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BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)

Raggytash 10 Jan 18 - 06:44 AM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jan 18 - 07:10 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Jan 18 - 09:42 AM
Raggytash 10 Jan 18 - 10:05 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 Jan 18 - 10:08 AM
Nigel Parsons 10 Jan 18 - 10:56 AM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jan 18 - 11:19 AM
Mr Red 10 Jan 18 - 11:31 AM
Senoufou 10 Jan 18 - 12:49 PM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jan 18 - 01:07 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Jan 18 - 01:58 PM
MikeL2 10 Jan 18 - 03:08 PM
The Sandman 10 Jan 18 - 03:12 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Jan 18 - 03:33 PM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jan 18 - 03:40 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Jan 18 - 03:42 PM
Raggytash 10 Jan 18 - 04:02 PM
Dave the Gnome 10 Jan 18 - 04:03 PM
Joe Offer 10 Jan 18 - 11:57 PM
Nigel Parsons 11 Jan 18 - 03:22 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jan 18 - 04:45 AM
Mr Red 11 Jan 18 - 04:47 AM
Nigel Parsons 11 Jan 18 - 05:02 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jan 18 - 05:02 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jan 18 - 05:16 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Jan 18 - 06:09 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Jan 18 - 06:13 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jan 18 - 06:22 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Jan 18 - 06:35 AM
Mr Red 11 Jan 18 - 07:08 AM
Nigel Parsons 11 Jan 18 - 07:27 AM
JMB 11 Jan 18 - 08:31 AM
JMB 11 Jan 18 - 08:33 AM
JMB 11 Jan 18 - 08:36 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Jan 18 - 09:50 AM
Raggytash 11 Jan 18 - 10:04 AM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jan 18 - 10:20 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Jan 18 - 10:21 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jan 18 - 10:39 AM
Allan Conn 11 Jan 18 - 12:05 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jan 18 - 12:41 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Jan 18 - 12:50 PM
MikeL2 11 Jan 18 - 02:48 PM
MikeL2 11 Jan 18 - 03:03 PM
Raggytash 11 Jan 18 - 04:45 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jan 18 - 05:04 PM
Nigel Parsons 12 Jan 18 - 03:31 AM
Dave the Gnome 12 Jan 18 - 03:34 AM
Nigel Parsons 12 Jan 18 - 03:39 AM
Dave the Gnome 12 Jan 18 - 04:04 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Jan 18 - 05:09 AM
Dave the Gnome 12 Jan 18 - 12:47 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jan 18 - 12:49 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Jan 18 - 01:10 PM
Dave the Gnome 12 Jan 18 - 02:29 PM
MikeL2 12 Jan 18 - 02:42 PM
MikeL2 12 Jan 18 - 02:51 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Jan 18 - 06:01 PM
Raggytash 13 Jan 18 - 05:56 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jan 18 - 06:08 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jan 18 - 06:13 AM
Raggytash 13 Jan 18 - 06:28 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jan 18 - 08:17 AM
Raggytash 13 Jan 18 - 04:21 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Jan 18 - 05:36 PM
Raggytash 14 Jan 18 - 05:49 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Jan 18 - 05:55 AM
Raggytash 14 Jan 18 - 06:01 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Jan 18 - 06:54 AM
Raggytash 14 Jan 18 - 07:22 AM
Vic Smith 14 Jan 18 - 07:35 AM
Raggytash 14 Jan 18 - 07:41 AM
Raggytash 14 Jan 18 - 07:44 AM
Raggytash 14 Jan 18 - 11:01 AM
punkfolkrocker 14 Jan 18 - 11:09 AM
Raggytash 14 Jan 18 - 01:02 PM
Raggytash 14 Jan 18 - 01:10 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Jan 18 - 01:23 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Jan 18 - 01:27 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Jan 18 - 06:04 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Jan 18 - 06:05 PM
MikeL2 15 Jan 18 - 09:36 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Jan 18 - 12:50 PM
Raggytash 15 Jan 18 - 01:14 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jan 18 - 01:19 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jan 18 - 04:31 PM
MikeL2 15 Jan 18 - 05:07 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jan 18 - 05:54 PM
MikeL2 16 Jan 18 - 06:24 AM
Raggytash 16 Jan 18 - 06:32 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Jan 18 - 06:50 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Jan 18 - 06:52 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Jan 18 - 06:54 AM
Nigel Parsons 16 Jan 18 - 10:33 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Jan 18 - 11:17 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 Jan 18 - 01:26 PM
Raggytash 16 Jan 18 - 02:23 PM
MikeL2 16 Jan 18 - 02:38 PM
MikeL2 16 Jan 18 - 02:47 PM
MikeL2 16 Jan 18 - 02:54 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Jan 18 - 04:55 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Jan 18 - 05:55 PM
Nigel Parsons 18 Jan 18 - 03:51 AM
Senoufou 18 Jan 18 - 04:28 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Jan 18 - 05:50 AM
Senoufou 18 Jan 18 - 01:56 PM
MikeL2 18 Jan 18 - 02:42 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Jan 18 - 06:06 PM
Steve Shaw 22 Jan 18 - 12:53 PM
Raggytash 22 Jan 18 - 01:29 PM
The Sandman 22 Jan 18 - 03:35 PM
The Sandman 22 Jan 18 - 04:21 PM
Raggytash 22 Jan 18 - 04:55 PM
Steve Shaw 22 Jan 18 - 05:04 PM
The Sandman 23 Jan 18 - 04:44 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 18 - 05:15 AM
MikeL2 23 Jan 18 - 06:27 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 18 - 07:33 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 18 - 07:36 AM
MikeL2 23 Jan 18 - 02:41 PM
The Sandman 24 Jan 18 - 01:09 PM
MikeL2 25 Jan 18 - 02:46 PM
MikeL2 28 Jan 18 - 01:14 PM
Raggytash 28 Jan 18 - 04:23 PM
MikeL2 30 Jan 18 - 02:31 PM
Steve Shaw 30 Jan 18 - 05:54 PM
MikeL2 01 Feb 18 - 09:09 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 18 - 09:13 AM
MikeL2 01 Feb 18 - 10:14 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 18 - 03:36 PM
MikeL2 02 Feb 18 - 09:21 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Feb 18 - 07:27 PM
MikeL2 04 Feb 18 - 10:01 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Feb 18 - 02:12 PM
MikeL2 05 Feb 18 - 09:17 AM
Steve Shaw 05 Feb 18 - 10:31 AM
MikeL2 05 Feb 18 - 02:51 PM
Steve Shaw 05 Feb 18 - 06:22 PM
Steve Shaw 05 Feb 18 - 06:26 PM
MikeL2 06 Feb 18 - 02:38 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Feb 18 - 07:11 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Feb 18 - 06:09 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Feb 18 - 10:10 AM
MikeL2 10 Feb 18 - 10:10 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Feb 18 - 08:39 PM
olddude 11 Feb 18 - 11:16 PM
olddude 11 Feb 18 - 11:21 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Feb 18 - 10:03 AM
MikeL2 12 Feb 18 - 02:29 PM
MikeL2 12 Feb 18 - 02:50 PM
olddude 12 Feb 18 - 03:53 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Feb 18 - 05:48 PM
MikeL2 13 Feb 18 - 02:26 PM
Raggytash 13 Feb 18 - 03:52 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Feb 18 - 04:53 PM
MikeL2 14 Feb 18 - 06:23 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Feb 18 - 01:35 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Feb 18 - 04:53 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Feb 18 - 09:11 PM
olddude 14 Feb 18 - 10:32 PM
olddude 14 Feb 18 - 10:44 PM
MikeL2 15 Feb 18 - 11:08 AM
olddude 15 Feb 18 - 03:25 PM
Raggytash 15 Feb 18 - 04:24 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 18 - 08:07 AM
olddude 16 Feb 18 - 09:39 AM
Raggytash 16 Feb 18 - 09:46 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Feb 18 - 04:47 PM
Raggytash 18 Feb 18 - 05:10 AM
MikeL2 18 Feb 18 - 06:30 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Feb 18 - 07:42 AM
Raggytash 18 Feb 18 - 07:56 AM
MikeL2 18 Feb 18 - 09:41 AM
MikeL2 18 Feb 18 - 09:52 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Feb 18 - 10:34 AM
Senoufou 18 Feb 18 - 11:53 AM
olddude 18 Feb 18 - 11:57 PM
Raggytash 19 Feb 18 - 04:49 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Feb 18 - 07:07 PM
MikeL2 21 Feb 18 - 06:46 AM
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Subject: BS: Football
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 06:44 AM

I can't say I'm really bothered all that much about football, I will watch the highlights and occasionally put on a whole match and read a book while it is on raising my head only when the commentary indicates something "exciting" is happening (it rarely is).

Contrast this to Hurling or Gaelic Football. In these two sports the action is fast, flowing, fluent, furious and fascinating. The players are all amateurs, they play merely for the glory and a successful team will be thought of as heroes long after they retire.

All in all much better games to watch.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 07:10 AM

Televised Subbuteo...????


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Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 09:42 AM

Sorry for mucking your thread up, Raggytash. It's just that Mr Red got me gander up with his sideswipes at footie fans.

Tell you what. I'll copy and paste my post here right now and perhaps some kind mod would delete the post from your thread...?

Football non-fans constantly attacking football for being tribal is, ironically, tribal. So you don't like football. Well a lot of people do. A couple of years ago I tried, months in advance, to get a ticket for a relatively humdrum, non-crucial home match at Anfield (Liverpool vs Villa). No chance.

There a lot wrong with football. Players' pay at the top of the game is scandalous. Most league footballers don't get tens of thousands a week, however. We tend to dwell on the most egregious examples, which are actually a small minority. Ticket prices are outlandish in consequence (though you'd pay approximately as much for a decent seat at the opera or for a symphony concert). There's far too much corporate involvement. Some top clubs are bankrolled by billionaires who can buy or sell clubs at will and that's not really fair. Transfer fees at the top are ludicrous, and they are boosted further by parasitic agents taking huge slices of dosh. Television rights are bought for billions a year. We all pay for that eventually via advertising, even though you have to pay to see the matches on the telly. Which I do.

But wassup? It's a perfect example of capitalism in action. So is Tesco, Asda and Morrisons, but I still use them. Another thing that will, I know, never convince the footie-haters: at its best, which is often, it's a beautiful, flowing game that requires consummate skill, tactics and fitness. It isn't popular for nothing. And its popularity, whether you like it or not, crosses class boundaries. It's a great diversion for millions of people who haven't got much colour in their lives. And what's so wrong with diversions? And, let's face it, Liverpool FC are simply the greatest in waiting...


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Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 10:05 AM

Quite honestly Steve the diversion was much needed relief from the lack of comprehension in some quarters.

Having said that I don't really comprehend the tribal nature of football. I've witnessed it often enough but I can't get so emotionally involved over 22 men kicking an inflated pigs bladder around a pitch watched by 50,000 referees.

I'm pickling Gherkins today, can't beat a pickled Gherkin.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 10:08 AM

Never got too much into footie myself but I used to enjoy watching Speedway at Belle Vue in the late 60s. I can sort of understand the 'tribalism' (probably should use a better word) as it happens, to a greater or lesser extent, in most sports.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 10:56 AM

'tribalism' is probably a very appropriate term due to the need (often) to segregate opposing groups of supporters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 11:19 AM

In the west country region where I grew up, there was no real football teams to get excited about..

When I was 7, I was obviously caught up in the world cup winning hysteria.. but that didn't last too long.

Then I was introduced to Rugby at grammar school.
We weren't allowed to play football.

It seems to me that the brutal blood and mud fouling and punch ups footie of the past,
has been so emasculated and sanitised,
no wonder the modern game is such an anodyne fashion entertainment so increasingly appealing to teenage girls...

We watch rugby and boxing in our house.

My mrs is Welsh and proudly tribal when it comes to rugby,
she gets a real bloodthirsty adrenolin buzz off watching the tackles and bad tempered exchanges.
And now that channel 5 is showing free to view boxing with occasional Welsh boxers,
She can be heard shouting & screaming at the telly from outside our bay window onto the road....


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Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 11:31 AM

It's just that Mr Red got me gander up with his sideswipes at footie fans

"More than a religion proved". Ya can't ask them to accept responsibility because of it. Not a sideswipe, a direct hit, deflected by the "not me" stratagem. It was the other tribe obviously!

And as for tribal - even a good hearted crowd are tribal. These days we don't see as much of the Milwall syndrome but it is not unknown to have an undercover French policeman in a gang of French supporters at the world cup in ie England. And if you saw Eurosport - the football ads are predominently about anti-racism. If you contrast that with a sport like MotoGP where they provide stands for Rossi yellow and Marquez orange but I ain't never heard of any antagonism because there are also Ducatista, Suziki supporters, KTM clan, Aprilia afficianados etc. More tribes, more dilute rivalry. A different kind of crowd who applaud the riders as they do their slow-down lap. F1 is in the same category (AFAIK). Tennis I would expect even more so. etc

Two teams invites more robust rivalry and it has been seen demonstrably so. Football must police itself it it wants to be respected by the majority (who don't give a toss about the over-priced game that we majority have to subsidise).

Large crowds are dangerous, tribal ones moreso. It needs regulation and review - constantly. The crowd dictate that. The rest of us demand it. The crowd think it is nanny state until ........... then they blame everyone else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 12:49 PM

I know nothing about football (and could care even less!) But I'm told Norwich City aren't doing too well at the moment. Neither are Man U.
Husband is a Premier League tart though, and has a top for every team, which he wears on a whim. And a Cote d'Ivoire one (Les Elephants)


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Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 01:07 PM

I've just remembered collecting metal coins stamped with footballers heads from the local Esso petrol station
back when I was in primary school...


As I didn't drive and refuel, I guess me and my mates must have been begging motorists to hand over their free coins to us....???


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Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 01:58 PM

Well I see that there's plenty of anti-footie sentiment here. Of course we all subsidise it. Advertising costs money and advertisers pass the costs to us. But that's just capitalism and I assume we all operate within the capitalist system, even if some of us wish we didn't have to be of it. I almost never watch ITV or Channel 4 or 5 but I still pay more for the stuff they advertise. You could advise me not to buy that stuff, but, as I don't see the ads, I dunno what stuff it is. This website is peppered with annoying ads for stuff vaguely linked to what I might have been googling. There's no such thing as a free lunch. But I'm not bothered. You pay the same taxes that support schools and universities even if you don't have kids. My council tax pays for police that I haven't seen anywhere near my house in thirty years and for taking my rubbish, which doesn't happen because I live too far from the main road. I pay for a nuclear deterrent that I despise and I'm about to pay for a new vanity railway costing tens of billions that I'll never be able to afford to use. But my only recourse may be to vote out the buggers who want to spend my money on these hare-brained schemes. The singling-out of footie - we pay for the advertising, the policing, the clearing-up, blah blah - makes me question the motives of the people who do the singling out. To them, footie is a Bad Thing/tribal/replete with rotten role models/overpaid/overhyped/22 silly men chasing a silly ball/bloody Wayne bloody Rooney...

How about instead that it's great entertainment for millions, it adds colour to a lot of lives that lack it, it requires supreme fitness, skill and tactics, it encourages youngsters to get outside in the fresh air, it's a way of forgetting the vicissitudes of life for a little while...above all, it keeps me and Mike off the streets and gets me and him arguing about Man U and Liverpool (naturally, he's always wrong about it all the time, just like my grandad was) instead of bloody brexit and bloody Thatcher and bloody popes. Things like that are all I talk about with some people here and it's pretty hard to imbue the conversations with much bonhomie. But Mike and I are at polar opposites of the political spectrum and guess what? Never a discouraging word to one another ever crosses our keyboards. And, Mr Red, it's true that big crowds are dangerous. The most dangerous big crowds are called armies. Very few people argue that armies are a Bad Thing, not even me. Everything comes at a cost. Consider your position!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 03:08 PM

Hi Steve

"Your 10 Jan 18 - 01:58 PM "

You are more articulate than I am and I agree with most of your comments which you put better than me.

I have played most sports at various levels. I love most sports and these days as I am in my Eighties I watch most of it on TV. My No 1 son is able to get football match tickets and he takes me occasionally, otherwise I just would'nt be able to get there.

My family going back to my Grandfather have all been Manchester United Supporters.

My father though played Rugby League as a Semi pro for Broughton Rangers Belle Vue Rangers and Swinton.

I played football at school and represented my County. But my "ole fella" wanted me to play "rugger" and so I played both Rugby Union and League. But Union was my best love and I played for many years several clubs including Sale.

In summer I played cricket both in The Yorkshire and Cheshire Leagues.

When my rugby days were over Surprisingly I watched Football not rugby so much as I found it more exciting to watch.

I agree with Steve and his views on what is wrong with football and there is a lot.

I have played a little shinty when I was in Scotland and some Lacrosse back in England. These are crazy !!! I suffered more injuries and bruises than ever I did at football or rugby

I understand people who don't like football, that is their perrogative.

I can even understand people who support Liverpool. !!!!!!!!

At it's best football is thrilling, exciting and to me even beautiful.

Hope I haven't bored you all.

Regards

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 03:12 PM

Hurling is indeed a fascinating game


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 03:33 PM

Ahah, I see someone has expanded the title. You yanks have my sympathies. I've tried to watch American football a couple of times. This is what I've gleaned so far:

A lot of extremely-padded men stand around for several minutes.

Some kind of signal obliges them to stand in two lines.

One man throws an oddly-shaped ball along the lines.

Everybody spends the next thirty seconds trying to beat everyone else up.

After a short period of dusting-down, the process is repeated.

In the meantime, a bunch of very beautiful girls with frilly skirts right up to their delectable bottoms jump up and down on the touchline in gleeful and noisy fashion. This is, to my unrefined eye, by far the most appealing part of the game.

Am I missing something?


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 03:40 PM

Don't mock... I'm being serious...

I forgot to mention that over the last year or so,
me and the wife have followed the 2 monthly Sumo Wresting tournements on NHK News HD channel [Sky 507]

Fought over 15 days, with a daily half hour English Language highlights show...


Fascinating, and quite exciting at times...

Next tournament starts from this Sunday Jan 14...


https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/tv/sumo/


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 03:42 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, Mike, but I think my Grandad, who worked all his life in Salford docks and knew every pub in Salford, a lifelong Irish Catholic (my mum was born in Silk Street and went to Our Lady Of Grace) supported Manchester United because they were always seen to be a "Catholic club" managed by Matt Busby, a Catholic right down to his boots. Mind you, in those days United were worth supporting, what with Denis Law, Bobby Charlton, Georgie Best, Harry Gregg and, before that, the Babes. I went to Italy on a school trip in 1968 and the locals around Naples were mad about Bobby Charlton!

But Burnley had Jimmy Mac, and Liverpool were on the up...


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 04:02 PM

To the Mod who changed the thread title.

In Europe, and the UK in particular we play FOOTBALL.

In the USA you have FORMATION MUGGING.

There is absolutely no comparison between the two codes I don't know how you have the audacity to call your travesty of the format a game, never mind football.

For a start in your version the ball is very rarely kicked for crying out loud !!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 04:03 PM

I lived in Swinton for 50 years, Mike, and then only moved as far as Irlams o'th' Heights but only every sent to see them play once. At th' Heights I was half an hours walk to the Willows but never went to see Salford at all! Now I live in Yorkshire and will probably never go to see Leeds or Bradford.

I did play league at school though so at least I know What is going on. Unlike Union where I have no idea:-(

I must make an effort one day:-)

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 11:57 PM

I thought long and hard about what I should put to clarify the title. I hope it isn't too unacceptable. I think I'd agree with the consensus about the comparative quality of the two games, but I'd prefer to watch neither one. I did enjoy playing soccer, though.

So, do you have cheerleaders over there?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 03:22 AM

From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jan 18 - 04:02 PM
To the Mod who changed the thread title.
In Europe, and the UK in particular we play FOOTBALL.


I think what you mean is that this discussion is about "Association Football" (often shortened to either 'soccer' or 'football')
'Football' can be either Rugby Football, or Association Football.

In the US they appear to play either soccer, or a version similar to rugby football.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 04:45 AM

I a pretty sure the vast majority of people in the UK understand that Football is the association kind while Rugby is referred to as Rugby which, if we are being pedantic about it, can be league or union. As this is standard usage across all the media in he UK it is a bit daft to refer to it as anything other than football here.

The US is a different case. The term football has become common usage for the game they play there and, as a relative newcomer, 'soccer' has had to take on an alternate name.

Joe - We don't have cheerleaders. There is no need for such distractions in the games played here :-) What we do have, to add a further much misused term, is Morris dance troupes which have nothing to do with Morris dance as in the folk tradition but are groups of, usually, young ladies performing a set march/dance routine which sometimes has elements of what I have seen as cheerleading. This is done as a competitive sport in it's own right.

Confused? You will be...

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 04:47 AM

Consider your position!

Not near a football stadium, especially on a Saturday. That's my position.

Football is a minority interest in the UK (and the world) or another (alt fact) way of putting it is the biggest minority - it isn't, fishing is.

The problems are

1) Politicians are shit scared of pointing to the dangers
2) until there is a disaster
3) politicians can't blame the fans in spite of a clear audit trail of their contribution to any disaster.
4) when there are deaths, all fans become victims, regardless of culpability

This could be true of other genres but not to the degree. Why is rugby, by and large, devoid of the problems? Is it crowd volume? Is it the nature of the game that sees more violence on the pitch? Is it the image of being a gentleman's game? Is it that there is less money involved? Seen as a "Northern" game? Less countries participating?

Time was, I was told by those who were there, that before WW2 children were taken to see football. And rowdy behaviour was policed by the crowds' collective admonishment to individuals. We may be returning to those days, but are we there yet? I still see evidence to the contrary. And have the days of the Glasgie wet leg** gone? I somehow doubt it.

Society has been moving towards the ME generation as each generation passes. Large crowds are dangerous. Moreso when populated by the ME generation. Or two nations are competing.

I should ask - what are the Americans doing that would appear to work in Baseball? I know Canadian Ice Hockey had an atrocious reputation at one time. What did the governing bodies do to address that?

**think splashes from someone urinating on the terraces instead of finding the toilet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 05:02 AM

At least according to Huffpost it seems the use of the word 'soccer' has only declined in UK usage since the 1980s.
I certainly remember a time when the games were either soccer or rugby. 'Football' tended to encompass several games, including bank holiday mini-riots where an inflated bladder of some description might be found.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 05:02 AM

it isn't, fishing is.

Not comparing like with like there Mr R. Fishing is the sport with the biggest participation base but nowhere near football (or many others) as a spectator sport.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 05:16 AM

the word 'soccer' has only declined in UK usage since the 1980s

Well, first thing, the 1980s was 30 years ago. How long does something need to used for it to be become common usage? Secondly, I suspect the term soccer was not a general term for football in the UK even before that. I grew up in 50's/60s suburban Manchester and everyone I knew used the term football or 'footie'. Maybe it was a regional thing as it is now a national thing? Not that anyone but the most nit-picking pedant could give a flying f*** about it anyway...

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 06:09 AM

You are holding to your position as ultimate curmudgeon numero uno, Mr Red. Most human activities that involve participation by numbers of people, either as actors or spectators, have downsides. Three thousand people die on our roads every year. Horse racing over fences can cause horrible injuries to animals and promote gambling addiction. Protest marches often descend into violence. Referendums give terrible results. Downsides and occasional inconveniences to non-participants are part of humanity itself. Live and let live. The fact that it isn't exactly a majority who enjoy footie is no argument at all (would you use that argument against classical concerts or folk gigs? Glastonbury? Woodstock?), neither is it that millions of grown men, more than who go to football, like to spend their spare time engaged in a so-called sport that involves spearing terrified inedible fish through their bottom lips with a viciously-barbed hook. To me, watching paint dry is far more entertaining than watching snooker on the telly, but so what? Religion attracts many pejoratives, but the fact that only a minority of people attend church on Sunday is hardly a legitimate one. You see only downsides. Where's your sense of balance?

Football is too flowing to be able to accommodate cheerleaders, Dave, though what wouldn't be to like about a bit of a show just before kickoff and at half-time! When I were a little lad and going to matches at t'Gigg (Bury FC), the brass band would march out on to the pitch as on as the half-time whistle went. My mum was the registrar for years at Bury Cemetery (the dead centre of the town), which was right next door to Gigg Lane. It was more than possible for players to boot the ball over the not-very-high stand roof in between. Footballs found on graves was an occasional talking-point!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 06:13 AM

Wha...? "As soon as"


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 06:22 AM

Linking back to another thread, Swinton Lions played at Gig Lane for a while when their ground was sold to property developers. Just out of interest.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 06:35 AM

Gigg Lane was always admired for the high quality of its pitch back in the days when most pitches were quagmires all winter. I went to a match in the early 60s at Old Trafford when there was scarcely a blade of grass on half of the pitch. Another dismal aspect of that match was that Man U beat Burnley 6-0.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 07:08 AM

that involve participation by numbers of people,

But are the politicians shit scared of criticising them?

Football holds a unique position on that score. In the UK at least.

I have worked with a Celtic Glaswegian. He was a magistrate too. But all was a joke when it came to the rivalry with the Old Firm. He was even there when the Ibrox disaster occurred, though not at the same end.

It was always an amazement how he held conflicting stances when you compared views re Footie shenanigans and unrelated high spirits. Committed Christian and throughly nice chap. But he did puzzle me.

I guess he justified it by explaining it as a few miscreants, not the body. But then that is why large crowds are dangerous. Especially religious ones like at football stadia. The thing to watch for is emerging complexity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 07:27 AM

But the size of the crowd in a sports stadium doesn't account for it.
Rugby International crowds can be of similar size, and just as biased in their opinions, but the same problems don't flare up.
Cardiff's Millennium Stadium was host to numerous 'Football' cup finals while Wembley was being redeveloped. There were no major disruptions. Admittedly the bars in the stadium were closed on those days, but there were lots of pubs on the way in (from the segregated fans parking at different points in the city).
The same crowd for a Rugby international will be sitting in the stadium with the supporter groups intermingled, and the bars open. - No Problems!

It must be down to the attitude of the sport, and its supporters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: JMB
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 08:31 AM

When I hear the term football, I first think of Association Football or Gaelic Football or Rugby Football. There is also Australian form of football I understand. I feel that Rugby is more appealing to me than American Football. The game that the Americans play is slow moving game. As soon as the ball hits the ground or if the player in possession gets tackled, the play is dead. In Rugby, dropping the ball or getting tackled will result in the play continuing. Also, in Rugby, you have to pass the ball to a team mate behind you. Forward passes are illegal which makes for a good challenge. I played a little Rugby when I was younger and worked at major local tournaments with tasks such as running touch. It's a fun game. I do enjoy the American game sometimes, though. If you're from Canada and a big American Football fan, you would know that there is a Canadian form of rules of the American football. I understand that in Canada, you have three downs opposed to the four in America. If you're unfamiliar with the term, it's of course how many chances your team has to make it over ten yards to keep in possession of the ball or losing possession. The Canadian field length is 110 yards opposed to the 100 yards in America.

Association Football: I am a big supporter of Glasgow Celtic FC in Scotland. Football in Europe to me is like a religion and a way of life. It is part of my individual culture.

When I see hockey mentioned above: The level of roughness in hockey is diverse when it comes to history and geography. Throughout time, and the many regions where the game is played, the brand of hockey is different. Not only in how rough the players are, but in basic rules of the play such as the two line pass rule. That has been removed from the game several years ago which makes the game go faster. Back to roughness: In the Maritime provinces, the junior level of hockey in the 1990s was laden with fi


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: JMB
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 08:33 AM

was laden with one on one, line and bench brawls. At one time, you could have two fights for a player in a game before they were ejected. In the 90s, the violence was fueled by fierce and passonate rivalries and all aspects of the game were unpredictable. You never knew what was going to happen or when, and the crowds were massive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: JMB
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 08:36 AM

I've heard tell in some Asian countries, there is no violence in hockey. It is not tolerated. If you fight your punishment is really stiff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 09:50 AM

13,000,000 people attend Premier League games each year, and there are three more senior leagues and lots of minor leagues below that. I'm puzzled by all this talk of crowd trouble at matches being such a big issue. I can't remember the last time I heard of a major outbreak of violence at a match. You have to go back years. Grounds are far safer places these days, more comfortable, far better organised, mostly with covered stands and far more people seated, and generally with a zero-tolerance ethos in place. If you make big trouble you'll be caught on camera and banned for life. So, basically, come off it. You're way out of date.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 10:04 AM

Steve, my last experience of crowd "trouble" was only 11 or 12 years ago.

In Huddersfield when they play Leeds United the number of Police bussed in from other towns had to be seen to be believed,but they arrived in strength and fully equipped for riots.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 10:20 AM

Trying to remember my social history...

But wasn't there a period in the 80s or early 90s when former ultra violent football hooligan gangs caught on to rave culture
and stated smoking themselves placid and chilled out on skunk...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 10:21 AM

But does it still happen? A big police turnout as a precautionary measure in certain circumstances is sensible. They do that for the Trooping of the Colour too! And just wait 'til you see that royal wedding... I can't tell you the number of times I've been hassled and herded around by dozens of cops whilst attending peaceful demos. It isn't really fair to blame people for something they haven't done, and may not do, just because you see a lot of policemen there. But there has been trouble in the past, so, as I say, taking precautions is the sensible thing to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 10:39 AM

I must say my only experiences with crowd trouble have both been with football crowds in Manchester and they were probably about 10 years or so ago.

There was one occasion in Manchester itself when a Scottish club was playing A Russian club and there were awful fights and brawls. There were also several drunks laying across the pavement on Deansgate in the early afternoon which was very intimidating. I was considering letting 15 stone of Gnome walk across them but thought better of it!

The other couple of times were when I was working in Salford Quays and Man U were playing. From the colours these were Man U fans on both occasions. The first time I was trying to drive from work on normal roads at normal going home time and was forced to stop dues to a large crowd blocking the whole road in front of me. There was a heavy police presence moving them on but my car and the ones in front of and behind me were covered in spit when the crown had passed. Not exactly life threatening but not nice :-(

The second time I was on foot and witnessed a crowd of 'fans' marching and chanting along the side of the quays, throwing anything that was not screwed down into the water. To crown it all, 2 or 3 of them proceeded to urinate in the middle of the road while others cheered.

I do appreciate that these are isolated incidents but it is these that sour the experience for everyone concerned.

Sorry Steve

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Allan Conn
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 12:05 PM

The main sport here in the Scottish Borders is rugby and it has been so for more than a century. I have never heard anyone say there are going to watch 'football' when they are actually meaning 'rugby'. Yes officially it is rugby football but everyone knows when someone is talking about football they are meaning the round ball game.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 12:41 PM

I should have added to my rant that I would never tar all football fans with the same brush as those rogues I came across. The vast majority are ordinary people who have a passion for something they clearly enjoy. To do so would be akin to saying all Muslims are terrorists. Using the same analogy the authorities would have as much difficulty in eliminating those few as Islam has with it's wrong 'uns.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 12:50 PM

We could always compare the proportion of footie fans who spit on cars, etc., with the proportion of dog-owners who let their dogs shit and piss all over the streets (including pissing on my car wheels). If Bude is anything to go by I should think there's no competition...

Not trying to do "he does it too, Miss," but just highlighting the point again that most human endeavours have downsides...

Live and let live!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 02:48 PM

Hi Steve

You are quite right Manchester United was seen to represent the Roman Catholic side of Manchester. Indeed My parents and grand parents were Catholic. They were very strong United followers.

My brother and I were educated in Catholic schools. Salford had a very strong Catholic representation.

I think that United were Catholic before Busby came and he strengthened United's Catholic reliance.

As far as I know there was no bitterness among the Catholics and protestants.

I lived and worked in Scotland and Celtic and Rangers had religious
attachments. I would say that the differences in Scotland were more strong than in England.

I went to watch a couple of Rangers v Celtic games. They were played on New Years day and there was lots of crowd problems.

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 03:03 PM

Hi Dave

You don't know what you missed !!! Some great League was available in the Salford/Swinton area. I can understand you knowing a little about league but not much about Union. I played both. - a couple of years at Leeague and for almost 30 years at Union. I remember towards the end of my career I was made Captain. Union was changing becoming more professional. As we came on the pitch at the start of my last year the Referee read out all the new Laws. I said to him " I have played for 30 years without understanding the old rules so don't expect me to change now.

Cheers
mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 04:45 PM

I wonder MikeL, with what you have said about your upbringing and schooling, whether we may have attended the same Roman Catholic Grammar school in Salford which just happened to be on Weaste Lane?


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 18 - 05:04 PM

Just up the road from the Willows as well!

D.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 03:31 AM

From: Steve Shaw
We could always compare the proportion of footie fans who spit on cars, etc., with the proportion of dog-owners who let their dogs shit and piss all over the streets


The footie fans can, presumably, be expected to know better than the dogs which may or may not be with/controlled by their owners.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 03:34 AM

I do believe that Steve referred to 'the dog owners who let etc.' rather than their dogs. Do you just argue with everything that he says on principle?

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 03:39 AM

No, I don't argue with everything he says on principle.

"Dog owners who let . . ." does not actually mean the dog owners are present, or that they are capable of controlling their dogs to that extent even if they are present.
The dog owners may not be able to control their dogs, but the footie fans should be able to control themselves.
The examples given seem to be of footie fans going out of their way to be obnoxious. The dogs are just answering the call of nature.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 04:04 AM

"Dog owners who let . . ." does not actually mean the dog owners are present

It doesn't matter whether they are present or not. It is still the owners responsibility. Have you seen my comments on different languages going on Mudcat? Maybe you and I are just on different wavelengths.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 05:09 AM

Well next time I'm at a football match, instead of spitting on cars I'll drop my pants and relieve meself in numero deux fashion on the pavement (I'll have the Daily Mail to hand)*. I'm wondering which of the two endeavours would be more likely to get me in the Manchester Evening News (Gawd bless it...)

Just whimsy, Nigel, just whimsy...

*And a small bottle of hand gel, of course. I'm not that uncivilised, you know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 12:47 PM

I am not sure if hand gel would work to clean off what is in the Daily Heil. Bottle of Detol and a wide brush?

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 12:49 PM

A blowtorch to the eyes after reading, whilst cordoned off with a perimeter of biohazard tape...


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 01:10 PM

Wide brush, Dave? Reminds me of the graffiti in the gents in my school, of all places. The sign up in the cubicle said "Please use the brush." Some wag had scribbled underneath "I'd rather use the paper."


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 02:29 PM

Bloomin' spill chucker again...

Wire brush of course.

In one of my workplaces someone had posted a notice saying 'Please do not put paper towels down the toilet.' Some wag had added 'or shit in the bins':-)

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 02:42 PM

Hi Raggy

I think you are referring to De La Salle Salford ??

No I did not attend there though I did take and pass the entry examinations.

I also passed for St. Bede's which was also a Roman Catholic Grammar school.

At the time I lived in Altrincham and as I passed the entrance exam my parents decided that they could not economically afford to send me to Manchester or Salford when we lived in walking distance of Altrincham Grammar School. I was advised not to attend any non- Catholic Classes or attend Morning prayers.

I was followed by my son and now one of my grandsons.

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 02:51 PM

Hi Dave I

Knew the Willows very well. I went on trial for Salford and played three games under the name A N Other. This was because I wasn't a signed on Player. This was quite common in those days.

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 18 - 06:01 PM

Well I played cricket for Thornleigh and we beat St Bede's but got slaughtered by De La Salle. Only the Catholic grammar schools played each other!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 05:56 AM

It was De La Salle indeed MikeL, I can honestly say I hated every second of my time there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 06:08 AM

Sorry about that illiterate sentence "Only the Catholic grammar schools played each other." What I meant was that the Catholic grammar schools only played other Catholuc grammar schools! Well Thornleigh did anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 06:13 AM

Grr...

Anyway, the match of the century at Anfield tomorrow, eh, Mike! I can watch it on my phone with my Christmas present, me cordless Bluetooth headphones, so as not to annoy the football-shunning Mrs Steve. Though she can still hear my oooos at near-misses and me swearing at the ref...


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 06:28 AM

Match of the century tomorrow Steve, United are not playing till Monday and we're only playing Stoke.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 08:17 AM

Who?

:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 04:21 PM

Do you want to have a look at the record books Steve.

Admittedly Liverpool HAVE been a very good and successful team but just remind me when the last time they won a trophy was?

:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 18 - 05:36 PM

Ah, but it's how you play the game. For over twenty years United have concentrated on winning ugly. Their recent history has been one of scruffy 1-0 wins and games so tedious that even their own fans have slow-handclapped them. It's no different this season. Hardly surprising with the Petulant Special Juan at the helm! In contrast, Liverpool play scintillating footie, though with a very vulnerable defence. But Virgil is here to fix that. Watch this space. And this is turning into what I CALL a footie thread! Let's get tribal!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 05:49 AM

"Their recent history has been one of scruffy 1-0 wins" ........ and a cupboard full of trophys!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 05:55 AM

Yebbut football is supposed to be entertainment for the masses!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 06:01 AM

Yebbut bollocks, I number of times I've heard Liverpool fans bemoaning the fact they haven't won a trophy for years beggars belief, and I'm not really a football fan.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 06:54 AM

Yebbut watching many a United game is akin to watching paint dry. And Mourinho has got cracking talent of the likes of Martial and Rashford who he can't seem to get the best out of. Mind you, if I were Klopp I'd be after Lingard with all that dough Liverpool's just amassed from the sale of Coutinho. And what about Pogba? Looks like a bloody waste of money to me!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 07:22 AM

You can have Pogba, I don't rate him at all, £90 million up the Swanee as far as I'm concerned. I don't think Rashford or Lingard will be on the market any time soon.

As for our moaning minnie of a manager I can't abide the man, he's like a petulant spoilt brat, but he does have a knack of winning trophies ............ something Liverpool haven't done for some time, just remind me when was it you last won the Premiership?


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Vic Smith
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 07:35 AM

Can any football fan tell me where I can get a replica shirt for the national team of Mali?
I would also need to have the following letters for the player's name - T - I - M - B - U - K and a hge number 2 to go under them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 07:41 AM

Here you go Vic.


Mali


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 07:44 AM

Try this one instead

Mali


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 11:01 AM

Steve, are you a gambling man. I'll put a pint on city to win.

I reckon it will be 3-1 or 4-1 City !!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 11:09 AM

Ok.. try to convince a non believer there is a team in the West country worth supporting...


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 01:02 PM

Well I'm buggered. Well done to Liverpool. I have to admit I'm surprised by the result and I'll not be able to watch the highlights as I'm creating a 4 course meal for 6 this evening.

Have a good gloat Steve, your team obviously deserve it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 01:10 PM

I know you didn't take up my offer of a bet Steve, but if we ever meet again I will buy you a pint for Liverpools win today.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 01:23 PM

Well what a match. I watched it all live on my phone. It was super-thrilling from start to finish, both sides going for it 100%, no defensive shite, no time-wasting, no parking the bus, amazing Anfield atmosphere. A brilliant match, the icing on the cake being City nearly grabbing it back after being a 4-1 down basket case with ten minutes to go. Even my toe nails are gone. I'm a shadow of me former self after watching that, I tell you. YES!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 01:27 PM

I very craftily avoided high-intensity kitchen activity this evening. I have a piece of brisket slow-cooking in the pot with porcini and veg, and I broke my golden rule by peeling the spuds before the game. I'm no fool.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 06:04 PM

Quite frankly, today's game will do down in the annals as one of the best matches of the Premier League era. The real winners were the fans of both teams who saw a scintillating match played with amazing skill and pace, and with positive sporting spirit. I'll be watching Youtubes of it 'til the day I die!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 18 - 06:05 PM


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 09:36 AM

Hi Steve

First let me congratulate you on your pre-match " match of the Century" Comment.

It was my Wife's birthday yesterday and her sister who is home for Christmas took us out to a local pub for dinner. I was disappointed to hear this as I wanted to watch the match. However all worked out well as they put us in the snug where there is a a TV.

What a match !!! Two teams showing attacking football at it's best. Let me say now that the better team won, although it got a bit hairy near the end.

Raggy I disagree with you comments on Pogba. looking at the prices of players today he is not a poor bargain. Remember he has had a few interuptions which have affected his game but lately he has been running the games.

Steve being Steve of course had to be disingenuous with his remark about about " Watching paint dry". Admitted they are not up to Fergie standard, but they have been much more open and attacking recently, except in a couple of games when he " parked the Bus".

Oh and they are second in the league.

I will be watching them tonight on TV cos No 1 son is unable to get tickets.

Regards

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 12:50 PM

Beautiful piece of purple prose in today's Guardian by Barney Ronay, writing about the match:

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain took the ball deep in Liverpool's half and played a snaking pass inside John Stones. As Stones turned to shield the ball he was bullocked out of the way with malevolent glee by Firmino, a player for whom pressing and closing down is not so much a chore as a hungrily devoured pleasure.

With Stones on his knees Firmino paused, looked up and produced a moment of startling delicacy, from sledgehammer to scalpel in a single shift of feet, lifting a lovingly dinked finish past Ederson as he rushed out. For a moment the ball seemed to hang dreamily under the lights, the air rushing out of the stadium, before falling in a gentle parabola and bouncing in off the post.

Anfield exploded with a huge gurgle of joy.


Same here!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 01:14 PM

PS Steve ........... you didn't remind me of the last time Liverpool won the Premiership


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 01:19 PM

Next season. Dead cert.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 04:31 PM

Been at a wildlife trust meeting this evening. Started to watch the United match at the start of the second half. Gave up after ten minutes. I have paint to watch drying. The atmosphere in the stadium is like that of a rather quiet morgue. Maybe it'll pick up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 05:07 PM

Hi Steve

I just watched the whole match. Think you must have been at another one!!!

Granted the tempo was lower than Liverpools's But there is more than one way to win a game. Man U conceed far fewer goals and let's face it, we win more games. After all that is what the games is all about.

It was a little quiet at times tonight but it was pi**ing down and freezing cold. That kept the crowd quiet.

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 18 - 05:54 PM

I suppose it was always going to be one-sided and that Man U might as well have conserved their energy for stiffer tasks. However, Mike, I'd put as my top priority playing unfailingly positive football aimed at scoring goals and giving thoroughly good entertainment to the millions of faithful supporters. I did see only two fairly short sections of the second half admittedly, but I saw quite a bit of Man U playing the time-ebbing midfield passing game with no ambition to push for goal, and you can hardly claim that Stoke's defence warranted those tactics when Man U have all that fire power. Bloody annoying.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 06:24 AM

Hi Raggy

" You can have Pogba, I don't rate him at all, £90 million up the Swanee as far as I'm concerned"

Just a little stat to show Pogba's worth to United.

Man U have not lost when Pogba has played They have not lost the last 35 times when Pogba has played.

Last night he completely dominated the game laying on the goals and made many fantastic long ball passes.

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 06:32 AM

Acknowledged MikeL, as I stated earlier I'm not really a football fan, barely an armchair fan if the truth be known.

I just find that Pogba often seems disinterested in games, comes to life for a few minutes, seems disinterested again. He doesn't seem to work as hard as the other players more often than not.

I will defer to the greater knowledge of others.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 06:50 AM

He did earn his keep last night, I must admit!

Good luck if you get Sanchez, Mike. But, to me, a complete prima donna twat managing a complete prima donna twat doesn't look like a promising combination to me... :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 06:52 AM

To many to mes there to me


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 06:54 AM

(Oh God, Stevie boy, don't mess with your too toos...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 10:33 AM

New manager for Wales


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 11:17 AM

Can't think he's ready for that. I want to be wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 01:26 PM

We used to see Giggsy's family cars parked at Tesco's in Walkden. Apropos of nothing at all.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 02:23 PM

I wish him well, apart from when they play England or Ireland, but he has little experience. I'm not sure that despite his wide knowledge of the game he has what it takes, at the moment, to be an international manager.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 02:38 PM

hi Raggy

I understand your position on this. Pogba is a very unorthodox player.

He does at times appear to disappear for short spells. I think that some of it is because he has not been completely fit since his injury.

Just as he was getting fitter he got a ban for what I think was unfortunate.

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 02:47 PM

Hi Steve

There is no doubt about Sancez's ability. I am concerned about his affect on his fellow players and the rest of the club.

Maybe Maurinho with his wide experience of dealing with world class players will be able to deal with him.

Besides it's not certain that he will come. United are all getting pi**sed off with his antics.

Cheers Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 16 Jan 18 - 02:54 PM

Hi Re Giggsy.

I think he will be OK. He has had a lot of football experience in various roles. His playing record stands up for itself and he has had some experience as Assistant Manager Under Van Gaal and some more when he was a caretaker when Fergie left.

There is talk that Paul Scholes will be part of his assistance team.

I hope he does well but he will have a difficult task.

Cheer

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 04:55 PM

Oi, bloody Nora! Norwich screw Chelsea in the last seconds of added time! Extra time to come! Go, Delia!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 18 - 05:55 PM

Ah, sod it. Chelsea win on a penalty shootout after having two players rightly sent off. That'll teach these big clubs that it's counterproductive to field weakened teams against what they mistakenly see as lesser opposition. Kudos, Canaries!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jan 18 - 03:51 AM

16/01/18 Cardiff City secure a Home match (28/01/18) against Manchester City, following an away win 4:1 over Mansfield (after only managing a draw at home)


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Jan 18 - 04:28 AM

We were on the edge of our seats (well, the sofa) all evening, and when Jamal Lewis scored nearly at full time, we could hear Ruth-over-the-road and her husband yelling in their front room! The Canaries played very well, solidly and steadily. But the behaviour of two of the Chelsea players (sent off) was awful. And the ref didn't appear to have a full grip on the match at all.
My husband was doing an African dance when Lewis scored. But penalties are a disappointing way to settle a match aren't they?


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jan 18 - 05:50 AM

I thought the ref did quite well in the face of Chelsea's antics. The reds for Pedro and Morata were well deserved. I've watched that alleged Willian penalty about twenty times now and I think the ref was right not to give it. To me, Willian seemed to be trailing a leg in order to be deliberately caught, and he went down way too easily. Willian is a player I hugely admire but it looked to me like he was fishing for a penalty. Had it been given it would have been a soft one. Had that been Messi, Mane or Salah in the box they would have gone through hell and high water to stay on their feet and go for goal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Jan 18 - 01:56 PM

Everyone in our village was talking about the match this morning.
Poor little old Ellen (a tiny, very, very old lady) was miserable. She used to go to all their matches, home and away. Now she listens on Radio Norfolk, and if the Canaries win, she has a small glass of sherry. No tipple for her last night...

In spite of the strong winds and cold temperature, my husband wore his Norwich City football strip down to the village shop when he went out to get my paper. He was frozen when he got back, but he said he wanted to show solidarity!
(But the fickle thing has every football strip known to man, and wears them indiscriminately)


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Jan 18 - 02:42 PM

Hi

I watched the match and thought it an excellent and exciting game.

Norwich gave Chelsea a hug shock and in my opinion I thought that Norwich was the better side in which they were very organised at the back and extremely dangerous on the breaks.

I agreed with the penalty decisions. Norwich were unlucky when they struck the post and fully deserved the excellent late goal.

Pity about the penalty. I agree that it is not a good way to decide a match.....but I can't think of a better way.

I n rugby we tried a few ways to get a decider in the few games that ended in a draw. We had a " shootout" in that we played on until one side scored. Don't think this would work for football as it would become difficult to score as the teams packed their defences.

Well done Norwich.

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 06:06 PM

Chelsea are going through a very sterile patch at the moment, very reminiscent of Liverpool this time last year - up to Christmas 2016 I thought the reds were going to win the league, then it all went pear-shaped. I like watching Chelsea, despite their Chelski tarnish. I'm disappointed with Conte this season. He needs to get a bit more discipline into his players. Would you keep picking divers? On top of that, he comes from my very favourite Italian town, Lecce in Puglia. Definitely go to Lecce before you die. The Florence of the South!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 12:53 PM

Anyway, Swansea-Liverpool tonight. I can watch it on Sky on me phone. A victory for the lads would put clear blue water between them and Spurs and Arsenal and strengthen their place in the top four. Don't see why not...

Don't expect bloody brexit posts between eight and ten.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 01:29 PM

On paper Liverpool should walk this one. 4-0 or 5-0 should be an achievable score. Watch Swansea confound the issue !!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 03:35 PM

two not very good sides, if they learned to pass the ball well. it might be worth watching


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 04:21 PM

dear oh dear, what a turn up


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 04:55 PM

Ooops .......................


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 18 - 05:04 PM

The Swans got a soft goal then parked the bus. In their position I can't blame 'em, but it made for a bloody poor watch. There must have been about six chances that Liverpool would normally have put away. I must say, their goalie was brilliant. Ho hum.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 04:44 AM

liverpool lost and played in a mediocre manner if they could learn to pass more succesfully they might do better


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 05:15 AM

Their passing was under par last night both in pace and accuracy. If Liverpool haven't bagged a goal in the first ten minutes I start to worry. They've got to start at blistering pace, bag a goal or two and make the other team come out and take risks and subject themselves to Liverpool's counters, which are as dangerous as anybody's. They let the Swans get their feet under the table last night, get a soft goal then park the bus. I hate that kind football as it isn't giving the fans what they deserve, very negative, but with Swansea wallowing at the bottom and desperately needing the points (and the multimillions that staying up would mean), I can't blame them. That's capitalism for you!

Don't get me started on the twat Sanchez. Half a million a week? A bloody disgrace.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 06:27 AM

Hi Steve

I watched the match last night. Embarrassing to lose to the bottom club.

Your comments on the match pretty much agree with what I saw. Liverpool don't appear to have a Plan B.

I went to Turf Moor last Saturday when Man U Played Burnley, There was a good example of this there. United were completely wasting their time trying to beat the Burnley defensive tactics. So in the second half they pulled back and "Parked the Bus"" and scored with a breakaway goal. Call it ugly if you wish but they won a difficult match.

" Don't get me started on the twat Sanchez. Half a million a week? A bloody disgrace." Way of the Word today. It is an eye-watering amount but if he turns out to be the winner we think he is, it will pay for itself. I would then be a good investment.

I don't think it will enable them to catch City but next year we hope the the League will not be quite so one-sided.

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 07:33 AM

He's a bit of a sulk, though, isn't he, Mike? You're really expecting a lot...

Packing your defence all night is a very negative tactic and is definitely against the sporting spirit. Several teams, including Chelsea, thwarted even Barcelona at their peak with that tactic, the Barca of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. Jayz, it must be a damn good tactic if even that lot can't get through. It's a time-honoured tactic used by weaker teams in away legs. Of course, if you're a Chelsea, you always have the pace and talent to mount sudden counter-attacks when your opponent starts to get flustered with the tactic and take risks, as they did to deprive Liverpool of the title a couple of seasons ago. But Swansea don't have that. Once they'd bagged that goal they hardly ever even vaguely threatened. It was very tedious watching. They were time-wasting at throw-ins and one of their players walked off painfully slowly to waste time when he was subbed. Unless you're injured, you should be carded unless you jog off. Liverpool definitely lacked edge last night but we watched a game that no-one (bar the Swansea fans), including thousands of neutrals, could have been happy with.

And you can blame Burnley for using the tactic, but the past master is Jose!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 07:36 AM

Sorry, Mike, I see that I slightly misread your remarks on the Turf Moor match!

Always thought that t'Turf was a cold 'ole...


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 23 Jan 18 - 02:41 PM

Hi Steve

" Always thought that t'Turf was a cold 'ole. "

I t certainly was the other night!! Cold wind blowing across the pitch right into the stand. Then as the wind eased a cold drizzly fog swamped the ground. United were playing in Grey strip. Difficult to see them on the far side.

The point I was trying to make about Maurinho is that he is a good tactician and can change the tactics during the game to get a result.

Remember that they have scored almost as many goals as Liverpool and conceded far fewer. And they are still the most watched team in British football!!!!!!!!.

Now of to 't pub to watch City.


Cheers Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Jan 18 - 01:09 PM

arsenal chelsea who is going to win this?


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 25 Jan 18 - 02:46 PM

Hi

Arsenal won 2-1 in a very closely contested game.

Arsenal will now meet Manchester City a Wembley.

Chelsea manager Conte complaining bitterly about how Chelsea can't contest top teams because they can't buy top players.

He wasn't complaining previously when Chelsea out price every team in tha Premier League.

Cheers

MikeL2


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 01:14 PM

Hi Steve - watched Liverpool v West Brom last night.
Liverpool were very poor IMHO - especially the defence.
These games are always tricky for the top teams. As the opponents have nothing to lose. Some strange decisions especially when the use of the new filmed action was used.

Both managers criticised it.   

Man United managed to win at a canter at Yeovil. Sanchez looked good in his first game. I am expecting something more from United when he plays with the full team - we had 10 changes from the usual side.

A consolation for Liverpool will be that they will able to concentrate more on their League position.

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Jan 18 - 04:23 PM

WBA Steve, WBA ................

I bet you have nightmares !!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 30 Jan 18 - 02:31 PM

Hi

just going to sit down and watch Liverpool v Huddersfield.

Huddersfield are a difficult team to play.....as Man United found out some weeks ago when they beat us at Huddersfield.

Their Manager is an ex colleague and friend of Liverpool Manager Jurgen Clopp.

I will be interested in this game because we play Huddersfield shortly in the League, and we could also play them again if the beat Birmingham
in the replay of the recent draw.

Of course this will not be of any interest to Steve as they are no longer in this Competition.

I see Clopp is starting to moan about referees - he complained about how much ( little) the ref awarded for injury time in their recent game.

Of course we at Old Trafford are "experts" at this thanks to Alec Ferguson.

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jan 18 - 05:54 PM

Liverpool did the same thing last season, though a couple of weeks earlier. It'll be a test of Klopp's mettle to get this quickly turned around. Giving Huddersfield a whack isn't a bad start. Good to see Liverpool increasing the distance from Arsenal. Swansea are becoming giant-killers!

Dunno whether refs add time on for these lengthy delays due to reviewing decisions. It stops the flow of what should be a flowing game, I know that much.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 01 Feb 18 - 09:09 AM

Hi Steve

Saw the Liverpool v Huddersfield game. Not a classic but " The Pool" got a deserved win. Huddersfield IMHO were very poor but you have to beat what-ever is against you.

I hope Huddersfield play as badly on Saturday when they play Man United. Mind you after last night's performance against Spurs United got blown away. I have not seen such a poor performance by United since Moyes went. We were lucky to get none.!!! Our defence that had gone for over six hours without conceding a goal and then we let one in after only 10 seconds!! Our performance was erratic and Spurs could and should have scored five or six." 'arry Kane "didn't have his shooting boots on.

There was a small consolation in that Chelsea got blasted 3-0 at home.
It's going to be interesting in the top six.

Cheers Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 18 - 09:13 AM

Spurs are now snapping at the heels of Liverpool and Chelsea thanks to your lot, Mike!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 01 Feb 18 - 10:14 AM

hi Steve

Sorry !!!! I wanted to help you out. Still that's life.!!!

I see you have spurs this week-end ?? Hope you help us.!!!!

To Raggy - with Pogba's performance last night it wasn't worth five Million never mind 85. He just wasn't in the game. Mourinho subbed him
and he (pogba) didn't look happy.

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 18 - 03:36 PM

I fancy Liverpool to give Spurs a clumping at Anfield, but they'd better have a bloody good plan for Kane and Eriksen. They're lethal. It could be a goal-fest, as neither team seems to understand the concept of parking the bus!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 02 Feb 18 - 09:21 AM

Hi Steve

I think it will be a wide open game and great to watch. I fancy a draw 2-2 I don't think Kane will miss chances like he did.

We didn't park the bus, more like a motor bike. We did create some chances but did take them. I think the second goal killed us. They were disorganised and lacking drive and initiative.

Good luck I will be watching.

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 18 - 07:27 PM

A routine, boring win for United. But the brave lads of Burnley, the archetypal hairy-arses, the team of me boyhood, never gave up against City. I thought Pep's tribute was wonderful:

Pep Guardiola has described Burnley as "the most British of teams" following the Clarets' 1-1 draw with Manchester City at Turf Moor on Saturday.

"Of course we are frustrated in terms of the result but the performance was outstanding against a Burnley side who are the most British of teams in terms of long balls and the way they play," Guardiola told Sky Sports News.

"But football is about goals. We needed to score the second, third and fourth when we had the chance. When you arrive in the last 15 minutes at Burnley 1-0, this is what can happen. I'm sad for the players because we played so well.

"What they have done this season, Burnley, is amazing. We controlled the game, but when we arrived in the last minutes at 1-0, there is danger."


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 Feb 18 - 10:01 AM

Hi Steve

"A routine, boring win for United". I don't believe it was Man U's fault. And it wasn't boring for most of the crowd.

I don't think that there were any buses left in Huddersfield......they were all parked on the Huddersfield goal line.

It takes two teams to make a good game. Huddersfield did not want to play. Instead they decided to kick United's players all over the pitch....especially Sanchez. He was a marked man.....literally. They didn't have even one attempt on goal. If they continue to play like this they will go down.

The Ref had a poor game in allowing this to go unpunished.Especially one vicious foul on a young lad....and in the penalty area too.


Good luck for this afternoon, I will be watching,

THIS SHOULD BE A GREAT GAME.

Cheers Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 18 - 02:12 PM

Talk about a game of two halves. Just for once the cliche applies. Kane missing that first penalty was poetic justice. He dived. The second one was justified. It was all Liverpool in the first half. They were deadly except for the finish. But they went home at half-time. I do like Spurs though and I can't complain at honours even! Three cracking goals and a lot of edge-of-seat stuff. Great!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 09:17 AM

hi Steve

I agree with your view of the game. Great to watch. In the end a draw was a fair result even though how it happened was contraversial.

I have put Clopp down on the 100 meters in the next Olympics. He didn't half move down that touchline when Liverpool scored their second.

My forecast of the score was dead on.   !!!

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 10:31 AM

Have had another look/think about that second penalty in the cold light of YouTube. It shouldn't have been given. Lamela was fishing for it, running into Virgil's path. If there was any contact at all it was minimal and Virgil was trying to avoid it, and Lamela made a meal of it. Seems like Pochettino may have a second career as an Olympic diving coach, what with Kane, Alli and Lamela. No wonder he praised the officials for making perfect decisions. Jon Moss was very soft on Spurs in the first half too. His behaviour seemed quite unprofessional. And he didn't seem to understand the offside rule either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 02:51 PM

Hi Steve

I agree that Lamela was looking for a penalty. But Virgil has been around long enough to spot this. I recorded the game and have viewed the incident in very slow motion. IMHO there is no doubt that he touched Lamela but I don't know what kind of touch makes the difference between being a penalty or not. Most players know about this and try to avoid any kind of contact in the area.

An example of the confusion is shown if you look at United's game against Huddersfield when a young player was completely flattened as he was charged by a defender the back in the area. He was felled by a two footed charge off the ground; This wasn't so much of tackle as an assault. No penalty was given. It strikes me that even the the referees don't know.

As for diving, it is cheating and the refs must get a grip of it. It is rife; most players do it.

It was never done before the European Leagues. These brought players of many different nationalities, many of whom were divers.

I can only recall one British player who dived - that was Franni Lee of Man City.

I think that diving should be an immediate red card not just a yellow and a kind word from the ref.

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 06:22 PM

Nah then, Mike, surely you remember one of the great moments in all footie, the punch-up between Franny and Bite-Yer-Legs. Those were the days when men were men and so were half the women. We're in prima donna territory these days. When you dived in those days on those pitches you'd go in at half-time with five pounds of mud sticking to your front and another pound wrapped round the family jewels. I admit that Liverpool had the diver among divers, bite-yer-ear-off Suarez (come back, Luis, all is forgiven!), and Stevie wasn't exactly Mr Innocent. I agree. Send the bugger off, as long as you're sure. Alli was blatant, Kane not quite 100%. Red, yellow. The draw was the ultimate fair result, but who wants fair in footie!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Feb 18 - 06:26 PM

But Chelski stuffed! Come on, Mike, what's not to like!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 02:38 PM

Hi Steve

" Those were the days my friend ............."

Jackie Charlton and Norman Hunter.....we had nNobbie Stiles.

I play in a Sunday League ( after playing Rugby On the Saturday.)

I had been kicked on the knee and had a couple of stitches in a cut.
Before the game Nobbie came to watch. He saw my bandaged knee. He told me not to wear the bandage over the wound but to put it on the other leg !!! Said the buggers will go for that one and leave the other alone. Worked too.

Liverpool's Tommy Smith was a great player " with a cutting edge".

There were many "kickers " in those days,

Yes Chelsea seem to be on an cliff-hanging edge. Will they go.....I hope so. Sure you will too.

Cheers Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Feb 18 - 07:11 PM

And this is the one day in the calendar on which even Liverpool supporters stop hating Manchester United. I salute you, Babes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 18 - 06:09 PM

Anyway, Mike, cheese aside, it's Spurs-Arsenal tomorrow dinner time and it's on BT Sport. A boring draw would suit Liverpool just fine. Then Liverpool need three points against the Saints on Sunday, Sky Sport. That'll go a very long way...

Mrs Steve buys me my five quid a month sub to Sky Sports Mobile and (currently) my £3.50 a month sub to BT Sport Mobile for me joint birthday and Christmas pressies. So I can watch all the big Premier League games live and every Champions League game! Keeps me off the street...


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 10:10 AM

Sod it. The Spurs result was the worst outcome for Liverpool. They need a big win tomorrow. Goal diff could be a big factor this season. The top few are all very close in that regard.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 Feb 18 - 10:10 AM

Hi Steve

Just finished watching Spurs v Arsenal. Quite a good open game to watch. I think Spurs just about deserved their 1-0 win. Like you I wanted a draw and if Lacasette (sic) hadn't missed a complete sitter right at the end.

Harry Kane scored his usual goal and Spurs created several more chances.

Arsenal looked wide open a the back and in my opinion were lucky to get away so lightly.

I will be watching City later on. Leicester are a team that could cause a surprise. (fingers crossed ).

I watch on BT Sport and Sky Sport on my TV.

My son has given me a dongle that streams life sports, but I haven't needed to use it yet. In truth I have my doubts about it.

I will be watching Both United and Liverpool tomorrow.

Just watching Ireland massacre Italy......I know there is a separate thread but I want to get something done and don't have the time

Cheers

Mike

Ps Cheese and wine went down well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Feb 18 - 08:39 PM

Well, Mike, today went well! Liverpool win at a canter, after having to travel south today instead of last night due to a plane glitch. Man U lost their way against a hearty and passionate hairy-arse team, and if things carry on this way it'll be Liverpool second.

Now for Porto. Roll on Wednesday!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 11 Feb 18 - 11:16 PM

I have taken a liking to football or as we Yankees say soccer.. My team liverpool.. Oh yeah


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 11 Feb 18 - 11:21 PM

Why the hell can't they wrap up emre can contract.. Last I heard it still was open ugh


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 10:03 AM

I know. The trouble is I think he wants to go to Juventus. And unless he does a deal with Liverpool he can go on a free transfer at the end of the season. If Juve don't have to pay for him they can use the money saved to pay him big money. He's playing hard to get. He must be on good money at Liverpool and he gets picked regularly so you might have thought he'd be happy. I reckon it's about money, not football. Sign of the times.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 02:29 PM

Hi Dan

Long time no hear eh. Hope you are well.

I love you Dan but Liverpool !!!!! I am Manchester United so that makes us enemies right away....lol.

I t is going to get fierce as we are 2nd in the League and Liverpool are third.

At the moment Liverpool are playing better than us but we will get going again.

Great to hear from you again old buddy

Kind regards from this side of the pond.

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 02:50 PM

Hi Steve

I thought I might see you after yesterday.s games.

You are quite in order to be laughing ( as you no doubt you are.)

I watched both games and I have say that Liverpool
are looking very very much like a danger to us.

We were pathetic. There did not seem to be any organisation at all. This is unlike Mourinnho teams. The defence was all over the place - strange as we have the second best defensive record in the league.

The centre backs played as though they had never met; these guys are England Internationals though it is difficult to see how.

Especially Smalling who was lucky to get away with a penalty and then for some mad reason, he performs the most obvious dive I have ever seen. It was like a pig falling of a ladder. And to rub in the salt Newcastle scored from the resulting free kick.

Having said all that we managed to miss at least 4 " dollies" . The Newcastle keeper play out of his skin preventing us scoring. It was his first game !!!

Looks like being a rare fight for the top places. We can't play that bad again..........can we.

Regards

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 03:53 PM

Lol good one Mike but I gotta go with the liverpool team


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Feb 18 - 05:48 PM

You are a wise man of exquisite good taste, Dan!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 13 Feb 18 - 02:26 PM

Hi Dan

When you gotta go you gotta go. But Liverpool..???

Seriously I am pleased to hear that you are interested in our game and in supporting Liverpool you have chosen well.

Regards Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Feb 18 - 03:52 PM

Maybe Dan has chosen well MikeL but for crying out loud Steve is a Mancunian, supporting Liverpool for him is tantamount to high treason.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 18 - 04:53 PM

I ask you, Raggytash, is Radcliffe "Mancunian?"

Damned fine show from Spurs tonight, wot I have just finished watching. I thought they were going to be toast after that first ten minutes. Instead, they have two away goals against Juve. What's not to like!

Now for Porto tomorrow night...


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 06:23 AM

Hi Raggy

Steve is anything he feels he wants to be .....lol When I was young Radcliffe was certainly in Manchester,....now I have no Idea where it is; but it sure as hell is not in Liverpool.

I think Steve may be like my Sister -in-law. She supports Liverpool just to be able to argue with us....!!!

I will be watching Liverpool tonight. and what's more I will be shouting for them. Last night I was shouting for Man City. I want all English teams to do well in Europe.

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 01:35 PM

I left Radcliffe when I was 18, though my mum and dad are both soldiering on up there, miraculously! I hardly ever went to Manchester, except to catch a bus from Victoria or a train from Piccadilly, and I wouldn't be able to find my way round the place at all. We did all our shopping in Bury or Bolton and I went to school in Bolton, at Thornleigh. I don't associate myself with Manchester at all. I'm freelance!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 04:53 PM

I will not gloat. Porto 0 Liverpool 5.


Sod it.


GloatgloatgloatgloatgloatgloatgloatgloatGLOATGLOATBLOODYGLOAT...


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 09:11 PM

Dammit, it weren't Victoria, were it. That's where the metro goes to from Bury. It were Chorlton Street where t'buses to London went from. Tsk.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 10:32 PM

Yup sorry but I did love that liverpool score
5 is a good number :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 14 Feb 18 - 10:44 PM

Mo has a cannon for a foot.. He has 30 or so goals already this season.. Amazing


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 11:08 AM

Hi Steve

Congrats on fine win. Mo must be one of the best signings ever. This guy sniffs out chances and usually takes them. Also creates goals as well. He possesses that amazing change of pace - his speed off the mark makes it very difficult to stop him.

Sane had a great game too.

I watched the game and to be honest it was a one way game which takes away the interest. But Hey Liverpool can only play what is put against them.

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 03:25 PM

What is your thoughts on the potential signing of Alisson by liverpool.. That is one hell of a lot of money... He is great but to me it breaks the bank. What will our star players want and can we keep them if they pay that price


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Feb 18 - 04:24 PM

I have to concede that Liverpool were magnificent last night, all credit to them for a wonderful display.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 08:07 AM

Mignolet's days are numbered. Karius has stepped up to the plate but Klopp wants to strengthen all aspects of the back end, if you take my meaning. Virgil is looking commanding but he isn't yet up to speed, either in terms of fitting the Klopp philosophy or getting over his spate of injuries, but I reckon he's going to be the darling of Anfield (one of!) As for Alisson, I don't think Liverpool need to be spending £70 million on a goalkeeper just now and I don't think Klopp does either. The trouble is that Roma felt stung by giving Salah to Liverpool for what turned out to be a bargain-basement price and they won't be inclined to repeat that exercise with Alisson.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 09:39 AM

Steve.. I agree completely


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 09:46 AM

Well it's the FA Cup 5th round this weekend, Manchester United away to Huddersfield .............. who are Liverpool playing?


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 18 - 04:47 PM

Sounds boring...


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 05:10 AM

Lukaku's display yesterday against Huddersfield was superb, apart from his two goals he worked tirelessly for the team.

This, I believe, sets him apart from Pogba who I consider to be lazy, indolent and uninterested in the outcome of matches.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 06:30 AM

Hi Raggy

I agree with your comments. This was not a boring game !!! After Lucacu's first goal after only 3 minutes it was a game of 2 halves it was end to end with Huddersfield looking dangerous and had a couple o good chances that they did not take. Mouinho's plan was obviously to let Huddersfield come to them and hit them on the counter-attack. It worked well and in the second half after Lucacu's excellent second goal, assisted by a brilliant run and pass by Sanchez they were on top and stayed that way. Job Done.

Lots of time spent over Mata's "Goal" that turned out after 8.5 minutes being taken for VAR to decide. to have been offside. This must be improved.

As for Pogba, You are right he is not delivering. I think the latest issues are since Sanchez joined. Pogba is now not " top Boy" and doesn't like it. There is no doubt he his a great player but only on his terms. Alex Ferguson got rid of him because "of his attitude" and in the current situation if Fergie was there I have no doubt Pogba would be told to shut up and get on with it. Or he would be up the road. Fergie also had some problems with David Beckham and he sat him on the bench for several matches. He also cleared out Jap Stamm and Roy Keane two of his best players.

It will be interesting to watch how Mourinho deals with it. No Man is bigger than the team.

Lots not to be bored about Steve.....LoL


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 07:42 AM

Except that United should have won 8-0.

The goal should have been given. Any ref/linesperson giving that without VAR would have attracted no comment whatsoever. The attacker must always have the benefit of the doubt in very close calls. They'll be telling us next that someone or other wouldn't have been offside if only he'd trimmed his nose hair before the game. If we really must have this kind of tech we should reserve it for judging whether the ball has gone over the line or not. And not a wavy line either! Yes there's big money in the game and a wrong offside call can cost a club millions. I don't give a monkeys. Football is a flowing game played and refereed by human beings. That's the way it should stay.

I'd like to see a clampdown on players stealing ten yards or more at throw-ins. I'd also like to see a five-second limit on how long the thrower can hold the ball. Award the throw to the other side. And the time limit on goalkeepers is routinely not observed. Goalies are allowed to hold the ball, including bouncing it, etc., for six seconds only and are allowed to take only four steps. I'd like to see that penalised by the award of a corner kick. We're getting good on unsporting behaviour such as diving. Time-wasting, just as unsporting, is no longer the ploy it used to be but there is still scope to make the game even better at what it should be, free-flowing and a celebration of skill and tactics. One more thing. No subs allowed after the 80th minute except for an injury after which the victim clearly can't carry on (to not include play-actors - ref's call). There isn't a single reason on earth for making multiple subs during added time. Bloody annoying and bloody unsporting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 07:56 AM

The VAR in Rugby Union is normally far quicker than the debacle at Huddersfield yesterday, it may possibly take time for Football to get up to speed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 09:41 AM

Hi Raggy

Or they could use the Rugby League method which is fast and shows the spectators what the cameras are seeing so they are not hanging in total
ignorance of what is going on.

cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 09:52 AM

Hi Steve

Thanks for your thoughts on improving the game. I agree with most of your comments. ( but not the 8-0 one !!!)

I know that football is a contact sport but we should cut all the arm wrestling and shirt pulling and bring back the shoulder to shoulder limitation on contact. Late I see more rugby tackles than at Twickenham.

Cheers

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 10:34 AM

Agreed. They are already illegal, as with goalkeepers' and throw-in transgressions. I suppose there's a balance between keeping the rules and keeping the game moving and that *minor* transgressions can be overlooked as long as the ref is seen to be balancing things out over the game as a whole. In the Liverpool-Spurs game I saw three blatant fouls on Liverpool players within a few minutes of each other go unpunished in the first half (so did Klopp, who commented on them). Then the ref gives Spurs two soft penalties, arguably not penalties at all. Yeah, right...


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 11:53 AM

We were outside Carrow Road stadium in Norwich walking across to the supermarket there, when an enormous ROAR went up. Tim Klose (Norwich City) had equalised against Ipswich Town in the last few seconds of extra time! Final score 1 - 1.

We smiled because scores of Police attended, and they had nothing to do, so many of them came into the supermarket to get a snack. Nice to see all the fans coming out calmly (obviously the odd taunts etc, but nothing dire) and with no trouble, in spite of these two teams being old enemies. I think the Police were bored stiff, but that's better than fights.
My husband was sad, as he'd chosen to wear his thick jacket not his Norwich City strip, but at least he was sporting his woolly Norwich City hat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: olddude
Date: 18 Feb 18 - 11:57 PM

I have seen more cheap shots and shirt pulling this year by every team without penalty.. No great at all they got to fix it


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 04:49 PM

Eh up!!!!

Wigan beat Manchester City, what a result !!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Feb 18 - 07:07 PM

Delph played dirty in the first half. I know that that shouldn't influence the giving of a straight red but in any case I though that the tackle richly deserved it. The ref's indecision was a very disturbing moment. He should explain himself really. Wigan gave us the best display of serial shot-blocking I've ever seen towards the end. Spectacular! Do City need a sheikh-up?


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Subject: RE: BS: Football (not the U.S. kind)
From: MikeL2
Date: 21 Feb 18 - 06:46 AM

Hi

The games this week have been crackers . Wigan v Man City kept me entertained right through the game. I thought the sending off correct. I think the ref changed from Yellow to Red because of remarks and behaviour by City players. But the ref needs to confirm this. When Will Grigg scored I nearly knocked my pint over. Great game and result for football.

Watched Chelsea v Barcelona - Again a good match to watch. Barcelona were lucky when the Chelsea defence made a mistake letting in Messie to score. Otherwise Messie was quiet. That away goal may end up priceless for Barcelona.

Booked my seat for United's game tonight with Seville. Hope this keeps up the standard of the earlier games.

Cheers

Mike


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