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BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem

Joe Offer 23 Jan 18 - 03:47 AM
Joe Offer 23 Jan 18 - 03:58 AM
banjoman 23 Jan 18 - 06:21 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 18 - 07:00 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 18 - 07:12 AM
nickp 23 Jan 18 - 08:09 AM
Greg F. 23 Jan 18 - 10:11 AM
Donuel 23 Jan 18 - 12:01 PM
beardedbruce 23 Jan 18 - 12:23 PM
beardedbruce 23 Jan 18 - 12:25 PM
Jim Carroll 23 Jan 18 - 12:32 PM
Greg F. 23 Jan 18 - 12:39 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 18 - 12:58 PM
beardedbruce 23 Jan 18 - 12:58 PM
Jim Carroll 23 Jan 18 - 01:09 PM
beardedbruce 23 Jan 18 - 01:27 PM
beardedbruce 23 Jan 18 - 01:29 PM
Jim Carroll 23 Jan 18 - 01:57 PM
bobad 23 Jan 18 - 02:04 PM
beardedbruce 23 Jan 18 - 02:12 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 18 - 02:27 PM
bobad 23 Jan 18 - 02:56 PM
Joe Offer 23 Jan 18 - 03:09 PM
beardedbruce 23 Jan 18 - 03:24 PM
Joe Offer 23 Jan 18 - 03:52 PM
bobad 23 Jan 18 - 05:03 PM
Greg F. 23 Jan 18 - 05:34 PM
Greg F. 23 Jan 18 - 05:36 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 18 - 05:45 PM
Jim Carroll 23 Jan 18 - 06:52 PM
Joe Offer 23 Jan 18 - 07:00 PM
bobad 23 Jan 18 - 07:13 PM
bobad 23 Jan 18 - 08:02 PM
Joe Offer 24 Jan 18 - 01:36 AM
Donuel 24 Jan 18 - 07:03 AM
Jim Carroll 24 Jan 18 - 07:43 AM
bobad 24 Jan 18 - 08:35 AM
Jim Carroll 24 Jan 18 - 08:40 AM
Greg F. 24 Jan 18 - 10:10 AM
Greg F. 24 Jan 18 - 10:28 AM
Jim Carroll 24 Jan 18 - 11:08 AM
bobad 24 Jan 18 - 11:10 AM
Greg F. 24 Jan 18 - 11:13 AM
bobad 24 Jan 18 - 11:28 AM
Jim Carroll 24 Jan 18 - 11:31 AM
bobad 24 Jan 18 - 11:40 AM
Jim Carroll 24 Jan 18 - 11:48 AM
Greg F. 24 Jan 18 - 12:47 PM
bobad 24 Jan 18 - 01:00 PM
beardedbruce 24 Jan 18 - 01:27 PM
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Subject: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 03:47 AM

I was in Israel in the early part of December, 2017. It was a Catholic tour, a group of 208 people. Most were Filipino Catholics from Los Angeles - some were part of a Filipino-American choir who had been invited to perform at the Christmas tree lighting at Manger Square in Bethlehem. The tree lighting was a wonderful chance for Palestine to to show off a bit, to show what a civilized and credible nation it has become.

Our tour company is owned by an Arab Israeli who lives in Los Angeles. We stayed in Arab-owned hotels in Bethlehem (Palestinian State), Nazareth (Israel, but a totally Arab city), and East Jerusalem. Our tour guide was an Armenian Christian citizen of Israel. He said that both Christians and Muslims feel like second-class citizens in Israel, and generally both Christians and Muslims have the same perspective.

I had been in Israel in 1999, and I loved it. Our tour guide was Jewish, wife of the #2 man in Customs in Israel. We stayed in Jewish-owned hotels and saw things mostly from a Jewish perspective (although we were a Catholic pilgrimage group). We were supposed to have our last day free in Jerusalem, but our guide offered us a tour of Jericho, the Dead Sea, and Qumran for $30, and I couldn't pass it up. But I had wanted to walk the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem, and I missed that chance. I signed up for three tours of Israel after that, but two were cancelled because of the poor economy and unrest in Israel, and the third was overbooked. I finally got my chance last month.

It was a very nice tour, but my main goal was to spend a day by myself, walking the walls of the Old City. The day that worked for me was Thursday, December 7, and it looked like it would work very well. But then, Trump annnounced on Wednesday that he was going to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and move the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. All hell broke loose, and the U.S. Department of State issued travelers' advisories. Our tour guide advised me that it was unwise for me to go to the Old City alone. But I decided that since I had been in Egypt in hotter times, I'd go anyway. So, I went. I got hopelessly lost, but I kinda didn't mind. I finally found the Old City, and spent the day there. I wasn't able to walk the walls around the whole Old City, but I did have time to walk the northern portion. I got to the Damascus Gate, and there was an orderly demonstration there. The demonstration was mostly young women chanting anti-Trump slogans, and there were a few young men being carried away by Israeli security. I wished I had been with those women chanting against Trump, but I don't know if they would have been able to understand. I'm glad I went on Thursday, because there were rubber bullets and tear gas at Damascus Gate on Friday. The Israeli soldiers were all young and seemed very intent on asserting their authority. That's a recipe for problems.

If you'd like to take a look here are my photographs:

So, anyhow, after I got home, I found a small article in my favorite Catholic newspaper, the National Catholic Reporter. The article said that Israel is building a high-speed rail system that will carry passengers from Tel Aviv to Israel in 20 minutes, and now they are planning to extend the line under the old city of Jerusalem to an underground station that will be named "Trump Station." I was aghast. The railroad line, slated to open in 2019, sounds like a good idea. But why would they tunnel through an area with four millennia of achaeological treasures to build a railroad stations? And fer crissake, why name it Trump Station?

I can't find the brief National Catholic Reporter article, but tthey did have a link to a longer Associate Press article that may have been the source of the article I read. Here's a good article on the topic in the New York Times, replete with a really weird photo of Trump in a yarmulke at the Western Wall.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 03:58 AM

Since we were on a tour with Arab ties, we spent a lot of time in Arab territory, both in the State of Israel and in the Palestinian Territory. Here and there as we drove through Palestine, we'd see a road off to the side marked with a huge flag of Israel. Each road led to a military checkpoint, and behind the checkpoint was a huge, luxurious, new condominium complex, surrounded by a very secure-looking wall. Our guide explained that these were Israeli settlements in Palestinian territory.
These settlements seemed to be intentionally provocative, to spit in the faces of the Palestinians who lived in the surrounding area. I've always thought that Israelis were peaceable, well-intentioned people - but these settlements gave a very different message. I suppose this is a controversial subject and may end up in disaster, but I wonder what people think, and I wonder what experiences other people have had of Israel. It certainly is a beautiful place.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: banjoman
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 06:21 AM

Great set of Photos Joe. I think that the Israelis have a lot to answer for in terms of incitement and provocation. In some measure, its understandable in light of their history. However, they claim to be a nation of peacemakers. I feel that the real problem is that there is confusion between the Nation State and the Jewish religion.
Thanks again for the photos and the narrative


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 07:00 AM

Good perspective, Joe. I've tried to be more careful in recent years how I put things. I've been to a number of European countries, including northern Cyprus, and found without fail that the denizens thereof in all of 'em are just like "us." Same aspirations, same need for a peaceful life, same foibles, same irritating little ways (parking cars all over the pavements, dumping rubbish undetected, trying to kill me on pedestrian crossings) but always friendly, helpful and welcoming in every way, proud of their culture and heritage and rarely out to rip me off (the UK is the worst place I know for that). We had friends who lived on the Dhekelia military base in Cyprus who took us all over the island on three separate visits, and we stayed in Kyrenia, in the unrecognised northern republic, full of lovely people. There were thousands of strutting Turkish soldiers and a huge, threatening Turkish military base in Kyrenia, but the most menacing military guys I saw were on the Greek side near the Green Line checkpoints. Some real gits there.

So I'm not over the moon about "the Israelis" having a lot to answer for. Living in a country where most people were kept pig-ignorant of the issues then goaded into voting in a referendum, and seeing what happened in the last US election, I have a feeling that most ordinary Israelis just want to get on with their lives and quite likely take little interest in the politics of the country on anything like a deep level. So I'd rather refer to the Israeli regime, who, in my view, have a hell of a lot to answer for, along with many another faction in the region. I'm pretty sure that is your sentiment too, banjoman. But best not to give the hawks around here any ammunition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 07:12 AM

Hugely enjoying the photos, Joe. The "no comment" one is a hoot - I have a few of those that I love to show the Catholics back home. Another place added to the bucket list...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: nickp
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 08:09 AM

Great photos, thank you for them and the background.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 10:11 AM

But why would they tunnel through an area with four millennia of achaeological treasures to build a railroad stations? And fer crissake, why name it Trump Station?

To stick a finger in the eye of the Palestinians particularly, the Arab world in general, the U.N., and the Isreli left.

That's what dangerous jackasses like Bibi do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 12:01 PM

The Indiana Jones aspect of this story is in the one trick pony thread with an accompanying non fiction speculation of the future of this saga. (ego-free)


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 12:23 PM

Too bad you only apply this to Jewish construction...


"The Temple Mount Sifting Project (formerly known as the Temple Mount Salvage Operation) is an Israeli archaeological project begun in 2005 dedicated to recovering archaeological artifacts from 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999 The project is under the academic auspices of Bar Ilan University and until 2017 was funded by the Ir David Foundation and Israel Exploration Society."


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 12:25 PM

https://www.upi.com/News_Photos/Features/Israeli-archaeologists-sift-through-debris-from-the-Temple-Mount/fp/10660/


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 12:32 PM

"why name it Trump Station?"
To pay the debt the regime owes to him of course
Doesn't seem to matter too much that the station will be named after a racist and antisemite thug of from the same school as those who sent six-million Jews to their deaths during the Holocaust
Perhaps there might be a change of heart when Nessie is INDICTED FOR FRAUD as is quite likely
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 12:39 PM

Same old "But Mommie, He Hit Me First" nonsense, eh Bruce?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 12:58 PM

You were right, Joe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 12:58 PM

Attacking me rather than discuss why you hold Jews to a different standard than anyone else, eh GregtrF?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 01:09 PM

"Attacking me rather than discuss why you hold Jews to a different standard than anyone else, eh GregtrF?"
I thought the definition said that it was antisemitic to implicate the Jewish people in the cations of the actions of Israeli !!
Jim Caarroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 01:27 PM

Sorry, Jimmy boy, the Arabs in Jerusalem may well be Israeli citizens, yet THEY supported the Mosque construction, at the cost of Jewish archeological objects.

" 400 truckloads of topsoil removed from the Temple Mount by the Waqf during the construction of the underground el-Marwani Mosque from 1996 to 1999


I was pointing out to the antisemitic GregtrF that NOT ONLY Israeli Jews were risking damaging archeological sites, but ONLY the JEWISH construction is criticized here.

That is by definition AntiSemitic.



ALL construction on or near the Temple Mount should be rigidly controlled and monitored- NOT JUST Israeli.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 01:29 PM

I see that the normal Mudcat - "Attack the poster rather than defend your statements" is in full effect by the Liberal Gestapo.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 01:57 PM

"Attack the poster rather than defend your statements"
You mean like
Sorry, Jimmy boy, "
"is in full effect by the Liberal Gestapo."
Another of your "brightestr and best" eh Brucie
Mind you, you will have the chance to become an expert on the Gestapo if Nessie has his wicked way with Herr Trump
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: bobad
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 02:04 PM

Contrast Israel's treatment of archaeologic sites with that of Jordan's wanton destruction of sites sacred to Jews during their illegal occupation of east Jerusalem:

58 synagogues were desecrated or demolished in the Old City, resulting in the de-Judaization of Jerusalem.[5][6][7] The Western Wall was transformed into an exclusively Muslim holy site associated with al-Buraq.[8] 38,000 Jewish graves in the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives were systematically destroyed, and Jews were not allowed to be buried there.[5][6] This was all in violation of the Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement Article VIII - 2

Wikipedia


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 02:12 PM

But bobdad, it's not like Jimmy boyo thinks that Jews are really human, you know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 02:27 PM

Greg, Jim, don't post to this again. I fully respected the sentiment of the opening posts and enjoyed the photos. I wish this had stopped there. Only asking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: bobad
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 02:56 PM

These settlements seemed to be intentionally provocative, to spit in the faces of the Palestinians who lived in the surrounding area.

Do you not believe that Jews, who have lived in the area for millennia before having been ethnically cleansed by the Jordanians, have the right to build and live there again after having reclaimed their ancestral lands?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 03:09 PM

That's partially right, Bobad. The Jews have made Israel into a wonderful place. And the Arab Israelis have also done the same - Arab areas in Israel like Nazareth are remarkable and beautiful. And in the beautiful city of Haifa, Arabs and Jews and Bahai and others have lived together in relative peace and have built an amazing city from the slopes of Mount Carmel to the Mediterranean.

But there is a strong right-wing faction in the Israeli government, and it has played hardball in politics for decades. And for them, it is most important that they assert and retain their power. To make it worse, there are strong factions in Palestine and all over the Middle East that are just as intent on asserting and defending their power. And so, we have the mess we have.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 03:24 PM

A contributing factor almost always overlooked is that WHEN the Arabs had control of Jewish Holy sites, they destroyed them, or prevented Jews having access to them. NO Israeli government has ever done that to Muslim Holy sites, but the Jews still remember, and will NOT allow it again.


NEVER AGAIN.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 03:52 PM

I meant to say more in response to Bobad. As far as I know, "the Jordanians" didn't exists at any of the many times that the Jews suffered "ethnic cleansing"; but they did more-or-less level the Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem when they occupied the Old City 1948-67 - and that was a shame and a travesty.

But the Arab peoples have lived in Israel as long as the Jews have. The Arabs were there a couple of millennia before they became Muslim. So you can't say the Muslims have no right there because they were latecomers and weren't there until the 7th century. They were there long before that - they just had different religions.

I think it's clear that both Arabs and Jews have a right to live in Israel - and in many ways, they live together and make things work and have built a beautiful nation. But there are those in power on both sides who profit from the conflict, and the conflict serves to preserve their power.

These people in power are not necessarily bad people, and it's useless to moralize against them even if they are "bad" in our eyes. They just see things differently. They have no concept of the impact of suffering and poverty and powerlessness. The things that little people suffer, are beyond their comprehension. To them, it's all about what's politically expedient. And polarizing the masses and fomenting conflict is politically expedient, so they continue to do it and continue to live in comfortable oblivion to the suffering of so many.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: bobad
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 05:03 PM

But the Arab peoples have lived in Israel as long as the Jews have. The Arabs were there a couple of millennia before they became Muslim. So you can't say the Muslims have no right there because they were latecomers and weren't there until the 7th century. They were there long before that - they just had different religions.

You might find this of interest. It was written by a Canadian M?tis, Ryan Bellerose, who is, as his father before him was, an activist for the rights of indigenous peoples.

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/224254/bellerose-aboriginal-people


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 05:34 PM

OK, Steve- you're absolutely right. Same clown(s) posting the same nonsensical bullshit, per omnia saecula saeculorum.

I'll try to swear 'em all off - but I can't promise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 05:36 PM

The Jews have made Israel into a wonderful place.

Unless you're a Palestinian in the occupied territories, Joe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 05:45 PM

Amen, Greg. :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 06:52 PM

"The Jews have made Israel into a wonderful place."
Unfortunately, right wing administrations have attempted to do so by excluding non-Jews
It is sad to remember that the Jews were exposed to the same process by the Nazis - all my Jewish friends said "never again, not to anybody", but they are now described as Jewish self-haters.
You can see some of that here
"But bobdad, it's not like Jimmy boyo thinks that Jews are really human, you know."
Critiscise the extremist right-wing administration in Israel and you become a Jew hater
Working definition of Antisemitism
"Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.
However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic."

Anybody who construes criticism of Israel is in breach of this definition
Bruce and Bobad refuse to respond to this fact - neither have ever produced a single shred of evidence that any off those they have consistently described as "Antisemitic" have ever attacked the Jewish people - this makes them serial antisemites - by definition
Bobad and Bruse have refused to comment on this trait in their character - it will be interesting to see if Christian Joe does.

I'm comfortable with where I stand regardng the Jewish people
I was brought up to despise Antisemitism - when my father saw what was happening in pre-war he volunteered to fight in Spain - he was wounded and imprisoned alongside Jews - three of his former International Brigade comrades turned up at his funeral
OI worked with left wing Jews, described by Bruce as "the Liberal Gestapo", in the Peace Movement, and the Anti-Apartheid campaigns - I nearly married the daughter of a Holocaust survivor.
This pair are happy to support ISRAEL'S ANTISEMITISM
Now they are happy to see an underground station named after THIS ANTISEMITE
I'm happy with my position and am not surprised they are happy with theirs
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 07:00 PM

Posted By: Greg F.
23-Jan-18 - 05:36 PM
Thread Name: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem

The Jews have made Israel into a wonderful place.

Unless you're a Palestinian in the occupied territories, Joe.


I'd disagree. Many parts of the occupied territories are showing a lot of progress. I think the Palestinian State is doing a good job.
Bethlehem is a wonderful town. Jericho is far better than it was when I visited there in 1999. Yes, there are places of poverty and misery, but things are improving. I believe in the Palestinian State.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: bobad
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 07:13 PM

Unless you're a Palestinian in the occupied territories

So let's unpack that Greg.

The terminology of "occupation" is derived from the actual lack of legal status to the territories over the "Green Cease-fire Line" agreed upon in the 1949 Rhodes Armistice Agreements. No borders have been established or recognized by the parties. Armistice lines do not establish borders, and the 1949 Armistice Agreements in particular specifically stated (at Arab insistence) that they were not creating permanent or de jure borders.

Territories are only "occupied" if they are captured in war from an established and recognized sovereign, but no state had a legitimate or recognized sovereignty over the West Bank, Gaza Strip or East Jerusalem prior to the Six-Day War.

Legally the Jews were recognized as "cestui sue trust" of the political rights to them as embodied in the Treaty of S?vres (Section VII, Art 94-97) with regard to the Palestine mandate which was finally confirmed by the Council of the League of Nations on 24 July 1922.

As for your use of "Palestinian" a Palestinian is simply an inhabitant of Palestine. There are Jewish, Christian, Muslim and non-believers who are Palestinian. Palestinian is simply a national designation like Canadian or American. There are no racial, ethnic or religious criteria for being a Palestinian. Only by right of birth, naturalization and descent does one become a Palestinian, as in most other countries. BTW, my wife's family were real Palestinians, not the fake Palestinians of Yasser Arafat's creation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: bobad
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 08:02 PM

The thing is that people like Shaw and Greg avoid public debate because they know that they are in fact on the wrong side. So I too say goodnight to you Greg.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 01:36 AM

I haven't seen the refugee camps, but I have heard that they are bleak, hopeless places. I was favorably impressed by Jericho and Bethany and Bethlehem on the West Bank, and by the territory along the Jordan Valley. Our tour guide told me that Ramallah is also one of the nicest cities in Palestine. Along the road from Jerusalem to Jericho, there were some housing areas that looked like barrios in Mexicali - dirt floors and rooftops of corrugated metal. I couldn't tell if these were permanent homes, or if they were temporary quarters for sheepherders.
But I get the feeling that the Palestinians are taking real pride in themselves as a nation. I think that's a great sign of hope.
We went to the Christmas tree lighting in Manger Square in Bethlehem. It was a chance for Palestine to show off their stuff, and they did a good job of it with an animated LED Christmas tree and high-tech lighting, and great fireworks. The Prime Minister of Palestine spoke, and the mayor of Bethlehem. There was an element of small-town corniness to it, but I liked it.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 07:03 AM

In a true story about false motives, ego, international politics, religion and conspiracy theories comes a saga akin to Indiana Jones and the Dome of the Rock. Enter Donald Trump's ego fed with plastering his name on a train station at the Western Wall that will carve tunnels for 2 miles under the ancient Hebrew Temple. This is where the current Dome of the Rock mosque sits.
The director of transportation AND intelligence officer for Israel Mr. Katz sold Donald Trump the project idea easily by presenting it to him as an honorary gift.

Donald knows not what may be excavated in chambers under the Temple be it the arc of the covenant ;^| or other mysteries, nor would he care.
However Muslims do care about the real estate above the tunnel that is currently theirs.

Cue the soundtrack to Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

This plot thickening Trump tunnel story will erupt again and when if does it will be explosive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 07:43 AM

Not one of you people have even bothered to refer to the Implications of Israel'sw admiration of the world's most dangerous and unstable leader - your attempts at appeasement to ethic cleansing are somewhat pathetic Joe
Isreal ceased to speak for the Jewish people as a whole when, after the massacre of 3'500 unarmed refugees at Sabra-Shatila, it elected the man its own enquiry deemed responsible Prime Minister
https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/01/11/israel-ariel-sharons-troubling-legacy
This article in this morning's Times, sums up for me what has happened to Modern Israel; the one ray of hope is the humanity displayed by Jewish people in the face of the inhumanity of the Regime
Jim Carroll

HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS HELP SAVE MIGRANTS FROM REMOVAL
Israel
Anshel Pfeffer Jerusalem
A plan to deport 38,000 migrants from Israel to Africa was on the verge of col?lapse last night amid growing domestic opposition and a failure to agree terms with Rwanda.
Holocaust survivors have criticised the plan and Israeli pilots have refused to fly the migrants out of the country. Yesterday Yehuda Bauer, a survivor and renowned Holocaust historian, compared the migrants' plight to that of Jews who escaped to Israel after the Second World War.
The deal with Rwanda was developed after Binyamin Netanyahu, the prime minister, ordered the National Security Council to speed up the deportation of migrants, mostly from Eritrea and Sudan, who had entered the country illegally from Egypt.
The migrants were to be given the option of receiving $3,500 in cash and being resettled in Rwanda, or being jailed indefinitely. Most of those targeted in the scheme said they had escaped warfare and repression but Israel's government defines almost all of them as economic migrants.
Of the 4,000 migrants whose requests for political asylum had been processed, only ten had been approved, refugee organisations said.
Mr Netanyahu responded to critics, saying that "the infiltrators can co-operate and leave in a respectable and humane way or we will use other methods. What we are doing is totally legal and necessary.
Israel's prison service has informed
the government that it does not have space to incarcerate migrants who refuse to be deported. Legal opinions obtained by the government have raised question marks over whether deportation to a third country is lawful.
Rwanda, the 'third country' to which the refugees were to be deported, seems to have gone cold on the deal.
"The government of Rwanda wishes to inform that it has never signed any secret deal with Israel regarding the re?location of African migrants," the government's Twitter account announced.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: bobad
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 08:35 AM

under the ancient Hebrew Temple. This is where the current Dome of the Rock mosque sits.


The grand mufti of Jerusalem, Sheikh Muhammad Ahmad Hussein the Muslim cleric in charge of the Al-Aqsa Mosque, says that there has never been a Jewish temple atop the Temple Mount, and that the site has been home to a mosque “since the creation of the world.”

Arafat and Abbas have also tried to deny the historical Jewish connection to Jerusalem by claiming that no evidence has been found to prove any historical connection.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 08:40 AM

Proof of ethnic cleansing
PALESTINIAN REFUGEES
Confirmation, if needed
"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not."
Golda Meir
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 10:10 AM

I'd disagree.

Well, Joe, I'd pick up the discussion but my posts would likely just magically disappear (again) so what's the point?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 10:28 AM

Former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was so intent on assassinating Palestinian Liberation Organization chairman Yasser Arafat in the 1980s that he considered downing commercial passenger planes

“Since World War II, Israel has used assassination and targeted-killing more than any other country in the West, in many cases endangering the lives of civilians,” Bergman wrote.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/magazine/how-arafat-eluded-israels-assassination-machine.html?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 11:08 AM

The biggest eye-opener I ever got was the documentary, 'THE GATEKEEPERS ' where six former directors of the Israeli Security Forces described on camera what their job was
At least two of the interviews fall well into the many-times readjusted definition of the term 'Antisemitism'
Right from the horses mouth from six Jews devoted to the Jewish people rather than the politicians
Well worth a viewing if the Israeli powers-that-be (with the aid of their new ally, Trump) ever allow it to be shown again
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: bobad
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 11:10 AM

Well good thing he only considered it eh Greg, unlike the thug Arafat who was responsible for killing thousands.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 11:13 AM

"Since World War II, Israel has used assassination and targeted-killing more than any other country in the West"


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: bobad
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 11:28 AM

And those targeted were responsible for the deaths of thousands of Jews.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 11:31 AM

"And those targeted were responsible for the deaths of thousands of Jews."
The have targeted anybody who gets in their way - go count the non-combatant deaths
Hitler used exactly the same excuse when Lidice was wiped out
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: bobad
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 11:40 AM

Damn those Jews for not letting themselves be peacefully killed, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 11:48 AM

2Damn those Jews for not letting themselves be peacefully killed, eh?"
Damn the bastards who excuse the Israeli Regime for behaving in exactly the same way and then allow them to blame the Jewish people for it
A JEWISH VIEW
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 12:47 PM

And those targeted were responsible for the deaths of thousands of Jews.

But Mommie- Billy hit me first! You & BrucedBeard should perform as a duet, Boo.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: bobad
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 01:00 PM

Here you go Greg:

List of Jews killed by terrorists in Israel (1993 to present)

List of Jews killed by terrorists worldwide (1953 to 2003)

Like I said damn those Jews for not letting themselves be peacefully killed, eh Greg.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Station in Old Jerusalem
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 01:27 PM

So, GregtrF, you are ok with people killing Jews, but object to THEM being killed after they have killed Jews???


And YOU are the Liberal Poster boy here that can tell us all what to think...


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