

The Dark-Eyed Gypsy

1
There were three gypsies lived in the East,
And they were braw and bonnie O,
They sang so sweet at the castle gate,
That they charmed the heart of the lady, O.

2
She gave to them the sparkling wine
She gave to them the brandy, O,
And the gay golden ring that the lady wore,
She gave to the dark-eyed gypsy,O.

3
When the lord of the castle he came home,
And enquired for his lady, O,
"She is gone, she is gone" said the young servant boy,
"She's away with the dark-eyed gypsy, O.

4
"Go saddle for me my milk white steed,
The bay is not so speedy, O,
And I'll ride for a day and a whole long night,
Till I find my own wedded Lady, O."

5
Then Giles put his spurs unto his horse,
And off he rode so speedy, O,
Until he fell in with his own wedded love,
Along with the dark-eyed gypsy, O.

6
"Will you forsake your house and your land?
Will you forsake your children three?"
"I would leave them all for the one I love,
And I'll follow my dark-eyed gypsy, O."

7
"Last night I lay on a fine feather bed,
My own wedded lord beside me, O,
But tonight I'll lie on a cold barn floor,
In the arms of my dark-eyed gypsy, O."


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST,mayomick (28 Jan 2015)
Date: 22 Feb 15 - 02:04 AM

Roving Ploughboy

Chorus:
Ploughboy-o, ploughboy-o
Follow the rovin' ploughboy-o

Saddle tae me my old grey mare
Saddle tae me my pony-o
And noo she's on the road and she's far far awa'
Awa' wi' her rovin' ploughboy-o

Champion ploughboy her Geordie lad
Cups and medals and prizes-o
In bonnie Deveron-side there is none can compare
Wi' the jolly rovin' ploughboy-o

Yestreen she lay in a fine feather bed
Sheets and blankets sae cosy-o
And noo she maun lie in a cauld barn-shed
Ro'ed in the arms o' her ploughboy-o

Fare thee weel tae auld Huntly toon
Fare thee weel Drumdelgie-o
And noo she's on the road and she's far far awa'
Awa' wi' her rovin' ploughboy-o

http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=69590


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Feb 15 - 02:03 AM

GUEST,riverdan

I am pretty sure this is the one you meant.

Jeannie Robertson - Gypsy Laddie


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: Ged Fox
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 08:25 AM

Baring-Gould's versions:
Gipsy Countess Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XJNOf0X9O8

and part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TspVTFtNelk


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST,Rob Currie
Date: 19 Sep 12 - 01:14 PM

What has always intrigued me about this song is the melody; it doesn't feel at all like it comes from the British Isles, to me. There are references above to there being versions from elsewhere in Europe. Anyone ever read anything about the tune itself? Is it, say, Roma in origin, or is that too twee?


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: Ged Fox
Date: 10 Sep 12 - 02:31 PM

The version in Baring-Gould's Songs of the West has the wife as a gipsy woman, married against her inclinations to an earl (The Gipsy Countess, part 1.) In the second part, the wife runs away back to the gipsies, but when she rejects the earl and his wealth, and says she'll sleep in the wide open field,
" 'Nay, thou shalt not!'
Then he drew, I wot,
The sword that hung at his saddle bow.
And once he smote at her lily-white throat,
And there her red blood down did flow.

Then stained with blood, was the posie good,
THat was of the wildest flow'rs that blow.
She sank on her side, and so she died,
For she would away with the gipsies-o"


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Sep 12 - 06:42 AM

Interesting piece (to me anyway) from 'Chambers's Miscellany of Useful and Entertaining Tracts, Vol 16' William and Robert Chambers (eds.), Edinburgh, 1847
Jim Carroll

ANECDOTES OF THE SCOTTISH GIPSIES.

One of the earliest anecdotes of the Scottish gipsies is that of "Johnnie Faa, the Gipsy Laddie," who eloped with the lady of the Earl of Cassilis. This story rests on tradition, and on an old ballad; the facts, so far as they can he gathered, are thus related in the "Picture of Scotland." "John, the sixth Earl of Cassilis, a stern Covenanter, of whom it is recorded by Bishop Burnet that he would never permit his language to he understood but in its direct sense, obtained to wife Lady Jean Hamilton, a daughter of Thomas, first Earl of Haddington, who had raised himself from the Scottish bar to a peerage, and the best fortune of his time. The match seems to have been dictated by policy; and it is not likely that Lady Jean herself had much to say in the bargain. On the contrary, says report, she had been previously beloved by a gallant young knight, a Sir John Faa of Dunbar, who had perhaps seen her at her father's seat of Tyningham, which is not more than three miles from that town. When several years were gone, and Lady Cassilis had brought her husband three children, this passion led to a dreadful catastrophe. Her youthful lover, seizing an opportunity when the Earl of Cassilis was attending the Assembly of Divines at Westminster, came to Cassilis Castle, a massive old tower, on the banks of the Doon. He was dis¬guised as a gipsy, and attended by a band of these desperate out¬casts. The countess consented to elope with her lover. Ere they had proceeded very far, however, the earl came home, and immediately set out in pursuit. Accompanied by a band which put resistance out of the question, he overtook them, and captured the whole party at a ford over the Doon, still called the ' Gipsies' Steps,' a few miles from the castle. He brought them back to Cassilis, and there hanged all the gipsies, including the hapless Sir John, upon ' the Dule Tree,' a splendid and most umbrageous plane, which yet nourishes on a mound, in front of the castle gate, and which was his gallows in ordinary, as the name testifies—

'And we were fifteen weel-made men,
Although we were na bonnie;
And we were a' put down for ane—
A fair young wanton lady.'

The countess was taken by her husband to a window in front of the castle, and there compelled to survey the dreadful scene—to-see, one after another, fifteen gallant men put to death—and at last to witness the dying agonies of him who had first been dear to her. The particular room in the stately old house where the unhappy lady endured this horrible torture, is still called ' The Countess's Room.' After undergoing a short confinement in that apartment, the house belonging to the family at Maybole was fitted up for her reception, by the addition of a fine projecting staircase, upon which were carved heads, representing those of her lover and his band; and she was removed thither, and con¬fined for the rest of her life—the earl, in the meantime, marry¬ing another wife. One of her daughters was afterwards married! to the celebrated Gilbert Burnet. The effigies of the gipsies oh the staircase at Maybole are very minute; the head of Johnnie Faa himself is distinct from the rest, large, and more lachry¬mose in the expression of the features." Such is the story; but whether the hero, who is here called Sir John Faa of Dunbar, was himself of gipsy blood, as the ballad bears, and as tradition asserts, or whether he was merely in such intimacy with the gipsies as to obtain their aid in the adventure, cannot be decisively ascertained. It may be mentioned, however, that the colony of gipsies long-established in Yetholm, in Roxburghshire, always claimed to be of the same stock with the Faws or Falls, a family of respecta¬bility settled in East-Lothian, and of which the hero of the ballad may have been a scion, holding some rank in Scottish society, and yet keeping- up a connexion with his outcast kindred.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST,Amy
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 09:42 PM

Another variation on the theme:

Beggars to God
Words & Music by Bob Franke

The song of Gypsy Davy rang delighted through the night
The wise & foolish virgin kept her candle burning bright
Rise up my young & foolish one & follow if you can
There'll be no need for candles in the arms of such a man

Chorus:

Make love to each other, be free with each other
Be prisoners of love til you lie in the sod
Be friends to each other, forgive one another
See God in each other: be beggars to God

The night was cold & dark & wet as they wandered on alone
The sky became their canopy, the earth became their throne
And as their raiment ran to rags, they thought it nothing wrong
For earth & sky are robe enough when you sing the Gypsies' song

They sang & played the Gypsies' song wherever they were sent
To some it seemed a dancing tune - to some, a sad lament
But in ev'ry heart that heard them true a tear became a smile
And a pauper or a prince became a Gypsy for a while

©1983 Telephone Pole Music Publishing Co(BMI)


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 12 - 03:53 PM

The great version of "Black Jack Davey" done on "Songcatcher II The Tradition That Inspired The Movie" was sung by Almeda Riddle. Someone earlier had mentioned this. I think she deserves to be named. She kept over 500 ballads in her repetoire, and often had numerous versions of the same songs. She was born in 1898 and was an incredible lady.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: Reinhard
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 03:54 PM

Also, it's quite implausible that the gypsies were hanged a year after Lady Hamilton's death. I'd rather have expected an immediate trial and execution.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Gypsy Laddie / Blackjack Davey
From: Genie
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 12:53 PM

Maybe someone can help me with this.

Right now Wikipedia (that oh, so, reliable source!) has this blurb about the origins of the song "Gypsy Laddie" and it's variants:

[["The ballad, according to Tosches, retells the story of John Faw, a 17th century outlaw, described as a Gypsy, and Lady Jane Hamilton, wife of John Kennedy, 6th Earl of Cassilis. Lord Cassilis led a band of men (some sources say 16, other 7) to abduct her. They were caught and hanged on the "Dool Tree" in 1643. The "Gypsies" were killed (except for one, who escaped) and Lady Jane Hamilton was imprisoned for the remainder of her life, dying in 1642."]]

Wikipedia: The Gypsy Laddie

I know that Barry said above that no connection has been established between any Cassilis and a gypsy, but I'm also curious as to whether whoever submitted that info at Wiki meant to say that Johnny Faw (or another gypsy) led a band of men to abduct Lady Jane H.
It seems weird that if a husband led a band of men to rescue his wife from kidnappers it would be called "abduction" and even more odd that, even if the wife had willingly run off with the gypsies, the husband and his cohorts would be hanged for "abducting" his own wife from the gypsies.
Lord Cassilis was not hanged, was he?


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: Diva
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 03:59 AM

Heard a version last year from a singer from home (Ayrshire) that actually mentions Ayr, Dalrymple and Maybole. I was talking to Joe Rae of Beith at the weekend and he informs me Child got the dates wrong. For those who do not know him Joe is an oracle and his wealth of knowledge of songs and ballads is superb.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST,Thomas
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 12:32 PM

I have a book called "English folk-songs for schools" from the turn of the last century, I think collated by Cecil Sharp and Sabine Baring Gould witch does say he collected a version from Somerset. the song is entitled "No. 1. The Wraggle Taggle Gipsies, O!". In the intro for the book it is stated it comes from "Folk-songs from Somerset" by Mr. Sharp and Rev. C Marson...


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 24 Mar 09 - 12:34 PM

Saro - eleven months late, but Barry Dransfield has a last verse to 'Gypsy Davey' on his 'Wings of the Sphinx' album which goes:

The Master he went home that night
And took good care of his baby-o
And e're six months had passed and gone
He's married another lady-o.

Not quite what you mentioned, but a (presumably) satisfactory conclusion for the husband.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Mar 09 - 11:36 AM

THE WRAGGLE-TAGGLE GYPSIES is mentioned in A History of Music in England by Ernest Walker (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1907):
    But historical doubts need not hinder us from enjoying the music that, within the last ten years or so, has begun to pour in upon us from all parts of England ... [such as] ... 'The wraggle-taggle gipsies' (Somerset Folk-songs, vol. i) ....
I have been unable to identify any book with the exact title "Somerset Folk-Songs" so I suspect he meant "Folk Songs from Somerset" gathered and edited with pianoforte accompaniment, by Cecil J. Sharp and Charles L. Marson (London: Simpkin, 1905).

The latter book doesn't seem to be viewable online.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: Saro
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 06:38 AM

CMR and the Askew sisters are working on a Hampshire version which gardiner collected from Mrs. Goodyear in 1907 (apologies if this has been mentioned earlier). It only mentions two gipsies, but Hampshire was a very poor county at the time so we probably couldn't afford any more... Though come to think of it, bearing in mind the area I live in, if more than two were seen walking around together they would probably have been arrested under some public order legislation, or maybe for singing or whistling in public without a license, but I digress...

Incidentally has anyone heard a song which tells a sequel to the 7 (or what you will) Gipsies?   In this song, the lady returns a year or more later, cold and hungry and with a baby. Her former husband invites her in, gives her food and money, but then tells her to go away for ever, as he can never forgive her for deserting him. I haven't heard any other replies giving the man's point of view before.

Saro


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: pavane
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 05:41 AM

Probably worth mentioning that Barry Skinner used to sing a version called The Treble Tail Gypsies, but unfortunately he can't remember exactly where he learned it.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 08:41 AM

Has any one heard of an irish Trad band called "The Raggle Taggle Gypsies", if so I would be very grateful for a gigs lisings


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST,Chris Smith
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 02:36 PM

Looking back in this thread, I find a reference to Martin Simpson's c2000 performances of a version of this song. I heard him do it live but have not been able to locate his CD version (if one exists). Can anyone tell me?

Many thanks for any info.

cjs

chris@coyotebanjo.com


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Subject: Another great version of Gypsy Davy
From: unvarnished
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 12:07 PM

Thanks to Malcolm Douglas for his compendium of postings on this subject. I couldn't find any reference to the version done by Tim Eriksen of Cordelia's Dad on their CD "Comet" (1995). He does a wonderful job of singing and playing, just him, his authentic sounding singing, and a nice acoustic guitar acommpaniment. The notes say he got 6 of the verses from a 1941 recording of Lena Bourne "Grammy" Fish of East Jaffrey, New Hampshire. He describes the song as being "about a woman of great imagination and wit, and her husband who has neither." The recording has 15 verses in all, some of them similar to the Richard Dyer-Bennet version of Raggle-Taggle Gypsies. The tune is a little different from, but related to the "Gypsy Rover" tune. I transcribed this from listening to the CD:

Gypsy Davy
(as performed by Cordelia's Dad)

The gypsy king came over the hill
Defying storm and danger
It seemed to be my lot to fall
In love with the dark-eyed stranger.

I gave to him of the good wheat bread
And he gave to me the ginger
I gave to him a better thing,
All the gold from off my fingers.

And he has asked me to be his wife
To be his honoured lady
He's asked me to leave my home and kin
And follow the Gypsy Davy.

Oh they tell me to marry beneath my rank
Is nothing short of danger
But title and gold cannot compare
With my love for the dark-eyed stranger.

So she's taken off her high heeled shoes
All made of Spanish leather
She's gone down in her loyal shoes
And they rode off together.

Oh they rode high and they rode low
They rode so late and early
They rode til they come to the dark blue sea
And oh but she was weary.

Last night I slept in a down feather bed
An honoured and titled lady
But tonight I'll sleep in the green, green field
In the arms of my Gypsy Davy.

And when the lord come home in the night
Inquiring for his lady
The servants made him this reply:
She's gone with the Gypsy Davy.

Go saddle to me my little yellow mare
The gray one's not so speedy
I rode all day and I rode all night
So I'll overtake my lady

Oh he rode to the dark blue sea
It looked so dark and dreary
There he spied his own dear bride
By the side of the Gypsy Davy.

Oh will you come home my dear, my love?
Will you come home my darling?
I'll keep you safe in a close, close room
Where no man will ever come near you.

No I won't come home my dear, my love
I'll not come home my darling
If I brew good beer, I'll drink the same
And you'll no more come near me.

So she's taken off her long blue gloves
All made of Spanish leather
She waved farewell with a little white hand
She waver farewell forever.

Saying, I do not envy any honoured queen
Or any titled lady
I'd rather be a gypsy queen,
The bride of my black-eyed Davy.

Last night I slept in a down feather bed
An honoured and titled lady
But tonight I'll sleep in the green, green field
In the arms of my Gypsy Davy.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 01:01 AM

BTW, on the Penny Black Music Page, there is a Google Ad

"Large selection for sale from cheap and cheerful to Superb"

Is this for the Band or the Stamp?

Maybe the the Band's new slogan... or a new CD title ?

(Do I get a freebie for suggesting the title if you use it?)

:P

Robin


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 12:54 AM

So have you got "The Raggle Taggle Black Jack Gypsy Davy came Whistling Over the Hill With Six Of His Mates' Words? and which tune? :-)

I'm offically asking LeadFingers... :-)


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Subject: hobnail boots
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 11:03 AM

can anyone enlighten me? My grandmother used to sing a song to me as a child, but the only bit I can remember is the last line, which I think gets repeated several times throughout the song, and it is "the hobnail boots that father wore"
I would love to be reminded of the words to this song - if anyone knows what it is.
Thanks


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 06:14 AM

Incidentally , Do I score any points for the hundredth post to a thread ?


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 05:59 AM

I still like the Louis Robinson rewrite 'The Raggle Taggle Black Jack Gypsy Davy came Whistling Over the Hill With Six Of His Mates' - It was written so that whichever 'Gypsy' song was requested , the song fitted .


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 12:16 AM

If you are asking about the Chieftans irish band the album is called "Further Down the Old Plank Road", they are a band playing traditional irish music, this is a second album from concert session pairing this tradional irish band with well known musicians mostly troubadors of country music. The first alblum is called of course "The Old Plank Road" . "Further.." is available from the Victor record label #82876-52897-2, I got mine from towerrecords.com. I also have a recording of the song from German countertenor Andeas Scholl the album is "Wayfaring Stranger-Folksongs". the concept of this recording is to take the old European songs back from America and reinterpret them by a modern European singer. The Songcather second soundtrack albun (not songs from the movie, but old folksong that "inspired" the movie has a great version of "Black Jack Davey"


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST,stace
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 11:01 AM

do any of you know of the irish band the raggle taggle gypsies and where i can get info on them??


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: hobbitwoman
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 09:14 PM

There's a recording of The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy on Further Down the Old Plank Road, performed by The Chieftans with Nickel Creek. Or Nickel Creek with The Chieftans. Not sure which. :o)


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 08:26 PM

An old mate ( Louis Robinson by name) was in a 'Folk Group' which did gigs in a lot of NON Folk venues. They used to get a lot of requests for various versions of this song, and rather than learn them all or
tell the customer they didnt know the song, Louis wrote a song that would fit , Whichever was requested. The song he wrote is called :-
'The Raggle Taggle Black Jack Gypsy Davey Came Whistling Over The Hill With Six of His Mates' - IF any one wants this posted , Just ASK.


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST,DeadMan
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 08:05 PM

Hi!
I have the song on my computer, so if you know of a possible way to copy it you're welcome to do so.

DeadMan


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: IanC
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 04:39 AM

Well, actually, some of the earlier English versions have similar realism ... "The gold ring on her finger's gone, and the gold plate on her bosom" for example.

:-)


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 01:21 AM

Hmm. Sounds like a 20th century addition to me! (Good though.)

~ Becky


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: robinia
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 01:32 AM

I like the "realistic" note on which an Appalachian version of the song (as sung by Jean Ritchie) ends: "Oh soon this lady changed her mind/ her clothes grew old and faded/ Her hose and shoes came off her feet/ and left them bare and naked.
Just what befell this lady now/ I think it worth relating/ Her gypsy found another lass/ and left her heart a-breaking."


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: open mike
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 02:34 AM

we used to sing this in girl scouts..
probably what prompted me to run away
from suburbia and live in a tipi on a
commune! i have to check out the thread
on The Beatniks and the Hippies...
I represent that!!


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 01:37 AM

Thanks for pointing me to the right thread, Malcolm.

~ Becky


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 07:52 PM

Sharp's book was actually published in America, though a similar edition appeared (under a different title) a little later in the UK. For at least some of the answers to the ah-de-doo question, see the second part of the discussion Gypsy Rover a real folk song.


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 07:33 PM

There are two popular written sources likely responsible for some of the dispersion of the Raggle-Taggle version among 20th century revival singers, neither of which are mentioned in this discussion: Cecil Sharp's One Hundred English Folk Songs, a likely source for many folkies on the east side of the pond, and on the west, virtually the same version is in the Fireside Book of American Folk Songs.

I'd like to know where the "ah-dee-doo" chorus comes from. I remember it from the Kingston Trio, but who was singing it before that, anyone in the American stringband tradition? (This is where I want a copy of Bronson...)

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 01:16 PM

My favourite version is the House Band's, on their
CD "October Song" (Green Linnet, GLCD 1190).
Their song title is "Seven Yellow Gypsies",
but it's the same.

A wicked haunting accompaniment, which should
give an idea why many people thought the
fiddle the Devil's instrument. . .

Other CD tracks good too, including the title
song.

Cheers,

                            -- Arne Langsetmo


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: belfast
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 08:24 AM

Talk about the meaning and origins of the song prompts me to add this.Here's a bit from a play "Paddy on the Road" about Christy Moore. Christy has been talking about Ewan MacColl. His companion PJ agrees but…


"PJ: MacColl was a great man certainly.   But some of his acolytes were an awful pain in the arse. I was standing at the bar one night and I'm listening to Christy singing The Raggle Taggle Gypsies and this fella turns to me and says "That's a terribly interesting ballad. There are versions of it all over Europe. But, as Ewan says, you can never really appreciate such a ballad unless you subject it to a Marxist analysis. This song, you see, is a paradigm of the class struggle. The lady in the ballad has abandoned the ruling class and, in the most profound way possible, has displayed her solidarity with one of the oppressed sectors of society. It foretells, in a sense, the Socialist Revolution and the inevitable victory of the proletariat."   And he drones on like this for about twenty minutes. I take a slug of me pint and says, "Is that a fact now? And here's me thinking it was about some hussy runnin' off with a pack of gippoes"

Oh, I know. I know!   We don't use language like that any more. We don't talk about gippoes and tinkers; we talk about travellers. But there's some people who will be very bloody careful to use the word "travellers" and still treat the people behind the word like shite."


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: Nerd
Date: 11 Oct 02 - 01:09 PM

Funny this thread is back up. I'm teaching a class on Folklore and just this week I used Planxty, the Waterboys, and a Danish band called Moving Cloud (Irish music from Denmark!) all performing essentially the Prosperous/Christy Moore/John Reilly version of "Raggle-Taggle Gypsies" to show the ways a single version or arrangement of a traditional song can "make the rounds" becoming a standard of the folk revival scene. I also used Thin Lizzy and Metallica (!) doing "Whiskey in the Jar."


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: MikeOQuinn
Date: 11 Oct 02 - 05:31 AM

I have a recording of this song on Carlos Núñez's album "Os Amores Libres." I had heard of Núñez prior to this album as a vocalist, but I had never known that he played the pipes as well, which he does with remarkable skill. (The version of "The Raggle-Taggle Gipsy" on this album, for example, is followed by an absolutely smoking rendition of "Itchy Fingers." The two tunes work great together!)

I also like the Gaita (galician bagpipes) that Núñez plays off and on throughout this album. It's different, but very worthwhile.

-J


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: old moose
Date: 11 Oct 02 - 12:34 AM

Back in fifty seven (middle of last century)alongside my research on "Edward, My Son Edward" and "Lord Randall, MY Son" I did a search in the publications on "The Raggle Taggle Gypsies" and had about two hundred and fifty citations; Lord Randal and Edward had a great many more. Some of the citations dated to the fourteen hundreds. The conclusion reached by my professor and myself was to the effect that "The Gypsies" as we called it was an early retelling of the Orfeus myth in a form that could be sung and understood by the audiences of the times. No way of knowing, of course, how many permutations it had gone through, nor has it stopped changing as time goes. I quit working on it because of time considerations;
also it seemed a daunting project for a quarters terminal. It would certainly be worse now. Good for a master's thesis at least. I had no desire to go to graduate school then and now in my seventies--naah. Run for it somebody.


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST,Jim Clark..London..England
Date: 10 Oct 02 - 08:38 PM

I have videoed several musicians playing this superb song..you camn hear one in the folk sounds section of my acoustic musicians and poets sound archive MSN website

acoustic musicians and poets sound archive


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST,johnnie
Date: 09 Oct 02 - 11:29 PM

the waterboys - room to roam cd - best one there is


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST,Zorikh
Date: 15 Sep 02 - 03:39 PM

I've spent most of the day researching this song, it's origins, variants etc. I first heard the Dave Alvin version ("Blakjack David") and thought I might sing it at a SCA event because it sounded sort of petiod-ish and has a romantic theme. I like how his version makes it uncertain whether David and the lady will make love together on the "cold cold ground" or will join in a mutual suicide pact or a killed by her husband. This song is a facinating textbook example of how a universal theme can be turned into a song with local pesons of fact, fiction, history, and legend, and then changes as it is passed down from hand to hand, culture to culture.


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Subject: RE: The Raggle-Taggle Gypsy
From: GUEST,Nerd
Date: 10 Apr 02 - 02:08 PM

I think malcolm is right, and Planxty is the band our guest was thinking of. By mentioning Sweeney's Men AND the Bothy Band, he covered most of Planxty's members, anyway :-) Many other versions were based on this one, including the Irish Descendants' and the Waterboys'. The Planxty version was closely based on the Christy Moore one mentioned by Bo; it was at the recording sessions for Prosperous that Planxty was born. And I believe Malcolm has it right that Christy took it from John Reilly's repertoire, as he did several great ballads.

My favorite revival version of this song is "Gypsy Laddie" by the Tannahill Weavers, from their eponymous third LP. Great Stuff!


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